What Bike To Buy
Dave Zale
dont know much about bikes. Most days I am going to ride 4 miles (I
know that is very short but with an 5-10 lb. backpack and I need to
get there preety fast). 2 miles each way from college to my house.
I am also thinking of joining an bike group so I guess it shouldnt
just be for short rides. I can only spend around 800 dollars on it, so
nothing to fancy. I guess I just need an fast, easy ride.
It doesn't need to fold up, it is going to be locked up with an very
hard to cut lock, and it cannot be lock picked. Only on days that it
is pleasant out, not like in the rain. Sunlight will only wear the
paint down right?
Im sorry for jumbling this up a bit, I think I have had a little to
much caffine tonight.
Ill try to summarize this up a bit. I need a bike for traveling to
college and back, I might join a bike group, it needs to be fast and
easy to ride, and cant be much more than 800$. Please refer me to some
bikes that would fit this description.
Jacobe Hazzard
$800 should get you a fairly decent entry level bike. My advice is to check
out a few local bike shops. They can explain to you the differences between
road, mountain and hybrid bikes, and get you set up on a bike that fits you
properly and suits your needs.
Go to a few stores and check out the selection, but also pay attention to
how helpful and knowleadgeable the staff are. Ask a lot of questions. They
are really key to your ending up with a bike you'll be happy with, and
should be able to help you out with any issues that pop up after you've
bought the bike. As others have said, don't think of it as buying a bike,
think of it as buying a bike shop.
Avoid department store bargain bikes like the plague.
jacobe
HardwareLust
"Dave Zale" <davi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2a93d093.04011...@posting.google.com...
>
> Ill try to summarize this up a bit. I need a bike for traveling to
> college and back, I might join a bike group, it needs to be fast and
> easy to ride, and cant be much more than 800$. Please refer me to some
> bikes that would fit this description.
OK! $800 can buy you any number of fine entry or even intermediate level
bicycles. As was already mentioned, PLEASE, do not buy your bike at a
department store or toy store. If your town or city still has one, go to a
real bike shop. Trust me, your money will be much better spent. The ideal
situation would be that you live somewhere where there is more than one shop
so you can visit them all and go with the one that makes you the most
comfortable.
Now, exactly what type of riding are you talking about when you say "join a
bike group"? I'm assuming from your description that the trip back and
forth to college is strictly on pavement? As long as you are planning on
riding on paved (or concreted) areas only, then that makes the
recommendation easier.
Carl Fogel
Dear Dave,
I pedalled back and forth about two miles daily
from home to junior high school for several years
on a five-speed Schwinn.
Despite the typical horrified reaction here on
rec.bicycles.tech, you'll probably do fine with
a brand-new bike from WalMart or a used bike and
save hundreds of dollars--which you can use to
repair or replace the cheap bike if something
breaks.
Your speed will be about the same. Every now and
then, a friend visits and we take a leisurely
ride out my usual route. Horrors, the six miles
to the dam took twenty-four minutes instead of
eighteen!
As for theft, a cheaper bike is less of a loss
and possibly less of a temptation. And there's
the happy feeling that you're riding something
that cost less than other people pay for a pair
of pedals.
Garage sales, local bike shops, and want ads
should be able to provide you a different
bike for every day of the week for $800.
Last winter, I gave a neighbor's son similar
advice, explaining that I ride a used Schwinn
obtained for under $250 on eBay, including
shipping. When the poor kid got a word in
edgewise, he explained that he was thinking
more along the lines of a $1500 "entry-level"
bike. His mother has confided since then that
he doesn't use it much.
Good luck,
Carl Fogel
Dave Zale
store but my friend had a bad expierence with that. He really didn't
know much about bikes and asked a person. In the end, due to a lack of
knowledge of a new worker, he got ripped off. Can you just recomend
some bikes or tell me what you guys have and how you like them?
Jacobe Hazzard
That's why you gotta visit more than one store, and make sure the employees
answer all your questions to your satisfaction, and can justify their
recommendations. If the employee at the shop is talking down to you, or
rushing you, or glossing over your questions, let them know and then walk
out.
As another poster points out, there are a lot of inexpensive bikes out there
that will satisfy your needs, and probably your speed will be about the same
on all of them. The most important thing is fit. You need a bike that fits
well. You need a bike shop that will sell you the right size frame, and
adjust the handlebars and saddle properly for your body, and continue to
make adjustments after purchase if necessary. You need to test ride as many
bikes as you can. You need advice you can't really get from the internet.
And yeah, don't be in a hurry to spend the whole $800, you could easily
spend half that and be very happy with your bike.
If you're riding on the road, you will want either a road bike or a mountain
bike, or something in between. This coveres just about every bike made. The
only thing you can rule out for certain is full-suspension or BMX type bikes
(and some people even like to ride fill suspension bikes in the city). Maybe
if you visit some shops and them come back here with a list of bikes you're
considering we can be more helpful.
english teacher
Even better than bike advice:
Walk the two miles each way. It's just as healthy, and really won't take
that long. Save your $800 and use the money to double up on the English
composition courses. That post is absolutely tortuous to read! Standards
are pretty low on USENET, but for the love of God man, we learn the
difference between "a" and "an" as children! The occasional apostrophe
wouldn't hurt either--- here's a few you can borrow : ''''''''''''''''''''.
It's obvious to me that you are a native speaker....just not a native
writer.
We'll move on to sentence structure tomorrow.
Sorry, but this one got to me.
BTW: Mr Fogel speaks much truth
The Prof.
Dave Z
really fast when it's something like this, and I was up kinda late last night
from when I normally go to sleep. Bah! You bring back the memories of my mom
correcting me on every error I made, lol. And, cough, I don't think I will take
your advise just becasue I need to get there in about 15 minutes and walking is
not the way to approach that. To tell you the truth 2 miles is an guess, it
could be 3, not too much difference.
I thank the rest of you for your replys, when it comes time to buy the bike I
will compare what the store people say to what you say.
Im riding on pavment all the way there. I might not just be riding that little
bit, during summer I am planning to get a little more seriously into biking. I
mean like waking up in the morning and having my 3 hours riding around the
Forest Preserve or somewhere else time.
Kenny Lee
> Even better than bike advice:
>
> Walk the two miles each way. It's just as healthy, and really won't take
> that long. Save your $800 and use the money to double up on the English
> composition courses. That post is absolutely tortuous to read! Standards
> are pretty low on USENET, but for the love of God man, we learn the
> difference between "a" and "an" as children! The occasional apostrophe
> wouldn't hurt either--- here's a few you can borrow : ''''''''''''''''''''.
> It's obvious to me that you are a native speaker....just not a native
> writer.
>
> We'll move on to sentence structure tomorrow.
>
> Sorry, but this one got to me.
>
> BTW: Mr Fogel speaks much truth
>
> The Prof.
>
I heard that Dave is really Peter Chisholm incognito. To bad his grammar
and syntax gave him away.
Just kidding,
Kenny Lee
Tom Sherman
Dear Carl,
I am going to voice some disagreement here - and no, I am no suggesting
that the original poster spend $2K on a used recumbent lowracer or trike. ;)
For the price of a new discount store bike made in mainland China under
horrific working conditions [1], one can get a used entry level MTB made
by a real bicycle company (e.g. Giant, Trek). These are not particularly
tempting for thieves (especially the steel frame, rigid fork models).
Unlike the discount store bicycles, these have components that with a
little maintenance will function well and last for several thousand
miles of use.
If one looks a little harder, one can find steel frame road bikes form
the 1980's and early 1990's in the same price range that have standard
size fittings.
Both of the above alternatives will provide a more enjoyable riding
experience and a better long-term value than a cheap discount store bicycle.
[1]
<http://www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/chinareport/huffybikesdoc.shtml>.
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
Dave Carroll
> Even better than bike advice:
>
> Walk the two miles each way. It's just as healthy, and really won't take
> that long. Save your $800 and use the money to double up on the English
> composition courses. That post is absolutely tortuous to read! Standards
> are pretty low on USENET, but for the love of God man, we learn the
> difference between "a" and "an" as children! The occasional apostrophe
> wouldn't hurt either--- here's a few you can borrow : ''''''''''''''''''''.
> It's obvious to me that you are a native speaker....just not a native
> writer.
>
> We'll move on to sentence structure tomorrow.
If you have nothing better to do than acting like a pedantic jack*ss
rather than responding to the question, could you at least do somewhere
else other than this forum? What a waste of ten minutes to write what you
must imagine is a witty reposte in order to comment on a few grammatical
mistakes.
Rick Onanian
<tshe...@qconline.com> wrote:
>If one looks a little harder, one can find steel frame road bikes form
>the 1980's and early 1990's in the same price range that have standard
>size fittings.
Actually, one can find such bikes much cheaper -- nearly free, or
actually free. Keep the eyes open on garbage day and when passing
Salvation Army stores.
--
Rick Onanian
Chris B.
onefred
>
> Ill try to summarize this up a bit. I need a bike for traveling to
> college and back, I might join a bike group, it needs to be fast and
> easy to ride, and cant be much more than 800$. Please refer me to some
> bikes that would fit this description.
Dave,
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1647008&cat=5304&type=
21&dept=4125
Save the rest of your money for pizza and coffee.
Carl Fogel
[snip]
> Even better than bike advice:
>
> Walk the two miles each way. It's just as healthy, and really won't take
> that long. Save your $800 and use the money to double up on the English
> composition courses. That post is absolutely tortuous to read! Standards
> are pretty low on USENET, but for the love of God man, we learn the
> difference between "a" and "an" as children! The occasional apostrophe
> wouldn't hurt either--- here's a few you can borrow : ''''''''''''''''''''.
> It's obvious to me that you are a native speaker....just not a native
> writer.
>
> We'll move on to sentence structure tomorrow.
>
> Sorry, but this one got to me.
>
> BTW: Mr Fogel speaks much truth
>
> The Prof.
Dear English Teacher,
The room is spinning--it's all going black--I
seem to have a red pen in my hand again--
1) Comma missing: "for the love of God man!"
"for the love of God, man!"
(See final lines of Poe, "Cask of Amontillado.")
2) Punctuation: "wouldn't hurt, either--- here's . . ."
"wouldn't hurt, either--here's . . ."
(Use two hyphens with no spacing for a dash.)
3) Subject-verb agreement: "Here's a few . . ."
"Here are a few . . ."
4) Improper can/may usage: " . . . that you can borrow."
" . . . that you may borrow."
5) Punctuation: " . . . borrow : '''''"
" . . . borrow: '''''"
(No space precedes a colon.)
6) Punctuation: " . . . native speaker....just not . . ."
" . . . native speaker . . . just not . . ."
(Use three spaced periods with single spaces before
and after to indicate a pause or omission within a
sentence. Four periods indicate omissions of a full
sentence or greater.)
7) Punctuation: "Mr Fogel"
"Mr. Fogel"
Ah, happy memories of grading freshman essays!
Good, clean, mindless sport! Strange how none
of my victims ever found it worth arguing about
commas.
You'll probably do better if you resist the urge
to fuss at folks about the way that they write.
Think how obnoxious it would be for someone to
ignore what you said to them aloud and instead
to criticize your speaking habits.
In marked contrast to English classes, content
rules here, not style, spelling, grammar, punctuation,
or proof-reading. It's far more interesting.
(If you want to see well-written essays with
impressive clarity and focus, browse through
a few posts from Chalo Colina. I don't know
whether he tosses them off while listening
to his phone messages or slaves over several
drafts, but I wish that I wrote as clearly as
he does and could stay as focussed. But I
digress . . .)
BTW: Mr. Fogel can be twice as silly as anyone
in this newsgroup, so ignore his corrections.
He doesn't always see eye-to-eye with the MLA,
anyway.
Hope to see you again,
Carl Fogel
Q.
news:400e159d$0$43852$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
That bike is a piece of crap. Wait, I take that back ... a 35 lbs pile of
crap would be much more useful to me than that bike. I wouldn't spend $20
on it. I have a bike my friend took out of the trash that is about 6 times
better than that bike.
I bought one of those last year for the hell of it and test rode it for a
day. I couldn't return it fast enough. Everything about the bike is junk,
except for the kick stand. Seriously, the kick stand is the best kick stand
I've seen on a bike with a very nice locking mechanism.
The "full suspension" for all practical purposes is just for show. The rear
"shock" is a joke. The only reason to buy this bike is so you can better
justify buying a real bike later on. Education is expensive sometimes, and
it will be in this case.
If you want to be cheep, get a hybrid city bike from Giant for about $200.
Much nicer bike. Throw some fenders and a rack on it ($50 total from
Nashbar) and you'll be all set for a commuter.
Where abouts do you live? If you live anywhere near Boston drop in and see
Sheldon Brown, I'm sure he'd hook you up nice.
I wish I had $800 to spend on a bike )c:
C.Q.C.
Mike Krueger
> college and back, I might join a bike group, it needs to be fast and
> easy to ride, and cant be much more than 800$. Please refer me to some
> bikes that would fit this description.
There are lots of nice used road bikes on eBay in that price range. You will
also need to buy appropriate pedals, bike shoes, and a helmet.
David Damerell
>knowledge of a new worker, he got ripped off. Can you just recomend
>some bikes or tell me what you guys have and how you like them?
That won't help you as much as you think, but;
I ride about 22 miles on a typical workday, sometimes a little more, and
(very occasionally, of late) do Sunday rides of greater distances. I also
make short utility trips in town; I have an Orbit City Trailer for
transporting shopping and the like. I regularly ride at night; every
workday during winter, and at least once a week all year. I never ride
offroad (er, apart from last night's impromptu cyclocross expedition,
oddly enough).
I ride a light touring bicycle; a steel road frame with room for
medium-sized tyres and mudguards, with mounting fixtures for mudguards, a
pannier rack, and cantilever brakes, all of which I have fitted. I use
drop handlebars, but mount them higher than current fashion demands. I
don't use "clipless" pedals, which is slightly more awkward, but enables
me to ride in the same boots I will wear at work; instead I use MKS
platform pedals and toeclips. My wheels are of the conventional 36-spoke
design which is highly robust; I built them myself.
I've found that cheap aluminium pannier racks are easily destroyed, and
had to buy a more expensive steel rack. I use Ortlieb panniers, which are
completely waterproof and detach easily from the bicycle; I don't lock
them on, but remove them and take them with me. I also very recently
acquired a Brooks saddlebag for overflow loads, and of course the trailer
can carry a lot of stuff if need be.
I have a 14-speed drivetrain, since seven-speed rears are the cheapest
readily available components, and also make for stronger rear wheels than
greater numbers of sprockets. The front cranks are made by Sugino; the
110mm bolt circle diameter accomodates a smaller small chainring, which
lets me avoid the need for a triple without having to struggle up hills;
the front chainrings are 52/34, and the rear sprockets range from 13 to
34. A super-high gear is not necessary; but conversely there is always a
heavier load to be hauled up a steeper hill. The cranks do have a 74mm
bolt circle on which I could mount a third "granny" ring; I have a front
derailleur intended for triple use in order that I could make this change
easily if needed. I use bar-end shifters, which are more robust than
integrated brake/shifter units; also, friction front shifting makes it
easier to deal with that giant chainring leap. The rear shifter is
index/friction switchable, so if the indexing goes out I can just switch
to friction and continue the ride.
I do wear specialised cycling clothing; shorts, a jersey (long sleeved in
cold weather - cut the sleeves off a short-sleeved jersey entirely, so
your farmer's tan is not easily exposed in t-shirts), bibtights in cold
weather, and gloves; but for short journeys it's quicker to ride in normal
clothes and be a little slower. You will still want gloves, to help
protect your wrists from road vibration - and in cold weather, the fingers
are the first victim. I wear clear goggles only when there are a lot of
flying insects around. I do not wear a helmet, since they are ineffective
for road cyclists. In wet weather you will need mudguards and waterproofs,
obviously; it is particularly worthwhile to have waterproof booties, since
wet feet get really cold and miserable. I use a traditional cycling cape,
but they are not for everyone; in particular, they are completely useless
without full mudguards.
My main light is a Schmidt dynamo hub driving a Bisy headlight and B&M
Seculite rear LED. I also mount a Smart battery headlight which is
switchable between LED and halogen bulb; I use the LED to be seen in lit
areas (it has very low power consumption) and the halogen bulb in dark
areas. The Bisy is the best available dynamo headlight, but does not have
a standlight to provide "being seen" light while stopped, so a separate
headlight is necessary - of course if you are paranoid you will never want
to rely on a single lighting system anyway. I mount two rear battery LED
lights, because they're light and cheap as dirt, and you can't tell when a
rear light packs it in.
I carry a pump, a spare inner tube (so as not to fix tubes on the road), a
puncture repair kit (don't tempt fate with a spare inner tube alone) which
includes the head from a ladies' disposable razor (in order to shave the
seam off seamed inner tubes, which it does very well), a tyre boot, tyre
levers, two grain bars for emergency munchies, spare batteries for the
headlight, a spare bulb for the dynamo headlight, a folding minitool, and
a plastic bag to put over my saddle when I leave the bike in the rain.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
d...@florence.edu
wrote:
I had a friend that bought a department store bike and rode it about
60 miles a week. Although the bike performed OK she frequently had me
trueing the wheels and making adjustments to her index shifter. My
guess is that the cable housings were cheap and compressed over time.
It is amazing how some small misadjustment caused by a cost cutting
manufacturer can make your life miserable. Even a good solid bike
that gets ridden hard requires a lot of adjustments, so unless you are
a do it yourself type person it is sometimes better to establish a
good relationship with a shop.
John Everett
On the price/performance curve I've been pretty impressed with Fuji.
Check out their web site at:
http://www.fujibikes.com/road/default.asp?yr=2004
The Newest and Finest road bikes are in your price range, as is the
Touring (if you're looking for something with a rack).
One of my bikes is a Touring, but not the current model.
YMMV; there are lots of other manufacturers to look at. :-)
jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
Werehatrack
said:
> Ill try to summarize this up a bit. I need a bike for traveling to
>college and back, I might join a bike group, it needs to be fast and
>easy to ride, and cant be much more than 800$. Please refer me to some
>bikes that would fit this description.
I'd go for a hybrid; something built on a road frame but with flat
(not road-style) handlebars, and perhaps with a slightly wider tire
(up around 32 to 35mm) to account for the fact that you're probably
going to have to bump some curbs on campus in places. Because there
are a large number of selections available which should meet your
needs, I'd say that your best bet is to check the local bike shops
(rather than the sporting goods stores) for this one.
It's really a matter of what fits you and your preferred style, which
is something that the folks at a bike shop can take into account
better than the drones at a place like Oshman's.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
Werehatrack
custodians of the "abandoned bicycles" collection, from which there is
often a way of obtaining a bike very cheap or free. It will often
need some repairs, but potentially may save you enough to bail you out
when a prof suddenly decides that you need *another* $80 textbook that
wasn't on the required list at the start of the term. Crummy but
serviceable used bikes are also often to be found at thrift stores.
For a short commute such as you describe, virtually any bike that it's
*possible* for you to ride will fill the bill adequately. Once you're
settled in, if you decide to hook up with a local group for rides,
they will probably know where the best deals are to be had on bikes
for those recreational purposes.
jhuskey
college and back, I might join a bike group, it needs to be fast and
easy to ride, and cant be much more than 800$. Please refer me to some
bikes that would fit this description.
First of all don't buy a toy bike from Wal-Mart or similar outlet.You
may not ride a lot,but if you get hooked ,and you may,you will wear out
a cheap bike in one year. That advise comes from experience not theory.I
have ridden both sides of the fence. Go to a bike shop take out a a road
bike and a mountain bike for a rideand see what fits best.I am guessing
a mountain bike like a Trek 4300 or similar might work. I have both road
and mountain. Bought both used and got great deals. For $800.00 of less
you can obtain a very good bike.Take your time and don't rush the
purchase. Good luck
--
Dave Z
these I should be able to get a good bike. As I said I will tell you guys what
I think I am going to get. I will probably not be actually buying a bike for a
couple months, but I wanted to get information about what to buy now so that I
can keep my eyes open for good deals and things like that.
Steven M. Scharf
> OK, I am going to buy a bike. I need it for transportation mainly and
> dont know much about bikes. Most days I am going to ride 4 miles (I
> know that is very short but with an 5-10 lb. backpack and I need to
> get there preety fast). 2 miles each way from college to my house.
> I am also thinking of joining an bike group so I guess it shouldnt
> just be for short rides. I can only spend around 800 dollars on it, so
> nothing to fancy. I guess I just need an fast, easy ride.
> It doesn't need to fold up, it is going to be locked up with an very
> hard to cut lock, and it cannot be lock picked.
Argh. The way the thieves defeat these locks is not by cutting or picking,
it's with jacks and freeze spray. College campuses are notorious for bike
theft. No way I'd leave an $800 bicycle out of my sight on a college campus.
Also, remember that thieves steal components as well as whole bikes. Lock
the frame, the wheels, and the seat too.
My advice:
Get one $150-200 hybrid for your transportation bike, i.e. a basic,
non-suspension, Specialized Expedition, or even a Costco Motiv Smoothie.
Better yet, buy a used one for $50-100. It'll be fast enough for a 4 mile
commute. Spend the remaining $600 on a road bike.
If you're truly not worried about theft, then for a single bike, I'd advise
the Fuji Touring Road Bike. Several reasons:
1) Threaded headset with adjustable height quill stem, as opposed to the
less desirable, low, fixed height threadless headset found on most lower end
road bicycles. Yeah, I know that the threadless headsets can be adjusted
with the use of funky extenders, but it's a hassle besides the extra
expense.
2) Regular frame, as opposed to a compact frame, as found on most Trek and
Specialized road bikes.
3) Chromolloy steel frame, as opposed to an aluminum frame
See: http://fujibikes.com/road/default.asp?yr=2004
Downside is that it's a little heavy, though the included rear rack is
partly responsible for that.
Whatever you buy for a road bike, avoid compact frames, threadless headsets,
and aluminum frames, if at all possible. It's possible, though not easy.
Steven M. Scharf
"Jacobe Hazzard" <spam...@ATeudoramail.DOTcom> wrote in message
news:sXhPb.66879$nl2....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Dave Zale wrote:
> > Well I would like to get your guys opions, I am going to
> > ask the bike store but my friend had a bad expierence
> > with that. He really didn't know much about bikes and
> > asked a person. In the end, due to a lack of knowledge of
> > a new worker, he got ripped off. Can you just recomend
> > some bikes or tell me what you guys have and how you like
> > them?
>
> That's why you gotta visit more than one store, and make sure the
employees
> answer all your questions to your satisfaction, and can justify their
> recommendations. If the employee at the shop is talking down to you, or
> rushing you, or glossing over your questions, let them know and then walk
> out.
>
> As another poster points out, there are a lot of inexpensive bikes out
there
> that will satisfy your needs, and probably your speed will be about the
same
> on all of them. The most important thing is fit. You need a bike that fits
> well. You need a bike shop that will sell you the right size frame, and
> adjust the handlebars and saddle properly for your body, and continue to
> make adjustments after purchase if necessary.
Very difficult with the newer frames and headsets to do much adjustment on
the handlebars. Gone are the days of the adjustable height threaded headsets
except on the very expensive road bikes. The compact frames are another
thing to watch out for. You can use headset extenders to raise the headset,
but this adds weight and expense and looks terrible.
Tom Ace
> Argh. The way the thieves defeat these locks is not by cutting or picking,
> it's with jacks and freeze spray.
Jacks, yes. Freeze spray, no.
The freeze method is an urban legend; it doesn't work.
Tom Ace
Rick Onanian
<scharf...@linkearth.net> wrote:
>road bicycles. Yeah, I know that the threadless headsets can be adjusted
>with the use of funky extenders, but it's a hassle besides the extra
>expense.
FYI:
Actually, most threadless can be adjusted within a similar range as
most threaded by simply flipping the stem and/or adding/removing
spacers (25 cents at a LBS, small and unobtrusive). If you need more
rise or drop, or more/less extension, you can get a new stem
cheaply.
The end result is pretty much the same as a threaded. It does seem a
bit easier for me with threadless -- a 5mm allen wrench is all I
need, and I never need to remove bar tape/brake levers/etc.
Anyway, either system is pretty much as good as the other, when all
is said and done.
For those wanting even easier adjustability, there are stems in both
types that swivel up and down.
--
Rick Onanian
Werehatrack
may have said:
>Anyway, either system is pretty much as good as the other, when all
>is said and done.
Devious plans are afoot. Why settle for one when you can have both...
>For those wanting even easier adjustability, there are stems in both
>types that swivel up and down.
Locally, the examples of that tech are far cheaper for threaded than
threadless. I see no reason why this should be true.
onefred
"Q." <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2YadnSotQq2...@comcast.com...
> "onefred" <datay...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:400e159d$0$43852$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
> > "Dave Zale" <davi...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:2a93d093.04011...@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Ill try to summarize this up a bit. I need a bike for traveling to
> > > college and back, I might join a bike group, it needs to be fast and
> > > easy to ride, and cant be much more than 800$. Please refer me to some
> > > bikes that would fit this description.
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> >
>
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1647008&cat=5304&type=
> > 21&dept=4125
> >
> > Save the rest of your money for pizza and coffee.
>
> That bike is a piece of crap. Wait, I take that back ... a 35 lbs pile of
> crap would be much more useful to me than that bike. I wouldn't spend $20
> on it. I have a bike my friend took out of the trash that is about 6
times
> better than that bike.
Q, did you notice that it's made out of Aluminum AND features Gripe-shift??
Well, since you brought it up..., just what exactly would you do with 35
pounds of shit?
Dave
onefred
"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf...@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:SBIPb.21660$1e....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Dave Zale wrote:
>
> > OK, I am going to buy a bike. I need it for transportation mainly and
> > dont know much about bikes. Most days I am going to ride 4 miles (I
> > know that is very short but with an 5-10 lb. backpack and I need to
> > get there preety fast). 2 miles each way from college to my house.
> > I am also thinking of joining an bike group so I guess it shouldnt
> > just be for short rides. I can only spend around 800 dollars on it, so
> > nothing to fancy. I guess I just need an fast, easy ride.
> > It doesn't need to fold up, it is going to be locked up with an very
> > hard to cut lock, and it cannot be lock picked.
>
> Argh. The way the thieves defeat these locks is not by cutting or picking,
> it's with jacks and freeze spray. College campuses are notorious for bike
> theft. No way I'd leave an $800 bicycle out of my sight on a college
campus.
> Also, remember that thieves steal components as well as whole bikes. Lock
> the frame, the wheels, and the seat too.
The difference between using a NYC lock and and a regular lock is that a
thief will break the regular lock while you're not there. For the NYC lock,
he'll wait until you unlock your bike and then introduce you to his 18"
crescent wrench. Sometimes the non-thief proof locks aren't so bad
afterall.
> My advice:
>
> Get one $150-200 hybrid for your transportation bike, i.e. a basic,
> non-suspension, Specialized Expedition, or even a Costco Motiv Smoothie.
> Better yet, buy a used one for $50-100. It'll be fast enough for a 4 mile
> commute. Spend the remaining $600 on a road bike.
This is just an observation, but if his cycling group is into Mtn. biking,
he'll have made a poor purchase.
Dave
Steven M. Scharf
"Tom Ace" <cr...@qnet.com> wrote in message
news:400F5830...@qnet.com...
It works. You're not doing it right. You don't just spray it on a Kryptonite
style lock and wait for the lock to break. There are other steps in the
process, which I will not disclose here as I don't want anyone moving in on
my territory.
Steven M. Scharf
"Rick Onanian" <spam...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:p0m010hdme933h6n2...@4ax.com...
> Actually, most threadless can be adjusted within a similar range as
Very limited range. Not nearly as much as with a quill stem. Why would you
have to remove bar tape/brake levers/etc. with a quill stem?
David Damerell
>Very limited range. Not nearly as much as with a quill stem. Why would you
>have to remove bar tape/brake levers/etc. with a quill stem?
When replacing the stem in order to change fore-aft adjustment.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Sheldon Brown
>>Actually, most threadless can be adjusted within a similar range as
Steven M. Scharf replied:
> Very limited range. Not nearly as much as with a quill stem. Why would you
> have to remove bar tape/brake levers/etc. with a quill stem?
Modern "pop top" 2-bolt stems can easily be swapped without messing with
tape and levers. This style of stem is readily available in both quill
and threadless styles.
See my article on raising handlebars: http://sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html
Sheldon "All Handlebars Are Adjustable" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| It is amazing how much "mature wisdom" resembles being too tired. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
Jacobe Hazzard
It usually means swapping a stem but the handlebars definitely
can/should/must be adjusted to fit the rider.
jtill
say WHAT? I know this has nothing to do with the original poster's
question, but I have to question the validity of this statement (and I'm
surprised no one caught it before), so as not to mislead anyone. I don't
see what about road (esp. city, as it sounds like our boy is doing)
riding makes a helmet any less necessary (in relation to 'froading, i'm
assuming). In fact, I can think of a few things that make them more
necessary, such as CONCRETE PAVEMENT, stoplights, and unpredictable
drivers. Lets not mislead ayone who might be getting into cycling: BUY A
FREAKIN' HELMET, ANY (ansi or snell approved) HELMET AND WEAR IT!
P.S. this is not to say that I always wear a helmet, but when I don't I
never delude myself into thinking that what I'm doing is just as
safe and I know it'll be my own damn fault when my head busts wide
open on the bumper of an SUV.
--
Tom Sherman
> I do not wear a helmet, since they are ineffective for road cyclists.
> David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
>
> say WHAT? I know this has nothing to do with the original poster's
> question, but I have to question the validity of this statement (and I'm
> surprised no one caught it before...
I suspect that plenty of people noticed it, but chose to ignore it.
There have been enough tediously long h*lm*t use discussions (usually
involving the same few posters making the same tired arguments) on
cycling Usenet newsgroups that most of the regulars would rather discuss
the ecological impact of mountain biking with M*k* V*nd*m*n than h*lm*t use.
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
Dave Z
A Muzi
> and what did u just say? i dont know what M*k*V*nd*m*n than h*lm*t means.
Lucky you.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
David Damerell
>jtill wrote:
>>David Damerell:
>>>I do not wear a helmet, since they are ineffective for road cyclists.
>>question, but I have to question the validity of this statement (and I'm
>>surprised no one caught it before...
>I suspect that plenty of people noticed it, but chose to ignore it.
But a little thing like that won't stop the Cycling Forums Sock Puppet
Brigade!
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Tom Ace
> > The freeze method is an urban legend; it doesn't work.
>
> It works. You're not doing it right. You don't just spray it on a Kryptonite
> style lock and wait for the lock to break. There are other steps in the
> process, which I will not disclose here as I don't want anyone moving in on
> my territory.
I have frozen lock bars with freon and liquid nitrogen, and hammered
on them as hard as I could (at home, on an anvil). Nothing happened.
I've seen literature from Kryptonite that was very skeptical
of the freeze method. They solicited first-hand accounts;
they wanted to hear about any genuine instances where it worked.
(I know that literature from a lock manufacturer is not conclusive;
I am skeptical of the freeze method for several reasons.)
If you have real results, you'd be helping Kryptonite (and consumers
who might ultimately benefit from your findings) by contacting them.
If you offered real info that would be one thing.
I don't find your "I will not disclose" convincing.
Tom Ace
Tom Sherman
> and what did u just say? i dont know what M*k*V*nd*m*n than h*lm*t means.
Stop in over at rec.bicycles.soc - there are about 20 or so current
threads started by M*k* V*nd*m*n.
H*lm*t should be obvious - or do you need to buy a vowel or two?
Tom Sherman
The effectiveness of "freezing" [1] will depend on the
brittle-to-ductile (BTD) transition temperature of the alloy in question
- I suspect that manufacturers of quality locks would use an alloy with
a very low BTD for this reason.
[1] Of course it is not really freezing, since the metal is already in a
solid state.
Carl Fogel
Dear Tom,
I'm skeptical, too, but would be charmed by a
video of someone taking the considerable trouble
and expense to cool a lock down to a brittle enough
state and then jacking it or smashing it apart,
Terminator-2-style.
Frankly, I'd expect a small cutting torch to be
more practical and less dangerous than pouring
liquid nitrogen all over a lock and bike. Of course,
Steven may have been joking--and here I am moving
in on his territory.
While locks vary widely, few plain pin-tumbler locks
resist picking. Hand, snap, or buzz picking methods
let even ham-fisted clods like me open an awful lot
of locks.
And if anything, the tubular versions are generally
even easier to pick due to weaknesses in their design,
which is lucky, since I know of no common snap or buzz
tools for opening them.
As for any secrets, lock-picking is no more a
secret art than magic. Practically every technique
and trick is for sale through dealers in both lines.
(Majestic Lock is not a bad place to start.)
Truly pick-resistant locks usually cost far more,
but I'd be interested to hear if any bike locks
like Kryptonite use false (mushroom) or beveled
swivel-pins, which are unusual in tubular locks.
Locks that cannot be easily picked can be often
broken without descending deep into the Kelvin
scale. There are plenty of hydraulic jacks that
can be adapted to pop or cut locks. And my 4-foot
bolt cutters have come in handy when friends lost
keys to fairly good padlocks.
Carl Fogel
Bill Putnam
...
> Frankly, I'd expect a small cutting torch to be
> more practical and less dangerous than pouring
> Carl Fogel
From personal experience I can say that an oxy-acetylene cutting torch
works quite effectively on Kryptonite locks.
Bill Putnam, who did such a thing on his own lock in front of his own
house
David Reuteler
: Bill Putnam, who did such a thing on his own lock in front of his own
: house
& i bet no one stopped or even questioned you..
says dave, who's had 2 bikes stolen in broad daylight, all locked, somewhat
unfortunately to signs and bike racks not entirely secure.
1. 12' sign -- 3 signs unbolted, removed and the bike slid over the top
on a sunday in northeast minneapolis on a busy street.
2. inverted U bike-rack bolted to the ground that wasn't for long. the
bike-rack was unbolted from the ground to get the bike. again in
daylight. surprised the hell out of the owner of the rack. there
wasn't much embedded in anything.
neither were especially nice bikes. i bring my bikes inside at home and
usually at work. actually recently at work they moved me into the new
flash corporate office building where i can no longer bring my bike into
my cube. the building has a bike rack (well, sorta .. it's not attached
to the ground, it's small enuf for 4x2 bikes and will fit into the back of
a pick-up truck and is sheltered from view by shrubs). when i asked if
there were any other alternatives the security guard told me i could leave
the bike at home.
thus ending my 16 year streak of never telling a security guard to fuck off.
pity, too. that'd been one of my longer streaks.
so they're working on other alternatives (i suspect they'll float me). for
now i park it half a mile down the road by the coffee shop and walk. i
like coffee in the morning anyway. not so much at nite.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
A Muzi
Carl Fogel wrote:
> While locks vary widely, few plain pin-tumbler locks
> resist picking. Hand, snap, or buzz picking methods
> let even ham-fisted clods like me open an awful lot
> of locks.
>
> And if anything, the tubular versions are generally
> even easier to pick due to weaknesses in their design,
> which is lucky, since I know of no common snap or buzz
> tools for opening them.
USA made Kryptonites use an Ace (Chicago) keyway with
matched-length split pins and springs so your spider tool
won't pick it.
Their import lock does not
Steven Scharf
> Very difficult with the newer frames and headsets to do much adjustment on
> the handlebars. Gone are the days of the adjustable height threaded headsets
> except on the very expensive road bikes.
Sorry to follow up on my own post. I was in a bike shop today, and
they were selling Bianchi Bravas like crazy for $510 (regular price
$600). Chromolly frame, adjustable quill threaded headset, lower end
Sora component group. Overheard one of the explanations of the
advantage of the quill stem being height adjustable!
Bianchi's site: "New forged alloy adjustable stem gives you more
choices"
Specialized touts their bikes with the adjustable stem with:
"Adjustable handlebar stem, customizable comfort – set the bars at the
height that's right for you"
Don't you love it when a company decontents a product, then recontents
it and makes a big deal of a feature that they told you wasn't
necessary in the first place! The same store had a big selection of
threadless headset height adjuster thingees, but spending an extra
$20-50 for something that used to be included, seems ridiculous.
The Bianchi Brava is a very nice entry level road bike. I was
tempted, but I really want a Rivendell Romulus, but at $1400, it was a
little high. I stopped by another shop, very disappointing selection,
only Trek and the Trek sub-brands (Le Mond,Fisher, Klein), nothing
decent under $1800.
Ron Linz
news:4f153f94.04020...@posting.google.com:
Where can you get a Rivendell Romulus for $1400? I thought that
the frames alone were $995. I like the Romulus and Rambouillet, but
I thought that the complete bike ran about $2500.
Steven M. Scharf
news:ktudnRty042...@comcast.com...
> Where can you get a Rivendell Romulus for $1400? I thought that
> the frames alone were $995. I like the Romulus and Rambouillet, but
> I thought that the complete bike ran about $2500.
The Romulus is sold only as a complete bicycle. The Romulus has a normal
price of $1550. It was on sale for 10% off (it may have been 15% off, the
store's sale explanation was unclear). It said '10% off all 2004, 20% off
all 2003, up to 50% off clothing, etc., extra 5% off during the Super Bowl.'
Wasn't clear if that extra 5% applied to everything or just the 50% off
stuff.
This was at Bicycle Outfitter in Los Altos, California.
The thing that stopped me from getting the Romulus is that I hate bar end
shifters. To change to brifters or downtube shifters would add $100-150, if
I did the conversion myself. I'm hoping that they change to the Shimano105
brifters in a future year's model, but maybe Grant Peterson has a thing
against brifters.
This particular store has an "annual" 10% off sales every few months (!). So
if I decide to splurge in a few months it'll still be available.
David Damerell
>The thing that stopped me from getting the Romulus is that I hate bar end
>shifters. To change to brifters or downtube shifters would add $100-150, if
>I did the conversion myself.
Why on earth would a conversion to DT shifters add $100 let alone $150?
The frame has DT shifter bosses...
A Muzi
>>The thing that stopped me from getting the Romulus is that I hate bar end
>>shifters. To change to brifters or downtube shifters would add $100-150, if
>>I did the conversion myself.
David Damerell wrote:
> Why on earth would a conversion to DT shifters add $100 let alone $150?
> The frame has DT shifter bosses...
It is not clear what he prefers for equipment but that is
not out of line.
New basic DT levers plus tape around $30.
Campagnolo current 10sp shifters & DT mounting kit about $185
As with everything else different riders perceive this
problem differently.
David Damerell
>David Damerell wrote:
>>Steven M. Scharf <scharf...@linkearth.net> wrote:
>>>The thing that stopped me from getting the Romulus is that I hate bar end
>>>shifters. To change to brifters or downtube shifters would add $100-150, if
>>>I did the conversion myself.
>>The frame has DT shifter bosses...
>It is not clear what he prefers for equipment but that is
>not out of line.
>New basic DT levers plus tape around $30.
>Campagnolo current 10sp shifters & DT mounting kit about $185
Can you _get_ a Romulus with Campy 10sp, though?
Now I look, I see it's Shimano 105 9-speed. I don't think they cost $150,
do you?
--
bfd
I have to agree that at $1400 or so (with that 10% discount) the
Romulus is an excellent buy. However, you it comes with Shimano
bar-end shifters. Since the Romulus comes with Shimano 105
derailleurs, like Andy Muzi said, conversion to shimano dt shifters
should be around $30 or so for parts. If you want to convert to
Shimano 105 STI shifters, expect to pay $130-150 for just the STI
shifters. If you want to convert to Campy 10 spd, get something
else....
A Muzi
>>>>The thing that stopped me from getting the Romulus is that I hate bar end
>>>>shifters. To change to brifters or downtube shifters would add $100-150, if
>>>>I did the conversion myself.
>>David Damerell wrote:
>>>Why on earth would a conversion to DT shifters add $100 let alone $150?
>>>The frame has DT shifter bosses...
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>It is not clear what he prefers for equipment but that is
>>not out of line.
>>New basic DT levers plus tape around $30.
>>Campagnolo current 10sp shifters & DT mounting kit about $185
David Damerell wrote:
> Can you _get_ a Romulus with Campy 10sp, though?
> Now I look, I see it's Shimano 105 9-speed. I don't think they cost $150,
> do you?
No and I was perplexed as well with those numbers. I tried
to span the range.
So, Steven, what the heck _are_ you talking about?
Benjamin Lewis
He buys his shifters from the same place he buys his bicycle dynamo
systems.
Just tryin' to stir up more trouble,
--
Benjamin Lewis
On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague:
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli
David Damerell
>David Damerell wrote:
>>A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>David Damerell wrote:
>>>>>The thing that stopped me from getting the Romulus is that I hate bar end
>>>>>shifters. To change to brifters or downtube shifters would add $100-150
>>do you?
He's getting his DT shifters from the same outlet as his $400 dynamos, no
doubt.
Steven M. Scharf
news:W+F*ek...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
The Shimano 105 STI Levers cost $130 from Bike Nashbar.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=8106
If I get them from the bike shop, and let them install them, it'd be about
$175.
Steven M. Scharf
> He's getting his DT shifters from the same outlet as his $400 dynamos, no
> doubt.
The adequate dynamos are available from Peter White Cycles.They are not $400
as you are well aware. Sad that you continue to lie about this, what's your
motivation for this?
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dymotec.asp
The dynamo is $270. The Lumotec Oval Plus 12 headlamp is $70. The DToplight
Plus 12 tail light is $59.
The complete system, with a headlight, tail light, a couple of spare bulbs,
and shipping, is well over $400
This is the only adequate dynamo system for urban commuting.
David Damerell
An attribution line without quoted text is useless, especially when the
quoted text is necessary for context. Let's have some;
>Why on earth would a conversion to DT shifters add $100 let alone $150?
>The Shimano 105 STI Levers cost $130 from Bike Nashbar.
And this says _what_ about the cost of a conversion to DT shifters,
exactly?
bfd
> Steven M. Scharf <scharf...@linkearth.net> wrote:
> >"David Damerell" <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>
> An attribution line without quoted text is useless, especially when the
> quoted text is necessary for context. Let's have some;
>
> >Why on earth would a conversion to DT shifters add $100 let alone $150?
>
> >The Shimano 105 STI Levers cost $130 from Bike Nashbar.
>
> And this says _what_ about the cost of a conversion to DT shifters,
> exactly?
> --
consider a Romulus bicycle, which comes standard with bar-end shifters, if
he could convert the shifters to Shimano STI shifters. The conversion to STI
shifters would cost in the $130 (nashbar price, install himself) to $175 or
more, if a shop does it.
IF the OP wants to convert a Romulus from bar-end shifters to DOWNTUBE
shifters, the cost of the parts should be in the $30 neighborhood, plus any
labor for installation if he doesn't do it himself.
David Damerell
>>doubt.
>The adequate dynamos are available from Peter White Cycles.They are not $400
>as you are well aware. Sad that you continue to lie about this,
$400 is your figure. I am not lying; unless you mean to suggest that I
seriously expect to deceive someone by saying "dynamo" rather than "dynamo
system", which is absurd - anyone who gets this joke about your
ridiculous figures at all will necessarily remember the previous thread.
>http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dymotec.asp
>The dynamo is $270. The Lumotec Oval Plus 12 headlamp is $70. The DToplight
>Plus 12 tail light is $59.
>The complete system, with a headlight, tail light, a couple of spare bulbs,
>and shipping, is well over $400
>This is the only adequate dynamo system for urban commuting.
Mere repeated assertion doesn't make this true; even if you demand a 6W
system (which you have not yet shown is necessary) your persistent
ignoring of the fact that this can be achieved with 2 headlights on a
cheaper system must surely by now be deliberate.
Furthermore, I notice that in the closing stages of that thread, you
suddenly started saying that certain things were adequate for being seen
but would not do for riding in the dark (indeed, some of your array of
"experts" were saying the same thing), which directly contradicts your
earlier claims that urban commuting is the most demanding application. You
don't even know _what_ you are repeatedly asserting!
David Damerell
>"David Damerell" <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>>Steven M. Scharf <scharf...@linkearth.net> wrote:
>>>>Why on earth would a conversion to DT shifters add $100 let alone $150?
>>>The Shimano 105 STI Levers cost $130 from Bike Nashbar.
>>And this says _what_ about the cost of a conversion to DT shifters,
>>exactly?
>consider a Romulus bicycle, which comes standard with bar-end shifters, if
>he could convert the shifters to Shimano STI shifters.
The line originally being responded to is this one:
"To change to brifters or downtube shifters would add $100-150."
This is out-and-out untrue. To change to brifters _or_ downtube shifters
would cost around $30.
A Muzi
> news:0Zn*Is...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>>He's getting his DT shifters from the same outlet as his $400 dynamos, no
>>doubt.
Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> The adequate dynamos are available from Peter White Cycles.They are not $400
> as you are well aware. Sad that you continue to lie about this, what's your
> motivation for this?
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dymotec.asp
> The dynamo is $270. The Lumotec Oval Plus 12 headlamp is $70. The DToplight
> Plus 12 tail light is $59.
> The complete system, with a headlight, tail light, a couple of spare bulbs,
> and shipping, is well over $400
> This is the only adequate dynamo system for urban commuting.
> http://www.bicyclelighting.com
"The dynamo is not $400 , the only adequate system is $400"
Well, in that case you should definitely get a DuraAce Ten
conversion to solve your gear shifting problem.
After all, it's the only adequate system
David Damerell
>"The dynamo is not $400 , the only adequate system is $400"
>Well, in that case you should definitely get a DuraAce Ten
>conversion to solve your gear shifting problem.
>After all, it's the only adequate system
Come, come now; you're neglecting the possibility of a Rohloff coupled
with a Schlumpf Speed Drive.
Rick Onanian
<dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>"The dynamo is not $400 , the only adequate system is $400"
>>Well, in that case you should definitely get a DuraAce Ten
>>conversion to solve your gear shifting problem.
>>After all, it's the only adequate system
>
>Come, come now; you're neglecting the possibility of a Rohloff coupled
>with a Schlumpf Speed Drive.
It's not adequate until you combine the two systems.
--
Rick Onanian
Steven M. Scharf
>I have to agree that at $1400 or so (with that 10% discount) the
>Romulus is an excellent buy. However, you it comes with Shimano
>bar-end shifters. Since the Romulus comes with Shimano 105
>derailleurs, like Andy Muzi said, conversion to shimano dt shifters
>should be around $30 or so for parts. If you want to convert to
>Shimano 105 STI shifters, expect to pay $130-150 for just the STI
>shifters.
You're correct. I should have been more explicit that the $150 was for the
brifters.
Of course David knew that the $150 referred to the brifters, not the DT
shifters. He was being a smart-ass (for a change).
Steve
http://www.bicyclelighting.com
http://www.commutebike.com
Steven M. Scharf
Actually I looked into the Schlumpf drive for my Brompton folders, but it
costs more than the Bromptons, literally.
David Damerell
>brifters.
No, that still won't wash;
"To change to brifters or downtube shifters would add $100-150"
These $100 DT shifters are just as bogus.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Tom Sherman
> ...
>>Come, come now; you're neglecting the possibility of a Rohloff coupled
>>with a Schlumpf Speed Drive.
>
> It's not adequate until you combine the two systems.
I know at least four people who own recumbent trikes that have both a
Schlumpf 2-speed BB and a Rohloff hub.
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
Dan Chatten
I purchased a Specialized Sequoia Sport in 03 - $800. It is my first
bike and I love it. I put in over 2,000 miles in 03 without any
problems at all.
http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=6001&JServSessionIdroot=qb6i6lxaow.j27005
Good Luck and Happy Riding.
Dan