Cursive vs. Printing Handwriting
MJKNPETER
My son, in 2nd grade, has had the typical terrible TS handwriting when
printing. The school was actually pushing to get him to use a computer writer
but he didn't want to be different than the other kids. But amazingly, now
that he is learning cursive, his handwriting looks pretty good.
His teacher thinks it's becuase in cursive you keep the pencil to the
paper more, so less chance of having the writing "all over the place".
Anyway, anyone else encounter this? P{erhaps they should skip printing
entirely for TS kids and just get them into cursive right away if this is the
case.
Janice
rwpo...@vcu.edu
In article <199805010334...@ladder01.news.aol.com>#1/1,
looks juvinile. I have to think about what letters I am trying to make and
some times I can't think fast enough to remember before I am actually at the
point of writing it (and even when I have the time I still get "S" and "G"
mixed up, I wonder if it has anything to do with the problem I have trying to
tie or untangle knots). I imagine this would change with practice but I
think my cursive handwriting would still look forced.
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Irina Shoushounova
MJKNPETER (mjkn...@aol.com) writes:
> My son, in 2nd grade, has had the typical terrible TS handwriting when
> printing. The school was actually pushing to get him to use a computer writer
> but he didn't want to be different than the other kids. But amazingly, now
> that he is learning cursive, his handwriting looks pretty good.
> His teacher thinks it's becuase in cursive you keep the pencil to the
> paper more, so less chance of having the writing "all over the place".
> Anyway, anyone else encounter this? P{erhaps they should skip printing
> entirely for TS kids and just get them into cursive right away if this is the
> case.
>
> Janice
Dear Janice:
I have never heard of this before;"TS writing", and my oldest kids(ages
7 and 8) have both printed since they were 3-4 years old (and learned to
read at 3 as well) as we homeschool them.
I found the oldest(boy) always had neat printing(even though I was
always under the impression boys typically had sloppy printing) but the
girl always had problems, including doing her letters backwards, and
mixing up "b" with "d" for instance, but she also has ADD(and is psychotic
as well and also not too "bright") and I did sort of connect it with that;
it always made me wonder as she isn't co-ordinated at all...
As for the cursive, the boy started off with a little trouble, and kept
forgetting how the letters looked and hated the wretched writing...but we
practiced every day and he eventually got the hang of it(and even
surprised himself, astounded he could finally do it; almost as if he found
out he could fly, or something!!) and now he writes very nicely!!
As for the girl however, I don't know if she'll be able to write(we
might just have to stick to printing, which she still does sloppy and
wiggly even after3-4 years of doing it) as she doesn't have the motor
co-ordination it takes to do the more "graceful" loops of written script...
It was interesting to hear this may be typical in TS however.
Irina, mother of 7.
--
******* IRINA SHOUSHOUNOVA bo693 or Lov...@ottawa.com *******
Happiness and blessing are the reward of
those who accept the Gospel and the Saviour.
******** Home Page: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bo693 ********
lpa...@nassau.cv.net
> printing. The school was actually pushing to get him to use a computer
writer
> but he didn't want to be different than the other kids. But amazingly, now
> that he is learning cursive, his handwriting looks pretty good.
> His teacher thinks it's becuase in cursive you keep the pencil to the
> paper more, so less chance of having the writing "all over the place".
> Anyway, anyone else encounter this? P{erhaps they should skip printing
> entirely for TS kids and just get them into cursive right away if this is
the
> case.
>
> Janice
>
Hi Janice,
I had exactly the same thing with my son -- that he did better in cursive
than with printing and for the reason your son's teacher suggested. His
father, OTOH, can't write in cursive and can only print neatly.
IOW and IME, there's no one solution for everyone who has TS+ and
"handwriting" problems. I do encourage the schools to get an occupational
therapist in to evaluate the child and to make some recommendations on the
alternatives. The OT can do a test of sentence writing which will give some
measure of how *functional* the child's handwriting is likely to be --
because if it's very slow, then even if neat and regardless of printing or
cursive, the child may be unlikely to be able to keep up with demands for
dictation, recording, etc. That doesn't mean that a keyboard is the answer,
though, as some kids will have problems with that.
One size does not fit all. <g>
Glad you found a solution for your son, though!
Leslie
Tom Benedict
I had the opposite problem. My printing is... tolerable, my cursive
is HORRID, but block-lettering works great.
When I took drafting in high school, I learned how to do
block-lettering, among other things. It's this painfully slow way of
printing that's used on shop drawings, but since it's closer to
drawing than writing, I can do really neat block-lettering. But take
notes that way? UGH! I can probably letter at 3-5 WPM, write about
10-15 WPM, and type at 95+. (Which one do YOU think I'd rather do? ;) )
Tom
Fenisz
>
>My son, in 2nd grade, has had the typical terrible TS handwriting when
>printing. The school was actually pushing to get him to use a computer
>writer
>but he didn't want to be different than the other kids. But amazingly, now
>that he is learning cursive, his handwriting looks pretty good.
> His teacher thinks it's becuase in cursive you keep the pencil to the
>paper more, so less chance of having the writing "all over the place".
> Anyway, anyone else encounter this? P{erhaps they should skip printing
>entirely for TS kids and just get them into cursive right away if this is the
>case.
I turned to printing in my freshman year in college because my handwriting had
deteriorated to the point where I could not read my notes. I had my first
complex, motor tics and the onset of Tourette in my Freshman year.
Ironically, I had won a handwriting award in 4th grade for my neat handwriting.
I could finally relate to what had happened to my handwriting when I read
"Tourette Syndrome and Human Behavior" and saw a sample of one child's
handwriting before and after the onset of TS. There were a lot of things that
really made sense after I read Cummings' book. I also saw someone who carved
on his arm like I did when I was a child. Cummings also mentioned a certain
bounce that some people had in their walk that is some form of tic.
BTW, I love the computer and word processing. It enables me to organize my
thoughts and create a neat report. I am back in college now and have very
little trouble writing papers. I used to get so terribly frustrated when my
writing came out so sloppy.
Fred in denver
Linda
> Dear Janice:
> I have never heard of this before;"TS writing", and my oldest kids(ages
> 7 and 8) have both printed since they were 3-4 years old (and learned to
> read at 3 as well) as we homeschool them.
>
> It was interesting to hear this may be typical in TS however.
>
> Irina, mother of 7.
>
My 10 year old son was able to write neatly when he was in kindergarten but now it's
just a mess. He overwrites his letters until they're black & huge then rubs them out
& starts again. Maybe this is a tic too. Education authority refused to fund a
laptop & the school makes him copy it out again. It amazes me he still likes school.
Linda
Kathryn Taubert
IOW and IME, there's no one solution for everyone who has TS+ and
>"handwriting" problems.
Ditto. In my case, it was/is ALL difficult. It really doesn't matter
whether it's printing or writing. I can start off either one neatly, and
end up with something illegible to everyone but.....well....to everyone...
Kathryn Taubert
>I turned to printing in my freshman year in college because my
handwriting had
>deteriorated to the point where I could not read my notes.
Fred, I used to take GREAT notes...but only because I transcribed them
TWICE. Can you imagine this now? I'd scribble them as fast as I could in
class, and then when I got home, RE DO them so I could read them later. I
had people wanting to borrow them to study. They didn't realize the PAIN
it took to get them that way. The GOOD news is that in having to do this,
I learned the material very well. The BAD news was that I had a lot of
writer's cramp, and spent too $%^& much time writing when I'd rather have
spent it doin' somethin' else.
KAT in CT
Kathryn Taubert
>My 10 year old son was able to write neatly when he was in kindergarten
but now it's
>just a mess. He overwrites his letters until they're black & huge then
rubs them out
>& starts again. Maybe this is a tic too. Education authority refused to
fund a
>laptop & the school makes him copy it out again.
I have a problem with the authority refusing his laptop. Leslie may have
ideas here?
It amazes me he still likes school.
>
Yeah, me too. Bless his heart, he sounds like a good kid in spite of the
frustrations he's up against. Ain't easy in this world for a kid.
KAT in CT
>
BlessedBy2
>
>I have a problem with the authority refusing his laptop. Leslie may have
>ideas here?
Really, Leslie ... I've just heard this too many times. Can't we get a
general, informational post that we can pass around (on other forums as well)
explaining the right/need for a child with TS to use a laptop and how parents
can go about making it happen ?? No, that won't take much work, will it <g>
<g> ... :-))
rwpo...@vcu.edu
In article <6icsib$oe0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>#1/1,
lpa...@nassau.cv.net wrote:
>
> I had exactly the same thing with my son -- that he did better in cursive
> than with printing and for the reason your son's teacher suggested. His
> father, OTOH, can't write in cursive and can only print neatly.
>
that be right or left?)
rwpo...@vcu.edu
In article <199805020318...@ladder03.news.aol.com>#1/1,
fen...@aol.com (Fenisz) wrote:
>
> Cummings also mentioned a certain
> bounce that some people had in their walk that is some form of tic.
What??? That's a tic too?? Isn't there anything that IS NOT a tic??
Vicki Hill
On Fri, 01 May 1998 11:17:15 -0600, lpa...@nassau.cv.net wrote:
>IOW and IME, there's no one solution for everyone who has TS+ and
>"handwriting" problems.
>Leslie
I totally agree, Leslie. At the beginning of fourth grade, the special
ed teachers started having my son with TS+ work through the
handwriting worksheets that are common in late first/early second
grade. He did just one sheet per day, gradually 're-learning' the
movements for making all the letters. It really helped. His cursive
isn't great, but it isn't as physically trying on him as it was before
the 're-learning'. If you think of the handwriting problem as possibly
being a learning 'delay', it does make sense to try re-teaching it
again at a slightly older age.
I realize this won't work for everyone - but it is an option to
consider. My son still prefers the keyboard - that is fine with me,
and the school allows him to use whichever he prefers. But being able
to take a few notes, or handwrite a few sentences, is an important
skill for anyone.
Vicki H.
Kathryn Taubert
My son still prefers the keyboard - that is fine with me,
>and the school allows him to use whichever he prefers.
good school, that. I'll just bet that Mom had something to do with that,
too, didn't she?
:-))
KAT in CT
Judith Simon
mjkn...@aol.com (MJKNPETER) wrote:
>My son, in 2nd grade, has had the typical terrible TS handwriting when
>printing. The school was actually pushing to get him to use a computer writer
>but he didn't want to be different than the other kids. But amazingly, now
>that he is learning cursive, his handwriting looks pretty good.
> His teacher thinks it's becuase in cursive you keep the pencil to the
>paper more, so less chance of having the writing "all over the place".
> Anyway, anyone else encounter this? P{erhaps they should skip printing
>entirely for TS kids and just get them into cursive right away if this is the
>case.
>Janice
I don't think we can generalize, here. My son with TS can print,
albeit barely legibly, but cannot write in cursive at all; his father
and brother, neither of whom have TS, but probably do have some shadow
syndrome (very mild OCD and Aspergers) cannot write in cursive at all
either; they both print when they are not using the computer. Judy
Vicki Hill
On 3 May 1998 13:16:09 GMT, BWH...@prodigy.com (Kathryn Taubert)
wrote:
>KAT in CT
Actually, no Kat, I didn't. I can truthfully say that the teachers and
the school district specialists have been WONDERFUL. I've heard many
horror stories about school from parents with TS children; I feel
incredibly lucky to have such a good team working with us in the
public schools. : - )
Vicki H.
Haggis Reg
>> Cummings also mentioned a certain
>> bounce that some people had in their walk that is some form of tic.
>
>What??? That's a tic too?? Isn't there anything that IS NOT a tic??
I guess that's what TS REALLY stands for: TIGGER SYNDROME!!!
(Oh, the wonderful thing about Tiggers...)
-Haggis Regina Who Hopes That Nobody Pooh Poohs' The Idea
rwpo...@vcu.edu
In article <199805042325...@ladder01.news.aol.com>#1/1,
clump,clump... clump,clump... clump,clump...?
(I only bounce now when I'm happier which hasn't been very often for a long
time now.)
Haggis Reg
>So does that mean you bounce too? Do you go down stairs: clump,clump...
>clump,clump... clump,clump... clump,clump...?
Only if Wren is home...
>(I only bounce now when I'm happier which hasn't been very often for a long
>time now.)
Poor Reporter - Has somebody been dragging you "clump, clump, clump"
Down the stairs...?
-Haggis Regina Who cares
Madeleine Lapointe-Millar
> > Dear Janice:
> > I have never heard of this before;"TS writing", and my oldest
kids(ages
Our Canadian newsletter had an article this month on Handwriting problems
in TS.
It was a bittersweet thing to read it. I felt validated in my struggles
with the Schools and sad for my kids.
My writing was a bit of a struggle and never very neat, but my husband
still prints, because his writing is unintelligible otherwise. Both
children have had trouble. My daughter was reading at age 3 and writing,
but not well. Things got worse for her the higher up she got. I fought to
have them limit cursive to a small part of the day as an exercise (variable
success even now). My son has lived in a nightmare because of the attitude
towards his writing! They would make him write and re-write to the
exclusion of all else!!! (what a backwards and asinine attitude!!!!). He
has OCD also and that makes him reluctant to 'touch' the keyboard too, but
he does better nevertheless.
The only improvement we ever got was through testing for mold and foods and
neutralizing serum. He can write well but slowly when he gets his drops
(when we can afford to get them (Our government Health insurance caved in
to the traditional doctors on this one and haven't come around yet.),
All in all, I have seen and heard so much regarding handwriting in TS that
I believe it to be neurological (not insurmountable, just difficult) like
any learning disability, and tell my children often that they are not
'stupid' or ..., they just have a problem like their friend who doesn't
grow, or can't walk well or....
If only this were better understood, especially by the schools and staff!!
Then they could stop punishing and belittling and start helping!!!!!!
Madeleine (in Ontario)
Kathryn Taubert
>All in all, I have seen and heard so much regarding handwriting in TS
that
>I believe it to be neurological (not insurmountable, just difficult)
like
>any learning disability, and tell my children often that they are not
>'stupid' or ..., they just have a problem like their friend who doesn't
>grow, or can't walk well or....
You are correct, M. "Dysgraphia" is not uncommon in those of us with TS,
as you 've no doubt noted from some of our "serious" discussions on the
issue here "-))
I have had this problem all my life, and since the advent of the keyboard,
have realized just how much of a problem it was for me. One doesn't
always notice a different until one knows what the alternative is. In
this case, the alternative, the keyboard, is indescribably liberating for
me, having struggled with handwriting problems all my life. I did okay in
spite of it, but the labor involved was really, at times, just too darned
much trouble.
It's kind of like going from a slide rule to a calculator. A model T to a
Porsche. The difference is so dramatic to me personally, that I rarely
"write" anymore unless I absolutely have to. And then, it's only brief
notes, lists, etc.
KAT In CT
rwpo...@vcu.edu
In article <01bd793c$49775d40$402367d1@milisabelle>,
"Madeleine Lapointe-Millar" <milis...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
> My writing was a bit of a struggle and never very neat, but my husband
> still prints, because his writing is unintelligible otherwise. Both
> children have had trouble.
It ain't cursive if you don't swear while writing or trying to read it!
Dagoobster
>Poor Reporter - Has somebody been dragging you "clump, clump, clump"
>Down the stairs...?
Its slinkey!!!!!!!!
__________________________________________________________________________
I have met my Faye and destiny!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chaim
Haggis Reg
In article <199805082047...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
dagoo...@aol.com (Dagoobster) writes:
>>Poor Reporter - Has somebody been dragging you "clump, clump, clump"
>>Down the stairs...?
>
>Its slinkey!!!!!!!!
Yes I KNOW it's slinkey - NOBODY should drag Reporter!!
-Haggis Regina Who Is Sympathetic
rwpo...@vcu.edu
In article <199805082047...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
dagoo...@aol.com (Dagoobster) wrote:
>
> >Poor Reporter - Has somebody been dragging you "clump, clump, clump"
> >Down the stairs...?
>
> Its slinkey!!!!!!!!
Oh, if only... more like Cinderella's step mom... and today I finally
confirmed the fact that... hmmm... never know who may be reading... um... I
confirmed the fact that I work with people who believe in doing things the
exact opposite of what I learned in school. I think I will have to quit my
job (it's a major difference of opinion, for example it's supposed to be wrong
to document anything because you should be able to figure things out for
yourself, and on a display screen it's ok to present a date as 05/08/98 but to
present a date as 05/08/00 for the year 2000 is obviously wrong and anyone can
see why, it's because you should never have 00 for a year <sorry, but I
can't see the logic and consistency, it looks to arbitrary to me>... and a
number of other things including what appears to be an attitude that I am
incapable of doing my job) I may end up disappearing from the group for a
while due to a lack of an internet provider and a modem. I anticipate that
life will get better after a while, I just need to get some things done.
(So if suddenly you don't hear from me for a while, it's not from lack of
interest)