Yes or No? Automatically update document styles

[John Faughnan]

I know to disable Word's evil default behavior of updating a style
whenever one (foolishly) applies direct formatting to styled text.

However, in Tools|Templates and Add-Ins there's a checkbox for
"Automatically update document styles". The (very limited) help states
this will cause a document to update its local styles and formatting
whenever a style is changed in its root template (update occurs when
document is opened).

In some ways this is analogous to how things work with CSS and web
pages (though I have a vastly better understanding of CSS than of Word
styles).

In general I like this, assuming I can get my templates and styles
configured corectly. I fear however that it might have some untoward
consequences.

I've located relatively few postings and discussions of this. Can
someone point me to the right reference? (I found little in Word
2000's help files.)

Thanks!

john

john faughnan
jfau...@spamcop.net
www.faughnan.com/msword.html

[meta: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, Microsoft Word 2000, formatting,
templates, style sheets]

[Kenneda]

Hi John,

That's a good question. I think the answer depends on consideration of the
document content, template type (is it a form or a shipped template), and
number of users involved and their user level, the location of the
template--and maybe other things.

I am aware of it being used very successfully with read-only,
admin-maintained network templates--like forms.

I think it could be a big headache to use in Normal.Dot. I think it might be
a headache for files that are shared with others--where they would have the
same template as you, but perhaps they have modified their styles on that
template. When they open your document and the styles from *their* template
are applied, then your document would not look as it was intended.

I have seen instances where a macro was added to a custom toolbar to Update
Styles from the template. (The macro goes to the dialog, enables the
update, closes, then goes back in and disables it again. The styles are
then updated with the user's knowledge, and the setting has been returned to
non-update.)

I am interested to see the thoughts of others.

Eileen :)

"John Faughnan" <jfau...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:5c0dbfb4.02021...@posting.google.com...

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Where it seems to cause the most havoc is in bullets and numbering.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Kenneda" <ken...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:IUUb8.50060$7C3.3314712775@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...

[Jack Mills]

Suzanne,

I missed the announcement that Fairhope was moved to Alabama from Alaska
(see your signature below). Are you organizing a town-warming party?
Please let me know the date so that I can clear my calendar.

Best wishes from a Barnhill Booster!

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbar...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ePVYkCAuBHA.2052@tkmsftngp07...

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It's always been in Alabama. I did change my sig from "AL" to "Alabama"
because (a) non USAians can't be expected to know what AL stands for and (b)
even most USAians (you, too?) tend to read "Fairhope, Alabama" as
"Fairbanks, Alaska."

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Jack Mills" <GIS...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uiurfMCuBHA.2428@tkmsftngp03...

[John McGhie [MVP]]

Hi John:

"No!" A documentation professional "might" run with it switched on.
Everyone else should switch it off and leave it off.

Its effect is not like "Cascading Style Sheets" (you can only have one) its
effect is to notionally make the style sheet external to the document so it
can be independently maintained.

Note that if you use it, the style updates are applied only if the document
is opened ion Word. So if you change the style sheet for a document you are
using in another program, the change will not promulgate until you open the
document in Word.

However, Automatically update Styles has the effect of setting all your
numbered lists to "1" every time you open the document. If you don't
understand this and update a document to put its numbering "right", and you
save the change back to the template, every document in the shop will now
open with every numbered list starting at "23". This could be viewed as an
unwanted side-effect!

So except in the most rigorously-organised professional word factories,
where they do not use Word's built-in list template numbering, this checkbox
should be OFF and remain OFF.

In other words, this is a very long winded way of saying "This feature is
phucked! It has been broken since Word 97 and must always be disabled to
obtain predictable results."

Hope this helps

On 18/2/02 7:41 AM, in article
5c0dbfb4.02021...@posting.google.com, "John Faughnan"
<jfau...@spamcop.net> wrote:

--
Please post replies to the newsgroup to maintain the thread.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP: Word for Macintosh and Word for Windows
Consultant Technical Writer
<jo...@mcghie-information.com.au>
+61 4 1209 1410; Sydney, Australia: GMT + 10 hrs

[Jack Mills]

Me too. Thanks.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbar...@mvps.org> wrote in message

news:uIVLauDuBHA.2652@tkmsftngp03...

[Alan Taylor]

Hi John:

I vote also for "No", though after John M.'s answer
there's little to add.

We were instructed, at one workplace, to routinely check
Every document to make sure that setting was off.

>.
>

[John Faughnan]

> <jfau...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > However, in Tools|Templates and Add-Ins there's a checkbox for
> > "Automatically update document styles".

"John McGhie [MVP]" <jo...@mcghie-information.com.au> wrote in message news:<B896CDC1.F99C%jo...@mcghie-information.com.au>...

> "No!" A documentation professional "might" run with it switched on.

> Everyone else should switch it off and leave it off....
> ... In other words, this is a very long winded way of saying "This feature is

> phucked! It has been broken since Word 97 and must always be disabled to
> obtain predictable results."

Well, that's pretty clear! I'll be sure it's unchecked. I did note the
interesting comment from Eileen:

"I have seen instances where a macro was added to a custom toolbar to
Update
Styles from the template. (The macro goes to the dialog, enables the
update, closes, then goes back in and disables it again. The styles
are
then updated with the user's knowledge, and the setting has been
returned to
non-update.)"

That sounds like it might be a worthwhile approach to manually trigger
the update process, and probably the only safe way to use this
"feature" (which is really just another World trap for the unwary).

The only other way I know of to update a document's styles is to copy
them using the Organizer. I suppose that could be automated too? I
keep my styles in a special template and then copy them as needed to
other document templates, but the styles template is the source of
"style truth".

Thanks!

john

john faughnan
jfau...@spamcop.net
www.faughnan.com/msword.html

[meta: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, Microsoft Word 2000, formatting,

templates, CSS, cascading style sheets, style updates]

[Charles Kenyon]

I have such a stylesheet loaded as a global template with a toolbar command
and macro to copy certain of that template's styles to the current document,
overwriting existing styles. Works well. Note that my template's styles are
not built-in styles but they could be.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
<URL: http://addbalance.com/word/index.htm>

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide)
<URL: http://addbalance.com/usersguide/index.htm>

See also the MVP FAQ: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/> which is awesome!
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"John Faughnan" <jfau...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:5c0dbfb4.02021...@posting.google.com...

[John McGhie [MVP]]

Hi John:

This responds to article <5c0dbfb4.02021...@posting.google.com>,
from "John Faughnan" <jfau...@spamcop.net> on 19/2/02 7:03 AM:

> I did note the
> interesting comment from Eileen:
>
> "I have seen instances where a macro was added to a custom toolbar to
> Update
> Styles from the template.

Yes, I have built such macros. To be safe though, they must NOT use the
"Automatically Update Styles" mechanism (the activedocument.styles.update
method in VBA).

Instead, they must use the VBA OrganizerCopy method. Organiser copy can
copy styles from a nominated template, but only one by one when used from
VBA.

However, you must provide a list of styles carefully crafted to ensure that
it does not include any that have numbering applied as part of their style
definition, otherwise you break the numbering in any document you run the
macro on. (Or you use the update method and then throw up a dialogue
warning the user "All styles and numbering have been reset: please examine
the document carefully and correct the numbered lists.")

There's swings and round-abouts in each approach. If you use Update, you
update all styles in the document, but you don't remove any, so if the
previous authors have been using the wrong style names, their damage
remains. And you bugger any list numbering.

Organiser copy has the same restriction, except that you can program it to
leave your numbered styles alone. If you do, you will not update the
numbered styles. If you don't, you will bugger the numbering. And if you
do use Organiser copy on numbered styles, we have found that you have to
perform the copy twice for each numbered style: once to bring in the style,
a second time to bring in the associated numbering format.

Totally confused now?

Cheers

(The macro goes to the dialog, enables the
> update, closes, then goes back in and disables it again. The styles
> are
> then updated with the user's knowledge, and the setting has been
> returned to
> non-update.)"
>
> That sounds like it might be a worthwhile approach to manually trigger
> the update process, and probably the only safe way to use this
> "feature" (which is really just another World trap for the unwary).
>
> The only other way I know of to update a document's styles is to copy
> them using the Organizer. I suppose that could be automated too? I
> keep my styles in a special template and then copy them as needed to
> other document templates, but the styles template is the source of
> "style truth".
>
> Thanks!
>
> john
>
> john faughnan
> jfau...@spamcop.net
> www.faughnan.com/msword.html
>
> [meta: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, Microsoft Word 2000, formatting,
> templates, CSS, cascading style sheets, style updates]

--