To digitalize vhs tapes
MatFox
I would like to digitalize my collection of live vhs tapes, so I need
some advice from those of you who have a direct experience with doing
it.
- Which hardware piece (possibly firewire) would you recommend to import
from my VCR to my iMac 700Combo? (not too expensive, I am working at
consumer level, not broadcast of course).
- Which software should I use to 'record' the tape?
- Which file will I then get? If such file would end up being very
large, how could I compress it?
Any tutorial I could pick from the web is fine as well.
If I will then put the resulting file onto VCD (with Toast 5.2.1), could
I insert some markers, to have the possibility to view it by chapters?
Peter Lee
I haven't tried it, but can't you just record it onto a DV camcorder,
then use iMovie to edit/export it?
I'm sure you could borrow/rent a camcorder for the day or 2 it'd take...
--
This email address is never read.
To reply, use peteraleeatmacdotcom
MatFox
>
> I haven't tried it, but can't you just record it onto a DV camcorder,
> then use iMovie to edit/export it?
> I'm sure you could borrow/rent a camcorder for the day or 2 it'd take...
digitalizing... I need all the details before even thinking of really
doing it...
Elliott Roper
<Matteo...@excite.it> wrote:
If you use a DV camcorder either as converter or using DV tape an an
intermediate stage, you will get compressed output (DV is compressed
about 5:1 from raw video) The resulting file won't compress any further
without reduction in quality and/or image size and is very time
consuming.
VCD is such a format. It is even worse than VHS.
check out
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/vcd especially the table at the bottom of the
page.
30 hours of DV is 390GB. Expect to take order of 10 hours per hour for
compression to VCD depending on the speed of your Mac, plus the hassle
of burning the CDs (one CD per hour of VHS) In VCD format 30 hours will
occupy about 16GB on disk.
Faced with the same problem, I'd leg it to Dixons or Ebay, pick up a
cheapo DVD recorder and do it all in hardware. The cost of the recorder
and the DVDs will be less than the DV converter, the time, the encoding
software and the disk space. The pictures and sound will be just as bad
as the VHS, instead of smaller and worse looking.
Steve Lidie
Goodness gracious, goto the Apple iMovie page apple.com/imovie.
Then check these archives - I detailed exactly what to doa month or so ago.
MatFox
> Then check these archives - I detailed exactly what to doa month or so ago.
Sorry, I am very new here, and not even english mother-tongue...
MatFox
> Faced with the same problem, I'd leg it to Dixons or Ebay, pick up a
> cheapo DVD recorder and do it all in hardware. The cost of the recorder
> and the DVDs will be less than the DV converter, the time, the encoding
> software and the disk space. The pictures and sound will be just as bad
> as the VHS, instead of smaller and worse looking.
That's a pretty smart suggestion, txs a lot!
Jay Maynard
>I would like to digitalize my collection of live vhs tapes, so I need
>some advice from those of you who have a direct experience with doing
>it.
I'm in the middle of doing just that.
>- Which hardware piece (possibly firewire) would you recommend to import
>from my VCR to my iMac 700Combo? (not too expensive, I am working at
>consumer level, not broadcast of course).
I use a Canopus ADVC-100 DV converter box. It was $299; there's now a
cheaper version, the ADVC-50, but I don't know what the differences are.
>- Which software should I use to 'record' the tape?
iMovie will do it.
>- Which file will I then get? If such file would end up being very
>large, how could I compress it?
You'll wind up with a DV file on disk that won't compress much more.
>If I will then put the resulting file onto VCD (with Toast 5.2.1), could
>I insert some markers, to have the possibility to view it by chapters?
Dunno what Toast wants as input for such things. If you want to do this on
DVD, you'll need Final Cut (I know Pro will do it; will Express?) and DVD
Studio Pro. Of course, you'd also need to upgrade to a DVD-R drive.
I wound up deciding to go to DVD-R; I'm getting 110 minutes of program plus
menus and such on a single DVD, at a 5 MBPS encoding rate. It takes me about
16 hours to do those 110 minutes (5 episodes of the cartoons I'm
digitizing). I think you'll be disappointed with VCD's quality. If you think
VHS is mediocre, just wait till you MPEG-encode it for writing to VCD.
Dave
30 hours of content will consume a *lot* of your time, best to have it done
by someone who really knows thier stuff, and you get the quality you pay
for.
We have some old beta lying around (about 20 hours) and had it converted to
VHS by a bureau - excellent.
Of course, if you have the time to spend, then the other posters have ideas
for you!
--
Dave::RDZSPP...@spammotel.com
"The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed." William Gibson
MatFox
>
> I use a Canopus ADVC-100 DV converter box. It was $299; there's now a
> cheaper version, the ADVC-50, but I don't know what the differences are.
I have heard of both Canopus models; I think 50 in like a PCI, 100 is
external, firewire connection.
> You'll wind up with a DV file on disk that won't compress much more.
Ah, ok! How many MB per minute, on average?
> Dunno what Toast wants as input for such things.
.mpg1 for VCD
If you want to do this on
> DVD, you'll need Final Cut (I know Pro will do it; will Express?) and DVD
> Studio Pro. Of course, you'd also need to upgrade to a DVD-R drive.
yes, that's why I am thinking to leave them as files, maybe compressed
as much as possible, but not VCD-ed nor DVD-ed
>
> I wound up deciding to go to DVD-R; I'm getting 110 minutes of program plus
> menus and such on a single DVD, at a 5 MBPS encoding rate. It takes me about
> 16 hours to do those 110 minutes (5 episodes of the cartoons I'm
> digitizing).
So you had to buy an external DVD-R burner?
And you used iDVD?
I think you'll be disappointed with VCD's quality. If you think
> VHS is mediocre, just wait till you MPEG-encode it for writing to VCD.
Some vhs tapes are great quality, but I wanted to put them onto computer
files, to share them with friends maybe.
Peter Ceresole
"Dave" <RDZSPP...@spammotel.com> wrote:
>We have some old beta lying around (about 20 hours) and had it converted to
>VHS by a bureau - excellent.
Beta to VHS is usually pretty good, because VHS is usually so bloody awful
and beta is so wonderful that it looks like the VHS is a camera original.
But VHS on DVD will preserve every horrid artfact in aspic. Further
degradation to VCD would be unwatchable...
--
Peter
Jay Maynard
>Jay Maynard <jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx> wrote:
>> I use a Canopus ADVC-100 DV converter box. It was $299; there's now a
>> cheaper version, the ADVC-50, but I don't know what the differences are.
>I have heard of both Canopus models; I think 50 in like a PCI, 100 is
>external, firewire connection.
I just looked...the ADVC-50 can be used as a standalone box, if you install
it in an external disk drive enclosure. That's probably what you'd have to
do with your iMac.
>> You'll wind up with a DV file on disk that won't compress much more.
>Ah, ok! How many MB per minute, on average?
22 minutes of program in raw DV form take up about 4.5 GB. I was wrong; when
MPEG-2 encoded for DVD use, that shrinks to 1 GB or so at 5 MB/second data
rate.
>> Dunno what Toast wants as input for such things.
>.mpg1 for VCD
I was referring to markers and such, not the actual video datastream.
>> If you want to do this on
>> DVD, you'll need Final Cut (I know Pro will do it; will Express?) and DVD
>> Studio Pro. Of course, you'd also need to upgrade to a DVD-R drive.
>yes, that's why I am thinking to leave them as files, maybe compressed
>as much as possible, but not VCD-ed nor DVD-ed
If you're going to play them on your computer only (and not in a consumer
device, as you could with VCD and DVD-R), then you're not limited to MPEG-1
or -2. Unfortunately, while there's an MPEG-4 decoder for MacOS, there's not
a production release of an encoder. (Poke around http://www.divx.com for
details; there's a bets version of the pro encoder, which is limited to 15
days' trial use.)
>> I wound up deciding to go to DVD-R; I'm getting 110 minutes of program plus
>> menus and such on a single DVD, at a 5 MBPS encoding rate. It takes me about
>> 16 hours to do those 110 minutes (5 episodes of the cartoons I'm
>> digitizing).
>So you had to buy an external DVD-R burner?
No, I have an i/Mac G4/800 with SuperDrive.
>And you used iDVD?
No, I use DVD Studio Pro. iDVD has only limited menuing, which mainly means
for your use that it does not allow chapter marking. You can only have menu
selections that play video clips from the beginning.
>> I think you'll be disappointed with VCD's quality. If you think
>> VHS is mediocre, just wait till you MPEG-encode it for writing to VCD.
>Some vhs tapes are great quality, but I wanted to put them onto computer
>files, to share them with friends maybe.
Even good quality VHS will suck after converting to VCD.
MatFox
> I just looked...the ADVC-50 can be used as a standalone box, if you install
> it in an external disk drive enclosure. That's probably what you'd have to
> do with your iMac.
I don't think I am able to do it; I will end up with the 100,
probably...
> 22 minutes of program in raw DV form take up about 4.5 GB. I was wrong; when
> MPEG-2 encoded for DVD use, that shrinks to 1 GB or so at 5 MB/second data
> rate.
Ok, so basically one minute of a .dv file is about 200MB?
>
> If you're going to play them on your computer only (and not in a consumer
> device, as you could with VCD and DVD-R), then you're not limited to MPEG-1
> or -2. Unfortunately, while there's an MPEG-4 decoder for MacOS, there's not
> a production release of an encoder. (Poke around http://www.divx.com for
> details; there's a bets version of the pro encoder, which is limited to 15
> days' trial use.)
Ok.
> No, I use DVD Studio Pro. iDVD has only limited menuing, which mainly means
> for your use that it does not allow chapter marking. You can only have menu
> selections that play video clips from the beginning.
Ok.
> Even good quality VHS will suck after converting to VCD.
Ah! That's good a ponit you are making!
Txs a lot for your very detailed answers, I don't know if it's worth it
to do such a huge work... maybe, as someone already suggested, I should
just copy the vhs tapes onto DVD-R discs using a DVD recorder...
But then I would have another problem: how to make copies of such
DVDs...
Bah...! I really don't know what to do! :-(((
Jay Maynard
>> 22 minutes of program in raw DV form take up about 4.5 GB. I was wrong; when
>> MPEG-2 encoded for DVD use, that shrinks to 1 GB or so at 5 MB/second data
>> rate.
>Ok, so basically one minute of a .dv file is about 200MB?
Probably. That will vary somewhat with the nature of the program material.
It might well be that my cartoon video is actually larger than live action
would be, since it's got sharp edges - which do not compress well with the
usual video compression techniques.
>Txs a lot for your very detailed answers, I don't know if it's worth it
>to do such a huge work... maybe, as someone already suggested, I should
>just copy the vhs tapes onto DVD-R discs using a DVD recorder...
If you don't want to do much beyond transferring the video, that might well
be the best answer. I don't know how much control they give you over the
finished product, but that may or may not be important to you.
>But then I would have another problem: how to make copies of such
>DVDs...
Well, if you got a SuperDrive, you could copy the DVDs without additional
software. (Just use OS X's Disk Copy utility.)
>Bah...! I really don't know what to do! :-(((
Decide what's important to you, and then proceed based on that.
Charles Martin
Matteo...@excite.it (MatFox) wrote:
> Hi!
Hi!
> - Which hardware piece (possibly firewire) would you recommend to import
> from my VCR to my iMac 700Combo? (not too expensive, I am working at
> consumer level, not broadcast of course).
I'm using the Hollywood DV Bridge (about $250) and it suits my needs,
but I hear the Canopus ADC (about the same cost) would be better. If I
were in the market, I would buy the latter.
> - Which software should I use to 'record' the tape?
iMovie will do just fine, though keep in mind that DV video (which is
what you will be converting to) is HUGE. As in 60 gigs an hour huge.
The finished product won't be that big of course, but for maximum
quality and ease of editing iMovie wants to work in DV format. I suggest
you get a large external FW (7200RPM) hard drive just for this purpose
if you're going to be doing this on a routine basis.
> - Which file will I then get? If such file would end up being very
> large, how could I compress it?
You don't until later.
> Any tutorial I could pick from the web is fine as well.
Here's a good one:
> If I will then put the resulting file onto VCD (with Toast 5.2.1), could
> I insert some markers, to have the possibility to view it by chapters?
No, not in the DVD sense. While editing the project in iMovie, you can
save segments as individual movies, and then when making the VCD, Toast
will treat each movie as it's own "chapter."
You might also want to do a Google search "SVCD Mac tutorial" and find
out how to make SVCDs. It's more complicated, but if you have toast and
are willing to learn, the quality is several orders of magnitude better.
--
Cheers,
_Chas_
http://www.apple.com/switch
non-spammers can write to chasm at mac (dot com)
MatFox
>
> Decide what's important to you, and then proceed based on that.
Txs a lot! Everything very clear!
MatFox
> You might also want to do a Google search "SVCD Mac tutorial" and find
> out how to make SVCDs. It's more complicated, but if you have toast and
> are willing to learn, the quality is several orders of magnitude better.
Txs a lot, I will definitely keep that in mind!
Kwan Yeoh
> Ok, so basically one minute of a .dv file is about 200MB?
Each minute of DV is about 220MB.
--
Please remove SpamMeNot to reply. I apologise for the necessary use
of this anti-spammation method.
Ian Cargill
Matteo...@excite.it (MatFox) wrote:
>
> > 22 minutes of program in raw DV form take up about 4.5 GB. I was wrong; when
> > MPEG-2 encoded for DVD use, that shrinks to 1 GB or so at 5 MB/second data
> > rate.
> Ok, so basically one minute of a .dv file is about 200MB?
I believe digital video uses up about 4.5MB per second - that's 270MB
per minute.
Ian
mojofilter
stuff *lol*
mojo
Jay Maynard
>In comp.sys.mac.misc MatFox <Matteo...@excite.it> wrote:
>> Jay Maynard <jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx> wrote:
>>> for your use that it does not allow chapter marking. You can only have menu
>>> selections that play video clips from the beginning.
>> Ok.
Oo. THey didn't have that in version 2 of those. That greatly drops the
price of building simple DVDs, then...
Steve Lidie
There are some bugs in iMovie3 - check the discussion boards - but
when they get fixed, it will be a really nice combination. In my case,
my 8mm analog camcorder had reached the end of its life, so I
purchased a Canon ZR-40, a digitial camera with pass through, which
accepts analog input (VHS VCR, 8mm camcorder, whatever) and spits out
digital video on the FireWire side for importing into iMovie. Then
iDVD does my buring. Works very well.
MatFox
> I hope you get it all copied.. I'm a mad Beatles fan so maybe we could trade
> stuff *lol*
No problem; for this matter write to me privately: fol...@jumpy.it
I am slowly getting - at least - a list together!
david
what do you use to encode?
most I've managed is 90min but the extra time would be great if I knew how
cheers
db
zoara
> > - Which software should I use to 'record' the tape?
>
> iMovie will do just fine, though keep in mind that DV video (which is
> what you will be converting to) is HUGE. As in 60 gigs an hour huge.
Much less - 14GB/hr. Still huge though.
-z-
--
"I'm not sure how useful this is, but it's bloody clever."
- Jonathon Sanderson in uk.comp.sys.mac
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting
Jay Maynard
the whole thing. Thanks.)
On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:55:50 +0100, david <dbee...@NOSPAMmacunlimited.net>
wrote:
>> I wound up deciding to go to DVD-R; I'm getting 110 minutes of program plus
>> menus and such on a single DVD, at a 5 MBPS encoding rate.
>what do you use to encode?
>most I've managed is 90min but the extra time would be great if I knew how
I use the supplied MPEG-2 encoder with QuickTime Pro. Open the movie in
QuickTime Player. Select Export, Movie to MPEG-2, then Options... and move
the Quality slider till you get 5.0 Mbps bitrate in the Info box. The
resulting video files, after the audio is AC-3 encoded with A.Pack, take up
right at 4 GB for 110 minutes. (I haven't tried leaving the audio as AIFF;
unfortunately, A.Pack only comes with DVD Studio Pro. I do recall that
they'll be bigger, but I can't tell you how much.) The discs I'm building
have 6 menus of a couple of meg each, so the result fits nicely on a disc.
Ray Fischer
> MatFox
>> Well, I have over 30 hours of Beatles/McCartney videos I am thinking of
>> digitalizing... I need all the details before even thinking of really
>> doing it...
>
>If you use a DV camcorder either as converter or using DV tape an an
>intermediate stage, you will get compressed output (DV is compressed
>about 5:1 from raw video) The resulting file won't compress any further
>without reduction in quality and/or image size and is very time
>consuming.
The above is almost completely wrong. While DV does have some
"compression", it is not a 5:1 compression and it most certainly can
be compressed a hell of a lot more. For example, one hour of DV uses
12GB of disk space but is compressed to just 4GB on a DVD. Compressing
it for a VCD reduces the 12GB to just 600MB - a 20:1 compression.
What DV does is split up the video stream into its components -
brightness, color, and saturation, and then discards the color and
saturation information for three of every four pixels. Professional
digital video equipment retains all the information and so needs twice
the bandwidth and twice the storage.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>I would like to digitalize my collection of live vhs tapes, so I need
>some advice from those of you who have a direct experience with doing
>it.
>
>from my VCR to my iMac 700Combo? (not too expensive, I am working at
>consumer level, not broadcast of course).
Since I was looking to upgrade and older VHS-C camcorder I bought a
new digital video camcorder (for the same price I paid for the VHS-C
camcorder) and use it to do the conversion.
>- Which software should I use to 'record' the tape?
iMovie is free and is a good start.
>- Which file will I then get? If such file would end up being very
>large, how could I compress it?
DV consumes 1GB for every five minutes. It you then compress it for
buring onto a DVD then you reduce 12GB for one hour into about 4.5GB
to fit onto a DVD, or about 600MB to fit onto a VCD.
Toast and iMovie make it easy to do the compression and formatting
for either format. Once the Codec is installed then it's just an
export from iMovie. Wait a few hours and then burn it onto a disk.
>Any tutorial I could pick from the web is fine as well.
>
>If I will then put the resulting file onto VCD (with Toast 5.2.1), could
>I insert some markers, to have the possibility to view it by chapters?
VCD is nothing like DVD. You don't get the nifty menus and you don't
get anywhere near the quality, but it compresses one hour of video
to fit onto a single CD.
One important caveat, however - not all DVD players can handle CD-R
and VCD. If you only want to view it on your computer then that's not
an issue.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
sbt
<rfis...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote:
<non-pertinent part snipped>
> >Any tutorial I could pick from the web is fine as well.
> >
> >If I will then put the resulting file onto VCD (with Toast 5.2.1), could
> >I insert some markers, to have the possibility to view it by chapters?
>
> VCD is nothing like DVD. You don't get the nifty menus and you don't
> get anywhere near the quality, but it compresses one hour of video
> to fit onto a single CD.
>
> One important caveat, however - not all DVD players can handle CD-R
> and VCD. If you only want to view it on your computer then that's not
> an issue.
Just to correct the above. You can, using VCD Builder (donationware by
Johan Lindström), have menus and chapters in your VCDs and SVCDs.
It's not a web tutorial, but Cohen & LeVitus cover using VCD Builder to
create menued VideoCDs in their "iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, & iDVD Bible"
(Wiley).
--
Spenser
John Faughnan
subject: Transferring SONY Hi8 home video tapes via a Canon zr 60 pass
through analog to digital conversion to an iBook 600 with iMovie 2
Other posters in this thread have addressed the A-D conversion issues
for VHS. I'd like to share my experience with A-D conversion for a
SONY analog camera. They may be of use to others.
First of all, this worked rather better than I expected.
The source was my older SONY analog video camera. I used Hi-8 tapes,
home video. This was connected by RCA jacks (S video is preferable, we
were testing) to a friend's Canon zr 60. Following the directions we
removed the tape from the zr60 and set it to the appropriate mode (per
Canon directions).
The zr 60 was connected by an Apple 4 to 6 pin Firewire cable ($30!!)
to a 600MHz iBook with 640 MB RAM running iMovie 2. (I've not switched
to iMovie 3, that version requires a faster machine than the 600 MHz
iBook.)
I set my analog camera to VTR and played. The video streamed to the
iBook. I toggled "import" whenever I wanted to capture video. Without
recourse to a manual, but using the horrid, unspeakably awful OS X
Help files, we easily grabbed video fragments, edited them, etc. A few
minutes of video resulted in a few hundred MB of iMovie files.
We then inserted a tape into the digital video camera (Canon zr 60)
and controlled that tape easily from the iBook. We exported our video
back to the Canon tape. We could also have exported it locally.
The G3 based iBook handled this task well. I did not attempt MPEG
compression or DVD preparation. I assume the G3 is totally inadequate
for this purpose. If I do this at home, I'm most likely to prepare the
raw video on my Mac then move it to a P4 machine to burn a DVD. Or
just store the translated and edited video on digital video tape until
I get my petabyte store domestic superserver @ 2006. I may end up
doing those crummy quality video CDs to send excerpts to the
grandparents.
An astonishingly effortless process. The results looked very good to
us. I cannot comment on how the quality of the resulting video would
compare to other digitization methods.
[meta: 030517, jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, pass-through, passthrough, pass
through, analog-digital, analog to digital, conversion, digitization,
digitalization, Apple, Mac, Macintosh, OS X, OSX, 10.2.6, firewire,
translation, iBook, vidcam, digital video, video camera, Hi8, Hi 8]