USPA & SPOTTING
I am Rhyno
In the practical world, who cares what cares about some theorectical
differences between airspeed vs ground speed. Look down before you leave
the plane, if you see aircraft, canopies, towers, mountains, water or
anything else you don't want to land on- Don't get out.
USPA is probably not going to take a position on this other than what is
currently written for one big reason - other than a few select people on
this biilboard nobody cares one way or another about ground speed or air
speed. It's nice to discuss a subject but keep it in prospective and don't
expect USPA to knee jerk react to every controversial posting.
Robert "Rhyno" Rhynearson
S.E. Regional Director
USPA
Barry Brumitt
> When is this going to end. I've never read so much about a single subject.
> In the practical world, who cares what cares about some theorectical
> differences between airspeed vs ground speed.
I do.
If the groundspeed of the plane I am in is very low, I want to wait longer
before I exit after another group so I don't die, kill someone in that group,
or both.
Is this a good reason to care? If this isn't a safety issue, I don't know what
is.
Barry
--
Barry L. Brumitt | bel...@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu |99.9%|Disclaimer: Opinions
Robotics GradStudent| Skydive! D-15427,SL/AFF I'95 | PGP |given herein may not
Carnegie Mellon | My 15kilobytes of fame: |Savvy| be the opinions of
"Who is John Galt?" | http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~belboz/ |FRC, SCS, RI, or CMU
Will Forshay
>speed. It's nice to discuss a subject but keep it in prospective and don't
>expect USPA to knee jerk react to every controversial posting.
no. but we do expect a followup to editor Jason Bell's call (in "Letters" in PARACHUTIST) for a more technical analysis. indeed, R=
hyno, your opinion would be valuable input as well as the technical answers to the debate.
--------------------------------------------
The word "BASE" is censored from PARACHUTIST.
Please let your feeling about this be known to your Regional Director and any National Directors that you know.
--------------------------------------------
Will Forshay There's no sensation to compare with this
D-12167, S/L-I Suspended animation, A state of bliss...
Vector T/M, Sr. Rigger
CFI, A-SEL; Com & I: MEL (USPA, AOPA)
eri...@oz.net
If people just looked down and did not take into consideration upper winds and how those winds
affect distance covered across the ground, the accident reports would be overwhelming.
USPA must take a position on this safety issue. Any representative of USPA who represents
other skydivers and takes the position as stated, should seriously consider resignation, or at
least become educated on the subject.
Barry Chase-D9545/AFF I'94/Tandem Instructor
= When is this going to end. I've never read so much about a single subject.
perhaps the discussion will come to a final close when there is a
complete undrestanding of the correct answer. It may not be any more
complicated than sorting out vocabulary, or puvlishing an article with
accurate and understandable diagramming.
= In the practical world, who cares what cares about some theorectical
= differences between airspeed vs ground speed. Look down before you leave
= the plane, if you see aircraft, canopies, towers, mountains, water or
= anything else you don't want to land on- Don't get out.
The problem here is that some people don't seem to think hat if a
group of jumpers is in freefall a few (2 or 3) seconds ahead of you, it
doesn't matter.
= speed. It's nice to discuss a subject but keep it in prospective and don't
= expect USPA to knee jerk react to every controversial posting.
I believe that a response to an issue that has been going on this
long, which they also saw fit to publish letters from both sides of the
arguement, is far beyond the "knee-jerk" reaction. By now they should
have been able to complete a reasonable response.
--
I'm afraid there's a five day wait for the handgun,
but you can have the knife today, Mr. Simpson
-----
_..-'( ba...@gate.net )`-.._
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./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )o o( ..|//||||`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`"'` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\.
./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. .|||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\.
/'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.`
'.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.`
|/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\|
V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V
` ` ` V ' ' '
.....
Kevin O'Connell
>currently written for one big reason - other than a few select people on
>this biilboard nobody cares one way or another about ground speed or air
>
>S.E. Regional Director
>USPA
Hey Rhyno. No particular reason, but .... When are you up for
re-election? :-)
Blue Skies!
Kevin O'Connell
D12086
Knows just enough to tell the difference
between a "biilboard" and a newsgroup.
Buzz Fink
Training, about an admin question. When I was finished, I enlightened
him on all the ruckus on the net about this ground speed issue. I let
him know that it has become a sore subject that needs immediate action by
USPA. Also that USPA was coming off looking like shi%$# again (imagine
that) and that he needed to step in and make sure an article was
published, one that clarifies this issue once and for all. He told me he
wrote an article quite a while ago and sent it to Jason but it has not
been printed. In the strongest of words, I "politely" suggested he get
involved and take action now! He said he would.
By the way, I find it hard to believe a Regional Director would take the
stand that was written on an earlier post. I've heard of singing the
company song, but this went far beyond.
The Buzzman
eri...@oz.net
Mr. Buzzman:
I would like to thank you for your support. As a point of interest, and in
case you were not aware, one of the two gentlemen lack is not being
honest with you. According to Jason Bell (per 'one' of my phone conversations
with him) he could not take any action, and that the S&TA was going to make a
statement. When no statement was published the story changed. The latest
story from USPA was that no statement was going to be made and that it was a
Board decision. I tend to believe a statement was given for publication, but
never made it.
After viewing and living all the facts regarding this issue, if anyone can
honestly say the USPA has acted with integrity, then I believe they need to
take another look. USPA is supposed to be the voice of the skydiving
community. However, since creditability seems to be going by the wayside, I
would call on the Board and members of USPA to rethink the actions of the
force behind its publication and decide if a change is not in order.
Blue Skies...
Buzz Fink
in
>case you were not aware, one of the two gentlemen lack is not being
>honest with you.
In all fairness to Jason Bell, he has been more straight forward with me
than almost anyone in USPA. I sent in a letter to the editor and it was
lost. I called Jason and he remembered the letter but thought it was
printed. When he found out it was not, he asked me to fax him another
copy of the letter and he would personally put it in Parachutist. And he
did in the VERY NEXT ISSUE. I think I shocked him when I called and
thanked him. I think people are too quick to complain when things don't
go right but fail to commend when thing do go right or people go out of
their way. The Safety and Training Committee are meeting at the next BOD
meeting and I think, as Jason said, we will have an answer that will be
published. It's called management by committee, not the most efficient
but typical of most bueacracies (USPA included).
The Buzzman
SherrySchr
(reading) we hear you! We just are not commenting, but that does not mean
we don't consider this issue important or that we will not address this
issue. Quite the opposite! That's our job! Keeping us safe and keeping
us jumping. Granted it will be foolish to think that when we do respond,
that everyone will agree. Our response will be based on what we believe
to be a safe technicque to use.
Personal comment:
I am not into the physics of it all, but I do fly. And when you consider
air speed, ground speed, etc., doesn't time come into play into providing
separation? I think so. I know this has been addressed and I have not
read every post, but I think several focused on the time factor. I almost
came back with "Bingo!".
Sherry
eri...@oz.net
Very nice to see your post. Gary Douris will be contacting you to discuss
this major safety concern. The issue isn't so much the theory of spotting, as
my article in Parachutist addressed, but the issue has transcended beyond.
The issue has evolved to a point that USPA failed to follow up and take a
stand on an issue of safety that could prevent a fatality.
Jason Bell assured me USPA would have the S&TA address this issue. Jason also
published a statment indicating the S&TA would make a statement. When no
article was published, Jason claimed the Board had to take action. According
to the S&TA, an article was given to Jason for publication, however Jason
apparently lost it. The story goes on.
With respect to your comment about time being a spotting element. I agree
with you completely, and my article did address the point. Unfortunately,
because Parachutist did not validate the concept sooner and instead published
letters that reflected confusion, or tried to bring in physics equations to
show one way or the other, safety on the subject is in question.
Do you know who Bob Buehrer is? The creater of the "Dream Machine." First
ground to air video used at the Nationals and co-owner of the former New
Dimensions Flight school that made a significant contribution of promoting AFF
when AFF was on the horizon. I would submit, talk to Bob about the subject of
spotting, and how the skydiving community is confused. Talk to Gary Durious
owner Free Flight Inc. Lake Elsinore, CA, Patrick Swovelin and Jerry Swovelin
for co-owners of New Dimension Flight School (Perris, CA), Jim Wallace -
Tandem Master and most experienced Tandem Master in the country.
The list of creditable persons goes on. Talk to them on how a portion of the
skydiving community is confused in such a way they believe how far an aircraft
travels across the ground has no effect on horizontal separation. Confused on
how airspeed is the deciding element. As a pilot you should know that
(relatively speaking) airspeed remains constant and ground speed (or distance
the aircraft physically traverses across the ground) determines separation of
groups relative to the ground.
Skydiving Saftey has always been my number one priority. From the very basics
of my training and the emphasis on safety, I have always promoted safety and
have tried to educate when the situation warrated. I must say that I am
deeply troubled, outraged and alarmed at a comment made by a fellow skydiver
regarding spotting. A fellow skydiver who happens to be a Regional Director.
A fellow skydiver whose attitude only propagates a lackadaisical viewpoint on
a very serious subject. The following is an exact copy of the post:
"When is this going to end. I've never read so much about a single subject.
In the practical world, who cares what cares about some theorectical
differences between airspeed vs ground speed. Look down before you leave
the plane, if you see aircraft, canopies, towers, mountains, water or
anything else you don't want to land on- Don't get out.
USPA is probably not going to take a position on this other than what is
currently written for one big reason - other than a few select people on
this biilboard nobody cares one way or another about ground speed or air
speed. It's nice to discuss a subject but keep it in prospective and don't
expect USPA to knee jerk react to every controversial posting.
Robert "Rhyno" Rhynearson
S.E. Regional Director
USPA"
My response to the statement was:
Please do not misunderstand me Sherry and think that I am on a high horse and
get some type of satisfaction in speaking out; I am not. People who know me
realize that I am not afraid of speaking my mind, however, this issue is
different. This issue can save a life. How many times have you, or others
reading this post have deployed, released the toggles and at that moment heard
a body in freefall whiz by you, and then watch them deploy. How many of you
have wondered, "what is this person doing here?," your 4-way suddenly have
become 5 under canopy. How many have heard the eerie sound of terminal
velocity pass you while under canopy? Situations such as these are the
result of improper horizontal separation involving multiple groups on one pass
during deployment.
Blue Skies,
Eric
SherrySchr
Do I know who Bob Bueher is? You Bet! He and I work on setting up air to
air judging for the Nationals in 1987. He developed a method to screen
the videographers and access the skill level. He also organized
re-dubbing of the tapes for the judges. Some of the techniques for
processing the tapes quickly to the judges are still being used. I also
remember the dream machine! :-). Bob is quite a guy! It would be nice to
hear from him.
This spotting issue is an unfortunate turn of events. What got my
attention (finally) was when someone posted that the Board was not going
to address this. Also when it was implied that HQ would not address this.
HQ does address safety issues quite frequently in Parachutist and they
don't go to the Board for approval on every response. Sometimes they will
touch base with the Safety and Training committee to be certain of facts
and policy.
I agree this is a safety issue and we definitely need to clear the mis
conception up. Especially when I think of the big boogies/conventions
coming up. I just say Jason's post. If I had seen it earlier, I would
not have had to post anything. I expect to get flamed for my time
comment, but I am glad that we are on the same sheet of music. Now let's
all do what we can to clear up the confusion. I will do my part. That's
some pretty impressive names you listed. I know most of the them.
Oh, this situation seems like it is time for my AOL signature: "It is not
who is right; it is what is right!" In the interest of safety, of course!
Sherry
George Galloway
>
>Just so you know, there are those of us (USPA) that are listening
>(reading) we hear you! We just are not commenting, but that does not
mean
>we don't consider this issue important or that we will not address this
>issue. Quite the opposite! That's our job!
Thanks, Sherry. It's true. While we still have a little way to go in
getting tho entire Board of Directors online daily, there are enough of
us that are connected every day to read and understand all which is
distributed in this medium.
However, this is not the appropriate place to conduct official USPA
business. I encourage all of you who have an interest in the way we
at USPA conduct (y)our business to come to (y)our next meeting in West
Point, NY a couple of weeks from now.
Just because we don't respond to each and every post doesn't mean we are
not here listening. We are. Issues which are properly channeled will be
responded to appropriately.
George Galloway
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"If you can pack all of those damn parachutes, then you can fold your own
shirts and make up your own bed"! [What my Mom told me when I was still
living at home at age 23, and absolutely obsessed with skydiving] c.1972
George Galloway g...@precision.net Precision Aerodynamics 615-949-4688
Parachute Industry Association VP US Parachute Assn Dir, Southern Region
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
William Forster
I can offer some advice since I was one of the first AFF students with
the New Dimension Flight School. My instructors and jump masters were
Bob Buehrer, Jerry and Pat Swovelin and if you remember we were jumping a
double keel paradacyl (spelling?). As we progressed, they taught us to
give eight seconds between exits. I continue this practice to this day
and I have never had a problem in passing anyone in free fall.
I don't know what the safety and training committee will recommend, but
it seems to me that their advice is still valid.
I might add that a few years ago at Perris I had two friends go through
the AFF course. I was on the same load as they were and in fact I was
first out of the Otter. Jim Wallace was second out and since he was
doing AFF with my friend, he told her there would be eight seconds
between us.
Again I don't know all the technical stuff, but I think this advice is
great !!
Hope to see more.
Bill Forster
Robert Bonitz
>double keel paradacyl (spelling?). As we progressed, they taught us to
>give eight seconds between exits. I continue this practice to this day
>and I have never had a problem in passing anyone in free fall.
>
>I don't know what the safety and training committee will recommend, but
>it seems to me that their advice is still valid.
Eight seconds may not be enough when the uppers are honking. That's why
checking the ground track is useful.
eri...@oz.net
NSJ...@prodigy.com (William Forster) wrote:
>Eric,
>
>I can offer some advice since I was one of the first AFF students with
>the New Dimension Flight School. My instructors and jump masters were
>Bob Buehrer, Jerry and Pat Swovelin and if you remember we were jumping a
>give eight seconds between exits. I continue this practice to this day
>and I have never had a problem in passing anyone in free fall.
>
I too went through New Dimensions (AFF#42) and Bob, Jerry, Pat and Ross Steere
were my instructors. If you were to ask Bob, or Jerry or Pat these days how
long should exit time be between exits they would tell you 10 seconds minimum,
however that is not the point and I am glad to see your viewpoint.
Regarding the spotting article, Bob Buehrer, Jerry Swovelin and Pat Swovelin
tech reviewed the article for accuracy. I felt it appropriate they tech
review it before sending it to USPA. New Dimensions taught me how to spot.
Nice to hear from another NewD graduate. When did you complete the program?
How well did you know Dick Pedley? He was a good friend.
Save and wonderful skydives to you.
Blue Skies
Rick Lemons
> Granted it will be foolish to think that when we do respond,
> that everyone will agree. Our response will be based on what we believe
> to be a safe technicque to use.
I agree that not everyone will agree. At this point, that is not the
point. The point most are tyring to make now is that USPA has done nothing
on the subject. Your official response will at least give the issue a
focal point, something everyone can work on together instead of arguing.
Will Forshay
> Hey Rhyno. No particular reason, but .... When are you up for
>re-election? :-)
next December. hey, perhaps I'll buy a small plot of land in the
Southeast region. maybe I'll have a better chance of getting on the
Board there.
I finished thirteenth out of thirteen last December for the eight
National Director slots. But hey... thanks to the 600+ people that did
vote for me. When only 12% of USPA members vote, don't expect much
turnover.
Randy Riecks
> In the practical world, who cares what cares about some theorectical
> differences between airspeed vs ground speed. Look down before you leave
> the plane, if you see aircraft, canopies, towers, mountains, water or
> anything else you don't want to land on- Don't get out.
I agree that this is getting ridiculous. We're all beginning to sound like
a bunch of whining wimps who expect SOMEONE ELSE to do everything for us.
Yes, it would be really nice to have a bonified and fully quantified
position from USPA on this...
But lacking that, you've all read the posts about this by now. If
you're still fuzzy on it, go out, study physics, aeronautics, and
whatever, then go out and LIVE IT at your local DZs!! And pass the
word along.
When USPA gets around to a response, then fine. In the meantime, we
may all have to educate ourselves and do some of our own thinking.
Randy Riecks D 16333
(Not exactly losing any sleep over it.)
Florian Rieger
The word "BASE" is censored from PARACHUTIST.
RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BIG LAUGH ON THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*****************ITS SPRUNGVERGNUEGEN!*****************
Green Skies
Flo
- via BulkRate 2.0
mARK bLOORE
<riec...@sgate.com> wrote:
...
> When USPA gets around to a response, then fine. In the meantime, we
> may all have to educate ourselves and do some of our own thinking.
our own thinking?! a dangerously radical notion. if we do that, then
soon we may be expected to learn things too, and even to understand them.
then the phone companies and internet providers would go broke, because
we would no longer spend hours each day downloading garbage from the net.
--
mARK bLOORE (ma...@arachnae.com)
Florian Rieger
I'9 wrote:
I'm afraid there's a five day wait for the handgun,
but you can have the knife today, Mr. Simpson
Ive read that so many times now and still have to grin.
Good joke!!!
Green Skies ******* ITS SPRUNGVERGNUEGEN! *******
Florian Rieger
The word "BASE" is censored from PARACHUTIST.
Haha!
- sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered).
I am Rhyno
pretty good idea on safety. If this is such a safety issue explain the
following:
1. Why is this suddenly a safety issue and has never been in the past?
2. So me the statistics/incident reports to justify the tremendous
amount attention this subject is suppose to get.
3. Where are the letters from the non-computer literate jumpers who are
concerned with this issue?
The point I have been trying to make is this, speration has always been
solved by allowing time between groups, looking out of the plane before
you jump and stay aware of other aircraft and jumpers in the area.
If you think USPA doesn't address safety issues I suggest you remember
these issues we have addressed: seat belts, rip cord stops, low hook
turns, tandum training, AFF training and the list goes on.
RHYNO
I am Rhyno
prospective, I have done a damn good job as Regional director. I have
visted just about every DZ in my region, I have conducted 2 S&TA meeting
in the last 12 months at a great expense to myself, I return all phone
calls in a very timely manner, and instead of winning about everything, I
do things to make a positive change. Since you are a BASE jumper, I
suggest you and your freinds vote for me. I have taken a tremendous amount
of heat supporting you and other BASE jumpers. This is reflected in the
minutes of the most recent board meeting.
RHYNO
Randy Riecks
>
> However, this is not the appropriate place to conduct official USPA
> business. I encourage all of you who have an interest in the way we
> at USPA conduct (y)our business to come to (y)our next meeting in West
> Point, NY a couple of weeks from now.
>
The glory of a computer network like this is that numerous interested
parties can take a part in the discussions... people who just might have
useful points to make.
Many of those same people are also not likely to be able to pick-up and
make their way to New York to attend a meeting.
I would suggest that this is as good a place as any to conduct business,
or at least to feel-out what the "constituency" has to say. It isn't
the only place to do so, of course, but it's a pretty good one.
Our phone calls an appropriate place to conduct official USPA business?
What about letters to the editor of PARACHUTIST?
I say, let's communicate... any way we can...
it seems to make pretty good sense to do so!
Randy Riecks
Robert Bonitz
>Just as point of information, I have 25 years in this sport and have a
You got me by 4 years.
>pretty good idea on safety. If this is such a safety issue explain the
>following:
> 1. Why is this suddenly a safety issue and has never been in the past?
Well, it has been a safety issue in the past. As soon as DZ owners started
putting out more groups on a pass, some jumpers were concerned about
separation and made known their opinions. Most accepted the practice, but
not without some concern especially when the uppers are smoking. And all
you have to do is listen to the talk on big aircraft and you know people
are concerned about groups giving enough time between exits. Or taking
too much time for that matter also.
> 2. So me the statistics/incident reports to justify the tremendous
>amount attention this subject is suppose to get.
You're right here. The statistics don't point to this as a major safety
problem, but I have had plenty of close calls and I'd hate to be the incident
which brings more attention to the issue. I think one reason it isn't
usually a problem is that people take quite of bit of time for their
climbouts and so adequate separation results. I don't worry about it when
the uppers are low, but usually make a few comments when their high so that
people think about it a bit.
And I have had lots of low timers ask about how much time between exits so
I know they are thinking about it.
> 3. Where are the letters from the non-computer literate jumpers who are
>concerned with this issue?
How do you know the recent letters in Parachutist weren't from non-computer
literate jumpers?
>The point I have been trying to make is this, speration has always been
>solved by allowing time between groups, looking out of the plane before
>you jump and stay aware of other aircraft and jumpers in the area.
Right, but some people don't understand how much time to leave so discussion
of the issue is useful.
>If you think USPA doesn't address safety issues I suggest you remember
>these issues we have addressed: seat belts, rip cord stops, low hook
>turns, tandum training, AFF training and the list goes on.
Right, but one shouldn't rest on one's laurels. Not that I think USPA is.
I believe something will be forthcoming.
And if you don't like to read all this stuff, edit you kill file.
C-VP-BT
|> In article <3tq2n2$2g...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> NSJ...@prodigy.com (William Forster) writes:
|> >give eight seconds between exits. I continue this practice to this day
|> >and I have never had a problem in passing anyone in free fall.
|> >
|> >it seems to me that their advice is still valid.
|>
|> Eight seconds may not be enough when the uppers are honking. That's why
|> checking the ground track is useful.
In fact, we had the classic experiment just this last weekend where the uppers
probably pushing 60knts and we were getting pushed back along the line of flight
several thousand feet. The 4way following our 8way gave the usual 5 to 8 seconds
separation before exiting, and proceeded open up in the middle of us. Some of the
better trackers on our load were farther out from the center of our 8way then the
newly arrived 4way. And since the 4way took it down a bit lower than we did, they
were just on our altitude. Even the guy on the ground towing the DZ around with
his tractor didn't help. People started waiting upto 15 seconds while watching the
planes ground track (which was extremely slow), and we began to get more normal
separation and spacing along the line of flight.
--
Dennis Worden, not representing $ When the TEAM succeeds, you succeed,
anybody, not even himself, in $ but when the Team fails, you're FIRED.
any way shape or form. $ Don't EMAIL me at wor...@lan.nsc.com
eri...@oz.net
it is not unusual to take 30 seconds to a minute or longer before the second and subsequent
groups exit.
Ground speed determines how far apart the groups will be during deployment.
Blue Skies
Kevin O'Connell
Hey, just a thought, is there a CS (Cyberspace) Regional director?
I nominate "Bat Sig" Berry!
Kevin O'Connell
SherrySchr
Let's see now, we have a cyberspace USPA Regional Director and s/he speaks
with one voice and represents us all to USPA. I kinda like the idea
except that I also like reading all the opinions and seeing different
sides to the issues. Also on the net you are much more candid with each
other then we are at the BOARD meeting. Most of the time, but not all, I
think we tend to hold back and not say what we really think about
someone's presentation or idea. Here we don't. And that is good.
Perhaps having someone help filter some of the postings would be good, but
I think even that would spoil the "purity" of the net responses if one
person, as we Naional Director and Regional Directors do, speaks for his
constituents. i. e. the "net".
Sherry
Trying2Fly
<ocon...@sal9000.orl.mmc.com> writes:
>
> Hey, just a thought, is there a CS (Cyberspace) Regional director?
>I nominate "Bat Sig" Berry!
>
> Kevin O'Connell
>
>
>
2nd it.
Wildthing
Wildthing
Ian Miller
bon...@ocelot.ece.ucdavis.edu (Robert Bonitz) wrote:
>In article <3tq2n2$2g...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> NSJ...@prodigy.com (William
>Forster) writes:
>>double keel paradacyl (spelling?). As we progressed, they taught us to
>>give eight seconds between exits. I continue this practice to this day
>>and I have never had a problem in passing anyone in free fall.
>>
>>I don't know what the safety and training committee will recommend, but
>>it seems to me that their advice is still valid.
>
>Eight seconds may not be enough when the uppers are honking. That's why
>checking the ground track is useful.
Equally it may be far too much with honking uppers (in the opposite
direction). Recently we had 15kts due E on the ground and 70kts due W at
altitude. The run-in ground speed was 150kts (250ft/s). Under these
circumstances the problem is keeping the load tight enough together so
everyone can get back okay.
Ian
Ian_M...@bifroest.demon.co.uk FAI-D10204
PGP key 1024/FCE97719 FP: 2A 20 46 10 E5 96 27 40 91 B1 95 BA CA D3 BC 14
Antworten auf Deutsch waeren mir angenehm.
Barry Chase D9545/AFF I'95/Tandem Instructor
> Hey, just a thought, is there a CS (Cyberspace) Regional
director?
>I nominate "Bat Sig" Berry!
>
> Kevin O'Connell
Oh, sure. CS-RD. That's JUST the job for me.
Would I sign the virtual pro ratings? How about the expanded
instructor certification. I know, I'll handle the hot swaps for S&TA'a.
Thanks anyway.
--
_..-'( ba...@gate.net )`-.._
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'.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.`
|/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\|
V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V
` ` ` V ' ' '
URL http://www.gate.net/~barry/
Barry Chase D9545/AFF I'95/Tandem Instructor
>
>Perhaps we can vote at the rec.skydiving jump at Quincy.
>Wildthing
Well...If Wildthing wants me, who am *I* to say no?
)
sherr...@aol.com (SherrySchr) writes:
How about a Director At_Large? He/she would go to the board meetings as
a sort of representative of the net. You know, check for spelling
errors, etc. Seriously though, I like the At-Large office idea.
Bob Church
Buzz Fink
Division Directors (S&TA) to come on line and read the net. They could
add helpfull and insightfull answers to many questions.
QUESTION OF THE DECADE: What is it going to take to have Parachutist
delivered on time for a twelve month period? (if this ever occurs, we'll
all owe beer!)
On a serious note, how about at the board meeting delegating more
authority to the Exec Dir and/or Dir of S&T? This whole spotting issue
should have been answered by Jack Gregory long ago without having to wait
for the BOD meeting. Does Chris Needle and/or Jack Gregory already have
t6his authority? If so why haven't they excersised it? If they don't,
what can we do to give them the authority?
On a positive note, my congratulations to the people processing the
licenses and awards. Their timeliness and efficiency is definitely
appreciated!
The Buzzman
Trying2Fly
(Buzz Fink) writes:
> This whole spotting issue
>should have been answered by
Buzz, You are in a posistion to set an example. You have the big planes,
The people, The computer, and you write intelligent letters. So why don't
you write your own policy and post it here? Others will surely respond,
and you will have the final draft ready for the next BOD meeting.