eBay's insurance - anyone else found it a rip-off ?
Dr. David Kirkby
http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/n-is-ebay-safe.html ) it says there is
an insurance scheme that covers upto $200. Has anyone actually got any
money from this ? I made a claim, which they agreed to settle, but I
have never received a check. On the 1st September this year I receive
this email:
> Hello, my name is Christy Crane and I am the adjuster on your claim.
We have been unsuccessful in > reaching the seller. Settlement will be
made on your claim
> this week. You should receive a claim check within the next ten
business days.
> Thank you,
> Christy Crane
> Lloyds Claims Administration
No check arrives. After querying this several times (all ignored), I
finally receive an email on the 25th October 1999 which said.
> Hello, the claim check was returned to us for additional postage. It
has
> been sent back out to you. You should receive it any day now.
> Thank you
> Christy Crane
> Lloyds Claims Administration
Still it never arrives. I query this again, and again most are ignored.
Finally I receive an email Tuesday the 16th of November, which says:
> Hello, your check has been mailed. I have no control over the mail
system.
> I will wait until December 1st. If you have not received it by then,
I will
> issue a stop pay and then reissue another check.
> Thank you
> Christy Crane
> Lloyds Claims Administration
I've said I feel they should stop the check now and make a payment by
another check, or electronically transfer the money, but again, after 3
days, there is no response. Its now 2 and a half months since I was told
the check would be sent that week.
I've also contacted eBay's support people, but have only been given
details of how to contact the insurers. They are unwilling to contact
the insurers for me. Being in another country, it is expensive for me to
phone the insurers.
Am I the only one to get this problem ? Anyone made a successful claim ?
My advice, don't use eBay unless you feel 100% confident about the
seller. My seller had a rating of about +20, with no negatives, but has
now ripped many people off.
If anyone in Ebay, Christy Crane herself, or anyone else in Lloyds would
take my grievence up, the claim number is EB6144. The seller was
'tuanbui'. Perhaps someone from Ebay or Lloyds would care to comment on
this publically.
--
Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D,
Department of Medical Physics,
University College London,
11-20 Capper St,
London,
WC1E 6JA.
Tel: +44 171 209 6406
Fax: +44 171 209 6269
Dr. David Kirkby
Chris Q.
> Perhaps someone from Ebay or Lloyds would care to
> comment on this publically.
> --
payments, true--Lloyd's check's-in-the-mail messages seem a dead
giveaway--but I'm surprised at eBay's apparent indifference.
Have you tried a polite but firmly-worded message to both Lloyd's and
eBay, demanding satisfaction within X number of days before you send
letters to the editors of major consumer magazines? You might consider
lodging a complaint with US regulatory agencies, as well.
Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Chris Q.
>Perhaps someone from Ebay or Lloyds would care to comment on this
>publically.
I wouldn't put anything past insurers, and Lloyd's check's-in-the-mail
messages smack of payment-delay games. I'm surprised at eBay's
indifference, though, and my suggestion is that you consider forcing
the issue publicly. In polite but firm language, inform both Lloyd's
and eBay that if your claim is not satisfied by [X Date], you will send
letters to the editors of major trade magazines--and then *do* it. You
might also tell eBay and Lloyd's that you'd appreciate being saved the
trouble of having to file a complaint with federal regulatory agencies.
Speaking of that... Which agencies in the US oversee this type thing?
Would it be the ITC (International Trade Commission)?
Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
Dr. David Kirkby
me another check, as I have stated that there is no way a letter from the US
should take that long. However, the person in Lloyds seems unwilling to
respond. Its difficult to deal with someone who ignores most emails.
I give up with eBay. I have made a (well 2 or 3 to be precise) complaints, but
all they are willing to do is provide me with an 0800 number I can't access
from the UK (see below). When I stated this is of no use, I was provided with
an online reference to a claim form (which clearly I already had) and the
Lloyds web page. There exact words were "We would really like to assist you
however, the only help we can provide
you with is an 800 number." SOME HELP.
I've told eBay, that since they pay the insurance fees, they should be in a
position to do something about it, but that too has been ignored.
I certainly was considering writing to the editor of Personal Computer World,
one of the biggest PC magazines in the UK. I feel that it is more difficult for
someone outside the USA, as phoning people gets expensive, and few of us know
much about US law and how best to deal with it.
I have wondered if this situation is in eBay's best interest. The more people
who get ripped off on eBay, the more they are likely to use i-Escrow, which
eBay owns.
Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D.
------email from eBay about the situation--------
Hello Dr. Kirkby,
We are sorry to hear about the troubles you have been experiencing with
this situation.
We would really like to assist you however, the only help we can provide
you with is an 800 number. Here it is: 1-800-263-6552
Please, give them a call and explain your situation to the
representative. They should be able to assist you further.
-----------------------
Chris Q. wrote:
> "Dr. David Kirkby" <da...@medphys.ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Perhaps someone from Ebay or Lloyds would care to
> > comment on this publically.
> > --
> Your experience is surprising. Many insurance cos. play games to delay
> payments, true--Lloyd's check's-in-the-mail messages seem a dead
> giveaway--but I'm surprised at eBay's apparent indifference.
>
> Have you tried a polite but firmly-worded message to both Lloyd's and
> eBay, demanding satisfaction within X number of days before you send
> letters to the editors of major consumer magazines? You might consider
> lodging a complaint with US regulatory agencies, as well.
>
> Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
--
Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D.
Bruce
faith failure to pay" an insurance claim. It sounds like you've got
all you need. If they're doing this on a grand scale, it could make
for a wonderful class action lawsuit against both EBAY and the
insurance company.
Sorry EBAY, get on the stick or you going to get one.
Good luck.
Bruce
>'tuanbui'. Perhaps someone from Ebay or Lloyds would care to comment on
>this publically.
>
>
>--
>Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D,
Chris Q.
time, that time and financial expenditures re lawyers are very real
considerations. If you aren't ready for a solicitor, then I'll be glad
to try my hand with the eBay 800 number, from here in the US, if you
want. (Needless to say, I'd need all the data you possess.)
Steve Browne made a good point about the possibility of you showing up
on Lloyds' doorstep. (Lloyds' was restructured though...wasn't it?
Maybe headquarters is no longe in London.)
YOU seem to have hit on the most likely probability--eBay's ownership
of the escrow company is a conflict of interest. Stated generically
rather than legally, the fact is:
******EBay won't hurry down a path reducing your need to use their
escrow company _unless_ eBay cares as much about its customers' welfare
as it claims.******
I think I'll phone a couple of reporters and ask if *they* think eBay's
public displays of customer concern are sincere, based on the
experience you've described...
Chris
Mark C. Orton
<da...@medphys.ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
> I give up with eBay. I have made a (well 2 or 3 to be precise) complaints, but
> all they are willing to do is provide me with an 0800 number I can't access
> from the UK (see below).
It's my understanding that 800 numbers can be dialed from overseas; it's
just not toll-free. (You have to pay the international charges.) You
might try calling them and asking the operator to reverse the charges.
I don't know for certain thaf it would work, but it's worth a try.
-Mark-
Richard Ward
which, depending on the state you are located in, could have the
potential of treble damages, and the possibility of the state attorney
general prosecuting a suit. Talk to the consumer protection division of
your state attorney general as soon as possible, as well as to the
commission regulating insurance in your state.
Richard Ward
Bruce wrote:
>
> I'd recommend you go see a lawyer NOW. There is such a thing as "bad
> faith failure to pay" an insurance claim. It sounds like you've got
> all you need. If they're doing this on a grand scale, it could make
> for a wonderful class action lawsuit against both EBAY and the
> insurance company.
> Sorry EBAY, get on the stick or you going to get one.
>
> Good luck.
> Bruce
>
Dr. David Kirkby
the problem I'm having trying to get money out of the Lloyds insurance
company, following Lloyds agreement to pay me. This followed me being ripped
off by an eBay seller 'tuanbui' and making a claim against eBay's insurers.
Richard Ward suggested I contact the "the consumer protection division of your
state attorney general". Unfortunately, I'm not in the USA, so I can't do
that. Getting layers involved, while tempting, is not really realistic to
chase a claim of $155, of which I will only get $130 if Lloyds pay me, as
there is a $25 excess.
I am able to contact the insurers by telephone, but again this is just not
economic for the amount of money involved. While there is an 800 it will not
be free from the UK - if I can dial it at all. However, I do have a number
that I can dial, so the 800 is not really an issue. Realistically, I can't
see this matter being resolved quickly on the phone, so there is not any
financial sense in me spending money on international phone calls to pursue
this. Lloyds have email, but respond slowly. The message I posted last Friday
was copied to the person in Lloyds dealing with my claim (Christy Crane), but
she has not responded.
I've asked eBay on several occasions to help. I received this email earlier
this week following a complaint to "Safe Harbour". I think this shows their
total indifference to the situation.
They say things like "Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.",
so I asked once again that they (as the company that pays the insurance
premium), contact Lloyds. No response yet. Admittedly I only sent that email a
day or two ago, but I have asked previously that they contact Lloyds, but they
just ignore me.
They also say "Working together, we can continue to keep eBay a safe and fun
place to trade.". Well I've not found it a lot of fun. Someone rips me off
for $155, then 2 and half months after the insurers agree to reimburse me, I'm
still chasing a check that has supposedly been sent twice.
Dr. David Kirkby.
-----received from Safe Harbour this week----------------------
Hello Dr. David Kirkby, Ph. D.,
I understand the frustration you are experiencing.
I am sorry that you have having such a problem with Lloyd's of London. I
feel you are doing the right thing by trying to contact Lloyd's of
London. You may contact Lloyds of London.
Lloyd's Claims Administrator
6745 Phillips Ind. Blvd
Jacksonville, FL 32256
Insurance claim form URL
http://pages.ebay.com/services\safeharbor\frs-claimform.html
Lloyd's of London home page:
http://www.lloydsamerica.com/
Lloyd's address:
Lloyd's Claims Administrator, 6745 Phillips Ind. Blvd, Jacksonville, FL
32256
Lloyd's phone number:
1-800-263-6552
Lloyd's email address:
cla...@cynosurefinancial.com
Regards,
I can understand how disappointed you must feel in this situation.
Although we can work our hardest to help you resolve this matter, we
realize this doesn't take away from feeling let down.
Working together, we can continue to keep eBay a safe and fun place to
trade.
Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
Regards,
Randy P.
Investigations Team
----------------------------------------------
eBay
Your Personal Trading Community (tm)
Starter
Ted Wagner
I haven't used the eBay insurance. However, I think it is a good
idea! Especially for items over $100. i've seen MANY large dollar
items go wacky and turn ugly.
Case in point: a friend of mine dealt with a lady who he bought
computers from on yahoo auctions. He had some good experience and she
agreed to sell additional computers at the same price. After about 5
people he referred to her sent in money orders, she started compiling
large numbers of negative feedback!
Granted, the 5 he referred were off an auction site. They're out of
luck. But, the problem exists throughout the auction sites. It's
difficult for local law enforcement to deal with sales fraud when they
may already have a workload that exceeds their limitations. When you
lose $400-$500 to a deadbeat seller, what are you going to do? Will
you waste money on an attorney? The high cost of attorneys these days
and the overload of our court systems (including small claims) makes
this process a little intimidating and most people never consider it.
You STILL have to pay many attorneys up front. Which means you have
to have wait until your small claims case is settled before you can
recoup the costs on both the auction, attorney, AND court costs.
If buyer's insurance were available and used more often, many people
would probably have better experiences.
My advice is never spend more than you can afford to lose. Not all
sellers are deadbeats (likewise for buyers). But, a little protection
never hurts. If you need to spend more than you can afford to lose,
make sure you are bidding on a seller who takes Visa or Mastercard so
you are protected against fraud...or you purchase the insurance from
the online auction.
Another case in point. Most of the ruckus on the auctions is sellers
including a disclaimer about deadbeat buyers in their advertisements.
It takes a bit of work to list an item (not a lot, I'm speaking of
experience here). But, it costs money to list items. The way you pay
for that is to get paid for your auctions. But, buyers actually are
hurt more by deadbeat sellers than sellers are by deadbeat buyers! If
I sell a computer which costs me $30 to list and sell, and I lose that
to a deadbeat buyer, that's not half as bad as me sending a money
order to a guy for $1000 on a computer and I never receive it. In
one, case a seller is out $30. In the other, a buyer is out $1000.
I think insurance is a good idea as long as the process is clearly
defined and is the same for both buyers and sellers.
Ted
irish-george
100 auctions "won") and the number
of times the item arrived before the 30 days expired I can count on one
hand.
What I would advise (and have done once) in the case of unscrupulous sellers
is become familiar with the site:
http://www.usps.gov and their form 8165 (mail fraud)...if you send your
payment by US mail or if the seller sends
the merchandise by US mail, THEN the form may apply to your situation.
Other good resources are: U...@FTC.GOV (federal trade commission...they have
a 30 day rule governing the
delivery of merchandise or the offer of a refund if you are dealing with a
business), and;
http://www.fraud.org
Unfortunately, I found eBay's SafeHarbor (SafeH...@ebay.com) to be utterly
worthless. They are slow and un-
responsive and lean VERY HEAVILY in favor of a seller...even those with 10%
negative feedback + 10% neutral
feedback + some of the feedback threatening legal action. I guess they take
a very shortsighted approach and
are assuming that the seller pays them...wrong, the buyer is where the funds
come from and their approach turns
off many buyers and limits competition for items and suppresses prices. The
losers? The honest sellers and
eBay themselves!
BTW--Just my observation: Based upon the 100 or so auctions I've "won", I'd
say about 10% of sellers are of dubious
character with about 1-2% being blatant thieves. How would other buyers
"score" it?
Ted Wagner wrote in message <38676b20...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
Wkmccarthy
>eBay insurance is TOTALLY worthless. >the number
>of times the item arrived before the 30 days expired I can count on one
>hand.
Very good point.
>Unfortunately, I found eBay's SafeHarbor (SafeH...@ebay.com) to be utterly
>worthless. They are slow and un-
>responsive and lean VERY HEAVILY in favor of a seller..
Another very good point that I have recently found out for myself. eBay will
almost always favor the seller in disputes and SafeHarbor is just a joke.
>I guess they take
>a very shortsighted approach and
>are assuming that the seller pays them...
I have the same feeling.
> How would other buyers
>"score" it?
I think yours sounds about right.
How about Amazon and Yahoo auctions? Are they any better with service? I have
heard that Amazon goes after fake items with a vengeance... actually having
employees exclusively for ferreting out fake bags from Louis Vuiton, etc. I
know their selection is much less than eBay but I've become so dissatisfied
with eBay that I've become ready to switch. Any other opinions?