TO SLIDERS FANS FROM TRACY TORME'
PhotoMan
Thank you for your post that straightened out the (nasty) rumours
spreading around here, the most important one being that JRD quit and was
instead booted by FOX. Very few posters here refuted that, and was pretty
much accepted that HE chose to leave. I hope SLIDERS can get back on track
if picked up, but with FOX calling the shots, I think not.
By the way, I just wanted to thank you also for "CONSPIRACY"
(TNG). It was one of the best TNG episodes I've seen. Unfortunaley never
followed up on. (Unless they plan on that with this season's Voyager
season finale ("Scorpion"), which is supposed to be about an enemy of
the BORG that actually is more powerful (Scorpion = Conspiracy creatures
maybe?).
Good luck (in your other projects and in dealing with LCD* FOX)
Vito
photoman@interport,net
*Lowest Common Denomenator
SLIDER MAN
For the first time in several months, I've been reading some of the
postings on Alt.TV.Sliders and felt compelled to address a couple of
issues.
I'm sad to say I'm not surprised to see how many people are acutely aware
of the lack of quality in virtually every area of the show as it is
currently being produced. Most of the things that made the show unique
(the interaction of four human, flawed characters, social satire, dark
comedy, Rembrandt's music, historical what-ifs, twist endings etc.) have
vanished.
I could go on, and will in the future, but for now allow me to apologize
to those who've noticed the tepid SLIDERS of Season Three.
Let me digress by clearing up a couple of fictional tangents that seem to
run rampant on the net:
John Rhys-Davies did not quit - his departure and the introduction of the
new character was a network decision.
For those who continue to promulgate the tiresome, dishonest fiction about
the so-called SLIDERS/DOORWAYS "controversy", I could say "get a life" but
instead how about a little dose of truth?
Recently, I finally got to see DOORWAYS. To say how awful I thought it
was would have been difficult, since the three other people I was viewing
it with had all left the room by the middle of the pilot. When it had
mercifully ended, I could truly understand why the network that produced
it not only didn't buy the series, but deemed the pilot so unwatchable
that it never aired, even as summer fill.
I'm amazed to see the same tired names still pushing DOORWAYS as if it
were Masterpiece Theater compared to SLIDERS. There is no accounting for
taste -- perhaps these people keep expecting Tampa Bay to win the
Superbowl -- but I question whether they are the three people who actually
liked DOORWAYS, or whether they are simply taking advantage of the fact
that no one has seen it, so no one can judge their statements.
The above is a fight that I have avoided for the past several years,
despite the never-ending and sickening pack of lies about the "influence"
DOORWAYS had on SLIDERS. I can tell you now -- and it's been
well-substantiated -- that it had ZERO influence. Zero. Period. Those
who continue to imply otherwise are either dishonest, demented, or having
finally seen DOORWAYS... perhaps they simply have a strange sense of
humor.
The next time you see anything implying that the three seasons of SLIDERS
have any connection to the failed pilot mentioned above, understand you
are reading bald-faced lies. Secondly, if someone comes on to say how
great the DOORWAYS pilot was and what a tragic shame that it never saw the
light of day, don't be a drone, go out and see it for yourself (if you can
find it), at which point you will understand the Tampa Bay analogy all too
well.
The fact is, I never rooted against, or defamed DOORWAYS in any way, shape
or form. To do so would have been petty and unprofessional.
Unfortunately, long after DOORWAYS was on the shelf and SLIDERS was
emerging, the DOORWAYS creator followed a pattern I'm told is quite usual
for him by ranting and raving day after day -- not only at the very
successful SLIDERS two-hour movie, but at me personally -- Example: the
story that I read DOORWAYS and begged him for a job on his nonexistent
series would be completely libelous if it were not so laughably untrue.
There is so much more I could say about those who spread such disparaging,
defaming gossip based on the ravings of someone whose pilot failed
miserably and now must bitterly attack a competing show that has just
filmed its 48th episode. I've avoided the temptation to enter such a
pathetic fray until now -- but truth is truth, and there is some
satisfaction in finally allowing it out of the closet.
Finally, I am on to other new and exciting projects which I hope will
attract many of the same terrific audience who devoted themselves to
SLIDERS. I can also assure you that if we are picked up for a fourth
season, I will be making the horror I feel at watching some of this
season's episodes well-known to the network, regardless of the price I
might have to pay for doing so.
Thanks again for your input, patience and devotion to SLIDERS... a show
which still remains very close to my heart.
Tracy Torme'
Shannen Bodell
In article <5jkv35$n...@interport.net> phot...@interport.net (PhotoMan) writes:
>From: phot...@interport.net (PhotoMan)
>Subject: TO SLIDERS FANS FROM TRACY TORME'
>Date: 23 Apr 1997 08:25:09 -0400
> Thank you for your post that straightened out the (nasty) rumours
>spreading around here, the most important one being that JRD quit and was
>instead booted by FOX. Very few posters here refuted that, and was pretty
>much accepted that HE chose to leave. I hope SLIDERS can get back on track
>if picked up, but with FOX calling the shots, I think not.
Well, yes--I had always assumed up until recently that it had been JRD's
choice to leave the show. He'd been vocal about wanting to leave in the past,
and since he never said anything about being fired unfairly (unlike me--when I
lost my last job without cause, I told anyone who would listen!). Perhaps
silence was a term of his leaving--I don't know.
But then--when I read that USA Today article, I started to go, "Hmmm..." It
said "One actor was given his walking papers.". Now I'm no genius, but that's
usually how you describe someone who has been fired. Then, in the next
paragraph, it was stated that a change was needed to create conflict. Now
there was a perfect opportunity to say, "Mr. Rhys-Davies left because he was
unhappy with our new direction and his role in it." But they didn't say
that--which made me really suspicious. And now--my suspicions have been
confirmed.
It's sad more than anything else.
Shannen
Joe
sha...@alpha.wcoil.com (Shannen Bodell) wrote:
>It's sad more than anything else.
Yup. It's almost hard to believe the Fox execudroids could be so
retarted as to deliberately fire the show's best actor and character.
This just confirms my decision not to watch the show any more. It'd be
bad enough if wrecking the show was an accident, but since Fox is
apparently wrecking the show on purpose, well...
Joe McGinn
===================================================
Author of Inside LotusScript, available August 1997
http://www.browsebooks.com/McGinn/
===================================================
TRoosvelt
Perhaps we could see a return to some actual alternative history plots
similar to season one ?
Gharlane of Eddore
In <19970423022...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
slid...@aol.com (SLIDER MAN) writes:
>
.....<deletia>
>
> Let me digress by clearing up a couple of fictional tangents that seem
> to run rampant on the net:
>
> John Rhys-Davies did not quit - his departure and the introduction of
> the new character was a network decision.
>
This is rather incredible, since he was one of the show's major draws
(aside from Sabrina Lloyd's Legs, of course!) and since we've been hearing
noises about JRD's dissatisfaction with the scripts since Day One.
But since there's hardly any reason for you to be making it up, accepted
as stated, and added to the huge heap of already-extant evidence that no
one in Fox "Management" has an I.Q. high enough to remember which end
of a match to strike.
>
> For those who continue to promulgate the tiresome, dishonest fiction
> about the so-called SLIDERS/DOORWAYS "controversy", I could say "get
> a life" but instead how about a little dose of truth?
>
"So-called" implies that no "controversy" exists; since it *does* exist,
a better choice of words would have reflected your belief that such
controversy was unfounded or inappropriate, not that you decry the
existence of such "controversy."
> Recently, I finally got to see DOORWAYS. To say how awful I thought it
> was would have been difficult, since the three other people I was viewing
> it with had all left the room by the middle of the pilot. When it had
"Recently?" In e-mail on 7 May, 1996, you described having "recently"
seen "DOORWAYS." Obviously, your statements are subject to a bit of
stretching when it's necessary to make a point stronger.
At your age, "recently" shouldn't be an appropriate modifier for something
that happened almost a year ago. You also, at that time, stated:
"Suffice to say, of the six people in the room who started watching it,
only two of us were left at the end - and the unanimous consensus was
that we could clearly see why ABC mercifully killed it without ever
airing it."
Now, from a remove of some twelve months, you've decided you watched
it with THREE other people, and they all left...... Forgive me for
pointing this out, but your e-mail of 7 May '96 and your current
posting make it clear that either your memory or your veracity is
subject to a certain degree of distrust.
As for ABC "mercifully killing it," ABC chose not to air it in the
U.S., but it's done quite well as a theatrical, rental, and TV movie
overseas, earning no little notoriety for the stars.
And it's a matter of record that ABC liked the pilot well enough to
advance-fund six full scripts by some pretty good people, three of
which were danged good, two of which were still a lot better than
anything we've ever seen on "SLIDERS," and one of which was certainly
as good as anything we've seen on "SLIDERS."
ABC had two fantasy shows ready to go; "DOORWAYS" and "LOIS & CLARK."
They opted for "L&C" not because "DOORWAYS" was garbage, but because
they rightly felt they could get better ratings out of L&C.
Unfortunately, they had the poor sense to let the lady who made L&C
fly, and Tracy Scoggins, both get away from them in the first-season
format revision.... but I digress.
You might also, some day, investigate the budget that was spent on
the "DOORWAYS" pilot, and compare it to the money that was spent on
*YOUR* pilot. Ask yourself how Martin's project would have looked
if he'd had your budget, family, and studio connections to work with;
as it was, he and his crew were cruising on nothing but talent and
dedication, and turned in better work than you did.
> mercifully ended, I could truly understand why the network that produced
> it not only didn't buy the series, but deemed the pilot so unwatchable
> that it never aired, even as summer fill.
....And has made Ann Le Guernec a media heroine in the U.K. and Europe,
and has had whole media conventions focussed on it. ABC owns the rights
to U.S. TV airing, and has *chosen* not to air it; their loss. They
could have done pretty well with it, but didn't want to "diffuse the
audience."
> I'm amazed to see the same tired names still pushing DOORWAYS as if it
> were Masterpiece Theater compared to SLIDERS. There is no accounting for
Hardly. Great work, it wasn't; heck, the intro voice-over on "DOORWAYS"
even had the phrase, "...a world where magic works, and physics won't...."
in the description list of possible alternate worlds. But it was certainly
a better designed, more coherent series format than you and your buddy
came up with, because the people who did it had a better working knowledge
of the genre.
> taste -- perhaps these people keep expecting Tampa Bay to win the
> Superbowl -- but I question whether they are the three people who
Sorry, I have no interest in hockey, or baseball, or whatever you're on
about now.
> actually liked DOORWAYS, or whether they are simply taking advantage of
> the fact that no one has seen it, so no one can judge their statements.
Oh, there are enough copies around that it's been seen by a lot of folks.
The commonest cut is 84 minutes, the "ninety-minute" cut that was made
from the original two-hour film for release to U.K. TV (in the U.K.,
there are two minutes of commercial per half hour of air time, so 84
minutes and six minutes of commercial just fit in 90 minutes.)
Incidentally, even the music is better than your series'; and the movie
works very well on a number of levels, and is an impressive piece of
work, especially considering the production limitations under which it
was made.
> The above is a fight that I have avoided for the past several years,
> despite the never-ending and sickening pack of lies about the
> "influence" DOORWAYS had on SLIDERS. I can tell you now -- and it's
> been well-substantiated -- that it had ZERO influence. Zero. Period.
Very possibly; after we established that the "Tracy Torme" who'd been
popping up at SF conventions, on and off, for much of the past decade,
had zero resemblance to you, we were more than willing to stipulate
that you'd never seen "DOORWAYS" or been near any of the scripts.
A photo of *that* "Tracy Torme," sitting in the front row of an
audience at an SF convention in 1992, compared to a photo of you,
clearly shows it is *NOT* you. This fact, and both photos, have been
posted in appropriate discussion groups since your original denial
caused us to re-examine the mysterious con-attending "Tracy Torme,"
who was never willing to talk to anyone.
However, the fact remains that George R.R. Martin, who's won all the
major writing awards in the field more than once, and who has a
thirty-year track record in SF and Fantasy, did it *first*, did it
on a shoestring, and did it better. Since you came *after*, it
behooved you to at least equal his work, to prove that you had some
idea what you were doing.
"DOORWAYS" was not Emmy material. Heck, it would have had to push
for Hugo nominations! But the show you and your partner came up
with didn't show anything better, and certainly couldn't compete
for clarity of concept and quality of writing.
> Those who continue to imply otherwise are either dishonest, demented,
> or having finally seen DOORWAYS... perhaps they simply have a strange
> sense of humor.
Ah. We're back to "having finally seen "DOORWAYS." I re-iterate; you
first reported having seen "DOORWAYS" in e-mail to me on 7 May, 1996.
Please stop abusing your poetic license, or else admit that you have
some form of substance-abuse problem that makes it difficult for you
to keep track of time.....
> The next time you see anything implying that the three seasons of SLIDERS
> have any connection to the failed pilot mentioned above, understand you
> are reading bald-faced lies. Secondly, if someone comes on to say how
> great the DOORWAYS pilot was and what a tragic shame that it never saw the
> light of day, don't be a drone, go out and see it for yourself (if you can
> find it), at which point you will understand the Tampa Bay analogy all too
> well.
Actually, a number of regulars on this topic *have* seen the "DOORWAYS"
pilot, and most found it acceptably good work. One topic regular, a
fairly objective fellow, wasn't all that impressed by it, but still
thought it was okay. I'll leave them to speak for themselves, if they
care to. Your willingness to trash the work of another when you think
it's not readily available for viewing to defend itself, is instructive.
> The fact is, I never rooted against, or defamed DOORWAYS in any way,
> shape or form. To do so would have been petty and unprofessional.
> Unfortunately, long after DOORWAYS was on the shelf and SLIDERS was
> emerging, the DOORWAYS creator followed a pattern I'm told is quite
> usual for him by ranting and raving day after day -- not only at the
> very successful SLIDERS two-hour movie, but at me personally --
Sure sounds like some kind of "defamation" to me....
> Example: the story that I read DOORWAYS and begged him for a job on
> his nonexistent series would be completely libelous if it were not
> so laughably untrue.
Since your *agent* approached the Other Folks on your behalf, you
probably need to discuss the matter with him. As I recall, there
were several people present when G.R.R.M. was informed that you'd
read his pilot script and loved it, and would love to work on the
project. Since this kind of thing is completely normal Agent
Hyperbole, I'm quite willing to accept that it was NOT the case,
but you were ill-represented by those who should have better guarded
your interests, and been aware that you and Weiss were cooking your
own parallel-universe show.
> There is so much more I could say about those who spread such
> disparaging, defaming gossip based on the ravings of someone
> whose pilot failed miserably and now must bitterly attack a
> competing show that has just filmed its 48th episode.
> I've avoided the temptation to enter such a pathetic fray until
> now -- but truth is truth, and there is some satisfaction in
> finally allowing it out of the closet.
"Failed miserably" is hardly a defensible assertion, since it's
STILL making money on airing contracts, video sales, rentals,
and tie-in merchandise all over the world. As for "competing
show," don't put on airs. "SLIDERS" was never even in the
same ballpark...... As soon as you've won one-tenth of the
Hugos and Nebulas that George R.R. Martin has, get back to
us about your writing; and as soon as you've got some good
scripts to your credit that aren't blatantly derivative, get
back to us on what a great scriptwriter you are.
Now, don't get me wrong on this; George R.R. Martin is not a
nice man. In fact, George R.R. Martin is a royal pain in the
tochis. But he *is* a highly competent writer and producer,
and has a personal track record that goes back in several genres
for longer than you've been alive. His books, movies, comic
book scripts, plays, and critical work have earned him great
respect. (And I owe the man no fealty, since he's had the
singular lack of good taste to reject more than a few of my
stories!)
You, on the other hand, made a name for yourself recycling genre
schticks on ST:TNG. Your two best scripts, "CONSPIRACY" and "THE
BIG GOODBYE," owe more than a little to your prose predecessors.
They're among the better work we saw on "TNG," but they're none
too good in terms of actual SF, due both to the constraints of
the series format and to your own shortcomings. (Don't get me
wrong, here; I paid good money for copies of both of them on
videotape, and many of my friends have copies as well.)
They prove that, while you may be a decent producer, and a heck
of a guy, you need a technical consultant, and someone who's more
SF-knowledgeable than you, to keep you out of trouble.
> Finally, I am on to other new and exciting projects which I hope will
> attract many of the same terrific audience who devoted themselves
> to SLIDERS. I can also assure you that if we are picked up for a
> fourth season, I will be making the horror I feel at watching some
> of this season's episodes well-known to the network, regardless of
> the price I might have to pay for doing so.
Good luck. Last we heard, Fox isn't listening to ANYONE, especially
dissociated producers, but since you have a degree of interest in
the field, we will keep hoping that you come up with a good show,
and if you do, trust me, we'll be watching it and recommending it.
> Thanks again for your input, patience and devotion to SLIDERS...
> a show which still remains very close to my heart.
Thanks for trying to introduce the Kromaggs, which could have been
a powerful and interesting ongoing plot situation, given actual
scripts and a sensible species name.
> Tracy Torme'
....B.T.W., the *last* time we had a posting here from "Tracy Torme,"
it turned out to be an unauthorized P.A. going off half-cocked.
I am presuming that you are really you, due to text stylisms and
habitual grammatical malfunctions typical of your past communication.
Regards, & good luck on your new projects.
Robert Cook
ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) wrote:
>On "DOORWAYS"' General Badness.....
>In <5jm575$v...@camel4.mindspring.com> zikz...@nospamplease.com writes:
>>
>> I've seen "Doorways" and I agree. "Doorways" was inferior in every
>> respect to the first and second and (in some ways) third season of
>> "Sliders." The characters were wooden. The plot was weak. And even
>> the alternate reality portrayed in the pilot (a world where bacteria
>> devoured all petroleum products) was unrealistic and implausible
>> compared to most worlds portrayed on "Sliders." How does losing all
>> the plastic in the world force people to become a cross between a
>> Western and Mad Max? And how did they run the electricity without
>> plastic to cover the wiring?
>Addressing only your technical carps.... with petroleum gone, and
>certain species of plastic having become Purina Bacteria Vittles,
>there's no gasoline, no petroleum-derived plastics, no petroleum-
>*related* plastics.... obviously, alcohol is a lower-yield fuel
>which can be made easily, and hydrogen-oxygen engines are an option.
(massive snip)
If anyone out there is interested in this subject, and can't get a
copy of Doorways, they might try reading the recent (1995) novel "ILL
WIND" by Kevin J. Anderson and Doug Beason. Strictly by-the-numbers in
terms of plot and characters, but it *does* show the havoc a
petroleum-product-eating bacteria would wreck on our society.
Robert M. Cook
co...@sos.net
http://www.sos.net/home/cook/index2.htm
Cecile Pirandello
ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) seized a crayon and
wrote:
>"Recently?" In e-mail on 7 May, 1996, you described having
>"recently" seen "DOORWAYS." Obviously, your statements are
>subject to a bit of stretching when it's necessary to make a point
>stronger.
If so, then you and he have something in common.
Oops, now I've insulted Tracy.
>You might also, some day, investigate the budget that was spent
>on the "DOORWAYS" pilot, and compare it to the money that was
>spent on *YOUR* pilot. Ask yourself how Martin's project would
>have looked if he'd had your budget, family, and studio connections
>to work with; as it was, he and his crew were cruising on nothing
>but talent and dedication, and turned in better work than you did.
Was DOORWAYS "better work" than Sliders when TT was really in charge?
I haven't seen DOORWAYS, but let's see what we have...
On the one hand, we have a man who is seemingly obsessed with promoting
DOORWAYS over Sliders, and has been ranting about that ever since
Sliders first aired, a man who has been known to stretch the truth quite
beyond recognition whenever he gets emotionally involved, which is
frequent. Weight: zero.
No, I'm not accusing Gharlane of commercial interest, although my jaw
won't exactly drop if that's it.
On the other hand, we have -- well, pretty much anybody would outweigh
Gharlane on this -- other people who concur with Tracy about DOORWAYS.
He himself might have been accused of bias from producing a competing
show, except that he held his tongue for years until he no longer had a
conflict of interest, and is apparently emotionally quite divorced from
The New, Fox-Network-Managed Sliders. And least, a network's decision to
turn DOORWAYS down. Weight: medium.
>........As soon as you've won one-tenth of the
>Hugos and Nebulas that George R.R. Martin has, get back to
>us about your writing;
Come off it, awards mean crap. Look at all the awards Harlan Ellision
got, and try to tell me with a straight face that he deserves 'em! I
personally know two perfectly lousy writers -- well, one is a FOAF --
who've gotten awards they absolutely didn't deserve.
>and as soon as you've got some good
>scripts to your credit that aren't blatantly derivative, get
>back to us on what a great scriptwriter you are.
Gharlane's opinion, weight zero.
Allondro
Gharlane of Eddore <ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu> wrote in article
<5k09fn$7...@news.csus.edu>...
>
> As for electricity without plastic, it may interest you to know that
> electricity was generated and used in this country for half a century
> before modern plastics became available. Original site wiring
> was done with what's called "knob-and-post" wiring, where bare copper
> is routed between ceramic posts screwed to the wall, and small ceramic
> tubes slide over the bare wires to eliminate shock and shorting hazards.
> Insulation using natural rubber and fabric was widespread.
>
> (the wiring insulation in the first electric motor was silk thread,
> hand-wrapped around the bare copper by the inventor and his wife.)
>
I remember my grandfather, who was an electrician in the navy during WW1,
telling stories of the novel things they used to wrap wiring with. One
story involved a man he worked with who helped string the transmission
lines at the worlds' first AC power plant outside Telluride, Colorado. They
initially let the lines stay bare to the elements, wrapped only by
plow-cable steel for support. After too many lightning strikes during
frequent mountain storms, they contacted the company that had recently
begun making film for the fledgling motion picture industry. They ended up
wrapping the lines with over 1000 miles of cellulose film stock. It worked
well. Newspaper stock was also used inside in those days to wrap wires.
I quote from 'The Rio Grande Southern Story', an excellent book on a turn
of the century railroad in Colorado, which tells of the first AC power
plant:
'Pioneer work in a power plant operating at 3000 volts presented many
hazards. Employees were taught to keep one hand in their pocket while
working with the other one. Procedures were often improvised. For example,
breaking the circuit was achieved by the operator pulling a plug from a
receptacle. A wooden lever, with a handle covered with rubber, was
connected to the plug. To pull the plug and break the circuit, the operator
grasped the handle and then jumped back as fast and as far as he could.
Often, the result was a six-foot high-voltage arc the employees learned to
break with a "whiff from the attendant's hat." Amazingly there is no record
of a serious accident ever occurring at the Ames power plant.'
--
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite
you. That is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Samuel Clemens