Peace Bonding Explained
David A. Z.
<j...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> asked:
>I have seen the phrase "peace bonded" mentioned in a few con brochures,
>talking about replica weapons used as part of costumes, and was wondering
>what it means.
When Arisia first started out, it allowed peace bonding
weapons, largely since it wanted to prove that it was "better"
than Boskone which had always prohibited weapons entirely.
One of my costumes is supposed to have a weapon. By
"supposed to" I mean that it was a recreation of a specific
costume, the uniform worn by Vril Dox of L.E.G.I.O.N '89 when he
killed a planetary leader/drug lord in what I considered to be a
intriguing ending scene.
The Con-com clearly stated that peace bonding of all
weapons, real or otherwise was needed, and that peace bonding
meant that it had to be affixed to its holder so that it could
not be drawn easily.
Now, the weapon in question was some sort of "space gun" in
a nice white holster. I opted to use an off-the-shelf plastic
Zebra-disc gun since it was the right size and sort of the right
shape and color, and would look ok'ish esp. since it wasn't going
to pulled from its holster anyway. I did some work to make a
somewhat reasonable replica holster modeled on the original comic
book drawings and formed specifically around the Zebra gun in
question, and covered in white vinyl.
In order to peace-bond the gun, I incorporated a length of
14-gauge insulated copper wire into the bottom of the holster, so
that it could to tied to finger grip of the gun. I figured that
would make a more than adequate peace bonding since it was a hell
of a lot stronger than both the actual gun and holster combined.
So, at the con, I went to register the weapon with Ops, and
was told that it had to be peace bonded which they offered to do
for me, by tying a stupid ugly blue ribbon to it which would
have, in my opinion, looked hideously stupid and ugly. I told
them it was only a plastic Zebra gun and that it was already
peace bonded, and showed him the double-knotted 14-gauge copper
wire around the finger grip, which wasn't ugly, since it was
located inside the holster where you couldn't see it.
The person at Ops told me that the head of security would
have to check it out first.
So I gave it to the head of security, who took a look at it,
said, "Oh... a Zebra Gun" and went to check out the peace bonding
himself stating somewhat proudly, that he had always been able to
"get through" every peace bonding he had ever seen.
So, without any chance for me to say anything, he grabbed
the holster with one hand, grabbed the gun handle with the other,
and pulled, presumably as hard as he could. After 15 or 20
seconds of huffing, he had managed to do a small amount of
cosmetic damage and a light to moderate amount of structural
damage to the holster, but didn't do any detectable amount of
damage to either the gun or the wire. He made no detectable
progress in actually removing the gun from the holster other
than bringing the holster a little closer to catastrophic
failure. He then complimented me on my workmanship, saying that
it was pretty good and no other peace bonding had ever withstood
his "test". He then proceeded to tie the damn stupid ugly ribbon
on it ANYWAY, refusing to listen to any other argument by me.
Now, let me take a moment to list some things that I think
can be easily ascertained from the experience:
A) Peace bonding isn't to prevent accidents with dangerous
weapons. There's nothing dangerous about an unloaded toy plastic
Zebra gun, which incidently, was not a the color of any real gun
I've ever seen, and if pulled, would look exactly like a toy
plastic Zebra gun and nothing else.
B) Peace bonding isn't to keep a weapon in its holster,
that was already taken care of, and besides, the flimsy blue
ribbon would have quickly failed the same test that the wire
passed. In fact, many other people had to retie them when they
fell off or broke by accident, and some weapons were "peace
bonded" with the ribbon in such a way that they could in fact be
pulled and replaced leaving the ribbon intact.
C) Peace bonding isn't to prove that a weapon hadn't been
pulled, the stupid blue ribbon could easily be retied if it were.
D) The reasons for peace-bonding given by the Con-con are
clearly a bunch of B.S. since they almost always state (including
in this instance) that peace-bonding is to prevent to weapon from
being pulled, which is clearly not true.
Therefore, I think that it is quite reasonable to say that
peace bonding serves the purpose of allowing the Con-com/Security
people to feel important. This is actually a good thing in many
ways, since it is a more socially positive than having them to
feel important by banning weapons altogether.
Sorry about the lengthy story, but I hope this answers
everyone's questions on peace bonding.
A friend of mine would like me to also like point out that
this reason for peace bonding is also the reason for a great number
of other things.
Btw, on a related story, I remember a sign at the
registration desk at Noreascon III that stating in the very big
letters "ABSOLUTELY NO ONE WITH A REAL WEAPON WILL BE ALLOWED TO
REGISTER. NO EXCEPTIONS WHAT-SO-EVER." I wondered if, in the
event that someone with a loaded AK-47 and the will and
competence to use it would try to register, if they really would
enforce this rule both to their deaths and beyond. (Though in
all honesty, I think they were just very confused about the entire
issue.)
Cordially,
Daz (@gnu.ai.mit.edu)
bak...@ducky.ils.nwu.edu
<...>
: You have encountered ONE example of a concom who did NOT do
: peace bonding properly. That does not invalidate the reasons
: why it was started. The local cons use plastic ties that cannot be
: easily removed. Peacebonding is highly recommended but people
: with plastic toy weapons may chose to ignore it. But if anything
: happens and you are not peacebonded then the concom is not
: inclined to be "merciful".
Actually, the reverse is true. Using the method explained by Roxanne,
if you are not peace-bonded, it is assuned that you *dont* know the
rules, and you are directed to ops to have them explained to you. If
there is a problem after that, ops merely follows the procedure that
was explained. It's hard to argue when you agreed to the rules by
putting on the peace bond.
______________________________________________________________________________
| Michael J. Bakula
| UNIX Systems Administrator
This space | The Institute for the Learning Sciences
intentionally | Northwestern University
left blank. | 1890 Maple Avenue, Suite 320
| Evanston, IL 60201-3159
| bak...@ils.nwu.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul King
> You have encountered ONE example of a concom who did NOT do
> peace bonding properly. That does not invalidate the reasons
> why it was started. The local cons use plastic ties that cannot be
> easily removed. Peacebonding is highly recommended but people
> with plastic toy weapons may chose to ignore it. But if anything
> happens and you are not peacebonded then the concom is not
> inclined to be "merciful".
I think you are still missing the point. Peace-bonding
does not can not will not prevent intentional mayhem. Peace
bonding prevents someone who is untutored in weapon handling
from pulling his or someone else's wepon. There is nothing
you can do (with my consent) that I can not undo in less than
about five seconds if I'm determined to draw my sword.
It also makes local law-enforcement sit a bit easier and
ensure that the rules relating to weapon handling are
followed. That's all it does. Oh, they may also confuse
a drunk long enough for reasonable hands to take over.
The plastic ties will part under the cutting part of a
pair of needlenose pliers, the knife on my keyring, or a
small piece of leverage. Plastic ties are only useful against
someone trying to remove them with bare hands.
-Paul
Free Hugs Purple Vertigo
Boston-Baden
spoken to the con people, and know the rules; (2) anyone can see
(by virtue of the ribbon) that you've spoken to the con people,
and know the rules; and (3) neither you nor anyone else is likely
to *casually* grab the weapon and flail about with it.
Note I said *properly executed*. (If you run into an assholic
Security dept., as you did, all bets are off.)
On a possibly related note,
Loscon a few years back changed the name of their "Security" department
to "Operations." The function remains the same, but they found it
resulted in a remarkable attitude shift among their workers.
If you're interested in more on this, I'll pick Robbie Cantor's
brains and distill her best comments for posting.
chaz baden, ha...@netcom.com, (310) 542-5849, fax (310) 542-7948
p.o. box 1792, redondo beach ca 90278
Birthplace of Margarita Jell-O, an alcoholic use for lime jell-o.
(Ask me how)
Mike Scott
d...@gnu.ai.mit.edu "David A. Z." writes:
> A) Peace bonding isn't to prevent accidents with dangerous
>weapons. There's nothing dangerous about an unloaded toy plastic
>Zebra gun, which incidently, was not a the color of any real gun
>I've ever seen, and if pulled, would look exactly like a toy
>plastic Zebra gun and nothing else.
>
Sorry, but walking around with a non-peace-bonded gun is extremely
dangerous, no matter how harmless the gun itself may be. The danger is
that that moron with the two-handed sword will see that you're walking
around with a gun with no peace-bonding and then give the committee
endless hassle about how they're discriminating against him, or just
take it upon himself to remove the peace-bonding. This is why *all*
weapons, no matter how harmless, must be *visibly* peace-bonded if
you're going to have any peace-bonding policy at all. Having said that,
I agree that the security guy was out of order in testing your own
bonding to destruction - it was after all pointless to do so since if it
ain't visible it ain't peace-bonding.
--
Mike Scott || Confabulation is the 1995 UK national SF convention
Mi...@moose.demon.co.uk || Mail Con...@moose.demon.co.uk for more details
Danny Low
: I think you are still missing the point. Peace-bonding
: bonding prevents someone who is untutored in weapon handling
: from pulling his or someone else's wepon.
I have stated in another posting that this is exactly the
original intent of peace bonding and why it came about.
Danny Low
"Question Authority and the Authorities will question You"
Valley of Hearts Delight, Silicon Valley
HP NSD dl...@ppg01.sc.hp.com
Danny Low
: *Properly executed* a peace-bonding ribbon means that (1) you've
: spoken to the con people, and know the rules; (2) anyone can see
: (by virtue of the ribbon) that you've spoken to the con people,
: and know the rules; and (3) neither you nor anyone else is likely
: to *casually* grab the weapon and flail about with it.
Since the INTENT is to prevent ACCIDENTS, the ribbon is a bad
idea. You want something like the plastic ties which are
hard to ACCIDENTALLY break.
Roxanne
The issue here is: How to let costumers wear the weapon designed to be
worn with their costume without causing undue grief and injury?
The solution: The Peace Bond.
In practice, this means that you go to Operations, and they give you
a lecture on what you don't do with the weapon. Such as: pull a sword
in a crowded room, stage a knife fight, handle the weapon carelessly.
There are more, but it boils down to "Don't be stupid."
Some of my friends have really beautiful swords; I don't want them to
have them locked into a scabard all weekend. But they must know the
rules and be willing to abide by them. The way we keep from having
every ConCom member stop every weapon-carrier is to have a noticeable
Peace Bond attached. It's sort of a sign that says: It's Okay; Bearer
Already Heard The Lecture.
Education is always the best solution. In prior years we had demos of
stage-fighting and weapons use. I encourage this. If you have a weapon,
you should know how to use it. Otherwise it is likely that it will be
used against you.
At Capricon, we ban all projectile weapons, like SuperSoakers, bows,
etc. An unstrung bow may be carried as part of a costume, as an
unstrung bow is less a weapon than a good staff is. Projectile weapons
are just a Bad Idea. If you want to carry a gun, we recommend lasers
under 5 milliwatts, or a nice Isher Artifact model. If it once could
shoot bullets, we don't want it. Or any realistic looking toys. The
possibilities for misunderstanding are too great, and we have a standard
policy of not believing that the chamber is empty.
Of course, again, my son (age 18 months) will happily demonstrate that
*anything* can be a projectile weapon, if viewed correctly. Also, I
have had a broadened definition of the term "weapon" ever since I took
up knitting in order to carry 14-inch aluminum stilettos, er, needles
on the New York City Subway.
If you misbehave, we let you know. Capricon has had much less trouble
with weapons over the years than with drunken college students. Maybe
if we just introduced group A (weapons owners) to group B (drunken
students).... Hmmm..... (I'm kidding! I'm kidding!)
Peace Bonding, as practiced by Capricon, is not to disable the weapon,
but to let the public know that the weapon-bearer Has Been Warned and
is *personally* responsible for any harm caused by the weapon.
Personal responsibility ... what a concept!
- Roxanne
Tim Weaver
> B) Peace bonding isn't to keep a weapon in its holster,
> that was already taken care of, and besides, the flimsy blue
> ribbon would have quickly failed the same test that the wire
> passed. In fact, many other people had to retie them when they
> fell off or broke by accident, and some weapons were "peace
> bonded" with the ribbon in such a way that they could in fact be
> pulled and replaced leaving the ribbon intact.
>
> C) Peace bonding isn't to prove that a weapon hadn't been
> pulled, the stupid blue ribbon could easily be retied if it
> were.
>
that it had been checked. A nice visible symbol like that means that
all the security folks don't have to keep bothering you all through
the con. If you didn't like the one security person yanking on your
gun, think how you would feel if various security people walked up to
you all through the con and yanked on it.
For what it's worth, I think the security person yanking with all his
strength is far too excessive and he should be flogged. There's no
need to go breaking fan equipment. You only need to make sure that
it's not easily removable from the holster. It' shouldn't be
necessary to make sure Ah'nold can't dis-arm you.
--
| Timothy E. Weaver | Kalamazoo College | (616) 337-7239 |
| Microcomputer Coordinator | 1200 Academy | These are MY opinions! |
| email: twe...@kzoo.edu | Kalamazoo MI 49006 | Mine!! Mine!! Mine!! |
Richard McAllister
>On a possibly related note,
>Loscon a few years back changed the name of their "Security" department
>to "Operations." The function remains the same, but they found it
>resulted in a remarkable attitude shift among their workers.
I remember Tom Whitmore explaining this to me a few years ago when I
expressed doubt that just changing the name would accomplish anything. What
Tom pointed out was there is a certain kind of person who won't volunteer
for "operations", since that sounds like boring work (just running the con,
how dull), but will volunteer for "security" because that sounds like a
chance to have fun playing cop. That kind of person is exactly the kind you
don't want on staff.
Rich
--
Rich McAllister (r...@eng.sun.com)
Martin Schafer
This is the same reasoning that led us to resist walkie-talkies for
several years. We did finally give in, and it did have its negative
effects on the wearers as well as improving communications.
David Medinnus
> don't want on staff.
>
They have not invented a number large enough to measure the amount with
which I agree with that statement.
------------------------------------------------------------------
David Medinnus - faf...@shakala.com
Shakala BBS (ClanZen Radio Network) Sunnyvale, CA +1-408-734-2289
Bruce Adelsohn
>In article <2ku762...@uwm.edu>, John Joseph Phillips
><j...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> asked:
>
>>I have seen the phrase "peace bonded" mentioned in a few con brochures,
>>talking about replica weapons used as part of costumes, and was wondering
>>what it means.
[Story of peace bonded weapon at Arisia deleted; each following point has
been edited to its essential statement.]
> Now, let me take a moment to list some things that I think
>can be easily ascertained from the experience:
>
> A) Peace bonding isn't to prevent accidents with dangerous
>weapons.
>
> B) Peace bonding isn't to keep a weapon in its holster...
>In fact, many other people had to retie them when they
>fell off or broke by accident, and some weapons were "peace
>bonded" with the ribbon in such a way that they could in fact be
>pulled and replaced leaving the ribbon intact.
>
> C) Peace bonding isn't to prove that a weapon hadn't been
>pulled, the stupid blue ribbon could easily be retied if it were.
>
> D) The reasons for peace-bonding given by the Con-con are
>clearly a bunch of B.S. since they almost always state (including
>in this instance) that peace-bonding is to prevent to weapon from
>being pulled, which is clearly not true.
>
> Therefore, I think that it is quite reasonable to say that
>peace bonding serves the purpose of allowing the Con-com/Security
>people to feel important. This is actually a good thing in many
>ways, since it is a more socially positive than having them to
>feel important by banning weapons altogether.
Peace bonding is not BS. It serves several important purposes. Yes, the
purpose of preventing a weapon from being drawn is important, and was well
served by your own method. However, that is only one of two equally
important purposes for peace bonding; the second one is one you have
overlooked.
Peace bonding is required, in many cases, for insurance and liability
reasons. If an incident occurs at a convention, the concom -- which can
mean either a corporation or individuals who make all of this possible --
may be held liable for injury or damage. Peace bonding serves as a means
for the concom to protect themselves and the convention, both this year and
next (and the ones following that!) from ugly and hurtful litigation. In
requiring peace bonding, the committee lets the hotel/convention center know
that it is acting responsibly and, at the registration/peace bonding check
in, reinforces the agreement the member has made to act responsibly by
acknowledging the rules on each side.
I should mention here that I am NOT an attorney, and that my knowledge of
this area derives from hearing discussions on this subject between an
attorney and a concom I was on. For details, consult a good lawyer.
IMO, peace bonding is not perfect -- but is, like democracy, eight times
better than anything else we have yet devised (credit Robert A. Heinlein).
Eliezer Shlomo Yudkowsky
Magic-users have to wear a chainmail belt.
Psychics wear lead helmets.
--
pho...@mcs.com Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/
_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
"I'm sorry, my karma ran over your dogma."
Disclaimer: I don't work for a major corporation, but if I did, the above
text would not represent its opinions in any way.
Boston-Baden
Throwaway .sig material: Security guards are those who want to be cops;
Con security are those who can't make it as security guards...
Back to the topic at hand. In Robbie's Operations Manual, she explains
how a walkie-talkie doesn't make you Important; it makes you Available.
It means that she (that is, Operations) has control over your movements
24 hours a day, as long as you've got that radio on. Does that make you
important? It sounds like she just made you a slave.
chaz baden, ha...@netcom.com, (310) 542-5849, fax (310) 542-7948
Birthplace of Margarita Jell-O, an alcoholic use for lime jell-o
(Ask me how) P.O. Box 1792, Redondo Beach CA 90278, USA
Eric Pawtowski
David A. Z. <d...@gnu.ai.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> In order to peace-bond the gun, I incorporated a length of
>14-gauge insulated copper wire into the bottom of the holster, so
>that it could to tied to finger grip of the gun. I figured that
>would make a more than adequate peace bonding since it was a hell
>of a lot stronger than both the actual gun and holster combined.
>
purposes of peace bonding is to prevent someone from drawing a weapon
in ject and accidentaly hurting someone. Your copper wire handles
that very well.
However, one of the other purposes of peacebonding is so that the rest
of the attendees dont' feel threatened by all the weapons around.
When someone brings in a scabbard with a fake hilt glued to it,
we STILL put bright orange tape on it. After all, nobody can tell that
the scabbard doesn't have a real blade in it, and somone might be allarmed
by what appears to be an easily-drawable weapon. Besides, if we allowed
"inobvious" peacebonding, that can't be checked at a glance, people
would start faking it.
Addmittedly, we normaly don't bother to peace-bond toy guns, unless they
could concievably look like a real gun in its holster. In which case,
weather or not it can be drawn is irrelevent: it has to have the
bright tape.
--
****epaw...@polaris.async.vt.edu or epaw...@vt.edu********************
Technicon 11 - April 15-17 1994, Blacksburg, VA: SF& Fantasy return to
SW Virginia! Also, Host of StarFleet Batron 11 conference and High
Flight, a convention for Queen's Own, the Mercedes Lackey fan club.
Covert C Beach
: A) Peace bonding isn't to prevent accidents with dangerous
: weapons. There's nothing dangerous about an unloaded toy plastic
Unless of course the toy plastic gun is pointed by an idiot fan at
the nice SWAT officers who have been called in response to a report
of terrorists taking over a hotel. (Mundanes sometimes just don't
understand what is going on. :-) Who can blame them? I have been
going to cons for about 15 years now and I sometimes just don't
understand what is going on...)
--
Covert C Beach
dra...@access.digex.net
David A. Z.
> A) Peace bonding isn't to prevent accidents with dangerous
>weapons. There's nothing dangerous about an unloaded toy plastic
>Zebra gun, which incidently, was not a the color of any real gun
>I've ever seen, and if pulled, would look exactly like a toy
>plastic Zebra gun and nothing else.
Dra...@access1.digex.net (Covert C Beach) quotes only the first
two lines of this:
> David A. Z. (d...@gnu.ai.mit.edu) wrote:
> : A) Peace bonding isn't to prevent accidents with dangerous
> : weapons. There's nothing dangerous about an unloaded toy plastic
And replies:
> Unless of course the toy plastic gun is pointed by an idiot fan at
> the nice SWAT officers who have been called in response to a report
> of terrorists taking over a hotel. (Mundanes sometimes just don't
> understand what is going on. :-) Who can blame them? I have been
> going to cons for about 15 years now and I sometimes just don't
> understand what is going on...)
Except if it was a Zebra gun, which incidently, was not the color
of any real gun I've even seen, and if pulled, would look exactly like
a toy plastic Zebra gun and nothing else.
Come on people... isn't flaming partial quotes out of
context just a little, (tries to think of a good adjective that wouldn't
offend two many people on rec.arts.sf.fandom...) umm.... sleazy?
- Daz
David A. Z.
>Back to the topic at hand. In Robbie's Operations Manual, she explains
>how a walkie-talkie doesn't make you Important; it makes you Available.
>It means that she (that is, Operations) has control over your movements
>24 hours a day, as long as you've got that radio on. Does that make you
>important? It sounds like she just made you a slave.
Univat n jnyxvr-gnyxvr vf n ybg yvxr univat n cravf.
Lbh guvax gung rirelbar ryfr vf ernyyl vzcerffrq ol vg, orpnhfr
lbh arrq gb engvbanyvmr gur vaperqvnoyr vapbaivranapr bs orvat
fhowrpgrq vgf pbafgnagyl qvfgenpgvat juvzf.
Ba gur bgure unaq, vg vf qnza avpr gb unir bar jura lbh
arrq vg...
- Qnm
Simon E Spero
>In article <2lguvq$a...@access1.digex.net> dra...@access1.digex.net (Covert C Beach) writes:
>>
>>Unless of course the toy plastic gun is pointed by an idiot fan at
>>the nice SWAT officers who have been called in response to a report
>>of terrorists taking over a hotel. (Mundanes sometimes just don't
I can believe that. At Imperial College, London, I heard of serveral
near international incidents caused by games of Killer during rag weeks.
Of course, occupying the no-mans-land between the Iraqi, Kuwati, and Iranian
embassies didn't help.
--
Hackers Local 42- National Union of Computer Operatives, Chapel Hill section
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tar Heel Information Services - Nothing but net! | WAIS/Z39.50 spoken here
North Carolina - First in Usenet | DoD #612 | Tel: +1-919-962-9107
Covert C Beach
>In article <2lguvq$a...@access1.digex.net> dra...@access1.digex.net
(Covert C Beach) writes:
>>the nice SWAT officers who have been called in response to a report
>>of terrorists taking over a hotel.
>*SSSCCCREEEEEECHCCHCHCHH!!!*
>
>Y'know, I've heard this since it purportedly happened, at a (Disclave?)
>in the late 70's, and heard it from at least one friend who was supposedly
>at the con. He told me that he heard that the cop called censured for
>*not* blowing away the 12-year-old.
Disclave 1980. At the Hostility- er. Hospitality House Hotel in
Crystal City, VA just across the river from DC. I hadn't heard about
the police officer being censured, but it was my second con and I had
no involvement with running it back then.
>After all these years, I just thought of *one* question, and wonder if
>*anyone* can answer it: if this really happened, why didn't the cops
>call the hotel, *first*, to find out if this was a real problem, or
>just a crank call?
This was in 1980 in the DC area. Terrorism fears were running high.
I don't know, but I would guess that Arlington Co. SWAT made the call
that it was better to respond, and check with the hotel while they were
getting in position, and the fan in question pulled his toy before the
all-clear was given.
Steve Smith
>In article <2lguvq$a...@access1.digex.net> dra...@access1.digex.net (Covert C Beach) writes:
>Y'know, I've heard this since it purportedly happened, at a (Disclave?)
>in the late 70's, and heard it from at least one friend who was supposedly
>at the con. He told me that he heard that the cop called censured for
>*not* blowing away the 12-year-old.
>After all these years, I just thought of *one* question, and wonder if
>*anyone* can answer it: if this really happened, why didn't the cops
>call the hotel, *first*, to find out if this was a real problem, or
>just a crank call?
> mark "inquiring minds, and all that"
Disclave 1980, Hospitality House (since destroyed, Allah be praised).
Yah, I vass dere. The Hostility House just happened to be the closest
hotel to the Pentagon. The "terrorist" that somebody reported was
carrying a *real* LAW missile case. Also if the cops had called the
hotel management, the "terrorists" would have had time to stroll over
to the Pentagon, do their business, and escape on foot before they got
through. Hostility House management ranged between ridiculous and
disgusting.
The cop was not censured for not blowing the kid away. There was a
statement somewhere (I don't remember if it was in any way official)
that if he *had* blown the kid away that he would have been justified.
The concom sent the police a letter of thanks for *not* shooting the
kid. The cops, BTW, were neither friendly nor polite.
Remember that big city cops have *NO* sense of humor about weapons.
None.
--
Steve Smith Agincourt Computing
s...@access.digex.net (301) 681 7395
"Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense."
David A. Z.
<cro...@access.digex.net> wrote:
)In article <2lfu9r...@life.ai.mit.edu> d...@gnu.ai.mit.edu writes:
)
)> Univat n jnyxvr-gnyxvr vf n ybg yvxr univat n cravf.
)> Lbh guvax gung rirelbar ryfr vf ernyyl vzcerffrq ol vg, orpnhfr
)> lbh arrq gb engvbanyvmr gur vaperqvnoyr vapbaivranapr bs orvat
)> fhowrpgrq vgf pbafgnagyl qvfgenpgvat juvzf.
)>
)> Ba gur bgure unaq, vg vf qnza avpr gb unir bar jura lbh
)> arrq vg...
>Damn right, especially when the klutz in front of you just inhaled a handful
>of chips and is now choking......
Gehr. Gubhtu, rguvpnyyl fcrnxvat, lbh fubhyq cebonoyl jnvg
sbe gurz gb fgbc pubxvat orsber lbh shpx gurz.
rath...@pa881a.inland.com
Un, un, un. Jbhyq gung or rguvpnyyl fcrnxvat be cenpgnpnyyl fcrnxnat?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Katie Rathslag | I'm pink, therefore... |
| rath...@pa881a.inland.com | ...I'm Spam. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Isn't there a Stuckey's on this damn superhighway?" - Me
Elf Sternberg
Francis A. Ney, Jr. <cro...@access.digex.net> wrote:
)In article <2lfu9r...@life.ai.mit.edu> d...@gnu.ai.mit.edu writes:
>)> Univat n jnyxvr-gnyxvr vf n ybg yvxr univat n cravf.
)> Lbh guvax gung rirelbar ryfr vf ernyyl vzcerffrq ol vg, orpnhfr
)> lbh arrq gb engvbanyvmr gur vaperqvnoyr vapbaivranapr bs orvat
)> fhowrpgrq vgf pbafgnagyl qvfgenpgvat juvzf.
)>
)> Ba gur bgure unaq, vg vf qnza avpr gb unir bar jura lbh
)> arrq vg...
>Damn right, especially when the klutz in front of you just inhaled a handful
>of chips and is now choking......
And thus dies one of the oldest and finest traditions Usenet
ever had: the enconding of possibly offensive material. After the
Bobbit case, I can't understand why Daz chose to rotate a reference
to the word 'penis' (seeing as CNN used the word reguarly), but I
respect his right to do so.
It used to be that on newsgroups where you felt you were
posting material that might offend someone, you rotated the
alphabetic characters of your article thirteen to the right, so that
a->n, b->o, c->p...y->l, z->m. The 'tr' command on how to create
rotated articles is in every Unix manual I own.
Francis, take a look at the 'help' file for your newsreader,
and you'll see an entry at the 'read an article' level called
'display article in rot13' or 'display article rotated.' Then you
can read Daz's, and anyone else's, rotated articles to your heart's
content.
Daz isn't choking, he's being polite. Which is more than I
can say for you. RTFM before you go making yourself look like a
fool... again.
Elf !!!
--
After careful examination of my extensive e-mail archive, you
may inform the President that I am not withholding any electronic records
regarding the Whitewater investigation.
- e...@halcyon.com
David A. Z.
<cro...@access.digex.net> attempted to correct article
<2m0bg8$n...@access3.digex.net> to read as following:
> Remember that cops have *NO* sense of humor.
I used to think that too, until a friend of mine explained
otherwise. You see, almost all cops have a sense of humor. It's
just not readily apparent because thier sense of humor is very
different from fen humor and humor from most other walks of life.
Example of Cop Humor:
1st cop: Now that the handcuff's are on, I'll hit him again...
2nd cop: *HA* *HA* *HA*
3rd cop: *whack* *HA* *HA* *HA*
1st cop: *whack* *whack* *whack* *HA* *HA* *HA*
3rd cop: He looks like he's hurt pretty bad...
All cops: *HA* *HA* *HA*
Important Note: All cops are trained civil servants. Don't try jokes
like this at home.
Francis A. Ney, Jr.
In article <2m5b8g$j...@usenet.rpi.edu> kas...@rpi.edu writes:
> In article <znr763740759k@Digex>, croaker@nowhere (Francis A. Ney, Jr.) writes:
> |>
> |> In article <2m0bg8$n...@access3.digex.net> s...@access3.digex.net writes:
> |>
> |> > Remember that big city cops have *NO* sense of humor about weapons.
> |> ^^^^^^^^ ^
> |> delete these words period goes here
> |>
> |> That's why I'm a libertarian.
>
> I didn't know that the libertarian platform included a sense of humor
> for peace officers.
No, but libertarians do insist on police understanding the oath they took when
they took the badge and uniform. Many take the job because they are power
geeks and consider the constitution an impediment. In fact, insist on your
rights in some areas (including DC) and you will find out what it's like to be
a baby harp seal. Especially if your melanin content does not conform to
local norm (or match the melanin content of the police official in question).
Police work for us, not the other way around. In theory, anyway.
The reality sucks.
End of tirade.
I will admit that there are police officers with a true vocation. These I
have absolutely no problem with. All of these have read the constitution and
all understand and take their oath seriously. All of the social encounters I
have had with law enforcement have been with this type. Most of the official
encounters I have had with law enforcement have been with the other type.
Needless to say my opinions are biased in this regard. YMMV.
Frank Ney EMT-A N4ZHG LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA 'M-O-U-S-E'
--
"Apparently on New Texas, killing a politician was not _mallum in se_, and was
_mallum prohibitorum_ only to the extent that what the politician got was in
excess of what he deserved."
-H. Beam Piper, _Lone Star Planet/A Planet For Texans_
Danny Low
: No, but libertarians do insist on police understanding the oath they took when
: geeks and consider the constitution an impediment.
This is like insisting that people tell the truth when they
swear they are telling the truth. It's a mom's apple pie
issue. Everyone, not just libertarians, is for it. ENFORCING
it is another matter altogether. I doubt if libertarians are
going to be any better than anyone else at this.
mark
>In article <znr763740759k@Digex>, croaker@nowhere (Francis A. Ney, Jr.) writes:
>|>
>|> In article <2m0bg8$n...@access3.digex.net> s...@access3.digex.net writes:
>|>
>|> delete these words period goes here
>|>
>|> That's why I'm a libertarian.
>
> I didn't know that the libertarian platform included a sense of humor
>for peace officers.
Only if they can afford to buy one. And you'd better watch out for the
one libertarian who's trying to corner the market on senses of humor...
he does that, and no one who makes less than $.5M a year will be able
to even *look* at one....
mark "keeping a low profile with mine"
Chris Croughton
>> I didn't know that the libertarian platform included a sense of humor
>>for peace officers.
>
>Only if they can afford to buy one. And you'd better watch out for the
>one libertarian who's trying to corner the market on senses of humor...
>he does that, and no one who makes less than $.5M a year will be able
>to even *look* at one....
Rubbish. I will personally undertake to undercut the prices of anyone
trying to charge for a sense of humour[1] by at least 2%[2]...
[1] That's a British sense of humour, not an American sense of humor.
I charge more for the American type because they are in short supply
over here...
[2] Yes, I will undercut myself as well...
> mark "keeping a low profile with mine"
Just don't aim it in my direction, or that of innocent bystanders, and
we'll all keep our own ones under control. Sharp wits, however, must be
piece-bonded...
Hail Eris!
***********************************************************************
* ch...@keris.demon.co.uk * *
* chr...@cix.compulink.co.uk * FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life) *
* 10001...@compuserve.com * *
***********************************************************************