PS:T - The Nameless One's Name [SPOILER] (Was: Gonna give Planescape: Torment a go)
Hermann Hesse
instead I posted it as a reply to it at the end of a long thread. I mean no
disrespect to those who replied to it.
> > I'm going to claim to be Adahn every time the option comes up. I've
> > heard that you can actually create an Adahn if you do that.
>
> I am not 100% sure but I think the Adahn thing may make you more chaotic,
> so if you're going for lawful you might want to do these two ideas under
> different plays through.
Speaking of the Nameless One's Name, did any of you ever use the Bronze
Sphere after talking to the practical incarnation? Once you found out that
it was a dead sensory stone containing a memory from the first incarnation,
you could use it (but then you'd lose it, and the option to use it in the
final meeting with your mortality as well), and it'd reveal the memory.
In the memory, the first incarnation reveals the Nameless One's true name
(but the it doesn't actually display it in text). You do ask however, "So
that was my name all along?" All along suggests that you've heard it before.
Obviously you're not Adahn, since you meet him in the Smoldering Corpse
after coming back from the grand tour of the planes. In the list of your
aliases that you find in the tomb, the journal, and at the pillar of skulls,
you come across the name 'Yemeth'. That's the only mentioning of a decent
name I have found.
Yet, your mortality claims that your name is not important, what's important
is the name you've earned.
Apparently, there is a quest that I - and every walkthrough I've read - has
missed. Perhaps it was removed, but the dialog for the quest wasn't. The two
abishai in the Smoldering Corpse can offer you a quest to retrieve a magical
item from a fiend disguised as a collector. This item is called the Pendant
of Yemeth.
Lo and behold:
"The item is named for its creator, a sorcerer of a by-gone age. Though
Yemeth's power was great, time began to take its toll on him; he began to
grow weak and sodden. The Pendant was commissioned by the dying wizard to
serve as a vessel for souls -- souls which Yemeth himself would draw from
dying mortals, and later use to power his waning life-force. Yemeth was
eventually slain in a battle, destroyed utterly, and the Pendant was lost.
Sages said that, even if the Pendant were to be recovered, no mortal knows
the secrets of its use.
You're certain that you've seen this pendant before -- or perhaps even worn
it."
Interesting, no?
"'Tis a vessel, no more. The pendant can ensnare a soul as it flees its
dying shell, entrapping it before it moves on to its proper Plane of
existence. It was commissioned by a mortal sorcerer of no small power,
Yemeth. He sought immortality, but the idea of lichdom repulsed him.
According to his journals, his studies of necromancy's darkest lore inspired
the device's construction. With it, he could capture souls and use their
essences to prolong his own existence, fueling his life force even as it
waned."
Now, the tomb was built by the practical incarnation, the journal was
written by the paranoid incarnation - who also altered the tomb, yet it was
the good incarnation that actually was the first incarnation. But the Pillar
of Skulls also mentioned this name. In writing the name Yemeth, did the
they, too, know the true name of the Nameless One? Unlikely. But why would
the Pillar call you Yemeth, if that wasn't indeed the true name of the
Nameless One?
And the story of the pendant and Yemeth fits into the first incarnations
search for immortality a little too well, don't you think? But the
description "dying mage", "weak and sodden" doesn't fit as well. More
likely, it was just an item the first incarnation sought and aquired in his
search for immortality.
Hm. Consider this: if it indeed was the first/good incarnation that had
Ignus in his company (the practical incarnation's company of 4 is
well-known, and the paranoid incarnation obviously didn't have any
followers), he was a very powerful mage. Most likely a necromancer too,
since Deionarra can awaken his ability to raise dead. Ah, but then again -
she travelled with the practical incarnation, who, for that matter, could've
inherited the power from the first incarnation.
The other incarnations might have been deceived, but would the pillar also
be deceived? Well, you can trick it, and it is not all-powerful.
Is the quest of the Pendant of Yemeth out there - or was it removed because
it caused to story to become either too incoherent or too revealing. The
script writers apparently wanted to keep the Nameless One nameless.
Well, I don't.
Any suggestions?
// Hermann
Daniel Sjöblom
>
>
> Apparently, there is a quest that I - and every walkthrough I've read - has
> missed. Perhaps it was removed, but the dialog for the quest wasn't. The two
> abishai in the Smoldering Corpse can offer you a quest to retrieve a magical
> item from a fiend disguised as a collector. This item is called the Pendant
> of Yemeth.
Hmm, what exactly are you saying here ? The quest was removed but the
dialog wasn't ? I'm confused. How do you get this quest ? I always
thought the fiends,the mercykillers and Ilquix in the Smoldering Corpse
where sort of strange and halfdone, so I've been wondering if I've
missed something there.
The nameless ones role in the Blood War seems somehow related to the
fiends, although I'm not sure how.
Hermann Hesse
has
> > missed. Perhaps it was removed, but the dialog for the quest wasn't. The
two
> > abishai in the Smoldering Corpse can offer you a quest to retrieve a
magical
> > item from a fiend disguised as a collector. This item is called the
Pendant
> > of Yemeth.
>
> Hmm, what exactly are you saying here ? The quest was removed but the
> dialog wasn't ?
Open the file Dialog.tlk in word or a text editor, and search for the word
Yemeth. Every walkthrough/item listing ripped the item lists from it, so
they all list the Pendant of Yemeth and other non-existing items, but not
how you get it.
You can also search for Rake-Chaser - did anyone ever meet her? She's
involved in the abishai/pendant quest, but I've never found her.
The file is a mess of strings though, I can't quite figure out how they are
related to each other.
> I'm confused. How do you get this quest ? I always
> thought the fiends,the mercykillers and Ilquix in the Smoldering Corpse
> where sort of strange and halfdone, so I've been wondering if I've
> missed something there.
You can't get the quest, it seems. It doesn't have an entry in quests.ini,
at least. It's possible that it was a last-minute removal, because it
revealed too much.
> The nameless ones role in the Blood War seems somehow related to the
> fiends, although I'm not sure how.
It seems that some things are half-done, or just flavour. What about the
mime artist trapped in an invisible box? Is there a way to help him?
// Hermann
Brian H.
"Hermann Hesse" <hr_h...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u4O79.4758$HY3.1...@newsc.telia.net...
(* snipped for inspiring spoilers about TNO's name *)
>
>
Gosh... I totally missed that one!!!
Gavin Wheeler
> Obviously you're not Adahn, since you meet him in the Smoldering Corpse
> after coming back from the grand tour of the planes.
I'd understood that the Adahn you meet in the bar was an entity
brought into being by all the people you had told about this 'Adahn'.
Unfortunately it's been awhile since I played, so I can't remember how
well founded that belief is, but if it is right you could in fact be
Adahn. This would also explain why you always claimed to be this
'Adahn' if you decided to lie about your name (or about the fact that
you don't know your name), which was otherwise a bit contrived.
Daniel Sjöblom
>
> It seems that some things are half-done, or just flavour. What about the
> mime artist trapped in an invisible box? Is there a way to help him?
>
Nope, he doesn't seem to want to be helped, and Salabesh, the one who
cursed him won't do anything about it. The description of the mime
artist is quite funny, something like "these (artists) are universally
loathed on some Prime worlds".
But yes, it's true that some things seem half-done. But in a way it's
what makes the game intriguing, as there is much going on that's only
hinted at. It makes the game world seem bigger, and not only centered
around the nameless one. ( Like for example, the cornugon under Curst,
who tries to prevent Curst from falling into Carceri. Later on in
Carceri, you can see him fighting the Tannari that you summoned in Curst
)
I checked out the file you mentioned. There's lots of strange stuff
there. Like a mean weapon called "the Eviscerator". Also bits of
dialogue that was most likely removed. The most interesting thing I
found was that originally spellkeys were going to be part of the game.
Mike Noren
>But yes, it's true that some things seem half-done. But in a way it's
>what makes the game intriguing, as there is much going on that's only
>hinted at. It makes the game world seem bigger, and not only centered
>around the nameless one. ( Like for example, the cornugon under Curst,
>who tries to prevent Curst from falling into Carceri. Later on in
>Carceri, you can see him fighting the Tannari that you summoned in Curst)
Yep. Agreed. First rule of writing: leave some, but not too many,
loose ends and be vague on details, and the reader will fill in the
blanks. Or at least think there's more than meets the eye.
Aah, the stories in PS:T, the ones you get in books or by talking to
people like Yves or that cursed guy... All were of very high quality,
with evil little ironic twists. Something sorely missing in the books
in Morrowind.
>I checked out the file you mentioned. There's lots of strange stuff
>there. Like a mean weapon called "the Eviscerator". Also bits of
Did you read the description? Something like "A weapon obviously
created for Quality Control to kill everything as quickly as
possible"...
>dialogue that was most likely removed. The most interesting thing I
>found was that originally spellkeys were going to be part of the game.
Hm... What's a spellkey?
tomi heteaho
"Gavin Wheeler" <gavinw...@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1734f658.0208...@posting.google.com...
Funny thing is, you could even loot Adahn of stuff you *create* on his
person during the conversation just by believing he has them. (Belief is the
most powerful thing in the planes...)
Tomi
Mike Noren
>> > Obviously you're not Adahn, since you meet him in the Smoldering Corpse
>> > after coming back from the grand tour of the planes.
>> [...]
>>
>> I'd understood that the Adahn you meet in the bar was an entity
>> brought into being by all the people you had told about this 'Adahn'.
>
>Funny thing is, you could even loot Adahn of stuff you *create* on his
>person during the conversation just by believing he has them. (Belief is the
>most powerful thing in the planes...)
Ah, so that's why I've never met Adahn - I never said that was TNO's
name, so I never created him...
Definitely moving towards a reinstall here...
>Tomi
Werner Arend
Funny how many people are re-playing PS:T right now. Me too, BTW. Shows
that this game has replay value..
Werner
Daniel Sjöblom
>
> Aah, the stories in PS:T, the ones you get in books or by talking to
> people like Yves or that cursed guy... All were of very high quality,
> with evil little ironic twists. Something sorely missing in the books
> in Morrowind.
Yes, the stories were excellent, filled with atmosphere.
> >I checked out the file you mentioned. There's lots of strange stuff
> >there. Like a mean weapon called "the Eviscerator". Also bits of
>
> Did you read the description? Something like "A weapon obviously
> created for Quality Control to kill everything as quickly as
> possible"...
Ha, yes I read it. I actually downloaded a small mod that lets you start
with the "Tome of Cheats". I'll see if I can get the Eviscerator and
other items this way.
> >dialogue that was most likely removed. The most interesting thing I
> >found was that originally spellkeys were going to be part of the game.
>
> Hm... What's a spellkey?
In PnP you need a spellkey to be able to cast certain spells on the
Outer Planes. These spellkeys can be various things, but for example
getting the Baator spellkey could have been an interesting quest.
Perhaps they just didn't have enough time to implement them, or perhaps
they were just deemed unnecessary ( there aren't many Outer Planes you
can visit in Torment ).
This is from the game files:
This symbol of Baator is inscribed upon a piece of human flesh. It
smells burnt, and it is frayed around the edges. As long as you carry it
on your person, it will prevent your spells from going awry while on the
plane of Baator.
Allister
> >found was that originally spellkeys were going to be part of the game.
>
> Hm... What's a spellkey?
If I remember correctly from the original planescape paper campaign,
they had to do with an apsect of using magic on the planes.
Magic, on the planes, was affected by the plane itself. A spell that
acted normally on the prime, would be more effective/less effective
or even have incidental effects which could be good or bad. This was
determined by what school the spell belongs in.
There were some hard and fast rules.
1. Spells that dealt with Fire (Fireball) simply would not work on the
plane of Water and spells that dealth with Water (Cone of Cold) simply
wouldn't work on the plane of Fire.
2. Necromany would not work on Mt. Celestia
3. Spells dealing with the astral would not work on the Inner planes
or Ethereal and spells dealing with the ethereal would not work on the
Outer planes (I think Nordom's lens actually broke this rule).
Spell keys were designed by wizards to insure that their spells would
work as normal per how they worked on the Prime. Thus, a wizard who
had a Spellkey for Divination spells for Baator could rest assure
their divination spells worked properly.
Priests had a similar but different problem. Priestly spells would not
have weird effects a la wizard spells since they were simply
manifestations of that deity's will. However, to prevent crusades
across the planes, the Powers decreed a systems whereby for every
plane removed other than the first of the deity's home plane, the
effectiveness oof a spell would be reduced by 1 level.
Neosaurus
>acted normally on the prime, would be more effective/less effective
>or even have incidental effects which could be good or bad. This was
>determined by what school the spell belongs in.
Fortunately, most of these rules were streamlined in the Third Edition rules,
and were completely ignored in PS:T. Along with the silly "magic items lose
plusses on other planes" rule.
--Sean Curtin
Mike Noren
>> >dialogue that was most likely removed. The most interesting thing I
>> >found was that originally spellkeys were going to be part of the game.
>>
>> Hm... What's a spellkey?
>
>In PnP you need a spellkey to be able to cast certain spells on the
>Outer Planes.
Ahaaaa... I assume, then, the lack of spellkey was the reason spells
worked backwards in Curst?
Did spells work OK in Baator? Can't remember...
BrandonW
I played a mage and had no problems casting spells in any of the
planes, including Baator and Curst.
Mike Noren
>> Ahaaaa... I assume, then, the lack of spellkey was the reason spells
>> worked backwards in Curst?
>
>I played a mage and had no problems casting spells in any of the
>planes, including Baator and Curst.
Load up a save and try casting e.g. 'greater strength' or 'bless' on
your party, and see what happens to the stats... Only some spells go
wrong.
Knight37
It has to do with the nature of the plane you are on in relation to certain
types of magic. A spell key can make the spell work normally.
--
Knight37
And when our worlds they fall apart
When the walls come tumbling in
Though we may deserve it
It will be worth it
-- Depeche Mode, "Halo"
BrandonW
Oh, maybe that explains it. At this point in the game, the only
non-offensive spell I ever cast was Evo's Duplication or whatever it
was called. And sometimes Balance In All Things (the one that dishes
out damage everytime Dak'kon gets hit).
I just loved the gfx for the spells in the game. They were great.
Too bad by the time I got the most impressive spells I only had time
to cast them once or twice.
Chris Avellone
> Is the quest of the Pendant of Yemeth out there - or was it removed because
> it caused to story to become either too incoherent or too revealing. The
> script writers apparently wanted to keep the Nameless One nameless.
>
> Well, I don't.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> // Hermann
We intended that the Nameless One's real, true, first name would never
be revealed in the game, since anyone playing the game could imagine a
much better name than any dumb name we could come up with. While it is
possible that the NO was once named Yemeth during one of his
incarnations, Yemeth is not his real, true, first name.
Hope this helps,
Chris Avellone
Boogie with Stu
"Chris Avellone" <cave...@blackisle.com> wrote in message
news:e3757fae.02082...@posting.google.com...
Chris,
If this is really you I just want to say thank you for the best crpg I have
ever played. It made me realize what I truly love about the genre - a great
story. Truly a masterpiece you folks created and I look forward to the next
release from you guys - FO3 if there is a God.
--
Boogie with Stu, PhD.
Hermann Hesse
> be revealed in the game, since anyone playing the game could imagine a
> much better name than any dumb name we could come up with. While it is
> possible that the NO was once named Yemeth during one of his
> incarnations, Yemeth is not his real, true, first name.
And it was probably a wise decision, albeit frustrating.
Say, since I haven't seen you post here for months (if not years?) would you
mind terribly if I took the opportunity to ask you to share your thoughts
about the creation of game and how it was received?
It becomes quite apparent from the posts here that although not as
commercially successful as Black Isle's other titles, Torment is one of the
most loved and appreciated games in all categories. The script alone is
regarded as the finest ever to appear in a computer game.
Yet the game didn't seem to appeal to the majority of the gaming community
because the delicate script. What were the goals when writing the game
compared to who it was received?
// Hermann
Knight37
> We intended that the Nameless One's real, true, first name would never
> be revealed in the game, since anyone playing the game could imagine a
> much better name than any dumb name we could come up with. While it is
> possible that the NO was once named Yemeth during one of his
> incarnations, Yemeth is not his real, true, first name.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris Avellone
Hey Chis, long time no read. :) Welcome back.
--
Knight37
"I see a red door and I want it painted black,
no colours anymore I want them to turn black."
-- The Rolling Stones, "Paint It Black"
Chris Avellone
> Say, since I haven't seen you post here for months (if not years?) would you
> mind terribly if I took the opportunity to ask you to share your thoughts
> about the creation of game and how it was received?
>
> It becomes quite apparent from the posts here that although not as
> commercially successful as Black Isle's other titles, Torment is one of the
> most loved and appreciated games in all categories. The script alone is
> regarded as the finest ever to appear in a computer game.
>
> Yet the game didn't seem to appeal to the majority of the gaming community
> because the delicate script. What were the goals when writing the game
> compared to who it was received?<
I think there was a lot of factors why it didn't sell as much as
Baldur's Gate, and most weren't really surprising. It was an atypical
setting, it didn't have a lot of comfortable RPG elements about it, it
was very text heavy, the main character put people off, it started out
pretty slow, and I don't think the box helped either.
That said, I regret nothing. :)
Our directives when we were told do the game were to "do a Planescape
game using the IE engine," and that was pretty much what we did.
Team-wise, we totally lucked out and got a nice combination of people
all across the board who all worked well together, and all the
designers we had kicked ass.
The goals when making the game were:
- No traditional fantasy elements if at all possible, including
swords.
- We wanted the game to be as much of the character generator as
possible, and tried to have the player learn to be a class rather than
choose a class right from the start. Ideally, it would have been nicer
to expand on some of the class-training stuff in the game, especially
the magic, but it didn't make it in.
- What your character believed in meant as much to the game as your
actions, in accordance with the whole belief = reality in Planescape.
- Everything in the game revolved around your character. You weren't
out to save some world or some false sister/father figure you knew
next to nothing about - you were out to save yourself. You were the
goal of the entire game, your character was the puzzle, your character
was the focus. No saving the princess, no saving the world, no
retrieving the artifact, no destroying the artifact.
- We wanted your actions to affect your alignment, not the other way
around.
- We wanted a really deep story.
- We wanted NPC allies that had problems outside of their inventory
and class level restrictions.
...and me, personally, I wanted a puritan succubus. And a pregnant
street. And the ability to shape planes with my mind. And talking
weapons. And a guy who is a living conduit to the elemental plane of
fire. And a living forge that wants to kill the universe. And a
cube-style dungeon you can carry in your pocket that basically mimics
the trend of some hack and slash RPGs. And "rats" that defy the basic
rules of "rats" in most RPGs and turns them into the most dangerous
monsters you can fight. And undead that are friendly and more
sympathetic than most people you talk to.
Loved the team we had, and I loved working on it. :)
Chris Avellone
Victor
the crap we are getting. It's amazing how we get sequels to mediocre game,
but games like Planescape Torment (and in my opinion "The Longest Journey")
never do. When a game makes you chare bout the characters that it portrays,
you can help but want more.
Victor
Knight37
[ snip feature list of PST ]
> Loved the team we had, and I loved working on it. :)
>
> Chris Avellone
Yeah, it rocked. Great game, one of the best ever if not the best. I wish
more games like it could be made.
--
Knight37
You'll see your problems multiplied
If you continually decide
To faithfully pursue
The policy of truth
'Never again' is what you swore the time before
-- Depeche Mode, "Policy of Truth"
Toony7600
> be revealed in the game, since anyone playing the game could imagine a
> much better name than any dumb name we could come up with. While it is
> possible that the NO was once named Yemeth during one of his
> incarnations, Yemeth is not his real, true, first name.
What a smart design decision. Not revealing the information is much
better than dissapointing the player. Omission or letting the gamer
think is better than letting the game tell explain everything.
Courageous
>What a smart design decision. Not revealing the information is much
>better than dissapointing the player. Omission or letting the gamer
>think is better than letting the game tell explain everything.
Speaks to a higher principle, IMO. For example, am I the only one
who would have rather had the Force continue to be mystical
and spiritual, rather than become "force particles" or whatever
they called them? I think not.
Some mysteries are best left as mysteries.
The part of Star Wars that had mystical appeal is forever lost.
C//
imp
Yes. Now it resonates with Scientology. *shudder*
imp
>:)
Mike Noren
>> Yet the game didn't seem to appeal to the majority of the gaming community
>> because the delicate script. What were the goals when writing the game
>> compared to who it was received?<
>
>I think there was a lot of factors why it didn't sell as much as
>Baldur's Gate, and most weren't really surprising. It was an atypical
>setting, it didn't have a lot of comfortable RPG elements about it, it
>was very text heavy, the main character put people off, it started out
>pretty slow, and I don't think the box helped either.
>
>That said, I regret nothing. :)
As well you shouldn't.
I'm a self-professed PS:T fanboy - I consider it the best game I've
ever played. Although the box could have used some improvement.
I have a few questions, perhaps you could shed some light...
1) It is often said that PS:T was not a great financial success, but
just how bad did it do? Did it *lose* money? Would you happen to know
approximately how many copies it's sold?
2) Considering that the gaming market is slowly becoming more
sophisticated (as we're all growing older), and considering the
reputation PS:T has gained over time, do you think there might
eventually be a sequel to PS:T, or at least something designed with
similar goals?
>Chris Avellone
Mike Noren
>Speaks to a higher principle, IMO. For example, am I the only one
>who would have rather had the Force continue to be mystical
>and spiritual, rather than become "force particles" or whatever
>they called them? I think not.
Yeah, if SW-EpI had been a game instead of a movie that'd have been
called a gamebreaker. Although in the general mess of gamebreaking
crap that was SW-EpI I'm not sure it was the worst.
>Some mysteries are best left as mysteries.
>
>The part of Star Wars that had mystical appeal is forever lost.
What, don't you find intracellular bacterial parasites capable of
'tieing the universe together', of 'connecting everything, you, me,
the rock over there', of transcending people physically, of creating
humans from scratch, of faster than light travel, mystical?
Do you really think that the fact that Yoda, Obi-Wan etc are really
bacterial trainers rather than enlightened mystics makes the movies
less mystical?
Um. OK. Yeah, I can see that.
But what one really must face is that the Star Wars movies, with the
possible exception of epIV & parts of V, are made for children 8-14
years of age. They're kiddie movies in the same vein as Karate Kid.
They're not intended to be internally consistent, or to adhere to
logic or reason.
One might *wish* that Lucas re-aimed the remaining movie towards a
slightly older audience, but he's making so much ph4t 1007 from the
present ones that it's hard to see why he'd bother.
>C//
tomi heteaho
>
> 1) It is often said that PS:T was not a great financial success, but
> just how bad did it do? Did it *lose* money? Would you happen to know
> approximately how many copies it's sold?
And what about the fact that its still sold worldwide? Should still be
generating some income.
>
> 2) Considering that the gaming market is slowly becoming more
> sophisticated (as we're all growing older), and considering the
> reputation PS:T has gained over time, do you think there might
> eventually be a sequel to PS:T, or at least something designed with
> similar goals?
>
Somehow I feel a sequel would just be wrong. Planescape was just perfect.
You don't do sequels to perfect things, the sequel will always look worse
than the original.
But something else in the Planescape universe? Or perhaps a more "standard"
AD&D game, but with the same quality as in Torment? Well, I'd buy those ;)
Personally, I am still waiting to see what the next game Chris writes is
gonna be. I'll bet it'll still be head&shoulders above the rest of the
business.
Tomi
imp
> One might *wish* that Lucas re-aimed the remaining movie towards a
> slightly older audience, but he's making so much ph4t 1007 from the
> present ones that it's hard to see why he'd bother.
He did say the last one will be a bit darker. Have to, really, given
the subject!
imp
>:)
Werner Arend
>
>>2) Considering that the gaming market is slowly becoming more
>>sophisticated (as we're all growing older), and considering the
>>reputation PS:T has gained over time, do you think there might
>>eventually be a sequel to PS:T, or at least something designed with
>>similar goals?
>
> Somehow I feel a sequel would just be wrong. Planescape was just perfect.
> You don't do sequels to perfect things, the sequel will always look worse
> than the original.
>
> But something else in the Planescape universe? Or perhaps a more "standard"
> AD&D game, but with the same quality as in Torment? Well, I'd buy those ;)
Yes, a sequel with the same character would not be good. But what about
a sequel with an NPC from PS:T as the main character? Like
Fall-from-Grace's story, beginning perhaps a few hundred years after the
events in PS:T. There could be loose ties to the events in PS:T. The
mystery of her story and her promise that she'll seek the former
Nameless One however long it may take always triggered my imagination.
Werner
Werner Arend
>
>>2) Considering that the gaming market is slowly becoming more
>>sophisticated (as we're all growing older), and considering the
>>reputation PS:T has gained over time, do you think there might
>>eventually be a sequel to PS:T, or at least something designed with
>>similar goals?
>
> Somehow I feel a sequel would just be wrong. Planescape was just perfect.
> You don't do sequels to perfect things, the sequel will always look worse
> than the original.
>
> But something else in the Planescape universe? Or perhaps a more "standard"
> AD&D game, but with the same quality as in Torment? Well, I'd buy those ;)
S. Tanry
FFG has no story after Torment. You see, in my game she died in the
battle against the angel, and I had no way of resurrecting her. Oh well.
--
-S. Tanry
Victor
"...we'll be using 40 watt bulbs on the set as opposed to 100 watt bulbs"
At this point that's the only darker I can see Lucas being able to
accomplish. It seems that when he makes a SW movie these days his goal is to
fill that screen with plenty of crap that he can market as a movie tie in.
Victor
"imp" <imp...@partmaps.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:VA.0000037b.007e0356@impy...
Victor
view of the other NPC. What might even be interesting would be a game where
the point of view changes. Might be interesting to play the game as each NPC
separately until they came together at some point. Or something to that
effect.
Victor
Elfseeker
> Nameless One however long it may take
At which point was this? the very end?
Elfs...@c2i.net, having restarted, and slowly working my way to the
'garbage king'... :P
Chris Proctor
news:3D6CCAF...@unknown.host.de:
> Yes, a sequel with the same character would not be good. But what
> about a sequel with an NPC from PS:T as the main character? Like
> Fall-from-Grace's story, beginning perhaps a few hundred years after
> the events in PS:T. There could be loose ties to the events in PS:T.
> The mystery of her story and her promise that she'll seek the former
> Nameless One however long it may take always triggered my imagination.
How about a game in which you play the Practical incarnation instead?
I'd really like to get Xachariah etc in my party . . .
It needn't even end in such a way that the first game would follow on, i.e.
you could play through and win your mortality back earlier.
Chris
Grand Fromage
I've seen this guy mentioned many times before... I never encountered him in
the game. Is he there or just mentioned in some conversation I didn't see?
--
Or, you're lying to get attention. Which is odd, because usually to get
attention Germans try to take over the world and fail. - "madkevin"
Chris Proctor
news:20020828205458...@mb-fa.aol.com:
>>I'd really like to get Xachariah etc in my party . . .
>
> I've seen this guy mentioned many times before... I never encountered
> him in the game. Is he there or just mentioned in some conversation I
> didn't see?
You can ferret out his name by grilling Dak'kon (I think?) about the 4
members of your previous incarnations' party. You probably won't be able to
do it until later in the game.
In PS:T, Xachariah's a zombie in the mortuary (upper level, the same one
with the doors to outside), and you can use the talk-to-zombies ability you
got from Stale Mary to chat to him. Interesting . . .
Chris
Werner Arend
>>her promise that she'll seek the former
>>Nameless One however long it may take
>
> At which point was this? the very end?
>
Yes. If you choose not to unmake yourself nor kill yourself with the
Blade of the Immortal, and managed to resurrect Grace, this happens
when you say goodbye to your companions at the very end. I don't
remember the exact words, though.
Werner
Lucian Wischik
>[Xachariah]
>I've seen this guy mentioned many times before... I never encountered
>him in the game. Is he there or just mentioned in some conversation I
>didn't see?
It's a bit subtle! Get Dak'kon to translate at the tatoo parlour.
Outside confront him about his reticence to translate fully. This
reveals more of his past. The way I learnt about this was reading the
novelization of the game by Rhyss Hess -- he played through pretty much
completely and wrote down all the dialog. I have a copy of it on my
website, httpç//www.wischik.com/lu/senses/pst-book.html
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Brian H.
now....
"Chris Avellone" <CAve...@blackisle.com> wrote in message
news:cc8b03ae.02082...@posting.google.com...
>
> I think there was a lot of factors why it didn't sell as much as
> Baldur's Gate, and most weren't really surprising. It was an atypical
> setting, it didn't have a lot of comfortable RPG elements about it, it
> was very text heavy, the main character put people off, it started out
> pretty slow, and I don't think the box helped either.
>
In US it didn't sell much. But how about the other markets?
> That said, I regret nothing. :)
>
Should be.
> Our directives when we were told do the game were to "do a Planescape
> game using the IE engine," and that was pretty much what we did.
> Team-wise, we totally lucked out and got a nice combination of people
> all across the board who all worked well together, and all the
> designers we had kicked ass.
>
Any chance that these people can gather again to create another new game?
> The goals when making the game were:
>
> - No traditional fantasy elements if at all possible, including
> swords.
Hm... But there is a "Celestial Fire"....
> - We wanted the game to be as much of the character generator as
> possible, and tried to have the player learn to be a class rather than
> choose a class right from the start. Ideally, it would have been nicer
> to expand on some of the class-training stuff in the game, especially
> the magic, but it didn't make it in.
I still quite don't know how some of the spells inside the game work, like
the "missile of patience"...
> - What your character believed in meant as much to the game as your
> actions, in accordance with the whole belief = reality in Planescape.
> - Everything in the game revolved around your character. You weren't
> out to save some world or some false sister/father figure you knew
> next to nothing about - you were out to save yourself. You were the
> goal of the entire game, your character was the puzzle, your character
> was the focus. No saving the princess, no saving the world, no
> retrieving the artifact, no destroying the artifact.
I like this aspect. =)
> - We wanted your actions to affect your alignment, not the other way
> around.
Absolutely like this aspect. =)
> - We wanted a really deep story.
> - We wanted NPC allies that had problems outside of their inventory
> and class level restrictions.
>
I really, really like this part. Every NPC that joined you seems hiding
something from you and waiting for you to discover.
> ...and me, personally, I wanted a puritan succubus.
She is wonderful but her kiss was less dangerous than a mosquito....
> And a pregnant street.
This is good. How did you get that idea?
> And the ability to shape planes with my mind. And talking
> weapons.
Well... hm... the weapons didn't talk much...
> And a guy who is a living conduit to the elemental plane of
> fire.
But this guy is... well... quite pathetic. His look was fearsome though...
> And a living forge that wants to kill the universe.
I like this!
> And a cube-style dungeon you can carry in your pocket that basically
mimics
> the trend of some hack and slash RPGs.
I like the idea (But don't like the dungeon, really, which could be what you
intend to create).
> And "rats" that defy the basic
> rules of "rats" in most RPGs and turns them into the most dangerous
> monsters you can fight.
Simply the best "rats" in any CRPG.
> And undead that are friendly and more
> sympathetic than most people you talk to.
>
I like the part that Hargrimm the Bleak begged you not to tell anybody about
the fact that Mr. S. K. was... and the reason was simply he didn't want to
die! Very dramatic.
> Loved the team we had, and I loved working on it. :)
>
Loved all of you, but where's the next game? >=)
> Chris Avellone
Neosaurus
>
>It's a bit subtle! Get Dak'kon to translate at the tatoo parlour.
You need to have the severed arm from the catacombs with you at this point in
order to bring up the Xachariah dialogue.
--Sean Curtin
Toony7600
> Baldur's Gate, and most weren't really surprising. It was an atypical
> setting, it didn't have a lot of comfortable RPG elements about it, it
> was very text heavy, the main character put people off, it started out
> pretty slow, and I don't think the box helped either.
Chris, were these uncomfortable RPG elements in Planescape: Torment
Adventure game elements? A lot of Adventurers on the Adventure game
newsgroup like to say that Planescape: Torment is an RPG/Adventure
combination. I usually call it the most Adventure like RPG. I didn't
mind the long conversations, almost every review said that they were
too long. I thought they were so good and it was so much fun reading
the text that the length didn't bother me, but is an asset.
Planescape: Torment did started off slow, but it just took a while
sink my teeth into this game like a really good piece of chocolate.
> That said, I regret nothing. :)
You've created a masterpiece that will be remembered in best games of
lists.
> Our directives when we were told do the game were to "do a Planescape
> game using the IE engine," and that was pretty much what we did.
> Team-wise, we totally lucked out and got a nice combination of people
> all across the board who all worked well together, and all the
> designers we had kicked ass.
That's what creates a great game. A dedicated passionate group of
people to create a great game.
> The goals when making the game were:
>
> - No traditional fantasy elements if at all possible, including
> swords.
How is Planescape: Torment different from other traditional fantasy
RPG's?
> - We wanted the game to be as much of the character generator as
> possible, and tried to have the player learn to be a class rather than
> choose a class right from the start. Ideally, it would have been nicer
> to expand on some of the class-training stuff in the game, especially
> the magic, but it didn't make it in.
> - What your character believed in meant as much to the game as your
> actions, in accordance with the whole belief = reality in Planescape.
> - Everything in the game revolved around your character. You weren't
> out to save some world or some false sister/father figure you knew
> next to nothing about - you were out to save yourself. You were the
> goal of the entire game, your character was the puzzle, your character
> was the focus. No saving the princess, no saving the world, no
> retrieving the artifact, no destroying the artifact.
Wow, what an amazing RPG. Planescape: Torment is the only game I can
think of where the player is the center of attention and the player
must found out who he/she/nameless one is in the game.
> - We wanted your actions to affect your alignment, not the other way
> around.
> - We wanted a really deep story.
> - We wanted NPC allies that had problems outside of their inventory
> and class level restrictions.
A deep and powerful story. I enjoy every bit of it.
> ...and me, personally, I wanted a puritan succubus. And a pregnant
> street. And the ability to shape planes with my mind. And talking
> weapons. And a guy who is a living conduit to the elemental plane of
> fire. And a living forge that wants to kill the universe. And a
> cube-style dungeon you can carry in your pocket that basically mimics
> the trend of some hack and slash RPGs. And "rats" that defy the basic
> rules of "rats" in most RPGs and turns them into the most dangerous
> monsters you can fight. And undead that are friendly and more
> sympathetic than most people you talk to.
NPC's character talking to each other was another aspect that added to
my enjoyment of Planescape: Torment. Fallout 2 didn't have the NPC
character talking to each other like the way Planescape: Torment did
it.
> Loved the team we had, and I loved working on it. :)
You and your team did a spectacular job on Planescape: Torment. Chris,
do you consider all the games that you have designed your Babies?
Knight37
>> - No traditional fantasy elements if at all possible, including
>> swords.
>
> How is Planescape: Torment different from other traditional fantasy
> RPG's?
Wow. Let me count the ways... (some of them)
1. No farkin' elf this, elf that.
2. Lots of cool new "plane" races and folks.
3. The idea of "belief is power".
4. It's not about "kill the great evil foozle to save the world". This has
been the traditional fantasy plot since Tolkien, copied by Eddings, Brooks,
et. al.
5. There are swords, but there's a lot of other unusual stuff too.
6. There's a lot of atypical fantasy enemies.
7. The factions and all of that stuff (again back to the belief is power
idea) adds a political aspect to the game that is missing from many (not
all) traditional fantasy RPGs.
8. Sigil is a highly unusual fantasy city, very unique and cool.
9. The dialect is not a "thee, thou, thy" typical fantasy thing, it's got
it's own style (based loosely on London 17th Century Thieves' Cant).
10. Uh... talking skulls? No wait, that's not too unusual. Heh. ;p
11. The main character is highly atypical fantasy.
I'm sure others can thing of ... others.
--
Knight37
U.N. Repressentative: So, Mr. Evil -
Dr. Evil: It's Dr. Evil, I didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School to
be called "mister," thank you very much.
-- "Austin Powers"
Knight37
whispered:
> 9. The dialect is not a "thee, thou, thy" typical fantasy thing, it's
> got it's own style (based loosely on London 17th Century Thieves'
> Cant).
Correction: Right idea, wrong century. It's from the mid to late 1700's,
which is the 18th century. I always get screwed up on that.. ;)
--
Knight37
Trinity: It's the question that drives us, Neo.
Neo: What is the Matrix?
Trinity: The answer is out there, Neo. It's looking for you.
-- "The Matrix"
Mike Noren
>> Fall-from-Grace's story, beginning perhaps a few hundred years after the
>> events in PS:T. There could be loose ties to the events in PS:T. The
...
>FFG has no story after Torment. You see, in my game she died in the
>battle against the angel, and I had no way of resurrecting her. Oh well.
She does, however, always have a story before PS:T.
Mike Noren
>>I'd really like to get Xachariah etc in my party . . .
>
>I've seen this guy mentioned many times before... I never encountered him in
>the game. Is he there or just mentioned in some conversation I didn't see?
He's there, sortof. He's (now) one of the zombies in the Mortuary. If
you've learnt how to speak with dead, it's worth having a chat with
him.
Boogie with Stu
"Knight37" <knig...@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns927A581A4...@130.133.1.4...
| Prophet Knight37 <knig...@email.com> consulted the bones and
| whispered:
|
| > 9. The dialect is not a "thee, thou, thy" typical fantasy thing, it's
| > got it's own style (based loosely on London 17th Century Thieves'
| > Cant).
|
| Correction: Right idea, wrong century. It's from the mid to late 1700's,
| which is the 18th century. I always get screwed up on that.. ;)
|
| --
|
| Knight37
|
<sigh>...the 18th century. We had such lovely sunsets in those days. I
miss them.
--
Boogie with Stu, PhD.
Knight37
I was a vampire back then too, so I wouldn't know. ;p
--
Knight37
If for honesty
You want apologies
I don't sympathize
If for kindness
You substitute blindness
Please open your eyes
-- Depeche Mode, "Condemnation"
S. Tanry
I don't believe so. Therefore it cannot be. Therefore it isn't. However
I also believe Torment was the highest selling RPG of all time, and look
where that belief has gone?
--
-S. Tanry
Brian H.
"Grand Fromage" <ppk...@aol.communists> wrote in message
news:20020828205458...@mb-fa.aol.com...
> >I'd really like to get Xachariah etc in my party . . .
>
> I've seen this guy mentioned many times before... I never encountered him
in
> the game. Is he there or just mentioned in some conversation I didn't
see?
>
He became a zombie working in the mortuary. You'll need the "Speak with
Death" ability to be able to talk to him.
Knight37
> Knight37 <knig...@email.com> writes:
>
>> ><sigh>...the 18th century. We had such lovely sunsets in those
>> >days. I
>> > miss them.
>>
>> I was a vampire back then too, so I wouldn't know. ;p
>
> How did you manage to see the sunsets without being destroyed?
>
I didn't. That's why I wouldn't know. :)
--
Knight37
It's just time to pay the price
For not listening to advice
And deciding in your youth
On the policy of truth
-- Depeche Mode, "Policy of Truth"
Boogie with Stu
| Darin Johnson <da...@usa.net> once tried to test me with:
|
| > Knight37 <knig...@email.com> writes:
| >
| >> ><sigh>...the 18th century. We had such lovely sunsets in those
| >> >days. I
| >> > miss them.
| >>
| >> I was a vampire back then too, so I wouldn't know. ;p
| >
| > How did you manage to see the sunsets without being destroyed?
| >
|
| I didn't. That's why I wouldn't know. :)
|
| --
|
| Knight37
|
back then. Hell, my mind was beginning to go in 1638, but somehow I feel
sharp as a tack these days.