Lum the Invader Girl
Paul Tomlin
--
Paul Tomlin
"It's not pink, it's cyber-rose"
Paul Tomlin
Paul Tomlin wrote:
>
> The term 'Oh dear' spring immediately to mind....
Okay, more...
Erm, it wasn't great. Cherry's mannerisms have been changed somewhat,
the script is a loose translation at best (including Pokémon gags and
animation jokes). Plenty of bad language as well.
Lucas wasn't too bad, Friel was trerrible and much of the rest of the
cast were non-descript.
The episodes shwon were the first (both the stories) and the third
(which introduces Rei). Rei was actually being referred to as *Raymond*.
Raymond??????????
I have nothing more to say ^_^
Jim McLennan
translation job of all time, but I think the additional laughs more than
made up for the ones that got lost. I think it's impossible to do a
"proper" translation of UY without handing out liner notes to the entire
British population... On that basis, it was a very good effort, though
I'm sure we'll get plenty of sad fanboy carping over it. Hell, it made
ME laugh, and that's all you want.
In article <MPG.13f6a972a...@news.claranews.com>
use...@alaula.net "R. Hetherington" writes:
> It didn't make it better, because one of the changes was to make all the
> humour more blatant and exaggerated, and that really detracts from the
> show. I tend to prefer at least some subtlety in my humour.
So why do you like UY, possibly the least subtle series in the known
universe? :-) [At least in the TV series]
> My favourite part of the weekend so far has got to have been the
> Japanese Music documentary. Pity it was so short, I hope they consider
> making a series out of it. 8 half hour episodes, each one focusing on a
> different musical style would be really great.
I agree -- there was the feeling here of a vast pool getting its surface
skimmed, with a million and one potential topics of interest, all getting
reduced to 30 seconds or so.
--
Jim McLennan
-- It's here! 100+, all-new pages of industrial strength Trash Culture! --
-- For details, visit: http://www.trshcity.demon.co.uk --
Ash
>
> It worked for me. It may not have perhaps been the most accurate
> translation job of all time, but I think the additional laughs more than
> made up for the ones that got lost. I think it's impossible to do a
> "proper" translation of UY without handing out liner notes to the entire
> British population... On that basis, it was a very good effort, though
> I'm sure we'll get plenty of sad fanboy carping over it. Hell, it made
> ME laugh, and that's all you want.
I'm sorry I have to agree. I agree with the original post that Anna
Friel was terrible as Lum, but I really liked Matt Lucas as Ataru, even
if the lines were mostly improvised.
It definately wasn't a 'good dub' in the sense of matching the original,
but it was definately amusing, as I thought it might be. I just can't
see Shinobu calling Ataru a lecherous little shit though.
To conclude I think it had the same tacky-yet-amusing quality of a fan
dub, I think Anna Friel was the only one trying to take the role
seriously and consequently it was the only one that really felt out of
place. They kept the original music and sound effects, which is another
bonus that most dubs seem to deprive us of these days.
Of course the english accents were a great relief as well, it could have
been much worse ^_^
Ash
--
It's ASH, Not SATOSHI, dammit!
Kevin Pack
news:MPG.13f6a972a...@news.claranews.com...
> In article <398C94C9...@btinternet.com>,
pault...@btinternet.com
> says...
> > The term 'Oh dear' spring immediately to mind....
>
dialogue, and
> the accents made the UK dub funnier than the original Japanese
one IMO.
>
> It didn't make it better, because one of the changes was to
make all the
> humour more blatant and exaggerated, and that really detracts
from the
> show. I tend to prefer at least some subtlety in my humour.
>
it always
> can. Personally I hope they continue with the rest of the
series.
I have to agree with every thing you have said. Lum was pretty
much what I was expecting the BBC to do with it.
> My favourite part of the weekend so far has got to have been
the
> Japanese Music documentary. Pity it was so short, I hope they
consider
> making a series out of it. 8 half hour episodes, each one
focusing on a
> different musical style would be really great.
>
> BTW I know it's a long shot, but I don't suppose anyone knows
the name
> of the song that played immediately after the first UY episode
finished?
If you find out, please let me know, as I thought it was really
good.
--
Kevin Pack
www.cardcaptors.co.uk
ke...@kevinpack.co.uk
Paul Tomlin
Ash wrote:
> It definately wasn't a 'good dub' in the sense of matching the original,
> but it was definately amusing, as I thought it might be. I just can't
> see Shinobu calling Ataru a lecherous little shit though.
I'd agree with that. As a version of _Urusei Yatsura_ it was awful, but
as entertainment it was pretty good, I was just a little...shocked
having watched the AP tape earlier. That said, I'm not sure I'd have
found it so amusing if I hadn't seen the original tho.
> To conclude I think it had the same tacky-yet-amusing quality of a fan
> dub, I think Anna Friel was the only one trying to take the role
> seriously and consequently it was the only one that really felt out of
> place. They kept the original music and sound effects, which is another
> bonus that most dubs seem to deprive us of these days.
Again, I'd agree with that. Much of the script seems to have been
written down the pub after watching it in Japanese once. The way they
replaced some of the more Japanese humour with decidedly more British
was rather hit and miss to say the least, but some of the jokes at the
animations expense seemed a little out of place.
I can't deny a lot of it made me laugh, but I just found watching the
whole thing a rather surreal experience. When you say 'Fan Dub' I'd say
your spot on, even the sound mix seems of that quality.
> Of course the english accents were a great relief as well, it could have
> been much worse ^_^
Ten grated on me alot.
Paul Tomlin
"R. Hetherington" wrote:
> I liked it. A combination of the actors, the changes in dialogue, and
> the accents made the UK dub funnier than the original Japanese one IMO.
>
> It didn't make it better, because one of the changes was to make all the
> humour more blatant and exaggerated, and that really detracts from the
> show. I tend to prefer at least some subtlety in my humour.
>
> But IMO they did an ok job with it. Could be better, but then it always
> can. Personally I hope they continue with the rest of the series.
To be honest, I wish I'd waited before commenting. I watched it again
this morning and on the whole it wasn't bad at all, bar Anna Friel and
the fact that Ten totally grated. I wouldn't mind seeing them do the
whole series, but I suspect that it's very unlikely given they skipped
episode 2 just for the Japan weekend.
> My favourite part of the weekend so far has got to have been the
> Japanese Music documentary. Pity it was so short, I hope they consider
> making a series out of it. 8 half hour episodes, each one focusing on a
> different musical style would be really great.
Agreed, most of the other programming was dull. Even Monkey isn't as
entertaining after having seen it so many times in the past.
> BTW I know it's a long shot, but I don't suppose anyone knows the name
> of the song that played immediately after the first UY episode finished?
Dunno, but they played a remix of Tank! from Cowboy Bebop before Violent
Cop ^_^
Wednesday
Jim McLennan <jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>It worked for me. It may not have perhaps been the most accurate
>translation job of all time, but I think the additional laughs more than
>made up for the ones that got lost. I think it's impossible to do a
>"proper" translation of UY without handing out liner notes to the entire
>British population...
"This is BBC Choice. Next up is Lum the Invader Girl. Translation notes
are on Teletext 887."
--
i don't care what kind of clow card it is; i'm not wearing that :::::: [weds]
Phil Baxter
> The term 'Oh dear' spring immediately to mind....
Absolutely, I thought it was the most offensive dub I have EVER heard. I
barely managed to watch the first 5 minutes before turning off in disgust.
It was amateur night, appallingly acted, and completely destroyed the feel
of the original. WHY wasn't it subtitled? Obviously the BBC have so little
respect for anime that they enjoy having a good laugh at it's expense.
Luckily I have seen lots of Urusei Yatsura the way it was meant to be,
courtesy of AnimEigo's subtitled US tapes, and as soon as I can get their
newly released subtitled DVDs I will do. UY is an anime classic, a
masterpiece from one of Japan's greatest talents and it deserves to be seen
properly.
And what was with the zoomed up 16:9 blur-o-vision??
They had just better not do the same with Jin-Roh this evening...
Phil
Harry Payne
<as...@nospam.ecs.soton.ac.uk> writes
>Jim McLennan wrote:
>>
>> It worked for me. It may not have perhaps been the most accurate
>> translation job of all time, but I think the additional laughs more than
>> made up for the ones that got lost. I think it's impossible to do a
>> "proper" translation of UY without handing out liner notes to the entire
>> I'm sure we'll get plenty of sad fanboy carping over it. Hell, it made
>> ME laugh, and that's all you want.
>
>I'm sorry I have to agree. I agree with the original post that Anna
>Friel was terrible as Lum, but I really liked Matt Lucas as Ataru, even
>if the lines were mostly improvised.
Me too. I feel a polite swathe of letters of thanks to the Beeb is in
order, perhaps laced with some subtle hints that more episodes would be
appreciated.
</AOL>
BTW, I posted an "instant review" just after episode 1 last night which
took until 8pm tonight to turn up in my download. Anyone else like to
tell me when they first saw it?
--
Harry
Ash
>
> BTW, I posted an "instant review" just after episode 1 last night which
> took until 8pm tonight to turn up in my download. Anyone else like to
> tell me when they first saw it?
> --
> Harry
I saw it about half-way through the repeat of the second episode of "Lum
The Invader Girl" last night (sunday) - I often watch TV and use the
internet at the same time for some reason.
Ash
Stephen Moore
<ha...@menageri.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>I'm sorry I have to agree. I agree with the original post that Anna
>>Friel was terrible as Lum, but I really liked Matt Lucas as Ataru, even
>>if the lines were mostly improvised.
I must admit I quite liked Anna Friel as Lum, she made her seem a
little out of place compared with the rest...
Lauren Laverne stole the show for me though :)
><AOL>
>Me too. I feel a polite swathe of letters of thanks to the Beeb is in
>order, perhaps laced with some subtle hints that more episodes would be
>appreciated.
></AOL>
The Beeb have a feedback on shows section of their web page
somewhere...
Some positive feedback, along with "when can I see the rest of this
excellent series" has been sent ;)
Stephen
Ivan Pintori
<phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Absolutely, I thought it was the most offensive dub I have EVER heard. I
>barely managed to watch the first 5 minutes before turning off in disgust.
I know that this will not help you, but If you want I can see to send
you a copy of the first 3 episodes as dubbed in Italy some 15 years
ago, a whole different bundle. You won't get the language, but the
voices are soooooooooooo right, and in sync too!
Other important factor, in the Italian dub there is no swearing AT
ALL. Lum, to be fun, does not need to be tasteless!
ivan
---
Lum's real Fiancee ;^) Prodly born on the same day as Ataru Moroboshi!
Cadetto della U.N. Spacy - Ivan "Ataru Moroboshi" Pintori
Squadriglia SVF-124 Moon Shots - al comando di un VF-17D Nightmare
sukkio gli MP3 Anime! ;^))
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Matthew Hambley
"Phil Baxter" <phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > The term 'Oh dear' spring immediately to mind....
>
> Absolutely, I thought it was the most offensive dub I have EVER heard. I
> barely managed to watch the first 5 minutes before turning off in disgust.
> It was amateur night, appallingly acted, and completely destroyed the feel
> of the original. WHY wasn't it subtitled? Obviously the BBC have so little
> respect for anime that they enjoy having a good laugh at it's expense.
Danger Will Robinson, Danger. If you're not cairfull people are going to
mistake you for a pompas ass. Translation is always a difficult thing since
two languageas and two cultures use language in different ways and have
different concepts expressed by those languages. Humour doubly so.
I can not claim to have seen the source material in its original form however
from watching the thing the dub did not seem inapropriate for the action on
the screen.
As to why it wasn't subtitled, I would imagine that was because the Beeb
where producing a programme for people interested in Japan, not for anime
fans. It is self evident that a dubbed version is more accessable than a
subtitled version and accessability is what was being aimed for in this case.
It amuses me that the last time a dub like this was produced (The Magic
Roundabout) it was hailed as a cult classic.
--
(\/)atthew Hambley ----------------\ If something's worth doing it's worth
\ doing badly until you can learn to
snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk \ do it well.
http://www.therealm.freeserve.co.uk/ \-----------------------------------
Jim McLennan
phil....@btinternet.com "Phil Baxter" writes:
> Absolutely, I thought it was the most offensive dub I have EVER heard. I
> barely managed to watch the first 5 minutes before turning off in disgust.
> It was amateur night, appallingly acted, and completely destroyed the feel
> of the original. WHY wasn't it subtitled? Obviously the BBC have so little
> respect for anime that they enjoy having a good laugh at it's expense.
>
> Luckily I have seen lots of Urusei Yatsura the way it was meant to be,
> courtesy of AnimEigo's subtitled US tapes, and as soon as I can get their
> newly released subtitled DVDs I will do. UY is an anime classic, a
> masterpiece from one of Japan's greatest talents and it deserves to be seen
> properly.
I refer to my earlier comments about "sad fanboy carping". :-)
How did it "completely destroy the feel of the original"? How did the BBC
have "a good laugh at its [anime's] expense"? It's a COMEDY, f'heavens
sake!
Its proper place is on network TV - that is what being "seen properly"
should mean, rather than whining over the voice actors. Dubbing it was
essential, and they preserved the irreverent and basically stupid nature
of the series very well. I suspect this will have done more for UY's
recognition and popularity in this country than anything else, ever.
And if you think the first couple of UY TV episodes are "an anime classic",
you need to see MUCH more anime...
Wednesday
>I know that this will not help you, but If you want I can see to send
>you a copy of the first 3 episodes as dubbed in Italy some 15 years
>ago, a whole different bundle. You won't get the language, but the
>voices are soooooooooooo right, and in sync too!
How widespread is this offer? I'd love to see this too...
Rurik Hazell
>mistake you for a pompas ass. Translation is always a difficult thing
since
>two languageas and two cultures use language in different ways and have
>different concepts expressed by those languages. Humour doubly so.
>
Much as I hate to admit it, you're right - puns, especially, don't work well
in translation, so an open mind's often needed when it comes to translation.
A few members of my club get so het up with exact translations, it's
amazing. My only complaint about translations are when the names are
completely changed, such as the sailor senshi getting names other than their
original Japanese ones (each of which had very appropriate meanings). And
note I said senshi, as in soldier, not the horrible "scout"!^_^
It still would be nice to have an Anime Channel, though, to avoid any
unnecessary "editing" of anime such as Cartoon Network has done in the US...
Rurik
David Damerell
>I can not claim to have seen the source material in its original form however
>from watching the thing the dub did not seem inapropriate for the action on
>the screen.
Then perhaps you should listen to the people who have?
>As to why it wasn't subtitled, I would imagine that was because the Beeb
>where producing a programme for people interested in Japan, not for anime
>fans. It is self evident that a dubbed version is more accessable than a
>subtitled version
Awooga! Awooga! Proof by blatant assertion detected!
[The BBC has traditionally subtitled anime, and did very well with
Akira...]
>It amuses me that the last time a dub like this was produced (The Magic
>Roundabout) it was hailed as a cult classic.
No-one claimed the Magic Roundabout was a translation.
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
|___| Time for some bonking. I likes a bit of bonking! |___|
| | | (Trapdoor - British children's TV) | | |
Harry Payne
Hambley <snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>It amuses me that the last time a dub like this was produced (The Magic
>Roundabout) it was hailed as a cult classic.
I don't recall anyone complaining about "Samurai Pizza Cats" overmuch,
either.
--
Harry
Happosai
I know I used to cringe a lot when watching it with non-anime
aware friends - I made a lot of allowances for the
westernisations of the dialogue, as I appreciate the difficulty
in translating various aspects of foreign languages, but my
friends just thought is was full of really awful puns and
couldn't see the attraction!
[Happosai]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Fox
<ha...@menageri.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <9b4d32ea49%snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk>, Matthew
>Hambley <snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>It amuses me that the last time a dub like this was produced (The Magic
>>Roundabout) it was hailed as a cult classic.
>
>I don't recall anyone complaining about "Samurai Pizza Cats" overmuch,
>either.
I don't recall much swearing in Samurai Pizza Cats.
Admittedly they chucked the original script in the bin, but thay
replaced it with something that was entertaining, funny, reasonably
well dubbed, and funny.
Fox
Harry Payne
<f...@valkyriepress.co.uk> writes
>I don't recall much swearing in Samurai Pizza Cats.
>
>Admittedly they chucked the original script in the bin, but thay
>replaced it with something that was entertaining, funny, reasonably
>well dubbed, and funny.
*Precisely* - like Magic Roundabout!
SPC even has a certain "je ne sais quoi" when you're watching it in
German (even if German is remarkably free of French phrases like "je ne
sais quoi".
--
Harry
On holiday and dried frog pills
Jim McLennan
f...@valkyriepress.co.uk "Fox" writes:
> I don't recall much swearing in Samurai Pizza Cats.
>
> Admittedly they chucked the original script in the bin, but thay
> replaced it with something that was entertaining, funny, reasonably
> well dubbed, and funny.
Three out of the four (allowing for your duplication!) which apply to UY
I'd say. I seem to recall "Urusei" isn't exactly complimentary, going by
some of the translations of it I've seen!
Jim McLennan
dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
> >As to why it wasn't subtitled, I would imagine that was because the Beeb
> >where producing a programme for people interested in Japan, not for anime
> >fans. It is self evident that a dubbed version is more accessable than a
> >subtitled version
>
> Awooga! Awooga! Proof by blatant assertion detected!
Ok: dubbed material outsells the same material subbed by a large margin.
Fact.
> >It amuses me that the last time a dub like this was produced (The Magic
> >Roundabout) it was hailed as a cult classic.
>
> No-one claimed the Magic Roundabout was a translation.
Vaguely recall it was originally French...?
Lime
news:alH50IAL...@menageri.demon.co.uk...
> In article <9b4d32ea49%snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk>, Matthew
> Hambley <snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >Roundabout) it was hailed as a cult classic.
>
> either.
How many people, when it was first shown back in (IIRC 1987 - I hadn't
started at uni, I know that much) had heard of 'Kyatto Ninden Teyande'?
Seriously, SPC is funny - even if all the jokes have been changed. I'd like
to see what they *were* at some point, but...
--
Honto no watashi ga hirogaru
Phil Baxter
>
> Danger Will Robinson, Danger. If you're not cairfull people are going to
> mistake you for a pompas ass. Translation is always a difficult thing
since
> two languageas and two cultures use language in different ways and have
> different concepts expressed by those languages. Humour doubly so.
Well I might mistake you for someone who doesn't know the hell he's talking
about. Plenty of anime is faithfuly translated and remains funny, such as
AnimEigo's subbed Urusei Yatsura tapes and DVDs for example.
>
> I can not claim to have seen the source material in its original form
however
> from watching the thing the dub did not seem inapropriate for the action
on
> the screen.
Then how can you possibly criticise my viewpoint? I am a BIG UY fan, I have
loved this show and it's original manga for years and to me the BBC's hack
job on it was simply outrageous and hugely disrespectful. Would they have
got a load of British people with strong regional accents to dub The Seven
Samurai? No, because it's a classic. UY is an anime classic, perhaps the
greatest anime TV series ever produced, along with Maison Ikkoku.
>
> As to why it wasn't subtitled, I would imagine that was because the Beeb
> where producing a programme for people interested in Japan, not for anime
> fans. It is self evident that a dubbed version is more accessable than a
> subtitled version and accessability is what was being aimed for in this
case.
They subbed Jin Roh on Sunday, as they did when they showed Akira
previously. They obviously looked on UY as some old rubbish that they could
do what they liked with and nobody would care.
Phil
Fox
<phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Samurai? No, because it's a classic. UY is an anime classic, perhaps the
>greatest anime TV series ever produced, along with Maison Ikkoku.
Look, I'm very fond of UY, and I'll agree that it is a classic (some
parts, more than others), but greatest anime TV series ever? It
doesn't even make my top ten; not sure it would be in the top 20. And
Maison Ikkoku? Mildly entertaining, but I don't watch anime to see
soap opera.
All IMHO of course, but UY is a light comedy with cheap animation.
Original (for its time) and fun, but if you really think that is the
best that anime TV series have to offer then you are missing out on a
lot.
Fox
Wednesday
[david]
>> No-one claimed the Magic Roundabout was a translation.
>Vaguely recall it was originally French...?
It was, but even the books admit flat out that it wasn't a translation;
the guy who wrote the original scripts hated what he'd seen and rewrote
everything from scratch to match what was going on on screen.
Ivan Pintori
<wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>Ivan Pintori <i.pintori@*NO_SPAM*GRAZIE*usa.net> wrote:
>>I know that this will not help you, but If you want I can see to send
>>you a copy of the first 3 episodes as dubbed in Italy some 15 years
>>ago, a whole different bundle. You won't get the language, but the
>>voices are soooooooooooo right, and in sync too!
>
>How widespread is this offer? I'd love to see this too...
Well, up to a couple is ok, more it wouyld kinda cost me, but since
you are the first to show interest, send me an email with your address
and I'l ship you a tape.... for educational reasons of course ;))
Justin Palmer
<i.pintori@*NO_SPAM*GRAZIE*usa.net> writes
>On 08 Aug 2000 00:00:33 +0100 (BST), Wednesday
><wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>Ivan Pintori <i.pintori@*NO_SPAM*GRAZIE*usa.net> wrote:
>ivan
>---
>
>Lum's real Fiancee ;^) Prodly born on the same day as Ataru Moroboshi!
Um... I hate to point this out, but wasn't Ataru born on an
incredibly unlucky date for the Japanese...? ^_^
(snip)
--
"It's a good thing this is anime. |jus...@briareos.demon.co.uk|
It'd be a bit much in real life." | *You never forget |
- Zenjirou, Kodomo no Omocha. | your first Childs Toy* |
Ivan Pintori
<jus...@briareos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Lum's real Fiancee ;^) Prodly born on the same day as Ataru Moroboshi!
>
> Um... I hate to point this out, but wasn't Ataru born on an
>incredibly unlucky date for the Japanese...? ^_^
the 13th is incredibly unlucky for the Italians as well, but then
again I managed to pass my teen phase pretty much unscarred. I started
watching Lum when I was 14 or so, you may imagine that my role model
is Ataru Moroboshi... he may beunlucky, but he has such a strenght in
life ;))
ivan
ps: I wonder what my wife may think of all this! ;))
---
Lum's real Fiancee ;^) Prodly born on the same day as Ataru Moroboshi!
Cadetto della U.N. Spacy - Ivan "Ataru Moroboshi" Pintori
David Damerell
> dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
>>>As to why it wasn't subtitled, I would imagine that was because the Beeb
>>>where producing a programme for people interested in Japan, not for anime
>>>fans. It is self evident that a dubbed version is more accessable than a
>>>subtitled version
>Ok: dubbed material outsells the same material subbed by a large margin.
That doesn't tell you much about accessibility. A sub is inaccessible to
very slow readers. A dub is inaccessible to the deaf. I don't have much
information about relative numbers, and I imagine you don't either.
>>>It amuses me that the last time a dub like this was produced (The Magic
>>>Roundabout) it was hailed as a cult classic.
>>No-one claimed the Magic Roundabout was a translation.
>Vaguely recall it was originally French...?
The visuals are French, yes. The dialogue does not bear any particular
relationship to the original; I don't mean a hatchet job like US Sailor
Moon or 'Cardcaptors' or even Robotech, but something prepared essentially
from scratch.
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
Find advice on news posting style at http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html
the free and easy way to save yourself from looking like a complete idiot...
Michael M Mason
<dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>Jim McLennan <jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
>>>No-one claimed the Magic Roundabout was a translation.
>>Vaguely recall it was originally French...?
>The visuals are French, yes. The dialogue does not bear any particular
>relationship to the original; I don't mean a hatchet job like US Sailor
>Moon or 'Cardcaptors' or even Robotech, but something prepared essentially
>from scratch.
The story as I heard it (probably thirty years ago) was that the chap
involved worked by watching the film/tape with the sound turned off
and writing stories to fit what he saw.
--
Michael
Ian Abbott
<i.pintori@*NO_SPAM*GRAZIE*usa.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:37:14 +0100, Justin Palmer
><jus...@briareos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Lum's real Fiancee ;^) Prodly born on the same day as Ataru Moroboshi!
>>
>> Um... I hate to point this out, but wasn't Ataru born on an
>>incredibly unlucky date for the Japanese...? ^_^
>
>the 13th is incredibly unlucky for the Italians as well, but then
>again I managed to pass my teen phase pretty much unscarred. I started
>watching Lum when I was 14 or so, you may imagine that my role model
>is Ataru Moroboshi... he may beunlucky, but he has such a strenght in
>life ;))
Wouldn't Ataru be born on the 4th of something (April perhaps?), this
being Japan and all? (Though Judeo/Christian superstitutions are
referenced within UY as well, so maybe not. I know Viz replaced 4 with
13 in various places, like the number on Ataru's vest during the 'tag'
game.)
>ivan
>ps: I wonder what my wife may think of all this! ;))
She probably won't mind too much until you give her a DIY Lum kit[1]
as a present and expect her to wear it!
[1] Like what was on auction at AyaCon '98 (I think).
--
Ian James Abbott |*| "Konya wa 'Hurricane'!" -- Priss
i...@abbott.org |*| "Konya wa shichuu kana?" -- Mink
Justin Palmer
<i.pintori@*NO_SPAM*GRAZIE*usa.net> writes
>On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:37:14 +0100, Justin Palmer
><jus...@briareos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Lum's real Fiancee ;^) Prodly born on the same day as Ataru Moroboshi!
>>
>> Um... I hate to point this out, but wasn't Ataru born on an
>>incredibly unlucky date for the Japanese...? ^_^
>
>the 13th is incredibly unlucky for the Italians as well, but then
>again I managed to pass my teen phase pretty much unscarred.
<Pessimist> that just means you've got it coming. ^_^
>I started
>watching Lum when I was 14 or so, you may imagine that my role model
>is Ataru Moroboshi...
<choke> Weren't we just saying the other day that Ataru would be
pretty close to the top of a list of the *worst* anime role models? ^_^
> he may beunlucky, but he has such a strenght in
>life ;))
>
I'm not sure about strength, but determination, oh, yes. ^_^
Unstoppable force that ran into immovable object, sometimes known as
Lum...!
>ivan
>ps: I wonder what my wife may think of all this! ;))
>
You'll know after the first electrical shock...! ^_^ BTW, you
might have guessed, but you have a fellow Urusei Yatsura fan here... and
I guess you're also fond of Macross from your signature? You'll do well
here. ^_^
Ian Abbott
Dor the curious, this 'chap' people have been mentioning was Eric
Thompson, who also did the naration and was Emma Thompson (the
actress)'s dad.
Nigel Planar did the same thing for a specially commissioned, much
more recent series, which is the one usually shown on C4 these days.
<zebedee> Time for bed! <boing/></zebedee>
Jon Ziggy Lawson
<happosai...@zen.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>Harry Payne <ha...@menageri.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <9b4d32ea49%snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk>,
>Matthew
>>Hambley <snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>overmuch,
>>either.
>
>aware friends - I made a lot of allowances for the
>westernisations of the dialogue, as I appreciate the difficulty
>in translating various aspects of foreign languages, but my
>friends just thought is was full of really awful puns and
>couldn't see the attraction!
When I used to watch SPC, I was only semi-aware that it was anime (in
a kind of 'oh, it's that Japanese stuff' kind of way). I used to love
it - with it's puns and it's repetitive transformaion sequences and it
not making sense - and the blatantly homosexual bad guy that they
tried to gloss over but it never quite worked. Oh, yeah and that
pink one - errr... can't remember her name, but - y'know.
--
C-ya. Ziggy. Fansubs UK: www.geocities.com/shinji440/fsuk.html
Excel Saga: www.geocities.com/shinji440/excel/
Wednesday
>The story as I heard it (probably thirty years ago) was that the chap
>involved worked by watching the film/tape with the sound turned off
>and writing stories to fit what he saw.
IIRC that's in the preface of the Dougal book.
Martin D. Pay
jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk (Jim McLennan) mangled
uncounted electrons thus:
>In article <BBq*ze...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
>
>> >As to why it wasn't subtitled, I would imagine that was because the Beeb
>> >where producing a programme for people interested in Japan, not for anime
>> >fans. It is self evident that a dubbed version is more accessable than a
>> >subtitled version
>>
>> Awooga! Awooga! Proof by blatant assertion detected!
>
>Ok: dubbed material outsells the same material subbed by a large margin.
>Fact.
>
>> >It amuses me that the last time a dub like this was produced (The Magic
>> >Roundabout) it was hailed as a cult classic.
>>
>> No-one claimed the Magic Roundabout was a translation.
>
>Vaguely recall it was originally French...?
Yup. The late Eric Thomson (actress Emma Thomson's father) who
did the voice work also wrote the English script. He ignored the
original and made up his own stories to fit what was happening on
screen...
(You don't *really* think the French original had a hippy rabbit
called Dylan, did you? Not to mention Dougal... ^_^ )
Martin D. Pay
'Time for bed,' said Zebedee...
Jim McLennan
dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
> >Ok: dubbed material outsells the same material subbed by a large margin.
>
> That doesn't tell you much about accessibility. A sub is inaccessible to
> very slow readers. A dub is inaccessible to the deaf. I don't have much
> information about relative numbers, and I imagine you don't either.
A ludicrously narrow definition of "inaccessible". Perfectly able-bodied
people prefer dubs, not just the visually-impaired or illiterate. Why,
given that subs provide a superior translation and better voice acting?
Because they find subs inaccessible. Doesn't even have to be "very slow
readers" - never forget that a sub produced for the average reading speed,
will be too fast for almost half the population...
> >>No-one claimed the Magic Roundabout was a translation.
> >Vaguely recall it was originally French...?
>
> The visuals are French, yes. The dialogue does not bear any particular
> relationship to the original; I don't mean a hatchet job like US Sailor
> Moon or 'Cardcaptors' or even Robotech, but something prepared essentially
> from scratch.
So, what were the stories in the original about then?
Lime
news:aCB*zt...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> It was, but even the books admit flat out that it wasn't a translation;
> the guy who wrote the original scripts hated what he'd seen and rewrote
> everything from scratch to match what was going on on screen.
Indeed. Emma Thompson's father, IIRC...
Later episodes were (re)written by Nigel Planer...
David Damerell
> dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
>>>Ok: dubbed material outsells the same material subbed by a large margin.
>>That doesn't tell you much about accessibility. A sub is inaccessible to
>>very slow readers. A dub is inaccessible to the deaf. I don't have much
>>information about relative numbers, and I imagine you don't either.
>A ludicrously narrow definition of "inaccessible".
Errr, no. That's what it means. Perhaps the original poster shouldn't have
used the word 'accessible'?
>>>Vaguely recall it was originally French...?
>>The visuals are French, yes. The dialogue does not bear any particular
>>relationship to the original; I don't mean a hatchet job like US Sailor
>>Moon or 'Cardcaptors' or even Robotech, but something prepared essentially
>>from scratch.
>So, what were the stories in the original about then?
How the devil should I know?
--
David/Kirsty Damerell, dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk. All Hail Discordia!
| | And then they came and took me out, The men of doom and malice: | |
|---|Destroyed my life, removed my sense, Gave me the poisoned chalice.|---|
| | | My betrayal's life to me... Elder Sign: Treachery | | |
Stuart Dawson
<phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Well I might mistake you for someone who doesn't know the hell he's talking
>about. Plenty of anime is faithfuly translated and remains funny, such as
>AnimEigo's subbed Urusei Yatsura tapes and DVDs for example.
Correct. They also usually supply people with many and extensive
liner notes (on screen aswell as crumple ware) to explain the jokes.
I can't see the BBC doing that somehow....
><snip> I am a BIG UY fan, I have
>loved this show and it's original manga for years and to me the BBC's hack
>job on it was simply outrageous and hugely disrespectful.
<snip more of the same>
An impressive screaming fanboy rant there.
NOMI CON - the other uk anime convention this year ^_^
8-10th September 2000 at Bradford University
http://www.yata.org.uk/nomicon
Rurik Hazell
Yeah, right:b Heavy, man!^_~ (sorry, couldn't resist!)
Rurik
Stephen Harris
> ><jus...@briareos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>Lum's real Fiancee ;^) Prodly born on the same day as Ataru Moroboshi!
> >>
> >> Um... I hate to point this out, but wasn't Ataru born on an
> >>incredibly unlucky date for the Japanese...? ^_^
> >
> >the 13th is incredibly unlucky for the Italians as well, but then
> >watching Lum when I was 14 or so, you may imagine that my role model
> >life ;))
>
> being Japan and all? (Though Judeo/Christian superstitutions are
> referenced within UY as well, so maybe not. I know Viz replaced 4 with
> 13 in various places, like the number on Ataru's vest during the 'tag'
> game.)
I think it's the day of Buddha's death. 13th April I think. (It'll be in the notes
some where)
--
Stephen Harris s...@sasahara-natsukiUNIFORM.freeserve.co.uk
Remove Natsuki's clothes to reply, you know you want to. ^_^
"Dangle... Dangle... @_@" - Natsuki Sasahara
Guest Quote "No, rabbits don't make a noise like 'pu'" Umi-chan
Jim McLennan
dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
> >>>Vaguely recall it was originally French...?
> >>The visuals are French, yes. The dialogue does not bear any particular
> >>relationship to the original; I don't mean a hatchet job like US Sailor
> >>Moon or 'Cardcaptors' or even Robotech, but something prepared essentially
> >>from scratch.
> >So, what were the stories in the original about then?
>
> How the devil should I know?
Sorry, when you said:
"The dialogue does not bear any particular relationship to the original"
I thought you perhaps had seen the original, and knew what you were talking
about. Dumb mistake, I guess. Won't happen again. ;-)
Anyway, strikes me that even prepared from scratch, given a certain set
of visuals, you are going to come up with something which is likely to
be in the same ball-park as the original. You'll have a hard time trying
to convince me that the original for 'Samurai Pizza Cats' was anything
else but a daft comedy. Same goes for 'The Magic Roundabout' -- we are
clearly not talking Shakespeare. When you are constrained by the visuals,
you can only go a limited distance from the original without flagging it
as a deliberate piss-take i.e. 'What's Up Tiger Lily'.
Ian Abbott
<stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:34:57 +0100, "Phil Baxter"
><phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>><snip> I am a BIG UY fan, I have
>>loved this show and it's original manga for years and to me the BBC's hack
>>job on it was simply outrageous and hugely disrespectful.
><snip more of the same>
>
>An impressive screaming fanboy rant there.
"'Screaming Fanboy Rant' _K_I_C_K_ !!!!!"
David Damerell
> dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
>Sorry, when you said:
> "The dialogue does not bear any particular relationship to the original"
>I thought you perhaps had seen the original, and knew what you were talking
>about.
I do know what I'm talking about; the dialogue does not bear any
particular relationship to the original; you quite evidently don't know
what you're talking about; and I'm beginning to understand why Wednesday
thinks you're a patronising arsehole.
--
This .signature intentionally left blank
"I really don't fancy Akane" - Tom Jordaan
Wednesday
>Sorry, when you said:
> "The dialogue does not bear any particular relationship to the original"
>I thought you perhaps had seen the original, and knew what you were talking
>about.
Why does he have to see the original? All he has to do is read the preface
to _The Adventures Of Dougal_. Go to Waterstones for a few minutes. It's
right there in black and white.
Buy it, too. Dead good.
Stuart Dawson
>><snip more of the same>
>"'Screaming Fanboy Rant' _K_I_C_K_ !!!!!"
"'Screaming Fanboy Rant' SHIELD!"
Inu Yasha
>On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:55:55 +0100, Stuart Dawson
><stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:34:57 +0100, "Phil Baxter"
>><phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>><snip> I am a BIG UY fan, I have
>>>loved this show and it's original manga for years and to me the BBC's hack
>>>job on it was simply outrageous and hugely disrespectful.
>><snip more of the same>
>>
>>An impressive screaming fanboy rant there.
>
>"'Screaming Fanboy Rant' _K_I_C_K_ !!!!!"
Did you have to?
I now have this image in my head of a cross between Prince Philionel from
Slayers and Kubo/Tanaka from Otaku no Video attacking someone from the BBC,
or MV etc..
Screaming Fanboy kick!
All dubs suck punch!
etc. etc.
--
Pika-Pika!
FC1.3
FFD3a/FD2m A-- C->++ D H+ M++ P? R T+++ W-- Z Sm+/f+++
RLCT a cadlnw++$ d++ e+>++ f- h*>++ iw++ j++>+++ p**>? sm#
Ivan Pintori
As we live in the same city, you may come along to watch the copy, if
you wish!
ivan
On 08 Aug 2000 00:00:33 +0100 (BST), Wednesday
<wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>Ivan Pintori <i.pintori@*NO_SPAM*GRAZIE*usa.net> wrote:
>>I know that this will not help you, but If you want I can see to send
>>you a copy of the first 3 episodes as dubbed in Italy some 15 years
>>ago, a whole different bundle. You won't get the language, but the
>>voices are soooooooooooo right, and in sync too!
>
>How widespread is this offer? I'd love to see this too...
---
Lum's real Fiancee ;^) Prodly born on the same day as Ataru Moroboshi!
Cadetto della U.N. Spacy - Ivan "Ataru Moroboshi" Pintori
Daniel Fawcett
[snip]
> >"'Screaming Fanboy Rant' _K_I_C_K_ !!!!!"
>
>
"Blood code blue"
"Oh my god...... it's a Fanboy"
"Launch Unit-01! Deploy an N2 mine!"
La Tristesse Durera,
DJF
Matthew Hambley
"Rurik Hazell" <rurik....@virgin.net> wrote:
> > Danger Will Robinson, Danger. If you're not cairfull people are going to
> > mistake you for a pompas ass. Translation is always a difficult thing
> > since two languageas and two cultures use language in different ways and
> > have different concepts expressed by those languages. Humour doubly so.
> >
>
> Much as I hate to admit it, you're right - puns, especially, don't work
> well in translation, so an open mind's often needed when it comes to
> translation.
Last thing I heard it wasn't illegal to agree with me. Hay, maybe the
slipped it in under cover of the Regulation of Investigative Powers bill.
> A few members of my club get so het up with exact translations, it's
> amazing. My only complaint about translations are when the names are
> completely changed, such as the sailor senshi getting names other than
> their original Japanese ones (each of which had very appropriate meanings).
> And note I said senshi, as in soldier, not the horrible "scout"!^_^
I think this highlights the problem with translation. You appear to be
suggesting that the literal translation would be 'sailor soldier' which is
clumsy and doesn't really work. Perhapse a better literal translation would
be 'marine' (since they are sailor soldiers or maybe soldier sailors) but
that does't really seem to work either.
--
(\/)atthew Hambley ----------------\ If something's worth doing it's worth
\ doing badly until you can learn to
snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk \ do it well.
http://www.therealm.freeserve.co.uk/ \-----------------------------------
Matthew Hambley
"Phil Baxter" <phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > Danger Will Robinson, Danger. If you're not cairfull people are going to
> > mistake you for a pompas ass. Translation is always a difficult thing
> > since two languageas and two cultures use language in different ways and
> > have different concepts expressed by those languages. Humour doubly so.
>
> Well I might mistake you for someone who doesn't know the hell he's talking
> about. Plenty of anime is faithfuly translated and remains funny, such as
> AnimEigo's subbed Urusei Yatsura tapes and DVDs for example.
There should be no reason for you to mistake me for that. I stated it
further down my post.
> > I can not claim to have seen the source material in its original form
> > however from watching the thing the dub did not seem inapropriate for the
> > action on the screen.
>
> Then how can you possibly criticise my viewpoint? I am a BIG UY fan, I have
> loved this show and it's original manga for years and to me the BBC's hack
> job on it was simply outrageous and hugely disrespectful.
[snip]
I can critisise your viewpoint because this is Use-net which is a disucssion
forum. I am attempting to engage in discussion here. I hope to bring the
non-fan-boy view to procedings.
[snip]
> They subbed Jin Roh on Sunday, as they did when they showed Akira
> previously. They obviously looked on UY as some old rubbish that they could
> do what they liked with and nobody would care.
I hope the BBC would not show programmes which it considered rubbish.
Fox
<snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Much as I hate to admit it, you're right - puns, especially, don't work
>> well in translation, so an open mind's often needed when it comes to
>> translation.
>
>Last thing I heard it wasn't illegal to agree with me. Hay, maybe the
>slipped it in under cover of the Regulation of Investigative Powers bill.
Only on thursdays.
>> A few members of my club get so het up with exact translations, it's
>> amazing. My only complaint about translations are when the names are
>> completely changed, such as the sailor senshi getting names other than
>> their original Japanese ones (each of which had very appropriate meanings).
>> And note I said senshi, as in soldier, not the horrible "scout"!^_^
>
>I think this highlights the problem with translation. You appear to be
>suggesting that the literal translation would be 'sailor soldier' which is
>clumsy and doesn't really work. Perhapse a better literal translation would
>be 'marine' (since they are sailor soldiers or maybe soldier sailors) but
>that does't really seem to work either.
"Sailor Warriors" is an alternative translation that has been used.
"Scouts" seems to trivialize the characters, somehow.
Fox
--
Mata baka
Wednesday
>I think this highlights the problem with translation. You appear to be
>suggesting that the literal translation would be 'sailor soldier' which is
>clumsy and doesn't really work.
Sounded just fine in the henshin BGM for the SuperS movie.
Daniel Fawcett
[snip]
>
> "Sailor Warriors" is an alternative translation that has been used.
> "Scouts" seems to trivialize the characters, somehow.
>
Agreed. However, it makes them sound more feminine, which is probably
(unfortuanatly) why DiC chose it...
--
"If fate is already decided, can nothing be done
against it?
The End and the Future are one, but we keep on
living... for the future" - X:1999
Digital Anime UK - http://www.animedvds.co.uk/
Tom Jordaan
There's currently a thread on fj.life.in-japan with the title "Fanboys in
Japan..."
--
"It's so fun messing with you." - Nakago, Fushigi Yuugi ep 44
The Whole Love Thing. Again. Coming 02/06/2001 @ ShoujoCon II
Banana Fish, Ultraviolet, This Life: www.phlebas.demon.co.uk
Lime
news:8c012ed49%snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk...
> Perhapse a better literal translation would
> be 'marine' (since they are sailor soldiers or maybe soldier sailors) but
> that does't really seem to work either.
I have a feeling that the 'sailor' part merely refers to their outfits
rather than having any direct naval links. [I mean, when did they actually
go anywhere by boat? ^-^]
Jim McLennan
wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "Wednesday" writes:
> Jim McLennan <jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Sorry, when you said:
> > "The dialogue does not bear any particular relationship to the original"
> >I thought you perhaps had seen the original, and knew what you were talking
> >about.
>
> Why does he have to see the original? All he has to do is read the preface
> to _The Adventures Of Dougal_. Go to Waterstones for a few minutes. It's
> right there in black and white.
What is - "The dialogue does not bear any particular relationship to the
original"? Perhaps "I've read that" would have been nice! Besides, do you
(and he) believe EVERYTHING you read? For here's a scenario: strikes me as
conceivable that Eric Thomson would be FAR happier claiming all the credit
(and residuals!) for himself, rather than giving any credit (and residuals)
to the original writers.
This is why I'd prefer to believe someone who has seen both shows, but gets
no financial benefit from the outcome...certainly more so than someone
making statements without providing any backing. Especially if they become
foul-mouthed should you dare question their authority - for which we have
yet to see any evidence, since he's never even mentioned the book AFAICS.
Not that I regard "I read it in a book" as proof of expertise...
But even if Thomson is being entirely straight, AND knew absolutely no
French at all (probably unlikely), so had entirely no idea what was going
on, the dialogue will still be based on what's on screen -- be this in
English or French, it's still going to end up as the same thing. If two
different writers independently do reports on the same football match,
even if they support different teams, the final score won't change!
Fox
jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk (Jim McLennan) wrote:
>
>But even if Thomson is being entirely straight, AND knew absolutely no
>French at all (probably unlikely), so had entirely no idea what was going
>on, the dialogue will still be based on what's on screen -- be this in
>English or French, it's still going to end up as the same thing. If two
>different writers independently do reports on the same football match,
>even if they support different teams, the final score won't change!
IIRC the original relied heavily on Dougal's very bad scottish/french
accent, which doesn't really translate...
Fox
--
Mata baka
Rurik Hazell
>(unfortuanatly) why DiC chose it...
(LOL) Lord Baden-Powell would turn in his grave if you said his Scouts were
feminine. No, they just picked it because they're terrible translators, as
we all know.^_^
Rurik
Stuart Dawson
<rurik....@virgin.net> wrote:
>(LOL) Lord Baden-Powell would turn in his grave if you said his Scouts were
>feminine.
Turn faster you mean. They've been letting girls join the Scouts for
years now. The last official report said BP was doing about 2400rpm.
^_^
Matthew Hambley
Stuart Dawson <stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 06:12:12 +0100, "Rurik Hazell"
> <rurik....@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> > (LOL) Lord Baden-Powell would turn in his grave if you said his Scouts
> > were feminine.
>
> Turn faster you mean. They've been letting girls join the Scouts for years
> now. The last official report said BP was doing about 2400rpm. ^_^
I imagine it must have been dificult for him when he was expected to 1200/75
rpm. He can't go much faster before he has to start compressing.
Matthew Hambley
"Lime" <Li...@nergal.co.uk> wrote:
That's highly likely but I was interested in the direction that particular
thought process was taking me. If you take sailor to refer to their school
uniform an alternate translation might be 'School Girl Soldiers' (since to
the best of my knowledge boys aren't inflicted with the maritime theme in
their school uniform) which pretty acurately describes them.
David Damerell
> wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "Wednesday" writes:
>>Why does he have to see the original? All he has to do is read the preface
>>to _The Adventures Of Dougal_. Go to Waterstones for a few minutes. It's
>>right there in black and white.
>What is - "The dialogue does not bear any particular relationship to the
>original"? Perhaps "I've read that" would have been nice! Besides, do you
>(and he) believe EVERYTHING you read? For here's a scenario: strikes me as
>conceivable that Eric Thomson would be FAR happier claiming all the credit
>(and residuals!) for himself, rather than giving any credit (and residuals)
>to the original writers.
If you actually bothered to check anything for yourself instead of talking
rubbish, you'd know that Eric Thomson was dead at the time that preface
was written. Credit grabbing from beyond the grave!
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
|___| You bought a mask: I put it on: you never thought to ask me if I wear
| | | it when you're gone. The Sisters of Mercy: When You Don't See Me.
David Damerell
> "Phil Baxter" <phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>They subbed Jin Roh on Sunday, as they did when they showed Akira
>>previously. They obviously looked on UY as some old rubbish that they could
>>do what they liked with and nobody would care.
>I hope the BBC would not show programmes which it considered rubbish.
You don't watch much TV, do you?
Jim McLennan
dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "David Damerell" writes:
> If you actually bothered to check anything for yourself instead of talking
> rubbish, you'd know that Eric Thomson was dead at the time that preface
> was written. Credit grabbing from beyond the grave!
It just gets better! So, when you claim to know what you're talking about,
what you ACTUALLY mean is, you read it in the preface to a book written by
a bloke who had talked to Thomson some time previously? I've not exactly
overwhelmed by these credentials...
Of course, you could be perfectly correct - but pardon me if I choose not
to rely on your third-hand hearsay.
Wednesday
>It just gets better! So, when you claim to know what you're talking about,
>what you ACTUALLY mean is, you read it in the preface to a book written by
>a bloke who had talked to Thomson some time previously?
_The Adventures Of Dougal_ is one of a series of books compiling the
English language scripts for _The Magic Roundabout_. The preface to the
book was written *by his daughter*.
It was a bestseller what, eighteen months ago?
Lime
news:Q-E*a-...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> Matthew Hambley <snow...@therealm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > "Phil Baxter" <phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >>They subbed Jin Roh on Sunday, as they did when they showed Akira
> >>previously. They obviously looked on UY as some old rubbish that they
could
> >>do what they liked with and nobody would care.
> >I hope the BBC would not show programmes which it considered rubbish.
>
> You don't watch much TV, do you?
I agree they have absolutely no hesitation in foisting unspeakable junk on
the public - but I'm sure that they think they're wonderful...
Fox
wrote:
>> > "Phil Baxter" <phil....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> >>They subbed Jin Roh on Sunday, as they did when they showed Akira
>> >>previously. They obviously looked on UY as some old rubbish that they
>could
>> >>do what they liked with and nobody would care.
>> >I hope the BBC would not show programmes which it considered rubbish.
>>
>> You don't watch much TV, do you?
>
>
>I agree they have absolutely no hesitation in foisting unspeakable junk on
>the public - but I'm sure that they think they're wonderful...
No, I believe they think the progs are rubbish too, but that the
viewers will be fooled. I'd give examples, but thinking about some of
the dregs that have acheived popularity just depresses me.
Fox
--
Mata baka
Jim McLennan
wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "Wednesday" writes:
> _The Adventures Of Dougal_ is one of a series of books compiling the
> English language scripts for _The Magic Roundabout_. The preface to the
> book was written *by his daughter*.
...who interestingly enough is probably now the beneficiary of the
residuals I previously mentioned. Dare I suggest she thus has an interest
in keeping anyone bar her father from claiming credit for the show?
[Anyone remember Emma's last big movie? :-)]
> It was a bestseller what, eighteen months ago?
As a matter of interest, when did Eric Thomson himself die? Just so we can
judge how much water has gone under the bridge since.
Lime
> No, I believe they think the progs are rubbish too, but that the
> viewers will be fooled. I'd give examples, but thinking about some of
> the dregs that have acheived popularity just depresses me.
That's... depressing. I remember when I used to write - and while I was
writing something I'd think it was decent enough. With hindsight it was just
rubbish. But at the time... Anything that I didn't like at the time ended up
in the bin... [and never got very far either]
In fact I think that's why I stopped- the realisation that I was just
wasting my time...
Nick Roberts
> In article <x1g*uA...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "Wednesday" writes:
>
> > _The Adventures Of Dougal_ is one of a series of books compiling
> > the English language scripts for _The Magic Roundabout_. The
> > preface to the book was written *by his daughter*.
>
> ...who interestingly enough is probably now the beneficiary of the
> residuals I previously mentioned. Dare I suggest she thus has an
> interest in keeping anyone bar her father from claiming credit for
> the show? [Anyone remember Emma's last big movie? :-)]
Jim, you can't have it both ways - either stick to the "you don't have
any evidence" line, or the "they were lying so they didn't have to pay
anyone else any royalties" argument. Your last 4 posts have toggled
from one to the other with gay abandon.
Anyway, the residuals argument just doesn't bear close investigation.
It would be trivially easy for a possible claimant to royalties to be
able to prove that the scripts were, if not identical, so close as to
amount to plagiarism. The lack of any such claims would indicate that
the English scripts were in fact written by Thomson.
> > It was a bestseller what, eighteen months ago?
Rather longer. It was on when I was still at school, which is <zzt>
<crackle> years ago.
> As a matter of interest, when did Eric Thomson himself die? Just so
> we can judge how much water has gone under the bridge since.
As for who wrote the English version, it was common knowledge at the
time that Eric Thomson wrote the English script. OK, common knowledge
is often innacurate - but a French student[1] at my school confirmed
it, having been exposed to both.
[1] Not, unfortunately, the gorgeous female exchange student so beloved
of anime - it was an all-boys school. Or at least, if it /was/ a
gorgeous female exchange student, her disguise was impeccable.
--
Nick Roberts
tigger @ argonet.co.uk ZFC Rh http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tigger/
Fox
>> No, I believe they think the progs are rubbish too, but that the
>> viewers will be fooled. I'd give examples, but thinking about some of
>> the dregs that have acheived popularity just depresses me.
>
>
>That's... depressing. I remember when I used to write - and while I was
>writing something I'd think it was decent enough. With hindsight it was just
>rubbish. But at the time... Anything that I didn't like at the time ended up
>in the bin... [and never got very far either]
>In fact I think that's why I stopped- the realisation that I was just
>wasting my time...
Conversely, one of the reasons I ended up doing comics professionally
was because I got to the point where I had said "I can do better than
that" enough times about the comics I was reading that I felt it was
time to put my money where my mouth was and actually have a go.
Fox
--
Mata baka
Jim McLennan
tig...@argonet.co.uk "Nick Roberts" writes:
> Jim, you can't have it both ways - either stick to the "you don't have
> any evidence" line, or the "they were lying so they didn't have to pay
> anyone else any royalties" argument. Your last 4 posts have toggled
> from one to the other with gay abandon.
I don't see the two as incompatible. A) the only evidence Mr.Damerell has
provided so far is third-hand quotes. B) these are from people with a
financial interest in claiming credit.
> Anyway, the residuals argument just doesn't bear close investigation.
> It would be trivially easy for a possible claimant to royalties to be
> able to prove that the scripts were, if not identical, so close as to
> amount to plagiarism. The lack of any such claims would indicate that
> the English scripts were in fact written by Thomson.
I've never denied he wrote them. I'm just keen to discover how close
they are to the French scripts i.e. how much are they a translation.
> As for who wrote the English version, it was common knowledge at the
> time that Eric Thomson wrote the English script. OK, common knowledge
> is often innacurate - but a French student[1] at my school confirmed
> it, having been exposed to both.
That's probably the best evidence so far in this thread. Though what
exactly did he confirm? That Eric Thomson wrote the English script?
> [1] Not, unfortunately, the gorgeous female exchange student so beloved
> of anime - it was an all-boys school. Or at least, if it /was/ a
> gorgeous female exchange student, her disguise was impeccable.
They always are. :-)
Nick Roberts
> In article <523a3af0...@bc63.argonet.co.uk>
> tig...@argonet.co.uk "Nick Roberts" writes:
>
> > Jim, you can't have it both ways - either stick to the "you don't
> > have any evidence" line, or the "they were lying so they didn't
> > have to pay anyone else any royalties" argument. Your last 4 posts
> > have toggled from one to the other with gay abandon.
>
> I don't see the two as incompatible. A) the only evidence Mr.Damerell
> has provided so far is third-hand quotes. B) these are from people
> with a financial interest in claiming credit.
They are incompatible. Either he has evidnce or he hasn't. Whether the
evidence is tarnished by a financial interest is something else.
> > Anyway, the residuals argument just doesn't bear close investigation.
> > It would be trivially easy for a possible claimant to royalties to be
> > able to prove that the scripts were, if not identical, so close as to
> > amount to plagiarism. The lack of any such claims would indicate that
> > the English scripts were in fact written by Thomson.
>
> I've never denied he wrote them. I'm just keen to discover how close
> they are to the French scripts i.e. how much are they a translation.
OK, if you insist on being so literal-minded:
"The lack of any such claims would indicate that the English scripts
were in fact an original work by Thomson, rather than simply a
translation."
Happy now?
>
> > As for who wrote the English version, it was common knowledge at
> > the time that Eric Thomson wrote the English script. OK, common
> > knowledge is often innacurate - but a French student[1] at my
> > school confirmed it, having been exposed to both.
>
> That's probably the best evidence so far in this thread. Though what
> exactly did he confirm? That Eric Thomson wrote the English script?
That the French and English scripts are quite different - specifically,
the English script had much more humour likely to appeal to adults.
As far as I'm aware, he had no knowledge of the exact provenance of the
English version - but are you now suggesting that the English script
was in fact original, but that Thomson stole it from someone else?
Isn't that taking conspiracy theory just a bit far?
Jim McLennan
tig...@argonet.co.uk "Nick Roberts" writes:
> They are incompatible. Either he has evidnce or he hasn't. Whether the
> evidence is tarnished by a financial interest is something else.
Something else, I agree. Scarcely incompatible, since it could certainly
be the case, entirely regardless of whether said evidence is in his
possession or not. My point was that he initially provided no evidence
for the claims; if it transpires subsequently that he "read it in a book",
that doesn't prove it's true!
> "The lack of any such claims would indicate that the English scripts
> were in fact an original work by Thomson, rather than simply a
> translation."
>
> Happy now?
By this principle, all the artists who AREN'T suing Napster must be happy
to have their work ripped off there. Or if no-one is charged with a murder,
it must have been an accidental death. Doesn't follow at all.
> > That's probably the best evidence so far in this thread. Though what
> > exactly did he confirm? That Eric Thomson wrote the English script?
>
> That the French and English scripts are quite different - specifically,
> the English script had much more humour likely to appeal to adults.
Fine. I have no problem with this at all. Finally, we find someone who
can speak with a bit of authority rather than simply regurgitating stuff
he read.
Wednesday
>Fine. I have no problem with this at all. Finally, we find someone who
>can speak with a bit of authority rather than simply regurgitating stuff
>he read.
I don't see where a secondhand report of what someone watched is any
more authoritative. But, then, I suspect David or I could invent a time
machine, put you in it, send you back, and force you to observe the process
and you'd discount it, based on previous experiences of attempting to
argue with you -- if someone else had brought up _Adventures Of Dougal_,
I think you'd have taken it as truth, or at least gone out and bought a
copy for yourself to verify that what was said was in it. Not that I'm
saying the secondhand report of a French speaker's experience is any
LESS valid, because I'm not.
French is my first language -- blame fucking Quebec -- so how about this:
If someone can get me a copy of some French Magic Roundabout, or even go
so far as to give me information on where I can procure some, I am *happy*
to compare (it would probably be stretching to try and get exact episode
matches). Unless, as me, I'm an inherently untrustworthy source.
David Damerell
>On 18 Aug, jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk (Jim McLennan) wrote:
>>...who interestingly enough is probably now the beneficiary of the
>>residuals I previously mentioned. Dare I suggest she thus has an
>>interest in keeping anyone bar her father from claiming credit for
>>the show? [Anyone remember Emma's last big movie? :-)]
>Jim, you can't have it both ways - either stick to the "you don't have
>any evidence" line, or the "they were lying so they didn't have to pay
>anyone else any royalties" argument. Your last 4 posts have toggled
>from one to the other with gay abandon.
... as he is told new facts. It wouldn't happen if he'd actually bothered
to find out any for himself, but that might actually mean admitting he was
talking bollocks.
Tune into umaa next week as a global conspiracy between Eric Thompson's
ghost, his daughter, the CIA, Mossad, Genom and NERV to silence the real
truth about who wrote The Magic Roundabout is exposed - a truth that only
Jim 'Scully' McLennan has the courage to reveal.
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
|___| IV - A Discordian shall Partake of No Hot Dog Buns, for Such was the
| | | Solace of Our Goddess when She was Confronted with The Original Snub.
Daniel Fawcett
[snip]
>
> Tune into umaa next week as a global conspiracy between Eric Thompson's
> ghost, his daughter, the CIA, Mossad, Genom and NERV to silence the real
> truth about who wrote The Magic Roundabout is exposed - a truth that only
> Jim 'Scully' McLennan has the courage to reveal.
Nah, wouldn't it be Jim "Mulder" McLennan trying to reveal it? ^_^
If he was Scully he'd be constantly blind to the facts despite it going on
right in front of his eyes and deny it because it doesn't follow science ^_^
--
"Everyone I've loved or hated always seems
to leave" - Manic Street Preachers, "Yes"
Lime
news:8nufsi$5pb$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
> If he was Scully he'd be constantly blind to the facts despite it going on
> right in front of his eyes and deny it because it doesn't follow science
^_^
Scully is proof that just as seeing is believing, believing is also seeing.
From her point of view all the strange phenomena have Someone Else's Problem
Fields protecting them...
Jim McLennan
wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "Wednesday" writes:
> I don't see where a secondhand report of what someone watched is any
> more authoritative.
It's the only time we have heard ANYTHING from someone who has actually
seen the French version. Got any evidence Emma Thompson has seen it?
If not, then SHE is merely repeating hearsay, and quoting her is even
further removed.
> if someone else had brought up _Adventures Of Dougal_,
> I think you'd have taken it as truth, or at least gone out and bought a
> copy for yourself to verify that what was said was in it.
David never mentioned he'd read it in a book. That's why I asked if he'd
seen the show, which is where this all began...
> French is my first language -- blame fucking Quebec -- so how about this:
> If someone can get me a copy of some French Magic Roundabout, or even go
> so far as to give me information on where I can procure some, I am *happy*
> to compare (it would probably be stretching to try and get exact episode
> matches). Unless, as me, I'm an inherently untrustworthy source.
Hell, if I could get a copy, my French would probably let me tell if it
was entirely different as has been claimed. But that's the point - NO-ONE
HERE HAS SEEN IT. Given this, it seems reasonable to question with what
authority people are speaking. When the reaction is foul-mouthed abuse,
it doesn't encourage confidence.
If you need an example not a million miles away, there's the entire
Captain Pugwash thing. At one point, "everybody" knew the crew's names
were thinly-disguised double-entendres. But if anyone saw the show,
they'd find this was nonsense.
Ian Abbott
jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk (Jim McLennan) wrote:
>In article <-Cy*Wn...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "Wednesday" writes:
>
>> I don't see where a secondhand report of what someone watched is any
>> more authoritative.
>
>It's the only time we have heard ANYTHING from someone who has actually
>seen the French version. Got any evidence Emma Thompson has seen it?
>If not, then SHE is merely repeating hearsay, and quoting her is even
>further removed.
It would be difficult for her not to have seen some of the original
French version since as I understand it, her father worked on the
scripts for the series at home.
However, they might have had the sound turned down most of the time,
and Emma might not have known much French at the time. Both of those
seem pretty likely.
--
Ian James Abbott |*| "Konya wa 'Hurricane'!" -- Priss
i...@abbott.org |*| "Konya wa shichuu kana?" -- Mink
David Damerell
>jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk (Jim McLennan) wrote:
>>It's the only time we have heard ANYTHING from someone who has actually
>>seen the French version. Got any evidence Emma Thompson has seen it?
>French version since as I understand it, her father worked on the
>scripts for the series at home.
>However, they might have had the sound turned down most of the time,
Surely the assertion is that the sound was not just down but off? Emma
wouldn't need to know much French to confirm that.
[I await Jim's explanation of how the Orbital Mind Control Lasers were
used to shut off her hearing...]
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
Find advice on news posting style at http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html
the free and easy way to save yourself from looking like a complete idiot...
Stuart Dawson
>>It's the only time we have heard ANYTHING from someone who has actually
>>seen the French version. Got any evidence Emma Thompson has seen it?
>>If not, then SHE is merely repeating hearsay, and quoting her is even
>>further removed.
>
>It would be difficult for her not to have seen some of the original
>French version since as I understand it, her father worked on the
>scripts for the series at home.
Maybe he had his own office in the house and closed the door for a bit
of peace and quiet?
>However, they might have had the sound turned down most of the time,
>and Emma might not have known much French at the time. Both of those
>seem pretty likely.
Indeed. Heck I'm 26 and I still don't know much French (as it happens
I recently made a complaint to Leeds City Art Gallery about them
quoting a French critic on the label of one of their displays and not
providing an English translation - reminded me of my time back in
Wales so it did).
Martin D. Pay
uncounted electrons thus:
<snip>
>If you need an example not a million miles away, there's the entire
>Captain Pugwash thing. At one point, "everybody" knew the crew's names
>were thinly-disguised double-entendres. But if anyone saw the show,
>they'd find this was nonsense.
We're getting seriously OT here, but what the heck... ^_^
Speaking as someone who's got at least 15 years on most of the
posters hereabouts, I can assure you that this is in fact nearly
true. The production team did name 2 of the characters in Pugwash
'Seaman Staynes' and 'Master Bates' - but the BBC caught on and
made Oliver Postgate change them...
Martin D. Pay
No, I don't have any hard evidence - the article has long-since
gone. But it's true, nonetheless.
Fox
<marti...@excalibur.ukf.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Aug 00 20:57:18 GMT,
>jmcl...@SPAMBLOCKtrshcity.demon.co.uk (Jim McLennan) mangled
>uncounted electrons thus:
>
><snip>
>
>>If you need an example not a million miles away, there's the entire
>>Captain Pugwash thing. At one point, "everybody" knew the crew's names
>>were thinly-disguised double-entendres. But if anyone saw the show,
>>they'd find this was nonsense.
>
>We're getting seriously OT here, but what the heck... ^_^
>
>Speaking as someone who's got at least 15 years on most of the
>posters hereabouts, I can assure you that this is in fact nearly
>true. The production team did name 2 of the characters in Pugwash
>'Seaman Staynes' and 'Master Bates' - but the BBC caught on and
>made Oliver Postgate change them...
Not Oliver Postgate. I just read his autobiography and it makes no
mention of Pugwash, although the animation style used was the same as
for Ivor the Engine and Noggin the Nog. He does, however, mention the
swearing Clanger.
Fox
--
Mata baka
Harry Payne
<f...@valkyriepress.co.uk> writes
Moving further OT:
The gentleman behind Captain Pugwash is John Ryan (also known for Harris
Tweed in the `Eagle', who has made a point of suing anyone who mentions
this subject in print.
His argument, which has stood up in court, is that the names first
appeared in a student rag mag.
In my collection is a very expensive book on childrens' TV, which had to
have a sticky label added to the Pugwash page to blot out the paragraph
which mentioned the above names. Ryan has serious clout where this is
concerned.
--
Harry
"Oneir pinched a candle from the kitchens and read aloud from The Arabian
Knights, which turned out to have been a remarkably good buy. 'Unexpurgated'
seemed to mean that all sorts of interesting dirty bits had been put in."
Diana Wynne Jones "The Lives Of Christopher Chant"