Steel Cobra
Simon Challands
If the flying version ever appears it could be useful for divebombing
FDL with :-)
--
Simon Challands, creator of
The Acorn Elite Pages: http://elite.acornarcade.com/
Three Dimensional Encounters: http://www.3dfrontier.fsnet.co.uk/
Frantic
<please...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>http://www.tribbeck.com/steelcobra
>
>If the flying version ever appears it could be useful for divebombing
>FDL with :-)
What, with the printer laser he has set aside to mount on the front?
--
Frantic - GalNET Deputy Chief Administrator
The Galactic Network of Explorers and Traders.
http://www.galnet.org
NthDegree
model he's constructed is a replica of the Cobra that flew so boldly in the
original Elites. Nonetheless, we're up against that Elite vs. Real Life
dilemma. The aerodynamics of wireframe spaceships make for very short
flights indeed...
:)
Nth
"Frantic" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:g4gi4vklg0c8q3ef2...@4ax.com...
Jason Tribbeck
> This is where suspension of disbelief comes in handy. See, the wireframe
> model he's constructed is a replica of the Cobra that flew so boldly in the
> original Elites. Nonetheless, we're up against that Elite vs. Real Life
> dilemma. The aerodynamics of wireframe spaceships make for very short
> flights indeed...
Depends on how you do it - it'll mainly hover, because it'll have
interior rotor blades pushing it upwards. I've been designing it for
quite a while now, although not with the CM3 in mind, but adapting it
for that shape is possible (in fact, it's not too much of a change).
I've thrown the paper models, and they tend to spin along its width very
quickly...
--
Jason Tribbeck
http://www.tribbeck.com/ LongFiles latest version 3.00
newsm...@tribbeck.com VoiceCon latest version 0.08
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Frantic
<newsm...@tribbeck.com> wrote:
>NthDegree wrote:
>
>> This is where suspension of disbelief comes in handy. See, the wireframe
>> model he's constructed is a replica of the Cobra that flew so boldly in the
>> original Elites. Nonetheless, we're up against that Elite vs. Real Life
>> dilemma. The aerodynamics of wireframe spaceships make for very short
>> flights indeed...
>
>Depends on how you do it - it'll mainly hover, because it'll have
>interior rotor blades pushing it upwards. I've been designing it for
>quite a while now, although not with the CM3 in mind, but adapting it
>for that shape is possible (in fact, it's not too much of a change).
>
>I've thrown the paper models, and they tend to spin along its width very
>quickly...
I look forward to seeing it with panels on :)
Dan Lind
> NthDegree wrote:
>
> > This is where suspension of disbelief comes in handy. See, the wireframe
> > model he's constructed is a replica of the Cobra that flew so boldly in the
> > original Elites. Nonetheless, we're up against that Elite vs. Real Life
> > dilemma. The aerodynamics of wireframe spaceships make for very short
> > flights indeed...
>
> Depends on how you do it - it'll mainly hover, because it'll have
> interior rotor blades pushing it upwards. I've been designing it for
> quite a while now, although not with the CM3 in mind, but adapting it
> for that shape is possible (in fact, it's not too much of a change).
>
> I've thrown the paper models, and they tend to spin along its width very
> quickly...
I just found your site, very cool project! You wouldnt mind me sticking up
a link to your site from my papermodels page would you?
anyway, it reminded me I really have to add those gluing tabs to the
models... (I actually cut them out for myself when I built the models)
will be checking on your site to see what happens, good luck with the rest
of the project :)
------------------------------------------
Dan Lind
E-mail: d...@siroccostation.com
Homepage: http://www.siroccostation.com
ICQ: 74303175
------------------------------------------
Nagy Daniel
On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Jason Tribbeck wrote:
> NthDegree wrote:
>
> > This is where suspension of disbelief comes in handy. See, the wireframe
> > model he's constructed is a replica of the Cobra that flew so boldly in the
> > original Elites. Nonetheless, we're up against that Elite vs. Real Life
> > dilemma. The aerodynamics of wireframe spaceships make for very short
> > flights indeed...
>
> Depends on how you do it - it'll mainly hover, because it'll have
> interior rotor blades pushing it upwards. I've been designing it for
> quite a while now, although not with the CM3 in mind, but adapting it
> for that shape is possible (in fact, it's not too much of a change).
>
> I've thrown the paper models, and they tend to spin along its width very
> quickly...
Here are my experimental results of assessing the capabilites of the
Corbra Mk3 airframe:
The paper model, with its center of gravity left where it is is capable of
stable gliding, upside down, "enginges" forward. The angle of gliding is
appox. 20 degrees (0 being vertical fall). The glide is statically stable,
but not very much so; Even gentle nudges on the start will get it into a
spin.
With shifting the center of gravity to the front, you can make the
airframe capable of a stable glide forward, at angles up to 70-75 degrees
(you'll have to find the right spot, though -- I can't find my records on
that). Still upside down. This mode is surprisingly stable: considering
that there are no vertical stabilizers, its straight flightpath is quite a
surprise. It doesn't have a tendency to stall or spin, and if you nudge it
a bit, the rocking will eventually abate. Cool!
I was not able to get it flying upside up. I suspect that for low speeds
the lift is not enough for keeping it stable that way, while at higher
speeds the turbulent flow will inevitably turn it over (that's what
happens most of the time).
I know that supersonic speeds are very different, and I don't even know
the basics of supersonic aerodynamics, let alone having any means to test
it. So I don't know how the airframe performs at supersonic speeds (I
would guess, that the turbulence at the back would simply tear it apart
:-).
Conclusion: the wheels in Frontier are depicted on the wrong side of the
Cobra Mk3 :-)
--
Daniel
Frantic
wrote:
The Asp has been turned upside down between versions.
What about gyros?
Nagy Daniel
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Frantic wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:23:37 +0100, Nagy Daniel <nagy...@cs.bme.hu>
> >Conclusion: the wheels in Frontier are depicted on the wrong side of the
> >Cobra Mk3 :-)
>
> The Asp has been turned upside down between versions.
>
> What about gyros?
Using computer-controlled active stabilizing, you can stabilize pretty
much everything. Look at F-117! :-)
--
Daniel
John Mackay
> The Asp has been turned upside down between versions.
>
John M
Jason Tribbeck
> I just found your site, very cool project! You wouldnt mind me sticking up
> a link to your site from my papermodels page would you?
I don't mind in the slightest!
> will be checking on your site to see what happens, good luck with the rest
> of the project :)
Many thanks!
Frantic
wrote:
>
>> The Asp has been turned upside down between versions.
>>
>I'm pretty sure the Moray has been several different ways up, hasn't it?
>
>John M
>
The moray got switched back to front.
Frantic
wrote:
Yeah but gyros make a cool whine as they start up and shut down.
Simon Challands
Frantic <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:36:01 -0000, "John Mackay" <n...@email.thanks>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >> The Asp has been turned upside down between versions.
> >>
> >I'm pretty sure the Moray has been several different ways up, hasn't it?
> >
> >John M
> >
>
> The moray got switched back to front.
The Asp is stored in the sources the other way around to normally
portrayed, although since there's no way of telling in game which is the
top and bottom, and the BBC manual had it the other way up, that's how
it's normally viewed.
Frantic
<please...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In message <qibl4vsss447e3vif...@4ax.com>
> Frantic <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:36:01 -0000, "John Mackay" <n...@email.thanks>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> The Asp has been turned upside down between versions.
>> >>
>> >I'm pretty sure the Moray has been several different ways up, hasn't it?
>> >
>> >John M
>> >
>>
>> The moray got switched back to front.
>
>The Asp is stored in the sources the other way around to normally
>portrayed, although since there's no way of telling in game which is the
>top and bottom, and the BBC manual had it the other way up, that's how
>it's normally viewed.
In _real_ versions of Elite you got to see the ships parked as you
came in to land in the docking tunnel. There it was obvious what was
the "right" way up. Those little docking sequences I found lacking in
other versions, surprisingly Arc Elite also.
Dylan Smith
>original Elites. Nonetheless, we're up against that Elite vs. Real Life
>dilemma. The aerodynamics of wireframe spaceships make for very short
>flights indeed...
Ahhh baloney. Enough thrust and anything is possible. Even the F104
Starfighter could fly with those stubby wings!
--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"
Simon Challands
Frantic <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:55:17 GMT, Simon Challands
> <please...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >The Asp is stored in the sources the other way around to normally
> >portrayed, although since there's no way of telling in game which is the
> >top and bottom, and the BBC manual had it the other way up, that's how
> >it's normally viewed.
>
> In _real_ versions of Elite you got to see the ships parked as you
> came in to land in the docking tunnel. There it was obvious what was
> the "right" way up. Those little docking sequences I found lacking in
> other versions, surprisingly Arc Elite also.
Real versions of Elite, as in the original and best? You got those views
with the BBC disc version, but the Asp wasn't one of the ships that
appeared in it. I thought you knew better than to question what's a real
Elite.
Frantic
<please...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In message <r6fl4vgoqil9cerqo...@4ax.com>
> Frantic <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:55:17 GMT, Simon Challands
>> <please...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >The Asp is stored in the sources the other way around to normally
>> >portrayed, although since there's no way of telling in game which is the
>> >top and bottom, and the BBC manual had it the other way up, that's how
>> >it's normally viewed.
>>
>> In _real_ versions of Elite you got to see the ships parked as you
>> came in to land in the docking tunnel. There it was obvious what was
>> the "right" way up. Those little docking sequences I found lacking in
>> other versions, surprisingly Arc Elite also.
>
>Real versions of Elite, as in the original and best? You got those views
>with the BBC disc version, but the Asp wasn't one of the ships that
>appeared in it. I thought you knew better than to question what's a real
>Elite.
The best parts of Elite are spread across several versions. I do miss
a decent docking tunnel and hyperspace sequence when playing Arc
Elite.
A real Elite for me is anything that retains the core of Elite, but
has some good improvements. Arc and Amiga do it for me.
May have another look at Novobirsk Elite. Last time I played with it
it crashed by the second.
Nagy Daniel
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Frantic wrote:
> In _real_ versions of Elite you got to see the ships parked as you
> came in to land in the docking tunnel. There it was obvious what was
> the "right" way up. Those little docking sequences I found lacking in
> other versions, surprisingly Arc Elite also.
AFAIK, this was only the case with m68k ELITEs (Amiga and Atari), while
_real_ refers to 8bit implementations (with me, anyway). Actually, I found
it quite funny that no matter how you docked, the other docked ships were
always below you. I didn't particularly like that effect, as the number
and the capacity of the parked ships was in no way correlated to the goods
available on the stockmarket and the ships you saw exiting the station. It
was one of the cases of putting detail in the wrong place which went
rampant in FE2 and FFE. IMHO, of course.
--
Daniel
Nagy Daniel
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Simon Challands wrote:
> > In _real_ versions of Elite you got to see the ships parked as you
> > came in to land in the docking tunnel. There it was obvious what was
> > the "right" way up. Those little docking sequences I found lacking in
> > other versions, surprisingly Arc Elite also.
>
> Real versions of Elite, as in the original and best? You got those views
> with the BBC disc version, but the Asp wasn't one of the ships that
> appeared in it. I thought you knew better than to question what's a real
> Elite.
You got the parked ships on BBC/Disc? Wow. I didn't know the disc version
differed that much from the vanilla BBC Elite.
--
Daniel
The Doctor
Nagy Daniel <nagy...@cs.bme.hu> wrote:
The BBC Disc version was the proper version of Elite. The tape version
was a very cut down version of this. Barely more than a taster IMO.
Cheers!
--
Graham
The RISC OS software site - www.thedeathzone.free-online.co.uk/software
The RISC OS hardware guide - www.thedeathzone.free-online.co.uk/hardware
Deathzone Emulation - www.thedeathzone.free-online.co.uk/emulation
The Main Control Room - www.thedeathzone.free-online.co.uk
Simon Challands
The Doctor <thed...@thedeathzone.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <Pine.LNX.4.44.03021...@sziami.cs.bme.hu>
> Nagy Daniel <nagy...@cs.bme.hu> wrote:
>
> > You got the parked ships on BBC/Disc? Wow. I didn't know the disc version
> > differed that much from the vanilla BBC Elite.
> >
> The BBC Disc version was the proper version of Elite. The tape version
> was a very cut down version of this. Barely more than a taster IMO.
Yes, BBC disc Elite was the definitive version, and I believe was
designed like that (i.e. the tape version was cut down from it). The
tape version had an instand dock docking computer, no docked ships, no
missions, no planet notes (of the "vast rain forests" type; the ordinary
planet info was there), and the tedium of loading off cassette. The disc
version could load things in-game, hence different ship sets (you never
got more ships than the tape version at one particular planet), and
different things in memory between docked and flying.
Here's a docked screenshot (scanner colour wrong. I never got around to
getting updates to 6502Em):
http://elite.acornarcade.com/ims/docked.gif
NthDegree
looks extremely hoopy. Actually, kinda makes me jealous, wishing I had some
decent welding tools and a cutting torch...
NthDegree
"Jason Tribbeck" <newsm...@tribbeck.com> wrote in message
news:3e4aa859$0$20788$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Jason Tribbeck
> I was just being my usual smart-assed self in my last post. Your model
Must've missed that...
> looks extremely hoopy. Actually, kinda makes me jealous, wishing I had some
Thanks. This weekend's job is undercarriage.
> decent welding tools and a cutting torch...
Cutting torch?!??! I used a hacksaw on the first day, and angle grinder
on the second. I'd love to get a plasma cutter, but they're a little out
of my price range...
Acetelyne has always worried me - I've heard that if you hit the bottle
with a hammer, then you can get an explosion a few days later. They also
tend to sell it only to companies (although I do have a trade account
with a gas supplier).
Jason Tribbeck
> The fundamental triangle of fire suggests that it is unlikely. You would
> require an ignition source which you could potentially provide with the
> hammer in the first instance if you happened to puncture the cannister
From memory, the acetelyne gets excited, and over the course of time,
it gets hotter and hotter, and then explodes due to pressure increase -
not due to flame.
> Acetylene may not be the safest compound on the planet, but if you are
> likely to hit an Acetylene cannister with a hammer, then you should not
> have one. Even without a warning that accompanies the cannister, common
Although I don't tend to swing hammers around, it's more a case of if I
accidentally knock it, say to move it to a safe location.
Anyway, I'm in no rush to use a cutting torch - Mr. Angle Grinder's good
enough for me ;-)
NthDegree
> NthDegree wrote:
> > I was just being my usual smart-assed self in my last post. Your model
>
> Must've missed that...
>
> > looks extremely hoopy. Actually, kinda makes me jealous, wishing I had
some
>
> Thanks. This weekend's job is undercarriage.
>
> > decent welding tools and a cutting torch...
>
> Cutting torch?!??! I used a hacksaw on the first day, and angle grinder
> on the second. I'd love to get a plasma cutter, but they're a little out
> of my price range...
>
I believe, if you've planned far enough ahead, that a tool rental outfit
will rent one a portable oxy-acetylene torch for around $35.
> Acetelyne has always worried me - I've heard that if you hit the bottle
> with a hammer, then you can get an explosion a few days later.
I've heard that as well. Don't hit the bottle with a hammer. Don't allow
others to hit the bottle with a hammer, either.