U.N. Probes Gun Enthusiasts' Protest
Denny Church
Denny
http://www.newsday.com/ap/text/national/ap859.htm
AP National
U.N. Probes Gun Enthusiasts' Protest
by EDITH M. LEDERER
Associated Press Writer
UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- The United Nations is investigating
whether irate letters and e-mails it has received from American gun
enthusiasts protesting an upcoming conference on the illicit trade
in small arms constitutes a security threat.
The world body has received about 100 complaints from Americans
who erroneously believe the conference seeks to infringe on their
right to bear arms, U.N. Undersecretary-General for Disarmament
Jayantha Dhanapala said Thursday.
The gun-rights enthusiasts did not threaten physical harm to any
U.N. official but their protests were strongly worded and were
turned over to U.N. security experts, Dhanapala said.
''What concerned me was that there was a widespread campaign,''
he said. ''It's essentially a U.S.-based phenomenon.''
The letters and e-mails started arriving in recent weeks, some
signed and some anonymous, alleging that the U.N. is attempting to
take away guns from people, in conflict with the constitutional
rights of U.S. citizens, Dhanapala told a news conference.
''I did not get the impression that they have been orchestrated.
They are differently worded, but clearly they all labor under the
same misapprehension about the conference,'' he said.
Dhanapala's office released a pamphlet called ''Setting the
Record Straight'' to address the misconceptions they contained and
explain what the conference hopes to achieve.
''The focus of the conference is on illicit trade in small arms,
not the legal trade, manufacture or ownership of weapons,'' the
pamphlet stressed. ''The U.N. conference will have no effect on the
rights of civilians to legally own and bear arms.''
Delegates are expected to adopt a program of action, which is
not legally binding, to curb and ultimately eliminate illegal
trafficking in assault rifles and other small arms and light
weapons that have become the weapons of choice in many internal
conflicts around the world.
About a dozen gun-rights groups, including the U.S. National
Rifle Association, are among the 177 non-governmental organizations
accredited to attend the two-week conference which begins Monday.
Dhanapala said these groups will be able to attend all public
meetings and will choose several representatives to make statements
at one official conference session.
U.N. conventional arms expert Joao Honwana, a top conference
official, said it wasn't up to the U.N. Department for Disarmament
Affairs to judge whether the e-mails and letters constituted a
threat.
''The objective of turning these e-mail and communications to
the U.N. security was precisely to allow them to assess them from a
perspective of threat to the organization of the conference and
take whatever necessary measures they found appropriate, which is
what they are doing,'' he said.
''They analyze those communications, and I'm sure that they will
contact with the appropriate institutions in this country and
elsewhere to make sure that whatever is said in those e-mails does
not represent a major threat to the organization of this
conference,'' Honwana said.
AP-NY-07-05-01 1534ED
Joel Jacobs
> Hmm, maybe there ought to be a "orchestrated" effort...
>
> Denny
>
> http://www.newsday.com/ap/text/national/ap859.htm
>
> AP National
> U.N. Probes Gun Enthusiasts' Protest
> by EDITH M. LEDERER
> Associated Press Writer
>
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- The United Nations is investigating
> whether irate letters and e-mails it has received from American gun
> enthusiasts protesting an upcoming conference on the illicit trade
> in small arms constitutes a security threat.
>
> The world body has received about 100 complaints from Americans
> who erroneously believe the conference seeks to infringe on their
> right to bear arms, U.N. Undersecretary-General for Disarmament
> Jayantha Dhanapala said Thursday.
<snip>
Denny,
Must you see monsters lurking under every bed? Even Stephen King knows that
monsters do not lurk under EVERY bed. And none lurk under this bed....
Joel
Paul Barnett
jja...@koyote.com says...
> Must you see monsters lurking under every bed? Even Stephen King knows that
> monsters do not lurk under EVERY bed. And none lurk under this bed....
Someone should explain the same concept to Dhanapala and Honwana.
THEY are the ones that are concerned that a group (organized or
otherwise) of US citizens expressing their political opinions may
constitute a potential security threat.
The article does not describe their nationality, but I'll guess their
home countries do not have an equivalent of the First Amendment.
Maurice
Paul Barnett wrote:
> Someone should explain the same concept to Dhanapala and Honwana.
>
> THEY are the ones that are concerned that a group (organized or
> otherwise) of US citizens expressing their political opinions may
> constitute a potential security threat.
>
> The article does not describe their nationality, but I'll guess their
> home countries do not have an equivalent of the First Amendment.
================
OR, FOR CERTAIN... the SECOND! Right on, guys!!
And, I'll bet the guy reeks of curry. (never fear, it is great with shrimp over
rice, but not walking around calling US a threat to security).
Please, just WHO is a threat to WHOM???
maurice
==========================
Denny Church
wrote:
Joel you must really think I have one heck of an imagination!
One hundred E-mails this UN boy receives and HE is afraid of a
possible "security threat"?
Tell you what Joel, me an a friend of mine are seriously thinking of
sending a gift to them. It can be seen at:
http://www.comeandtakeit.com/histricl.html#1
Scroll down to the:
Double Sided Come and Take It Flags: Duo-Print
We want at least 56 signatures, so my question to you is:
Care to sign with us?
Denny
Joel Jacobs
"Paul Barnett" <ne...@ptb.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.15aee4bce...@news.directlink.net...
Okay, fine - the Boogie Man exists, and the Tooth Fairy, and the.....
Joel Jacobs
Gray Ghost
couldn't find anyplace.
Bookmarked the site, though. Will probably buy some flags.
Keep 'em flying!
Frank
[posted and mailed]
Denny Church <alm...@almaco.vt.com> wrote in
news:avdakt4eo6ufvbg99...@4ax.com:
--
No quarter asked, no quarter given.
Frank
Warning - all emails that are sent to me in response to postings on this
newsgroup that are harrassing or hostile in nature or are contrary to
public postings or assertions by senders are subject to public postings to
refute senders claims otherwise.
Ragnar Danneksjold
atl3.usenetserver.com>:
>Okay, fine - the Boogie Man exists, and the Tooth Fairy, and the.....
...senators from New York, California and Massechusetts, UN Beaurocrats,
Sarah Brady...
Stephan Rothstein
I will. I will also kick in the extra $30 to send them the Gadsden Flag,
if you want. While I like the "Come and Take It", the Gadsden expresses
my ideas (Leave me alone or get bitten) better, I think.
Tell me where to send the money.
Steve Rothstein
Denny Church
Great Stephan, I will let you knwo before the end of the day.
Denny
Joel Jacobs
Denny, Steve,
I know that you guys are truly sincere in your beliefs that UN wants to take
your guns - and mine - and the guy's next door, and the guy's in Kansas, and
the woman's in.....but that's just not the case.
Now, I know for a fact, from reading posts from both you guys on this forum,
that you are intelligent and articulate. But you two do seem to possess an
inordinate bit of a knee-jerk when you read _anything_ that even appears to
_maybe_ speak of firearms confiscation that might somehow, someway, some day
spread over to the United States of America.
If you have not done so, go into the UN pages and read about the proposals
regarding MILITARY small arms and the elimination, confiscation, and
destruction of same in Third World Countries. Perhaps, if you couple that
with the knowledge of the wars, civil wars, and genocide taking place on at
least three continents you might begin to understand the why behind these
proposals.
I don't know if either of you guys have ever witnessed genocide, civil war,
and flat-out war first hand, but many of us on this group have. I have seen
genocide, war, civil war and civil unrest on three continents, and I can
well understand why groups within the UN has proposed to remove small arms
from so many Third World Countries. So, no, I won't sign your petition, I
won't ship a flag, and I won't contribute money to this particular cause,
for it's the wrong one.
Joel
Gray Ghost
Methinks Joel has been duped into becoming a UN-American.
John A. Stovall
wrote:
snipped
>Now, I know for a fact, from reading posts from both you guys on this forum,
>that you are intelligent and articulate. But you two do seem to possess an
>inordinate bit of a knee-jerk when you read _anything_ that even appears to
>_maybe_ speak of firearms confiscation that might somehow, someway, some day
>spread over to the United States of America.
>
>If you have not done so, go into the UN pages and read about the proposals
>regarding MILITARY small arms and the elimination, confiscation, and
>destruction of same in Third World Countries. Perhaps, if you couple that
>with the knowledge of the wars, civil wars, and genocide taking place on at
>least three continents you might begin to understand the why behind these
>proposals.
>
>I don't know if either of you guys have ever witnessed genocide, civil war,
>and flat-out war first hand, but many of us on this group have. I have seen
>genocide, war, civil war and civil unrest on three continents, and I can
>well understand why groups within the UN has proposed to remove small arms
>from so many Third World Countries. So, no, I won't sign your petition, I
>won't ship a flag, and I won't contribute money to this particular cause,
>for it's the wrong one.
But, Joel consider the converse what if in removing those guns you
have prevented in just one case removing those small arms a people
from then, their ousting an oppressive rulers. Then isn't their
oppression and blood on your hands and the hands of the UN.
I see this UN action as simply an employment guarantee for exiting
tyrants and dictators. It does nothing to extend the blessings of
Freedom and Liberty.
*****************************************************
The last temptation is the greatest treason:
To do the right deed for the wrong reason.
"Murder in the Catheral"
T.S. Eliot
Denny Church
wrote:
>> > >> Hmm, maybe there ought to be a "orchestrated" effort...
Joel,
I did not think you would.
I realize that the UN wanted it both ways from the begining:
UN Charter
Article 2
Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United
Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the
domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to
submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this
principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures
under Chapter Vll.
(In other words, we will not respect anything or anyone if we disagree
and intefere with you no matter what if we choose to do so
irrespective of what claptrap we just wrote.)
CHAPTER VII
ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE,
AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION
The Security Council shall determine the existence of any threat to
the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression and shall make
recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance
with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace
and security.
(In other words, we know what is best for you. Your stupid reach for
liberty is nonsensical and you shall do what we say. Understand
Serfs!)
And after reading many of your posts over the years, I have come to
the conclusion that you "sort-of" agree with this
As for genocide taking place on three continents, I cannot think of
anything better than for those getting killed to have inexpensive
reliable small arms with which to defend themselves. (It's not like
civil wars are fought with machetees, is it?)
But hey take them away and their "elected leaders for life" will
protect them, won't they? It is not like governments have killed the
most over the years now, is it? Self-determination is something that
just shouldn't get out of hand now, should it?
Oh, and as for Stephan having knee-jerk reactions, I never have had
that impression. But then again, didn't Barry Goldwater say something
about this? I think his quote is:
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no
vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of
justice is no virtue!"
So Joel, care to re-think your position?
Denny
John A. Stovall
<alm...@almaco.vt.com> wrote:
snipped
>
>http://www.comeandtakeit.com/histricl.html#1
>
Why the Gonzales Flag is important and it history:
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/FF/msf2.html
Randy Howard
says...
> Someone should explain the same concept to Dhanapala and Honwana.
>
> THEY are the ones that are concerned that a group (organized or
> otherwise) of US citizens expressing their political opinions may
> constitute a potential security threat.
I doubt that is really true. It does make for a good mudslinging
campaign about how "evil" US firearms owners are. The reality of
it can't be that they are actually worried. After all, we can't
have it both ways. Either we can be trusted with firearms as
law-abiding people, or we cannot. If they need to be afraid of
us, then we must be in the latter category. The whole thing is
a media event, in which gunowners come out looking like thugs.
The UN is not worried about 100 letters from the 100 million
owners. Ridiculous.
John A. Stovall
wrote:
The real concern of the UN should be all the old Comblock weapons now
going on the market. SADW recently reported that Rumania was putting
on the market AKM-74's for US$37.50 each. That's right thirty-seven
dollars and fifty cent each for a true assault rifle. Sure they'll
have end user certificates for some where but will they get there and
will the UN care?
*****************************************************
Browning, Browning...
On appuie là, et qu'est-ce qui sort
Par le p'tit trou? Madame la Mort.
"Browning"
Edith Piaf
Denny Church
I'll take ten!
Denny
Hdlinnebur
Thanks for the flag url. If you have a particular office of the UN in mind to
send one to please post it.
Thanks
JWheeler
Joel Jacobs <jja...@koyote.com> wrote in message
news:nWa17.4453$i8.5...@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com...
>
> Okay, fine - the Boogie Man exists, and the Tooth Fairy, and the.....
>
> Joel Jacobs
>
>
>
>
Ok... maybe you need to get your head out and look around. With a title
like the 'U.N. Undersecretary-General for Disarmament', how long do you
think it is going to take them (once they get rid of all the illicit...
small arms and ssault rifles and other small arms and light weapons) to get
around to the rest of us? I mean if you had a meal-ticket job like this
guy, would you stop once you got rid of all the 'illegal' guns? Heck no!
You'd do what you could to make more weapons illegal. Call it job security.
If you really don't think it can happen, you just stay there with your head
up your butt so you won't notice when they come knocking on your door.
JWheeler
Joel Jacobs
news:3b47d065$1...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
Wheeler, you ever been witness to genocide? Ever been in a war? Seen a civil
war? Religious war?
Ever see hundreds of thousands of people starving because of war? Famine?
Greed?
The UN's confiscation of firearms in Africa has not one whit to do with our
Second Amendment rights. We're talking about the systematic murder of
millions of people - but, what the hell, it's 9000 miles from Texas to
Africa... hardly a problem here, right?
...I feel that John Donne summed it up pretty well when he wrote:
...no man is an island, entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less,
as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's
or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me,
for I am involved in mankind,
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee.
John Donne (1572-1631)
Joel
Jeffrey C. Dege
>
>Wheeler, you ever been witness to genocide? Ever been in a war? Seen a civil
>war? Religious war?
>Ever see hundreds of thousands of people starving because of war? Famine?
>Greed?
>The UN's confiscation of firearms in Africa has not one whit to do with our
>Second Amendment rights. We're talking about the systematic murder of
>millions of people - but, what the hell, it's 9000 miles from Texas to
>Africa... hardly a problem here, right?
Actually, the UN's small-arms program wasn't intended to deal with
legally-owned civilian arms, in the US, or anywhere else. But their
efforts to take guns away from various insurgents and rebels in Africa
have proven so completely a failure, that they need to do something else,
or give up their cushy jobs.
They see supporting gun control efforts in the US and those other
countries where the IRKBA is only partially infringed as being something
that they can actually accomplish, that will bring them a great deal
of money from the usual gun-control elites, and will convince the UN
bureaucracy that they are actually doing good work, instead of throwing
money down a hole.
That their efforts clearly aren't going to help with the African
insurgencies isn't even an issue.
--
It is almost always incorrect to begin the decomposition of a system
into modules on the basis of a flowchart. We propose instead that one
begins with a list of difficult design decisions or design decisions
which are likely to change. Each module is then designed to hide such
a decision from the others.
-- David Parnas
JWheeler
My point is that you were mocking the previous post by saying "the boogeyman
and the tooth-fairie". I was under the impression that you think it can't
happen here. If I was in error, I offer my most humble appoligies. I still
don't think that once the UN gets rid of all the 'bad' guns in the world
that they plan on stopping, and that has EVERYTHING to do with our Second
Amendment rights. If they do stop, that pretty well puts them out of a job.
Do you really see that happening?
JWheeler
Hdlinnebur
What he did not witness is the despot governments behind the death and carnage.
What he did not witness is the covert ops that may have taken place to help
bring about these little wars.
What he has not witnessed is that the very kind of people who created the UN
later went on to support people like Pol Pot. People like Tom Hayden, Fonda, or
Clinton's initial pick to head the CIA, Anthony Lake. Or how about another Pol
Pot supporter like Hillary's "politics of meaning" guru, Michael Lerner.
Wipe the tears away Joel and grow up.
Make....@feinstain.lesbian.hunting.facility.edu
If only.
lol!
On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:45:00 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" <jja...@koyote.com> wrote:
--------------------
On August 19, 1991, after a traffic accident in which a black child was
killed by a car carrying a Jewish leader, a black mob rioted down a street
in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn, shouting "Let’s go get the Jews."
A Jewish scholar visiting New York named Yankel Rosenbaum was stabbed to
death when they encountered him on the street. Within minutes police arrived
and apprehended Lemrick Nelson, Jr. at the scene with a bloody knife in his
pocket. He was taken to the dying Rosenbaum, who identified Nelson as his
attacker. Nelson later admitted the crime to two Brooklyn detectives, and
signed a written confession. Prosecutors presented this evidence to a
predominantly black jury. They refused to convict Nelson. After the
acquittal, jurors celebrated with Nelson at a local restaurant. (Nelson
later moved to Georgia and was convicted of slashing a schoolmate.)