FREEHAND 10 IS A JOKE - SERIOUSLY
PO'd PREPRESS
This is the lamest joke ever - this is worse than any nighmare Quark could conjour up.
Macromedia is NOT interested in releasing a product that actually works in the print industry - they are interested in selling a product with enough bells and whistles that even the most basic designer just pushes a button - and an entire workflow BREAKS!!!
Just loging on to this site WAS A JOKE.
I am running a Dual 867w/Jaguar and Safari, NOPE!! Not supported.
Okay, login with IE 5.2 - I STILL had to download some friggen flash updates just so I could post here.
Soooo, WE ABSOLUTELY TO BE ON THE BLEEDING EDGE OF TECHNOLOGY JUST TO POST HERE!!!???
Well, I was on the bleeding edge until I got here.
Macromedia - do yourself, myself, and the ENTIRE PRINT INDUSTRY a favor - and STOP selling products that someone may actually confuse as *print* graphics software, because quite frankly your software does not work with PRINT.
Stick with the web stuff.
JediKnight2
JediKnight2
"PO'd PREPRESS" <webfor...@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:b4df91$rir$1...@forums.macromedia.com...
fat mike
faithfully used Freehand 10 between upgrades from 9 to MX with only a few
problems. There were some problems but for our uses it was a very effective
tool. But, like all software, it is a specific tool for a specific use.
Using Freehand when Quark is more appropriate is like using toothpaste to
paint your car. I've got an idea to solve your dilemma though. See where
your computer is plugged into the wall? Yeah, that's it...unplug it, get
your money back, and buy a monkey, because computer just don't sound like
your thing.
-fatmike
PO'd PREPRESS
Soo, fat mike - what is the magic combination of exporting from FH?
I live in an environment that requires PDF or EPS files.
As far as I can tell, gettting either/or PDF/EPS is a laughing matter - not even close.
and um, chan - someone is FORCING me to use Fh 10- are you familiar with the term -
CLIENTS!!
fat mike
and as for EPS files...I can't say I've had problems exporting them...it's
when I import/open them from another application. For exporting, embed
appropriate images and convert all text to minimize any errors. Also, it is
wise to try your EPS in another program (like AI) to make sure everything is
just dandy. Out of curiosity, why would you need both PDF and EPS?
"PO'd PREPRESS" <webfor...@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:b4ettt$k5f$1...@forums.macromedia.com...
Lex vd Oudeweetering
that's not a joke, i'm not laughing.
I would like to use PDF export, to be possible to have a multipage export.
It would be fantastic if it worked.
As far as I can see embedding fonts does not work.
Openening it in PDF-reader says it can't take out the font(Do not know if
that's the correct term is - it's my literal translation from Dutch >
English)
Only produces the fonts that are installed or if I have
Fontlister(Fontmanager) opened on one of my other Font folders.
--
Lex van de Oudeweetering - illustrator BNO
Koning Nobelpad 7 - 3813 KJ Amersfoort
Tel: +31 (0)33 4779971
Bgg/If not answered try +31 (0)33 4779973
Email - lex.ill...@planet.nl
Find examples of my work at:
http://home.planet.nl/~lex-illustrator
Easier to remember is: ( But you get a .tk pop-up)
http://www.lex-illustrator.tk
Find me and other dutch illustrators at:
http://www.dutch-illustration.com
"fat mike" <pi...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:b4flec$g53$1...@forums.macromedia.com...
Bill Schuhle
bliss - right now I DO export to .ai 7, and proceed to rebuild the file
there - any placed images or any masks seem to have those masks just
dissapear. I havent tried embedding those images at this point - when I get
back to the shop I will try that.
_____________________________
Seems I remember someone here saying that either cutting and pasting
gradient objects from FH into AI ...or... simply opening the FH file from
within AI (you might have to save back a few versions, say as FH 8) will
preserve the gradient fills and not create bands of separate objects.
Corrections/additions welcome.
Bill Schuhle
Rich Hudgins
in the Document Inspector. By default it is set to 300 DPI, set it to
2540 for maximum number of steps in your gradients.
Rich
"PO'd PREPRESS" webfor...@macromedia.com wrote:
> fat mike - I too work in a high volume screen printing place - we do banners in excess of 20' - 4 color process.
>
> We have now gone into the digital press rhealm - a wide format inkjet to do the lower quantity jobs - the proprietary rip S/W that ships with said device requires either PDF, EPS, or Tiff.
>
> Exporting to tiff from FH actually works. But what's the point of a vector app - if I have to rasterize a 20' banner?
>
> I've tried every flavor of PDF and EPS that I can think of...exporting, printing to .ps, printing to .pdf, distilling, ect...
>
> Gradients across a 20' area - once exported in any of the flavors results in the gradient being split into segments - not gonna work, whether going to the digital, or getting burned to screen.
Brian Pylant
>
> I am running a Dual 867w/Jaguar and Safari, NOPE!! Not supported.
>
> Okay, login with IE 5.2 - I STILL had to download some friggen flash
> updates just so I could post here.
>
> Soooo, WE ABSOLUTELY TO BE ON THE BLEEDING EDGE OF TECHNOLOGY JUST TO
> POST HERE!!!???
Nope... just use a regular newsrader instead of the web forums. You'll
have a much better user experience, trust me!
PO'd PREPRESS
3 machines now that I've posted on where I've had to run some update or another just to access this site - these are fairly new machines, running the newest OS possible. Besides, I thought I HAD flash 6 2 months ago!
Anyways, someone on the Illustrator forums suggested (as has been suggested here) to print to PDF, using the Adobe driver. I've also embedded the image. There is no live type - everything has been converted to outlines.
No luck. Results in a 12kb file(for a 120"x 39" banner with an embedded 20mbtiff). What's worse, the print dialog defaults to my RIP's PPD, there is no way to assign the Adobe PPD once I've export to PDF.
Printing .ps results in a 7.5mb file, but distiller chokes with a "%%[ Error: Times-Roman not found. Font cannot be embedded. ]%%
%%[ Error: invalidfont; OffendingCommand: findfont ]%%"
Again, there IS no live type - separation/page info is turned OFF in the output options, yet Freehand still seems to be sending font info to the .ps file.
Brian Pylant
> Email programs for one thing: EMAIL
Um, I didn't say email, I said newsreader. Contrary to what MS
would have you think, Outlook is not a newsreader.
I'm just offering some advice for you to help you better use the forums.
Take it how you like, or ignore it completely. Just don't bitch about
it if you're unwilling to try a proven better method.
Brian
darrel
> your money back, and buy a monkey, because computer just don't sound like
> your thing.
Fat Mike:
Contrary to popular belief, just because you have a piece of software
working, does not mean the rest of the world does as well.
That doesn't mean there aren't things that PO'd could have done, but that
doesn't change the fact that FH10 isn't taht great of a product.
A lot of people have had problems with FH10. Telling them to buy a monkey is
ignorance on your part.
-Darrel
darrel
> it if you're unwilling to try a proven better method.
Umm...or maybe should actually think of it's user's once in a while and get
a web interface that works?
-Darrel
fat mike
Thomas J. Unger
Newsgroups are proven (predate the web), and offer simple threaded text
only communication - the mark-up forum is meant to be a "flashier"
alternative... -Tom Unger
darrel
Hmm...good point.
Brian Pylant
> rather have a monkey than CD.
CorelDRAW is a helluva a lot better than it used to be; I have
absolutely no problems outputting any job to film or plate, and haven't
for years (since v6 or 7).
Brian
Rich Hudgins
Did you read my post about gradients?:
The banding is caused by keeping the default Printer Resolution setting
in the Document Inspector. By default it is set to 300 DPI, set it to
2540 for maximum number of steps in your gradients.
Rich
"PO'd PREPRESS" webfor...@macromedia.com wrote:
> So I've heard others here and abroad who suggest to try to export as an older version of Freehand, then open in Illustrator.
>
> OK, so what's the trick with that?
>
> So far, files saved as FH 8,7,5 result in Illustrator 'not recognizing the file type', both with attempting to open and place.
>
> AI 9.0.2.
>
>
>
Rich Hudgins
have AI 9 around, although I do have 8 and 10. AI 8 would not open
either the FH8 or FH7 files I created even though in the error message
it gave me it said it supported those versions of FH. AI 10 was able to
open both with editable gradients.
Rich
Odysseus
>
> CorelDRAW is a helluva a lot better than it used to be; I have
> absolutely no problems outputting any job to film or plate, and haven't
> for years (since v6 or 7).
>
experience differs considerably from yours in the second part. OTOH
there are very few output problems I haven't been able to solve --
eventually -- either by rasterizing recalcitrant portions of a
document, or exporting to EPS and printing from Quark XPress -- or
both. In general (as of v10) I find that Draw's typographic and
spot-colour capabilities are markedly inferior to its competition.
--Odysseus
William G. Dalzell
go to the document inspector in FH10, and down at the bottom where it
says printer resolution, change to 2540. This supposedly gets rid of the
gradient lines in the AI file and may help your PDFs too.
Personally I output most of my work as PDF (using distiller) and send to
many different publications on both major platforms without problems.
I'm still using OS9.2 as I have too much unsupported hardware and
software attached to my machine to switch to OSX yet.
William G. Dalzell
an AI file exported by FH10. Maybe you can just export the file as FH9
or 8 and use the older version of FH to do the output.
"PO'd PREPRESS" webfor...@macromedia.com wrote:
Rich Hudgins
Printer Resolution in the FH Document Inspector to 2540 and then
exporting to EPS or AI?
Rich
"PO'd PREPRESS" webfor...@macromedia.com wrote:
> Any export to PDF that I've tried results in any placed CMYK tiffs turing greyscale - objects are missing, changed ect...
>
> Any export to older version of FH (I've tried them all numerous times now) results in AI (9.0.2) just simply not recognizing the file type. With 'all documents' selected in the open box, AI can SEE the file, but once I try to open they ALL come up with an error message.
>
>
>
Rich Hudgins
shifting is caused by using TIFFs with clipping paths instead of EPSs.
What are you using?
Rich
"PO'd PREPRESS" webfor...@macromedia.com wrote:
> Yes I am listening but crap gradients are only a small part of the problems.
>
> Raster image's paths get ignored, images shift or are gone completely, strokes are doing some *strange* things, images are getting converted to greyscale, ect...
>
> I downloaded the AI 10 demo - it does a great job of opening FH 8 files, and the gradient is still editable(read: not spliced up). The only problem is AI isnt seeing the masks, or some the images altogether.
>
>
>
Danny Whitehead
webfor...@macromedia.com wrote on 13/3/03 10:48 pm:
> The files, as they are supplied by the client, have both placed EPS and TIFF
> files.
But which are causing problems?
> So there's issues of using Tiffs in FH? Are EPS's supposed to be used instead?
Yes, there are issues with using clipping paths embedded in imported TIFFs.
Curved paths in the clipping path can get distorted pretty badly. Just try
making a simple, 4-point circular clipping path in Photoshop, saving this as
a TIFF, and importing into FH for a demonstration (yes it will print like
that). EPS on the other hand is fine.
Danny
[Remember: reply to the forum and we all learn.]
Ken Kehl
webfor...@macromedia.com wrote:
> OK ONE MORE TIME:
>
> YES - I HAVE printed to .ps. Numerous times. It is the only thing that even come close, when the settings are just right, planets in alignment, ect...(masks still get dropped or shifted though)
>
> But now the only thing I get is an 'Out of Memory' Message when I try to print to file. Apparently 2GB isnt enough RAM to print a file to disk that contains two 40mb placed images.
>
> Danny - there is no constistency between how FH is handleing eps or tiffs, honestly I havent been because I didnt KNOW there are issues with tiff files. Frankly if that's the case - I'm FUCT, because I need TIFF. There is one tiff file that is exibiting the behaviour that you describe, but InDesign is handling that tiff the same way - so I'm pretty sure it's the tiff file itself. Other than that, I havent seen that much clipping path problems, aside from the fact that masks just get dropped completely - TIFF or EPS, IN FREEHAND, before I even export.
Plain TIFF works fine, and is one of the only two file formats that I
use and recommend to Freehand users. As Danny pointed out, a clipping
path in a TIFF will give results which range from slight
misregistration between image and path (always) to outright
distortion.
The 'tried and true' method of handling clipping paths is to build
them yourself, or *export* them from Photoshop as .ai and incorporate
it into your FH artwork.
http://www.concentric.net/~ellipsis/PSClip.html
______
Ken
ellipsis design
(remove the _xx_'s)
Ken Kehl
webfor...@macromedia.com wrote:
> You're kidding right?
No, I don't believe so...
> so basically Freehand cant handle Tiff files then - w/o Illustrator - or recreating the path in Freehand!!!??? These are food product shots - not really an easy path to recreate. Now I can just imagine if when we start getting model shots with hair - I'm supposed to recreate the clipping path in Freehand!!??
>
> Oh that's convenient.
>
> How about the other option; why would I want to go to Illustrator just to come back to Freehand? Right now as it is I'm just trying to get the file OUT of Freehand's menacing grasp and into a stable software package that is 'tried and true' when it comes to dealing with Tiff files (ie just about anything but Freehand).
From your reply, it is obvious that you did not read or understand the
content of the link I offered.
____
Ken
ellipsis design
(remove the _xx_'s)
Help provided in proportion to information supplied.
Please respond to the newsgroup - it benefits everyone.
lozza
webfor...@macromedia.com wrote on 3/14/03 3:14 PM:
> yes, I misread your post the first reading, but saving out from Photoshop as a
> .AI(?) just is not feasible in our workflow. I need complete tiff support, and
> if Macromedia cant provide it, then they are simply in the wrong business.
>
> I have enough hoops to jump through as it is - this is not going to help,
> thanks for the suggestion.
>
> Next?
>
>
>
Use only PhotoShop EPS files with clipping paths. Defacto-standardo.
--
Jimmy Lozza
William G. Dalzell
are supposed to be able to make Tiffs with clipping paths from PS6 on
but they have been problematic for most. If the TIFF has a clipping
path, resave it as an EPS and it should behave properly. I have also had
customer supplied TIFFS which refused to print from FH, probably
contained some vector elements, which would behave OK after converting
to EPS.
"PO'd PREPRESS" webfor...@macromedia.com wrote:
> The files, as they are supplied by the client, have both placed EPS and TIFF files.
>
Brian Pylant
files are the preferred format to use when you need clipping.
Brian
PO'd PREPRESS
OK, first off, I'M not using EPS or TIFF, my CLIENTS are. WHY do I PREFER TIFF? Numerous reasons - a real screen preview is one, LZW is another. Layered Tiffs have just about replaced the PSD file format in our workflow.
"EPS files are the preferred format to use when you need clipping"
That's news to me until about 3 days ago. Funny - outside of Freehand, Tiffs work great - even layered ones, even LZW ones, even Layered LZW tiffs - all work perfectly OUTSIDE of Freehand.
So you're saying that EPS is the way to go with Freehand?
OK, so where's all the Bozos here that have been claiming that they've been exporting PDF's to their printers, while at the same time criticising my attempts at exporting a file? Where are they now?
Are they using EPS? TIFF? The manual itself claims that the EPS preview, and ONLY the EPS preview gets sent out to the PDF.
Using Tiff files create clipping path issues? I wonder what raster format these guys are using? PNG? GIF?
Thanks guys, you've been a huge help, I know have enough reasons to tell my client that I can no longer accept Freehand 10 files.
Piers Le Sueur
But your obvious options are be supplied something else other than feehand or use Photoshop EPS files.
Until recently have used FH9/10 almost exclusively for final art output particularly using PDF.
I can assure you that when you make a PDF the WHOLE EPS file is included as far as I am aware, it's given me the results that I needed.....
If you need any further help regards a PDF workflow/output I am only too willing to help.
Although these days I am using InDesign much more as there are a greater range of options open in terms of what you can do for output. But I feel Freehand still has it's place.... as long as I find it gives me the results I need.
Good luck on resolving your "client" problem.
Regards
Piers Le Sueur
Brian Pylant
> PREFER TIFF? Numerous reasons - a real screen preview is one
A valid point. If precise alignment of the images is required then you
need a better preview, no argument there. Froma design standpoint I'd
have placed a TIFF for alignment purposes and then update the link to
the EPS w/ clipping path. For prepress I don't often need to worry about
these things, however, since the client should be supplying the layout.
> LZW is another.
IMO LZW is irrelevant these days; you really don't save that much space,
and HD space is cheap.
> Layered Tiffs have just about replaced the PSD file format
> in our workflow.
Interesting. I never use the PSD format for placing images in layouts
(see below) so PSDs never actually make it into the output workflow.
> "EPS files are the preferred format to use when you need clipping"
>
> That's news to me until about 3 days ago.
How long have you been in prepress? (And I mean that as an honest
question, not a sarcastic remark.) Layered TIFFs are the new kids on the
block, and historically EPS was the file format to use when you wanted
clipping path support. (Many older RIPs still in use will fail a TIFF
with extra channels, paths or layers, and many others that don't fail
will produce unexpected results.)
> Funny - outside of
> Freehand, Tiffs work great - even layered ones, even LZW ones, even
> Layered LZW tiffs - all work perfectly OUTSIDE of Freehand.
TIFFs work great in FreeHand as well, but I can only speak to
non-layered TIFF w/out paths (with or without LZW; I prefer not to use
it but it shouldn't matter either way).
I never (EVER) place a layered document into any layout app (call me
old-fashioned, but I was taught that PSDs were for Photoshop; flattened
TIFFs and EPSs were for placement elsewhere), and if I need a clipping
path I either use an EPS, or (when placing into FreeHand) I use Ken's
trick which allows me full editability of the path in FreeHand.
> So you're saying that EPS is the way to go with Freehand?
IMO for clipping paths it's the way to go with all apps, not just FreeHand.
> Are they using EPS? TIFF? The manual itself claims that the EPS
> preview, and ONLY the EPS preview gets sent out to the PDF.
I can't speak for this, because IMO the only proper way to create a PDF
is using Acrobat Distiller - I don't trust the save or export PDF
functions of any program, FreeHand included.
> Using Tiff files create clipping path issues? I wonder what raster
> format these guys are using? PNG? GIF?
Probably EPS.
>
> Thanks guys, you've been a huge help, I know have enough reasons to
> tell my client that I can no longer accept Freehand 10 files.
While I think this is a harsh and premature step to take, sadly I doubt
you'll notice much of a loss here... FreeHand does not command the
market share it once did.