Are You Guys Aware of the Bellsouth Routing Problem?

Billy Saul Hearok

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Feb 13, 2003, 5:11:30 AM2/13/03

to

Just wondering, because no one here seems to be mentioning it. It's
all anyone is talking about over in the Bellsouth Dslreports forum.
Some are starting to abandon ship because of it.

For those who don't know about it: Apparently, about 2 months ago
Bellsouth switched routing for many states over to a route through New
Orleans, instead of the usual route through Atlanta. This was supposed
to be a temporary solution during an "upgrade".

As a result, latency doubled and, for some, packet loss resulted
because of congestion along the new, much longer route. This so-called
"temporary" re-routing has continued for some(myself included) until
this very day. Symptoms of the New Orleans routing include doubled
ping times and sluggish web page loads.

In the last weeks, Bellsouth has returned to Atlanta routing for some
of the effected states, but the New Orleans routing continues for the
entire state of Alabama, large portions of Tennessee, large portions
of Florida, large portions of North Carolina, and maybe more. You can
determine whether you are effected by the bad routing by doing a
traceroute. If NOL shows up in your traceroute, where ATL once was,
then your routing has been changed to New Orleans. (Unless, of course,
you are closer to New Orleans than Atlanta, in which case this is
normal).

Maybe if enough of us complain, we can get this fixed.

BTW: Here's a link to one of the many discussions about this at
Dslreports.com:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,5241844~root=ilec,bels~mode=flat

And here's a link to the general Bellsouth forum at dslreports so that
you can read through some more threads about the routing issue:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/ilec,bels~root=ilec,bels~mode=shut;start=20

Bellsouth Customer

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Feb 13, 2003, 8:37:58 AM2/13/03

to

Maybe this explains the poor service I have been posting about in New
Orleans. Not really slow loading as much pages not loading at all or taking
forever to fullfill a request.

"Billy Saul Hearok" <Bi...@blowedupgood.com> wrote in message
news:4iqm4v0uabd6asdnm...@4ax.com...

Art Jackson

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Feb 13, 2003, 10:20:24 AM2/13/03

to

Billy Saul Hearok <Bi...@blowedupgood.com> wrote in

news:4iqm4v0uabd6asdnm...@4ax.com:

It doesn't appear that KY is going through NOL, but I wish BSIS would
assign DNS names to their routers so we could tell how we are routed.
Latency has been much improved over the old UUNET route through
Chicago, which ran between 80-90 for me. When BSIS took over routing,
latency dropped to 50-60, then recently, it dropped to 30-35.

TraceRoute - Thursday, February 13, 2003 15:19:06 GMT
Generated by CyberKit Version 2.5
Copyright © 1996-2000 by Luc Neijens

Address: newsgroups.bellsouth.net
Number of Packets: 1
Packet size: 36
Trace Hop 1 through 30
Timeout: 3
Resolve Addresses: Yes
Don't Fragment: Yes

#1 adsl-80-118-1.owb.bellsouth.net (65.80.118.1): ttl=64, 19 ms
#2 Unavailable (66.156.140.1): 20 ms
#3 host-205-152-229-185.bgk.bellsouth.net (205.152.229.185): 17 ms
#4 host-205-152-229-58.bgk.bellsouth.net (205.152.229.58): 23 ms
#5 Unavailable (65.83.237.66): TTL Exceeded, ttl=249, 30 ms
#6 Unavailable (65.83.236.8): TTL Exceeded, ttl=248, 31 ms
#7 Unavailable (65.83.237.3): TTL Exceeded, ttl=248, 33 ms
#8 Unavailable (205.152.37.205): TTL Exceeded, ttl=247, 32 ms
#9 Unavailable (205.152.152.38): TTL Exceeded, ttl=246, 31 ms
#10 Unavailable (205.152.152.138): TTL Exceeded, ttl=245, 32 ms
#11 Unavailable (66.21.240.218): TTL Exceeded, ttl=244, 33 ms
#12 ge1-2-atb-b1-01.bb.webusenet.net (64.154.60.134): 34 ms
#13 news2.bsdn.webusenet.com (65.82.44.187): Echo Reply, ttl=51, 34 ms

Statistics: Out 13, in 13, loss 0%, times (min/avg/max) 17/28/34 ms

--
Art Jackson W4TOY Owensboro, KY USA
Life is God's open book test. In order to pass,
you must open His book to find the answers.

Billy Saul Hearok

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Feb 13, 2003, 11:16:55 AM2/13/03

to

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:37:58 -0600, "Bellsouth Customer"
<sirf...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Maybe this explains the poor service I have been posting about in New
>Orleans. Not really slow loading as much pages not loading at all or taking
>forever to fullfill a request.
>

I would bet that this is EXACTLY the reason that you've been having
poor service. After all, when you route in traffic from 4 or 5 more
states, somethings got to give...

Sounds like you're having the EXACT same symptoms that I am(I'm routed
through New Orleans).

Billy Saul Hearok

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Feb 13, 2003, 11:24:59 AM2/13/03

to

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:20:24 GMT, Art Jackson <rtj...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>It doesn't appear that KY is going through NOL, but I wish BSIS would
>assign DNS names to their routers so we could tell how we are routed.
>Latency has been much improved over the old UUNET route through
>Chicago, which ran between 80-90 for me. When BSIS took over routing,
>latency dropped to 50-60, then recently, it dropped to 30-35.

My connect used to be almost that good. I would get about a 42 ping to
most servers. Since the routing change, I get 95-100+ and at least 20
hops :(

>
>TraceRoute - Thursday, February 13, 2003 15:19:06 GMT
>Generated by CyberKit Version 2.5

>Copyright Š 1996-2000 by Luc Neijens

>
>Address: newsgroups.bellsouth.net
>Number of Packets: 1
>Packet size: 36
>Trace Hop 1 through 30
>Timeout: 3
>Resolve Addresses: Yes
>Don't Fragment: Yes

Art, can you try running a trace from Dos? I usually quite a few names
along the trace, but you got almost all IP numbers. Maybe this is a
Cyberkit thing?

If you've never done a traceroute from Dos, you can do it by opening a
Dos window, then typing TRACERT DSLREPORTS.COM

Art Jackson

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Feb 13, 2003, 12:03:44 PM2/13/03

to

Billy Saul Hearok <Bi...@blowedupgood.com> wrote in

news:r7hn4vs40ub5cd5ae...@4ax.com:

Still don't see names on the BSIS portion of the route, except the ones
here in KY that have been the same since day one. As soon as I jumped
off the BSIS network, the router names start showing up. Here is the
DOS tracert to dslreports.com which looks like we are going direct to
ATL from the BGK router here in KY, then out on ALTERNET/ATTnet. I
don't know where dslreports is located, but it routes from atl-washDC-
NY-NJ-???.

Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 14 ms 12 ms 12 ms adsl-80-118-1.owb.bellsouth.net
[65.80.118.1]

2 13 ms 13 ms 12 ms 66.156.140.1

3 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms host-205-152-229-185.bgk.bellsouth.net
[205.152.229.185]

4 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms host-205-152-229-58.bgk.bellsouth.net
[205.152.229.58]

5 27 ms 26 ms 27 ms 65.83.237.66

6 26 ms 26 ms 27 ms 65.83.236.4

7 28 ms 27 ms 27 ms so-2-0-0.GW13.ATL5.ALTER.NET
[157.130.71.169]

8 27 ms 28 ms 28 ms 0.so-0-1-0.XL2.ATL5.ALTER.NET
[152.63.84.102]

9 28 ms 28 ms 27 ms POS7-0.BR2.ATL5.ALTER.NET
[152.63.82.193]

10 28 ms 30 ms 31 ms uu-gw.attga.ip.att.net [192.205.32.129]

11 45 ms 44 ms 43 ms tbr2-p013402.attga.ip.att.net
[12.122.12.49]

12 42 ms 44 ms 43 ms tbr1-p012501.attga.ip.att.net
[12.122.9.157]

13 43 ms 44 ms 43 ms tbr2-p013801.wswdc.ip.att.net
[12.122.10.69]

14 44 ms 43 ms 41 ms tbr1-p013601.wswdc.ip.att.net
[12.122.9.149]

15 48 ms 47 ms 46 ms tbr1-p012201.n54ny.ip.att.net
[12.122.10.17]

16 47 ms 46 ms 47 ms gar1-p3100.nwrnj.ip.att.net
[12.123.214.181]

17 48 ms 47 ms 47 ms 12.119.140.30

18 48 ms 49 ms 47 ms 1189.at-0-1-0.gbr1.oct.nac.net
[209.123.11.69]

19 47 ms 50 ms 50 ms 0095.gi-1-1.msfc1.oct.nac.net
[64.21.102.2]

20 47 ms 49 ms 50 ms dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.

The DOS trace to newsgroups.bellsouth.net is the same as Cyber-Kit
produced. BSIS just doesn't assign names to their new routers, so it is
hard to pinpoint a problem to a particular point on their network,
except by IP address. This brings up a question for me. Since we are
into Atlanta in 6 hops, why is it taking 7 more hops to get to the news
server which is also in Atlanta? Looks like it's taking the senic
route. ;-(

Tracing route to news2.bsdn.webusenet.com [65.82.44.187]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 13 ms 12 ms 13 ms adsl-80-118-1.owb.bellsouth.net
[65.80.118.1]

2 13 ms 12 ms 13 ms 66.156.140.1

3 13 ms 12 ms 14 ms host-205-152-229-185.bgk.bellsouth.net
[205.152.229.185]

4 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms host-205-152-229-58.bgk.bellsouth.net
[205.152.229.58]

5 26 ms 28 ms 27 ms 65.83.237.66

6 28 ms 26 ms 26 ms 65.83.236.8

7 27 ms 27 ms 27 ms 65.83.237.3

8 26 ms 27 ms 26 ms 205.152.37.205

9 28 ms 27 ms 29 ms 205.152.152.38

10 28 ms 27 ms 27 ms 205.152.152.138

11 28 ms 26 ms 29 ms 66.21.240.218

12 30 ms 27 ms 27 ms ge1-2-atb-b1-01.bb.webusenet.net
[64.154.60.134]

13 28 ms 28 ms 26 ms news2.bsdn.webusenet.com [65.82.44.187]

Trace complete.

Billy Saul Hearok

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Feb 13, 2003, 12:38:15 PM2/13/03

to

Yeah, looks like your routing is going through Atlanta (you lucky dog
:)

Apparently, not all of Kentucky is going through Atlanta, though. On
dslreports, there are a few Kentucky customers who have the New
Orleans routing. I guess you won the Bellsouth crap-shoot :)

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:03:44 GMT, Art Jackson <rtj...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>

burris

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Feb 13, 2003, 1:10:53 PM2/13/03

to

Here's mine from Miami to BellSouth....DSL

Feb 13 2003
Tracing route to 216.77.188.40 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 29 ms 28 ms 29 ms adsl-63-246-1.mia.bellsouth.net
[208.63.246.1]
2 29 ms 27 ms 28 ms 209.215.49.65
3 28 ms 29 ms 29 ms 209.215.49.14
4 36 ms 30 ms 30 ms 65.83.237.8
5 32 ms 28 ms 29 ms 65.83.236.25
6 45 ms 46 ms 47 ms 65.83.236.14
7 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms 65.83.237.3
8 46 ms 46 ms 47 ms 205.152.37.204
9 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms 205.152.152.46
10 260 ms 214 ms 201 ms 205.152.152.130
11 48 ms 47 ms 49 ms 66.21.240.205
12 48 ms 47 ms 49 ms 216.77.188.40

Trace complete.

Folk

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Feb 13, 2003, 12:54:55 PM2/13/03

to

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:11:30 -0600, Billy Saul Hearok
<Bi...@blowedupgood.com> wrote:

>Just wondering, because no one here seems to be mentioning it. It's
>all anyone is talking about over in the Bellsouth Dslreports forum.
>Some are starting to abandon ship because of it.

That's probably because the problem is isolated. In my case (Western
N.C.) my routing actually improved after the changeover. Here's a
before and after:

Before:

Target Name: www.bellsouth.net
IP: 216.77.188.40
Date/Time: 11/17/2002 8:22:46 PM

1 0 ms adsl-155-54-1.ard.bellsouth.net [68.155.54.1]
2 0 ms adsl-81-188-1.ard.bellsouth.net [65.81.188.1]
3 15 ms adsl-152-88-249.ard.bellsouth.net [205.152.88.249]
4 16 ms [205.152.26.45]
5 16 ms [205.152.26.184]
6 15 ms 602.ATM1-0.GW1.MIA4.ALTER.NET [157.130.79.25]
7 15 ms 614.at-1-0-0.CL1.GSO1.ALTER.NET [152.63.36.150]
8 16 ms 0.so-0-0-0.TL1.DCA6.ALTER.NET [152.63.38.69]
9 47 ms 0.so-3-0-0.TL1.ATL5.ALTER.NET [152.63.38.62]
10 31 ms 0.so-3-0-0.XL1.ATL5.ALTER.NET [152.63.85.218]
11 31 ms 0.so-6-0-0.GW13.ATL5.ALTER.NET [152.63.84.105]
12 31 ms bellsouth-atl-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.73.98]
13 32 ms [65.83.236.1]
14 31 ms [65.83.237.1]
15 47 ms [205.152.37.204]
16 32 ms [205.152.152.34]
17 31 ms [205.152.152.130]
18 31 ms [66.21.240.205]
19 31 ms [216.77.188.40]

After:

Target Name: www.bellsouth.net
IP: 216.77.188.40
Date/Time: 2/13/2003 12:54:28 PM

1 16 ms adsl-155-61-1.ard.bellsouth.net [68.155.61.1]
2 0 ms adsl-81-188-1.ard.bellsouth.net [65.81.188.1]
3 0 ms adsl-152-88-248.ard.bellsouth.net [205.152.88.248]
4 15 ms adsl-152-88-54.ard.bellsouth.net [205.152.88.54]
5 47 ms [65.83.237.56]
6 32 ms [65.83.237.3]
7 31 ms [205.152.37.140]
8 31 ms [205.152.152.34]
9 31 ms [205.152.152.130]
10 32 ms [66.21.240.205]
11 31 ms [216.77.188.40]

Billy Saul Hearok

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Feb 13, 2003, 1:45:52 PM2/13/03

to

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:54:55 -0500, Folk <Fo...@folk.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:11:30 -0600, Billy Saul Hearok
><Bi...@blowedupgood.com> wrote:
>
>>Just wondering, because no one here seems to be mentioning it. It's
>>all anyone is talking about over in the Bellsouth Dslreports forum.
>>Some are starting to abandon ship because of it.
>
>That's probably because the problem is isolated. In my case (Western
>N.C.) my routing actually improved after the changeover. Here's a

I dunno, maybe all of us laggers just happen to congregate over at
dslreports :)

But, for the state of Alabama, this is NOT an isolated issue. Routing
for the whole state is through New Orleans. I've yet to see an Alabama
traceroute that doesn't go through NOL... unfortunately :(

Billy Saul Hearok

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Feb 13, 2003, 1:47:46 PM2/13/03

to

Arg! Now you guys are just rubbing it in :)

My pings used to look like that... ah, those were the days

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:10:53 -0500, burris <resp...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

Robin Hood

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Feb 13, 2003, 2:20:59 PM2/13/03

to

I'm in Birmingham and I don't seem to be going through NO:

C:\>tracert newsgroups.bellsouth.net

Tracing route to news2.bsdn.webusenet.com [65.82.44.187]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 16 ms 14 ms 15 ms adsl-80-101-1.bhm.bellsouth.net [65.80.101.1]
2 15 ms 17 ms 16 ms adsl-21-226-1.bhm.bellsouth.net [66.21.226.1]
3 14 ms 16 ms 16 ms 207.203.159.249
4 24 ms 24 ms 23 ms 65.83.237.42
5 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms 65.83.236.40
6 39 ms 40 ms 40 ms 65.83.236.45
7 39 ms 40 ms 39 ms 65.83.236.8
8 39 ms 39 ms 40 ms 65.83.237.3
9 40 ms 39 ms 39 ms 205.152.37.204
10 40 ms 40 ms 39 ms 205.152.152.34
11 41 ms 41 ms 41 ms 205.152.152.130
12 41 ms 42 ms 41 ms 66.21.240.218
13 42 ms 40 ms 42 ms ge2-3-atb-b1-01.bb.webusenet.net
[64.154.60.106]

14 41 ms 41 ms 42 ms news2.bsdn.webusenet.com [65.82.44.187]

Trace complete.

In article <5qpn4v0lkeenfplgd...@4ax.com>, Billy Saul Hearok

Art Jackson

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Feb 13, 2003, 2:53:16 PM2/13/03

to

burris <resp...@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:3E4BDFAD...@bellsouth.net:

> Here's mine from Miami to BellSouth....DSL
>
> Feb 13 2003
> Tracing route to 216.77.188.40 over a maximum of 30 hops
>
> 1 29 ms 28 ms 29 ms adsl-63-246-1.mia.bellsouth.net
> [208.63.246.1]
> 2 29 ms 27 ms 28 ms 209.215.49.65
> 3 28 ms 29 ms 29 ms 209.215.49.14
> 4 36 ms 30 ms 30 ms 65.83.237.8
> 5 32 ms 28 ms 29 ms 65.83.236.25
> 6 45 ms 46 ms 47 ms 65.83.236.14
> 7 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms 65.83.237.3
> 8 46 ms 46 ms 47 ms 205.152.37.204
> 9 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms 205.152.152.46

10 260 ms 214 ms 201 ms 205.152.152.130

Looks like a blip on your radar, burris. Is this repeatable?

> 11 48 ms 47 ms 49 ms 66.21.240.205
> 12 48 ms 47 ms 49 ms 216.77.188.40
>
> Trace complete.
>
>

--

Billy Saul Hearok

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Feb 13, 2003, 3:04:13 PM2/13/03

to

Wow! This is the first AL trace I've seen that wasn't effected. You
should post this on the Bellsouth forum at dslreports.

Weird thing is, other Birmingham users have posted their traces at
DSLreports and they WERE on the New Orleans routing. Could it be that
half of Birmingham is and half isn't?

Here's a post from a Birmingham traceroute on dslreports:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.2.1
2 62 ms 55 ms 59 ms adsl-17-165-1.bhm.bellsouth.net [68.17.165.1]
3 59 ms 59 ms 59 ms adsl-21-226-1.bhm.bellsouth.net [66.21.226.1]
4 57 ms 59 ms 60 ms 207.203.159.185
5 106 ms 107 ms 109 ms 65.83.237.42
6 104 ms 107 ms 107 ms 65.83.236.38
7 106 ms 107 ms 107 ms 500.so-2-0-0.GW5.NOL1.ALTER.NET [65.208.10.21]
8 106 ms 107 ms 108 ms 0.so-3-0-0.CL1.NOL1.ALTER.NET [152.63.102.98]
9 121 ms 123 ms 119 ms 0.so-6-2-0.XL1.DFW9.ALTER.NET [152.63.1.202]
10 119 ms 124 ms 122 ms POS6-0.BR2.DFW9.ALTER.NET [152.63.99.209]
11 122 ms 120 ms 119 ms 204.255.168.54
12 1934 ms 168 ms 155 ms tbr2-p012402.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.12.93]
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 437 ms 1752 ms 152 ms tbr2-p013801.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.45]
15 148 ms 146 ms 144 ms tbr1-p012501.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.9.133]
16 165 ms 168 ms 166 ms tbr1-p012101.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.10.49]
17 162 ms 158 ms 160 ms gar1-p3100.nwrnj.ip.att.net [12.123.214.181]
18 164 ms 162 ms 160 ms 12.119.140.30
19 168 ms 167 ms 163 ms 1189.at-0-1-0.gbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.11.69]
20 172 ms 175 ms 171 ms 0095.gi-1-1.msfc1.oct.nac.net [64.21.102.2]
21 162 ms 163 ms 163 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Art Jackson

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Feb 13, 2003, 3:27:25 PM2/13/03

to

Billy Saul Hearok <Bi...@blowedupgood.com> wrote in
news:56un4vks35bp3avie...@4ax.com:

Billy, even your first hop has delay that's typical of dialup
connections. Robin Hoods trace is from a different block of IP
addresses, so you may be in different parts of B'ham or one of the many
small towns around B'ham. Check some of the other IP addresses that are
reporting trouble from B'ham, and maybe you can develope a pattern to a
particular router that serves a common area. With that information,
BSIS should be able to fix it. FWIW, I had a trouble that appeared to
be similar to your traces, showing bad everywhere along the route. It
turned out to be AC power line noise on the transformer pole in my back
yard. I detected it by using a battery powered AM radio tuned down to
the low end of the AM band and off any station. The noise was easily
detected and loud and clear. Any new AM radio transmitters in your
area?

burris

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Feb 13, 2003, 4:41:13 PM2/13/03

to

Art....

Here is another tracert..just done...followed by another with Neotrace
Pro.

Tracing route to 216.77.188.40 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 29 ms 29 ms 29 ms adsl-63-239-1.mia.bellsouth.net
[208.63.239.1]
2 30 ms 30 ms 29 ms 209.215.49.65
3 42 ms 30 ms 30 ms 209.215.49.14
4 29 ms 28 ms 31 ms 65.83.237.8
5 29 ms 30 ms 29 ms 65.83.236.25
6 46 ms 47 ms 47 ms 65.83.236.14
7 47 ms 46 ms 47 ms 65.83.237.3
8 46 ms 46 ms 45 ms 205.152.37.204
9 48 ms 47 ms 47 ms 205.152.152.46
10 48 ms 47 ms 46 ms 205.152.152.130
11 49 ms 47 ms 49 ms 66.21.240.205
12 48 ms 48 ms 48 ms 216.77.188.40

Trace complete.

--------------------------

NeoTrace Trace Version 3.25 Results
Target: 216.77.188.40
Date: 2/13/03 (Thursday), 4:36:40 PM
Nodes: 13

Node Data
Node Net Reg IP Address Location Node Name
1 - - xxxxxxxxxx Hollywood burris
2 1 - 208.63.239.1 Unknown
3 2 - 209.215.49.65 Unknown
4 2 - 209.215.49.14 Unknown
5 3 - 65.83.237.8 Unknown
6 3 - 65.83.236.25 Unknown
7 3 - 65.83.236.14 Unknown
8 3 - 65.83.237.3 Unknown
9 4 - 205.152.37.204 Unknown
10 4 - 205.152.152.46 Unknown
11 4 - 205.152.152.130 Unknown
12 5 - 66.21.240.205 Unknown
13 6 - 216.77.188.40 Unknown

Packet Data
Node High Low Avg Tot Lost
1 0 0 0 1 0
2 31 31 31 1 0
3 29 29 29 1 0
4 28 28 28 1 0
5 28 28 28 1 0
6 30 30 30 1 0
7 49 49 49 1 0
8 45 45 45 1 0
9 49 49 49 1 0
10 47 47 47 1 0
11 52 52 52 1 0
12 49 49 49 1 0
13 48 48 48 1 0

Network Data
Network id#: 1