Is submitfire.com legit... or did I get taken?
Adams-Blake Company
service was good. I put the order in around noon on Wed. and so far have not
heard back, beyond getting an auto-generated receipt from their credit card
processor? I wrote them a polite note saying that if I didn't hear by the
close of business today I'd make inquiry to the Texas Attorney General's
Consumer Fraud Unit's office. Maybe it will get their attention. Has anyone
else had any problems with them? I called this AM, but they don't open until
9 AM and I have to be on the road all day so I won't get another chance. I
don't mind making a bad decision... goes with the job... good judgement comes
from bad judegement.... but I hate being ripped.
Al
o e p @diydatarecovery.nl Joep
--
Joep
"Adams-Blake Company" <atakeou...@adams-blaketakeout.com> wrote in
message news:1039jip...@news20.forteinc.com...
Tony Bryer
wrote:
> I didn't do my usual due diligence and just took someone's word
> that this service was good. I put the order in around noon on Wed.
> and so far have not heard back, beyond getting an auto-generated
> receipt from their credit card processor? I wrote them a polite note
> saying that if I didn't hear by the close of business today I'd make
> inquiry to the Texas Attorney General's Consumer Fraud Unit's
> office.
A little hasty perhaps? Your message is timed as 0654 Thursday so they
haven't had 24 hours to handle it. We reckon to process everything
same day, but on occasions I'm off on courses or doing something else
so it doesn't happen as fast as I'd like.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Shareware Industry Conference 2004 sponsor: http://www.sic.org
Colin Quarello
before...
Just give 'em time - I'm sure that they handle all orders as fast as they
can, but only giving them several hours to respond before threatening them
is kinda harsh.
Just my $0.02
"Adams-Blake Company" <atakeou...@adams-blaketakeout.com> wrote in
message news:1039jip...@news20.forteinc.com...
Edwin Lau
Actually right after you registered, you would be able to log into
the admin area. I found that they don't email you until about a day
later but everything is accessible right after sign up.
Edwin
Adams-Blake Company <atakeou...@adams-blaketakeout.com> wrote in
news:1039jip...@news20.forteinc.com:
Adams-Blake Company
> Al,
>
> Actually right after you registered, you would be able to log into
> the admin area. I found that they don't email you until about a day
> later but everything is accessible right after sign up.
>
> Edwin
>
Here is my story (and I'm sticking to it :-).
I called them (again) around 9:30 AM their time. They gave me a customer
support woman who asked me some questions, tapped some keys, and said that
she was sending me a confirmation e-mail with the account codes, etc. and
nothing else. I guess she was busy as she couldn't get off the phone fast
enough with me. (And it was too early for a noon-er. but maybe in Texas they
start earlier?)
Fine.
I got the e-mail and logged into the account. about an two hours later. It
showed no activity. Now remember it was about 24 hours since they took my
money. But I decided to give them a several more hours. By around the end of
the business day central time, I checked again and it showed no activity. So
I called tech support.
A young man came on, asked some questions, tapped some keys, and got back on
the phone and said that the reason that the URL was not submitted was because
there was a space between the "http://" and the address (www.jaya123.com) and
because of that the system would not do what it is supposed to... and there
was NO failure reporting.
Obviously, when I entered the URL I must have inadvertently entered the space.
My eyesight is not what it used to be now that I'm on the back-side of my 50s
(and it was never good to begin with... I've been wearing glasses since I was
12.) The tech guy fixed the problem and said that our URL would be submitted
tonight (it is 7:30 PM as I write this), so I will check in the AM.
OK, I know that mistakes happen. But come on folks. This is a "high tech"
company. Just how freakin' hard would is it to put an edit in their PHP
code to check if the URL is formatted correctly when the customer enters it?
I'll tell you how hard... NOT VERY... and I tell you this after writing
67,000 lines of the 100,000+ lines of PHP code in JAYA so please take my word
for it. I don't know much these days... but I know the hell out of PHP!!
And maybe they could have just a tiny bit of QC on the back end.... like a
simple failure report? I mean we've only been doing these kind of things in
IT for about fifty years now.
Would I recommend SubmitFire to anyone? No I wouldn't because I think they
have very lax quality control and equally lax customer support.
I don't know if any of you folks have online businesses or the need to support
a client base... but we do... and I can tell you that there is absolutely no
substitute for top-of-the-line customer support, oversight, and pro-active
management. And the SubmitFire people failed my litmus test. As I understand
it, they are owned by a larger corporation called Coffee Cup? (Which if
things are going as they seem then they are probably owned by Digital
River... and we all know what wonderful service those folks have!)
You know something? Maybe if the tech support guy had simply said something
like "Gee, I real sorry this happened, Mr. Canton. I'm going to take it up
with my management to see if we can prevent this from occurring again" I
would have been content. But he put the blame on me (I did not argue) and
treated me like I was the "big dummy."
Why am I ticked? Because like an idiot I hold others to our standard.
When we screw up (and yes, we DO!) I make sure to call the customer, send
flowers or See's candy or a $50 gift certificate to Amazon, and follow up two
weeks later to make sure there are no hard feelings. We NEVER EVER, EVER let
a customer be unhappy about our software or our new web service. It is JOB
ONE here, no matter what it cost, no matter what it takes, no matter how
hard, no matter how long, no matter who is right or wrong, no matter what
they want, we will do anything legal to satisfy the customer. I'd rather give
away the store to a customer than to have them pissed off at us when we %^%$
up.
Thirty years ago when I was in my mid 20s, I was an "understudy" to Ross Perot
at EDS. He told me that if someone is angry they will tell all 128 of their
friends. I asked him how he knew the number of 128. He said that EDS once did
a system for a national chain of funeral homes and part of it was to
determine how many chairs to put in the viewing/service room... and it was
found that the average person has a "circle of influence" of 128. I want that
customer telling his 128 "circle" how good we are, not that we're a bunch of
^%$%# ups!!
Not to brag, but I have slightly more than 128 people in my "circle of
influence."
I know some of you will think me unreasonable, but like I say, my standards
are high. You will never, ever find anyone say a "bad thing" about our
company, our software or our personal service. At EDS the mantra was
"Whatever it takes to please the customer" and I've never forgotten that,
and it has been my prime directive my entire business career... and it is
what I credit my success to. I learned long, long ago that it's not about
me... it's about them because they put the bread on my table and allow me to
support my very expensive wife, the cats who ignore me, and my wife's dog
that hates me. (Thanks, Ross, wherever you are.)
If any of you have contacts with the management of SubmitFire feel free to
send them a copy of this. I'm sure it will mean more coming from you (a
friend) than me.
Sorry this is so long. I don't have the time right now to make it shorter.
Alan N. Canton, President
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
Fair Oaks, CA
www.adams-blake.com
N Cook
> I know some of you will think me unreasonable, but like I say, my standards
> are high. You will never, ever find anyone say a "bad thing" about our
> company, our software or our personal service. At EDS the mantra was
> "Whatever it takes to please the customer" and I've never forgotten that,
> and it has been my prime directive my entire business career... and it is
> what I credit my success to. I learned long, long ago that it's not about
> me... it's about them because they put the bread on my table and allow me to
> support my very expensive wife, the cats who ignore me, and my wife's dog
> that hates me. (Thanks, Ross, wherever you are.)
>
Al,
Perhaps I'm taking something out of context, but how can you ensure that
no one ever says a bad thing about your software? Seems an impossible
task to me.
I appreciate your general point though, I think it's well made.
Nigel
Adams-Blake Company
> Al,
>
> Perhaps I'm taking something out of context, but how can you ensure that
> no one ever says a bad thing about your software? Seems an impossible
> task to me.
>
Of course there are people who don't find our products as good a match for
their needs, but we never hear people say that the products are crap, that
they suck, or that they are rip-offs. When people don't buy or subscribe they
say "Well if you did this (or that) or if it worked "my" way" we'd buy it."
And that is understandable. These same people go out and say "You might want
to try JAYA123. It was not a good match for our operation but it might be for
yours." And believe me that's as good as it can get. Our software has always
been a word of mouth thing. One person tells twenty, One of the twenty join.
They tell twenty and so on. (I'm guessing at the numbers here.)
One of the things that can really help is to bring users in at the early stage
when you are designing your product. We do it by paying beta testers (and
consequently require detailed reporting so that they earn the $150 we give
them for their work (maybe 20 hours... so they are not getting rich.... but
people like the idea of getting paid to test and critique software.)
The other thing is to always be in a state of development and listen to your
customers. For example last week I did a trial of Ed Guy's ParseRat program
for a client. I wrote him and said something to the effect that it was great
that the program did a pad-left of blanks and it was too bad it didn't do a
pad-right. This week Ed wrote and said my idea was a good one and he put in
some code to do it. That's how you win customers.
With JAYA123 we are starting to get requests for new reports and we're happy
to do them. Whatever the customer base wants we do our best to give it to
them. And that's basically how PUB123 got so bloated. It started out as a
simple program and over the years we added all the "crap" people asked for.
Three weeks ago a customer asked if we would put in a subscription module in
JAYA as she sells newsletters.... so we did (took about 100 hours). One of
the biggest mistakes that developers make is that they only eat their own dog
food. You have to try other brands as well... and listen to others who are
eating yours as well as your competitors brand.... it's all about learning.
As I posted earlier, fast, accurate, and friendly customer service is
essential. We use CS as a sales tool. When we do something "good" for a
customer we "ask for the sale" by writing them a letter thanking them for
using our products and to "please say something nice about us today to a
friend of yours." That appeal has worked as I get calls (that day) saying
"Joe Smith told me about your system and I had some questions."
We also call a certain demographic of our customer base from time to time to
ask them questions and to ask them to recommend prospects to us... whom we
will contact directly.
It's all about marketing, service, and solving needs. It's not about
leading-edge technology or wiz-bang features.
Al
Rom
Adams-Blake Company <atakeou...@adams-blaketakeout.com>
> service was good. I put the order in around noon on Wed. and so far have not
> heard back,
What shareware authors can learn from "Adams-Blake Company" is the speed of service that is expected from customers these days.
It can be they are willing to pay more ... if the get the product immediately?
Rom
Steve Lee
> OK, I know that mistakes happen. But come on folks. This is a "high tech"
> company. Just how freakin' hard would is it to put an edit in their PHP
> code to check if the URL is formatted correctly when the customer enters it?
> I'll tell you how hard... NOT VERY.
>
Maybe they have never had anyone do this before. For that reason they may not
have considered it. Or they have considered it but it is a low priority.
> Would I recommend SubmitFire to anyone? No I wouldn't because I think they
> have very lax quality control and equally lax customer support.
>
I don't see that. I think you are being too harsh. You actually created much
of this situation yourself remember.
> As I understand
> it, they are owned by a larger corporation called Coffee Cup?
>
Run by a guy who failed to reply to emails and did not return phone calls I
made in direct response to a promotion he did at an SIC a few years ago. Makes
you wonder why he bothered spending the money in the first place.
> At EDS the mantra was
> "Whatever it takes to please the customer"
>
Hmm... I do not think our Inland Revenue or some local councils would agree.
But maybe they did not specify correctly in the first place.
--
Steve Lee
http://swreg.org - *We can sell your program for as low as 69 cents*
http://getafile.com - *Fast low cost bandwidth from only $1.95 a gigabyte*
Adams-Blake Company
> Adams-Blake wrote,
>
>> OK, I know that mistakes happen. But come on folks. This is a "high tech"
>> company. Just how freakin' hard would is it to put an edit in their PHP
>> code to check if the URL is formatted correctly when the customer enters
>> it? I'll tell you how hard... NOT VERY.
>>
>
> Maybe they have never had anyone do this before. For that reason they may
> not
> have considered it. Or they have considered it but it is a low priority.
>
No way, Sir Knight (or Baron Whatever:-) The entire applicaiton revolves
around the URL that is entered. It is the critical item. Without it the
application is worthless. This would be like your registration company
allowing an alphabetic character or symbol in the credit card number. I find
it hard to believe that this has not happened before.
And even if they don't catch it on the front end, they should at least catch
it on the back-end... similar to when you (SWREG) finds out the card number
is bogus.
>> Would I recommend SubmitFire to anyone? No I wouldn't because I think they
>> have very lax quality control and equally lax customer support.
>>
>
> I don't see that. I think you are being too harsh. You actually created much
> of this situation yourself remember.
>
I'm the customer, I'm the one that they make their livelihood from. It is
THEIR JOB to make sure that the customer gets value received. What would have
happened if I had never checked up on this for a month... or ever? Because
they had no way of knowing that the URL was never submitted, I would have
been ripped off.
I'm not saying that these guys are crooks because that is not the case. But
they need a few lessons in customer service as well as QC.
>> As I understand
>> it, they are owned by a larger corporation called Coffee Cup?
>>
>
> Run by a guy who failed to reply to emails and did not return phone calls I
> made in direct response to a promotion he did at an SIC a few years ago.
> Makes you wonder why he bothered spending the money in the first place.
>
Well, after my experience with them, I'm not surprised. There is an old saying
in law (I once attended law school) When you are working to cement a deal or
contract with another party "The way they are before the deal, is how they
will be after.")
>> At EDS the mantra was
>> "Whatever it takes to please the customer"
>>
>
> Hmm... I do not think our Inland Revenue or some local councils would agree.
> But maybe they did not specify correctly in the first place.
>
Our IRS has gotten much more customer oriented after the Republicans (and some
Democrats) hauled the agency's ass up on TV during a long investigation and
showed some of the abuses in 1995 (I think.) Since then they've been a much
easier agency to deal with for the small business like me.
ANC
Gawnsoft
<atakeou...@adams-blaketakeout.com> wrote (more or less):
>Steve Lee wrote:
>
>> Adams-Blake wrote,
>>> At EDS the mantra was
>>> "Whatever it takes to please the customer"
>>>
>>
>> Hmm... I do not think our Inland Revenue or some local councils would agree.
>> But maybe they did not specify correctly in the first place.
>>
>
>Our IRS has gotten much more customer oriented after the Republicans (and some
>Democrats) hauled the agency's ass up on TV during a long investigation and
>showed some of the abuses in 1995 (I think.) Since then they've been a much
>easier agency to deal with for the small business like me.
I think you've misunderstood Steve there Al.
Steve, IMO, was pointing out that the Inland Revenue and local
councils would disbelieve that EDS' mantra was "Whatever it takes to
please the customer".
Because they are customers of EDS, and they are very far from pleased.
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
J French
<xlu...@users.sourceforge.remove.this.antispam.net> wrote:
<snip>
>
>Steve, IMO, was pointing out that the Inland Revenue and local
>councils would disbelieve that EDS' mantra was "Whatever it takes to
>please the customer".
>
>Because they are customers of EDS, and they are very far from pleased.
To be fair Ross Perot sold out of EDS years ago
- companies generally decline when decephelated
Adams-Blake Company
>>Because they are customers of EDS, and they are very far from pleased.
>
> To be fair Ross Perot sold out of EDS years ago
> - companies generally decline when decephelated
Oh. I didn't know that EDS had a contract with the British government.
And you are right about the current EDS vs. the one I joined in 1974. In '74
it was a company of about 3,000 total, but 2000 of them were accountants,
data center workers (tape handlers, console watchers, etc.) and
infrastructure maintainers (managers, secretaries, etc.) while there were
about 1000 system engineers (SEs) like myself.
Ross patterned the company after the US Marine Corps.... a few good men and
all that jazz. Many (most) of those hired were straight from the military and
had no IT background at all. EDS put ALL new hires into a SE Development
program (we were called "SEDs..... ess eee dees". You spent about 8 months on
an account learning how to do analysis, industrial engineering, customer
service, troubleshooting, and basic "go-fer" things for the client. No
programming at all. I was "posted" to the Blue Shield health insurance
account in San Francisco. After about 8 months (sometimes longer, sometimes
shorter) you were transfered to Dallas for 4 months where you attended
intense programming classes.... and I mean *** intense***... class was 8
hours a day for 5 days a week and there was 3 hours of homework EACH night
and just about everyone studied or worked on Saturday and most of Sunday.
Before this, I'd been to two pretty good schools ... (U. of Virginia, College
of William and Mary) and had degrees from each, but nothing was as difficult
as the EDS school... and the wash-out rate was about 30% (they found other
jobs in the company for those who did not "pass" and they did everything they
could to keep people IN the SED program... but programming the EDS way was
just not for some folks.)
Back then EDS programmed EVERYTHING in IBM ALC. They taught you how computers
really work and not just a language. They had the best teachers I've ever
studied with and a curriculum that was brilliant. No text books. It was all
"in-class" from the teacher-to-the-student methodology. You learned
programming... by programming.... short but very hard projects.... each one
teaching you a different methodology (the EDS way of doing things.) The
hardest thing for most folks to learn was IBM JCL, and not assembler. There
was also a few weeks of COBOL but just an overview as some accounts were
using it. Oh, you also did a few projects with punch cards.... because that
was the "real world" for some of their accounts.... Jeez, I'm old... but not
as old as Ed Guy!!!!!! :-)
When you got out of "boot camp" you really felt that you "knew a lot of stuff"
and your ego was huge.... until they posted you to an account (you got a
choice... I went back to San Francisco). When you got there they gave you a
"live" system to maintain and you realized you didn't know squat and that the
senior guys had to teach you how things were done in the real world. .. and
that was part of THEIR job for six to eight months.
After your apprenticeship, they conferred upon you the title of SE... and it
was a "big day" in everyone's life. Your group took you to lunch or drinks
after work and you went from being a "plebe" to "one of the few good men."
You got a small raise and were then a part of the "officer corps" if you know
what I mean. Of course you continued to take classes as EDS had the best
in-house training system I've ever seen.
This was a great program. In 18-20 months you got the equivalent of a Ph.D in
computer science. Back then people who came through the program were the most
sought-after hires in the industry. On day-one after getting my SE
designation, my phone rang with offers of salary increases of 20 or 30
percent. (The "promotion list" was one of the most sought-after documents in
the DP recruiter industry.)
That was EDSs major mistake. They didn't pay people what they were worth and
used the "military" ethos of "god, country, and apple pie" as means to
persuade people to stay. The recruiters knew this. Other companies,
especially in the budding Silicon Valley started bidding for these talents
and it wasn't until after (long after) EDS lost many of its best and
brightest that they got smart and revamped their salary schedule.
I stayed for a few years until a company called Four Phase made me an offer I
could not refuse (I was recruited by a former EDS manager whom I really
liked). They gave me a 50% raise, an office of my own, and a real vacation
plan (at EDS everyone worked 24/7/365!!) I stayed with Four Phase for 10
months and saw how contractors were making the big bucks ($15 an hour) and I
printed up some business cards and wrote a new "resume" and sent it out to a
few companies. Ten days later a guy at National Semiconductor called and
asked if I could do a contract there for $18 an hour and 48 hours later I was
in the consulting business.... which I've now been in for 25 years... doin'
the same thing.... about 30 hours a week of programming, analysis,
"we-gotta-make-this-work" stuff (except now I get $100 an hour!!) The balance
of the week is on other business projects (my very expensive wife helps run
the publishing company as well as the JAYA123 web service... I use a lot of
contractors too.).
I credit ALL my technical abilities and my business success to EDS. I was a
stupid 26 year old kid (former grade school teacher after college) when I
went in and when I came out, I was an educated businessman. My dream has
always been to get a large grant and start an EDS-like company with
inner-city kids or maybe in a developing nation. The discipline that was
enforced on us and the high expectations that were expected of us were the
keys to success in the program and I think it could be duplicated. The only
problem with the "inner city" approach is that EDS only hired really bright
people to begin with.... with good academic skills .... they really liked to
hire music (band) majors. It wasn't so much "grades" it was "smarts." and the
ability to work on a team... like the band... or the military.
If any youngsters are reading this, don't discount the possibility of joining
a large company that has a good internal training program (IBM, GE, etc.) You
might hate every minute of it... but when you come out, you will be worth so
much more on the job market.
OK, one Ross Perot story (I have many). For part of my time as a SED, I was
Ross's assistant. Not a glamour job... just a go-fer. He called me "little
fella" as I was about the only person in the company shorter than he was. We
used to talk all the time about stuff and I learned a lot. I once went into
his office and said, "Ross, how do you sell EDS services?"
In his twangy Texan accent he said, "Well, little fella, what we do is go in
to the client's office, and start talkin' at 'em. And we talk and talk and
talk. We take 'em to a nice lunch and talk some more. In the afternoon, we
show 'em some flip charts and talk more. At the end of the day they are so
plumb tuckered out that they sign right there on the dotted line."
I asked "Well, Ross is that the best way to sell things?"
He replied. "Son, if the good lord had intended Texans to ski, he would have
made bullshit white."
It was a life lesson for me.
I know, I know. This bored most of you to tears. But it brought back good
memories to me.
ANC
***
JAYA123 - the new web-based total-office system for the
small biz. Order entry, billing, bookkeeping, etc. for $14.95
a month. Everyone says "It's cool as a moose!!"
See why at:http://www.jaya123.com
***
J French
<atakeou...@adams-blaketakeout.com> wrote:
<snip>
>He replied. "Son, if the good lord had intended Texans to ski, he would have
>made bullshit white."
Al, store these posts for posterity
- that was something that would fit into 'Plain Tales from the Raj'
Without joking, first hand anecdotes/experience are/is easily lost
Steve Lee
> I know, I know. This bored most of you to tears. But it brought back good
> memories to me.
>
Not at all- it was interesting.
Steve Lee
> decephelated
>
Nice word!
What does it mean?
Adams-Blake Company
> J wrote,
>
>> decephelated
>>
>
> Nice word!
>
> What does it mean?
>
> --
I think it means "when you lose your cephel."
ANC
Sally
"Steve Lee" <st...@swreg.org> wrote in message
news:VA.000086d...@swreg.org...
> > decephelated
> Nice word!
>
> What does it mean?
--
Tony Lacy
Tony...@Nu-Ware.com
http://www.Nu-Ware.com
Association of Shareware Professionals developer member
http://www.asp-shareware.org/
dk_sz
> memories to me.
I liked it. I grade your newspost to be an A+ :-).
best regards
Thomas Schulz
J French
>J wrote,
>
>> decephelated
>>
>
>Nice word!
>
>What does it mean?
Having its head removed - or more accurately brain
It's quite interesting watching what happens to successful companies
when the founder leaves the scene.
Ace Icons
Thanks for posting it, Al.
--
Susan Pichotta
Ace Icons www.aceicons.com
San Antonio, Texas
"Adams-Blake Company" <atakeou...@adams-blaketakeout.com> wrote in
message news:103f3q0...@news20.forteinc.com...
ed
> It was a life lesson for me.
>
> I know, I know. This bored most of you to tears. But it brought back good
> memories to me.
It's the kind of history that is too soon forgotten. Was Perot one of the
people who "spun off" from IBM because of commission limitations?
For the younger set: IBM used to limit the annual commission which a
salesman could earn in a year. This meant that the hot shots had no
incentive to do IBM work for the chunk of the year after they'd hit their
limit - so they followed their own interests and often set up their own
companies.
IBM was a great management training ground (as were some other companies).
In Canada it was noticeable about ten years ago when they started their
downsizing that a lot of people took their settlements and rolled them into
entrepreneurial operations. For a while it seemed that every new Canadian
Tire (high volume auto accessory and hardware stores) franchise was bought
by a laid off IBM manager.
--
Ed Guy P.Eng,CDP,MIEE
Information Technology Consultant
http://www.guysoftware.com
"Check out HELLLP!, WinHelp author tool for WinWord 2.0 through 8.0,
PlanBee Project Management Planning System
and ParseRat, the File Parser, Converter and Reorganizer"
tqk01
>> their PHP code to check if the URL is formatted correctly when the
>> customer enters it? I'll tell you how hard... NOT VERY.
>
> Maybe they have never had anyone do this before. For that reason they
> may not have considered it. Or they have considered it but it is a
> low priority.
There's no excuse for omitting or placing at low priority the requirement
to properly validate user input if for no other reason than to prevent
malicious input from exploiting future security holes.