Stavatti Corp./"F-26 STALMA"

[Andreas Parsch]

Hello,

I have stumbled (again) across the website of the "Stavatti Corporation"
(see <http://www.stavatti.com/>), which claims to have designed a fighter
they call "F-26 STALMA" (<http://www.stavatti.com/F26/f-26.html>). I have
seen a drawing of this a/c a year or two ago, and thought is was a
joke/design study/whatever, but nothing serious. This time, I looked a bit
closer, and Stavatti at least tries to make this thing look serious.

Anyway, has anyone some background on Stavatti and/or the "F-26"?
- Is this a serious aerospace company with a viable product?
- Is that an (advanced) prank by some folks who like to make things up?
- Is that one of the many endeavours which try to look important, but which
will never come up with anything to show?

TIA
Andreas

[Drewe Manton]

It's a nice enough idea. . but I don't buy it for a second, it's more like
dreaming aloud than a real project. And who gave it the YF-26 designation?
Isn't that a DOD prerogative? And I've seen nothing about the aircraft from
offical sources, this web page appears to be it!
It'll never fly, I'd bet on it.
--

Regards
Drewe
"Better the pride that resides
in a citizen of the world
than the pride that divides
when a colourful rag is unfurled"

"Andreas Parsch" <apa...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:3CCEA86C...@gmx.net...

[hikari]

I have seen F-26 flying in Groom Lake.

[Andreas Parsch]

Drewe Manton wrote:

> It's a nice enough idea. . but I don't buy it for a second, it's more like
> dreaming aloud than a real project. And who gave it the YF-26 designation?
> Isn't that a DOD prerogative?

Somewhere on the site it's said that the "F-26" designator (and any
variants) are assigned by the company, and unrelated to the DOD'd designations.

> And I've seen nothing about the aircraft from
> offical sources, this web page appears to be it!
> It'll never fly, I'd bet on it.

I won't bet against that :-)

Andreas

[Andreas Parsch]

hikari wrote:

> I have seen F-26 flying in Groom Lake.
>

Yeah, sure. I bet you haven't even seen Groom Lake, let alone any aircraft
flying there.

And I thought my question was "troll-proof" - silly me.

Andreas

[Keith Willshaw]

"Andreas Parsch" <apa...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:3CCEA86C...@gmx.net...

> Hello,
>
> I have stumbled (again) across the website of the "Stavatti Corporation"
> (see <http://www.stavatti.com/>), which claims to have designed a fighter
> they call "F-26 STALMA" (<http://www.stavatti.com/F26/f-26.html>). I have
> seen a drawing of this a/c a year or two ago, and thought is was a
> joke/design study/whatever, but nothing serious. This time, I looked a bit
> closer, and Stavatti at least tries to make this thing look serious.
>
> Anyway, has anyone some background on Stavatti and/or the "F-26"?
> - Is this a serious aerospace company with a viable product?

I doubt it, there's nothing on the web site but 3CGI images

It looks like there is a small company at the address they give who
market flight cases for drums.

> - Is that an (advanced) prank by some folks who like to make things up?
> - Is that one of the many endeavours which try to look important, but
which
> will never come up with anything to show?
>
> TIA
> Andreas
>

Take your pick but they also claim to make

Single Stage Launch Vehicles
. Multi-Stage Launch Vehicles
. ICBMs
. IRBMs
. SLBMs
. ABMs
. Aerospace Transports
. Tactical Aerospace Fighters
. Interplanetary Space Vehicles
. Spacestations and orbital platforms

Here are a few snippages gleaned from their website

They want foreign customers

"6) Stavatti aerospace defense programs must provide for the strategic and
tactical survival of all potential customers regardless of customer needs as
specified. If necessary, during a state of armed conflict, Stavatti will
provide a means by which allied customers in a condition of dire need may
procure and/or acquire essential Stavatti weapon systems at significantly
reduced cost. The defense industry is not about revenues, but winning wars
and saving lives."

But those dammed foreigners have to pay in greenbacks

"18) Stavatti accepts only the U.S. dollar, gold or negotiated barter as the
approved form of contractual compensation. Foreign currencies are not to be
accepted. Barter is not acceptable as more than 66% of a goods equivalent
payment, unless the barter involves the acquisition of equivalent offset.
Cash and coinage is always the desirable form of monetary compensation.
Stavatti does not accept American ExpressT. "

So they'll take potatoes but not Swiss Francs in Payment

"19) Stavatti and Stavatti customers must demonstrate a willingness to
accept risk. "

Yeah I'll bet their customers have to be risk takers all right,
especially since they have to pay up front in cash or gold.

Personally I think the clue is in the home page

"Fantastic Aircraft for Pilots
Superior Weapons for the Warfighter"

Fantasy being the appropriate word

Keith

[Andreas Parsch]

Keith Willshaw wrote:

>
> Here are a few snippages gleaned from their website
>

> [...]

Thanks, Keith.

I stumbled over all this, too, and had the same thoughts as you, but just
wanted to get a second opinion ;-).

Anyway, what amused me most, was the dictator-like power of the CEO:

"1) The Stavatti President (and/or Chief Executive Officer) must be
delegated complete control of the corporation, in all aspects. The President
must serve as program manager for all Stavatti programs, maintaining total
authority in terms of creativity, specifications, design, technical,
finance, schedule, qualification, production, sales, marketing and
operational matters. It is essential that the President has the ability and
authority not only to serve as a corporate leader and chief engineer, but
can implement quick decisions that forward the strategic goals of the
corporation. The Factory is the Presidents Office."

And when reading this snippet ...

"16) Access by outsiders, Communists and religious cultists to Stavatti
programs, program offices, facilities and personnel must be strictly
controlled."

... I thought someone forgot to update and replace "Communist" by
"Terrorist" ;-).

Again, thanks for ahving a look at the website.

Andreas

[Sebastian Palm]

Quote from the tech specs:

(http://www.stavatti.com/F26/downloads/F-26air_weapon_review.pdf)

[...]
An optional dorsal spline mounted radar/IR boresighted, computer guided
and actuated, fully articulated, retractable rearward facing chain gun
deployable to airspeeds of 300 kts is available. Mounted on a
translating track along the dorsal spline, the M230 chain gun integrates
into a rear fuselage compartment when unused. The chain gun was
integrated to enhance survivability as indicated during aggressor
exercises at NAS Miramar.

[...]

Make of this what you will.

SP

[Drewe Manton]

"Sebastian Palm" <sebasti...@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:aamj14$c1qj5$1...@ID-109805.news.dfncis.de...

> Quote from the tech specs:
>
> (http://www.stavatti.com/F26/downloads/F-26air_weapon_review.pdf)
>
> [...]
> An optional dorsal spline mounted radar/IR boresighted, computer guided
> and actuated, fully articulated, retractable rearward facing chain gun
> deployable to airspeeds of 300 kts is available. Mounted on a
> translating track along the dorsal spline, the M230 chain gun integrates
> into a rear fuselage compartment when unused. The chain gun was
> integrated to enhance survivability as indicated during aggressor
> exercises at NAS Miramar.
>
> [...]
>
>
> Make of this what you will.
>

Errrr. . total bollocks is what I make of it! Anyone else? :) The whole
advertising spiel seem to play out like one long April fools joke. Next
they'll be telling the pilot has a small dustbin shaped robot mounted behind
his head and a revolution in aerdynamics called the S-foil!

[Keith Willshaw]

"Drewe Manton" <dr...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:aampeq$c58uc$1...@ID-121813.news.dfncis.de...

>
> "Sebastian Palm" <sebasti...@swipnet.se> wrote in message
> news:aamj14$c1qj5$1...@ID-109805.news.dfncis.de...
> > Quote from the tech specs:
> >
> > (http://www.stavatti.com/F26/downloads/F-26air_weapon_review.pdf)
> >
> > [...]
> > An optional dorsal spline mounted radar/IR boresighted, computer guided
> > and actuated, fully articulated, retractable rearward facing chain gun
> > deployable to airspeeds of 300 kts is available. Mounted on a
> > translating track along the dorsal spline, the M230 chain gun integrates
> > into a rear fuselage compartment when unused. The chain gun was
> > integrated to enhance survivability as indicated during aggressor
> > exercises at NAS Miramar.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> > Make of this what you will.
> >
>
> Errrr. . total bollocks is what I make of it! Anyone else? :) The whole
> advertising spiel seem to play out like one long April fools joke. Next
> they'll be telling the pilot has a small dustbin shaped robot mounted
behind
> his head and a revolution in aerdynamics called the S-foil!
> --

The interesting thing is that a little digging establishes that there
really is a Stavatti Corporation trading out of a small industrial
unit at 520 Airport Road South St. Paul, MN 55075

They are listed as tenants by the local better business bureau
and are listed as sales agents for a company that sells flight cases
for musical instruments and also as a dealer for armalite rifles !

http://www.armalite.com/ASPs/dealerSearch/dealerQueryReturn.asp?searchType=s
tate&state=MN

I think we have stumbled on the aerospace version of a dot com

[JT]

My one concern with all of this (although it does look like a very
interesting concept) is that with the JSF production, and the
international support for the JSF, who will buy this? To make matters
worse, I read that their projected fly-away cost is almost the same as
for the JSF. If, for instance the price was more like $15-20 million,
some countries that want an advanced aircraft, but can't quite afford
the JSF, may opt to go for this one. Maybe they need to lower the
price to make this into a realistic prospect.

-----JT-----

Andreas Parsch <apa...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:<3CCEA86C...@gmx.net>...

[Nate Meier]

"Keith Willshaw" <keith_w...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:1020180058.19382....@news.demon.co.uk...

Yeah, and 3/4 of the links don't work either. I guess their graphics boy
hasn't been putting his hours in...

Nate

[Tom Schoene]

"JT" <va...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e73b3988.0204...@posting.google.com...

> My one concern with all of this (although it does look like a very
> interesting concept) is that with the JSF production, and the
> international support for the JSF, who will buy this?

Presumably the sort of countries that are interested in light
strike/advanced trainer aircraft like the Mako and T-50. But you're right
that the price woudl have to be much lower than JSF. And it woudl have to
comete with companies that have demonstrated their ability to build such
planes.

To make matters
> worse, I read that their projected fly-away cost is almost the same as
> for the JSF. If, for instance the price was more like $15-20 million,
> some countries that want an advanced aircraft, but can't quite afford
> the JSF, may opt to go for this one. Maybe they need to lower the
> price to make this into a realistic prospect.

They also need some indication that they have the skills, wherewithal, and
resources to translate CAD drawings into reality. I wouldn't not expect a
company with no track record and no practical experience to be able to
successfully sell a general aviation airplane on their first try, much less
an advanced combat aircraft.

--
Tom Schoene (replace "invalid" with "net" to email)
We must welcome the future, remembering that soon it will be the
past; and we must respect the past, knowing that once it was all that
was humanly possible. - George Santayana

[Martin Hibbs]

Keith Willshaw wrote:
>
> "Andreas Parsch" <apa...@gmx.net> wrote in message

<SNIP>

Hmmmm.....

Do I smell fried rice? What are the odds that it is a PLA collection
effort?

Marty...

[Tom Schoene]

"Martin Hibbs" <mhi...@ipeg.com> wrote in message
news:3CCF43F5...@ipeg.com...

>
> Do I smell fried rice? What are the odds that it is a PLA collection
> effort?

Pretty long. They don't seem to be asking for anything except money.

[Keith Willshaw]

"Martin Hibbs" <mhi...@ipeg.com> wrote in message
news:3CCF43F5...@ipeg.com...
>
>
>

>

> Do I smell fried rice? What are the odds that it is a PLA collection
> effort?
>
> Marty...

At a guess a big fat zero

All they want is your money, cash please no cheques

Keith

[Martin Hibbs]

Tom Schoene wrote:
>
> "Martin Hibbs" <mhi...@ipeg.com> wrote in message
> news:3CCF43F5...@ipeg.com...
> >
> > Do I smell fried rice? What are the odds that it is a PLA collection
> > effort?
>
> Pretty long. They don't seem to be asking for anything except money.

Tom,

Take a look at how illicit technology transfers (fancy name for stealing
stuff and sending it home) are made these days. This looks like a
classic example and, it is one of the ways the PLA operates.

Marty...

[Tom Schoene]

"Martin Hibbs" <mhi...@ipeg.com> wrote in message

news:3CCF8FEB...@ipeg.com...

Care to point to a similar example?

These guys are such obvious crackpots that no one is going to deal with them
on anything remotely sensitive.

[robert arndt]

One German site claimed the plane was real and that it costs $26
million per copy. Supposedly, the F-26 will have IOC by 2004.

This is utter nonsense. The CGI of the aircraft makes it look like a
ficticious Playstation game aircraft from Ace Combat...X!

Rob

P.S. What the hell does STALMA mean anyway???

[Stephen FPilot Bierce]

teut...@aol.com (robert arndt) wrote:

>P.S. What the hell does STALMA mean anyway???

Acronym for STAvatti Light Military Aircraft. Rather cheesy in my opinion.

Stephen "FPilot" Bierce
IPMS #35922/Rosa Maeroris
"I'm an otaku with wings. I'm also a broke otaku, so it's a Phyrric victory at best."--Tepid 6:11

[Drewe Manton]

Sounded like a skin complaint to me. . .
"What's that growth thingy on his arm?"
"Oh that, that's a Stalma, pretty benign but still disfiguring"

--

Regards
Drewe
"Better the pride that resides
in a citizen of the world
than the pride that divides
when a colourful rag is unfurled"

"Stephen "FPilot" Bierce" <sbi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3cd17f1d...@news.vic.com...

[Prowlus]

"Tom Schoene" <tasc...@starpower.invalid> wrote in message
news:aancmc$5kl$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...

personally I don't see any nation stupid enough to buy a fighter plane that
looks like it was designned from a either a disgruntled Macross artist or
Lucasarts
>

[Randy Haskin]

sbi...@hotmail.com (Stephen "FPilot" Bierce) wrote in message news:<3cd17f1d...@news.vic.com>...

> teut...@aol.com (robert arndt) wrote:
>
> >P.S. What the hell does STALMA mean anyway???
>
> Acronym for STAvatti Light Military Aircraft. Rather cheesy in my opinion.

According to their website in question, it actually means "Short
Takeoff Advanced Light Multi-role Aircraft (STALMA)."

[Nick Pedley]

"Drewe Manton" <dr...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:aamagq$c2ne4$1...@ID-121813.news.dfncis.de...

> It's a nice enough idea. . but I don't buy it for a second, it's more
like
> dreaming aloud than a real project. And who gave it the YF-26 designation?
> Isn't that a DOD prerogative? And I've seen nothing about the aircraft
from
> offical sources, this web page appears to be it!
> It'll never fly, I'd bet on it.
> --

Have you seen their 'Machete' aircraft via the link at the bottom of the
page?
My first reaction was it lookied like a plane I drew in junior school, and I
think it would collapse on the ground being so unbalanced!!!

And as for the 'Message from the President', well. He talks of Mach 12 recon
planes reminding the PRC their military buildup was being monitored :o)
As for being one of four remaining prime defense contractors, what have they
been contracted for? Fantastic artwork for websites?
http://www.stavatti.com/pix/emblems/saws.jpg

Nick

[Drewe Manton]

"Nick Pedley" <nichola...@npedley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aauect$lnp$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

This whole thing just has to be a joke right? Okay. . which RAM regular is
on the wind-up trail? :)

[Pete]

"Drewe Manton" <dr...@btinternet.com> wrote

>
> This whole thing just has to be a joke right? Okay. . which RAM regular
is
> on the wind-up trail? :)
> --

Whoever it is, they went to an awful lot of work. Well beyond some fanciful
3D graphics.

Pete

[Drewe Manton]

"Pete" <p...@usaf.com> wrote in message
news:i2EA8.43809$Ez5.10...@typhoon.neo.rr.com...

Yeah, but we got some warped peeps in here!

[Peter Stickney]

In article <aavaq2$dpgs9$1...@id-121813.news.dfncis.de>,

"Drewe Manton" <dr...@btinternet.com> writes:
>
> "Pete" <p...@usaf.com> wrote in message
> news:i2EA8.43809$Ez5.10...@typhoon.neo.rr.com...
>>
>> "Drewe Manton" <dr...@btinternet.com> wrote
>> >
>> > This whole thing just has to be a joke right? Okay. . which RAM
> regular
>> is
>> > on the wind-up trail? :)
>> > --
>>
>> Whoever it is, they went to an awful lot of work. Well beyond some
> fanciful
>> 3D graphics.
>
>
> Yeah, but we got some warped peeps in here!

It looks to me like somebody's been taking their Japanese Giant
Robot/Transformer Toy Caroones (Anime? is that what it is?) a bit too
seriously. Are you sure you haven't stumbles into somebody's fantasy
game world? Even those 2 Enzedders who came up with the over-fanciful
ADDAX in the late '70s would find this scarcely credible.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Tom Schoene]

"Peter Stickney" <p-sti...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:qhd0ba...@Mineshaft.att.net...

> Even those 2 Enzedders who came up with the over-fanciful
> ADDAX in the late '70s would find this scarcely credible.

Speaking of ADDAX, I came across some drawings of the idea recently.
Interesting, in a silly sort of way. (Great fodder for games...) Does
anyone know what the claimed performance of the two designs was? All I
remember is that one was subsonic and one was, allegedly, supersonic. A web
search turned up lots of animal web sites, but nothing about the aircraft.

[D. Scott Ferrin]

On Sat, 4 May 2002 13:05:03 -0400, "Tom Schoene"
<tasc...@starpower.invalid> wrote:

>
>"Peter Stickney" <p-sti...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:qhd0ba...@Mineshaft.att.net...
>> Even those 2 Enzedders who came up with the over-fanciful
>> ADDAX in the late '70s would find this scarcely credible.
>
>Speaking of ADDAX, I came across some drawings of the idea recently.
>Interesting, in a silly sort of way. (Great fodder for games...) Does
>anyone know what the claimed performance of the two designs was? All I
>remember is that one was subsonic and one was, allegedly, supersonic. A web
>search turned up lots of animal web sites, but nothing about the aircraft.

Anybody remember the Phalanx Dragon? Suppose to offer a similar
design of various sizes to fill the LHX (Comanche), ATF (F-22), and
several other programs. Was suppose to be VTOL in all versions and go
Mach 2.5. There was even a little dinky Coors Silver Bullet sized
version that could fold up the wings and be transported in a crate
just in case the HUMVEE broke.

[Peter Stickney]

In article <ab14e2$che$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>,

"Tom Schoene" <tasc...@starpower.invalid> writes:
>
> "Peter Stickney" <p-sti...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:qhd0ba...@Mineshaft.att.net...
>> Even those 2 Enzedders who came up with the over-fanciful
>> ADDAX in the late '70s would find this scarcely credible.
>
> Speaking of ADDAX, I came across some drawings of the idea recently.
> Interesting, in a silly sort of way. (Great fodder for games...) Does
> anyone know what the claimed performance of the two designs was? All I
> remember is that one was subsonic and one was, allegedly, supersonic. A web
> search turned up lots of animal web sites, but nothing about the aircraft.

I've got the old Air International that had the article about the
ADDAX in it. I'll try to excavate it at th soonest possible moment.