It's a dessert topping *and* a UL!
Robert Warinner
week:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010309.html
Cecil pretty much strikes out with this column. He comes up with
following entry in the M*tt* C*nt*st:
Pops, now deceased, was an eyewitness but didn't say whether he'd
partaken of the brains himself. Possibly he was jerking his kid
around, but I've heard enough similar stories to make me think this
is legit.
Cecil did dredge up two monkey brain consumption cites from Indonesia,
both second-hand. The first, from a taxi driver no less, just says
'monkey meat is good. The brains are eaten raw...'.
The second is pretty much the prototypical monkey-brain-eating
scenario:
The monkey's head was supported by its neck in a bracket, two pieces
of wood with a semicircular hole on each side such that when you put
them together, they form a complete circle around the animal's neck,
allowing the head to be exposed above the plank. The hair around the
head is shaven with a shaving razor. A small chisel and a hammer is
used to quickly chisel a circle around the crown, and the top part
of the skull is removed. A teaspoon is used to scoop up the brain,
which is immediately eaten. This has to be done before the monkey
dies.
It's interesting that the above scenario is almost identical to the
infamous monkey scene in the movie 'Faces of Death':
0:21:14 Intro to famous monkey brain scene. Belly dancer performs in
dining adventure." Waiter brings wine and "special dining
implements."
0:22:42 Waiter carries screaming monkey to table, puts it in hole in
the center, clamped around the neck.
0:23:10 Diners get their hammers ready. Long shot of table. Monkey's
head is turning round and round. [Kind of like a fake monkey head on
a turntable or something.]
0:23:31 Diners hammer monkey. Most camera angles don't actually show
monkey's head. 2 quick shots of hammers touching head, not hitting
hard. One shot from under the table. [I'm sure the diners didn't
mind having a cameraman under there.]
0:23:45 Waiter cuts head open. [Probably fake - monkey's face looks
like rubber.] Diners spoon out and eat monkey brain. [Well,
something that looks like raw brain, anyway.]
[Looks to me like the famous monkey scene is faked. There are
several cuts between the time the waiter puts a live monkey in the
table and the hammering. Several camera angles are used, with two
close-up shots during hammering. This would be difficult to do
without interrupting the action, or a second cameraman appearing in
the long shots.]
http://www.urbanlegends.com/movies/faces_of_death_review.html
Thanks to Larry Doering for the masterful dissection of 'Faces of
Death.'
Note that the 'Faces of Death' monkey consumption presumably happened
in a Middle Eastern restaurant, not Indonesia.
I do have a vague memory of an intrepid AFU correspondent (Brian
Yeoh?) obtaining a menu listing monkey brains as a dish, though not
consumed in the manner described above. DejaGoogle is no help, can
someone be more vague?
Andrew "what's for dinner?" Warinner
wari...@xnet.com
http://home.xnet.com/~warinner
Urban Legend Zeitgeist: http://www.urbanlegends.com/ulz/
Ray Depew
[Unca Cece takes on monkey brains and loses]
I just had an idea. Maybe the Chinese eat something called "monkey brains"
but it isn't really monkey brains? You know, like the Italian pasta dish
"paglia e fieno", which is made not of "hay and straw" but of two different
colored noodles? A menu of favorite foods at the Depew household includes
the following:
monkey bread
frog eye salad
porcupine meatballs
grasshopper pie
chocolate mousse
lady fingers
No porcupines, frogs, grasshoppers, monkeys, moose, mice or ladies are used
as ingredients in the preparation or consumption of these delicacies.
--
Regards
Ray "don't let it get on your jeans" Depew
Charles Wm. Dimmick
What about toad-in-the-hole?
Toasted English?
French Fried?
Hot Danish?
Hot Dog?
Charles D.
Jacqui or (maybe) Pete
<wari...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
>Cecil Adams delves into the 'Chinese eat monkey brains' rumor this
>week:
Surely it's not too unlikely? I've often eaten (cooked) calves
brains, and I've seen people eating live fish & lobsters (turned my
stomach a tad...).
Chris Clarke
<r...@ftc.agilent.com> wrote:
> Robert Warinner (wari...@typhoon.xnet.com) wrote:
> [Unca Cece takes on monkey brains and loses]
>
> I just had an idea. Maybe the Chinese eat something called "monkey brains"
> but it isn't really monkey brains?
There is a Cantonese[1] noodle dish called "Cat's Ears".
Chris "what a letdown when the waiter brought this bowl of noodles to
the table" Clarke
[1] or Cantonese-Californian: encountered it in a place in Monterey
Park.
--
Chris Clarke | National Writers' Union member 132291
ccl...@faultline.org |
Casady
Irish Bunny? Something like that.
Ca's'ady
Ian A. York
Robert Warinner <wari...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
>
>I do have a vague memory of an intrepid AFU correspondent (Brian
>Yeoh?) obtaining a menu listing monkey brains as a dish, though not
>consumed in the manner described above. DejaGoogle is no help, can
>someone be more vague?
KC Chan found, scanned, and made available a Hong Kong newspaper article
about the practice, mit der photos. It was *not* in China, according to
the article, and the general tone of the article was
look-what-these-wierd-furriners do. I can't remember where it was
supposed to have happened--somewhere in Asia. The situation was roughly
the standard; the article was written in Chinese, but my handy-dandy local
translator went through it with me. The photos illustrated the text
accurately.
These possibilities occur to me:
(1) The practice really does occur, somewhere in Asia, but it's rare and
localized.
(2) The newspaper, Weekly World News-like, conducted an elaborate hoax
with set-up photos.
(3) Someone fooled the paper with a hoax article. (I think I recall the
article was not by the regular newspaper, but a far-flung correspondent;
but I may be fooling myself).
(4) Someone fooled the paper with Faces of Death.
The last explanation has just occured to me--did someone take the FoD and
photograph it? But I think that's unlikely.
I think KC said the newspaper is a fairly reputable one, not the
equivalent of Weekly World News; if so, then they likely didn't conduct a
hoax themselves.
They may have been fooled, but I'd have to say the quality seemed pretty
good, if I recall it (mind you, I saw a scanned-in version, in Chinese,
via the WWW: my opinion isn't very reliable).
I dunno, Andrew. I'm leaning toward the "actually happens, but very
rarely" answer.
Ian
--
Ian York (iay...@panix.com) <http://www.panix.com/~iayork/>
"-but as he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a
very respectable Man." -Jane Austen, The History of England
Robert
to find out for myself. Don't worry, I'll bring my Digital camera so I can
post a GIF!.
My Cantonese phrase book doesn't list "monkey" in the menu section, but it
does have dog ("gau yuk"). And for completeness, I can say "I have a yeast
infection"--("ngor yum do faat yim"). Leave it to the Chinese to put "yum"
in a vaginal infection.
K C Chan
>In article <98jjbu$m15$1...@flood.xnet.com>,
>Robert Warinner <wari...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>I do have a vague memory of an intrepid AFU correspondent (Brian
>>Yeoh?) obtaining a menu listing monkey brains as a dish, though not
>>consumed in the manner described above. DejaGoogle is no help, can
>>someone be more vague?
>
>KC Chan found, scanned, and made available a Hong Kong newspaper article
>about the practice, mit der photos. It was *not* in China, according to
>the article, and the general tone of the article was
>look-what-these-wierd-furriners do. I can't remember where it was
>supposed to have happened--somewhere in Asia. The situation was roughly
>the standard; the article was written in Chinese, but my handy-dandy local
>translator went through it with me. The photos illustrated the text
>accurately.
>
handy-dandy? Hmmmm. But many thanks for the translation to Ian.
Anyway, the page is at http://www.iohk.com/UserPages/kcchan/monkey.htm
and describes the eating of monkey brains in China but on the border
with Cambodia, where the monkeys are taken from.
The "Man Han Chun Shi", I have since discovered, is a famous banquet
prepared for the Emperor mumblety-years ago. It included the most
rare and medicinally life-giving dishes you could possibly eat (note:
chinese believe that there is some sort of medicinal value or affect
on the health from *everything* you eat) such as bear paw, tiger
penis, and monkey brain.
>These possibilities occur to me:
>(1) The practice really does occur, somewhere in Asia, but it's rare and
>localized.
>(2) The newspaper, Weekly World News-like, conducted an elaborate hoax
>with set-up photos.
>(3) Someone fooled the paper with a hoax article. (I think I recall the
>article was not by the regular newspaper, but a far-flung correspondent;
>but I may be fooling myself).
>(4) Someone fooled the paper with Faces of Death.
I honestly think it's No. 1; people have heard of the dish and they go
to this market where it is available, to partake of this part of the
emperor's banquet. It may be self-fulfilling UL in this regard.
What actually convinced me is the photo showing the very, very tiny
brain on a spoon. It's just one mouthful. There's not enough to even
'scoop out'. A faked photo would probably have more voluminous
generically brainy-bits.
>
>The last explanation has just occured to me--did someone take the FoD and
>photograph it? But I think that's unlikely.
Me too. The photos as shown show very little collaboration with the
FOD description.
>
>I think KC said the newspaper is a fairly reputable one, not the
>equivalent of Weekly World News; if so, then they likely didn't conduct a
>hoax themselves.
It's difficult to tell the amount of 'encouragement' provided by the
newspaper; but the monkeys as portrayed in the photos were certainly
freely available at the restaurants for eating.
And never underestimate the Chinese prediliction for eating exotica.
I Have Heard (tm) that the most common question asked at any zoo in
China, about any animal, is "What does it taste like?"
>
>They may have been fooled, but I'd have to say the quality seemed pretty
>good, if I recall it (mind you, I saw a scanned-in version, in Chinese,
>via the WWW: my opinion isn't very reliable).
>
>I dunno, Andrew. I'm leaning toward the "actually happens, but very
>rarely" answer.
>
>Ian
Me, too. The field trip is on hold for now, but I *will* *get*
*there* one day.
K.C. "Off to Borneo in April instead. Hmm, I may ask about that photo
thing again." Chan
Brian Yeoh
Can we just quickly detour to Spotted Dick and Drowned Baby?
Brian "suet... <shudder>" Yeoh
--
The Royal Navy demonstrates its knowledge of life's _priorities_.
"[...] grant him a pardon for anything save mutiny, sodomy and damaging
the paintwork."
-- Jack Aubrey; Patrick O'Brian; _The Ionian Mission_
RM Mentock
>
> On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
> > What about toad-in-the-hole?
> > Toasted English?
> > French Fried?
> > Hot Danish?
> > Hot Dog?
>
> Can we just quickly detour to Spotted Dick and Drowned Baby?
How about some Shit on a Shingle? And step on it.
--
RM Mentock
panta rhei -- Heraclitis
http://mentock.home.mindspring.com/
Cindy Kandolf
The "ick" factor, and the part that makes people doubt the story, is
the claim that the brains are eaten not just raw but directly from the
monkey's skull, while the monkey is still alive. (How do you open up
the skull of a live, uncooperative monkey without getting the brain
full of bone fragments?) The versions i've heard in the wild have
always included the detail that the diners stop eating as soon as the
monkey dies.
The location claimed for this strange meal varies quite a bit - Hong
Kong, Singapore, "somewhere in China", and the Faces of Death version
placed it in an unidentified Arab country. Such a variation in detail
while the basic story remains the same is a common feature among urban
legends.
- Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak
flodmail: thefl...@ivillage.com flodhome: Bærum, Norway
flodweb: http://www.flodnak.com/
Robert Warinner
: These possibilities occur to me:
: (1) The practice really does occur, somewhere in Asia, but it's rare and
: localized.
: (2) The newspaper, Weekly World News-like, conducted an elaborate hoax
: with set-up photos.
: (3) Someone fooled the paper with a hoax article. (I think I recall the
: article was not by the regular newspaper, but a far-flung correspondent;
: but I may be fooling myself).
: (4) Someone fooled the paper with Faces of Death.
To clarify things a little bit, maybe we need to distinguish between
the variety of monkey brain recipes:
1. Cooked monkey brains
2. Raw drunken monkey brains a la KC Chan's article
3. Raw monkey brains consumed via the table-with-hole-in-the-center
and the 'whack the monkey' preparation routine.
#1 doesn't seem worth a lot of discussion since consumption of animal
brains is unusual but not exceptional and it doesn't have quite the
visceral 'ick' impact of the 'whack the monkey' method.
I'm not sure I'd make the argument that #2 is sufficient proof of
#3. #3 seems pretty firmly ensconced in the mythical past along the
lines of 'Sure, we eat monkey brains, but they used to do it [in some
totally gross way].' For example, the article in question says:
The cook in the inn said that the traditional way to eat monkey
brain, is to seal its mouth and tie it tightly under a special
table, with a hole in the center, and only the monkey's head shows
above. Then the monkey's hair is shaved, the skull is cut open, and
the brain is eaten while it's still alive. Sometimes the monkey's
mouth is not sealed tightly enough, and makes miserable screams or
moans under the table.
Another account of #3 that showed up in the Straight Dope Message Board:
The monkey was suspended in such a way that its feet were just above
a drum. As the diners scooped out the trapped monkey's brain, its
foot would involuntarily strike the drum. The object was to finish
the brain before the monkey's feet stopped striking the drum.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=62740&pagenumber=2
[As an aside, I wonder about this account. As KC has pointed out,
monkeys don't have a lot of brains; one scoop and you're done. So
unless the diners were sampling the main course in extremely small
portions, it's hard to see how the drum contraption would have been
used, aside from physiological doubts about scooping out the brains
would cause the feet to kick.]
I dunno, all I've got is a bunch of facts and allegations that don't
seem to neatly fit together:
- Reports of raw monkey brain consumption from all over the place:
China, Singapore, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Middle East, etc that are
remarkably consistent in the details.
- The obvious xenophobic bent to the raw monkey brain stories. Again,
from KC Chan's article:
According to one of the government officers, they are determined to
protect domestic wild animals, but since this small town is near
Vietnam, lots of the animals are available in markets that have been
smuggled from outside the frontier. They have no reasons to refuse,
and even welcome those animals, the more the better.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it sure seems there's a
xenophobic subtext Kung Shi news article and that leads me to wonder
if there is another explanation for the Kung Shi article between being
a pure hoax and 100% fit to print news.
So while I can't rule out 'The practice really does occur, somewhere
in Asia, but it's rare and localized' hypothesis, I suspect there is a
generous helping of xenophobic folkloric transmission in operation
here, which isn't inconsistent with the hypothesis.
Andrew "tastes like tofu" Warinner
Don Whittington
Well, not so vague but not so easy to prove either...
I've posted before to say that there was an article years ago in Frequent
Flyer Magazine by a food writer who set out over several years to prove
the monkey brains story. This was a man with all the right contacts in
the far east to find such a delicacy if it existed. He failed.
Don "Occam's razor" Whittington
--
This is what goes on while we wait for a legend to
discuss or a clueless newby to savage.---Casady's take on things
Dr H
On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
Huh. Probably no chateaus in the chateaubriand, either.
Then we have oyster stout...
Dr H
Dr H
On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Casady wrote:
}Irish Bunny? Something like that.
Welsh rabbit?
Dr H
Dr H
On 13 Mar 2001, Cindy Kandolf wrote:
}The "ick" factor, and the part that makes people doubt the story, is
}the claim that the brains are eaten not just raw but directly from the
}monkey's skull, while the monkey is still alive. (How do you open up
}the skull of a live, uncooperative monkey without getting the brain
}full of bone fragments?)
You have to use the Dremmel tool with the special vacuum attachment.
Dr H
K C Chan
<wari...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
>
>- The obvious xenophobic bent to the raw monkey brain stories. Again,
> from KC Chan's article:
>
> According to one of the government officers, they are determined to
> protect domestic wild animals, but since this small town is near
> Vietnam, lots of the animals are available in markets that have been
> smuggled from outside the frontier. They have no reasons to refuse,
> and even welcome those animals, the more the better.
>
>Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it sure seems there's a
>xenophobic subtext Kung Shi news article and that leads me to wonder
>if there is another explanation for the Kung Shi article between being
>a pure hoax and 100% fit to print news.
I don't think it's xenophobic as much as ass-covering. Hong Kong
people are aware of the repercussions of eating endangered species,
and are a bit leery about eating them. In this case the article is
saying "It's OK, these weren't Chinese monkeys, because those are
protected."
So we're not eating our lovely protected endangered cute-and-cuddly
monkeys; we're eating the Vietnamese monkeys smuggled by people who
don't know better. "The more the better" suggests that for every
Vietnamese monkey eaten, one of our own cute-and-cuddlies is saved.
It's a monumental degree of moral hair-splitting.
But of course, xenophobia does exist here, and right now there is a
bit of an anti-racism campaign going on in the media. People who have
darker skins, such as Africans, Indians, and Nepalese, which all have
large populations here, complain in the media about the racism
exhibited by local people. There is no law against racism here,
because the government says it doesn't exist, based upon the opinions
of a number of local people they interviewed who said they'd never
been discriminated against.
>
>So while I can't rule out 'The practice really does occur, somewhere
>in Asia, but it's rare and localized' hypothesis, I suspect there is a
>generous helping of xenophobic folkloric transmission in operation
>here, which isn't inconsistent with the hypothesis.
>
>Andrew "tastes like tofu" Warinner
>wari...@xnet.com
>http://home.xnet.com/~warinner
>Urban Legend Zeitgeist: http://www.urbanlegends.com/ulz/
Water tofu tastes like very soft junket.
K.C. "But sweet, cold tofu dessert is YUMMY" Chan
Evan Kirshenbaum
> There is a Cantonese[1] noodle dish called "Cat's Ears".
>
> Chris "what a letdown when the waiter brought this bowl of noodles to
> the table" Clarke
Next time order the "sauteed happy family".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"Revolution" has many definitions.
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |From the looks of this, I'd say
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |"going around in circles" comes
|closest to applying...
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Richard M. Hartman
(650)857-7572
Bruce J Baker
news:98lk8c$mpl$1...@flood.xnet.com...
> 3. Raw monkey brains consumed via the table-with-hole-in-the-center
> and the 'whack the monkey' preparation routine.
The following tale was told at my dinner table by an ex-colleague
We used to work for Dow Chemical (Australia). Neil had plenty of
other fun stories too, as did some of my other ex-colleagues.
On a visit to a chemical plant in China, for which Dow was licensing
the technology, Neil had many interesting culinary experiences (as
chemical plants generally don't get put in places where there is 4 star
accommodation next door). At the end of his project there he and
the other foreign engineers were taken out for a banquet. There was
one foreigner per table. After what Neil thought was quite a good meal
the chefs came out with monkeys on their shoulders. Neil thought that
didn't indicate a very optimistic view could be maintained of the hygiene
levels in the kitchen. After a little parading about the chefs
simultaneously
throttled their monkeys into a state of semi conciousness. The lazy susan
was removed from the centre of each table and a monkey was inserted
from underneath so that the skull was clamped. The tops of the skulls
were simultaneously and abruptly removed by the chefs. The screaming
of the monkeys was unpleasant. The locals proceeded to eat the brains.
Neil left his on the plate when offered some.
Neil's wife commented that he had never told her about that before. He
responded that he really didn't think she wanted to know.
I'll see if I can get him on the phone this weekend and ask him to write
it up with dates & places.
--
Regards,
Bruce J Baker
bjb...@technologist.com
Ian Munro
> The following tale was told at my dinner table by an ex-colleague
> We used to work for Dow Chemical (Australia). Neil had plenty of
> other fun stories too, as did some of my other ex-colleagues.
[snip faces-of-death style monkey brain story]
> I'll see if I can get him on the phone this weekend and ask him to
> write it up with dates & places.
Oh, do. That's when it always gets fun
Ian "'Well, I'm not sure where it was, really...'" Munro
--
"What you're describing would only take place if the body consisted of a
bucket of rather viscous liquid, and aside from a lady I sat beside on a
Greyhound bus once most people don't fit that description."--Ian York
K C Chan
<bjb...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>"Robert Warinner" <wari...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote in message
>news:98lk8c$mpl$1...@flood.xnet.com...
>> 3. Raw monkey brains consumed via the table-with-hole-in-the-center
>> and the 'whack the monkey' preparation routine.
>
<snip canonical monkey-brain story>
>I'll see if I can get him on the phone this weekend and ask him to write
>it up with dates & places.
Bruce, mate, let us know exactly what he says. I wouldn't be
surprised if he starts to equivocate and we're all very familiar with
this sort of reaction.
My bet is that it will immediately turn into a FOAF tale.
I once offered HK$1000 to a table of diners for a first-person
monkey-brain story.
"I ate them" said one guy.
"When and where?" asks me.
"At home. But it wasn't actually me, it was my Mum, and it was before
I was born, anyway, and they weren't raw, they were cooked, and the
monkey wasn't alive. Actually I think she just at the monkey, not the
brains. "
"I ate them" says another woman.
"When and where?" asks me.
"In Guangzhou. At a banquet. They were gross. They were breaded and
deep-fried and served on a tray. At least I think they were monkey
brains. They could have been sheep brains."
K.C. "The stories just get better and better." Chan
a.k.a Fight Club_99
Charles Wm. Dimmick
>
> The Chinese Delicacy is RAT....
Cite?
Charles D.
DEF
> I'm leaning toward the "actually happens, but very rarely" answer.
I'm still falling on the skeptical side: if it ever happens (or happened),
it is done as a novelty to get some print in the "Apple Daily" (or similar
situation). I bet a lot of UL's could be verified first hand for US$100.
Here are three articles from one week in 1998 that universally repeat the
wacky foreigner theme:
Hong Kong report that it is Vietnam/China border folk(Apple Daily 10-21-98)
Cambodian report that it is the Vietnamese (Reuter's 10-22-98)
Indonesian report that it is the Taiwanese (WSJ 10-26-98)
And, from my field collection of reports from many, many Taiwanese friends,
the nearly uniform reply that "Yes, this is real," but only for rich folks
from Hong Kong, Japan or for old-timey rich folks (either Taiwanese or
Chinese depending on the teller's ethnicity). I have heard the "Grandfather
said he did it" a couple of times. Of course we've had a few claims from
Western posters to this group that they saw/did this when they were touring
the Exotic Orient, but they always fail to provide convincing detail.
-Dave
K C Chan
>On 13 Mar 2001 02:06:50 GMT, iay...@panix.com (Ian A. York) wrote:
>
>> I'm leaning toward the "actually happens, but very rarely" answer.
>
>I'm still falling on the skeptical side: if it ever happens (or happened),
>it is done as a novelty to get some print in the "Apple Daily" (or similar
>situation). I bet a lot of UL's could be verified first hand for US$100.
>
>Here are three articles from one week in 1998 that universally repeat the
>wacky foreigner theme:
>
>Hong Kong report that it is Vietnam/China border folk(Apple Daily 10-21-98)
>
<snip>
>-Dave
Off on a tangent, Apple Daily reported that a petrol station in
Canberra, Australia, exploded when somebody used a cell-phone. Ugly
Husband promptly warned me about the danger. He sincerely believed
the report, after all, Apple Daily's main selling point is that it
cuts through the lies to get to the truth. Slogan: "An Apple a Day
Keeps the Lies Away."
I rang my Mum in Canberra and she told me no petrol stations had blown
up. I got back to Ugly Husband and told him but he said that maybe
she hadn't heard about it.
Then he had a bit of a think about it and suffered from a massive
paradigm shift that left him dizzy. I think that's the day that he
first started to appreciate that not everything everybody says in the
papers is necessarily true. And he now appreciates a good UL as much
as any hard-bitten cynical meanyheaded afuer.
K.C. "Who says you can't change your spouse!" Chan
Bruce J Baker
news:jA6wOg0rgG3bZj...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:35:48 GMT, "Bruce J Baker"
> <bjb...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> >"Robert Warinner" <wari...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote in message
> >news:98lk8c$mpl$1...@flood.xnet.com...
> >> 3. Raw monkey brains consumed via the table-with-hole-in-the-center
> >> and the 'whack the monkey' preparation routine.
> >
> <snip canonical monkey-brain story>
>
>
> >I'll see if I can get him on the phone this weekend and ask him to write
> >it up with dates & places.
>
> Bruce, mate, let us know exactly what he says. I wouldn't be
> surprised if he starts to equivocate and we're all very familiar with
> this sort of reaction.
>
> My bet is that it will immediately turn into a FOAF tale.
I was just on the phone to Neil. He's going to write it up. He says it
may take a while to go through the hardcopy of his old mail messages
from Dow to get the details (as he gets distracted re-reading some of
the other classics in there). He says he has forgotten the names of the
other Dow guys who were there (from Taiwan, Netherlands etc).
Hopefully he can find those in the mail messages. The date / time /
location, and first person tale have been promised. I told him the
"faces of death" connection, and he is interested to see if his
experience pre-dates the publication date of that.
Alan Follett
<snip funny/queasy food names priors>
> Can we just quickly detour to Spotted
> Dick and Drowned Baby?
Soitainly, if we can then proceed to Dinuguan -- a sort of
parts-the-pig-was-happy-to-be-rid-of stew. The Tagalog word means
"miscarriage."
Alan "beside which Ropa Viejo is quite innocuous" Follett
Phil Gustafson
Well, not *the* delicacy, but cartainly *a* delicacy. Here's one from
the vault:
<begin inclusion>
From TWC...@lbl.gov Mon Nov 1 23:03:17 PST 1993
Article: 53617 of alt.folklore.urban
Xref: a2i alt.folklore.urban:53617
Path: a2i!sgiblab!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!tennyson.lbl.gov!twcaps
From: twc...@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Oh, rats!
Date: 31 Oct 1993 01:12:38 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Lines: 175
Message-ID: <35...@dog.ee.lbl.gov>
Reply-To: TWC...@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117
Someone wrote:
.> Next is it true that rats are featured in some specialty
.>restaurant in China? The rest of the story goes that eating them
.>sometimes causes nosebleeds as some rats are full of a blood
.>thinning rat poison.
Is it true? Well, Krusty Old Hat Phil Gustafson posted an
excerpt from that august journal of literary deconstructionism,
_The Wall Street Journal_ in January of this year which I
enclose for your reading pleasure:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Chinese food
Message-ID: <C1p02...@rahul.net>
Organization: Famed Parquet Floor
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 00:30:17 GMT
Lines: 147
In article <H.eg.nQ2...@harvee.billerica.ma.us>
s...@harvee.billerica.ma.us writes:
> i saw on ccn a while ago a story about a restaurant in china(i forget
>exactly which city) which has lots of dishes on its menu made with rat
>meat. it's apparently legal there, and the place is quite popular.
A little archive-poking revealed the following:
--|<----|<----|<----|<----|<----|<----|<----|<----|<---|<----|<----|<---
Source: Wall Street Journal, May 31, 1991
GUANGZHOU, China -- The Cantonese people of south China are legendary for
eating anything that moves -- and some things that are still moving. The
food market here features cats, raccoons, owls, doves and snakes along with
bear and tiger's paw, dried deer penis and decomposed monkey skeletons.
Now, this rich culinary tradition, along with rising disposable income in
this most prosperous city in China, has inspired kitchen utensil salesman
Zhang Guoxun to open what is believed to be China's first restaurant
dedicated to serving rat.
That's right: Rat. Rat with Chestnut and Duck. Lemon Deep Fried Rat.
Satayed Rat Slices with Vermicelli. In fact, the menu lists 30 different
rat dishes, even including Liquored Rat Flambe, along with more mundane
dishes such as Hot Pepper Silkworm, Raccoon With Winter Melon and Sliced
Snake and Celery. And in the six months since the doors opened, customers
have been scampering in at all hours to the euphemistically named Jialu
(Superior to Deer) Restaurant.
"I was always eating out, but I got bored with the animals that restau-
rants offered," Mr. Zhang says during an interview over a plate of Black-
Bean Rat. "I wanted to open a restaurant with an affordable exotic animal.
Then I was walking home one night and a rat ran across in front of me and
gave me this idea."
Mr. Zhang's restaurant is as trendy as they come in China. The 15-table,
two-story eatery is a mixture of blond wood furniture, stucco walls and
wooden lattice laced with plastic vines. Tonight's crowd includes a young
couple who stroll in hand-in-hand and nestle in a quiet corner for a
romantic rat dinner. Other groups include engineers, office clerks,
salesmen and factory workers.
Tonight's special is Braised Rat. Garnished with sprigs of cilantro, the
morsels of rat meat are swaddled in crispy rat skin. The first nibble
reveals a rubbery texture. But the skin coats one's teeth with a stubborn
slime. The result is a bit like old chewing gum covered with Crisco.
But other dishes are better. German Black Pepper Rat Knuckle (rat should-
ers, actually; the knuckles are too small) tastes like a musty combination
of chicken and pork. The rat soup, with delicate threads of rat meat mixed
with thinly sliced potatoes and onions, is surprisingly sweet. Far and away
most appealing to the Western palate is Rat Kabob. The skewers of char-
coaled rat fillet are enlivened with slices of onion, mushroom and green
pepper and served smothered in barbecue sauce on sizzling iron plates that
are shaped like cows.
Also on the menu: a Nest of Snake and Rat, Vietnamese Style Rat Hot Pot, a
Pair of Rats Wrapped in Lotus Leaves, Salted Rat with Southern Baby
Peppers, Salted Cunning Rats, Fresh Lotus Seed Rat Stew, Seven-Color Rat
Threads, Dark Green Unicorn Rat -- and, of course, Classic Steamed Rat.
Generally, the presentation is quite elegant, with some dishes served with
lemon slices or scallions forming a border and others with carrots carved
into flower shapes.
Experienced rat eaters, however, warn that this is no meat to pig out on.
"Watch out," warns Wei Xiuwen, a factory manager eating at an adjacent
table. "If you eat too much rat, you get a nosebleed." Several customers
take off their shirts halfway through the meal because eating rat, like
dog, seems to raise the body temperature for some reason. That's why rat is
considered a winter food. In the summer, the restaurant does most of its
business during the late-night and early-morning hours, after the weather
cools down.
The restaurant is popular -- Mr. Zhang claims profits of $2,000 a month --
because it brings people back to their roots. The restaurant's cooks, and
most customers, are originally from the countryside, where as children they
ate air-dried rat meat. "If dried by a north wind, it tastes just like
duck," Che Yongcheng, an engineer and regular customer, says wistfully of
his favorite childhood snack.
For newcomers, Mr. Zhang has color brochures, featuring a photo of Rat
Kabobs alongside a bottle of Napoleon X.O. In both the menu and brochure,
the rats are referred to as "super deer" because Mr. Zhang says he wants to
separate his fare from the common sewer rats that even Cantonese might find
unappetizing. Mr. Zhang says his restaurant serves only free range rats,
wild rodents that feed on fruits and vegetables in the mountains a couple
of hundred kilometers to the north.
The brochure explains why rats are the health food for the 1990s. It says
the rats are rich in 17 amino acids, vitamin E and calcium. Eating them
promises to prevent hair loss, revive the male libido, cure premature
senility, relieve tension and reduce phlegm. A rat's "liver, gallbladder,
fat, brain, head, eye, saliva, bone, skin" are "useful for medical
treatment," says the brochure.
The restaurant's basement kitchen is a Dante's Inferno where shirtless
cooks sweat over huge woks atop howling gasfueled stoves that shoot flames
five feet in the air. Dozens of fat, ready-to-cook rats are piled in a
bamboo basket next to a crust-covered pump that noisily slurps up a small
river of scum that runs off the stove and across the floor.
The senior chef is not here tonight. An understudy, Huang Lingtun, clad in
rubber sandals and pants rolled up to his knees, explains how the rats are
rounded up. They're captured and cleaned by farmers who free-lance as rat
bounty hunters. Some smoke the rats out by setting fields on fire and
snaring the fleeing rats in nets attached to long bamboo poles. Others
string wires across fields to stun unsuspecting rodents with high voltage
charges. The rats, each about a half-pound, arrive at the restaurant
freshly gutted, beheaded and de-tailed.
Mr. Zhang says that the traditional recipes on his menu were suggested by
Tang Qixin, a farmer honored as a model worker by Mao in 1958 for his
prowess as a rat killer. Rat eradication campaigns have been a staple of
Chinese life since Mao declared war on the four pests -- rats, flies,
mosquitoes and bed bugs -- in the 1950s.
In 1984, the last Year of the Rat, the government launched an all-out
crusade in which an estimated 526 million rats were killed. In 1985, the
government tried to maintain the momentum by promoting rat meat as good
food, explaining that "rats are better looking than sea slugs and cleaner
than chickens and pigs."
Like most successful entrepreneurs during these times of shifting poli-
tical winds in China, Mr. Zhang is quick to highlight the patriotic nature
of his business rather than the personal economic benefits. "I am helping
the government by eliminating some pests and helping enrich some farmers,"
he says.
Mr. Zhang says he's too new to the business to think about a chain of rat
restaurants. But he says he's unconcerned about anyone stealing his idea.
"My quality is tops," he says, "so I'm not worried about competitors."
-->|---->|---->|---->|---->|---->|---->|---->|---->|---->|---->|---->|--
[...]
Terry "Now THAT'S voracity" Chan
--
Energy and Environment Division | Internet: TWC...@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory |
Berkeley, California USA 94720 | Believe it or rot!
<end inclusion>
Ph.
--
))
(( Phil Gustafson Urban Legends FAQ: http://www.urbanlegends.com
C|~~| Java FAQ: http://www.afu.com
`--' <ph...@panix.com>
Chris W.
> I once offered HK$1000 to a table of diners for a first-person
> monkey-brain story.
I finally got it!
A few years ago, one of my old dart partners, a U.S. Vietnam vet who
served in different parts of Asia, told me of his monkey brain
experience, and I finally got him to share all of the details with us -
here it is, in his written words:
"Chris;
It was 30 years ago, so am a bit foggy on details;"
(and I thought, Uh, oh! But it gets better, including date, even the
restaurant location!)
"But, It was in Taiwan, in August 1971.
We were there on our honeymoon."
(He was married to an Asian girl and brought her home to the States upon
being discharged from war duty)
"It was a pretty high-class restaurant on Chung Chan North Boulevard in
Taipei. It was at the table next to ours. Did not see the monkey's
body, it was under a table cloth. Table was wheeled out with round
silver bowl, upside down in middle."
"Chef raised the bowl, there was top of monkey's head (not shaved).
Large cleaver was used to cut off top of head. Rapid application of
towels precluded mess."
"Didn't hear any drum (probably because some fat lady was going
hysterical at another table.
Size (about tennis ball)
They ate with spoons. Dipped in something very red,
That's about all I can remember."
"A (wife's Asian) friend later assured us the monkey was live until the
cleaver."
This is about as good as first hand monkey brain experience as we've got
so far, I think. I had also asked him about the monkey squealing (was
it anaesthetized?) but there was no comment - it sounds like the lady
going hysterical at the next table was making most of the noise. I'm
not sure if I should further interrogate him about it, as I'm not sure
it was a pleasant experience for him.
Is this worth HK$1000?
Chris "will ask about monkey brains for food" Webb
DEF
>
>The Chinese Delicacy is RAT....
I did see a TV show three years ago (in Taiwan) where a TV crew followed
some guys with nets around a rice field at night as they caught rats. The
next morning they cooked them (the rats, that is) up over a bonfire and ate
them. Visualize a rat-on-a-stick or a ratcicle, no less! It was stressed
that field rats were good eatin', while city rats were unacceptable.
Obviously this was shown on TV because it was curious and out of the
ordinary. Chinese people do not eat rats anymore than Americans eat
oppossum (tho' some surely do).
I also saw a scavenger hunt game show where the losers had to eat worms
(boiled) and another where they had to drink shots with a scoop of ants
(dead). In both cases, the penalty was presented as a true local delicacy
of the area the hunt was taking place to add legitimacy to the punishment.
One genuine-authentic-truly-chinese woman puked trying to eat a worm. But
I'm sure the WSJ or CNN would happily report on these wacky foreigners,
proclaiming that "Chinese people eat anything that moves" and use these
shows as evidence.
-Dave
K C Chan
>I'm sure the WSJ or CNN would happily report on these wacky foreigners,
>proclaiming that "Chinese people eat anything that moves" and use these
>shows as evidence.
>
>-Dave
"Chinese eat anything that moves": but the Chinese themselves say
that. They have a saying: "If its back faces heaven you can eat it."
It's difficult to convey to a picky foreigner the cultural difference;
eating unusual things isn't gross or icky; it's attractive, exciting,
and a lot of fun. People travel for miles and spend a fortune to eat
unusual food.
For an Australian like my mum, "bird you eat" = "Chicken and only
chicken", but for my mother in law, "bird you eat" = "any damn bird
you can get your hands on, the more unusual the better." In the
markets here you can regularly buy chicken of both types (brown and
chinese white), quails, ducks, pigeons, pheasants, and geese. And
these are all common-or-garden table birds that are regularly eaten.
My mother recoils in horror when offered any bird that is not chicken.
My mother-in-law would be horrified at the thought of just limiting
herself to chicken.
K.C. "Stuck in the middle" Chan
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> For an Australian like my mum, "bird you eat" = "Chicken and only
> chicken", but for my mother in law, "bird you eat" = "any damn bird
> you can get your hands on, the more unusual the better." In the
> markets here you can regularly buy chicken of both types (brown and
> chinese white), quails, ducks, pigeons, pheasants, and geese. And
> these are all common-or-garden table birds that are regularly eaten.
I will not [knowingly] eat crow, hawk, or owl. Any other bird is
fine with me, having had chicken, turkey [both domestic and wild],
duck, goose, quail, pigeon, pheasant. That's all that has been
available.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Karen J. Cravens
<3AB754A7...@snet.net>:
>I will not [knowingly] eat crow, hawk, or owl. Any other bird is
>fine with me, having had chicken, turkey [both domestic and wild],
>duck, goose, quail, pigeon, pheasant. That's all that has been
>available.
Ostrich is semi-regularly available at the brewpub in Wichita and a few
other places 'round town... I'll be certain to make sure AFUICT is
appropriately scheduled to coincide with its availability.
(Tastes like... buffalo. As in bison, not fish.)
--
Karen J. Cravens
"4:48 PM. A caller on Claypole Lane reported her ex-husband was refusing
to give back the keys to her vehicle."
Police reports, The Weekly Vista (Bella Vista, AR)
Bruce Tindall
>Ostrich is semi-regularly available at the brewpub in Wichita and a few
>other places 'round town... I'll be certain to make sure AFUICT is
>appropriately scheduled to coincide with its availability.
Ostrich is also on the menu at the Fuji Japanese (Teppanyaki)
Steak House in Abilene, Texas, though when I ate there the
other night they were out.
B "for extra credit, name 3 ways in which the Fuji Japanese
Steak House is like the Holy Roman Empire" T
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Phil Gustafson
>
>For an Australian like my mum, "bird you eat" = "Chicken and only
>chicken", but for my mother in law, "bird you eat" = "any damn bird
>you can get your hands on, the more unusual the better." In the
>markets here you can regularly buy chicken of both types (brown and
>chinese white), quails, ducks, pigeons, pheasants, and geese. And
>these are all common-or-garden table birds that are regularly eaten.
>
you named, plus bits of emu, are in the freezer at the local upsclae
markets. Except maybe pigeon. Perhaps the creature I've enjoyed that
would quick mum the most is jellyfish.
DEF
>On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:42:29 GMT, shi...@ms1.hinet.net (DEF) wrote:
>
>>I'm sure the WSJ or CNN would happily report on these wacky foreigners,
>>proclaiming that "Chinese people eat anything that moves" and use these
>>shows as evidence.
>>
>>-Dave
>
>"Chinese eat anything that moves": but the Chinese themselves say
>that. They have a saying: "If its back faces heaven you can eat it."
>
>It's difficult to convey to a picky foreigner the cultural difference;
>eating unusual things isn't gross or icky; it's attractive, exciting,
>and a lot of fun. People travel for miles and spend a fortune to eat
>unusual food.
>
I have to disagree with you 100%. I live to travel and love to try new
things: that's half the trip for a traveler. But this is not a Chinese
trait. Most Chinese never travel and don't have a fortune to spend on
exotica. All cultures have food taboos and all cultures are a mix of folk;
some squimish, some adventurous. I have met plenty of squimish Chinese. In
fact, many of my untraveled Chinese friends are hesitant to eat anything
that is not Chinese. One of my Taiwanese cow-orkers even brought a heating
unit and ten packs of Ramen noodles with him when we went to Thailand
because he was afraid he wouldn't like Thai food. Chinese restaurants in
Bangkok are packed with Chinese tourists. This is the same attitude some of
my untraveled Wisconsin pals have about trying durian, squid jerky, or even
feta cheese pizza. Folks is folks.
-Dave
RM Mentock
> Ostrich is also on the menu at the Fuji Japanese (Teppanyaki)
> Steak House in Abilene, Texas, though when I ate there the
> other night they were out.
>
> B "for extra credit, name 3 ways in which the Fuji Japanese
> Steak House is like the Holy Roman Empire" T
It's not holy, it's not roman, and it's not an empire?
You gotcher emu there doncha?
--
RM Mentock
panta rhei -- Heraclitis
http://mentock.home.mindspring.com/
Nathan Tenny
K C Chan <kcc...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>"Chinese eat anything that moves": but the Chinese themselves say
>that. They have a saying: "If its back faces heaven you can eat it."
>
>It's difficult to convey to a picky foreigner the cultural difference;
>eating unusual things isn't gross or icky; it's attractive, exciting,
>and a lot of fun. People travel for miles and spend a fortune to eat
>unusual food.
I'm curious, now; to my Western ear this description has a certain ring
of jaded affluence. I envision someone with a little too much money, short
on interests and challenges, packing up to go to the other side of the
country to eat something unusual as an exercise in the outrageous (and to
prove that they can).
Does that notion translate to cover the Chinese attitude you're
describing---is it a characteristic of Emerging Affluence? (Easy enough to
imagine based on USAn press coverage of the Chinese economy---there's a
general sense of zillions of newly minted yuppies thronging the streets of
Shanghai, having a collective fling with economic status symbols like [ObUL]
cell phones that don't work. I'm sure that's partially caricature.) Or
would you characterize it more as a fairly deep-seated cultural trait?
NT
--
Nathan Tenny | Words I carry in my pocket, where they
Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA | breed like white mice.
<nten...@qualcomm.com> | - Lawrence Durrell
David Martin
>
> K C Chan <kcc...@attglobal.net> writes:
> >
> >For an Australian like my mum, "bird you eat" = "Chicken and only
> >chicken", but for my mother in law, "bird you eat" = "any damn bird
> >you can get your hands on, the more unusual the better." In the
> >markets here you can regularly buy chicken of both types (brown and
> >chinese white), quails, ducks, pigeons, pheasants, and geese. And
> >these are all common-or-garden table birds that are regularly eaten.
> >
> Your mum sounds about as adventurous as me own. But all the critters
> you named, plus bits of emu, are in the freezer at the local upsclae
> markets. Except maybe pigeon.
They don't have squab?
David "not upsclae" Martin
Sam Sly Campbell
I like that. "Folks is folks." My paternal grandfather was Syrian,
and introduced some wonderful exotic recipes which are passed down
faithfully in our family, and are staples of the feasting during
family get-togethers. One favorite is Kibbe:
ObCite: http://www.armchair.com/recipe/kibbe.html
The page gives sample ingredients:
"Ingredients
Filling #1
2 lbs round steak (or lamb), trimmed of fat and ground twice
1 cup bulgar wheat, medium grind
1/2 onion, grated
1/4 tsp black pepper
1/2 tsp salt
dash cinnamon
Soak the bulgar wheat in water for 1/2 hour, drain well and add the
meat. Mix very well. .
Filling #2
3/4 cup ground round
1/2 cup grated onions
1/2 cup pignola nuts
dash cinnamon or allspice
What's so unusual about this? Nothing, really. Kibbe is great fried
or baked and stuffed with various kinds of nuts. But in OUR family,
most of us like our kibbe RAW, topped with melted butter, salt, and
pepper. True, this isn't monkey brains or fried rat, but it just goes
to show you that one man's meat is another man's poison.
ObMotto: "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!"
Sam "will work for raw meat" Campbell
--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--
... So watch out if the tragic life feels fine--
caught in that rabbit trap
all colors look like sunlight's swords,
and scissors like The Living Lord. -- Stan Rice
Sam Campbell III
Professional Dilettante
Email: slyfootNO...@bellsouth.net
Brian Yeoh
> K C Chan <kcc...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> >"Chinese eat anything that moves": but the Chinese themselves say
> >that. They have a saying: "If its back faces heaven you can eat it."
> >It's difficult to convey to a picky foreigner the cultural difference;
> >eating unusual things isn't gross or icky; it's attractive, exciting,
> >and a lot of fun. People travel for miles and spend a fortune to eat
> >unusual food.
> I'm curious, now; to my Western ear this description has a certain ring
> of jaded affluence. I envision someone with a little too much money, short
> on interests and challenges, packing up to go to the other side of the
> country to eat something unusual as an exercise in the outrageous (and to
> prove that they can).
> Does that notion translate to cover the Chinese attitude you're
> describing---is it a characteristic of Emerging Affluence? (Easy enough to
> imagine based on USAn press coverage of the Chinese economy---there's a
> general sense of zillions of newly minted yuppies thronging the streets of
> Shanghai, having a collective fling with economic status symbols like [ObUL]
> cell phones that don't work. I'm sure that's partially caricature.) Or
> would you characterize it more as a fairly deep-seated cultural trait?
Far as I know, it seems a fairly deep-seated cultural trait. Food is a
perennial Chinese obsession (though there are always people who will go
overseas packing Chinese food and eating only in Chinatowns) that probably
stems from the famine periods when one had to eat strange and interesting
things simply to survive. I can't think of another way that rice wine
might have come about; finding fermented rice, but having no choice but to
eat it and realising hmm....
Of course, the perimeter of "Western" tastes has shrunken considerably
over the past 200 years; no one eats larks or acorns anymore.
Brian "instead substituting turkey and mayonnaise" Yeoh
--
The Royal Navy demonstrates its knowledge of life's _priorities_.
"[...] grant him a pardon for anything save mutiny, sodomy and damaging
the paintwork."
-- Jack Aubrey; Patrick O'Brian; _The Ionian Mission_
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Of course, the perimeter of "Western" tastes has shrunken considerably
> over the past 200 years; no one eats larks or acorns anymore.
>
> Brian "instead substituting turkey and mayonnaise" Yeoh
I had forgotten, until the above, that you don't particularly
care for turkey.
Charles D.
Karen J. Cravens
<3ab7904e....@news.mco.bellsouth.net>:
>I like that. "Folks is folks." My paternal grandfather was Syrian,
>and introduced some wonderful exotic recipes which are passed down
>faithfully in our family, and are staples of the feasting during
>family get-togethers. One favorite is Kibbe:
I propose we stop asterisking the hotbutton topics so we reel in some folks
worthy of doe snotting, on account of there have been a bunch of people
mention recipes I wanna hear about.
(And I have some to share. Mmm, mudbug pie.)
Brian Yeoh
I have absolutely nothing against turkeys; noble birds all. I just don't
particularly like eating dried cardboard.
Brian "Three Thanksgivings running" Yeoh
Madeleine Page
>> > Of course, the perimeter of "Western" tastes has shrunken considerably
>> > over the past 200 years; no one eats larks or acorns anymore.
Well, they certainly ate songbirds in Italy forty-some years ago. That's
when I was there on holiday when everyone goes into the fields and woods
and shoots anything that flies, and then makes a dinner of them all. Not
quite sure if larks were included in the (considerable) slaughter: they
may be able to fly high enough to avoid the carnage.
> I have absolutely nothing against turkeys; noble birds all. I just don't
> particularly like eating dried cardboard.
May I recommend a kosher turkey? I've had one four Thanksgivings running,
and they have been uniformly moist, tender and full of flavour. Nothing
like the recycled polystyrene of my nightmares.
Madeleine "going to have another one at Passover in a couple of weeks"
Page
--
Visit my home page! Sign my imaginary guestbook!
www.mpage.net
K C Chan
I think you've missed my point 100%.
Chinese love to travel and eat exotic animals. But they like them
prepared Chinese style, in a way they're familiar with. They take cup
noodles with them, and eat in Chinese restaurants when they're away,
because they don't like food prepared differently from what they're
used to.
They'd be quite happy to go to Africa and eat ostrich and giraffe in a
Chinese restaurant; but don't ask them to eat authentic African food.
And that was my point.
K.C. "loves Thai food" Chan
K C Chan
(Nathan Tenny) wrote:
>In article <NS63Or1mxh8XwiRHMIBSrN=MF...@4ax.com>,
>K C Chan <kcc...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>"Chinese eat anything that moves": but the Chinese themselves say
>>that. They have a saying: "If its back faces heaven you can eat it."
>>
>>It's difficult to convey to a picky foreigner the cultural difference;
>>eating unusual things isn't gross or icky; it's attractive, exciting,
>>and a lot of fun. People travel for miles and spend a fortune to eat
>>unusual food.
>
>I'm curious, now; to my Western ear this description has a certain ring
>of jaded affluence. I envision someone with a little too much money, short
>on interests and challenges, packing up to go to the other side of the
>country to eat something unusual as an exercise in the outrageous (and to
>prove that they can).
>
>Does that notion translate to cover the Chinese attitude you're
>describing---is it a characteristic of Emerging Affluence? (Easy enough to
>imagine based on USAn press coverage of the Chinese economy---there's a
>general sense of zillions of newly minted yuppies thronging the streets of
>Shanghai, having a collective fling with economic status symbols like [ObUL]
>cell phones that don't work. I'm sure that's partially caricature.) Or
>would you characterize it more as a fairly deep-seated cultural trait?
>
> NT
Actually it's both.
The eating of exotic food is a cultural thing; there are the stories
of the famous banquets and dishes eaten by the wealthy in days of
yore.
Tiger is an example of this. There was a time that only the emperor
and a few other extremely wealthy people was able to pay for the
trouble necessary to get tiger to put on the dinner table. (Tigers
are famous for sexual stamina, and it was felt that the emperor would
need every bit of help.)
But now that people are becoming more affluent, everybody wants to
have tiger too.
The jaded, wealthy, too-much-time-and--money thing also applies here.
Conspicuous consumption is alive and well in Hong Kong - the number of
fancy sports cars which never see a road without a traffic jam in it
is an example.
Shark activists are saying the same thing: when shark was a rare and
expensive delicacy, the sharks were in no danger. But now everybody
can afford shark fin, and they're eating it all the time, the sharks
are definitely becoming thinner on the ground.
K.C. "or in the water, for that matter." Chan
Brian Yeoh
> Brian Yeoh <lb...@columbia.edu> writes, and Brian Yeoh wrote:
> >> > Of course, the perimeter of "Western" tastes has shrunken considerably
> >> > over the past 200 years; no one eats larks or acorns anymore.
> Well, they certainly ate songbirds in Italy forty-some years ago. That's
> when I was there on holiday when everyone goes into the fields and woods
> and shoots anything that flies, and then makes a dinner of them all. Not
> quite sure if larks were included in the (considerable) slaughter: they
> may be able to fly high enough to avoid the carnage.
Hmm... interesting. Perhaps I should recast that "Western" to more
"Anglo". Certainly there were some interesting things on the menu in
Germany; calf's liver isn't something that I've come across too often.
And of course, there're the Catalan baby eels, the name of which I can't
remember, but which are particularly disturbing when you see them jumping
about in the boiling oil...
> > I have absolutely nothing against turkeys; noble birds all. I just don't
> > particularly like eating dried cardboard.
> May I recommend a kosher turkey? I've had one four Thanksgivings running,
> and they have been uniformly moist, tender and full of flavour. Nothing
> like the recycled polystyrene of my nightmares.
Hmm... sounds good; the next Thanksgiving dinner attending, I'll make that
suggestion to my host.
Brian "cooking is what _other_ people do[1]" Yeoh
[1] And I'll happily compensate them for same.
Brian Yeoh
<snip>
> Shark activists are saying the same thing: when shark was a rare and
> expensive delicacy, the sharks were in no danger. But now everybody
> can afford shark fin, and they're eating it all the time, the sharks
> are definitely becoming thinner on the ground.
Which I quite deplore, sharks being one of my most beloved animals.
Nothing is more perfectly suited to its environment than a requiem shark,
proof lying in their essentially unchanged state for 100 million years.
I gave up ordering shark's fin because I didn't want to contribute to
their decimation.
Brian "but never gave up eating[1]" Yeoh
[1] After all, if someone else has already killed a shark...
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Which I quite deplore, sharks being one of my most beloved animals.
> Nothing is more perfectly suited to its environment than a requiem shark,
> proof lying in their essentially unchanged state for 100 million years.
350 million years.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Don Erickson
>Well, they certainly ate songbirds in Italy forty-some years ago.
And they certainly eat songbirds in Italy today.
While dining at the "Girarrosto di Buongustaio" restaraunt up the mountain
from Orvieto last fall, the enquiry was made as to the origin of an item
on the menu, a longish word that included the letters "pollo" in it. On a
previous day in another city, we had assumed a chicken ancestry for a dish
of this word and ordered it, but decided that we had been served the
smallest chicken in Italy.
The waiter, who as it turns out had an Irish mother and was rather proud
of his excellent english, struggled to describe the exact type of foul
roasted in the dish.
He: "Small bird."
Me: "Not Chicken?"
He: "No. Small bird. Ahhh, Lark."
Me: "Oh. Is it good?"
He: "Yes...if you like small bird." Upon reflection he added, "You have
to like it a lot."
Anyway, I didn't order the lark that evening, having tasted (and I do
mean tasted, lark is much work for very little result) it previously.
>> I have absolutely nothing against turkeys; noble birds all. I just don't
>> particularly like eating dried cardboard.
>
>May I recommend a kosher turkey? I've had one four Thanksgivings running,
>and they have been uniformly moist, tender and full of flavour. Nothing
>like the recycled polystyrene of my nightmares.
I suggest brining the turkey. It's like a whole different bird.
-Don Erickson
--
.sig lite
Karen J. Cravens
100...@panix3.panix.com>:
>I have absolutely nothing against turkeys; noble birds all. I just don't
>particularly like eating dried cardboard.
Deep fried turkey. (*Properly* smoked turkey is okay, but dang, it's
really hard to not dry it out.)
Despite having given the stepdad-in-law a fryer last Christmas, and a
basting kit this Christmas, we haven't persuaded mom-in-law to stop
dehydrating turkey every Thanksgiving. Sigh.
Of course, you could baste and deep fry the cardboard, and it'd probably
taste good too.
DEF
>Chinese love to travel and eat exotic animals.
Chinese never travel and eat no animals.
Some Chinese are poor and Buddhist. And I bet they outnumber jet setting
tiger penis eaters by a million to one.
-Dave "and they can't be wrong" Franks
Nina Neudorfer
"Madeleine Page" <mp...@mpage.net> wrote:
> Brian Yeoh wrote:
>
> > I have absolutely nothing against turkeys; noble birds all. I just don't
> > particularly like eating dried cardboard.
>
> May I recommend a kosher turkey? I've had one four Thanksgivings running,
> and they have been uniformly moist, tender and full of flavour. Nothing
> like the recycled polystyrene of my nightmares.
>
lies with the other half: your chef. I saved a number of birds in my
ex-inlaws'
kosher kitchen, when perfect turkeys were returned to the oven "for another
half hour, just to be sure."
--
Nina "for more details, see Chapter 82 of my book, _Divorce: It's All
Good!_"
~~~~~~~
[...]only so many ways that you can cook pork and vegetables.
-------Brian Yeoh shamelessly angles for new mu shu, on AFU
ctbishop
<cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>Brian Yeoh wrote:
>
>> Which I quite deplore, sharks being one of my most beloved animals.
>> Nothing is more perfectly suited to its environment than a requiem shark,
>> proof lying in their essentially unchanged state for 100 million years.
Charles checks with Maddy.
>
>350 million years.
>
>Charles Wm. Dimmick
Charles, I've been good for soooooo long, Bishop
Brian Yeoh
Not knowing the exact number, I thought I'd go for one which I did know,
that being the approximate start (give or take 20 million years) of the
Cretaceous.
Brian "still love the evil bastards" Yeoh
Yehuda Naveh
> My paternal grandfather was Syrian,
> and introduced some wonderful exotic recipes which are passed down
> faithfully in our family, and are staples of the feasting during
> family get-togethers. One favorite is Kibbe:
>
> ObCite: http://www.armchair.com/recipe/kibbe.html
I'll betcha one thing: your grandpa pronounced it kubbe, and bulgar was
burgul. Whether he ate it in a soup or fried (and if the former, whether
the soup was white soup or red soup), this I don't know. But I'm sure as
hell he could recount at length the hopelessly bitter fights his family
had over precisely these issues.
Oh, and I don't know who those armchair people pretend to be, but until
they drop the 'dash of cinnamon', I don't think I want to hear anything
else from them.
Yehuda
Lee Rudolph
>Hmm... interesting. Perhaps I should recast that "Western" to more
>"Anglo". Certainly there were some interesting things on the menu in
>Germany; calf's liver isn't something that I've come across too often.
You are Norman Portnoy and I'll do without my two-fifty thankyouverymuch.
Lee "special sauce for the whole family!" Rudolph
Sam Sly Campbell
<yen...@ms.cc.sunysb.edu> wrote:
<snipped>
>
>I'll betcha one thing: your grandpa pronounced it kubbe, and bulgar was
>burgul. Whether he ate it in a soup or fried (and if the former, whether
>the soup was white soup or red soup), this I don't know. But I'm sure as
>hell he could recount at length the hopelessly bitter fights his family
>had over precisely these issues.
>
>Oh, and I don't know who those armchair people pretend to be, but until
>they drop the 'dash of cinnamon', I don't think I want to hear anything
>else from them.
>
>Yehuda
>
You may be right about how he pronounced things. Unfortunately he's
passed on... and I'll have to check with my folks about the white/red
soup argument. But usually we have it with sides of grape-leaf and
cabbage-leaf rolls. And maybe some baklava to finish things off. And
you're right-- we never needed no steenking cinnamon.
And I'm reasonably sure none of our family recipes call for monkey
brains, either.
Sam "but we'll eat gator tail if the gators get too uppitty" Campbell
Madeleine Page
> Deep fried turkey. (*Properly* smoked turkey is okay, but dang, it's
> really hard to not dry it out.)
>
> Despite having given the stepdad-in-law a fryer last Christmas, and a
> basting kit this Christmas, we haven't persuaded mom-in-law to stop
> dehydrating turkey every Thanksgiving. Sigh.
The implements for which tavolo.com, in its death throes, currently has on
sale.
Madeleine "should anyone suddenly find themselves longing to deepfry a
turkey" Page
Madeleine Page
> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>>Brian Yeoh wrote:
>>> Which I quite deplore, sharks being one of my most beloved animals.
>>> Nothing is more perfectly suited to its environment than a requiem shark,
>>> proof lying in their essentially unchanged state for 100 million years.
>
> Charles checks with Maddy.
You, sir, are chum.
Madeleine "basking" Page
Brian Yeoh
> Brian Yeoh <lb...@columbia.edu> writes:
> >Hmm... interesting. Perhaps I should recast that "Western" to more
> >"Anglo". Certainly there were some interesting things on the menu in
> >Germany; calf's liver isn't something that I've come across too often.
> You are Norman Portnoy and I'll do without my two-fifty thankyouverymuch.
florp?
Brian "glup shmug no context wibble breep" Yeoh
John Francis
Brian Yeoh <lb...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>
>Hmm... interesting. Perhaps I should recast that "Western" to more
>"Anglo". Certainly there were some interesting things on the menu in
>Germany; calf's liver isn't something that I've come across too often.
Liver (and bacon, fried onions, mashed potatoes, ...) is a staple
of the Anglo diet back where I come from - it's only certain parts
of the USA that seem to have a problem with 'variety meats'.
Some other ethnic delicatessens (undoubtedly available where
you are) will be only too happy to serve you calf's liver.
--
John "What do you think this is? Chopped liver?" Francis
John Francis
Brian Yeoh <lb...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>
>I have absolutely nothing against turkeys; noble birds all. I just don't
>particularly like eating dried cardboard.
Ever had deep-fried turkey?
--
John "Take ten gallons of oil ..." Beeton^WFrancis
John Francis
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Sam "but we'll eat gator tail if the gators get too uppitty" Campbell
Yup. Gator tail is good eatin'. Never forget the fine dinner two girls
treated me to one evening at Mack and Nell's Fish Camp in Cross
Creek, Florida [home "town" of Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings].
Gator tail, catfish, frog legs, Florida Gopher soup, cole slaw,
butter beans, and fresh biscuits, washed down with hot coffee
and/or iced sweet tea.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
--
http://www.physics.ccsu.edu/dimmick.html
"And some rin up hill and down dale, knapping
the chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like
sae mony road-makers run daft -- they say it is
to see how the warld was made!"
Joseph Michael Bay
>I will not [knowingly] eat crow, hawk, or owl. Any other bird is
>fine with me, having had chicken, turkey [both domestic and wild],
>duck, goose, quail, pigeon, pheasant. That's all that has been
>available.
Oh, come on. I'm sure you've eaten crow.
--
Joe Bay FLX NAV
Cancer Biology NUC MEM
Leland Stanford Junior University LIF CNT
Nike Educational Facilities and Sweatshops Inc VEH ATM
R H Draney
>
> Gator tail, catfish, frog legs, Florida Gopher soup, cole slaw,
> butter beans, and fresh biscuits, washed down with hot coffee
> and/or iced sweet tea.
Cole slaw?!...that's disgusting!...r
--
America: where you can still eat the meat!
K C Chan
Uh, Ok, whatever, I can see I'm wasting my time here.
K.C. "There is a large straw man to the West" Chan
Karen J. Cravens
<3AB91FAF...@ccsu.edu>:
>Yup. Gator tail is good eatin'. Never forget the fine dinner two girls
>treated me to one evening at Mack and Nell's Fish Camp in Cross
>Creek, Florida [home "town" of Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings].
>Gator tail, catfish, frog legs, Florida Gopher soup, cole slaw,
>butter beans, and fresh biscuits, washed down with hot coffee
>and/or iced sweet tea.
As of last week, I can add "frog legs" to my list of meats I've tried...
gonna try the gator burger here soon (I've actually already had gator, but
not in that form). The frog didn't actually taste a whole lot like
chicken... more like chickenish-shaped almost-fish, actually. I'm still
not clear on whether I was supposed to eat the flippers or whether they're
left on so you know you're not getting overpriced chicken wings or what,
though.
Anyhow, I'd propose the hypothetical AFUICT dinner be at Wichita Fish, but
we'd have to eat in shifts. No matter how few people showed up, just
about...
(No soup, potato wedge fries instead of beans, and the biscuits were fresh
jalapeno hushpuppies, otherwise, yeah, we gotcher fine dinner there.)
Ulo Melton
Cravens) wrote:
>"Charles Wm. Dimmick" <dim...@ccsu.edu> wrote in
><3AB91FAF...@ccsu.edu>:
>
>>Yup. Gator tail is good eatin'.
[snip]
>As of last week, I can add "frog legs" to my list of meats I've tried...
>gonna try the gator burger here soon (I've actually already had gator, but
>not in that form).
You're a couple of goddam barbarians. Besides, gator meat is tough and
chewy and not worth the effort of eating.
--
Ulo Melton (melt...@sewergator.com)
http://www.sewergator.com - Your Pipeline to Adventure
ctbishop
wrote:
>Karen J. Cravens <silve...@phoenyx.net> writes:
>
>> Deep fried turkey. (*Properly* smoked turkey is okay, but dang, it's
>> really hard to not dry it out.)
>>
>> Despite having given the stepdad-in-law a fryer last Christmas, and a
>> basting kit this Christmas, we haven't persuaded mom-in-law to stop
>> dehydrating turkey every Thanksgiving. Sigh.
>
>The implements for which tavolo.com, in its death throes, currently has on
>sale.
>
>Madeleine "should anyone suddenly find themselves longing to deepfry a
>turkey" Page
>
We have, for mumblety years now, cooked the Thanksgiving and Christmas
turkeys in a paper bag.
Stuff the turkey
oil the outside of the turkey with butter or veg oil
salt and pepper the outside
put into a paper bag and tie the end shut
Bake at 375 (I think-I can check if you need to know) for 20 minutes/lb
The paper bag sticks to the bottom of the turkey, but you don't have to
baste and it works well every time.
Charles
David Scheidt
:>
: We have, for mumblety years now, cooked the Thanksgiving and Christmas
: turkeys in a paper bag.
: The paper bag sticks to the bottom of the turkey, but you don't have to
: baste and it works well every time.
There are also plastic bags available for this purpose. They dont stick to
the bird.
David "saw plastic bags for making ice in at hte store the other day"
Scheidt
--
dsch...@tumbolia.com
Bipedalism is only a fad.
JerryG
<3ab9862b...@news.mindspring.com> :
>Cravens) wrote:
>>"Charles Wm. Dimmick" <dim...@ccsu.edu> wrote in
>><3AB91FAF...@ccsu.edu>:
>>
>>>Yup. Gator tail is good eatin'.
>
>[snip]
>
>>As of last week, I can add "frog legs" to my list of meats I've tried...
>>gonna try the gator burger here soon (I've actually already had gator,
>>but not in that form).
>
>You're a couple of goddam barbarians. Besides, gator meat is tough and
>chewy and not worth the effort of eating.
Not in a cajun gumbo,
Alligator Gumbo:
2 cups flour 2 cups peanut oil
2 onions 4 tablespoons of creole seasoning
1 red and 1 green bell peppers
2 tsp crab boil seasoning
4 ribs of celery 5 bay leaves
1/2 cup chopped fresh garlic salt and pepper to taste
3 tablespoon tomato paste
3 alligator sausage links
1 bunch green onions
1 bunch parsleydash to taste worcestershire
dash to taste your favorite hot sauce.
Jerry "yum, yum" G
_______________________________________________
Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com
Deborah Brown
>Madeleine "should anyone suddenly find themselves longing to deepfry a
>turkey" Page
As a possible point of interest, I know of a place near Dayton, OH
that will *broast* your turkey for you if you bring it in. As I much
prefer my turkey baked[1], however, I've not tried it[2]
Deborah "Broasted chicken, on the other hand..." Brown
[1] Where baked is defined as cooking the bird until it's done *and
not a minute more*. Turkey, like chicken, does *not* survive
overcooking very well. (IMNHO, at least)
[2] Of course, since #1 son turns out to be allergic, it's a moot
point for *any* turkey in this household. *sigh*
--
****************************************************************
*Motherhood: Mother Nature's way of saying you sleep too much. *
*Visit me at <http://members.tripod.com/Anarchy_Acre/Home.html>*
****************************************************************
Drew Lawson
Deborah Brown <leg...@erinet.com> writes:
>Madeleine Page wrote:
>>Madeleine "should anyone suddenly find themselves longing to deepfry a
>>turkey" Page
>
>As a possible point of interest, I know of a place near Dayton, OH
>that will *broast* your turkey for you if you bring it in. As I much
>prefer my turkey baked[1], however, I've not tried it[2]
I knew that someday I'd get sucked into one of the food threads . . .
What is this "broast" that you speak of? I've heard the word used
before, but dictionary.com refuses to tell me what it means.
Drew "it suggests 'boast'" Lawson
--
Drew Lawson http://www.furrfu.com/ dr...@furrfu.com
"Please understand that we are considerably less interested
in you than you are."
-- Madeleine Page, on the deep truths of alt.folklore.urban
Barbara Needham
>plus bits of emu
We ate an emu egg the other day. Fed 5 people, scrambled. Very mild,
comparable to free-range chicken eggs. Felt like I was eating a
fortune; but emu prices have dropped drastically.
--
Barbara Needham
Dr H
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, JerryG wrote:
} 3 alligator sausage links
Looks good, but I think I'm going to have a hard time finding
this ingredient in Oregon. Can you substitute beaver-tail
sausage?
Dr H
McCaffertA
writes:
>I knew that someday I'd get sucked into one of the food threads . . .
>What is this "broast" that you speak of? I've heard the word used
>before, but dictionary.com refuses to tell me what it means.
A portmanteau word of "bake" and "roast"; either very low-temperature
roasting, or very high-temp single-direction baking, however you prefer to look
at it.
Anthony "Now I'm hungry, dammit" McCafferty
JerryG
<99a87m$l63$2...@news.panix.com> :
>> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>>>Brian Yeoh wrote:
>
>>>> Which I quite deplore, sharks being one of my most beloved animals.
>>>> Nothing is more perfectly suited to its environment than a requiem shark,
>>>> proof lying in their essentially unchanged state for 100 million years.
>>
>> Charles checks with Maddy.
>
>You, sir, are chum.
Is that in "friend" or "fish food?"
>Madeleine "basking" Page
Shouldn't that be "basting?"
Jerry "two straight lines on a silver platter" G
Bob Ward
wrote:
What is "single direction baking"? Is there a round trip method I'm
unaware of?
Jackie Laderoute
Hmmm. I've heard several explanations of this term -
one is yours, which seems to describe two disparate methods of cooking.
Another is that it is an almagam of broil and roast, which would fit
with your "single-direction" description.
Yet another is a reference to a process combining deep-frying with
pressure-cooking - ""Broasting is a registered process that builds
pressure in the pot which seals in the natural juices while sealing out
almost 100% of the cooking
oil. The Broaster Co. perfected the first Broaster in 1952." (from
http://www.taquitos.net/yum/broast.shtml). They are still marketed today
- see http://www.pressurefryers.com/1800/1800e.htm.
Searching on "broaster" yields http://www.broaster.com/ - yup, the
Broaster Company. They seem to have changed their main focus from the
equipment to chicken itself - they explain "It starts with quality
chicken,carefully marinated and coated with specially formulated
Broaster® ingredients. Then, as each order is received, the chicken is
placed inside the Broaster® pressure fryer, designed to cook each
individual piece of chicken "under pressure" in the chicken's own
natural juices, limiting the absorption of cooking oil and driving the
marinade deep down to the bone while searing the chicken with a
golden,crispy-crunchy coating."
Sounds suspiciously like the KFC method... and indeed,
http://outreach.missouri.edu/hesnutrnews/fnr88-12.htm gives us:
"Broasting = Pressure Frying
There's a funny story behind this headline. We received a call
from Diana in Perry County; her client needed to know how to
"broast" a chicken. It seems she was preparing dinner for a
Doctor and he requested "broasted" chicken. We can only assume
that she didn't want to admit not knowing how to do this, so she
called her county extension office.
We called restaurant supply dealer, Don Corwin, here in Columbia.
He explained that "Bro-Co" is the name of the original broasting
device. It's a deep-fat pressure fryer with a tight-fitting lid
and a foot pedal, which when pumped introduces steam from water
which is housed in a glass jar outside the device. Food prepared
in such a manner is supposedly super-moist.
Who do you think was one of the first institutions to use "Bro-
Co"? Kentucky Fried Chicken. In fact, their "original recipe"
chicken is "broasted". The extra crispy recipe is deep fat fried
in the more traditional manner.
Now for the funny part. Barbara Willenberg suggested serving
this "Doctor" a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken! After all, he
wanted "broasted" chicken. Don't you think he'd be impressed?!"
But there is more to the "broasting" story - A fast-food place in Dhaka,
Bangladesh serves broast chicken, which seems to fit with the definition
above - "Chicken broast is deep fried chicken which is very crispy and
tasty to eat." http://www.bangladeshinfo.com/food/food_fast_food.php3
(Actually, there are quite a few web references to Pakistani, Indian and
Bangladeshi restaurants specializing in broasted foods, so it may be a
cultural favourite - there seems to be a variety of premixed "broasting
spices".).
Perhaps not surprisingly, the dictionary at
http://www.epicurious.com/run/fooddictionary/home (a favourite of mine)
neglects the technique altogether.
Jackie "never dried out a roast" Laderoute
--
< o \"/ Don't play cat and mouse with me! (
---© ) ()-()
< o /"\ Jackie Laderoute jflad...@home.com (o o)
************************************************************/\o/\
Sevo Stille
> What is "single direction baking"? Is there a round trip method I'm
> unaware of?
It depends on the hemisphere...
Sevo "Broiler" Stille
--
Sevo Stille
se...@ip23.net
R H Draney
>
> On 22 Mar 2001 19:45:27 GMT, mccaf...@aol.comment (McCaffertA) wrote:
>
> >In article <99dd18$59h$1...@home.eCynic.com>, dr...@furrfu.com (Drew Lawson)
> >writes:
> >
> >>I knew that someday I'd get sucked into one of the food threads . . .
> >>What is this "broast" that you speak of? I've heard the word used
> >>before, but dictionary.com refuses to tell me what it means.
> >
> > A portmanteau word of "bake" and "roast"; either very low-temperature
> >roasting, or very high-temp single-direction baking, however you prefer to look
> >at it.
>
> with your "single-direction" description.
>
> Yet another is a reference to a process combining deep-frying with
> pressure-cooking - ""Broasting is a registered process that builds
> pressure in the pot which seals in the natural juices while sealing out
> almost 100% of the cooking
> oil. The Broaster Co. perfected the first Broaster in 1952." (from
> http://www.taquitos.net/yum/broast.shtml). They are still marketed today
> - see http://www.pressurefryers.com/1800/1800e.htm.
Which of these would explain "broasted potatoes"?...flashing back to the
early '70s now....
Not sure which competing method was in use at a place that used to exist
in Globe, Arizona [1], near the double-right-angle turn on the highway
through town...but they had a huge sign outside announcing "Dick's
Broasted Chicken!"...since we were of approximate Beavis-and-Butthead
age at the time, my brother and I used to amuse ourselves by permuting
the words of this sign....r
[1] Now when you drive into town, a billboard announces
"Chinese-Italian-American Cuisine"...that would be your basic deep-fried
won ton parmaggiano....
McCaffertA
<rcw...@gte.net> writes:
Wardlet, the list of things you are unaware of, by all evidence, is so vast
that we would be illserved trying to dispell anything but the tiniest chunks at
any one time, lest the whole of Usenet collapse under the message flow.
We have, on the one side, baking, which strictly speaking, is supposed to be
done in a chamber in which radiant heat comes at the food from top, bottom, and
sides, or, in the specialized case of convection ovens, which generally ain't,
radiant heat plus swirling air coming around all sides of the product. Then we
have, on the other side, broiling and flame roasting, in which there is ungodly
heat on one side of the product, next to none on the other. "Broast" "Bake
and roast" or "broil and roast", depending on who you ask.
Anthony "Tell us how wonderful the Chevy Vega is again, Wardlet" McCafferty
McCaffertA
Laderoute <jflad...@home.com> writes:
>> A portmanteau word of "bake" and "roast"; either very low-temperature
>>roasting, or very high-temp single-direction baking, however you prefer to
>>look at it.
>Hmmm. I've heard several explanations of this term -
>one is yours, which seems to describe two disparate methods of cooking.
Not serially, they aren't.
>Another is that it is an almagam of broil and roast, which would fit
>with your "single-direction" description.
>
>Yet another is a reference to a process combining deep-frying with
>pressure-cooking - ""Broasting is a registered process that builds
>pressure in the pot which seals in the natural juices while sealing out
>almost 100% of the cooking
>oil. The Broaster Co. perfected the first Broaster in 1952." (from
>http://www.taquitos.net/yum/broast.shtml). They are still marketed today
>- see http://www.pressurefryers.com/1800/1800e.htm.
Neat. The term seemed to have gone public domain in New England in the
'70s and '80s. Used to describe rotissery roasting mostly, but I also saw it in
books of favorite recipes ( the sort used as home-made fundraisers by schools
and charities) for the sear-then-bake method.
Anthony "Color me a victim of folk etymology [1]" McCafferty
[1]But I still know more about Vegas, Wardlet.
Lon Stowell
Lon Stowell
JerryG <donot...@interbulletin.bogus> wrote:
>Madeleine Page <mp...@mpage.net> wrote in article
><99a87m$l63$2...@news.panix.com> :
>>ctbishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
>>> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>>>>Brian Yeoh wrote:
>>
>>>>> Which I quite deplore, sharks being one of my most beloved animals.
>>>>> Nothing is more perfectly suited to its environment than a requiem shark,
>>>>> proof lying in their essentially unchanged state for 100 million years.
>>>
>>> Charles checks with Maddy.
>>
>>You, sir, are chum.
>
>Is that in "friend" or "fish food?"
>
>>Madeleine "basking" Page
>
>Shouldn't that be "basting?"
More likely bassking.
>
>Jerry "two straight lines on a silver platter" G
Does anyone have a $100 bill?
Bob Ward
wrote:
?
>
> Wardlet, the list of things you are unaware of, by all evidence, is so vast
>that we would be illserved trying to dispell anything but the tiniest chunks at
>any one time, lest the whole of Usenet collapse under the message flow.
>
>Anthony "Tell us how wonderful the Chevy Vega is again, Wardlet" McCafferty
I take it your mom pissed in your Cheerios again this morning?
David B. Greene
I hear the Oregonians serve a dynamite whale stew over
on the coast :)
Dave "Newport I think it is" Greene
Karen J. Cravens
<20010322213344...@nso-cu.aol.com>:
>Anthony "Tell us how wonderful the Chevy Vega is again, Wardlet"
>McCafferty
I miss mine. Though I'd readily admit it was just that *a* Chevy Vega was
wonderful, but in the aggregate The Archetypical Vega wasn't...
McCaffertA
<rcw...@gte.net> writes:
>I take it your mom pissed in your Cheerios again this morning?
Oh, dear. Wardlet is typing one-handed again.
Anthony "Or he's trying to write a cookbook..." McCafferty
McCaffertA
(Karen J. Cravens) writes:
>mccaf...@aol.comment (McCaffertA) wrote in
><20010322213344...@nso-cu.aol.com>:
>
>>Anthony "Tell us how wonderful the Chevy Vega is again, Wardlet"
>>McCafferty
>
>I miss mine. Though I'd readily admit it was just that *a* Chevy Vega was
>wonderful, but in the aggregate The Archetypical Vega wasn't...
Oh, this is a running joke I have with Wardlet; he once used a URL which
mentioned, quite explicitly, the early Vega's tendency to throw rear wheels at
speed, to leak fuel, to rust through almost on the showroom floor, and to
dramatically overheat as proof it was a -safe- car.
It's a pity the quality control on the things was so abysmal, in many
ways they were interesting, innovative cars.
Anthony "I owned the rust-brown 3 and a half cylinder model" McCafferty
Deborah Brown
> I knew that someday I'd get sucked into one of the food threads . . .
> What is this "broast" that you speak of? I've heard the word used
> before, but dictionary.com refuses to tell me what it means.
Bwahahahaha. Trapped! Trapped I tell you!
Anyway - I'm no expert, but I believe that broasting is a style of
deep frying wherein the floured meat or potatoes are put into a
pressure cooker style fryer and cooked at high heat and pressure.
Made right, it's tender, juicy and crispy on the outside. Made
wrong... it's overcooked and like that aforementioned cardboard turkey
of Brian's.
Deborah - vast quantities of grease and salt... YUM
Ray Depew
: In article <1mllbt4se28vo8mbi...@4ax.com>, Bob Ward
: <rcw...@gte.net> writes:
--
Regards
Ray Depew ray_...@agilent.com
Agilent Technologies, Ft. Collins, CO
JerryG
<3abadf4...@news.u.washington.edu> :
Yeah, I've seen that recipe. It's like "Hannibal," as the ending is rather,
shall we say, messy.
Jerry "thar she blows" G ;)
John Francis
Lon Stowell <lsto...@dnai.com> wrote:
>
> Try goeduck leg sausage.
Clams got legs?
John "TINBOBC" Francis
Bob Ward
wrote:
I'm really proud to have traumatized you for more than a year -
frankly, you didn't register with me at all.
Gerald Belton
wrote:
>Anthony "Tell us how wonderful the Chevy Vega is again, Wardlet" McCafferty
I *loved* my Chevy Vega. I still have very fond memories of that car.
Gerald "almost lost my virginity in a Chevy Vega" Belton
--
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