LINCtape
David Gesswein
a LINCtape? I am trying to program my TD8E to read some I have and this
would make it much easier. I have seen the general info such as
http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum/doco/PDP-12/UG-Chap3s6.html#3.32
That says the info I need is in the PDP-12 Maintenance Manual.
I posted this to pdp-8 lovers last night but didn't get a copy back so not
sure if it went out.
Thanks,
David Gesswein
http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights
Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with?
Bob Kaplow
> Can anybody tell me the mark track codes for the various word types on
> a LINCtape? I am trying to program my TD8E to read some I have and this
> would make it much easier. I have seen the general info such as
> http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum/doco/PDP-12/UG-Chap3s6.html#3.32
> That says the info I need is in the PDP-12 Maintenance Manual.
>
> I posted this to pdp-8 lovers last night but didn't get a copy back so not
> sure if it went out.
There is some information about the TC-12 in my 1970 "laboratory computer
handbook"starting at page 204. If you'd email me back (I'm not onthe plante
MARS - yet!) with a snail mail address, I'll try to photocopy the pages for
you.
It's been a long time since I've even seen a PDP-12, but I was under the
impression that the format was pretty much the same, but right to left
instead of left to right. Like Hebrew :-)
We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible
resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.
26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Robert Krten
> In article <a175eh$gsp$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, d...@pdp8.net (David Gesswein) writes:
>> Can anybody tell me the mark track codes for the various word types on
>> a LINCtape? I am trying to program my TD8E to read some I have and this
>> would make it much easier. I have seen the general info such as
>> http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum/doco/PDP-12/UG-Chap3s6.html#3.32
>> That says the info I need is in the PDP-12 Maintenance Manual.
>>
>> I posted this to pdp-8 lovers last night but didn't get a copy back so not
>> sure if it went out.
> There is some information about the TC-12 in my 1970 "laboratory computer
> handbook"starting at page 204. If you'd email me back (I'm not onthe plante
> MARS - yet!) with a snail mail address, I'll try to photocopy the pages for
> you.
> It's been a long time since I've even seen a PDP-12, but I was under the
> impression that the format was pretty much the same, but right to left
> instead of left to right. Like Hebrew :-)
I'm taking delivery of a PDP-12 tomorrow :-) It's two cabinets, with the
second cabinet being half occupied with core to make it a full 32kW, and
the second half being a double-precision floating point unit. I can
hardly wait! (And an 11/R20 -- supposedly a "ruggedized" 11/20 :-))
Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
Cheers,
-RK
--
Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316.
Realtime Systems Architecture, Books, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com
Email my initials at parse dot com.
Al Kossow
wrote:
> Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
> set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
>
I would be interested in this as well.
Did you get any docs with it? I've been trying to find the first
volume of the maint manual, and docs on the FPP12.
What I have been able to locate has been scanned and is at
www.spies.com/aek/pdf/dec/pdp12
I still need to finish pdf-ing the schematic set.
I'm pretty sure there is a description of the LINCtape format
in the system reference manual.
David Gesswein
I needed so I am still looking (Thanks for the offer though).
In article <d%ZZ7.12728$8e.660897@news>,
Robert Krten <nosp...@parse.com> wrote:
>
>I'm taking delivery of a PDP-12 tomorrow :-) It's two cabinets, with the
>second cabinet being half occupied with core to make it a full 32kW, and
>the second half being a double-precision floating point unit. I can
>hardly wait! (And an 11/R20 -- supposedly a "ruggedized" 11/20 :-))
>
>Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
>set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
>
ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/images/os8/dial-decus.tu56
If you manage to run these let me know which are good.
TECO .SV 12 LIFE .SV 15 PAL12 .SV 20
XPIP8 .SV 15 SPCWAR.SV 19 TANK .SV 13
GIRLR .PI 48 BRTS .SV 15 RUNOFF.SV 24
ALPHA .SV 7 DIRECT.SV 8 GIRL .PI 52
BASIC .SV 9 SCROLL.SV 20 SNOOPY.PA 7
BCOMP .SV 17 STECO .SV 12 CHESS .SV 17
BLOAD .SV 7 MARKOS.12 63 CHESS .HL 4
DIAL16.WU 12 PARAM .SV 12 FOTP .SV 8
DIAL16.SV 5 SCROLL.WU 15 RUNOFF.RO 200
The Simh emulator from http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ can read these
images.
Using ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/misc/diagpack2_tc0x.rk05
> ../BIN/pdp8
PDP-8 simulator V2.8-5
sim> att rk0 diagpack2_tc0x.rk05
sim> att dt0 dial-decus.tu56
%DT: buffering file in memory
sim> att ptp spcwar.bn
PTP: creating new file
sim> bo rk0
.R CONVRT
*DTA0:SPCWAR.SV
*^C
.^E
Simulation stopped, PC: 01210 (JMP 1207)
sim> quit
Goodbye
DT: writing buffer to file
> exit
David Gesswein
Al Kossow <a...@spies.com> wrote:
>In article <d%ZZ7.12728$8e.660897@news>, nosp...@parse.com (Robert Krten)
>wrote:
>
>> Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
>> set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
>>
ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/images/os8/diag-games-kermit.rk05
>I'm pretty sure there is a description of the LINCtape format
>in the system reference manual.
>
It has a description but does not go into the detail of the binary patterns
of the mark track (at least I couldn't find it in either of the PDF's you
have). I suspect the information I am looking for is in volume 1 of the
maintenance manual.
Robert Krten
> In article <d%ZZ7.12728$8e.660897@news>, nosp...@parse.com (Robert Krten)
> wrote:
>> Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
>> set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
>>
> I would be interested in this as well.
> Did you get any docs with it? I've been trying to find the first
> volume of the maint manual, and docs on the FPP12.
No, but there's a second one where I got the first one, except that he
doesn't want to part with it. He claims to have a *full* set of
schematics. I asked him if he could copy if for me but he claimed the
cost would be prohibitive, 'cuz it's on 17" x 22" sheets :-(
I don't know what other docs the second source has. I'll let you know what
docs come with mine -- the guy I got it from sez that he's giving me a full set of
8/I prints, which will certainly be handy!
> What I have been able to locate has been scanned and is at
> www.spies.com/aek/pdf/dec/pdp12
Excellent, I'll take a look!
> I still need to finish pdf-ing the schematic set.
> I'm pretty sure there is a description of the LINCtape format
> in the system reference manual.
Cheers,
Robert Krten
> In article <aek-060102...@il0502a-dhcp193.apple.com>,
> Al Kossow <a...@spies.com> wrote:
>>In article <d%ZZ7.12728$8e.660897@news>, nosp...@parse.com (Robert Krten)
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
>>> set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
>>>
> If the PDP-8 OS/8 version works I have it on RKB0: partition of
> ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/images/os8/diag-games-kermit.rk05
Thanks, I'm snarfing it now. We'll see how well it works on the -12 :-)
Mike Ross
>In article <d%ZZ7.12728$8e.660897@news>, nosp...@parse.com (Robert Krten)
>wrote:
>
>> Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
>> set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
>>
>
>I would be interested in this as well.
>
>Did you get any docs with it? I've been trying to find the first
>volume of the maint manual, and docs on the FPP12.
Fear not - as promised I dug it all out of my storage unit in the UK
over the holiday... now returned to NYC and have all my pdp-12 docs
available.
email me your s-mail addy and I'll get them moving.
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
Rangers Catering Corps - 'we boil for the One, we fry for the One'
Al Kossow
> Can anybody tell me the mark track codes for the various word types on
> a LINCtape?
TC12-0-LWN of the PDP-12 print set has the mark track decoder on it
The codes appear to be
0 1 2 3
0 0 0 0 FM
0 0 0 1 CM
0 0 1 0 GM
1 0 0 1 DM
1 0 1 1 FM (not sure why FM is there twice, or what FM is)
1 1 1 0 BM (no rev BN mark code?)
1 1 1 1 IM
which I assume to mean:
IM BM GM DM CM CM CM BM(??) IM
| IBZ | BN | G | DATA | CS | CK | CK | RBN | IBZ |
+-----+----+---+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+
5 1 1 256 1 1 1 1 5
--
Please post if this is incorrect, so the correct information
gets into the news archives, Dave.
JimCook
>Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
>set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
The scary thing is I'm the guy who typed in the Mapleleaf Rag (about) 28 years
ago. Whew!
By the way, if you have something a floppy drive, the "pauses" (rests) in
ragtime music like the Mapleleaf Rag will allow the heads to reset with a
ka-chunk, all in time to the music.
The music program and the data files (music) is out there somewhere, available
for RTP.
Robert Krten
> Robert Krten allegedly wrote:
>>Anyone have spacewar and the mapleleaf rag that they can email me? I'll
>>set up a PC to simulate a teletype...
> The scary thing is I'm the guy who typed in the Mapleleaf Rag (about) 28 years
> ago. Whew!
Hey, that's cool! There were two 12's where mine came from, and the second guy
just wouldn't part with his. His final email was "and the 12's favourite
piece of music is the maple leaf rag... You can slow down the processor until
it's just a series of clicks, and then slowly speed it up... No, sorry, I can't
part with it". So, in a way, you've deprived me of a second PDP-12 :-) :-)
> By the way, if you have something a floppy drive, the "pauses" (rests) in
> ragtime music like the Mapleleaf Rag will allow the heads to reset with a
> ka-chunk, all in time to the music.
Kewl. I have a DF-32, no floppies though.
> The music program and the data files (music) is out there somewhere, available
> for RTP.
Ok; well, if you find it, or if anyone knows where it is, I'd appreciate a pointer.
Thanks,
Bob Kaplow
> Hey, that's cool! There were two 12's where mine came from, and the second guy
> just wouldn't part with his. His final email was "and the 12's favourite
> piece of music is the maple leaf rag... You can slow down the processor until
> it's just a series of clicks, and then slowly speed it up... No, sorry, I can't
> part with it". So, in a way, you've deprived me of a second PDP-12 :-) :-)
I remember having "Daisy" and running that on the PDP-12 while gradually
slowing down the clock. Just after watching "2001" of course.
I never knew that my friend Jim did PDP music back before I knew him. I wish
I had made an audio tape of all that PDP-8 music back when I was in college.
Any still got one that could do such a project, probably converting it to CD
these days?
This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a country
that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutional
heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the values
that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court
Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972
David Gesswein
Bob Kaplow <kapl...@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote:
>
>I never knew that my friend Jim did PDP music back before I knew him. I wish
>I had made an audio tape of all that PDP-8 music back when I was in college.
>Any still got one that could do such a project, probably converting it to CD
>these days?
>
to listen to an entire CD in one sitting. Did you all get better results?
Memories are always better than the real thing? I could do more sonngs
but decided at the time that was enough until I figured if it could be
better without cheating.
http://www.pdp8.net/sound/sound.shtml
Carl R. Friend
>
> In article <a175eh$gsp$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, d...@pdp8.net (David
> Gesswein) wrote:
>
> > Can anybody tell me the mark track codes for the various word
> > types on a LINCtape?
The Mark Track codes are as follows (from PDP-12 Maintenance Manual
Volume 1 - Principles of Operation; DEC-12-HR1A-D):
EM 0000 End Mark
IM 1111 Interblock Mark
BM 1110 Forward Block Mark
BM 0111 Reverse Block Mark
GM 0010 Guard Mark
DM 1001 Data Mark
FM 1011 Final Mark
CM 0001 Check Mark
BM gets in there twice because the controller needs to be able
to ascertain the tape position with the tape either running forwards
or backwards. Read/Write is performed only with the tape running
forward.
The basic format of the LINCtape is:
MARK WC* Function
EM 1024 Front End Zone
IM 4096 First Intermediate Zone
+BM 1 Forward Block Zone number
|GM 1 Guard Word
|DM 255 First 255 Data Words
|FM 1 Final Data Word
|CM 3 Check Marks
|RBM 1 Backward Block Number
+IM 5 Second Intermediate Zone
EM 2048 Back End Zone
* WC=Word Count
The items in the ersatz bracket above repeat for each block on
the tape. There are 512 usable blocks available on a normally-
formatted LINCtape out of 532 total blocks written during the
marking (formatting) process; blocks start at -10 (octal) and
progress upward to 1014 (also octal) - only block 0 through
777 (octal) are used for data storage.
--
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:crfr...@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+
| http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W |
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+
David Gesswein
TD8E and online PDP-8 databreak transfer board. The tapes seem to
be somewhat marginal on reading but if I try both transports one will
read the tape without errors most of the time.
I have some DIAL and OS/8 LINCtapes in my new web interface to the my
media images along with the previous OS/8 images. You can now view
and search individual files in the images. It doesn't handle COS or ETOS yet.
http://www.pdp8.net/images/
Here is the information from "Carl R. Friend" <carl....@rcsri.org>
updated from what I found reading LINCtapes on my PDP-8. Thanks to all
that helped.
The timing track needs to be inverted. I added a switch and a 7404 to
the TD8E interface cable board in the TU56 to select the timing track
polarity.
A guard word is found before the reverse block number.
The block numbers stored are 1's complement of the block number.
The three bits from the tape seem to be fed into 3 4 bit shift registers which
are concatinated to make the 12 bit data words.
The sum of all data words and the checksum word should be zero. The checksum
is frequently wrong on the extra data blocks at the beginning and end of
the tape which aren't part of the area used by the file system.
Each end of the tape have extra data blocks. For DIAL tapes they normally
start at block -8 and end at 524 with block 0-511 used for storage, 256
words/block. This only used part of the 260 foot reels so some DIAL tapes
are formatted for 896 data blocks (-8 to 908). I also have some Scotch
LINCtapes which are only 150 feet long.
OS/8,DS/8 tapes start at -16 and end at 1552 with block 0-1535 used for
storage. Most use 129 words/block but one used 128 words/block. Also the
reverse block number is 3 higher than the forward block number. From
MARKOS.12 /THE OFFSET HELPS SEARCH ON TAPE WITH SHORT BLOCKS
I found 5 IM words between blocks and didn't check the number at the
start or end of the tape.
The Mark Track codes are as follows (from PDP-12 Maintenance Manual
Volume 1 - Principles of Operation; DEC-12-HR1A-D):
Mark Track Codes:
EM 0000 End Mark
IM 1111 Interblock Mark
BM 1110 Forward Block Mark
(R) BM 0111 Reverse Block Mark
GM 0010 Guard Mark
DM 1001 Data Mark (first 255 words in a block)
FM 1011 Final Mark (the 256th word in a block)
CM 0001 Check Mark
The Block Mark and Reverse Block Marks are there because the
controller is capable of determining tape position in both forward
and reverse drive modes. Data are only transferred in the forward
direction so differing marks aren't required.
EM 1024 Front End Zone
IM 4096 First Intermediate Zone
+- BM 1 Forward Block Zone Number
| GM 1 Guard Word
| DM 255 First 255 Data Words
| FM 1 Final Data Word
| CM 3 Check Marks (first CM is checksum)
| GM 1 Guard Word
(R) BM 1 Reverse Block Number
+- IM 5 Second Intermediate Zone
EM 2048 Back End Zone
All counts above are in words, and the "bracketed" bits repeat
for each block. There are 512 (777 octal) blocks usable on a LINCtape;
blocks in the format start at -10 (octal) and proceed to 1014 (octal).
David Gesswein
http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights
Sergio Pedraja
* Is it available actually some PDP-12 simulator ?
* Is it need to run PDP-12 software, or... ?
* Is it possible to use the PDP-12 software (like these you have images
in your website) with one PDP-8 simulator ?
* What could be the way to install, by example, a couple of OS/8 TU56
tape images available in your website that refers to the PDP-12 ?
Thanks in advance. Greetings.
Sergio
David Gesswein
Sergio Pedraja <sped...@ono.com> wrote:
>Hello. A question from my absolute ignorance:
>
>* Is it available actually some PDP-12 simulator ?
>
>* Is it possible to use the PDP-12 software (like these you have images
> in your website) with one PDP-8 simulator ?
>
Only sort of. The DIAL tapes are for the DIAL operating system which
is a PDP-12 operating system and isn't going to run on the 8. I gave
a way of converting the DIAL executables to OS/8 executables but they
won't work under OS/8 if the program made any calls to DIAL or LINC hardware.
>* What could be the way to install, by example, a couple of OS/8 TU56
> tape images available in your website that refers to the PDP-12 ?
>
I have added a new convert function which will convert the OS/8 LINCtape
images to DECtape images or RK05 like images. Select the convert link
on the directory page. These images can the be used as non system tape
under an emulator. You will need to boot the emulator with a different
image. For SIMH you can use the TC08 bootable images:
http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/os8_html?act=dir;fn=images/os8/tc08diag.tu56;sort=name
or
http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/os8_html?act=dir;fn=images/misc_dectapes/AL-4711C-BA.tu56;sort=name
and then mount the converted LINCtapes as DT1. DIR DTA1: to see the directory
For treating them as "RK05" images for other emulators you can use any of
my bootable RK05 images such as
http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/os8_html?act=dir;fn=images/os8/diag-games-kermit.rk05;sort=name
and then mount the converted LINCtapes as RK1. DIR RKA1: to see the directory.
You will still run into the problem that some of the binaries will require
PDP-12 hardware to run correctly.