Elian
Michael Jordan
It is of grave concern that the Astrologers of the world cannot find the
time within their hearts to seek the communal freedom of the poor child
Elian of Cuba. There is no greater application of astrology than to free
another human being from tyranny.
In this case the tyranny is being applied by the United States of America
and specifically by the Republican Party of the United States which is
making it utterly impossible for the child Elian to return to his father in
Cuba. All real astrologers whom I have ever had the pleasure to meet have
been sensitive enough to understand these issues.
It is my earnest wish that the brainpower of the greatest active astrologers
of the World which this group represents begin to focus their efforts in
framing this issue in a manner which will eliminate this injustice and free
the individual child Elian and expose the horrid individuals who are
creating this outrage and embarrassing the US and the planet Earth by
implication.
I cannot explain nor would I want to muddy my mind with the perceived
motivations (corrupt in nature) which have precipitated this horror. The
puritans of America are beyond even the most absurd explanations.
Many Astrologers profess connections of power and influence, NOW is the
time to exercise them or forever keep these conceits quiet.
Help this Child return to his father.
--
Michael K. Jordan
astrog...@mindspring.com
Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/Phenomena_Calendar.htm
alan williams
Surely, Michael, could it not be argued that the boy's mother
risked - and lost - her life, in an attempt to escape from tyranny?
Should we not respect her wish that her son should grow up in the USA?
In article <85ue7b$qab$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>
"Michael Jordan" <astrog...@mindspring.com> wrote:
--
Alan Williams ... alco{at}pentile.demon.co.uk
doovinator
least the father come pick up his boy? I don't see any "tyranny"
involved. The kid looks happy to me; let the daddy come HERE and make
his point!
Axel Harvey
After reading this post I went to the Reuters-Excite website and
followed the thread of the story as best I could. Nowhere could I find
that the Cuban government was preventing Elian's father from travelling
to the United States. Has the U.S. govenment made it clear that the
father would be allowed to enter the U.S.? Isn't there some sort of
ridiculous embargo--imposed by the U.S., not by Cuba (who couldn't
enforce one anyway)? Please inform us ignorant Canadians and other
never-never people!
To keep this astrological, the great eclipse of last August touched
sensitive points in a number of Cuban-related maps. From Campion's
World Horoscopes, 2 ed.:
Treaty of Paris (whereby Spain relinquished sovereignty), 10 December
1898, 20:45 LMT, Paris. The relocation to Havana gives 15:52 Taurus
rising. Campion (p. 127) adds: "However, the aspirations of the Cubans
were aborted by the United States, which occupied the country on the
same day."
"Full independence was granted to Cuba by the USA" (by what right?) on
20 May 1902, Noon. Mars is at 17:12 Scorpio.
The announcement of the overthrow of the Batista régime was made by
Fidel Castro 2 January 1959, 1 a.m., in Havana. Mars is at 17:37 Taurus
and Uranus at 15:38 Leo.
I have also seen rectifications of Castro's birth which give him an
Ascendant in mid-Scorpio.
If Doovinator is interested I can supply data for the battle of
Chateauguay, just south of Montreal, wherein Canada escaped a fate
similar to Cuba's--but 85 years earlier--thanks to the totally
ungentlemanly behaviour of a French-Canadian officer in the War of
1812.
That said, I find it difficult to take sides in this dispute. Whenever
the media make much noise about a story, one must always remind
oneself, "I wasn't there." What are the different branches of Elian's
family really like? What is the real story behind the desperate trip
the mother took with her son and lover? We don't know anything, despite
the meaty "human-interest" stories the media put on our plates.
Pavilions of Sun
>On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, doovinator wrote:
>> What do you have to say about Castro, Michael? Shouldn't at the very
>> least the father come pick up his boy? I don't see any "tyranny"
>> involved. The kid looks happy to me; let the daddy come HERE and make
>> his point!
>After reading this post I went to the Reuters-Excite website and
>followed the thread of the story as best I could. Nowhere could I find
>that the Cuban government was preventing Elian's father from travelling
>to the United States. Has the U.S. govenment made it clear that the
>father would be allowed to enter the U.S.? Isn't there some sort of
>ridiculous embargo--imposed by the U.S., not by Cuba (who couldn't
>enforce one anyway)? Please inform us ignorant Canadians and other
>never-never people!
Since the story has turned into such a circus, I'm sure
the respective governments of Cuba and the US could "work
something out" to get the father to Florida if there were
enough of a hew and cry. After all, Saturn is squaring
Uranus, giving all sorts of opportunites to break with past
patterns. With respect to "what's best" for Elian, we have
no idea what his relationship has been like with his father,
which I think was part of DJ's point.
--
Axel Harvey
> Since the story has turned into such a circus, I'm sure
> the respective governments of Cuba and the US could "work
> something out" to get the father to Florida if there were
> enough of a hew and cry. After all, Saturn is squaring
> Uranus, giving all sorts of opportunites to break with past
> patterns. With respect to "what's best" for Elian, we have
> no idea what his relationship has been like with his father,
> which I think was part of DJ's point.
Then why the reference to Castro? It seems oddly out of place, as does
the frequent reference to "Communist-ruled Cuba" in wire stories about
this affair. Concerning the relationship with the father, as I said in
my post, we simply don't know. So we agree there.
Michael Jordan
No way to argue that, she was just chasing a boyfriend who
was promising her the Moon in America. The guy was a hustler.
tyranny?...in Cuba? that's just plain silly! You are a funny guy!
Neptune Kronos: Misfortune to one's superiors. Misfortune to the parent.
Confusing the boss or the authorities and make it difficult for them.
Diplomacy. Lofty diplomacy. Vast deception. Incompetent management. The
notable uncertainty. Vapor. Air. Annulment of decrees.-
Michael K. Jordan
astrog...@mindspring.com
Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/Phenomena_Calendar.htm
alan williams <al...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0001180...@pentile.demon.co.uk...
======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Does anyone know Elian's date of birth?
Michael Jordan
The reference to Castro is meant to bring out the unthinking
kneejerk reactions that have colored the Republican party medulla
oblongata since they lost their gambling and prostitution holdings in
Cuba in 1959 when Castro threw out the quisling Batista.
The astrology you brought out is welcome along with the Uranian transiting
configuration which I have as Neptune Node and Kronos on the fifth harmonic:
Compelled to have dealings with insincere people. Experiencing maneuvers of
deception. Bad contact with the state. Unions dissolved through the power
of the state . Divorced. Connections among the leading people dissolve.
Unsuccessful connection with the authorities.
This incident comes at time when the Right Wing is reeling from the positive
improvements with the Cuban people and they have seen their campaign of
hatred give way to retional diplomacy with this current administration.
--
Michael K. Jordan
astrog...@mindspring.com
Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/Phenomena_Calendar.htm
Axel Harvey <a...@cam.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.04.10001...@localhost.localdomain...
alan williams
"Michael Jordan" <astrog...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Not really Alan,-
> No way to argue that, she was just chasing a boyfriend who
> was promising her the Moon in America. The guy was a hustler.
> tyranny?...in Cuba? that's just plain silly! You are a funny guy!
Sillier than your remark that the US of A is tyrannical?
We don't hear of boatloads of US citizens escaping to Cuba -
perhaps these stories are suppressed by the running dogs of
the tyrannical capitalist news media?
Anyway, I see no mileage in this one from an astrological
perspective. Does anyone have the data for Fidel Castro?
The only sources I've found so far are speculative.
>
> Neptune Kronos: Misfortune to one's superiors. Misfortune to the parent.
> Confusing the boss or the authorities and make it difficult for them.
> Diplomacy. Lofty diplomacy. Vast deception. Incompetent management. The
> notable uncertainty. Vapor. Air. Annulment of decrees.-
>
>
> Michael K. Jordan
> astrog...@mindspring.com
> Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
> http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/Phenomena_Calendar.htm
>
>
> > > --
> > > Michael K. Jordan
> > > astrog...@mindspring.com
> > > Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
> > > http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/Phenomena_Calendar.htm
> >
Axel Harvey
> perhaps these stories are suppressed by the running dogs of
> the tyrannical capitalist news media?
This is getting awfully off-topic, but it may be pertinent to remark
that no embargo is being imposed upon the U.S. of A. by its biggest
potential customer (whoever *that* might be), and that consequently
food is not rationed there. People being the way they are, hunger is
more likely to make them move than tyranny.
idohair
dumb one in my opinion!) so that is what is really stopping him to go to the
states and get his son, if he goes teh the states, he will never see his
family again, it is very hard to leave Cuba to begin with, i dont think it
is that he does not want to, he just cant
sandra(idohair)
Axel Harvey <a...@cam.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.04.10001...@localhost.localdomain...
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, doovinator wrote:
>
> > What do you have to say about Castro, Michael? Shouldn't at the very
> > least the father come pick up his boy? I don't see any "tyranny"
> > involved. The kid looks happy to me; let the daddy come HERE and make
> > his point!
>
> After reading this post I went to the Reuters-Excite website and
> followed the thread of the story as best I could. Nowhere could I find
> that the Cuban government was preventing Elian's father from travelling
> to the United States. Has the U.S. govenment made it clear that the
> father would be allowed to enter the U.S.? Isn't there some sort of
> ridiculous embargo--imposed by the U.S., not by Cuba (who couldn't
> enforce one anyway)? Please inform us ignorant Canadians and other
> never-never people!
>
Michael Jordan
It is certainly interesting to note, and a kudo to Sun Sign Astrology
that the only two people willing to weigh in on the side of
humanitarian concerns in this Elian thing are we two solar tropical
Aquarians.
Pavilions of Sun
>It is certainly interesting to note, and a kudo to Sun Sign Astrology
>that the only two people willing to weigh in on the side of
>humanitarian concerns in this Elian thing are we two solar tropical
>Aquarians.
Huh? In your original post (if I remember correctly) you
practically accused, by implication, tyranny on the part of
anyone who wasn't desperate for Elian to return to his father.
The fact is, it isn't known whether Elian had any sort of
loving, or nurturing bond with his father. It isn't known
(to me anyway) whether Elian even remembers life with his
father. So why should any of us be desperate for Elian to
be in his father's custody *until* we know whether that's
the best place for him?
It strikes me that your opinion has a whole lot more to do
with anger at certain US political groups than it has to
do with the actual well being of Elian himself.
And I'm sorry if I'm perpetuating an off-topic trend in
this thread, but I am offended by the implication that
only Tropical Aquarius Suns have any sense of compassion
for their fellow humans.
--
alan williams
Axel Harvey <a...@cam.org> wrote:
> > We don't hear of boatloads of US citizens escaping to Cuba -
> > perhaps these stories are suppressed by the running dogs of
> > the tyrannical capitalist news media?
>
> This is getting awfully off-topic,
Nah, it's Mundane Astrology, innit :)
> but it may be pertinent to remark
> that no embargo is being imposed upon the U.S. of A. by its biggest
> potential customer (whoever *that* might be), and that consequently
> food is not rationed there. People being the way they are, hunger is
> more likely to make them move than tyranny.
But isn't it also the tyranny of an imposed economic system that
doesn't work that leads to rationing, USA embargo notwithstanding?
The same system as the one that didn't work in the Soviet Union,
the collapse of which led to Cuba losing around $5bn/year in Soviet
support. So there's hunger and rationing in Cuba - yet their military
still consumes a greater proportion of GDP than the USA, and more
than three times the proportion in Canada!
And in article <8657pi$ok9$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net>
Michael just wrote:
> Axel,
>
> It is certainly interesting to note, and a kudo to Sun Sign Astrology
> that the only two people willing to weigh in on the side of
> humanitarian concerns in this Elian thing are we two solar tropical
> Aquarians.
Well, Michael ...
As a _lunar_ Aquarian I'm more interested in the welfare of the
general population than that of any particular individual. I'm a
little surprised that you're not too :)
Axel Harvey
> Axel,
> It is certainly interesting to note, and a kudo to Sun Sign Astrology
> that the only two people willing to weigh in on the side of
> humanitarian concerns in this Elian thing are we two solar tropical
> Aquarians.
Dear Michael, thanks for your humanitarian award but I assure you it is
utterly undeserved. (Unless you mean someone else, not me!)
Now to inject a little bit more astrology into this thread, I am an
Aquarian with Sun and Mercury square Uranus in Taurus, also with a
Mars-Saturn conjunction favourably placed by sect. I am opinionated,
elitist, and my favourite politician is Nero.
As concerns Elian specifically, I made a point in one message of saying
that I was not sufficiently informed to have an opinion. I shall go
further: when the media talk a great deal about the Moon, I
automatically begin to doubt the Moon's existence.
True, I bristled when somebody mentioned Castro and tyranny in the same
breath, and that's what got me caught up in the thread. The Cubans I
have met *do* suffer for lack of food; they *do not* all want to move
to the U.S. of A. The so-called "mature industrial democracies" *are
not* the only possible model of human existence. Anyway, like a true
Aquarian I was reacting more to general principles than to immediate
human interest.
doovinator
'nother lunar Aquarian
David Hecht
"And I'm sorry if I'm perpetuating an off-topic trend in this thread,
but I am offended by the implication that only Tropical Aquarius Suns
have any sense of compassion for their fellow humans."
Now this is something I've seen so often over the years, i.e. a rather
spontaneous reaction on the part of "Leo sun" natives to almost any sort
of exclusionary alloofness on the part of someone with "sun-Aquarius". I
figure it is a combination of the fact that "Aquarius" is the higher
octave of "Leo" which is, after all, a "fire sign" hence given to
dramatic responces. However, the manner, the predictability of this,
never fails to amaze me as many times as I have seen or even provoked it
through substituting comments in lieu of the ("Aquarian") presence.
Don't know how far this goes to verify "astrology" and certainly meant
as no offense to "Gail" or the legions of her bretheren who have
preceeded her but interesting none the less and worthy of some sort of
consideration.
Dave
>oh I hope this gets posted......
nothing is really peripheral to meaning
pro...@banet.net
this issue on tv, my stomach turns upside down. I wonder how people here would
feel if an American boy was rescued by some other country after a shipwreck and
the rescueing country decided to keep the boy, instead of sending him back to
his father.
At the beginning we could say that Elian was rescued by the American Coast
Guard. Now we realise the rescue operation turned out to be a kidnapping!
[]s,
procyon
Michael Jordan wrote:
> Colleagues:
>
> It is of grave concern that the Astrologers of the world cannot find the
> time within their hearts to seek the communal freedom of the poor child
> Elian of Cuba. There is no greater application of astrology than to free
> another human being from tyranny.
>
> In this case the tyranny is being applied by the United States of America
> and specifically by the Republican Party of the United States which is
> making it utterly impossible for the child Elian to return to his father in
> Cuba. All real astrologers whom I have ever had the pleasure to meet have
> been sensitive enough to understand these issues.
>
> It is my earnest wish that the brainpower of the greatest active astrologers
> of the World which this group represents begin to focus their efforts in
> framing this issue in a manner which will eliminate this injustice and free
> the individual child Elian and expose the horrid individuals who are
> creating this outrage and embarrassing the US and the planet Earth by
> implication.
>
> I cannot explain nor would I want to muddy my mind with the perceived
> motivations (corrupt in nature) which have precipitated this horror. The
> puritans of America are beyond even the most absurd explanations.
>
> Many Astrologers profess connections of power and influence, NOW is the
> time to exercise them or forever keep these conceits quiet.
>
> Help this Child return to his father.
>
pro...@banet.net
boy is not totally orphan. Now, I ask you: shouldn't his father's wishes be taken
into account since he is the sole responsible person for Elian? Why are you
discarding Elian's father?
Would you accept to have your son kidnapped by some foreign country? Would you
give him up?
[]s,
Nilsa (procyon)
alan williams wrote:
> Surely, Michael, could it not be argued that the boy's mother
> risked - and lost - her life, in an attempt to escape from tyranny?
>
> Should we not respect her wish that her son should grow up in the USA?
>
> In article <85ue7b$qab$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>
pro...@banet.net
does Castro has to do with the fact that Elian has a father and he's
entitled by nature and law to live with his father? How come Castro
suddenly became part of Elian's family? I didn't know he (Castro) was
also a relative!...
Elian's father DOESN'T have to come to the US to pick up his boy, it is
the US that has the obligation of sending the boy back as soon as he was
cleared by medical doctors.
You say the father should come here to "make his point?" ???? What point?
What are you talking about? The man is Elian's father and that's that,
doovinator, there's no point to be made about their biological
relationship!
As for Elian being happy you are deadly wrong, dear. His relatives here
lied to him, they told him he was "on vacation" and would soon be going
back to his daddy. Now Elian is all upset and depressed because they took
him to school and he knows that little boys in vacation don't have to go
to school. Yes, he was happy because he believed in their lies. Now he
realised there's something fishy going on and he said time and again "I
want to be with my father".
[]s,
procyon
pro...@banet.net
Are you suggesting that we, the Almighty Americans are to be the judges of the relationship between
Elian and his father, two Cubans nationals? If we have no idea of what kind of relationship they have is
because we shouldn't have any idea anyway since it's none of our business, got it?
[]s,
procyon
Pavilions of Sun wrote:
> In <Pine.LNX.4.04.10001...@localhost.localdomain> Axel Harvey <a...@cam.org> writes:
>
> >On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, doovinator wrote:
>
> >> What do you have to say about Castro, Michael? Shouldn't at the very
> >> least the father come pick up his boy? I don't see any "tyranny"
> >> involved. The kid looks happy to me; let the daddy come HERE and make
> >> his point!
>
> >After reading this post I went to the Reuters-Excite website and
> >followed the thread of the story as best I could. Nowhere could I find
> >that the Cuban government was preventing Elian's father from travelling
> >to the United States. Has the U.S. govenment made it clear that the
> >father would be allowed to enter the U.S.? Isn't there some sort of
> >ridiculous embargo--imposed by the U.S., not by Cuba (who couldn't
> >enforce one anyway)? Please inform us ignorant Canadians and other
> >never-never people!
>
> Since the story has turned into such a circus, I'm sure
> the respective governments of Cuba and the US could "work
> something out" to get the father to Florida if there were
> enough of a hew and cry. After all, Saturn is squaring
> Uranus, giving all sorts of opportunites to break with past
> patterns. With respect to "what's best" for Elian, we have
> no idea what his relationship has been like with his father,
> which I think was part of DJ's point.
> --
pro...@banet.net
This is not the case with Elian's father. He was cleared to live the country and
come to America but refused since the beginning and it's very understandable
why: he won't submit to the arrogance of a foreigner country who believe to have
the power to decide if he is a fit parent. From the beginning the US said they
wanted Elian's father here to "check him out", now who in hell gave the US the
power to decide if a foreign born would be a good father to his (also) foreign
born son in a foreign country? This is the point you are missing. If this was my
kid I also wouldn't submit to such an arrogance, would you?
[]s,
Nilsa (procyon)
idohair wrote:
> if he father leaves Cuba, he can never return, it is Casto's law, (and a
> dumb one in my opinion!) so that is what is really stopping him to go to the
> states and get his son, if he goes teh the states, he will never see his
> family again, it is very hard to leave Cuba to begin with, i dont think it
> is that he does not want to, he just cant
>
> sandra(idohair)
>
> Axel Harvey <a...@cam.org> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.04.10001...@localhost.localdomain...
> > On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, doovinator wrote:
> >
> > > What do you have to say about Castro, Michael? Shouldn't at the very
> > > least the father come pick up his boy? I don't see any "tyranny"
> > > involved. The kid looks happy to me; let the daddy come HERE and make
> > > his point!
> >
> > After reading this post I went to the Reuters-Excite website and
> > followed the thread of the story as best I could. Nowhere could I find
> > that the Cuban government was preventing Elian's father from travelling
> > to the United States. Has the U.S. govenment made it clear that the
> > father would be allowed to enter the U.S.? Isn't there some sort of
> > ridiculous embargo--imposed by the U.S., not by Cuba (who couldn't
> > enforce one anyway)? Please inform us ignorant Canadians and other
> > never-never people!
> >
Michael Jordan
Thank you most kindly and sincerely.
I have suffered deeply in this group without sleep in my selfless
effort to find concern for justice for this little boy.
I had a suspicion that the problem lay in the Nodal conjunction
with Neptune and 4 Leo since these points are incredibly important
in astrology. The Seven Sisters of Oil have most of their influence
through this degree and even Mick Jagger, Carl Jung, and the grand
Leo aristocracy are all invested in 4-5 Leo. If we are to discuss astrology
lets get on with it and the real issues of conquest and power
which these points represent. I welcome your obvious incisive insight.
It could get very interesting.
--
Michael K. Jordan
astrog...@mindspring.com
Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/Phenomena_Calendar.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/2000_ura-pos.htm
David Hecht <voidof...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8116-388...@storefull-111.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
pro...@banet.net
is not perfect that's a Cuban problem, not an American one. Do you understand that we don't have the
right to be intruding in the private life of foreigners and their countries? For chrissake, it's none
of our business. Elian is Cuban, his father is Cuban, he has a family in Cuba and that's that!
[]s,
procyon
Pavilions of Sun wrote:
> In <8657pi$ok9$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net> "Michael Jordan" <astrog...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >It is certainly interesting to note, and a kudo to Sun Sign Astrology
> >that the only two people willing to weigh in on the side of
> >humanitarian concerns in this Elian thing are we two solar tropical
> >Aquarians.
>
> Huh? In your original post (if I remember correctly) you
> practically accused, by implication, tyranny on the part of
> anyone who wasn't desperate for Elian to return to his father.
>
> The fact is, it isn't known whether Elian had any sort of
> loving, or nurturing bond with his father. It isn't known
> (to me anyway) whether Elian even remembers life with his
> father. So why should any of us be desperate for Elian to
> be in his father's custody *until* we know whether that's
> the best place for him?
>
> It strikes me that your opinion has a whole lot more to do
> with anger at certain US political groups than it has to
> do with the actual well being of Elian himself.
>
> And I'm sorry if I'm perpetuating an off-topic trend in
> this thread, but I am offended by the implication that
> only Tropical Aquarius Suns have any sense of compassion
> for their fellow humans.
>
> --
Pavilions of Sun
>Pavilions, we don't have to know anything about Elian's relationship with his father, if the father
>is not perfect that's a Cuban problem, not an American one. Do you understand that we don't have the
>right to be intruding in the private life of foreigners and their countries? For chrissake, it's none
>of our business. Elian is Cuban, his father is Cuban, he has a family in Cuba and that's that!
I think you must have completely misunderstood me. My point
was that we, strangers, have no say in this matter because
we do not know the necessary details. I would hope that
a team of Cuban and American social workers would assess
the situation first hand, and make the best decision for
Elian. As for "blood belonging to blood" you might take
note that children are represented by the *fifth* house in
astrology -- not the second.
--
Tom Olson
>I can't believe what you just wrote, Pavilions...
>
>Are you suggesting that we, the Almighty Americans are to be the judges of
>the relationship between
>Elian and his father, two Cubans nationals? If we have no idea of what kind
>of relationship they have is
>got it?
I see you don'tt get it. Is this the moderated group? !
>[]s,
>
>procyon
I can't believe what *you* just wrote. Here, lets look a little closer at what
Gail (Pavilions) wrote:
Gail said:
- - - - -
Since the story has turned into such a circus, I'm sure
the respective governments of Cuba and the US could "work
something out" to get the father to Florida if there were
> enough of a hew and cry. After all, Saturn is squaring
Uranus, giving all sorts of opportunites to break with past
patterns. With respect to "what's best" for Elian, we have
no idea what his relationship has been like with his father,
which I think was part of DJ's point.
- - - - -
Now, in other words she is suggesting that the two governments work together to
get the father to Florida. And has stated something that you have spun around
180 degrees, and that is, that we have no idea what the relationship with the
father has been. That is not making a decision for them. That would be
helping them to make their own decisons.
>
>Pavilions of Sun wrote:
>
>> In <Pine.LNX.4.04.10001...@localhost.localdomain> Axel
>Harvey <a...@cam.org> writes:
>>
>> >On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, doovinator wrote:
>>
>> >> What do you have to say about Castro, Michael? Shouldn't at the very
>> >> least the father come pick up his boy? I don't see any "tyranny"
>> >> involved. The kid looks happy to me; let the daddy come HERE and make
>> >> his point!
>>
>> >After reading this post I went to the Reuters-Excite website and
>> >followed the thread of the story as best I could. Nowhere could I find
>> >that the Cuban government was preventing Elian's father from travelling
>> >to the United States. Has the U.S. govenment made it clear that the
>> >father would be allowed to enter the U.S.? Isn't there some sort of
>> >ridiculous embargo--imposed by the U.S., not by Cuba (who couldn't
>> >enforce one anyway)? Please inform us ignorant Canadians and other
>> >never-never people!
>>
>> Since the story has turned into such a circus, I'm sure
>> the respective governments of Cuba and the US could "work
>> something out" to get the father to Florida if there were
>> enough of a hew and cry. After all, Saturn is squaring
>> Uranus, giving all sorts of opportunites to break with past
>> patterns. With respect to "what's best" for Elian, we have
>> no idea what his relationship has been like with his father,
>> which I think was part of DJ's point.
>> --
Tom J Olson
blowin' in the wind
Tom Olson
>Gail notes the following:
>
>"And I'm sorry if I'm perpetuating an off-topic trend in this thread,
>but I am offended by the implication that only Tropical Aquarius Suns
>have any sense of compassion for their fellow humans."
>
>spontaneous reaction on the part of "Leo sun" natives to almost any sort
>of exclusionary alloofness on the part of someone with "sun-Aquarius".
I'm a Libra with Sagittarius Moon, and I found it offensive also. You know,
after reading your response here, David I actually had to check and see that if
I was truly reading the moderated group.
>figure it is a combination of the fact that "Aquarius" is the higher
>octave of "Leo"
There are no octaves among different signs.
> which is, after all, a "fire sign" hence given to
>dramatic responces.
Is your sun sign given to vindictive responses? I'm sure not, thank goodness.
That's just an individual quirk and could be indicated through some aspect in a
chart...
> However, the manner, the predictability of this,
>never fails to amaze me as many times as I have seen or even provoked it
The habit of pre-judging sun signs (Leos, for example) and then trying to
verify it through others, is called projection, I believe.
>through substituting comments in lieu of the ("Aquarian") presence.
>Don't know how far this goes to verify "astrology"
Not far.
> and certainly meant
>as no offense to "Gail"
My comments are also certainly meant as no offense to anyone.
> or the legions of her bretheren who have
>preceeded her but interesting none the less and worthy of some sort of
>consideration.
>Dave
>
>>oh I hope this gets posted......
>
>nothing is really peripheral to meaning
Donna Sneed
alan williams
pro...@banet.net wrote:
> Sorry Alan but the mother's wishes don't count anymore since she's dead and the
> boy is not totally orphan. Now, I ask you: shouldn't his father's wishes be taken
> into account since he is the sole responsible person for Elian? Why are you
> discarding Elian's father?
Of course, Nilsa, his father's wishes should be taken into account -
which is not the same thing as acceding to them entirely. In child
custody cases here, the child's welfare takes precedence over that
of either parent.
> Would you accept to have your son kidnapped by some foreign country? Would you
> give him up?
Kidnapped? He was rescued from the sea, after his mother and step-
father had drowned. The USA seems keen to get him back to Cuba,
it's his family in Miami who are fighting it. I don't presume to
have enough information about the parties concerned or their
situations, to decide the best outcome; and I doubt if anyone else
here has either. I simply got into this thread because I reject
the concept of "tyranny" applied to the USA in comparison with Cuba.
I'm sure we both hope for the best to come of this, the difference
is that you think you know what that is, and I think that neither
of us does.
> > > --
> > > Michael K. Jordan
> > > astrog...@mindspring.com
> > > Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
> > > http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/Phenomena_Calendar.htm
> >
Axel Harvey
> Kidnapped? He was rescued from the sea, after his mother and step-
> father had drowned. The USA seems keen to get him back to Cuba,
> it's his family in Miami who are fighting it. I don't presume to
> have enough information about the parties concerned or their
> situations, to decide the best outcome; and I doubt if anyone else
> here has either. I simply got into this thread because I reject
> the concept of "tyranny" applied to the USA in comparison with Cuba.
I agree we don't know enough about the facts of the matter, although
the testimony of the two grandmothers, who I think are now in the U.S.
of A., is hard to dispute. As for the political namecalling, it is
totally irrelevant. Still, I have met Cubans who are very happy that
the régime there is what it is, despite the sacrifices they have to
make--and many of which they wouldn't have to make if the world's most
powerful country wasn't so callously moralistic towards régimes it
doesn't approve of. You'd think they own the entire western
hemisphere...
Heather
you have "suffered deeply" without sleep because of THIS newsgroup?
are you feeling okay? sheesh.... I'm concerned about this matter
but don't care to spar with you since you hate my political party...but...
I think you need to be a bit more objective here Michael.
Heather
Michael Jordan wrote in message <868u03$d5u$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>...
>David,
>
>Thank you most kindly and sincerely.
>I have suffered deeply in this group without sleep in my selfless
>effort to find concern for justice for this little boy.
>
>I had a suspicion that the problem lay in the Nodal conjunction
>with Neptune and 4 Leo since these points are incredibly important
>in astrology. The Seven Sisters of Oil have most of their influence
>through this degree and even Mick Jagger, Carl Jung, and the grand
>Leo aristocracy are all invested in 4-5 Leo. If we are to discuss
astrology
>lets get on with it and the real issues of conquest and power
>which these points represent. I welcome your obvious incisive insight.
>
>It could get very interesting.
>
>
>--
>Michael K. Jordan
>astrog...@mindspring.com
>Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
>http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/Phenomena_Calendar.htm
>http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/2000_ura-pos.htm
>
>
>
>
>David Hecht <voidof...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>news:8116-388...@storefull-111.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>> Gail notes the following:
>>
>> "And I'm sorry if I'm perpetuating an off-topic trend in this thread,
>> but I am offended by the implication that only Tropical Aquarius Suns
>> have any sense of compassion for their fellow humans."
>>
>> Now this is something I've seen so often over the years, i.e. a rather
>> spontaneous reaction on the part of "Leo sun" natives to almost any sort
>> of exclusionary alloofness on the part of someone with "sun-Aquarius". I
>> figure it is a combination of the fact that "Aquarius" is the higher
>> octave of "Leo" which is, after all, a "fire sign" hence given to
>> dramatic responces. However, the manner, the predictability of this,
>> never fails to amaze me as many times as I have seen or even provoked it
>> through substituting comments in lieu of the ("Aquarian") presence.
>> Don't know how far this goes to verify "astrology" and certainly meant
>> as no offense to "Gail" or the legions of her bretheren who have
Michael Jordan
I am proud and honored that you would be willing to express your valued
insight into this most sordid example of power brokering. Even the most
conservative
papers in my area in California are beginning to see that the US must
maintain its
domestic laws in this international setting and let the boy go back to Cuba
and his father.
Many of those throughout the world who responded inappropriately do not
realise that the US maintains a Naval base on Cuban shores in Guantanamo
Bay,
"Gitmo" as it is called. Imagine what would happen to a Cuban base if it
was stationed in Key West! It is a wise and deeply diplomatic move for the
Cuban people to send the grandmothers of the boy here rather than the
father who is in deep
outrage at this. I hope to God that they are able to carry the
compassionate concern
in a manner which is so deep that the hard hearted bastards of the US
Congress will melt and
give in to rationality and obey our laws on international relations with
Cuba.
Thank you again!
--
Michael K. Jordan
astrog...@mindspring.com
Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/2000_ura-pos.htm
<pro...@banet.net> wrote in message news:3887F47D...@banet.net...
> Thanks for shaking the truth about this poor boy, Michael. I can't even
watch
> this issue on tv, my stomach turns upside down. I wonder how people here
would
> feel if an American boy was rescued by some other country after a
shipwreck and
> the rescueing country decided to keep the boy, instead of sending him back
to
> his father.
> At the beginning we could say that Elian was rescued by the American Coast
> Guard. Now we realise the rescue operation turned out to be a kidnapping!
>
> []s,
>
> procyon
>
Heather
his zipper up. Castro........... now that's a whole different ball game.
I guarantee you if the boy was from Tony Blair's
neck of the woods this wouldn't be happening. By the way I didn't read
that our country kidnapped the boy.... excuse me I have to go
laugh now........this is like the kids game "telephone" where the
story gets embellished more by the second....... also I only believe
a fraction of what the media reports....one way or the other.
Heather
pro...@banet.net wrote in message <3887F47D...@banet.net>...
Carolefarm
represented by the *fifth* house in
astrology -- not the second.>>>
Could you please explain further.
Thanks,
Carole
Pavilions of Sun
My point was that children are not the belongings, possessions,
or resources of their parents. It could be argued that the
5th house being succedent has the connotation of resources, but
not by me. It seems useful to point out that chidren are not
their parents possessions, nor owned by their parents, because
there seem to be a lot of people who still think in ownership
terms when it comes to kids, spouses, and animals.
--
Axel Harvey
astrology, particularly with the second house and Mercury.
The second house: now clearly, children are not chattel. They are
represented by the fifth house, not the second. Any parent who treats
an offspring as a possession will sooner or later encounter disaster.
But equally clearly, "belonging" and "possession" are not the same.
Consider the following: my great-grandfather
my street
my school
my wart
my allergy
my country
all of which imply belonging in one direction or another (either I
belong to it or it belongs to me) but none of which entail possession
in the second-house sense. I can't sell my street, nor can it sell me.
Parents and children certainly belong to each other--it is a
relationship of warmth and passion, for better or for worse.
Mercury. In some cultures within the English-speaking world, people
have a problem with polysemy, the tendency of a word's meaning to vary
according to context. This is certainly true of the U.S., where a
campaign against polysemy has been waged for much longer than the
expression "politically correct" has existed--hence the need for
farmers to have roosters and donkeys in their barnyards instead of
cocks and asses, and the gradual replacement of the preposition
"behind" by the prepositional phrase "back of." I must admit the
tendency has crept into Canada, because I once had an Irish-Canadian
lady friend who wouldn't allow me to say "my" anything--she too
believed that any phrasing which implied belonging ipso facto implied a
chattel claim.
So when someone writes about "blood belonging to blood" he is not
necessarily being a politically incorrect ogre. He is recognizing a
fact of passion.
Pavilions of Sun
Heh! I didn't know about that. When I was a kid, I decided
that the words "somebody", "nobody", etc., were vulgar because
of the reference to "body" exclusionary of soul. Since that
time I've used the substitutes "someone", "no one", etc.,
because they suit my aesthetic sense so much better (and they
sound better, too, much softer). I'm sensitive to language.
I wouldn't go as far as what you described above, though,
because I see a lot of charm in the words "cocks", "asses",
and "behind". :)
>I must admit the
>tendency has crept into Canada, because I once had an Irish-Canadian
>lady friend who wouldn't allow me to say "my" anything--she too
>believed that any phrasing which implied belonging ipso facto implied a
>chattel claim.
I think the possessive "my" is acceptable and denotes a
relationship to something, in context. It would scare me
if people stopped using "my", because to me that would
indicate an emotional disconnect. But I think it's
possible to be a "my" user and still recognize the non-ownership
factor when it comes to relationships.
>So when someone writes about "blood belonging to blood" he is not
>necessarily being a politically incorrect ogre. He is recognizing a
>fact of passion.
Yes, I agree. But there's a thin line sometimes between the
truth of this and some of the destructive behaviors which
are probably present within all relationships, which are
based on ownership 'assumption'. Having said that, I read
an essay by a certain psychologist last year which suggested
that having any sort of relationship with one's father, even
a heavily abusive one, is better than having none at all, and
I think I agree with that. At least then there is something
to work with in terms of a male role model. I think I probably
would draw the line though in cases of extreme (broken bones)
physical or sexual abuse, whereas the writer of the essay
might not.
--
Peter Hillyar-Russ
mmhotmail.com> writes
>well the most people need to fear in America is a leader that can't keep
>his zipper up. Castro........... now that's a whole different ball game.
>I guarantee you if the boy was from Tony Blair's
>neck of the woods this wouldn't be happening.
matters of family distress should be resolved differently depending on
the US Government's attitude to the government of the parties' home
country.
--
Peter Hillyar-Russ
pro...@banet.net
The only correction to be made here is "we strangers have no say in this matter..." not because we don't
have all details as you state Pavilions, but because it's none of our business and this is substantially
different then not having the details, understand? Details or no details, we shouldn't be involved in this
imbroglio at all.
[]s,
procyon (Nilsa)
Pavilions of Sun wrote:
> In <3887FCF7...@banet.net> pro...@banet.net writes:
>
> >Pavilions, we don't have to know anything about Elian's relationship with his father, if the father
> >is not perfect that's a Cuban problem, not an American one. Do you understand that we don't have the
> >right to be intruding in the private life of foreigners and their countries? For chrissake, it's none
> >of our business. Elian is Cuban, his father is Cuban, he has a family in Cuba and that's that!
>
> I think you must have completely misunderstood me. My point
> was that we, strangers, have no say in this matter because
> we do not know the necessary details. I would hope that
> a team of Cuban and American social workers would assess
> the situation first hand, and make the best decision for
> Elian. As for "blood belonging to blood" you might take
> note that children are represented by the *fifth* house in
> astrology -- not the second.
> --
pro...@banet.net
You mention 'child custody cases' but we don't have a 'case' here and this is where we
diverge. If the Cuban Family Court wants to start a case regarding the custody of Elian
that's their problem and we shouldn't be discussing it since it's out of our
jurisdiction. So, if we don't have a 'case' here...
alan williams wrote:
> In article <3887F5B8...@banet.net>
> pro...@banet.net wrote:
>
> > Sorry Alan but the mother's wishes don't count anymore since she's dead and the
> > boy is not totally orphan. Now, I ask you: shouldn't his father's wishes be taken
> > into account since he is the sole responsible person for Elian? Why are you
> > discarding Elian's father?
>
> Of course, Nilsa, his father's wishes should be taken into account -
> which is not the same thing as acceding to them entirely. In child
> custody cases here, the child's welfare takes precedence over that
> of either parent.
>
> > Would you accept to have your son kidnapped by some foreign country? Would you
> > give him up?
>
> Kidnapped? He was rescued from the sea, after his mother and step-
> father had drowned. The USA seems keen to get him back to Cuba,
> it's his family in Miami who are fighting it. I don't presume to
> have enough information about the parties concerned or their
> situations, to decide the best outcome; and I doubt if anyone else
> here has either. I simply got into this thread because I reject
> the concept of "tyranny" applied to the USA in comparison with Cuba.
>
Alan, as I said at another post this whole situation begun with a rescue operation
wich, after all turned out to be a kidnapping. Yes, I say that because this is what it
turned out to be. If you didn't read my argument then I can repeat it: it would be
nothing more than a rescue operation if the USCG collected the surviving boy from sea
water, checked him to a hospital and released him to his country to be reunited with
his father. Unfortunately this didn't happen and that's why we are discussing this
boy's misfortune. I can see that some distant relatives of this boy decided to go to
court and fight for his custody but any family court judge can see that their pledge
can't stand in face of the fact of the existence of Elian's father and grandparents, so
the case fore Elian's custody shouldn't even be accepted by a court of law in this
country.
I'm still wondering if you'd accept to have your son virtually kidnapped by some
foreign country that wouldn't send him back because this foreign government suddenly
decides it has the power to check on you, to decide if you are a fit parent or not...
[]s,
procyon
>
> I'm sure we both hope for the best to come of this, the difference
> is that you think you know what that is, and I think that neither
> of us does.
>
> > []s,
> >
> > Nilsa (procyon)
> >
> > alan williams wrote:
> >
> > > Surely, Michael, could it not be argued that the boy's mother
> > > risked - and lost - her life, in an attempt to escape from tyranny?
> > >
> > > Should we not respect her wish that her son should grow up in the USA?
> > >
> > > In article <85ue7b$qab$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>
Pavilions of Sun
house -- this little boy is not "property (of Cuba, or his
dad, or the US, or anyone else)". This is a human issue,
not a nationalistic one. Your saying to send him back
to Cuba, no questions asked, assumes the child is 'property'.
In <388B4B11...@banet.net> pro...@banet.net writes:
>[]s,
>procyon (Nilsa)
>Pavilions of Sun wrote:
--
pro...@banet.net
You are very welcome. I've heard today that the two grandmothers are going back
to Cuba without seeing the boy ( I thought they came here to get him!...). At
this point I have no idea of what will happen to this unfortunate kid as some
distante relatives of him are filing for his custody (?!?!). If this was a
serious, law abiding country such frivolous lawsuit would be dismissed, no court
of law should admit it. We are witnessing another horrible American example of
miscarriage of justice!...
[]s,
procyon (Nilsa)
Michael Jordan wrote:
> "procyon":
>
> I am proud and honored that you would be willing to express your valued
> insight into this most sordid example of power brokering. Even the most
> conservative
> papers in my area in California are beginning to see that the US must
> maintain its
> domestic laws in this international setting and let the boy go back to Cuba
> and his father.
> Many of those throughout the world who responded inappropriately do not
> realise that the US maintains a Naval base on Cuban shores in Guantanamo
> Bay,
> "Gitmo" as it is called. Imagine what would happen to a Cuban base if it
> was stationed in Key West! It is a wise and deeply diplomatic move for the
> Cuban people to send the grandmothers of the boy here rather than the
> father who is in deep
> outrage at this. I hope to God that they are able to carry the
> compassionate concern
> in a manner which is so deep that the hard hearted bastards of the US
> Congress will melt and
> give in to rationality and obey our laws on international relations with
> Cuba.
>
> Thank you again!
> --
> Michael K. Jordan
> astrog...@mindspring.com
> Http://www.mindspring.net/~astrographer/index.htm
> http://www.mindspring.com/~astrographer/2000_ura-pos.htm
>
> <pro...@banet.net> wrote in message news:3887F47D...@banet.net...
> > Thanks for shaking the truth about this poor boy, Michael. I can't even
> watch
> > this issue on tv, my stomach turns upside down. I wonder how people here
> would
> > feel if an American boy was rescued by some other country after a
> shipwreck and
> > the rescueing country decided to keep the boy, instead of sending him back
> to
> > his father.
> > At the beginning we could say that Elian was rescued by the American Coast
> > Guard. Now we realise the rescue operation turned out to be a kidnapping!
> >
> > []s,
> >
> > procyon
> >
pro...@banet.net
I never stated the boy is Cuba's property, never! What I'm saying is the Western World with its laws based on
the Corpus Jus Civilis (Roman Law) automatically grants custody of a minor to his biological parents: this is
done here in the US, this is done in Cuba or the Falklands. In case of the death of one of the parents the sole
custodian will be the surviving parent, why is it so difficult for you to understand this? Now, since none of
the people involved are American citizens it is quite obvious we have no business in questioning the capacity
of Elian's father to inherit this natural sole custodianship: if there is any doubts about his capacity to take
care and be responsible for this child the case should be debated and resolved by the Cuban Family Court, not
any American legal forum, understand? If you wish to know why I'll repeat myself: we don't have legal
jurisdition over Cuba, Cuba is not our backyard!...
[]s,
procyon
Heather
got kicked back yet a post bashing the U.S. got allowed...
interesting.... I'm sure this will not get posted either...I'll
just watch everyone else's be posted and continue
to be a non-astrological thread...sigh
Heather
pro...@banet.net wrote in message <388B96E1...@banet.net>...
======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Heather, I rejected your other post because I was trying to eliminate the off-topic discussion, but the only way to stop all of the off-topic posts is to take everyone off of the pre-approved list. I give up. If everyone wants to post off-topic, I guess that's what they want to read. -- Michael Rideout
Heather
pro...@banet.net wrote in message <388C91D9...@banet.net>...
======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
I agree... Where's the astrology? Oh well, I concede.
doovinator
reason there is an argument over Elian is that Cuba has a different and
pretty much diametrically opposed set of laws than America. I see little
point in repeating like a broken record what American law is; this is an
international situation between two countries and demands a little more
thought than that.
DJ
Pete Phoenix
> and what does this have to do with astrology? hmmm my post
> got kicked back yet a post bashing the U.S. got allowed...
> interesting.... I'm sure this will not get posted
either...I'll
> just watch everyone else's be posted and continue
> to be a non-astrological thread...sigh
>
> Heather
Hey Heather,
you're right, this one didn't get approved either. I'm just
posting to let you know I'm dead upset about it. <BG>
C'mon people, if you want to discuss this interesting but *so*
off-topic subject, then e-mail privately.
Muchas gracias compadres...
Pedro Guevara - --
" I don't want to achieve immortality through my work -
I want to achieve it through not dying."
- Woody Allen-
Pavilions of Sun
>This sort of thing is exactly what the eclipse is emphasizing.
And guess what I saw yesterday, this newsgroup's tertiary
progressed Moon is 0 Aquarius 37, almost exactly opposite
the Moon's degree in last week's lunar eclipse!
>The reason there is an argument over Elian is that Cuba has a different and
>pretty much diametrically opposed set of laws than America. I see little
>point in repeating like a broken record what American law is; this is an
>international situation between two countries and demands a little more
>thought than that.
>DJ
--
Heather
>======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
> Heather, I rejected your other post because I was trying to eliminate the
off-topic discussion, but the only way to stop all of the off-topic posts is
to take everyone off of the pre-approved list. I give up. If everyone
wants to post off-topic, I guess that's what they want to read. -- Michael
Rideout
>
Michael ...LOL if you don't want to post this reply that's cool...it's
really to you
anyway...The only reason I got a bit miffed is some of these posts
in this thread started mocking peoples charts... or Sun sign positions..
that to me is petty and intolerable. But then I got a private e-mail from
someone that clearly was having a lot of posts kicked back...and although
I disagree with some of what he has posted in this thread...my Libra
rising kicked in <smirk> and felt that he should not have his posts
kicked back either.. that's just not fair...
You either have to bounce back all posts or no posts... to have equality
in the group. This is a great group and you know that...and from what I've
seen
you allow us all to be humans more than we were allowed in the past
which is refreshing. A moderated
newsgroup is fine but not to the point of total suppression of free speech.
:-)
so we stray occasionally from astrology... so what.. we're all into
astrology
but we're also all adults that I believe can benefit from the viewpoints of
others... even if they don't harmonize with our own.
Take Care and thanks for the note :-)
Heather
======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Unfortunately, the only way to bounce back all off-topic or off-charter posts is to remove everyone from the preapproved list so that every post can be closely monitored.
Keera A. Fox
> and what does this have to do with astrology? hmmm my post
> got kicked back yet a post bashing the U.S. got allowed...
> interesting.... I'm sure this will not get posted either...I'll
> just watch everyone else's be posted and continue
> to be a non-astrological thread...sigh
>
<snip>
> ======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
> Heather, I rejected your other post because I was trying to eliminate the
off-topic discussion, but the only way to stop all of the off-topic
posts is to take everyone off of the pre-approved list. I give up. If
everyone wants to post off-topic, I guess that's what they want to read.
-- Michael Rideout
If we want aamod to be a *community* and not "just" a static bulletin
board, we have to allow ourselves to be human, and sometimes that
includes straying and even raising our voices a little. We can't be
afraid of our Marses, can we? ;-)
But it has just occurred to me, without having had a chance to check
myself, that perhaps something's tickling aamod's chart these days.
Looking into that may be enlightening.
--
*** Keera in Norway ***
Think Big. Shrink to fit.
http://home.sol.no/~keera
Mark Martin
> If we want aamod to be a *community* and not "just" a static bulletin
> board, we have to allow ourselves to be human, and sometimes that
> includes straying and even raising our voices a little. We can't be
> afraid of our Marses, can we? ;-)
>
> But it has just occurred to me, without having had a chance to check
> myself, that perhaps something's tickling aamod's chart these days.
> Looking into that may be enlightening.
>
> --
> *** Keera in Norway ***
> Think Big. Shrink to fit.
> http://home.sol.no/~keera
First, let me quote Gail:
Pavilions of Sun wrote:
> In <21269-38...@storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net> do...@webtv.net
> (doovinator) writes:
>
> >This sort of thing is exactly what the eclipse is emphasizing.
>
> And guess what I saw yesterday, this newsgroup's tertiary
> progressed Moon is 0 Aquarius 37, almost exactly opposite
> the Moon's degree in last week's lunar eclipse!
I'm not all that familiar with tertiary progressions, but I'm getting tertiary
progressed Moon in the first degree of Taurus, exactly square the lunar
eclipse. That's probably worse!
I ran a report for aamod on Win*Writer, and came up with some interesting things
for the highlights for January. I'm adding a few comments of my own in:
Jan 20 Moon Opposite Neptune Lunar Eclipse (Leo-Capricorn 11th-5th) *** Exact
(Enter: 01/20/00 Exact: 01/20/00 Leave: 07/16/00)
Putting people on a pedestal leaves them only one place to go - and that's down.
This is a time when there is a tremendous need for honesty and clarity in all
relationships. Be aware that people sometimes make commitments they cannot
uphold, despite their best intentions. { MPM: So, obviously, Elian is being
put on a pedestal. Out of about 6 billion people on this planet, we have to
concern ourselves obsessively with one particular individual's plight because
he's in the news. At any given time, there's lots of people who are in much
worse situations, and there's nothing really to be done about it, except to
accept that that's life. Reminds me of when mom used to say "You better finish
your dinner! Think of all those hungry people in China!" I finished my dinner,
and they still went hungry. ;-) This has become a houshold joke in my
family. Anyway, this aspect has a rather wide orb, and might not play much. }
Jan 20 Moon Square Saturn Lunar Eclipse (Leo-Aries 11th-9th) *** Exact
(Enter: 01/20/00 Exact: 01/20/00 Leave: 07/16/00)
Challenges affecting career, status, and security are in the works now. You've
got to be alert to them, so that you can take action early to set things right.
There's a great need to be realistic, to prevent ambition from getting out of
hand. { MPM: I'm sensing that a lot of people on aamod are concerned about the
future of the group, or at least the enforcement of the moderation policies. A
few people seem to be having difficulty controlling their ambition to express
their opinions. Saturn has got to represent the moderators, as those who keep
this group under control. So the eclipsed moon square Saturn is making things
especially difficult for the moderators. Especially true for Michael, being a
Capricorn. }
Jan 16 Uranus Square Sun Transit (Aquarius-Scorpio 6th-3rd) ***** Exact
(Enter: Begin Date Exact: 01/16/00 Leave: 03/09/00)
You may have to control an urge to rebel and be different that could set your
ambitions and goals back a step. An inner struggle between your sense of purpose
or direction and a need for independence and freedom makes this a possibly tense
time. { MPM: This one wasn't in the highlights for the month, but it strikes
me as being significant in this situation. Rebelliousness is expressed as
defiance of the rules and charter of the newsgroup, resulting in this off-topic
thread on Elian continuing unchecked by the moderators challenged by the square
to Saturn. }
Here's my own take on this eclipse in the aamod chart. The eclipse occurred
between the cusp of Leo, and the cusp of the 12th house (1Leo04 Koch, or 0Leo38
Placidus). With less than two degrees between Leo and the 12th, this eclipse is
being "squeezed", putting a lot of pressure on this point. When something is
squeezed like that, it acts like a firecracker held in a fist, and breaks out
with more explosive force than usual. This is on the 12th house cusp. I think
of the 12th as the house of "secrets, illusion, and self-undoing." It looks
like this group is trying to undo itself. I hope we can all get over this, and
keep aamod alive. I love aamod. Going back to the aamod home page, where the
"birth data" is posted (http://www.video-collage.com/~aam/Creation.txt), there's
some comments at the end about the 12th house:
"And now, I harken back to the impetus for starting this
newsgroup, and it was the eclipse of August 21, 1998. According
to Charles Jayne, "Nothing good, or of importance, starts without
an eclipse behind it". The rising degree had to be late in Leo,
or we'd have Cancer on that 12th house cusp (and actually, we still
do, in some house systems, but we're ok in Placidus, Regiomontanus,
and other house systems, with Leo also on the 12th. Mainly, I was
wary of having the 12th house ruler in the 11th. But in a chart
for a newsgroup, what does that really mean? The 12th house then
describes the newsgroup's "lurkers", as well as the other hidden
facets of the group; all in all, this is probably not so deadly).
Late degrees rising isn't really a stricture in electional astrology,
the way it is in horary astrology. So I went for it. Yes, I put the
degree of the eclipse smack dab on the Ascendant. Hey, with Regulus,
too. Long live alt.astrology.moderated! I hope....
"alt.astrology.moderated was born on November 8, 1998 at 00:04 AM,
CST (+6), 88w04 41n48.
So, there's some astrology for ya to think about.
Mark
Jyeshta
image about the eclipse being "squeezed", it really is
evocative. I agree that this has been a rough past week
for Michael -- but he's done excellently (with more wisdom
and diplomacy than I could usually muster under pressure).
And aamod will surmount its rough times - with a Tropical
Scorpio Sun and fixed angles, it has lots of strength
(even though it may have its 'moments'). ;)
Mark Martin <mpma...@bwn.net> writes:
>"Keera A. Fox" wrote:
>Pavilions of Sun wrote:
>Mark
--