Mars/Pluto Conjunction (repost)
Edmond Wollmann
> Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > > > > Quetz...@aol.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Olivia wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Occurs on February 16 at 19
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sagittarius. Is this a sign of more
> > > > > > > > > > > > religious trouble and Holy wars?
> Comments?
A disbelief in the power of the identity and its rightful place in the
"scheme of things"--Mars conjunct Pluto; when the lower levels of this
conjunction are being expressed, i.e., the individual is seeking to
force
the will upon others for the sheer sake of power OVER others (out of
integrity), the result may be from disappointment all the way to self
destruction.
When the higher aspects of this conjunction is being expressed, there
will
be a positive determination to follow the free will of the physical
self, in
recognition of the need for transformation of perspective with reference
to
the sign in which it occurs, especially with reference to social issues
that
require this transforming touch. Negative ego drives will be in evidence
when the power of Pluto is used for personal gain as in sex, money, or
using
the emotional needs of others to manipulate them.
When positive, this energy has the driving force of the unencumbered
higher
self, that moves mountains from inspired passion based on a sense of
duty,
purpose, and necessity. Courage is differentiated from simple ego
aggression
by the fact that an integral concept is the motivating factor, not
personal
self-serving control. The good of the whole is the end result of this
transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
behind
such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move the
mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part of
the
idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or limit.
> > > > > There was a Mars/Pluto conjunction in Virgo in
> > > > > 1970. This was during the Viet Nam War--towards
> > > > > the end of it, but demonstrations for civil and
> > > > > women's rights, some rioting and protests were
> > > > > happening around the US. The conjunction was in
> > > > > the 9th house of the Sagittarius rising chart--I
> > > > > don't know if that has any significance since that
> > > war was not in the US. >
> > > > What was the degree?
> > > 28 Virgo.
> > Critical, an urgent need to move off of some details or
> > "correctness"?
> Hah! Yes, ending the war :) But details, or
> correctness....maybe, since it was a war of attrition and
> the details were keeping track of the number killed to
> prove "we" were winning, and therefore correct in our
> actions?
I think it would be time to use discernment, rather than judgments of
others
(two Virgo issues, one positive expression of Virgo, and one
negative)--that
is what I meant I believed the critical degree conjunction would
imply:-)
> > > > Was it square the US Uranus?
> > > No.
> > But was trine the Pluto of the US chart.
> OH, OK. And this would have supported energy towards
> major changes in tradition and the establishment.
Also, supported the MATERIALISTIC power structures in the US (Pluto in
Capricorn=Military/Industrial complex).
> > > But on May 4th 1970 (around noon), Mars and Venus were
> > > conjunct the US Uranus--when the killings/injuries at
> > > Kent State occurred.
> > The need to prove intelligence meets unconscious
> rigidity?
> Oh, yes :) It had just been announced that more troops
> would be sent to Cambodia(?) and many male students of
> draft age, I'm sure believed they needed to prove their
> intelligence by staying in school, or they would be
> drafted. Period :) So this was happening also, at the
> time of the peaceful (at first) demonstration against this
> action.
A "battle" of wits becomes a real battle.
> > > > > They had conjuncted the US Neptune which is when
> > > > > drugs as a form of recreation began to be used,
> > > > > the music created was the most innovative of all
> > > > > times, and spirituality and Eastern philosophy
> > > > > began to be of interest to many. Also, there was
> > > > > an openness to other cultures in general, an
> > > > > interest and adoption of traditions, rituals, food
> > > > , clothing, music....which are 9th house and Neptune
> > > > ideas. True, there was also a Pluto Uranus
> > > > conjunction in 65 that initiated a lot of that, do
> > you think?
> > > Oh yes, definitely. '65-'66 was the beginning.
> > > > Mars/Pluto would
> > > > trigger the matrix of the larger outer planetary
> > > > networks in force,
> > > Yes, I see. That was the period of time when the
> > > mainstream and those directly involved began to
> > > noticably oppose our Viet Nam involvement, listening
> > > to those having been there, to the silence of those
> > > that didn't come back, and the protest and rebellion
> > > with some of its results. It was the beginning of the
> > > end of that era, I think--1970. Kent State being the
> > > "last straw" or a wake-up call for some.
> > > I'm thinking it was a sign that things were going to
> > > wind down, or people were becoming aware of what's
> > > been happening and don't want it to continue.
> But this winding down was most likely reflected in the
> late degree of Virgo rather than the aspect, as I had been
> thinking (wishful, I guess).
Well, there was a forward thinking and ACTIVIST youth base, like I have
never seen since, as a matter of fact, that had a very powerful affect
on
the wars unpopularity.
> > > > and Virgo would definately be equal rights (the 12th
> > > > of the Libra natural 7th--the limits of
> > co-operation).
> > > And the Neptune in Libra generation (Libra in the US
> > > 10th, many of them conjunct the US Saturn + transiting
> > > Uranus in Libra in 10) major participants in
> > > everything visible/public that was happening at the
> > time.
> > Yes, dissolving and invalidating the Saturnian
> "reality."
> The Establishment. "Turn on, tune in, drop out", "Don't
> trust anyone over 30" etc.
Uranus overpowers Saturn.
> > > I can see the Virgo detail in that time too,
> > > remembering the evening news and seeing the war being
> > > analyzed and reported like a football game, the
> > > scoreboard reflecting who was winning by the number of
> > > people killed, with pictures of bloody body parts in
> > > the backround. And there was a song for everything--"7
> > > O'Clock News" Simon and Garfunkel.
> > And now we have a president glorifying killing again.
> Yes. When will we ever learn?
He just keeps repeating crap about killing sitting ducks for peace as if
it
will then make his "they tried to kill my daddy" agenda seem like it
might
have something to do with reality, when it doesn't. This is a prime
example
of a Mercury in Leo rigid ego blinder effect in high gear. He wants to
sacrifice Americans, the economy, world peace and high opinion of the US
all
over the world for his "daddy" and his OCD agenda, when all Clinton had
was
a blowjob that was harped on for two terms, and what do the people do
now?
Ignore him and let the crap continue. Does no one get this or see this
as I
do?
> > > > I
> > > > also explain some of the lag-time that generations
> > > > experience when the Pluto in a sign generation is
> > > > growing up and beginiing to exert its presence on
> > > > the collective psyche in my article "Paradigm Shift
> > > > 2012"; "The group we are born into by Pluto's sign
> > > > reference carries with it tremendous change in the
> > > > sign it is so placed.
> I see in some personal instances the Pluto in Virgo
> generation and what they are doing--actually working,
> living and implementing many of the ideals and goals that
> the Pluto in Leo (my) generation believe/d in,
> demonstrated for, protested against, brought issues up and
> made them known--showed them to the world, some even
> living as the message--but *for others to see* while
> "doing their own thing"--Different than the practical
> application of having seen the issues, and then taking the
> responsiblity to put things into action, and doing it
> modestly. I think it's pretty amazing and admire them for
> being able to do this, I don't think I could.
Yes, but the tendency is to miss the forest for the trees I think.
> > But curiously this impact is felt as the
> > > > generation matures.....
> > > > The issues of the period by sign and aspects are
> > > > reflected through it. But the individuals born under
> > > > a certain paradigm manifest that paradigm as the
> > > > current paradigm when they reach adult age 20 years
> > > > or so later. That imprint seems to exist then and is
> > > > brought forward in time..." So, what I am saying is
> > > > that I think the Pluto in Leo generation may be more
> > > > responsible for some of the ideas you outline in
> > > > your paragraph above, and that the Pluto in Virgo
> > > > generation then became the generation of analytical
> > > correctness (Virgo) --working out, not smoking, etc.
> > > Oh yes, the generations' influence of course, you are
> > > right. And I'm probably narrowing down my experience
> > > even more--to Neptune in Libra--Uranus in Gemini. But
> > > there is the "flavor" still, of the next Pluto
> > > generation and their issues at the time the aspects
> > > actually occur--the times of their birth.
> > True, I think the Uranus/Neptune square describes the
> > generational issues too--I know, I carry that same
> > rebeliious nature--against things that are dogmatic
> > convention.
> Oh, yes that would be generational wouldn't it.
> Rebellious--and idealistic? Actually those two seem to
> always go together. .....
Wait until the children born in 2012, with Pluto square Uranus, grow up!
> > > > > > > > The New Moon on August 27, 2003 is conjunct
> > > > > > > > a Jupiter/Venus conjunction and opposing a
> > > > > > > > Uranus/Mars conjunction. In fact it is a
> > > > > > > > stellium opposed Mars/Uranus, and this
> > > > > > > opposition squares the eclipsed US Uranus.
> Why eclipsed? Because it's conjunct the Moon? (If I'm
> remembering correctly).
US Uranus is at 9 Gemini, the eclipse in May is on it, which makes the
New
Moon in Virgo an opening quadrature to that eclipse.
> > > > > > > Uranus/Mars conjuncts the Moon in the Sag
> > > > > > > rising US chart, and Mercury is part of the
> > > > > > > stellium. With Jupiter and Venus
> > > > > > > conjunct--economics? The need for a new start
> > > > > > > in this area--sudden changes? I'm just
> > > > > > > guessing and using keywords. What is your
> delineation of this? -- .....
> > > > > > I would say that the Uranus/Mars could be
> > > > > > poisons, water contamination, oils spills--all
> > > > > > sorts of chemical and water issues.
> > > > > OK, because they will be in Pisces.
> > > > True, and Saturn moves into Cancer too. But the
> > > > oppositions may bring these types of issues to the
> > > forefront.
> > > OK.
> > > > > > Jupiter/Venus and the new moon in Virgo is
> > > > > > certainly work and health concerns, so we could
> > > > > > see some sort of outbreak or chemical to water
> > > > > > contamination. With this squaring the US Uranus,
> > > > > > there will definately be these sort of issues
> > > > > > concerning travel and shipping escpecially. The
> > > > > railroad and oil tankers will be at risk.
> > > > > Attention to details would be good advice then? :)
> ....
> > > > Yes:-) Could also be when the true unemployment
> > > > stats hit the news.
> > > OK. Will watch for this too.
> > I see Mr. Bush has an astrologer too:-)) What a loser
> > for a president we have, it is embarassing.
> He does? (I didn't watch his speech) Who is his
> astrologer? :)
Just kidding:-) I meant an advisor saying the same thing as me, I didn't
see
the speech, but heard he talked about the economy (evidently to appease
the
people who DO have a brain).
> > > > The last Bush in office saw the highest rise in
> > > > homelessness. This is because Reagan (ironically)
> > > > had no empathy for the mentally ill and he carried
> > > > on that policy, and we really have no mental health
> > > > care system in this country to speak of. We put
> > > > people in jail and give them no hope for
> > > > rehabilitation at all. These are all Virgo/Pisces
> > issues.
> > > Or, the homeless here are brought by the police to
> "Rehab" actually, "Detox"
> > > at night--homeless people get drunk so they will have
> > > a warm place to sleep when it's cold--not enough
> > shelters.
> > Here in SD when they have a big event downtwn, they do a
> > sweep to move the homeless that are sleeping on the
> > sidewalks, it is cheaper than providing a shelter and
> > help for them.
> > Health concerns and the weak are in trouble while this
> > president is in office, and the war machine is strong
> > and secure.
> I keep thinking that something I see as positive will have
> to come out of all of this.
Yes! Rebellion AGAINST this type of "using the most powerful government
in
the world to persue vandettas" crap:-)
> > How people in this day and age can be so blind to
> > pointless military crap is beyond me.
> > What would an alien race think of countries killing each
> > other and their citizens because the president(s) is the
> > son of an elite politician, and he seeks vengence
> > against a powerless sitting duck country, using the
> > worlds most powerful countries resources to do so? And
> > when a real threat comes along (Korea) he convinces the
> > rest of the world that they are no threat and goes back
> > to bullying the 3rd world country-- While people starve,
> > go homeless and nature is destroyed without a thought?
> > The world has not changed, nor have people, it has just
> > become more technically efficient for those carrying out
> > the same pettiness and base motives it has always has
> > had as its prominent feature.
> :|
Sad, isn't it?
> > "I believe I shall, in some shape or other, always exist
> > ; and, with all the inconveniences human life is liable
> > to, I shall not object to a new edition of my life,
> > hoping, however, that the errata of the last may be
> > corrected." Benjamin Franklin on reincarnation
> A Capricorn Sun, moving onward and upward :)
True:-))
--
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A. remove-to mail me
© 2003 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated.metapsych aa...@stump.algebra.com
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
Artworks http://www.e-wollmann.com
Edmond Wollmann
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > >
> > > Olivia wrote:
> > >
> > > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Occurs on February 16 at 19 Sagittarius. Is this a
> > > > > sign of more religious trouble and Holy wars?
> > > > > Comments?
> > >
> > > > And, Mars and Pluto (in the US 7th) are both opposite
> > > > Saturn in the first house of the US chart conjunct the
> > > > US Mars. This creates a t-square with the US Neptune
> > > in 5.
> > > Yes the typical accepted US chart, but that chart is in
> > > question by a lot of astrrologers. But no doubt that the
> > > t-square is there.
> >
> > Do you use the Sag rising chart? There 7 & 1 are reversed
> > and Neptune's in 2. Economic problems?
>
> I really believe that almost any chart for the period of the
> fight for independence (when the idea was being initiated)
> will be valid to some degree. But the long period of Mars Rx
> in Sagittarius preceeded the main terrorist issue in the US,
Mars Rx--a time for rehearsing, acting out ahead of time, the actions to
be taken in the future.
> and the fact that T Pluto is moving to oppose the US Mars
> does not bode well for Mr. Bush and his warmongering. Mars
> is the country's military no matter what the chart,
So, aspects really are first priority.
> and the
> Sagittarius emphasis is in a sense indicative of the power
> struggles between religions.
And philosophies, ideals, higher education, applied more generally.
> The power is actually with the opposition.
And protestors.
> George Bush has actually helped to manifest the extremist
> Muslim idea of a "Holy War"
Because the Muslims see what he's doing and many/most of the people in
the US, can't?
> by using the outrage of the
> attack on the world towers to slowly move his agenda from
> Osama Binladen
I know. "Cashing in" on the peoples' emotions about the attack to
irrationally support war--and then getting re-elected.
> (who, at least in this war he speaks of has
> won) to Iraq--like a shell game he has deceived everyone
> into carrying out his father's vandetta with no facts or
> evidence whatever against Iraq or that Iraq has anything to
> do with the so-called "war on terrorism" he supposedly
> launched.
I thought Iraq kicked Osama out of their country. I'm not well-informed
politically, but this struck me as odd. Jumping from Osama bin Laden to
Iraq, where he's not welcome. He lost me, there.
> This has escaped the whole world's criticism!
Well--at least much of the US. And the people aren't always in
agreement with the official stance of their governments.
> The psychological fact is, that by creating this sort of
> conflict collectively with this presisdent, is the way the
> collective brings to the surface issues it wishes to resolve
> and take back power in.
Hmm, OK. What are some of those issues?
--
Olivia Olsen
Olivia (reposted by moderator)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 01:41:43 CST
From: Olivia <y0...@yahoo.com>
Organization: Newsgroup NNTPServers.com
Newsgroups: alt.astrology.moderated.metapsych
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4
"Edmond Wollmann (reposted by moderator)" wrote:
>
> From: Edmond Wollmann (arctur...@earthlink.net)
> Subject: Re: Mars/Pluto Conjunction
> Newsgroups: alt.astrology.moderated.metapsych
> Date: 2003-02-01 11:36:04 PST
>
> Olivia wrote:
> > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > > > > > Quetz...@aol.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Olivia wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Occurs on February 16 at 19
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sagittarius. Is this a sign of more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > religious trouble and Holy wars?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Comments?
>
> A disbelief in the power of the identity and its rightful
> place in the "scheme of things"--Mars conjunct Pluto; when the lower
> levels of this conjunction are being expressed, i.e., the individual is
> seeking to force the will upon others for the sheer sake of power OVER
> others (out of integrity), the result may be from disappointment all the
> way to self destruction. When the higher aspects of this conjunction is
> being expressed, there will be a positive determination to follow the
> free will of the physical self, in recognition of the need for
> transformation of perspective with reference to the sign in which it
> occurs, especially with reference to social issues that require this
> transforming touch. Negative ego drives will be in evidence when the
> power of Pluto is used for personal gain as in sex, money, or using the
> emotional needs of others to manipulate them. When positive, this
> energy has the driving force of the unencumbered higher self, that moves
> mountains from inspired passion based on a sense of duty, purpose, and
> necessity. Courage is differentiated from simple ego aggression by the
> fact that an integral concept is the motivating factor, not personal
> self-serving control.
Or the "vision" as one individual I know with this natal aspect (+
conjunct Mercury in Virgo), calls this "integral concept".
> The good of the whole is the end result of this
> transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
> behind such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move
> the mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part
> of the idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or
> limit.
Thanks for this excellent Mars/Pluto delineation. So accurate!
> > > > > > There was a Mars/Pluto conjunction in Virgo in
> > > > > > 1970. This was during the Viet Nam War--towards
> > > > > > the end of it, but demonstrations for civil and
> > > > > > women's rights, some rioting and protests were
> > > > > > happening around the US. The conjunction was in
> > > > > > the 9th house of the Sagittarius rising chart--I
> > > > > > don't know if that has any significance since that war was not in the US. >
> > > > > What was the degree?
> > > > 28 Virgo.
> > > Critical, an urgent need to move off of some details or
> > > "correctness"?
> > Hah! Yes, ending the war :) But details, or
> > correctness....maybe, since it was a war of attrition and
> > the details were keeping track of the number killed to
> > prove "we" were winning, and therefore correct in our
> > actions?
>
> I think it would be time to use discernment, rather than judgments of
> others (two Virgo issues, one positive expression of Virgo, and one
> negative)--that is what I meant I believed the critical degree
> conjunction
> would imply:-)
:) OK. Either/or. + or -
> > > > > Was it square the US Uranus?
> > > > No.
> > > But was trine the Pluto of the US chart.
> > OH, OK. And this would have supported energy towards
> > major changes in tradition and the establishment.
>
> Also, supported the MATERIALISTIC power structures in the US (Pluto in
> Capricorn
Yes.
> > > > But on May 4th 1970 (around noon), Mars and Venus were
> > > > conjunct the US Uranus--when the killings/injuries at
> > > > Kent State occurred.
>
> > > The need to prove intelligence meets unconscious
> > rigidity?
>
> > Oh, yes :) It had just been announced that more troops
> > would be sent to Cambodia(?) and many male students of
> > draft age, I'm sure believed they needed to prove their
> > intelligence by staying in school, or they would be
> > drafted. Period :) So this was happening also, at the
> > time of the peaceful (at first) demonstration against this
> > action.
>
> A "battle" of wits becomes a real battle.
One side fighting a mental battle (protesting/verbal), the other
physical (hearing "fightin' words") and neither wanting to fight on the
level of the other.
It didn't seem that way at the time--that the youth were being listened
to.
I know there are more that do:)
> > > > > I
> > > > > also explain some of the lag-time that generations
> > > > > experience when the Pluto in a sign generation is
> > > > > growing up and beginiing to exert its presence on
> > > > > the collective psyche in my article "Paradigm Shift
> > > > > 2012"; "The group we are born into by Pluto's sign
> > > > > reference carries with it tremendous change in the
> > > > > sign it is so placed.
> > I see in some personal instances the Pluto in Virgo
> > generation and what they are doing--actually working,
> > living and implementing many of the ideals and goals that
> > the Pluto in Leo (my) generation believe/d in,
> > demonstrated for, protested against, brought issues up and
> > made them known--showed them to the world, some even
> > living as the message--but *for others to see* while
> > "doing their own thing"--Different than the practical
> > application of having seen the issues, and then taking the
> > responsiblity to put things into action, and doing it
> > modestly. I think it's pretty amazing and admire them for
> > being able to do this, I don't think I could.
>
> Yes, but the tendency is to miss the forest for the trees I
> think.
Some Sag can help to widen the view.
:) I can imagine...
> > > > > > > > > The New Moon on August 27, 2003 is conjunct
> > > > > > > > > a Jupiter/Venus conjunction and opposing a
> > > > > > > > > Uranus/Mars conjunction. In fact it is a
> > > > > > > > > stellium opposed Mars/Uranus, and this
> > > > > > > > opposition squares the eclipsed US Uranus.
> > Why eclipsed? Because it's conjunct the Moon? (If I'm
> > remembering correctly).
>
> US Uranus is at 9 Gemini, the eclipse in May is on it, which makes the
> New Moon in Virgo an opening quadrature to that eclipse.
The August 27th New Moon will square it. Hm.
Ah, OK :)
> > > > > The last Bush in office saw the highest rise in
> > > > > homelessness. This is because Reagan (ironically)
> > > > > had no empathy for the mentally ill and he carried
> > > > > on that policy, and we really have no mental health
> > > > > care system in this country to speak of. We put
> > > > > people in jail and give them no hope for
> > > > > rehabilitation at all. These are all Virgo/Pisces issues.
> > > > Or, the homeless here are brought by the police to "Rehab" actually, "Detox"
> > > > at night--homeless people get drunk so they will have
> > > > a warm place to sleep when it's cold--not enough
> > > shelters.
> > > Here in SD when they have a big event downtwn, they do a
> > > sweep to move the homeless that are sleeping on the
> > > sidewalks, it is cheaper than providing a shelter and
> > > help for them.
> > > Health concerns and the weak are in trouble while this
> > > president is in office, and the war machine is strong
> > > and secure.
> > I keep thinking that something I see as positive will have
> > to come out of all of this.
>
> Yes! Rebellion AGAINST this type of "using the most powerful government
> in the world to persue vandettas" crap:-)
OH!! Yow! That's the forest ;)
> > > How people in this day and age can be so blind to
> > > pointless military crap is beyond me.
> > > What would an alien race think of countries killing each
> > > other and their citizens because the president(s) is the
> > > son of an elite politician, and he seeks vengence
> > > against a powerless sitting duck country, using the
> > > worlds most powerful countries resources to do so? And
> > > when a real threat comes along (Korea) he convinces the
> > > rest of the world that they are no threat and goes back
> > > to bullying the 3rd world country-- While people starve,
> > > go homeless and nature is destroyed without a thought?
> > > The world has not changed, nor have people, it has just
> > > become more technically efficient for those carrying out
> > > the same pettiness and base motives it has always has
> > > had as its prominent feature.
> > :|
>
> Sad, isn't it?
Yes, it is.
> > > "I believe I shall, in some shape or other, always exist
> > > ; and, with all the inconveniences human life is liable
> > > to, I shall not object to a new edition of my life,
> > > hoping, however, that the errata of the last may be
> > > corrected." Benjamin Franklin on reincarnation
> > A Capricorn Sun, moving onward and upward :)
>
> True:-))
>
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> © 2003 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
> Links http://www.astroconsulting.com/personal/
> http://home.earthlink.net/~arcturianone/
Thank you, I've learned a lot!
--
Olivia Olsen
Olivia (reposted by moderator)
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4
"Edmond Wollmann (reposted by moderator)" wrote:
>
> From: Edmond Wollmann (arctur...@earthlink.net)
> Subject: Re: Mars/Pluto Conjunction
> Newsgroups: alt.astrology.moderated.metapsych
> Date: 2003-02-01 11:36:04 PST
>
Or the "vision" as one individual I know with this natal aspect (+
conjunct Mercury in Virgo), calls this "integral concept".
> The good of the whole is the end result of this
> transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
> behind such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move
> the mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part
> of the idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or
> limit.
Thanks for this excellent Mars/Pluto delineation. So accurate!
> > > > > > There was a Mars/Pluto conjunction in Virgo in
> > > > > > 1970. This was during the Viet Nam War--towards
> > > > > > the end of it, but demonstrations for civil and
> > > > > > women's rights, some rioting and protests were
> > > > > > happening around the US. The conjunction was in
> > > > > > the 9th house of the Sagittarius rising chart--I
> > > > > > don't know if that has any significance since that war was not in the US. >
> > > > > What was the degree?
> > > > 28 Virgo.
> > > Critical, an urgent need to move off of some details or
> > > "correctness"?
> > Hah! Yes, ending the war :) But details, or
> > correctness....maybe, since it was a war of attrition and
> > the details were keeping track of the number killed to
> > prove "we" were winning, and therefore correct in our
> > actions?
>
> I think it would be time to use discernment, rather than judgments of
> others (two Virgo issues, one positive expression of Virgo, and one
> negative)--that is what I meant I believed the critical degree
> conjunction
> would imply:-)
:) OK. Either/or. + or -
> > > > > Was it square the US Uranus?
> > > > No.
> > > But was trine the Pluto of the US chart.
> > OH, OK. And this would have supported energy towards
> > major changes in tradition and the establishment.
>
> Also, supported the MATERIALISTIC power structures in the US (Pluto in
> Capricorn
Yes.
> > > > But on May 4th 1970 (around noon), Mars and Venus were
> > > > conjunct the US Uranus--when the killings/injuries at
> > > > Kent State occurred.
>
> > > The need to prove intelligence meets unconscious
> > rigidity?
>
> > Oh, yes :) It had just been announced that more troops
> > would be sent to Cambodia(?) and many male students of
> > draft age, I'm sure believed they needed to prove their
> > intelligence by staying in school, or they would be
> > drafted. Period :) So this was happening also, at the
> > time of the peaceful (at first) demonstration against this
> > action.
>
> A "battle" of wits becomes a real battle.
One side fighting a mental battle (protesting/verbal), the other
physical (hearing "fightin' words") and neither wanting to fight on the
level of the other.
> > > > > > They had conjuncted the US Neptune which is when
It didn't seem that way at the time--that the youth were being listened
to.
> > > > > and Virgo would definately be equal rights (the 12th
I know there are more that do:)
> > > > > I
> > > > > also explain some of the lag-time that generations
> > > > > experience when the Pluto in a sign generation is
> > > > > growing up and beginiing to exert its presence on
> > > > > the collective psyche in my article "Paradigm Shift
> > > > > 2012"; "The group we are born into by Pluto's sign
> > > > > reference carries with it tremendous change in the
> > > > > sign it is so placed.
> > I see in some personal instances the Pluto in Virgo
> > generation and what they are doing--actually working,
> > living and implementing many of the ideals and goals that
> > the Pluto in Leo (my) generation believe/d in,
> > demonstrated for, protested against, brought issues up and
> > made them known--showed them to the world, some even
> > living as the message--but *for others to see* while
> > "doing their own thing"--Different than the practical
> > application of having seen the issues, and then taking the
> > responsiblity to put things into action, and doing it
> > modestly. I think it's pretty amazing and admire them for
> > being able to do this, I don't think I could.
>
> Yes, but the tendency is to miss the forest for the trees I
> think.
Some Sag can help to widen the view.
:) I can imagine...
> > > > > > > > > The New Moon on August 27, 2003 is conjunct
> > > > > > > > > a Jupiter/Venus conjunction and opposing a
> > > > > > > > > Uranus/Mars conjunction. In fact it is a
> > > > > > > > > stellium opposed Mars/Uranus, and this
> > > > > > > > opposition squares the eclipsed US Uranus.
> > Why eclipsed? Because it's conjunct the Moon? (If I'm
> > remembering correctly).
>
> US Uranus is at 9 Gemini, the eclipse in May is on it, which makes the
> New Moon in Virgo an opening quadrature to that eclipse.
The August 27th New Moon will square it. Hm.
> > > > > > > > Uranus/Mars conjuncts the Moon in the Sag
Ah, OK :)
> > > > > The last Bush in office saw the highest rise in
> > > > > homelessness. This is because Reagan (ironically)
> > > > > had no empathy for the mentally ill and he carried
> > > > > on that policy, and we really have no mental health
> > > > > care system in this country to speak of. We put
> > > > > people in jail and give them no hope for
> > > > > rehabilitation at all. These are all Virgo/Pisces issues.
> > > > Or, the homeless here are brought by the police to "Rehab" actually, "Detox"
> > > > at night--homeless people get drunk so they will have
> > > > a warm place to sleep when it's cold--not enough
> > > shelters.
> > > Here in SD when they have a big event downtwn, they do a
> > > sweep to move the homeless that are sleeping on the
> > > sidewalks, it is cheaper than providing a shelter and
> > > help for them.
> > > Health concerns and the weak are in trouble while this
> > > president is in office, and the war machine is strong
> > > and secure.
> > I keep thinking that something I see as positive will have
> > to come out of all of this.
>
> Yes! Rebellion AGAINST this type of "using the most powerful government
> in the world to persue vandettas" crap:-)
OH!! Yow! That's the forest ;)
> > > How people in this day and age can be so blind to
> > > pointless military crap is beyond me.
> > > What would an alien race think of countries killing each
> > > other and their citizens because the president(s) is the
> > > son of an elite politician, and he seeks vengence
> > > against a powerless sitting duck country, using the
> > > worlds most powerful countries resources to do so? And
> > > when a real threat comes along (Korea) he convinces the
> > > rest of the world that they are no threat and goes back
> > > to bullying the 3rd world country-- While people starve,
> > > go homeless and nature is destroyed without a thought?
> > > The world has not changed, nor have people, it has just
> > > become more technically efficient for those carrying out
> > > the same pettiness and base motives it has always has
> > > had as its prominent feature.
> > :|
>
> Sad, isn't it?
Yes, it is.
> > > "I believe I shall, in some shape or other, always exist
> > > ; and, with all the inconveniences human life is liable
> > > to, I shall not object to a new edition of my life,
> > > hoping, however, that the errata of the last may be
> > > corrected." Benjamin Franklin on reincarnation
> > A Capricorn Sun, moving onward and upward :)
>
> True:-))
>
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> © 2003 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Edmond Wollmann
> > From: Edmond Wollmann (arctur...@earthlink.net)
Can you share the chart?
> > The good of the whole is the end result of this
> > transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
> > behind such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move
> > the mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part
> > of the idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or
> > limit.
> Thanks for this excellent Mars/Pluto delineation. So accurate!
You are welcome. Please continue posting:-)
> > > > > > > There was a Mars/Pluto conjunction in Virgo in
> > > > > > > 1970. This was during the Viet Nam War--towards
> > > > > > > the end of it, but demonstrations for civil and
> > > > > > > women's rights, some rioting and protests were
> > > > > > > happening around the US. The conjunction was in
> > > > > > > the 9th house of the Sagittarius rising chart--I
> > > > > > > don't know if that has any significance since that war was not in the US. >
> > > > > > What was the degree?
> > > > > 28 Virgo.
> > > > Critical, an urgent need to move off of some details or
> > > > "correctness"?
> > > Hah! Yes, ending the war :) But details, or
> > > correctness....maybe, since it was a war of attrition and
> > > the details were keeping track of the number killed to
> > > prove "we" were winning, and therefore correct in our
> > > actions?
> > I think it would be time to use discernment, rather than judgments of
> > others (two Virgo issues, one positive expression of Virgo, and one
> > negative)--that is what I meant I believed the critical degree
> > conjunction
> > would imply:-)
> :) OK. Either/or. + or -
Yes, true.
> > > > > > Was it square the US Uranus?
> > > > > No.
> > > > But was trine the Pluto of the US chart.
> > > OH, OK. And this would have supported energy towards
> > > major changes in tradition and the establishment.
> > Also, supported the MATERIALISTIC power structures in the US (Pluto in
> > Capricorn
> Yes.
> > > > > But on May 4th 1970 (around noon), Mars and Venus were
> > > > > conjunct the US Uranus--when the killings/injuries at
> > > > > Kent State occurred.
> > > > The need to prove intelligence meets unconscious
> > > rigidity?
> > > Oh, yes :) It had just been announced that more troops
> > > would be sent to Cambodia(?) and many male students of
> > > draft age, I'm sure believed they needed to prove their
> > > intelligence by staying in school, or they would be
> > > drafted. Period :) So this was happening also, at the
> > > time of the peaceful (at first) demonstration against this
> > > action.
> > A "battle" of wits becomes a real battle.
> One side fighting a mental battle (protesting/verbal), the other
> physical (hearing "fightin' words") and neither wanting to fight on the
> level of the other.
Interesting how a collective mentla battle is reflected in personal
planets.
Because they had a positive message, unlike the ones we see today.
> > Uranus overpowers Saturn.
As you can see the protests are growing.
--
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A. remove-to mail me
© 2003 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Olivia
Oh, no it's not mine to share.
You believe this is true?
=snip=
> > > He just keeps repeating crap about killing sitting ducks for peace as if
> > > it will then make his "they tried to kill my daddy" agenda seem like it
> > > might have something to do with reality, when it doesn't. This is a
> > > prime example of a Mercury in Leo rigid ego blinder effect in high gear.
> > > He wants to sacrifice Americans, the economy, world peace and high
> > > opinion of the US all over the world for his "daddy" and his OCD agenda,
> > > when all Clinton had was a blowjob that was harped on for two terms, and
> > > what do the people do now? Ignore him and let the crap continue. Does no
> > > one get this or see this as I do?
>
> > I know there are more that do:)
>
> As you can see the protests are growing.
Yes :)
--
Olivia Olsen
Edmond Wollmann
> > > > From: Edmond Wollmann (arctur...@earthlink.net)
OK, it is hard for me to see the conjunction as a vision and was looking
for another aspect that might reflect this more.
> > Yes, true.
Virgo is also the 12th of others, so our perspective alters when we see
others going through difficulties, this perspective alteration is meant
to evoke compassion (reflex from Pisces) so that the real-ization that
we are all one comes into consciousness.
> > > > > > > > Was it square the US Uranus?
> > > > > > > No.
> > > > > > But was trine the Pluto of the US chart.
> > > > > OH, OK. And this would have supported energy towards
> > > > > major changes in tradition and the establishment.
> > > > Also, supported the MATERIALISTIC power structures in the US (Pluto in
> > > > Capricorn
> > > Yes.
> > > > > > > But on May 4th 1970 (around noon), Mars and Venus were
> > > > > > > conjunct the US Uranus--when the killings/injuries at
> > > > > > > Kent State occurred.
> > > > > > The need to prove intelligence meets unconscious
> > > > > rigidity?
> > > > > Oh, yes :) It had just been announced that more troops
> > > > > would be sent to Cambodia(?) and many male students of
> > > > > draft age, I'm sure believed they needed to prove their
> > > > > intelligence by staying in school, or they would be
> > > > > drafted. Period :) So this was happening also, at the
> > > > > time of the peaceful (at first) demonstration against this
> > > > > action.
> > > > A "battle" of wits becomes a real battle.
> > > One side fighting a mental battle (protesting/verbal), the other
> > > physical (hearing "fightin' words") and neither wanting to fight on the
> > > level of the other.
> > Interesting how a collective mental battle is reflected in personal
> > planets.
> You believe this is true?
Mars and Venus are personal planets, although conjunct Uranus, they are
still personality focused.
> =snip=
> > > > He just keeps repeating crap about killing sitting ducks for peace as if
> > > > it will then make his "they tried to kill my daddy" agenda seem like it
> > > > might have something to do with reality, when it doesn't. This is a
> > > > prime example of a Mercury in Leo rigid ego blinder effect in high gear.
> > > > He wants to sacrifice Americans, the economy, world peace and high
> > > > opinion of the US all over the world for his "daddy" and his OCD agenda,
> > > > when all Clinton had was a blowjob that was harped on for two terms, and
> > > > what do the people do now? Ignore him and let the crap continue. Does no
> > > > one get this or see this as I do?
> > > I know there are more that do:)
> > As you can see the protests are growing.
> Yes :)
Wait until the conflicts with other countries mounts, the division of
the world creates pain and suffering, and my prediction that he will go
down as the worst president in history will come true.
Thanks for your posts Olivia and hope all is well with you:-)
"I thank the lord for the people I have found....Turn around and say
good morning to the night. For unless they see the sky, but they can't
and that is why. They know not if its dark outside or light." Elton John
"Mona Lisa's and Madhatters"
Olivia
Yes, I see. Umm, all 3 in 11, sextile Neptune/Venus conjunction (opp.
Saturn), square Moon, trine Saturn, with Sun conjunct Uranus in 12.
> > > > > The good of the whole is the end result of this
> > > > > transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
> > > > > behind such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move
> > > > > the mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part
> > > > > of the idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or
> > > > > limit.
>
> > > > Thanks for this excellent Mars/Pluto delineation. So accurate!
>
> > > You are welcome. Please continue posting:-)
Thank you :)
=sneep=
> > > > > I think it would be time to use discernment, rather than judgments of
> > > > > others (two Virgo issues, one positive expression of Virgo, and one
> > > > > negative)--that is what I meant I believed the critical degree
> > > > > conjunction
> > > > > would imply:-)
>
> > > > :) OK. Either/or. + or -
>
> > > Yes, true.
>
> Virgo is also the 12th of others, so our perspective alters when we see
> others going through difficulties, this perspective alteration is meant
> to evoke compassion (reflex from Pisces) so that the real-ization that
> we are all one comes into consciousness.
This is an interesting way of looking at things. I want to remember to
try this.
=snoip=
> > > > > > > > But on May 4th 1970 (around noon), Mars and Venus were
> > > > > > > > conjunct the US Uranus--when the killings/injuries at
> > > > > > > > Kent State occurred.
>
> > > > > > > The need to prove intelligence meets unconscious
> > > > > > rigidity?
>
> > > > > > Oh, yes :) It had just been announced that more troops
> > > > > > would be sent to Cambodia(?) and many male students of
> > > > > > draft age, I'm sure believed they needed to prove their
> > > > > > intelligence by staying in school, or they would be
> > > > > > drafted. Period :) So this was happening also, at the
> > > > > > time of the peaceful (at first) demonstration against this
> > > > > > action.
>
> > > > > A "battle" of wits becomes a real battle.
>
> > > > One side fighting a mental battle (protesting/verbal), the other
> > > > physical (hearing "fightin' words") and neither wanting to fight on the
> > > > level of the other.
>
> > > Interesting how a collective mental battle is reflected in personal
> > > planets.
>
> > You believe this is true?
>
> Mars and Venus are personal planets, although conjunct Uranus, they are
> still personality focused.
I meant if it actually is reflected in the personal planets and not
somewhere else that I haven't noticed :) Is that not a usual thing to
happen?
> > =snip=
>
> > > > > He just keeps repeating crap about killing sitting ducks for peace as if
> > > > > it will then make his "they tried to kill my daddy" agenda seem like it
> > > > > might have something to do with reality, when it doesn't. This is a
> > > > > prime example of a Mercury in Leo rigid ego blinder effect in high gear.
> > > > > He wants to sacrifice Americans, the economy, world peace and high
> > > > > opinion of the US all over the world for his "daddy" and his OCD agenda,
> > > > > when all Clinton had was a blowjob that was harped on for two terms, and
> > > > > what do the people do now? Ignore him and let the crap continue. Does no
> > > > > one get this or see this as I do?
>
> > > > I know there are more that do:)
>
> > > As you can see the protests are growing.
>
> > Yes :)
>
> Wait until the conflicts with other countries mounts, the division of
> the world creates pain and suffering, and my prediction that he will go
> down as the worst president in history will come true.
Think he'll beat Reagan and Nixon?! :) If that's true, this country is
just........spiralling :\
> Thanks for your posts Olivia and hope all is well with you:-)
You're welcome! :D And I am fine. Thank you.
> "I thank the lord for the people I have found....Turn around and say
> good morning to the night. For unless they see the sky, but they can't
> and that is why. They know not if its dark outside or light." Elton John
> "Mona Lisa's and Madhatters"
> --
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A. remove-to mail me
> © 2003 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> Newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated.metapsych aa...@stump.algebra.com
> Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
> Artworks http://www.e-wollmann.com
--
Olivia Olsen
Edmond Wollmann
> > Olivia wrote:
> > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > > > From: Edmond Wollmann (arctur...@earthlink.net)
I would see the Venus/Neptune conjunction as visionary for sure, as well
as Uranus conjunct Sun in 12 (natural house of Neptune). This is why I
asked, because a chart always has reinforcing momentum
indicators--meaning; the same conceptual notion can be found as we go
around the chart in delineation. This is why it is so hard to isolate
this and that as meaning this or that. And why astrologers are having a
hard time validating astrology scientifically, because it IS more like a
painting, wherein the colors of the chart give us a picture of what the
psyche is focused on.
> > > > > > The good of the whole is the end result of this
> > > > > > transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
> > > > > > behind such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move
> > > > > > the mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part
> > > > > > of the idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or
> > > > > > limit.
> > > > > Thanks for this excellent Mars/Pluto delineation. So accurate!
> > > > You are welcome. Please continue posting:-)
> Thank you :)
> =sneep=
> > > > > > I think it would be time to use discernment, rather than judgments of
> > > > > > others (two Virgo issues, one positive expression of Virgo, and one
> > > > > > negative)--that is what I meant I believed the critical degree
> > > > > > conjunction
> > > > > > would imply:-)
> > > > > :) OK. Either/or. + or -
> > > > Yes, true.
> > Virgo is also the 12th of others, so our perspective alters when we see
> > others going through difficulties, this perspective alteration is meant
> > to evoke compassion (reflex from Pisces) so that the real-ization that
> > we are all one comes into consciousness.
> This is an interesting way of looking at things. I want to remember to
> try this.
Because we ARE all one, the chart reflects this to us, everything from 7
on is the others 1, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Being of service (6) alleviates
others limitations or disfficulty (their 12th).
True but Uranus being triggered by personal planets indicates (in
Gemini) that ideas and beliefs that are unconscious (Uranus) are being
evoked by personal need to prove certain ideas (Mars/Venus) in
opposition to others, hence ego motivations are the result (shooting
others as a way to FORCE those beliefs upon the others).
> > > =snip=
> > > > > > He just keeps repeating crap about killing sitting ducks for peace as if
> > > > > > it will then make his "they tried to kill my daddy" agenda seem like it
> > > > > > might have something to do with reality, when it doesn't. This is a
> > > > > > prime example of a Mercury in Leo rigid ego blinder effect in high gear.
> > > > > > He wants to sacrifice Americans, the economy, world peace and high
> > > > > > opinion of the US all over the world for his "daddy" and his OCD agenda,
> > > > > > when all Clinton had was a blowjob that was harped on for two terms, and
> > > > > > what do the people do now? Ignore him and let the crap continue. Does no
> > > > > > one get this or see this as I do?
> > > > > I know there are more that do:)
> > > > As you can see the protests are growing.
> > > Yes :)
> > Wait until the conflicts with other countries mounts, the division of
> > the world creates pain and suffering, and my prediction that he will go
> > down as the worst president in history will come true.
> Think he'll beat Reagan and Nixon?! :) If that's true, this country is
> just........spiralling :\
Both of thopse presidents are held in esteem by Republicans, so I guess
it depends on who you are:-)
> > Thanks for your posts Olivia and hope all is well with you:-)
> You're welcome! :D And I am fine. Thank you.
Good! You are perfect no matter what anyway:-)
(22) Jesus saw infants being suckled.
He said to His disciples,
"These infants being suckled
are like those who enter the Kingdom."
They said to Him,
"Shall we then, as children, enter the Kingdom?"
Jesus said to them,
"When you make the two one,
and when you make the inside like the outside
and the outside like the inside,
and the above like the below,
and when you make the male and the female one and the same,
so that the male not be male nor the female female;
and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,
and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot,
and a likeness in place of a likeness;
then will you enter [the Kingdom]."
- The [Coptic] Gospel of Thomas, v.22
Olivia
>
> Olivia wrote:
"...an integral concept is the motivating factor, not personal
self-serving control."
This is what reminded me of that person's work towards making a vision
reality, and the vision is actually related to the idea of the integral
concept not being self-serving.
> > Yes, I see. Umm, all 3 in 11, sextile Neptune/Venus conjunction (opp.
> > Saturn), square Moon, trine Saturn, with Sun conjunct Uranus in 12.
>
> I would see the Venus/Neptune conjunction as visionary for sure, as well
> as Uranus conjunct Sun in 12 (natural house of Neptune).
> This is why I
> asked, because a chart always has reinforcing momentum
> indicators--meaning; the same conceptual notion can be found as we go
> around the chart in delineation. This is why it is so hard to isolate
> this and that as meaning this or that. And why astrologers are having a
> hard time validating astrology scientifically, because it IS more like a
> painting, wherein the colors of the chart give us a picture of what the
> psyche is focused on.
And they have a lot of Libra which then, must reinforce the
not-self-serving idea too.
This is a quote I ran across that reminded me of this discussion:
"A vision without a task is a dream.
A task without a vision is drudgery.
A vision and a task is the hope of the world". --Inscription on the wall
of a church in Sussex, England, 1730
> > > > > > > The good of the whole is the end result of this
> > > > > > > transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
> > > > > > > behind such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move
> > > > > > > the mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part
> > > > > > > of the idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or
> > > > > > > limit.
This is something I need to remember, even though I don't have that
aspect--that "the 'mountain' is a part of the idea being expressed,
there to serve and not to block or limit."
> > > > > > Thanks for this excellent Mars/Pluto delineation. So accurate!
>
> > > > > You are welcome. Please continue posting:-)
>
> > Thank you :)
> > =sneep=
> > > > > > > I think it would be time to use discernment, rather than judgments of
> > > > > > > others (two Virgo issues, one positive expression of Virgo, and one
> > > > > > > negative)--that is what I meant I believed the critical degree
> > > > > > > conjunction
> > > > > > > would imply:-)
>
> > > > > > :) OK. Either/or. + or -
>
> > > > > Yes, true.
>
> > > Virgo is also the 12th of others, so our perspective alters when we see
> > > others going through difficulties, this perspective alteration is meant
> > > to evoke compassion (reflex from Pisces) so that the real-ization that
> > > we are all one comes into consciousness.
>
> > This is an interesting way of looking at things. I want to remember to
> > try this.
>
> Because we ARE all one, the chart reflects this to us, everything from 7
> on is the others 1, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Being of service (6) alleviates
> others limitations or disfficulty (their 12th).
This could be helpful--going all the way around the chart using this
idea! Actually having a list. I can't seem to get it to "click"
myself, right now though-- I need to use the right keywords and action
involved.
=snip=
And probably the protestors who were trying to prove certain ideas too?
> > > > =snip=
>
> > > > > > > He just keeps repeating crap about killing sitting ducks for peace as if
> > > > > > > it will then make his "they tried to kill my daddy" agenda seem like it
> > > > > > > might have something to do with reality, when it doesn't. This is a
> > > > > > > prime example of a Mercury in Leo rigid ego blinder effect in high gear.
> > > > > > > He wants to sacrifice Americans, the economy, world peace and high
> > > > > > > opinion of the US all over the world for his "daddy" and his OCD agenda,
> > > > > > > when all Clinton had was a blowjob that was harped on for two terms, and
> > > > > > > what do the people do now? Ignore him and let the crap continue. Does no
> > > > > > > one get this or see this as I do?
>
> > > > > > I know there are more that do:)
>
> > > > > As you can see the protests are growing.
>
> > > > Yes :)
>
> > > Wait until the conflicts with other countries mounts, the division of
> > > the world creates pain and suffering, and my prediction that he will go
> > > down as the worst president in history will come true.
>
> > Think he'll beat Reagan and Nixon?! :) If that's true, this country is
> > just........spiralling :\
>
> Both of thopse presidents are held in esteem by Republicans, so I guess
> it depends on who you are:-)
So....you disagree? :)
> > > Thanks for your posts Olivia and hope all is well with you:-)
>
> > You're welcome! :D And I am fine. Thank you.
>
> Good! You are perfect no matter what anyway:-)
:) Yes, everything is there for a reason.
> (22) Jesus saw infants being suckled.
> He said to His disciples,
> "These infants being suckled
> are like those who enter the Kingdom."
>
> They said to Him,
> "Shall we then, as children, enter the Kingdom?"
> Jesus said to them,
>
> "When you make the two one,
> and when you make the inside like the outside
> and the outside like the inside,
> and the above like the below,
> and when you make the male and the female one and the same,
> so that the male not be male nor the female female;
> and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,
> and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot,
> and a likeness in place of a likeness;
> then will you enter [the Kingdom]."
>
> - The [Coptic] Gospel of Thomas, v.22
I have to admit, I don't understand that quote when it gets to the body
parts: A hand for a hand and a foot for a foot, etc. etc.
What's the difference?
--
Olivia Olsen
PP2K
"Olivia" <y0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3E5BF6E7...@yahoo.com...
: Edmond Wollmann wrote:
: >
: > Olivia wrote:
Flush sock puppet post.
Edmond Wollmann
> Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > Olivia wrote:
> =snip=
snippage
> > > > > > Can you share the chart?
> > > > > Oh, no it's not mine to share.
> > > > OK, it is hard for me to see the conjunction as a vision and was looking
> > > > for another aspect that might reflect this more.
> "...an integral concept is the motivating factor, not personal
> self-serving control."
I see, yes.
> This is what reminded me of that person's work towards making a vision
> reality, and the vision is actually related to the idea of the integral
> concept not being self-serving.
> > > Yes, I see. Umm, all 3 in 11, sextile Neptune/Venus conjunction (opp.
> > > Saturn), square Moon, trine Saturn, with Sun conjunct Uranus in 12.
> > I would see the Venus/Neptune conjunction as visionary for sure, as well
> > as Uranus conjunct Sun in 12 (natural house of Neptune).
> > This is why I
> > asked, because a chart always has reinforcing momentum
> > indicators--meaning; the same conceptual notion can be found as we go
> > around the chart in delineation. This is why it is so hard to isolate
> > this and that as meaning this or that. And why astrologers are having a
> > hard time validating astrology scientifically, because it IS more like a
> > painting, wherein the colors of the chart give us a picture of what the
> > psyche is focused on.
> And they have a lot of Libra which then, must reinforce the
> not-self-serving idea too.
Well, careful here, Libra can actaully be quite self-serving in the need
to get ego attention through approval (the polar opposite of Aries) that
is why Mars is debilitated in Libra, because the tactics to get ego
reinforcement are in the "wrong" mode for integrity and positive belief.
> This is a quote I ran across that reminded me of this discussion:
> "A vision without a task is a dream.
> A task without a vision is drudgery.
> A vision and a task is the hope of the world". --Inscription on the wall
> of a church in Sussex, England, 1730
Kinda like this:
"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful." Samuel Johnson
:-)
> > > > > > > > The good of the whole is the end result of this
> > > > > > > > transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
> > > > > > > > behind such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move
> > > > > > > > the mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part
> > > > > > > > of the idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or
> > > > > > > > limit.
> This is something I need to remember, even though I don't have that
> aspect--that "the 'mountain' is a part of the idea being expressed,
> there to serve and not to block or limit."
Yes, and the reason people have so much trouble "overcoming" Saturn,
because it APPEARS the mountain is outside of us and not a part of the
reality we have created.
Everything in the "prop set" of the reality we create is a PART of the
path we chose to be, not an interruption to it. But when we believe
things outside of us, our own creations look like opposition instead of
support.
> > > > > > > Thanks for this excellent Mars/Pluto delineation. So accurate!
> > > > > > You are welcome. Please continue posting:-)
> > > Thank you :)
> > > =sneep=
> > > > > > > > I think it would be time to use discernment, rather than judgments of
> > > > > > > > others (two Virgo issues, one positive expression of Virgo, and one
> > > > > > > > negative)--that is what I meant I believed the critical degree
> > > > > > > > conjunction
> > > > > > > > would imply:-)
> > > > > > > :) OK. Either/or. + or -
> > > > > > Yes, true.
> > > > Virgo is also the 12th of others, so our perspective alters when we see
> > > > others going through difficulties, this perspective alteration is meant
> > > > to evoke compassion (reflex from Pisces) so that the real-ization that
> > > > we are all one comes into consciousness.
> > > This is an interesting way of looking at things. I want to remember to
> > > try this.
> > Because we ARE all one, the chart reflects this to us, everything from 7
> > on is the others 1, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Being of service (6) alleviates
> > others limitations or disfficulty (their 12th).
> This could be helpful--going all the way around the chart using this
> idea! Actually having a list. I can't seem to get it to "click"
> myself, right now though-- I need to use the right keywords and action
> involved.
Just turn the chart; the 7th is the 1st of others and the "public". The
8th is the 2nd of others, and round and round.
Deep meaningful sexual experience (8) is the effect of values
interaction on an emotional inner level between others values (8) and
our values (2).
Philosophical notions (9) are the effect of the blending (mutable) of
our thinking (3) with the collective or cultural "thought" (9).
I haven't really looked at the whole chart configurations, but most
often, actually, ALWAYS, an idea will be represented many times in one
chart in many different ways, and the law of momentum flow I speak of in
my book, is delineation of the IDEA thatr any chart or combination
thereofe--is.
> > True but Uranus being triggered by personal planets indicates (in
> > Gemini) that ideas and beliefs that are unconscious (Uranus) are being
> > evoked by personal need to prove certain ideas (Mars/Venus) in
> > opposition to others, hence ego motivations are the result (shooting
> > others as a way to FORCE those beliefs upon the others).
> And probably the protestors who were trying to prove certain ideas too?
Of course! It is ALL ONE IDEA and event, with the polarities and
participants who most closely align with that idea, obviously there,
because we create our reality by our desires and beliefs and then are
attracted to the events which REFLECT the ideas that we are.
This needs further clarification. I speak of it in my book under
discernment VS Judgment.
> > > > > =snip=
> > > > > > > > He just keeps repeating crap about killing sitting ducks for peace as if
> > > > > > > > it will then make his "they tried to kill my daddy" agenda seem like it
> > > > > > > > might have something to do with reality, when it doesn't. This is a
> > > > > > > > prime example of a Mercury in Leo rigid ego blinder effect in high gear.
> > > > > > > > He wants to sacrifice Americans, the economy, world peace and high
> > > > > > > > opinion of the US all over the world for his "daddy" and his OCD agenda,
> > > > > > > > when all Clinton had was a blowjob that was harped on for two terms, and
> > > > > > > > what do the people do now? Ignore him and let the crap continue. Does no
> > > > > > > > one get this or see this as I do?
> > > > > > > I know there are more that do:)
> > > > > > As you can see the protests are growing.
> > > > > Yes :)
> > > > Wait until the conflicts with other countries mounts, the division of
> > > > the world creates pain and suffering, and my prediction that he will go
> > > > down as the worst president in history will come true.
> > > Think he'll beat Reagan and Nixon?! :) If that's true, this country is
> > > just........spiralling :\
> > Both of those presidents are held in esteem by Republicans, so I guess
> > it depends on who you are:-)
> So....you disagree? :)
No, they certainly were the worst presidents in terms of helping people,
it seems all Republicans nowadays are bent on taking power from the
people, which is interesting because they were the ones on the opposite
end of the spectrum during Lincoln's presidency.
Reagan destroyed any semblance of mental health potential for the public
and basically denounced mental health needs, and ironically (and of
course from the "create your own reality" view--logically) became a
victim of it. Nixon was the epitomy of Saturnian power and strategy
delusion.
I believe it means that if we are made in the "image" of God, then we
ourselves are interchangable as the ALL THAT IS, and all is one.
Thank you for your posting once again:-)
"Now, recognize that the personality is not who nor what you are.
Personality is, we shall say, an artificial construct, a facade (not in
a negative term, but a mask) created so that you can have and express,
in your physical reality, the idea that you call mentality: thought,
analysis, rationalization, reason. With this tool of personality, you
can, then, know that you have created a specific mechanism or channel
for the consciousness' point of view or philosophy and, therefore, that
philosophy will be expressed in your own unique way, colored, if you
will, by the unique personality or mentality that has been created to
express it." Bashar and the New Metaphysics.
Olivia
Yes, I see. This Mars is in Virgo with Pluto and Mercury, in 11. Sun
conjunct Uranus in Libra in 12--Libra rising. Most of the approval
sought is the result of being an advocate for others. Positive Libra:)
> > This is a quote I ran across that reminded me of this discussion:
>
> > "A vision without a task is a dream.
> > A task without a vision is drudgery.
> > A vision and a task is the hope of the world". --Inscription on the wall
> > of a church in Sussex, England, 1730
>
> Kinda like this:
> "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
> integrity is dangerous and dreadful." Samuel Johnson
>
> :-)
:) yes.
> > > > > > > > > The good of the whole is the end result of this
> > > > > > > > > transforming energy. And when the higher self IS the driving force
> > > > > > > > > behind such a conjunction, the resources available are unlimited to move
> > > > > > > > > the mountain, simply from the recognition of the mountain being a part
> > > > > > > > > of the idea being expressed, there to serve, and not there to block or
> > > > > > > > > limit.
>
> > This is something I need to remember, even though I don't have that
> > aspect--that "the 'mountain' is a part of the idea being expressed,
> > there to serve and not to block or limit."
>
> Yes, and the reason people have so much trouble "overcoming" Saturn,
> because it APPEARS the mountain is outside of us and not a part of the
> reality we have created.
Sure does :)
A bit simplified but....
7/1 identity experiencing other identities = relationship
8/2 values interaction with others = meaningful emotional/sexual
experience
9/3 thought blended with collective thought = philosophies/ideas
10/4 strategy used to establish & support beliefs = tangible/physical
results
11/5 creative expression interaction = mutual appreciation/friendship
12/6 being of service alleviates others difficulties
> > =snip=
So the more we are aware of our unconscious--or when we make the
unconscious, conscious, we are able to use discernment more than
subjective value judgments, and are less ego-involved.
> > > > > > =snip=
>
> > > > > > > > > He just keeps repeating crap about killing sitting ducks for peace as if
> > > > > > > > > it will then make his "they tried to kill my daddy" agenda seem like it
> > > > > > > > > might have something to do with reality, when it doesn't. This is a
> > > > > > > > > prime example of a Mercury in Leo rigid ego blinder effect in high gear.
> > > > > > > > > He wants to sacrifice Americans, the economy, world peace and high
> > > > > > > > > opinion of the US all over the world for his "daddy" and his OCD agenda,
> > > > > > > > > when all Clinton had was a blowjob that was harped on for two terms, and
> > > > > > > > > what do the people do now? Ignore him and let the crap continue. Does no
> > > > > > > > > one get this or see this as I do?
>
> > > > > > > > I know there are more that do:)
>
> > > > > > > As you can see the protests are growing.
>
> > > > > > Yes :)
>
> > > > > Wait until the conflicts with other countries mounts, the division of
> > > > > the world creates pain and suffering, and my prediction that he will go
> > > > > down as the worst president in history will come true.
>
> > > > Think he'll beat Reagan and Nixon?! :) If that's true, this country is
> > > > just........spiralling :\
>
> > > Both of those presidents are held in esteem by Republicans, so I guess
> > > it depends on who you are:-)
>
> > So....you disagree? :)
>
> No, they certainly were the worst presidents in terms of helping people,
> it seems all Republicans nowadays are bent on taking power from the
> people,
This brings to mind People's Park, Berkeley in 1969--around the last 2
weeks in May. Gov. Reagan (was he a Republican then?) sent the National
Guard to drop CS(sp?) teargas (developed for Viet Nam, but I think was
not allowed to be used there) at the same time a fence was being put up
and the people and kids in the park were trapped; the teargas also
caused hospitalization of people living nearby and schoolkids. This was
done in order to protect a piece of University property where houses had
been demolished and it had become a parking lot. Reagan did this to
protect it from the local people who had cleaned up, planted trees,
grass and flowers and made playground equipment for it.
> which is interesting because they were the ones on the opposite
> end of the spectrum during Lincoln's presidency.
I wonder how that happened.
> Reagan destroyed any semblance of mental health potential for the public
> and basically denounced mental health needs, and ironically (and of
> course from the "create your own reality" view--logically) became a
> victim of it. Nixon was the epitomy of Saturnian power and strategy
> delusion.
Strategy delusion.....paranoia?
Ah, so "what's the difference?" was close :)
> Thank you for your posting once again:-)
I have been enjoying it and learning, thank you! :)
> "Now, recognize that the personality is not who nor what you are.
> Personality is, we shall say, an artificial construct, a facade (not in
> a negative term, but a mask) created so that you can have and express,
> in your physical reality, the idea that you call mentality: thought,
> analysis, rationalization, reason. With this tool of personality, you
> can, then, know that you have created a specific mechanism or channel
> for the consciousness' point of view or philosophy and, therefore, that
> philosophy will be expressed in your own unique way, colored, if you
> will, by the unique personality or mentality that has been created to
> express it." Bashar and the New Metaphysics.
> --
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A. remove-to mail me
> © 2003 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> Newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated.metapsych aa...@stump.algebra.com
> Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
> Artworks http://www.e-wollmann.com
--
Olivia Olsen
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -- Abraham Lincoln
Edmond Wollmann
> > Olivia wrote:
> > > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > > > Olivia wrote:
> > > =snip=
> > snippage
> > I see, yes.
I would see that as the 12th house reflection (compassion,
understanding).
> > > > > > > > Yes, true.
Yes, of course which then becomes ONE idea, astrology IS simple anyway.
There really only is 6 basic houses in astrology, that is one to six.
> 8/2 values interaction with others = meaningful emotional/sexual
> experience
That then become one value structure, yes.
> 9/3 thought blended with collective thought = philosophies/ideas
> 10/4 strategy used to establish & support beliefs = tangible/physical
> results
Except you are using the 7-12 as the basis. I would see it as inner
beliefs and established thought (4th, and the 4th is the second
(structure) of the 3rd) creating the actrual physical reality one
experiences as status and manifestation (10). I see the first six as the
"cause" so to speak, of the 7-12 houses.
> 11/5 creative expression interaction = mutual appreciation/friendship
True:-)
> 12/6 being of service alleviates others difficulties
Yes, the horoscope is all one thing, just like the participants it
reflects.
> > > =snip=
> > > > > > > > > > > time of the peaceful (at first) demonstration against this
> > > > > > > > > > > action.
> > > > > > > > > > A "battle" of wits becomes a real battle.
> > > > > > > > > One side fighting a mental battle (protesting/verbal), the other
> > > > > > > > > physical (hearing "fightin' words") and neither wanting to fight on the
> > > > > > > > > level of the other.
> > > > > > > > Interesting how a collective mental battle is reflected in personal
> > > > > > > > planets.
> > > > > > > You believe this is true?
> > > > > > Mars and Venus are personal planets, although conjunct Uranus, they are
> > > > > > still personality focused.
> > > > > I meant if it actually is reflected in the personal planets and not
> > > > > somewhere else that I haven't noticed :) Is that not a usual thing to
> > > > > happen?
> > I haven't really looked at the whole chart configurations, but most
> > often, actually, ALWAYS, an idea will be represented many times in one
> > chart in many different ways, and the law of momentum flow I speak of in
> > my book, is delineation of the IDEA that any chart or combination
> > thereof--is.
> > > > True but Uranus being triggered by personal planets indicates (in
> > > > Gemini) that ideas and beliefs that are unconscious (Uranus) are being
> > > > evoked by personal need to prove certain ideas (Mars/Venus) in
> > > > opposition to others, hence ego motivations are the result (shooting
> > > > others as a way to FORCE those beliefs upon the others).
> > > And probably the protestors who were trying to prove certain ideas too?
> > Of course! It is ALL ONE IDEA and event, with the polarities and
> > participants who most closely align with that idea, obviously there,
> > because we create our reality by our desires and beliefs and then are
> > attracted to the events which REFLECT the ideas that we are.
> > This needs further clarification. I speak of it in my book under
> > discernment VS Judgment.
> So the more we are aware of our unconscious--or when we make the
> unconscious, conscious, we are able to use discernment more than
> subjective value judgments, and are less ego-involved.
Yes!:-)
"When an inner situation is not made concious, it appears outside as
fate." C.G. Jung
> > > > > > > =snip=
> > > > > > > Yes :)
> > > So....you disagree? :)
Yes, as I have stated many times, when we give power to governmental
institutions to take responsibility for our reality, they may usurp
responsibility for things we don't want them to.
People have become accustomed to being doubtful and believing they need
protection, even from themselves. This is because religion has instilled
the idea that we are inherently evil and need to be controlled--Freud
didn't help with his ID and drive reduction crap.
"We know the whole idea of how we feel in that sense.
We trust ourselves as aspects of the infinite.
Therefore we interact spontaneously, without necessarily having to
"plan" anything, without having to "make sure" everything will go "as
planned,"...
.... we do not need the "insurance" of something to "fall back" on should
what we go for "fail."
All of these ideas are doubts and mistrusts of the true
unconditionalness of our love." Bashar, "Southern Exposure"
> > which is interesting because they were the ones on the opposite
> > end of the spectrum during Lincoln's presidency.
> I wonder how that happened.
If you will notice throughout history, each polarity and spectrum of
experience reverse its ends of that spectrum, it is a collective
overcompensational pendulum, just like I discuss on a personal level in
my book. This then appears as karma.
> > Reagan destroyed any semblance of mental health potential for the public
> > and basically denounced mental health needs, and ironically (and of
> > course from the "create your own reality" view--logically) became a
> > victim of it. Nixon was the epitomy of Saturnian power and strategy
> > delusion.
> Strategy delusion.....paranoia?
Placing all power outside the self in "strategy and manipulation" to
"control" his image. Placing all power in Saturn brings on the
delusional aspects of believing that the you you believe yourself to be,
is all you are. By denouncing Neptune, we create physical world
delusion, by ignoring and denouncing Saturn, we delude ourselves into
other world issuse. There must be a balance.
True:-))
> > Thank you for your posting once again:-)
> I have been enjoying it and learning, thank you! :)
And I as well. Thank you for serving me in that way.
> "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
> character, give him power." -- Abraham Lincoln
Yes, allow him to believe in his power. Then integrity becomes the most
important issue. But getting the average person (like the abusers who
demonstrate they can't get past this) to believe in themselves first, to
then learn to use their power in a positive way, is a hurdle the
powerless find themselves unable to either see or surmount. Because
their addiction to external domination delusions blinds them to the
truth.
"The senses turn outward; Man therefore looks towards what is outside,
and sees not the inward being. Rare is the wise man who shuts his eyes
to outward things and so beholds the glory of the Atman within." The
Upanishads