Lore Fitzgerald Sjöberg's new s ite hits the Savage/furry issue
Baboo!
Lukas Österreicher
Interesting post. I'm now referring to the
... what shall we all it? - discussing - on
http://www.thestranger.com/2002-08-08/savage.html
which was indirectly linked to (I hope you also
were meaning this one, Baboo!).
An interesting theory, I must say, but it very
much feels like a not-furry trying to understand
and explain the matter, having been exposed to
a but too much of the sexual matter of furryness
(while this indeed is a matter, it's by far not
all, at least to me).
He creates a theory about furries just based on
the sexual aspect. While I cannot give you a better
aspect, as I'm sure most of you already have a
clear enouth one for yourselves, I feel putting that
theory too much down (sorry for my crude english).
It may well be one of the many reasons furry-liking
people join this community.
Some better theory, or rather, it is just an insight
letting you make your own theorys based on it, I found
posted here recently, and I would rather turn to this
and show it (and other articles) to friends who barely
understand (as I just recently began with my "coming
out" on furryness):
http://www.visi.com/~phantos/furrysoc.html
But gosh, this article does so much sound like the
MTV report another furry gave me a copy of. While I
did like it then, I feel taken wrong by it now.
I just attended the EuroFurence 8, and I was delighted.
I was able to cuddle many furry friends - fursuited
or not, and while it was new to me, ajusting to it,
I soon left behind - well, mostly ^-^, the sexual
aspect of scritching and the like which I had, because
it is not at all like that. But I found it easily to
be confused, and I too, once, was lured into that
confusion when scritching got a bit nicer.
Months ago I found myself thinking and searching for
a Fursuit - which ought to be, speaking honestly,
"fitting" for sexual intercourse aswell - and I (almost?)
started a little flamewar on asking about it. As I attended
the Con, that desire for such a specific suit diminished.
I enjoyed just watching, feeling and cuddling these
furry creatures - and occasionally talking to the person
within it. I did not find it to be a turn on, not a view
that created a desire to "do something with it" - it all
was just comfortable.
Even if I am inexperienced in the furry fandom, I do
hope you enjoyed this insight of a newcomer who's
views have been set right. Tell me if I wasnt clear
enouth on some things.
I may tell you though, that this is an European's view
of it all, and the values and morals might be slightly
different, comparing it to americans - so bear me an
open mind :)
I would love to see your insight to it, maybe referring
to my writings.
Cheers,
Morkeleb
"Baboo!" schrieb:
Lukas Österreicher
below on that page, i just saw through
it and I did not refer to any of them,
but it does confirm my view of that guy
who's giving out "know-it-better"-like
advices.
Um, was it even intended to discuss on
that page, anyway?
Morke
Pegasus316
Lore makes some really good points here, too.
People are trying to defend something that, to the masses, is just plain
hard to understand at the outset. Let's face it, you can't just say, "I
like animal-based humanoid characters" without someone thinking it's
gotta be a "porn thing".
I can't tell you how many times I've been asked that at comic cons and
such. I remember asking Hannibal King to do a pic of the main character
of my webcomic, and he gave me a really long, hard look. :P
"You want me to draw what now?"
Now, granted, asking someone to draw a 10 foot tall horse dude,
especially if they're not a furry artist, is gonna garner raised
eyebrows. I actually had to explain to him that he's the main character
of an action/fantasy webcomic that I'm working on (which, by the way, is
casted predominently by human characters).
Even then, his next question was, "Is this, like, an adult-oriented
comic, or something?" I nearly walked away right there. But, I'd already
given the guy my money. :P
Thankfully, though, he's the only artist who's ever given me a response
like that. Paul Ryan (who's done mainstream comics for years now over at
Marvel and DC) never even batted an eyelash at me when I asked him to do
a pic of the same character. However, that might be due to the fact that
he and I have had numerous meetings at comic cons. ;) Hell, I took a
class he taught about 10 years back, and he still remembers me from
that. (We won't go there, though.) ;)
Getting back on topic, it seems that there are WAY fewer instances of
other fan bases getting the "porn treatment" than Furry fans. Most
likely, it's because, in most cases, other fan bases just don't seem as
hard to understand 'cuz most of the characters are mostly/partially
human. Star Wars is just one example.
Of course there are loopholes in any fandom. Someone can always assume,
though, that the grotesque aliens and such are not part of what makes
the fandom so popular. But, that's only because they don't understand
anything beyond the human characters that make up the bulk of the cast.
Furry doesn't have that same "luxury". Humans aren't part of the
equation. So, people automatically assume that it's some kinda weird,
sick fetish for anyone who's part of the fandom.
My wife and I have been drawing furry for years. Neither one of us does
anything even remotely related to yiff art, and we intend to keep it
that way. Why? Just a preferrence. We don't discourage it. That's not
why we don't draw it. We'd rather be remembered for the characters that
we draw, and not the body parts that we give them. You want a well-hung
horse character? Go check out Doug Winger's stuff. ;) (A damn fine
artist, I might add!)
You want well-endowed canine chicks? ... Go check out Doug Winger's
stuff! ;) (Or any other artist on A.F.E. for that matter. They're all
good in my opinion.) ;)
All in all, the negative press that's being brought about against
furries really shouldn't be taken all that seriously, really. There's
always going to be some kind of negative press, no matter what anyone
does. And, just because there are some people out there who think that
furry artwork is some kind of expression of sexually devient behavior,
that doesn't mean the fandom is dying.
The only way that can happen is if you stop showing interest in it.
And, just like the off-switch on your TV that will keep your kids from
watching shows that you don't want them to, you can always just go to
another website that doesn't feature furry porn in it's archives if you
don't like it. (Run-on sentences are my thing. Can ya tell?) ;)
Well, anywho, that's about all for me.
Seeya!
Adam "Pegasus316" Fullerton
http://wanderingtrials.keenspace.com
http://trialsandtrivializations.keenspace.com
http://www.gamingguardians.com/pg
Lukas Österreicher
So I have basically responded to the wrong article?
It may be the same theme though. I'll re-read it over as
i've got time.
To respond to your post, Adam:
It's sad what response you get, even among artits of roughly
the same genre - so I understood. I can't share that same experience
though, because mostly I don't do art myself - and the bit of writing
I very occasionally do is not to the public.
I wonder where that frame (or rather box) comes from that people put
you in as soon as it gets furry-related. I can't judge their responses
though here because I have not seen any of your art (most of the links
on the bottom don't work, by the way).
Even more vehemently I wonder when they seem to accept furry art
(as I see it to be that) like "The Lion King". Obviously the great mass
sees that as harmless - so where is the difference?
I was also startled by you talking about negative press when you
mainly got bad experience person-to-person. I don't care what press
says anyway - (though I might discuss it) - I do care what people
and friends around me think and tell.
And most don't even get starting to understand what's so interesting
in the furrydom - I got disgusted looks from a long-known good friend
of mine as he saw me wearing a furry T-shirt. He may say to accept it,
but what matters is that he is ok with it, which I feel he isnt.
One more thing about the topics you brought up, Adam: I observe
americans to be rather prude, and even furries often are no exception
to this - judging for the response I once got. In public they react
upset and disgusted, while privatly the practicise just what they
judge worthy of reprimand. (I hope i'm not stepping on someone's
foot with this now.) I won't even get into it really, some of what
ive observed I find horrifying.
I think in europe we have it a little easier with that - even if it is
not really approved, I can publicly tell that I am furry.
Could you give me some examples of your art, Adam? It would be
greatly appreciated.
Greetings,
Morkeleb
no one in particular
"Baboo!" <ba...@dotcult.com> wrote in message
news:61f05fb9.02082...@posting.google.com...
Quote:
"Yet while nobody doubts that many a Metal Bikini Leia action figure has
ended up bespooged, we haven't quite progressed to the point where "Star
Wars Fan" is assumed to mean "Dresses up like Chewie and has sex with
someone dressed up like Admiral Ackbar."
Response: You *KNOW* this is going to end up in a Something Awful Photoshop
Friday, don't you? Any excuse for an Ackbar insertion with them.
...
Okay, that was an unintentional and thoroughly frightening pun. Why do I
get the feeling it could be a new catchphrase?
Quote:
"So does that mean that the furries are misunderstood and maligned
innocent Mouseketeers whose reputation is being ruined by a very few
well-hung bad apples?"
Response: Could this be a reason for the anti-spooge puritanicalism? Could
their blather be a cover for severe penis envy? Are the pervs really
"well-hung"? Hmmm...
-Wayd Wolf
Baboo!
> People are trying to defend something that, to the masses, is just plain
> hard to understand at the outset. Let's face it, you can't just say, "I
> like animal-based humanoid characters" without someone thinking it's
> gotta be a "porn thing".
The problem as I see it is that the majority involved in the fandom in
any sort of degree is far too concerned with justifying their
involvement.
If furry is something that you enjoy, then that's all that matters. If
the whole world vilifies you as a goddamn freak, tough shit for them;
you're not supposed to make them happy.
So the SA goons and MTV watchers think you're some sex fiend. Boo-hoo;
you'd never give them the time of day anyways. Have you stopped to
think of who composes those two groups of people? Goddamn
post-pubecent college jackasses, that's who, and if you're worried
about THEM not liking you, you need to stick to better social circles.
Such as furry.
The more you struggle to justify yourself, the worse you make the
situation. Those who replied to Savage's column should be shot. Those
who feel it's necessary to share their hobby with complete strangers
should be shot.
Here, try this: Listen to 2's Gay Pride rant, but replace Gay with
Furry. You'll then see how goddamn silly it is trying to justify being
a furry. Just be happy that you're part of a select group of people
who, at the very least, understand you and welcome you (most of you,
anyways). And the next time some troll on the internet tries to ruffle
your feathers, turn the other cheek and ignore them.
Once we stop giving these jerk-offs what they want, they'll leave us
alone. Maybe then, we can start working on this whole credibility
issue. Just like the Trekkies. :P
Dan Bergen
news:61f05fb9.02082...@posting.google.com:
> The Slumbering Lungfish, it's called.
> http://slumbering.lungfish.com/
>
> Discuss.
I think the most interesting part of this entry is Lore's thoughts about
furry fandom being centred around a motif. In at least one sense, we know
that's true: some people call furry a meta-genre because it crosses the
boundaries of several existing genres. Outside of our cozy little group,
nobody really differentiates between "furry" and "not-furry" works. We
don't get our own section in bookstores, for example.
It seems Lore can only come up with porn-type ideas when it comes to motif
fandoms, so I tried to come up with some unsexy ideas. Unfortunately for
the furry-is-not-about-porn case, I'm finding it tough to find examples
I'm 100% satisfied with. I think alien enthusiasts almost qualify, except
for the fact that extraterrestrials are pretty much confined to science
fiction. He jokes about a "menacing villainous hideout fan," but is there
a fandom for villains? That would probably qualify if it existed, but it
seems so unlikely.
Regardless, I say it's certainly possible to like anthro-animals without a
sexual interest, much like it's possible to appreciate leather without
getting aroused at the thought of it. Like having an interest in the
physiology of feet, without having a foot fetish. Like enjoying the
company of an old woman without picturing her naked. And so on, of
course.
With the "serious" stuff out of the way, I ask: does anyone else find it
amusing that Lore used a term like "addressed the furry issue?" Is that
like "The Jewish Question?" Are we so high on the sociopolitical agenda?
It makes us sound downright significant.
I just found that amusing.
Dan
Cerulean
>The Slumbering Lungfish, it's called.
>http://slumbering.lungfish.com/
>
>Discuss.
The motif analysis is possibly the first genuinely new insight I've
seen on furry fandom and the reactions to it, from inside or out, in
ages.
Yes, furry is not a genre or a style; it is what I would call a
device. The device of superimposing human and animal traits to compare
humans to other animals, which can have any of a number of meanings
and/or effects. And the thing about it is that it's so much more
identifiable than most devices, having such a _visible_ aspect, that
people who are fond of it can connect and develop a fandom. It's
possible for someone to be very fond of other devices, but a fandom
isn't going to grow out of the appreciation of, say, tragic heroes, or
first-person narration.
A convention that's all about characters who are sarcastic jaded
bastards might be cool, but most people prefer to be loyal to genre
first, and it wouldn't hold together. No matter how much the
interested parties might relate to each other on that level, it
wouldn't hold together because of all the disparate interests. It
makes one wonder how furry (marginally) does hold together, in fact.
And most motifs, styles, and devices find a genre or fanbase to
permanently attach themselves to, often arbitrarily, based on the
trendsetters of the genre. For instance, there is a big following for
four-panel online comic strips with stiffly-drawn cut-and-paste/trace
characters with thick outlines, elliptical talk bubbles, and cynical
overtones. These are called "gamer comics" even though some of them
aren't about games. But they _look_ like gamer comics and they get
link traffic from gamer comics, so that's what they are.
Superheroes should by all rights be a device. There's a fandom built
on power fantasies about characters who can do what nobody else can.
It's a device which, in its pure form, spans all genres if you think
about it: Hercules, Paul Bunyan, Pecos Bill, The Flying Nun, The Six
Million Dollar Man, and so on. But its permanent marriage to the
comic-book format and the (equally fetish-like) costume motif made it
into a genre. So the superhero genre is safe from this kind of
scrutiny, even though you might upon examination say that its fanbase
is largely accounted for by the desire to look at perfect muscular
bodies in form-fitting spandex, even if they _do_ appreciate the work
for other reasons.
Now, there are people attaching things to furry fandom in this way,
trying to establish furry as a "style" by homogenizing the way furries
are drawn, or trying to establish furry as a "genre" by limiting furry
comics to a certain kind of story, usually romance fiction. The reason
this isn't working is that (1) many furry fans _like_ the versatility
of the device/motif and fight the narrowing of the definition, and (b)
so many of the popular choices of what "the" furry style or genre is
just tie it more firmly to sex!
Not That There's Anything Wrong With That. I personally think orgasms
are good, and I don't mind mingling sexual stuff with other ideas that
aren't necessarily all about sex. There is, indeed, porn in our
fandom. Since we've proven we can't really effectively fight the
villification of furry fandom based on the fact that some of us enjoy
wanking and having sex with each other, maybe it would be more
productive to work toward the goal of clearing up the popular
unhealthy attitudes about sexual stimulus and what it represents. A
daunting task, I know. But isn't it worth struggling toward something
really positive, instead of accepting the problem as a given and
running in fear? "I'm not the one you want! I'm not a furry! The
perverts are over there, GET 'EM!" You can sacrifice others to try to
save yourself all you want, but it's not going to work in the long
run, because you've still been focusing the attention on furry sex
fiends and how terrible they are, and somehow are surprised later when
people continue to have weird reactions when they find out you draw
cartoon animals!
I'm not saying Ostrich should continue to blabber about whatever he
does, because frankly there's such a thing as too much culture shock
to absorb at once. I'm saying some of the more paranoid and
recalcitrant types should grow some balls and say, "Yes, I create this
because I enjoy it myself. I used my talents to create something that
others with my tastes can enjoy. There's adventure and humor and all
sorts of redeeming social value, and there's also sexy humanoids with
fur and tails and claws and hooves and varying degrees of hypertrophy
and YES IT TURNS ME ON. If you don't like that, TOUGH. I'm having FUN
with my SEXY IMAGINARY CREATURES."
Saying that will get you a lot more respect from people on average
nowadays (it's not like we're starting at square one in the push
against puritanism) than if you tell them "Even though I draw humanoid
animals with big breasts, I'm not into that myself; I'm just pandering
to my disgusting depraved fans for a little bit of money"; anyone with
an ounce of critical reasoning is going to call bullshit if they hear
that. They will do so even if it's the whole truth, because having
priorities that are that messed up is really hard to imagine.
Why do you think there's so much sex, real or imagined, in furry
fandom anyway? It's because we're accustomed to the message that yes,
humans are a kind of animal. It's the truth, and we just happen to be
embracing it better than most people can. Maybe it's our role to help
others catch on if they can handle the idea.
--
___vvz /( Cerulean = Kevin Pease http://cerulean.st/
<__,` Z / ( DC2.~D GmAL~W-R+++Ac~J+S+Fr++IH$M-V+++Cbl,spu
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( hJJaLd-,,hemhue 6u!ua+s!7 s! auo-ou 'a)edS uI,,
Baloo Ursidae
Hash: SHA1
Baboo! <ba...@dotcult.com> wrote:
> So the SA goons and MTV watchers think you're some sex fiend. Boo-hoo;
> you'd never give them the time of day anyways. Have you stopped to
> think of who composes those two groups of people? Goddamn
> post-pubecent college jackasses, that's who, and if you're worried
> about THEM not liking you, you need to stick to better social circles.
> Such as furry.
I think you're overestimating the age group. More like
"possibly post-pubecent high-school trendoid jackasses."
> The more you struggle to justify yourself, the worse you make the
> situation. Those who replied to Savage's column should be shot. Those
> who feel it's necessary to share their hobby with complete strangers
> should be shot.
So those guys that set up that amazingly huge modular HO-scale model
train layout at the convention center around Christmas should be shot?
People who wear "I'd rather be fishing" t-shirts should be shot?
Cyclists should be shot?
- --
Baloo
PS. Gov Kitzhaber shares the fact he goes fishing every weekend on a
somewhat regular basis. His favorite fishing spot is classified
information. You think he should be shot?
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Baloo Ursidae
Hash: SHA1
no one in particular <wayd...@nothotmail.com> wrote:
> Response: You *KNOW* this is going to end up in a Something Awful Photoshop
> Friday, don't you? Any excuse for an Ackbar insertion with them.
If that happens, I'll be amazed. LFS tends to not run nearly as base
as SA and I don't think there's a whole lot of crossover between the
readership.
> Okay, that was an unintentional and thoroughly frightening pun. Why do I
> get the feeling it could be a new catchphrase?
ALL YOUR ACKBAR INSERTION ARE BELONG TO US !
- --
Baloo
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Karl Xydexx Jorgensen
>I think you're overestimating the age group. More like
>"possibly post-pubecent high-school trendoid jackasses."
interest tend to be between 19-22 years old, with the occasional
thirtysomething guy like Hangdog who hasn't moved on to better things. The
ones who list Something Awful are mostly between 16-21 years old (although
weighted slightly toward the 19-21 side) so they could be fratboy trendoid
jackasses who still can't spell "the" properly.
--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
Anthrofurry Infocenter:
http://www.xydexx.com/anthrofurry
Baboo!
> So those guys that set up that amazingly huge modular HO-scale model
> train layout at the convention center around Christmas should be shot?
> People who wear "I'd rather be fishing" t-shirts should be shot?
> Cyclists should be shot?
You KNOW when I wrote, "Those who feel it's necessary to share their
hobby with complete strangers should be shot." that I was referring to
furry. Pardon my grammar.
But while we're here, do you condone some fur running around with a
shirt saying something to the effect of, "I YIFF FOR SPOOGE?"
Rann Aridorn
poledance that they wrote:
>> So those guys that set up that amazingly huge modular HO-scale model
>> train layout at the convention center around Christmas should be
>> shot? People who wear "I'd rather be fishing" t-shirts should be
>> shot? Cyclists should be shot?
>
> You KNOW when I wrote, "Those who feel it's necessary to share their
> hobby with complete strangers should be shot." that I was referring to
> furry. Pardon my grammar.
Oh, so no other hobby than furry should be punished, because you
specifically do not want to be reminded of it or see it in public?
So, I suppose PETA could easily make an argument that anyone that wears
one of those "I'd rather be fishing" t-shirts should be shot.
> But while we're here, do you condone some fur running around with a
> shirt saying something to the effect of, "I YIFF FOR SPOOGE?"
Yes.
--
-Rann Aridorn
========
You WILL worship the cuteness!
http://www.hamtaro.com
Little hamsters, big adventures.
Hamtaro... anime hamsters, providing some giggles, some smiles, and a
good deal of aural prozac with their theme music.
Hamtaro: The cure for flamewars.
Put this in your hampsterdance and click it!
Lukas Österreicher
rather more upsetting, and I find, not only to me.
And I felt you pointing at me, while saying this.
So let me tell you... I am not going to deny what I am.
Not to friends. Public that is another thing... and I
think I said I did not care about what the public
thought of it, so that should go along... does it?
Furthermore, I will stand to such things. Not running away,
when necessary. I do quote something here displays the
view that I mean, a quote out of this year's Euro Furence
program-folder:
General Conduct
Eurofurence likes to present itself as a small,
but professional convention. We also hope that each
attendee has all the fun that our wide-ranging
community can provide. Please be considerate of
how your actions reflect on the convention and how
they may impact or affect others.
We take pride in our appearance and we want you
to as well while still having fun. Offending
newcomers, visitors and youth hostel personnel
is not appropriate. Impressing them with how
much fun and enthusiasm we have in our fandom
is. What you concider to be acceptable behaviour
may not be so for others. We encourage that
courtesy from all participants in our community.
I do hope you will not shoot a whole lot of your
own community :)
>Once we stop giving these jerk-offs what they want, they'll leave us
>alone. Maybe then, we can start working on this whole credibility
>issue.
What do you mean with "what they want"? Standing up for your own -
principles? I am not as optimistic. They will likely not stop it
wether we stop it or not... And credability? Where there is difference,
there always will be the potential lack of understanding. And I am
proud to be different. I will be happy if I meet some understanding
people, and I will let alone, even ignore the others. Well - at least
so are my intendings.
Morkeleb
Pegasus316
> Could you give me some examples of your art, Adam? It would be
> greatly appreciated.
Actually, I'm surprised the links didn't work for you before.
Hmmm...
Well, you could always check out my FurNation site. I just noticed that
the server went back up today, thankfully. :)
http://www.FurNation.com/Pegasus316
If that doesn't work, try the links from my first post again. I know the
server is up, as I tested it just moments before posting this reply.
Good luck! And, I hope ya like what ya see. ;)
Seeya!
Adam "Pegasus316" Fullerton
Pegasus316
"Baboo!" wrote:
> The problem as I see it is that the majority involved in the fandom in
> any sort of degree is far too concerned with justifying their
> involvement.
I agree 100%. And, to some degree, admittedly, I'm guilty of that
myself. However, it's been a while since I've felt a need to, and from
this point on, I'll make it a point to avoid attempting such a thing.
Point taken. ;)
> If furry is something that you enjoy, then that's all that matters. If
> the whole world vilifies you as a goddamn freak, tough shit for them;
> you're not supposed to make them happy.
True enough. However, my justification behind trying to "get along" with
both sides is simply an attempt (however benign that attempt may be) to
stir as few ripples in the water as possible.
The "whole world", in this case being the majority of the known
population, will hardly give a furry a second glance if it's not
something that they agree with. However, there are those who are more
tactless, and vocal. It's these people that most fanatics (of any genre)
fear.
Why? Because they don't want to be ridiculed for something they find
fun/amusing/entertaining/gratifying. They see no need for someone to go
out of their way to ridicule them for it. But, by the same token, these
same people probably have one or two interests that could just as easily
be ridiculed by others. Glass houses, folks. Just gotta look for 'em.
> So the SA goons and MTV watchers think you're some sex fiend. Boo-hoo;
> you'd never give them the time of day anyways. Have you stopped to
> think of who composes those two groups of people? Goddamn
> post-pubecent college jackasses, that's who, and if you're worried
> about THEM not liking you, you need to stick to better social circles.
> Such as furry.
Okay, this one's a bit more opinionated than I can really justify a
full-on agreement with. This is not to say that I don't agree with most
of what you said, by any means. You're right, of course, about the
demographic that we're dealing with.
However, selecting an age group/clique isn't necessarily the
be-all/end-all of the discussion in this case. Let's face it, there are
a lot of "post-pubecent college jackasses" that belong to the furry
community, too. I've met a few. Trust me, they ain't good with the art
of conversation. :P
On the whole, I do agree with you. But, for my money, I prefer to think
that some of the people who've watched this stuff didn't get taken in by
it completely. Some just might need a bit of a redirected gaze to
understand the whole issue, rather than just what MTV decided to show
the general public.
> The more you struggle to justify yourself, the worse you make the
> situation. Those who replied to Savage's column should be shot. Those
> who feel it's necessary to share their hobby with complete strangers
> should be shot.
Justification also varies based on situation, I think. Obviously, if
you've got someone who, on the outset, is pretty indignant about the
whole topic of furries, then there's no way you're gonna sway his/her
opinion through calm conversation.
IF, however, they seem pretty calm, and aren't completely repulsed by
the idea upon bringing up the topic, then there's still hope in my
opinion.
As for the vehement defenders of all that is furry who posted to the
various flames, articles and threads in vain attempts to clear the good
name of the furry fandom... well... I'm afraid I'll have to agree with
ya there, too. :P But, only if I can use a lazer site. ;) My aim ain't
what it used to be. ;)
> Here, try this: Listen to 2's Gay Pride rant, but replace Gay with
> Furry. You'll then see how goddamn silly it is trying to justify being
> a furry. Just be happy that you're part of a select group of people
> who, at the very least, understand you and welcome you (most of you,
> anyways). And the next time some troll on the internet tries to ruffle
> your feathers, turn the other cheek and ignore them.
That, usually, isn't even necessary for my wife and I. But, that's
probably because we're not far enough into the line of vision of the
public eye. That being the case, here's hoping we can avoid it for as
long as possible. ;)
> Once we stop giving these jerk-offs what they want, they'll leave us
> alone. Maybe then, we can start working on this whole credibility
> issue. Just like the Trekkies. :P
Whoa... hey now... Let's not have visions of world-domination before we
even conquer the mountain, huh? ;) *sarcasm*
Trekkies are a totally different entity. No less disturbing to the
public eye, but annoying to some degree nonetheless.
It's pretty hypocritical of me to say this, but I happened to be at a
Trek convention a few months back, and couldn't help but marvel at the
sheer oddities that filled the room. And, I'm talking about the
attendees. :P
Went there to meet Shatner, and a few other Trek alumni. Shatner didn't
show up. Typical. The other actors were pleasant enough, if not a little
on the short side. No big surprise there.
But, the fans, all dressed up in cheap Trek-immitation outfits didn't
seem to care one way or the other. Most of 'em, who didn't even seem to
care about the intermixing of genres, were walking about in starfleet
uniforms, carrying light sabres (in some cases, mock-battling with
them), and wearing head-dresses from Babylon 5. I couldn't help but
laugh. :P
It's never been a thing of mine to wear costumes of any sort at
conventions. But, in a way, at least I can understand why they do it.
They want to be a part of something so much bigger than they are on a
personal level.
How much ya wanna bet they'd still find furries "creepy"? ;P
I'll start the bet at 25 creds. ;P
Seeya!
Baboo!
>IT TURNS ME ON. If you don't like that, TOUGH. I'm having FUN
> with my SEXY IMAGINARY CREATURES."
>
> Saying that will get you a lot more respect from people on average
> nowadays
No.
Just no.
And if I heard a fur saying that in public I'd cut his face off and
wear it as a hat.
Stop making this public. Stop making this a movement. Just stop.
Enjoy furry with the appropriate crowds, NOT STRANGERS. Not non-fur
chat rooms, not non-fur message boards, not even non-fur friends, for
God's sake.
Saying something such as that has all the redeeming value as stopping
someone on the street to tell them about your BSDM fantasies. It's
just NOT COOL.
Yes, I'm telling you to hide it. I'm telling you to be low-key. Get
out of this frame of mind where you think it's up to YOU to tell the
whole world about your hobby and the unfortunate erotic baggage it
carries.
If you ever say what's printed above or a reasonable facimile of it,
you just push the fandom back down the shithole it's desperately
trying to clamber out of.
Knock it off. Visit your chatrooms, cyber in your MUCKs, attend your
cons, but for shit's sake, quit telling people about it.
Rann Aridorn
poledance that they wrote:
> And if I heard a fur saying that in public I'd cut his face off and
> wear it as a hat.
... And you're calling people being furry in public the freaks?
Cerulean
>Saying something such as that has all the redeeming value as stopping
>someone on the street to tell them about your BSDM fantasies. It's
>just NOT COOL.
Try to grasp the subtle distinction between broadcasting and honesty.
I'm not saying anyone should call attention to themselves in a crowd
of random people this way. I don't advocate pride parades, awareness
campaigns, or handing out Genus like it's the Watchtower or something.
What I'm saying is that when someone ASKS about this stuff, the worst
possible thing for them to see is for your face to turn bright red
while you stammer, "I'm not one of those sick 'furry' people, so
please don't tell anyone you saw me here..."
When people get curious about something, you can either tell them
about it and they'll think "oh, that's interesting"/"oh, that's
boring," or you can make it seem like a SECRET, in which case they
suddenly get excited about the mystery. The mode shifts from "just
curious" to "REALLY curious" and their top priority becomes finding
out what this dark scandalous dirt is that you're being so evasive
about, so they can dig it up and expose it! By the time they find out
what it is, it's blown completely out of proportion. Even if they
start to get the idea that they don't want to know, they won't be able
to stop themselves from imagining the worst thing they can think of.
Rann Aridorn
poledance that they wrote:
> When people get curious about something, you can either tell them
> about it and they'll think "oh, that's interesting"/"oh, that's
> boring," or you can make it seem like a SECRET, in which case they
> suddenly get excited about the mystery. The mode shifts from "just
> curious" to "REALLY curious" and their top priority becomes finding
> out what this dark scandalous dirt is that you're being so evasive
> about, so they can dig it up and expose it! By the time they find out
> what it is, it's blown completely out of proportion. Even if they
> start to get the idea that they don't want to know, they won't be able
> to stop themselves from imagining the worst thing they can think of.
Oh, give it up. He won't accept he's wrong, even on the matter of people
not broadcasting their real names out over the internet. If he wants to
be a bitch, fine, let him, because he can't actually do a damn thing.
Baboo!
> ... And you're calling people being furry in public the freaks?
Excuse me, but I never said they were freaks. As a matter of fact, I
remember no name calling except in the cases of the SA goons and MTV
shitstoves.
Please get your facts straight before blatently twisting my words.
Rann Aridorn
poledance that they wrote:
> Please get your facts straight before blatently twisting my words.
Um, you said you wanted to cut someone's face off and wear it like a hat.
o.O;;; How much twisting does that TAKE?
Baloo Ursidae
Hash: SHA1
Baboo! <ba...@dotcult.com> wrote:
> But while we're here, do you condone some fur running around with a
> shirt saying something to the effect of, "I YIFF FOR SPOOGE?"
No. But at that point you're confusing the hobby (or arguably,
lifestyle) of furry with sexual interest, which is a whole different
can of worms from the two formers.
- --
Baloo
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Baloo Ursidae
Hash: SHA1
Baboo! <ba...@dotcult.com> wrote:
> Saying something such as that has all the redeeming value as stopping
> someone on the street to tell them about your BSDM fantasies. It's
> just NOT COOL.
OK, someone needs to learn the correct definitions of hobby and
sexuality. You're desperately confused.
> Yes, I'm telling you to hide it. I'm telling you to be low-key. Get
> out of this frame of mind where you think it's up to YOU to tell the
> whole world about your hobby and the unfortunate erotic baggage it
> carries.
Ironically, it's baggage only carried around by equally misguided
people as you. You learned about it third-person from someone who got
the details wrong, and didn't have much information to begin with. So
with what little you had to go on, and natural fear of the unknown,
you assumed the worst and started you're little rampage.
- --
Baloo
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Baboo!
Meh, I'm right, you're wrong. Ha ha.
Dr. Cat
: The problem as I see it is that the majority involved in the fandom in
: any sort of degree is far too concerned with justifying their
: involvement.
Actually it's a very loud minority.
The vast majority of the people in the fandom (tens of thousands, I would
estimate) are fine with it. :X)
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
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Furcadia - a graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: I just need to justify sticking bananas in my ears, is all.)