Philly Org Org Board
Warrior
In article <199806010435...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, one...@aol.com
says...
>
>Sorry-I can't get this in in an org board format--I'll try my best! There are
>*lots* of unfilled posts--even ones like HAS, Tech Sec, etc. There were few
>staff at the Org, and I will only list filled posts. All others are held from
>above:
>
<snip>
>Dept 6-Registration
>-----------------
>BODY REG-Samantha Valarik
>-also ASHO REG EUS Office-Ensign Ken Shapiro
>-----------------------
<snip>
>
>Two interesting points: Philly Org has more OSA than any other admin personnel,
>and for some reason, the ASHO Reg EUS decided to set up his office there.
>
>Charlotte Kates
Thank you, Charlotte.
This is so funny to me! When I first met Kenny Shapiro 23 years ago
he was a Reg at ASHO. My guess is that he was sent to the Philly Org
on a Garrison Mission to get the stats up, get Dept 6 established, get
a Body Reg stably on post there *and* to reg for ASHO, of course. If Kenny
is not on a Garrison Mission, then most likely he is a Remote Reg.
Tell me if Kenny is married and whether he still takes time to be with his child
by Trina, will you?
Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
Warrior
------------------
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One Scio
Sorry-I can't get this in in an org board format--I'll try my best! There are
*lots* of unfilled posts--even ones like HAS, Tech Sec, etc. There were few
staff at the Org, and I will only list filled posts. All others are held from
above:
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-Bonnie Di Martino
EXEC ESTO-Mary Anne Fast
PUBLIC EXEC SEC-Sandy Maurone
Div 7 Executive Div
--------------------------
Dept 21-Office of LRH
---------------------------
LRH COMM- Attilio Di Martino
Double-Hatted FLAG REP- Tim Brunner
Dept 20-OSA
-------------------
DSA- Tim Lomas
DSA ESTO-John Hanlon
DSA PRO- Bruce Thompson
Dept 19-Office of the ED
-------------------------
ED
EXEC ESTO
PES
---------------------
Div 1-HCO
--------------
Dept 3- Dept of Inspections and Reports
---------------
DIR I & R- Christopher Owens
---------------------
Div 2- Dissemination
DISSEM SEC-Colleen O'Neill
----------------------
Dept 6-Registration
-----------------
BODY REG-Samantha Valarik
-also ASHO REG EUS Office-Ensign Ken Shapiro
-----------------------
Div 3- Treasury
TREAS SEC-Steve Wilgus
----------------------
Div 4-Technical
----------------------
Dept 11-Training
ACADEMY LEAD SUP- Edward Di Martino
ACADEMY SUP-Collin Smith Levin
WORD CLEARER-Ali Pearson
COURSE ADMIN-Steve Weed
KTL/LOC SUP-Sandy Lattimore
TECHNICAL TRAINING CORPS-Julianna Owens, Paul Maurone, Renee Ames
------------------------
Dept 12-Processing
INT AUDITORS-Craig Valarik, Rob Rossi
PURIF I/C- David Cormier
-----------------------
Div 5-Qualifications
QUAL SEC-Tim Brunner
----------------------
SENIOR C/S-Kim Loss
Dept 14-Personnel Enhancement
STAFF SECTION OFFICER-David Piech
--------------------------
Div 6-Public (PES-Sandy Maurone)
-------------------------
Div 6A-Public Contact Division
PUBLIC CONTACT SEC-David Santiago
------------------------
Div 6C-Field Control Division
FIELD CONTROL SEC-Helene Furlong
-----------------------
And that's it! There are quite a few families and couples here--
the ED and LRH Comm are married. They have two sons--one is the Academy Lead
Sup, the other was the Body Reg who left staff several weeks before me.
The PES and Paul from the TTC are married. The Dir I&R and Julianna from the
TTC are married, as are the Body Reg and Craig from the TTC. Samantha, the Body
Reg, used to be the ED (Philly Org tend to go through EDs rather quickly) until
about a week before I left, when she was named Body Reg, and Bonnie, the former
PES, promoted to ED. The CLO said Samantha had not established an HCO or
complied with mgmt programs to bring the Org to St. Hill Size. Also, we had
been leading in the Birthday Game until the Reg blew and we went *way*
downstat--so we really needed a Reg.
arnie_lerma
In article <6ktfu0$o...@drn.newsguy.com>, Warrior says...
>>*lots* of unfilled posts--even ones like HAS, Tech Sec, etc. There were few
>>staff at the Org, and I will only list filled posts. All others are held from
>>above:
>>
>>Dept 6-Registration
>>-----------------
>>BODY REG-Samantha Valarik
>>-also ASHO REG EUS Office-Ensign Ken Shapiro
>>-----------------------
>>
>>Two interesting points: Philly Org has more OSA than any other admin personnel,
>>and for some reason, the ASHO Reg EUS decided to set up his office there.
>>
>>Charlotte Kates
>
>
> This is so funny to me! When I first met Kenny Shapiro 23 years ago
>he was a Reg at ASHO. My guess is that he was sent to the Philly Org
>on a Garrison Mission to get the stats up, get Dept 6 established, get
>a Body Reg stably on post there *and* to reg for ASHO, of course. If Kenny
>is not on a Garrison Mission, then most likely he is a Remote Reg.
>
>Tell me if Kenny is married and whether he still takes time to be with his child
>by Trina, will you?
>
> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>
>Warrior
>
Well I'd like to have chat with him.
I was FBO at Pubs US when he was a reg at ASHO 2723 W Temple St across
from Rampart PD
Arnie Lerma
http://www.lermanet.com/82cwcommission/
>------------------
>Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
------------------
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LRonsScam
>From: one...@aol.com (One Scio)
>Date: Mon, Jun 1, 1998 00:35 EDT
>Message-id: <199806010435...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
>
I am just looking for some acronym answers here. There are many parts of this I
don't understand and if someone would post what these acronym's represent would
be helpful.
>Sorry-I can't get this in in an org board format--I'll try my best! There are
>*lots* of unfilled posts--even ones like HAS, Tech Sec, etc. There were few
>staff at the Org, and I will only list filled posts. All others are held from
>above:
>
>EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-Bonnie Di Martino
>EXEC ESTO-Mary Anne Fast
ESTO?
>PUBLIC EXEC SEC-Sandy Maurone
>Div 7 Executive Div
>--------------------------
>Dept 21-Office of LRH
>---------------------------
>LRH COMM- Attilio Di Martino
>Double-Hatted FLAG REP- Tim Brunner
>
>Dept 20-OSA
>-------------------
>DSA- Tim Lomas
>DSA ESTO-John Hanlon
>DSA PRO- Bruce Thompson
DSA......ESTO......PRO....?
>
>Dept 19-Office of the ED
>-------------------------
>ED
>EXEC ESTO
>PES
PES?
>---------------------
>Div 1-HCO
>--------------
>Dept 3- Dept of Inspections and Reports
>---------------
>DIR I & R- Christopher Owens
>---------------------
>Div 2- Dissemination
>DISSEM SEC-Colleen O'Neill
>----------------------
>Dept 6-Registration
>-----------------
>BODY REG-Samantha Valarik
>-also ASHO REG EUS
American saint hill organizaion.....REG....EUS?
Office-Ensign Ken Shapiro
>-----------------------
>Div 3- Treasury
>TREAS SEC-Steve Wilgus
>----------------------
>Div 4-Technical
>----------------------
>Dept 11-Training
>ACADEMY LEAD SUP- Edward Di Martino
>ACADEMY SUP-Collin Smith Levin
>WORD CLEARER-Ali Pearson
>COURSE ADMIN-Steve Weed
>KTL/LOC SUP-Sandy Lattimore
KTL/LOC Supervisor
>TECHNICAL TRAINING CORPS-Julianna Owens, Paul Maurone, Renee Ames
>------------------------
>Dept 12-Processing
>INT AUDITORS-Craig Valarik, Rob Rossi
>PURIF I/C- David Cormier
>-----------------------
>Div 5-Qualifications
>QUAL SEC-Tim Brunner
>----------------------
>SENIOR C/S-Kim Loss
There is a Miles Loss who has a spam page out.
>Dept 14-Personnel Enhancement
>STAFF SECTION OFFICER-David Piech
>--------------------------
>Div 6-Public (PES-Sandy Maurone)
>-------------------------
>Div 6A-Public Contact Division
>PUBLIC CONTACT SEC-David Santiago
>------------------------
>Div 6C-Field Control Division
>FIELD CONTROL SEC-Helene Furlong
>-----------------------
>
>And that's it! There are quite a few families and couples here--
>the ED and LRH Comm are married. They have two sons--one is the Academy Lead
>Sup, the other was the Body Reg who left staff several weeks before me.
Did the parents disconnect from him?
>The PES and Paul from the TTC
TTC?
are married. The Dir I&R and Julianna from the
>TTC are married, as are the Body Reg and Craig from the TTC. Samantha, the
>Body
>Reg, used to be the ED (Philly Org tend to go through EDs rather quickly)
How long were you involved? I thought you said six months but I assume by the
information here that it was longer.
>until
>about a week before I left, when she was named Body Reg, and Bonnie, the
>former
>PES, promoted to ED. The CLO said Samantha had not
CLO?
>established an HCO or
>complied with mgmt programs to bring the Org to St. Hill Size. Also, we had
>been leading in the Birthday Game until the Reg blew and we went *way*
>downstat--so we really needed a Reg.
>
>Two interesting points: Philly Org has more OSA than any other admin
>personnel,
I figure it must be bringing them in more money than expected. I really want to
know where the OSA live? Do they all live in one apartment; are they paid well
eneough to live on their own?
>and for some reason, the ASHO Reg EUS decided to set up his office there.
>
>Charlotte Kates
>
></PRE></HTML>
.
.
__
In Xenu We Trust.....
A does equal A, does equal A, does equal A. What was Hubbie trying to
say?.....
." Life is a cartoon." Howard Stern while referring to Lisa Marie Presley's
involvement with Co$.
Starshadow
In article <35775779...@news2.teleport.com>, gunbu...@yahoo.com
says...
> On 31 May 1998 22:58:24 -0700, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
> > Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>
> for yourself? If someone ever f**king hit me they would not be
> standing around to talk about it, period. It's time you stood up
> and be a man, stop blaming Scientology for your short-comings.
>
>
> Keith
> -------------------------------
>
Keith, why don't you fuck off and die. (Not to be construed as a Real
Threat, of course, for the brain cell challenged among the clam
apologists like yourself.) Most of us here have a better respect for
Warrior than we do for you and your ravings any day.
It's time you learned to look in the mirror and really see what you've
become. But I doubt you'll do it, you are morally bankrupt, and from
where I stand pretty damn despicable.
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow SP4, Granny Dyke
CLKates
LRonsScam wrote:
>I am just looking for some acronym answers here. There are many parts of this
>I
>don't understand and if someone would post what these acronym's represent
>would
>be helpful.
>
>>EXEC ESTO-Mary Anne Fast
>
>ESTO?
>
Establishment Officer
>>Dept 20-OSA
>>-------------------
>>DSA- Tim Lomas
>>DSA ESTO-John Hanlon
>>DSA PRO- Bruce Thompson
>
>DSA......ESTO......PRO....?
>
Director of Special Affairs, DSA Establishment Officer, DSA Public Relations
Officer...
>
>PES?
Public Exec Sec..
>
>>-----------------
>>BODY REG-Samantha Valarik
>>-also ASHO REG EUS
>
>American saint hill organizaion.....REG....EUS?
>
American Saint Hill Org Registrar Eastern United States
> Office-Ensign Ken Shapiro
>>-----------------------
>>KTL/LOC SUP-Sandy Lattimore
>
>
>KTL/LOC Supervisor
>
Key To Life/Life Orientation Course Supervisor..
>
>>SENIOR C/S-Kim Loss
>
>
>There is a Miles Loss who has a spam page out.
>
That is Kim's husband.
>
>Did the parents disconnect from him?
>
I'm not sure..I don't believe they had as of the time I left.
>>The PES and Paul from the TTC
>
>TTC?
>
Technical Training Corps..
>
>How long were you involved? I thought you said six months but I assume by
>the
>information here that it was longer.
>
No, I was in about six months (maybe a little less) but
I was at the org all the time..
>
>CLO?
>
Continental Liaison Office/Eastern United States, on 48th St. in New York.
>
>I figure it must be bringing them in more money than expected. I really want
>to
>know where the OSA live? Do they all live in one apartment; are they paid
>well
>eneough to live on their own?
They live in three apartments. The Director of Special Affairs is has a day
job--he is the Public Relations director for Philadelphia Cares, a local
charity organization. The DSA Esto lives at home and may have anoither job as
well but I'm not sure what, and the PRO is also a flight attendant. So their
wog jobs basically get them their apartments. The DSA, however, shared his with
the Purif I/C and the Course Admin..
Charlotte Kates
CLKates
>are
>>*lots* of unfilled posts--even ones like HAS, Tech Sec, etc. There were few
>>staff at the Org, and I will only list filled posts. All others are held
>from
>>above:
>>
>>Dept 6-Registration
>>-----------------
>>BODY REG-Samantha Valarik
>>-also ASHO REG EUS Office-Ensign Ken Shapiro
>>-----------------------
>
> Thank you, Charlotte.
>
> This is so funny to me! When I first met Kenny Shapiro 23 years ago
>he was a Reg at ASHO. My guess is that he was sent to the Philly Org
>on a Garrison Mission to get the stats up, get Dept 6 established, get
>a Body Reg stably on post there *and* to reg for ASHO, of course. If Kenny
>is not on a Garrison Mission, then most likely he is a Remote Reg.
>
Di Martino (who left in a month or so) became the Body Reg; there hadn't been
one since I'd been in. So he also served the purpose of such a mission.
>Tell me if Kenny is married and whether he still takes time to be with his
>child
>by Trina, will you?
>
> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
I'm sorry to hear that. As to your first questions, I don't know Ken really
well. I know I've never seen him with a wife or child, and the only ring I've
seen on his finger is his 25-years-in-the-SO ring (Ken's been in for 27 years).
Charlotte
>
>Warrior
>
>------------------
>Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
></PRE></HTML>
Ron Newman
In article <199806011514...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
clk...@aol.com (CLKates) wrote:
> >>Dept 20-OSA
> >>-------------------
> >>DSA- Tim Lomas
> They live in three apartments. The Director of Special Affairs is has a day
> job--he is the Public Relations director for Philadelphia Cares, a local
> charity organization.
Oh dear. Does "Philadelphia Cares" know about this? There's a lot of
potential for conflict of interest here, not to mention potential for undue
influence by Scientology inside "Philadelphia Cares".
Does the Philadelphia Inquirer know about this?
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Inducto
From: gunbu...@yahoo.com (Keith):
>If someone ever f**king hit me they would not be
>standing around to talk about it, period. It's time you stood up
>and be a man, stop blaming Scientology for your short-comings.
Wow, a really fascist/bully school of thought response: if you "let" someone
assault you, and don't get even, it's your fault.
What would Keith do if that person happened to greatly exceed him in size and
strength, attack them with a weapon?
Yecch! I used to grudgingly admire Gunbunny for providing something of a
different perspective, but the deeper he gets into the CoS frame of mind, the
uglier it gets.
I.
SIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIG
Induct YourSELF into new realities
Avoid highwaymen on the road to personal and spiritual betterment -- beware
dead ends and unlit paths
Alan Furman
> On 31 May 1998 22:58:24 -0700, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
> > Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>
> No one gives a f**k Warrior-not. What you can't stand up and be a man
> for yourself? If someone ever f**king hit me they would not be
> standing around to talk about it, period. It's time you stood up
> and be a man, stop blaming Scientology for your short-comings.
>
>
> Keith
Now let me get this straight: Verbal criticism of $cientology is
equivalent to Nazi stormtroopers beating up Jews during Kristallnacht,
but when a $cientologist commits a physical assault, the person
assaulted is supposed to "stand up and be a man."
This is your brain on $cientology. Any questions?
--
====al...@aimnet.com * LPC * LPUSA * ISIL * IOS * KoX * Netscab Squealer====
LEGALIZE FREEDOM >>>> http://www.lp.org * UBI LIBERTAS IBI PATRIA
When you say "Bill Clinton," you've said a mouthful.
Warrior
>Warrior wrote:
>>
>>Tell me if Kenny is married and whether he still takes time to be with his
>>
>>Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
In article <199806011519...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, clk...@aol.com
wrote:
>
>I'm sorry to hear that. As to your first questions, I don't know Ken really
>well. I know I've never seen him with a wife or child, and the only ring I've
>seen on his finger is his 25-years-in-the-SO ring (Ken's been in for 27 years).
>
>Charlotte
Yes. Kenny has been in the Sea Org since 1971. Over the years he has
mainly held various Registrar posts. He was briefly Commanding Officer
ASHO Day back in the early 80s. He has held the post of Public Exec Sec
ASHO Day, Tours Registrar, and Chief Registrar for ASHO Day.
He is divorced from his (at least 3rd) wife Trina since several years
ago. Presumably she has custody of their two children (both girls). Trina
has remarried a professional diver (Jon something-or-other) and now lives
in the Seattle or Portland area. Anyone with a copy of AOLA's "Advance Mag"
from about two years ago could read an interview of Trina's husband, Jon,
the diver.
Trina had been the DGF WW (Herbie Parkhouse's) Communicator. When the
GO was taken over in the early 80's, Trina came to the US from WW. Her
name was Trina Green at that time. She was posted in the TTC at ASHO in
1982 I believe. That's about the time she started a relationship with
Kenny. Kenny had previously been married to ASHO Day Sea Org member Diane
Stackpoole and another ASHO Day Sea Org lady named Sissy Brown (previously
from Saint Louis). I believe Sissy had been ED of the Saint Louis Org. She
became a Recruiter for ASHO Day. She also did a stint as a Tours Reg.
A couple of years ago, Kenny was put on the RPF, along with a host of
others, as part of "The Last Evolution". This was Kenny's second time to
be assigned to the RPF.
While I was in the Sea Org, I probably wrote more "knowledge reports"
and "job endangerment chits" on Kenny than I did on any other single staff
member. He was continually committing crimes on finance "lines". He gave
many "illegal discounts" on training and auditing in violation of HCO PL
27 September 1970 "Cutative Prices", HCO PL 23 September 1964 "Cost of
Service" and HCO PL 27 April 1965 Issue II "Price Engram".
One particular illegal discount I recall was a "training package" he
sold to Steve Surrey, back when Steve was the Salt Lake City Mission
holder. This was reported at that time, by other staff members.
Of course, Kenny always got away with policy violations because he
was a registrar, and he was "upstat". (Scientology management tends to
look the other way when it comes to violations of finance policy in the
form of illegal discounts because the sacred "GI" is all-important in
Scienoland.) Realizing this while I was staff, I tried writing Cramming
Orders to get Kenny to correctly apply policy. When he refused to be
corrected, I wrote "job endangerment chits" on him.
Another area of chronic difficulty I had from Kenny was due to his
continual and repeated overspending on long distance telephone calls
in excess of his "allocation" from "FP" (financial planning).
As his overspending was chronic and repeated, I decided to withhold
$5.00 from his pay, in accordance with HCO PL 2 June 1959 "Purchasing
Liability of Staff Members", to go towards repaying the unauthorized
expenditure.
The assault incident occurred around 1981 in connection with this
incident. Kenny had sent a subordinate to my office on Friday night
to pick up his pay. Upon finding out that his pay had been docked $5.00
he flew into a rage; I heard him yell my name from down the hall a few
doors away. Next, he stormed into my office yelling, "I'm gonna *kill*
you!", while shoving me backwards with both arms against my chest. The
force sent me over backwards into my desk, injuring my back badly. I
wrote this incident up, but the "Ethics Officer" did nothing about it.
Kenny's behavior is one of the many reasons I decided to leave the
Sea Org. He was an "OT3" at the time. I realized that being "OT"
gave many Scientologists license (in their minds) to commit criminal
acts. And Scientology management condoned it through its lack of action
in the form of *failing* to do anything.
So take a "win", Scientology. I chose not to be a part of your
criminal organization. Now you have "pulled me in" as a vocal critic.
Some liars have posted to this newsgroup that I have "refused any
handling" which could have corrected any injustices I observed. This
is a blatant lie.
Actually, it is quite the opposite. It is Scientology which has
refused to do anything to take responsibility for its criminal actions
on the part of its members.
Scientology: you know these words to be true. For proof, look in
Kenny Shapiro's and my ethics files.
You will also find many, many "knowledge reports", "crime reports",
"job endangerment chits", etc. from other staff members, written on Kenny
by other individuals.
I am talking about other ex-Sea Org members like Director of Income,
John Bostrum; Director of Income, Jeannette Vigue Douglass; and Cashier,
David Pyatt. Like me, they also chose to leave your criminal cult.
More later...
Warrior
See http://www.entheta.net/entheta/1stpersn/warrior/
Warrior
>>
>>
In article <6ktk4f$3...@edrn.newsguy.com>, Arnie says...
>
> Well I'd like to have chat with him.
I wonder whether Kenny is "clear" enough to recall his crime 17
years ago and whether he would admit his assault.
> I was FBO at Pubs US when he was a reg at ASHO 2723 W Temple St across
> from Rampart PD
This is true, Arnie.
Warrior
In article <35775779...@news2.teleport.com>, gunbu...@yahoo.com says...
>
>On 31 May 1998 22:58:24 -0700, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
>
>for yourself? If someone ever f**king hit me they would not be
>standing around to talk about it, period. It's time you stood up
>and be a man, stop blaming Scientology for your short-comings.
>
>
>Keith
Sorry, Keith. I am not a man of violence. My Christian upbringing
taught me to be a pacifist. I am a fighter of ideas and words only.
I don't blame Scientology for my shortcomings.
I had previously posted about how I observed many Scientologists
become more criminal *after* "going Clear" or "OT". Kenny is one of
those. My story is posted in order to give specifics. I don't speak
in generalities. I give names, dates and places. I note that members
and defenders of the cult of Scientology attack me by calling me names.
You are free to mischaracterize my intent and person.
As I said earlier, name-calling does not push my buttons.
Scientology promises people that they will become more ethical,
more able, gain increased ability to communicate, etc. Why then
do many "OTs" engage in criminal acts *after* becoming "OT"?
Hubbard asked that Scientologists, as "Clears" and "OTs", set a
good example. I note that I was not committing any crime when
Kenny assaulted me. I was doing my job as requested of me by L Ron
Hubbard.
It is my personal observation that individuals involved in
Scientology for many years become *more* criminal. Their actions
are often anything BUT "pan-determined". Hubbard's monster creations,
Scientology, particularly the SO, GO and OSA, are cancers in society.
His fascist, totalitarian creations absolutely corrupt good-intentioned
people into brainwashed zealots willing to do almost anything "in
the name of Scientology" and "for the greatest good for the greatest
number of dynamics".
The belief that governments are "insane" and/or "suppressive",
that "psychs" are evil "SPs", that critics are "SPs", etc. gives
Scientologists justification in their minds to commit all manner of
crimes. Coupled with Scientologists' beliefs that their group has
"the only hope for all of mankind", and Scientologists' beliefs
that their actions are the "greatest good for the greatest number
of dynamics", almost any action against an "enemy" is justified.
This is wrong. I do not wish to be any part of it.
What Scientology and Scientologists would do well to think about
is that the "3rd dynamic" (group) of Scientology is a subset of a
larger group (what Scienos call the 4th dynamic, or mankind). As such,
Scientology is subject to the laws of the land. It is Scientology
that must "operate" within society and lear to obey the law.
I left Scientology because I realized Scientology management was
criminal, and the organization is incapable of reform on its own
initiative. I left Scientology because I realized Scientology
philosophy and teachings encourage individuals to become mindless,
indoctrinated zombies willing to break the laws of the land for the
"good of Scientology".
I won't be a part of a criminal group. It's that simple. When I
honestly did my "doubt formula", I realized that my purposes in life
do not align with those of Scientology. The only reason I was in the
Sea Org for so long, is that the *true* activities of Scientology are
hidden from the membership. Scientology pays lots of *lip service* to
lofty and noble goals. In actual practice, reality is much different.
I had been very patient, tolerant and understanding of wrongs during
my time in Scientology. I am a very forgiving person. But after 8 years
as a Sea Org member, seeing betrayal and lies over and over, I realized
I had been duped.
Scientology proved itself to be not worthy of my allegiance.
Warrior
In article <MPG.fdc6c632...@nntp.lightlink.com>,
stars...@mindless.com says...
>
> Keith, why don't you fuck off and die. (Not to be construed as a Real
>Threat, of course, for the brain cell challenged among the clam
>apologists like yourself.) Most of us here have a better respect for
>Warrior than we do for you and your ravings any day.
Thanks, Starshadow. Email I receive a very supportive too.
Have you all noticed that Scientology and Scientologists almost
never attempt to refute my postings? Almost all responses are
attacks in the form of name-calling and/or mischaracterizations
of my intents for posting my stories.
> It's time you learned to look in the mirror and really see what you've
>become. But I doubt you'll do it, you are morally bankrupt, and from
>where I stand pretty damn despicable.
Scientlogists do the best job in demonstrating how utterly incapable
they are when it comes to admitting wrongs and/or apologizing.
Make no mistake about this: Scientologists engage in black PR in
the form of character assassination, name-calling, the allegation of
falsehoods, innuendo, half-truths, etc. intentionally and in accordance
with policies written by L Ron Hubbard.
These methods are used in an attempt to cast disrepute on critics,
particularly ex-Scientologists. There are many examples of this.
And Scientology continues to wonder why they have a PR problem!
Critics can be right, too, Keith.
Rob Clark
On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 07:30:07 GMT, gunbu...@yahoo.com (Keith) wrote:
>On 31 May 1998 22:58:24 -0700, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>No one gives a f**k Warrior-not. What you can't stand up and be a man
>for yourself? If someone ever f**king hit me they would not be
>standing around to talk about it, period. It's time you stood up
>and be a man, stop blaming Scientology for your short-comings.
this is the typical "logic" of a criminal sociopath. not surprising for a
no-balls lying OSA bootlicker.
rob
Warrior
In article <35743378...@news2.teleport.com>, gunbu...@yahoo.com
Keith Wyatt wrote:
>
>You contradict yourself, dude! You say that Scientology turns
>people into criminals, yet somehow you were able to follow
>your own beliefs in Christian Ethics and not defend yourself.
You make no sense to me. Where's the contradiction?
>Despite being subjected to 8 years of "brainwashing".
This makes no sense. It is an incomplete sentence. Please re-phrase
your sentence to make sense. Then perhaps I can understand what you
are attempting to say or ask.
>You can't have it both ways warrior by saying Scientology brainwashes
>people and then stating that you were the ethical one and left Scientology.
Your argument makes no sense. People wise up to Scientology's
con game all the time. Then they leave.
Fortunately I was able to de-program myself, although it took me
a long time to recover from Hubbard's mind virus which had infected me.
>Either brainwashing exist and all Scientologist [sic] are "programmed"
>or Scientologist [sic] are individuals like everyone else, in that case
>you have the good, the bad and the ugly just like in every group.
Scientology does brainwash people. Hubbard just redefined the
term because he knew "brainwashing" has bad connotations and is
also subject to misinterpretation due to the fact that many
different techniques are used to brainwash people.
Hubbard chose to use the term "indoctrination" instead. He was also
a master at redefinition of words and playing on the weaknesses of
individuals. In addition, there exists "false data stripping", "TRs",
"cramming", "disagreement checks", "retreads", "retrains" and other
tools to bring about Hubbard's way of thinking into unsuspecting
marks.
>If what you say about Scientology is true then it is no different
>then [sic] any other religious group.
You are sadly mistaken. Even Scienos would find your statement
irrational.
>Jesus was a convicted criminal and was accused of breaking Roman
>and Jewish laws on numerous occasions. So you set aside your Scientology
>beliefs to follow a convicted criminal?
When I chose to not retaliate with violence, if *that* makes me
guilty of following a "convicted criminal", then I am proud to have
followed and to have served my Lord and Savior.
The difference, Keith, is that I am free do believe as I wish.
And my beliefs do not dictate that I should *act* with violence.
>It is all in how you look at it, Warrior.
There are degrees of brainwashing. I was never so indoctrinated into
Hubbard's madness that I felt it necessary to punch someone out simply
because he disagreed with me.
Another point of my posting about Kenny Shapiro's violence was this:
If Scientology supposedly makes a person more ethical, able, sane,
kind, rational, etc., then what does it say about an "OT" who solves
a disagreement by resorting to violence, against a fellow member, no
less?
Pimoty
Gunbunny: It's time you stood up and be a man, stop blaming Scientology for
your short-comings.>>
Violence is never the solution dear Keith.
+++
For additional info:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.entheta.net
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/yanny.html
Pimoty
Gunbunny: Either brainwashing exist and all
Scientologist are "programmed" or Scientologist are individuals like everyone
else, in that case you have the good, the bad and the ugly just like in every
group. >>
Gunbunny is confused about logics, yes brainwashing can exist and no this does
not mean that ALL scientologists are "programmed".
Poor logic dear Keith.
LRonsScam
>From: Warrior <war...@entheta.net>
>Date: Mon, Jun 1, 1998 18:09 EDT
>Message-id: <6kv8rf$l...@drn.newsguy.com>
CRITICS HAVE RIGHTS TOO.
I do hereby declare that this is the new ARSCC slogan.
Warrior your posts on the internet were the first that I had read. On AOL when
you HTML to newsgroups from AOL Netfind you only come across postings by dates.
I read all of your posts and found them utterly interesting. I can't believe
that anyone could be so creative as to lie about so many people and places. So
whoever said that there is a status in wasting your life? I bet it was a
scientologist.
>
>Warrior
>See http://www.entheta.net/entheta/1stpersn/warrior/
LRonsScam
>From: gunbu...@yahoo.com (Keith)
>Date: Mon, Jun 1, 1998 23:45 EDT
>Message-id: <35747542...@news2.teleport.com>
>
>On 02 Jun 1998 03:01:45 GMT, pim...@aol.com (Pimoty) wrote:
>
>>Gunbunny is confused about logics, yes brainwashing can exist
>
>
>Keith
>-------------------------------
></PR
When a person believes that their leader has done so many great and fantastic
things and he hasn't. When they believe that they have supernatural powerzzzzz,
and they can't prove a lick of it. When they are promised that they wil have
complete memeory recall, and not one can exhibit the incredible feat of the
mind. When blah, blah, blah.(The RPF, The # of members).............These
people are brainwashed!!! Not all of them are so duped because many like
yourself know that these facts aren't so. You justify it through your thinking
that LRH did some good but had some flaws, and to those people who see that I
see them as not too bright but not necessarily brainwashed. Scientology is too
ingrained in them by the time they find out. They make excuses for their own
and scientology's inadequacies.
Brainwashed may not be the best word. Perhaps duped might be better. Funny
thing because I read a piece on Hubbie once and he said that the only way he
could brainwash his members was if he didn't tell them everything. He obviosly
did not. (This is only from memory. This is another quote of Hubbie's I am
looking for.)
Tommy_sp...@xs.net
Warrior wrote:
>
><snip fascinating account of org life>
Thanks, Warrior - this is the kind of post that I am interested in
- daily ops and $cn policies (ideal and real). These reports have the
ring of sad truth and illustrate what really goes on inside an org. No
one is flogging his underlings (literally,anyway), and no infant
sacrifice - just petty, stats-driven fallible people set to do an
impossible task.
Tommy
--
"The fact that Scientology or it's members may have done something
illegal
has no bearing on the Keith Henson case."
"I don't make the mistake of mixing my beliefs with reality.."
Keith (Gunbunny) posted to a.r.s.
Tommy_sp...@xs.net
Keith wrote:
>
> Oh I'm sorry I challenged the postings of "Warrior-The Christian Pacifist".
Doubtful.
> You are making the mistake that somehow my opinions on ARS is really the moral
> issue in my life.
"your" opinions? When $cn wants your opinions, it'll give them to
you.
> Debating viewpoints on a newsgroup is just a small part of
> my life.
I dodn't see *any* debate, only a mindless lashing out at someone
who left $cn and dares to speak out about it. Well, I'll give you one
more chance: exactly what would you have done in Warrior's position?
Gotten into a fistfight with the asshole who shoved you into the desk?
Killed him? And *then* what? Would $cientology have sent their crack
team (smirk) of lawyers to defend you?
Inducto
>>Gunbunny is confused about logics, yes brainwashing can exist
>
>Prove it.
>
>Keith
To begin with, I think Warrior _did_ make an error of commission by not
qualifying his statement about brainwashing to make it clear how he thinks he
was able to overcome it, leaving the implication that everyone in CoS is
completely brainwashed.
As to the existence of brainwashing, L. Ron Hubbard himself,"Source", said it
is real:
"4. We now know more about psychiatry than psychiatrists. We can brainwash
faster than the Russians (20 secs to total amnesia against three years to
slightly confused loyalty."
-- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Technical Bulletin of 22
July 1956
To be fair and put this in context, what Hubbard is saying here is that he
_learned_ how to brainwash effectively, though he always claimed that dn/scn do
not actually practice brainwashing or hypnosis; but like many things he wisely
decried in the early days, he and CoS appear to have fallen into doing exactly
that.
I'm aware of the whole "brainwashing" debate, and am actually uncomfortable
with such an over-used and overly-general term and agree that a lot needs to be
refined and better proven. Nonetheless, it's a widely known term, and gets at
the point that a manipulative and coercive environment can be created over a
prolonged period where for instance individuals will say and do and perhaps
even believe things that they couldn't have conceived of previously, and will
frequently later reject entirely as having been out of character.
Pimoty
>Gunbunny is confused about logics, yes brainwashing can exist
Gunbunny: Prove it.
You stripped the rest of my argument. I was showing that your argument was
based on a logical fallacay dear Keith. Your attempt to distract only
strengthens that conclusion.
You said: Either brainwashing exist and all Scientologist are "programmed" or
Scientologist are individuals like everyone
else, in that case you have the good, the bad and the ugly just like in every
group.
T which I responded: Gunbunny is confused about logics, yes brainwashing can
exist and no this does not mean that ALL scientologists are "programmed".
Btw for more info read "Brain washing manual". Hubbard himself was convinced
that it worked.
ROTFL
Inducto
From: lron...@aol.com (LRonsScam):
>Funny
>thing because I read a piece on Hubbie once and he said that the only way he
>could brainwash his members was if he didn't tell them everything. He
>obviosly
>did not. (This is only from memory. This is another quote of Hubbie's I am
>looking for.)
I think you may be confusing the subject with the infamous "the only way to
control people is to lie to them" quote.
But here are a few more where Hubbard talks about brainwashing under the clear
implication that he believes it exists:
"... in Dianetics in particular, we have the total antidote for the
eradication of brainwashing."
-- HCOB No. 19 Dec. '55 "The turn of the Tide"
"We had long standing and insistent offer to government to be permitted to
check out all repatriates from Russia and China. Only Scientologists can
detect brainwashing.....Our offer of 1962 to help administration with
Scientology was only one of
many such offers which included in 1955 strenuous offers of help to be
permitted to handle all Russian and Korean repatriates for brainwashing and
sub-conscious hypnotic suggestions such as Oswald was undoubtedly given."
-- "Ron's Instructions", November 1963
As posted here on a.r.s. , in the "L" rundowns (the "Flag OT Executive
Rundown", to be priced at $1000 per hour) Issue VII of 31 Jul 84, step 6
"Identity Assessment List" instucts the auditor to loudly call or shout out
"accusatorially" various identities to see what registers on the e-meter;
amongst them are "brainwasher".
"'Brainwashing' would be nothing compared to it. The proper term would be
soul-cracking."
-- Interview, L. Ron Hubbard Jr., in allegations made about the practices he
engaged in with his father in the decade they worked together establishing
scientology.
And don't forget that while CoS has never admitted that Hubbard wrote the
so-called "brainwashing" manual, they did publish editions of it as an example
of what they believed the communists were up to.
I.
All quotes used for "Fair Use" purposes of exposition, commentary and criticism
LRonsScam
>From: ind...@aol.com (Inducto)
>Date: Tue, Jun 2, 1998 12:01 EDT
>Message-id: <199806021601...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
>From: lron...@aol.com (LRonsScam):
>>Funny
>>thing because I read a piece on Hubbie once and he said that the only way he
>>could brainwash his members was if he didn't tell them everything. He
>>obviosly
>>did not. (This is only from memory. This is another quote of Hubbie's I am
>>looking for.)
>
>I think you may be confusing the subject with the infamous "the only way to
>control people is to lie to them" quote.
No, I distincly remember reading it from a book while in the book store. It may
have been the research and discoveries series, I am not sure. Hubbard was
talking to a psychologist ( so he was saying) and the psychologist was looking
at all the data and statisitcs on Hubbard's tech in increasing the IQ. Hubbard
ends the conversation replying to the psychologists amazement of why he kept
these things secret and Hubbie exclaims in his always winning ways, " these are
not kept secret, they are in the open for all to see".....( paraphrase). He
was talking earlier to the psychologist about the brainwashing stuff and the
only way he was able to brainwash Scientologists was to lie to them. I went
over it many times over the years, so this is still fresh in my mind.
>
>But here are a few more where Hubbard talks about brainwashing under the
>clear
>implication that he believes it exists:
>
>
<snip>
Martin Hunt
In article <199806011336...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
lron...@aol.com (LRonsScam) wrote:
>I am just looking for some acronym answers here. There are many parts of this I
>don't understand and if someone would post what these acronym's represent would
>be helpful.
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/terms.htm
HTH. If you find TLAs in the post that aren't in the FAQ, please
let me know. I think most, if not all, are covered.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"It's wonderful to be out!! 2 PM Thursday is now just another hour
on the clock..." - One (Ex-)Scio.
rod_fl...@hotmail.com
In article <MPG.fdc6c632...@nntp.lightlink.com>,
stars...@mindless.com (Starshadow) wrote:
<snip>
> It's time you learned to look in the mirror and really see what you've
> become. But I doubt you'll do it, you are morally bankrupt, and from
> where I stand pretty damn despicable.
>
> --
> Bright Blessings,
>
> Starshadow SP4, Granny Dyke
>
I suggest that you do the same since you are not exempted
from it. If you don't like it, then don't read the
postings. Rod.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
rod_fl...@hotmail.com
In article <6ktfu0$o...@drn.newsguy.com>,
Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
<snip>
> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>
> Warrior
>
> ------------------
> Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
>
I am wondering if this has something to do with your
embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
Just Wog
On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:25:48 GMT, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>In article <6ktfu0$o...@drn.newsguy.com>,
> Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>>
>> Warrior
ATTENTION NEWBIES: Now please read the beginnings of a DA [Dead Agent] or Fair
Game attack on a critic - ex-scientologist. Rod, you are a nuisance in this
news group. You attack Warrior and earlier Charlotte. Either file with the
police or FOAD.
> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
-Bob, just Wog-
-Captain Miscaviage of RTC is wondering...
"Does Eugene Ingram & David Lee know where you & your children are?"
Warrior
>>In article <6ktfu0$o...@drn.newsguy.com>, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
Scientology really doesn't like me to post about crimes of
violence, especially ones involving Sea Org officers (in this case
Ensign Ken Shapiro, an "OT" and 27-year veteran of the Sea Org).
In article <35749c3a...@nntptransit.lsan03.pbi.net>, B...@Not.Here.com
says...
>
>ATTENTION NEWBIES: Now please read the beginnings of a DA [Dead Agent] or Fair
>Game attack on a critic - ex-scientologist. Rod, you are a nuisance in this
>news group. You attack Warrior and earlier Charlotte. Either file with the
>police or FOAD.
> -Bob, just Wog-
Scientology knows they have no basis on which to file a crime report.
So all they can do is engage in "wondering". LOL
>On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:25:48 GMT, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
I don't owe Scientology any money, and you know it. Perhaps you should
change your name to "The Devil".
Warrior
See http://www.entheta.net/entheta/1stpersn/warrior/
Warrior
In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com says...
>
>In article <6ktfu0$o...@drn.newsguy.com>,
> Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
>> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>>
> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
Kenny assaulted me because he was incapable of taking rational action,
which, in Scientology would have consisted of an "Orders, Query Of" or
perhaps a "Chaplain's Court".
Instead, Kenny chose to demonstrate how Scientologists can be violent
criminals. I was following LRH policy when I deducted $5.00 from his pay
to go towards his illegal expenditure. The extant policy letter at that
time was HCO PL "Purchasing Liability of Staff" by L Ron Hubbard.
Kenny obviously did not care to set a good example as an "OT",
Scientologist, Sea Org member and member of "Officer's Council". By
his actions he demonstrated his inability to act in a sane and rational
manner.
If "OTs" are so ethical and able, why did Kenny (an "OT3X") have to
resort to violence to settle his upset?
I do not owe Scientology any money due to "embezzlement" or any other
imagined crime, "Rod".
WONDERFULR
>Subject: Re: Philly Org Org Board
>From: Warrior <war...@entheta.net>
>Date: Wed, Jun 3, 1998 03:48 EDT
>Message-id: <6l2v54$4...@drn.newsguy.com>
>
>In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com
>says...
>>
>>In article <6ktfu0$o...@drn.newsguy.com>,
>> Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>>>
>>> Warrior
>
>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>
> Kenny assaulted me because he was incapable of taking rational action,
>which, in Scientology would have consisted of an "Orders, Query Of" or
>perhaps a "Chaplain's Court".
>
> Instead, Kenny chose to demonstrate how Scientologists can be violent
>criminals. I was following LRH policy when I deducted $5.00 from his pay
>to go towards his illegal expenditure. The extant policy letter at that
>time was HCO PL "Purchasing Liability of Staff" by L Ron Hubbard.
>
> Kenny obviously did not care to set a good example as an "OT",
>Scientologist, Sea Org member and member of "Officer's Council". By
>his actions he demonstrated his inability to act in a sane and rational
>manner.
>
> If "OTs" are so ethical and able, why did Kenny (an "OT3X") have to
>resort to violence to settle his upset?
He knew you better than anyone else did?
Warrior
In article <199806030936...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, wonde...@aol.com
says...
According to Hubbard, "know best" is defined as "a person who considers
he has a better way of accomplishing something than is contained in the
policy letters covering that subject and messes things up. Management then
finds itself left with the task of correcting that person's goofs... In
English, it is a derogatory term meaning the person is pretending to know
while actually being stupid." (ref: _Modern Management Technology Defined_,
aka _The Admin Dictionary_ by L Ron Hubbard, first printing 1976, page
298).
This sure sounds like the Kenny Shapiro I knew. He was known for repeated
disregard and flagrant violations of policy. Perhaps that's why he has been
assigned to the RPF at least twice.
Ron Newman
> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Ralph Hilton
On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:32:00 -0400, rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>
>Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>
>I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
And sink to their level of pettiness?
Just an anonymous clown who continues to show that the product of the technology
as applied by the CofS is people who are too scared to say who they are and who
blame their anonymity on OTSPs who might enturbulate them.
--
Ralph Hilton
http://Ralph.Hilton.org
Tilman Hausherr
In <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
We never will. He doesn't exist.
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
bc
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:25:48 GMT, rod_fl...@hotmail.com brewed up
the following, and served it to the group:
>In article <6ktfu0$o...@drn.newsguy.com>,
> Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Kenny physically assaulted me when I was in the Sea Org.
>>
>> Warrior
>>
>> ------------------
>> Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
>>
>
> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> can call yourself a warrior now, **** *******, but you
> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
<outing attempt edited>
"If I can't FIND a reindeer,
I'll *make* one instead." --The Grinch
--from "How The Grinch Stole Christmas" by Dr. Seuss
Rod, your non-confront is absolutely astonishing. What about
Warrior's statement? Can't handle it? FLUNK for non-confront!
Why not do the entire world a favor, and FOAD with all possible
haste?
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--------
"...she hates her life and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that'll never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool"
--Neil Young
the above e-mail address remains fictional.
the real one is bc9424@spamTHIS!.concentric.net (if you remove spamTHIS!.)
*SP2(:)* KoX
...bc...
Martin Hunt
In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>
>Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
I agree. "Rod", how did you come upon Warrior's alleged name,
and how do any of us know that you are correct, you OSA creep?
--
Cogito, ergo sum. http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"It's wonderful to be out!! 2 PM Thursday is now just another hour
on the clock..." - One (Ex-)Scio.
.
.
.
.
.
.
ErinAn...@rocketmail.com
In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
rne...@thecia.net says...
>
>In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>
>Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>
>I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
Woah. Now, let me get this straight, Ron. Rod names a person
who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
more important that Rod posted his name.
Are the rest of your morals that convoluted?
I think you should put down your keyboard
and go for a walk on the beach for a few weeks.
Get your priorities in life straightened around.
This virtual reality has done a job on your idea
of right and wrong. Phew.
Erin
>
>--
>Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
>http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
------------------
Archangel
ErinAn...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rne...@thecia.net says...
> >
> >In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> >> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> >> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> >> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
> >
> >Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
> >
> >I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
> Woah. Now, let me get this straight, Ron. Rod names a person
> who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
> more important that Rod posted his name.
Yep. Because "Rod Fletcher" may have gunned down eight nuns in
Guatemala. And you may be torching retirement homes as part of an
insurance scam. Now let's have both of your names, please.
> Are the rest of your morals that convoluted?
Are yours? Do you really believe that "Rod.'s" accusation has any more
merit than the ones I made?
> I think you should put down your keyboard
> and go for a walk on the beach for a few weeks.
> Get your priorities in life straightened around.
> This virtual reality has done a job on your idea
> of right and wrong. Phew.
Physician, heal thyself.
Archangel
SP 2
ErinAn...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rne...@thecia.net says...
> >
> >In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> >> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> >> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> >> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
> >
> >Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
> >
> >I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
> Woah. Now, let me get this straight, Ron. Rod names a person
> who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
> more important that Rod posted his name.
>
> Erin
>
>
Erin,
Two things:
1) Rod stated, as fact, that the embezzlement took place. You said "may" have
taken place. Very big difference. Which is it?
2) Ron isn't addressing the allegeded embezzlement; rather, he is addressing the
poor Co$ practice of exposing someone who wished to remain anonymous.
--
"Commodore" SP 2, and moving!!!
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> writes
>In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>
>Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
So he's called Mark Plummer, is he. Now let me think of all
the ways this makes a difference to the content of what
he writes................ ............. .................
......... ...................... ..............
................ ......... No, can't think of any.
I'm not entirely sure he was anonymous, anyway, for he did
nothing to hide his identity i.e. identifying details which
made quite clear who he was; just withheld his anme.
>
>I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
(1) It's best spelled Feltcher
(2) It isn't a person, it's the village bike that anyone can ride
--
<__"-$ <__" <__" <__"
:_ : : :_
''''''''._____'-_....'"...-------''''''_ <__'
'. $CIENTOLOGY: ..''--- :.
; _ . . . - '''
. . ' ': ': ':
: .' the bridge to .~~>~~>:~~>:
:.' total madness ~~> ~~>
'
Michael T. Richter
ErinAn...@rocketmail.com wrote in message <6l49lb$g...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>> Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>> I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
> Woah. Now, let me get this straight, Ron. Rod names a person
> who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
> more important that Rod posted his name.
"May have" is the important bit here. I note with interest that there's no
report of Warrior getting charged with this embezzlement. Given your cult's
litigous nature, that very probably means the "may have" is Yet Another Dead
Agent (YADA) attack.
For example, you may have murdered Lisa McPherson. By your logic, we should
be outing you as well.
> Are the rest of your morals that convoluted?
And right back at ya.
--
Michael T. Richter
m...@ottawa.com
http://www.igs.net/~mtr
P.S. Attention ARSCC(wdne): I think YADA should be an official piece of
ARSCC jargon.
Ralph Hilton
On 3 Jun 1998 12:54:19 -0700, ErinAn...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>rne...@thecia.net says...
>>
>>In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>>
>>Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>>
>>I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
>
>Woah. Now, let me get this straight, Ron. Rod names a person
>who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
>more important that Rod posted his name.
You are a stupid scared cunt who doesn't have the OT powers to even give your
real name. You stinking little shits hide behind anon accounts.
Do you really have to wonder why so little regard is paid to your pathetic
bleatings.
Put up your phone number so someone knows you are real.
>Are the rest of your morals that convoluted?
Less than yours.
>I think you should put down your keyboard
>and go for a walk on the beach for a few weeks.
>Get your priorities in life straightened around.
>This virtual reality has done a job on your idea
>of right and wrong. Phew.
>
>Erin
>
Whats your real name?
The power of a thetan stems from the ability to hold a position in space. You
haven't the googlies to even tell people where you are.
Hartley Patterson
Ron Newman wrote:
> Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>
> I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
Just out of curiosity, this interest in finding out people's names seems
to be a common one in the CoS, one that picketers sometimes comment on.
The first picket I went on, the first question the OSA operative asked
me was "What is your name?"
So is there anything in the Tech about this, or in some 'how to handle
SPs' directive? Or is it just the first line on the Knowledge Report?
--
Hartley Patterson
Home Page: http://village.vossnet.co.uk/h/hpttrsn/
featuring medieval economics, an elderly universe,
J R R Tolkien, Charles Fort and L Ron Hubbard.
Zinj
In article <V6ad1Mdl...@islandnet.com>, mar...@islandnet.com says...
>
>In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>
>>In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>>
>>I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
>and how do any of us know that you are correct, you OSA creep?
>
Just to add.. OSA seems to think that outing people if really clever.
Personally I use a nick because I'm an old BBSer.. and happen to like using a
nick.
My real name is:
Joe Lynn
9939 1/2 Farralone Ave.
Chatsworth, Ca. 91311
(818) 993-0403
I've told that to many people who I trusted and seemed to want to know over the
last 7 years.
I admit.. I haven't told it to any sleazy little scientologists
Zinj
--
Don't forget - Last Rat off the Ship Goes to Jail
Zinj
In article <GQkd1.3261$c7.51...@news.inreach.com>, zinj...@inreach.com
says...
he had anything to do with 'outing' me to scientology.
I don't think he would even talk to 'rod' if he met him.
Martin Hunt
In article <3575D1...@vossnet.co.uk>,
Hartley Patterson <hpt...@remove.me.vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, this interest in finding out people's names seems
>to be a common one in the CoS, one that picketers sometimes comment on.
>The first picket I went on, the first question the OSA operative asked
>me was "What is your name?"
Same here. Joel Hoener (sp?) comes rushing out the doors, fails
to takes some pictures of me due to a faulty camera, then blurts
out "what's your name?" He was shaking in his shoes, he was so
scared of me. :-)
>So is there anything in the Tech about this, or in some 'how to handle
>SPs' directive? Or is it just the first line on the Knowledge Report?
<shrug> I guess. Time, place, form, and event. The Scientology
version of W5: who, what, where, when, why. The process seems:
1. Take down the SPs' names.
2. Get pictures of the SPs.
3. Phone the cops.
4. Tail the SPs when they leave.
There's a step 0 for the reception clark: go into a bug-eyed
frenzy of phoning someone in charge: DSA, ED, whoever.
Silly wabbit; tricks are for kids.
Warrior
In article <35760EA2...@gbdt.com.au>, Darren says...
>
>Sorry Erin, I think you have this wrong.
>
>The answer is in your 'scripture'.
>
>Rod is a *DEAD AGENT*. You are a *DEAD AGENT*. People aren't concerned by yet
>another allegation by a CofS appologist - it's very likely to be just another
>lie, or another half truth - time will tell. If there was some proof I have
>*NO* doubt that the CofS would be using to legally harass Warrior.
>
>Darren.
There is no crime to charge me with. $cientology knows this. The fact is
simply that I know too much, have too good a memory and have the nerve to
write about my 8-year involvement in the Sea Org cult. Rather than respond
to my posting (which is forbidden by Hubbard's policy to "attack, never
defend") and addressing what I write about, OSA attacks.
The OSA Unit "terminals" known as "Rod" and "Erin" only post what they
are ordered to. I sincerely doubt that the OSA goons posting here have
read what it is they are responding to. It is likely they don't even read
what they post. My bet is that the postings are written by one "terminal"
(Hubbard's term for a person) and uploaded by another.
Warrior
See http://www.entheta.net/entheta/1stpersn/warrior/
Jerod Pore
Ron Newman (rne...@thecia.net) wrote:
: Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
: I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
I can't say just who the people are behind the "Rod Fletcher" bot, but
they have learned to emulate Elron in one aspect, that of cute little
puns and in-jokes. Just as "Thetan" is no more than a lisping version
of "Satan", "Rod Fletcher" is very close to the name of the character
portrayed by Jim Carrey in the movie "Liar Liar."
How apt. How very hubbardian. For far too many of the OSA shills on this
newsgroup are, indeed, pathological liars. They must show their "ethics"
officers how well they've done with TR-L.
Got a problem with the truth? Don't worry. Scientology can help you with
that.
: --
: Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
: http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
--
Jerod Pore - a.k.a. jerod23 at both well.com & netcom.com
Zines FAQ & over 3,000 reviews - http://www.factsheet5.com
Yet another anti-Scientology page - http://www.well.com/user/jerod23/clam.html
Deana Holmes
On 3 Jun 1998 12:54:19 -0700, ErinAn...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>rne...@thecia.net says...
>>
>>In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>>
>>Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>>
>>I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
>
>Woah. Now, let me get this straight, Ron. Rod names a person
>who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
>more important that Rod posted his name.
No, sir. This is the deal, "Erin Anderson" (and I do believe that is
your Real Name):
Your "Rod Fletcher" has posted DA packs about people and smeared their
good names for months and months now. But we don't know who this "Rod
Fletcher" is. For all I know, it could be David Miscavige, except
that Miscavige is a computer illiterate.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Deana
mir...@xmission.com
====================
Our unanimous affirmance of the Court of Appeals' judgment concerning
16-1-20.2 makes it unnecessary to comment at length on the District
Court's remarkable conclusion that the Federal Constitution imposes no
obstacle to Alabama's establishment of a state religion.
========================
Wallace V. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985)
Darren Hutchinson
ErinAn...@rocketmail.com wrote: Woah. Now, let me get this straight, Ron. Rod
names a person
> who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
> more important that Rod posted his name.
>
> Are the rest of your morals that convoluted?
>
> I think you should put down your keyboard
> and go for a walk on the beach for a few weeks.
> Get your priorities in life straightened around.
> This virtual reality has done a job on your idea
> of right and wrong. Phew.
>
> Erin
>
>
Sorry Erin, I think you have this wrong.
The answer is in your 'scripture'.
Rod is a *DEAD AGENT*. You are a *DEAD AGENT*. People aren't concerned by yet
another allegation by a CofS appologist - it's very likely to be just another lie,
or another half truth - time will tell. If there was some proof I have *NO* doubt
that the CofS would be using to legally harass Warrior.
Rod has, once again, done something that is considered unacceptable by many people
in this group. He has violated the privacy of someone who obviously didn't (like
Rod) feel like making his comments under his own name.
If there is one thing I *CAN* trust about rod (and you for that matter) is that
the lowest standards of human behaviour will be followed whenever it suits your
purposes. Sadly the low road seems to be the only road for the CofS almost all of
the time.
I feel sorry for the CofS sometimes. You think that if you 'handle' the visible
critics then your problems will be solved.
You really don't have a clue - do you?
Darren.
randf
Hartley Patterson wrote in message <3575D1...@vossnet.co.uk>...
>Ron Newman wrote:
>
>> Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>>
>> I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
>Just out of curiosity, this interest in finding out people's names seems
>to be a common one in the CoS, one that picketers sometimes comment on.
>The first picket I went on, the first question the OSA operative asked
>me was "What is your name?"
>
>So is there anything in the Tech about this, or in some 'how to handle
>SPs' directive? Or is it just the first line on the Knowledge Report?
>
>--
>Hartley Patterson
>Home Page: http://village.vossnet.co.uk/h/hpttrsn/
>featuring medieval economics, an elderly universe,
>J R R Tolkien, Charles Fort and L Ron Hubbard.
Well, it is often the second line line in most people's KRs - the first
being the type of report. Their reference is "HCOPL Staff Member Reports".
To Hell with the date.
Also it gives them something to say to an SP. By originating communication,
they believe they are "being at cause" and the SP the "effect (receiving)
point. they think this might throw someone off balance. I would say "Joe".
Of course, the OSAss will next ask "Joe what" (maybe they like knock-knock
jokes). Then I'd reply "Joe Mamma". Not very original, I know! Might work.
Their reference would probably be HCOB Axiom 34 Amended.
RF
"the church of scientology - huge crotch of holy incest" (anagram)
LilAlex742
Fraud Letcher continues to prove that he is an unmitigated shit and cult butt
boy with:
> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
What a disgusting pile you are, eh Fraud? Keep showing us what your made of.
LilAlex
It is claimed that the program (Narconon) is well founded
in medical literature. There is however no scientific reference given for
this statement.
Chris Sutor
Martin Hunt (mar...@islandnet.com) spake thusly:
: Same here. Joel Hoener (sp?) comes rushing out the doors, fails
: to takes some pictures of me due to a faulty camera, then blurts
: out "what's your name?" He was shaking in his shoes, he was so
: scared of me. :-)
I wonder how they'd take it if people started responding "Hiya there
little missy - My names Johnny (strike pose) Johnny Bravo."
--
COBALTatTIGERDENdotCOM I'd really like a New World Order, but
----==============---- I can only afford a slightly used one.
now with 10% real *****************************************
fruit juice! Don't blame me, I voted for Richard Dangerous
Tommy_sp...@xs.net
Chris Sutor wrote:
>
> Martin Hunt (mar...@islandnet.com) spake thusly:
>
> : Same here. Joel Hoener (sp?) comes rushing out the doors, fails
> : to takes some pictures of me due to a faulty camera, then blurts
> : out "what's your name?" He was shaking in his shoes, he was so
> : scared of me. :-)
>
> I wonder how they'd take it if people started responding "Hiya there
> little missy - My names Johnny (strike pose) Johnny Bravo."
I personally would have to go with (dictating slowly) "David...
Mayo."
Tommy
--
"The fact that Scientology or it's members may have done something
illegal
has no bearing on the Keith Henson case."
"I don't make the mistake of mixing my beliefs with reality.."
Keith (Gunbunny) posted to a.r.s.
Paul
ErinAn...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> rne...@thecia.net says...
> >In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> >> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
> >
> >
> >I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
> who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
> more important that Rod posted his name.
Yes, because a) "Rod" didn't provide any evidence that Warrior did, in
fact, embezzle any funds; b) Warrior has emphatically denied embezzling
any funds, and c) "Rod" has about as much credibility on this newsgroup
as you do, "Erin".
> Are the rest of your morals that convoluted?
They are when confronted with such blatant disregard for the truth.
When you have some evidence that Warrior embezzled funds, come back and
post it. Until then, feel free to stick your dead-agenting where the
sun don't shine.
-Paul
Martin Hunt
>Chris Sutor wrote:
>>
>> Martin Hunt (mar...@islandnet.com) spake thusly:
>>
>> : Same here. Joel Hoener (sp?) comes rushing out the doors, fails
>> : to takes some pictures of me due to a faulty camera, then blurts
>> : out "what's your name?" He was shaking in his shoes, he was so
>> : scared of me. :-)
>>
>> I wonder how they'd take it if people started responding "Hiya there
>> little missy - My names Johnny (strike pose) Johnny Bravo."
>
> I personally would have to go with (dictating slowly) "David...
>Mayo."
Heh!
"Captain, 7th Unit, 2nd Battlefleet, Enemy Marcabian Attack Force
Alpha, 5th Galactic Invader Force. Long Live Admiral Xenu!" - delivered
in a deep, slow, stentorian intonation, with a harsh salute at the
"Long Live Admiral Xenu!", frowning with a piercing gaze directly
at the DSA dupe. :-)
--
Cogito, ergo sum. http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"It's wonderful to be out!! 2 PM Thursday is now just another hour
on the clock..." - One (Ex-)Scio.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In article <F5dd1Mdl...@islandnet.com>, Martin Hunt writes:
>>So is there anything in the Tech about this, or in some 'how to handle
>>SPs' directive? Or is it just the first line on the Knowledge Report?
>version of W5: who, what, where, when, why. The process seems:
>1. Take down the SPs' names.
>2. Get pictures of the SPs.
>3. Phone the cops.
>4. Tail the SPs when they leave.
The HUBBARD WAY to do things is---when someone discovers that he's
a theif, then beat that person up (or at least tell a lot of lies
against them do they won't be belived) before they tell the cops
or the press. In order to attack and intimidate anyone who discovers
his crimes, he of course has to disover the WHO is involved in
talling the truth about him so he can send the heavies round
to drown their dog. This is why they are so scared of anonymous
exposure of the sakrid droppings etc.
>There's a step 0 for the reception clark: go into a bug-eyed
>frenzy of phoning someone in charge: DSA, ED, whoever.
Not at London Day org; he barely had the energy to open
his shell and yawn.
In article <6l5rdm$ok1$1...@malgudi.oar.net>, Chris Sutor writes:
>Martin Hunt (mar...@islandnet.com) spake thusly:
>:
>: Same here. Joel Hoener (sp?) comes rushing out the doors, fails
>: to takes some pictures of me due to a faulty camera, then blurts
>: out "what's your name?" He was shaking in his shoes, he was so
>: scared of me. :-)
>
>I wonder how they'd take it if people started responding "Hiya there
>little missy - My names Johnny (strike pose) Johnny Bravo."
The approved answer is of course XEMU ETRAWL,
and spell it out for them.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
Michael T. Richter
Martin Hunt wrote in message ...
>>>: Same here. Joel Hoener (sp?) comes rushing out the doors, fails
>>>: to takes some pictures of me due to a faulty camera, then blurts
>>>: out "what's your name?" He was shaking in his shoes, he was so
>>>: scared of me. :-)
>>> I wonder how they'd take it if people started responding "Hiya there
>>> little missy - My names Johnny (strike pose) Johnny Bravo."
>> I personally would have to go with (dictating slowly) "David...
>> Mayo."
> Heh!
> "Captain, 7th Unit, 2nd Battlefleet, Enemy Marcabian Attack Force
> Alpha, 5th Galactic Invader Force. Long Live Admiral Xenu!" - delivered
> in a deep, slow, stentorian intonation, with a harsh salute at the
> "Long Live Admiral Xenu!", frowning with a piercing gaze directly
> at the DSA dupe. :-)
The official salute of the OSA (Ottawa Suppressives Association) here is the
"fist-to-the-side-of-the-head" salute from Monty Python's Life of Brian.
That combined with intoning "Hail Xenu! Praise to Eli Lilley! Prozac for
All!" (or variations thereof) in a ritualistic tone of voice.
JimDBB
>>Subject: Re: "Rod Fletcher" outs "Warrior"
>From: zinj...@inreach.com (Zinj)
>Date: Wed, Jun 3, 1998 19:17 EDT
> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>>>> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>>>> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>>>> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
'Embezzling' funds from scientology could hardly be call 'stealing'. I would
say that it is a direct method of getting back money that one wasa defrauded of
by the scientology cult.
JimDBB
Oldtimer
At 10:15 PM 6/3/98 GMT, you wrote:
>On 3 Jun 1998 12:54:19 -0700, in alt.religion.scientology Erin wrote:
>>Woah. Now, let me get this straight, Ron. Rod names a person
>>who may have embezzled funds from the CoS, but *you* think its
*********
>>more important that Rod posted his name.
Erin and Rod,
I'm getting rather confused with your and Rod's individual posts
concerning the recent outting of a critic of this newsgroup and hope you
can clarify things for me.
In your post you state: Rod names a person who 'may have' embezzled funds
from the CoS...
Rod's post stated the following:
In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
As you can see, Rod makes it rather clear that this Mark person did indeed
embezzle funds. Who is correct? Did Rod make a mistake by not adding the
-safe- words 'may have' embezzled funds?
I notice Erin you have been most careful recently when making comments
concerning Dennis Erlich. You include the word 'alledged'. Does this mean
the church has not been able to produce proof of Dennis abusing his
daughter/s but the church is wanting to continue with the Black PR
concerning the incident but is now playing it safer? If that's the case
someone should clue Rod Fletcher in as he's not using the safe words.
My opinion of the matter is, had the church obtained real evidence on
Dennis concerning the alledged child abuse, the church would have made sure
charges were brought against him. Of course, the church would have funded a
trial. Any idea Erin how much money the church has spent on investigators
in an attempt to prove child abuse charges against Dennis and couldn't?
Old Timer
randf
rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote in message
<6l84ea$r75$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>>
>> In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com
>wrote:
>>
>> > I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> > embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> > can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> > should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>>
>> Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
No one admires you for this as it is a non-accomplishment. Not even
"negative gain". He's still here, be he who he may.
You and I and everyone reading this knows WHAT YOU ARE. Your "identity" is
irrelevant and meaningless. You are one of the C-Borg collective that
travels this sector assimilating other life forms. You tried to assimilate
me once, but I was too strong for you.
>>
>> I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
> So Newman, you are now into threats. You are now trying to
> silence me. Are you going to hire professional hackers who
> will find out who I am and where I live, so that you can then
> do something against me and my children?
>
How would such a tactic differ from what your criminal gang do on a regular
basis ? Ought we not fight fire with fire when necessary ?
> I knew it - your freedom of speech issue was just a fake. Do
> you have a problem with me being a critic? What's your problem
> Newman - all those rights don't apply to me because I am a
> Scientologist? Rod.
>
There will always be unequal footing in this regard.
> PS. I have more names that friends have e-mailed to me. Would
> you like me to post them?
STOP!! YOU"RE SCARING US !!!
My BTs forced me to write this!
RF
"the 'church' of scientology - huge crotch of holy incest"
1998- why is there a "Snow White Pgms Chf" on OSA Int's Org Board ?
Learn the truth about scientology and the threat to the Net at
www.xenu.net
Warrior
In article <6l85lh$smo$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com says...
>
>In article <6l5767$7...@drn.newsguy.com>,
> Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
>> There is no crime to charge me with. $cientology knows this. The fact is
>> simply that I know too much, have too good a memory and have the nerve to
>> write about my 8-year involvement in the Sea Org cult. Rather than respond
>> to my posting (which is forbidden by Hubbard's policy to "attack, never
>> defend") and addressing what I write about, OSA attacks.
> Of course Mark. I was not expecting you to answer me otherwise.
What is the actual name of the person you refer to as "me"?
> I could care less what you "know" or "learned" in 8 years. You just
> make me laugh about your OSA theories. I am glad to hear that I am
> impinging on you if you now have the OSA paranoia.
You could care *less*??? I am happy to hear you could care less. Feel
free to laugh about my theories. For your info, I don't have "OSA paranoia",
so don't congratulate yourself or think you are inpinging. You merely
demonstrate to the world how you love to take joy from your imagined
induction of paranoia. It's all in your mind. But hey, don't let my saying
so stop you from trying to create paranoia. Your master, L Ron Hubbard,
was an expert at that, wasn't he? And you are totally "on purpose" with
your intent, right "Rod"?
> I can see that despite having blown from ASHO, leaving behind a
> serious embezzlement, you are still following policy, as you
> stated in your message. Rod.
I left ASHO, dude. Having been there was educational. Now I can
write and speak with reality to others who want to understand why
Scientology is such an evil cult. It is; and I can effectively
educate others about the scam Scientology runs on people. Think of
me as a Reverse FSM.
Did you know that I am *very* effective at enlightening people
about Scientology? I operate on the "TRC Triangle" -- truth, reality
and communication. It is *demolishes* affinity for Scientology.
You state that you "can see that despite having blown from ASHO,
leaving behind a serious embezzlement" that I am "still following
policy...". I stated no such thing. I follow my own policy of freely
communicating. Are you now going to claim that Hubbard wrote the
policy on a citizen's right to free speech?
> PS: So that you know - I read all the postings and that's how I
> found out who you - and other bigots - really are. You know what
> the funny part is? Without having the so called "OSA Unit" you
> guys leave so many clues that it is almost impossible to miss
> them. Read **all** your postings and it is practically your
> biography. I was at ASHO for a long time, but not on staff.
There never was anyone at ASHO during the same years as I, who was
named Rod Fletcher. I never knew anyone named Rod Fletcher, either
staff or public.
I am so happy you read all the postings. But you have it wrong
when you say I am a bigot.
You tell me that my postings are practically my biography. Duh!!!
I am glad you are "smart" enough to know *that*!!
Did you finally use your dictionary to look up the word "biography"?
Sheesh. You are one swift dude to have figured that out!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Would you like it if I begin posting some other crimes of Scientologists?
The crime by Kenny Shapiro was minor in relation to some of the other
crimes I have knowledge of.
Do you think I'm bluffing?
john smith
In article <6l84ea$r75$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>>
>> In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com
>wrote:
>>
>> > I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> > embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> > can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> > should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>>
>> Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>>
>
> So Newman, you are now into threats. You are now trying to
> silence me. Are you going to hire professional hackers who
> will find out who I am and where I live, so that you can then
> do something against me and my children?
>
so, you admit that "outing" is a threat and an attempt to silence critics?
William Barwell
In article <6kv8rf$l...@drn.newsguy.com>, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>In article <MPG.fdc6c632...@nntp.lightlink.com>,
>stars...@mindless.com says...
>>
>> Keith, why don't you fuck off and die. (Not to be construed as a Real
>>Threat, of course, for the brain cell challenged among the clam
>>apologists like yourself.) Most of us here have a better respect for
>>Warrior than we do for you and your ravings any day.
>
> Thanks, Starshadow. Email I receive a very supportive too.
>Have you all noticed that Scientology and Scientologists almost
>never attempt to refute my postings? Almost all responses are
>attacks in the form of name-calling and/or mischaracterizations
>of my intents for posting my stories.
>
SOP.
Yes, we have noticed. And I have noticed that many basic
problems with Scientology's beliefs and claims have not been
addresses by Scientologist proponents since I found ARS in August
of 1994.
I don't expect any Scientologists here to deal with such issues.
They are simply incapable of doing that.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
SP 2
rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
> >
> > Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
> >
> > I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
> So Newman, you are now into threats. You are now trying to
> silence me. Are you going to hire professional hackers who
> will find out who I am and where I live, so that you can then
> do something against me and my children?
>
> I knew it - your freedom of speech issue was just a fake. Do
> you have a problem with me being a critic? What's your problem
> Newman - all those rights don't apply to me because I am a
> Scientologist? Rod.
>
Wow, I knew that the OSA bots on this NG could really twist statements
around, but this is unbelieveable. Mr. Newman's quote, included above,
was "I think it's time to find out who 'Rod Fletcher' really is, too."
Period. Here's a translation for you:
Let us find out the name of the person posting under the name 'Rod
Fletcher.'
There was no threat there, and absolutely no attempt to silence you. Mr.
Newman did not say, "We need to find you who Rod Fletcher is, so that we
may keep this idiot from posting to Usenet." Mr. Newman NEVER stated that
you didn't have the right to post what "you think." Oh, I should add that
no comments about your children have been made to this newsgroup until YOU
mentioned them.
Look out, Mr. Newman, they are planting the seeds to call you a pedophile!
--
"Commodore" SP 2, and moving!!!
Starshadow
> wrote:
> >
> > > I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> > > embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> > > can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> > > should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
> >
> >
> > I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
> So Newman, you are now into threats. You are now trying to
> silence me. Are you going to hire professional hackers who
> will find out who I am and where I live, so that you can then
> do something against me and my children?
>
> I knew it - your freedom of speech issue was just a fake. Do
> you have a problem with me being a critic? What's your problem
> Newman - all those rights don't apply to me because I am a
> Scientologist? Rod.
>
> you like me to post them?
> >
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
>
I see, "rod", it is okay for you to "silence free speech" by posting
real names, but tit for tat isn't allowed.
Stupid clam, your double standard shows bigtime. As usual.
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow SP4, Granny Dyke
randf
Warrior wrote in message <6l8b2r$r...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>In article <6l85lh$smo$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com
says...
>>
>>In article <6l5767$7...@drn.newsguy.com>,
>> Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>>
<... ...>
> Would you like it if I begin posting some other crimes of
Scientologists?
>The crime by Kenny Shapiro was minor in relation to some of the other
>crimes I have knowledge of.
>
> Do you think I'm bluffing?
>
>Warrior
DO IT!!
Screw this sorry pissant.
We are at cause against scientology as they must wait to see what the SPs do
in order for them to react appropriately.
This person is so deluded by Hubbard he thinks he already "knows"
all - he does not have to "learn" it.
I'm laughing at the consternation you have caused this "experienced
scientology terminal"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Rob Clark
On Fri, 05 Jun 1998 07:10:41 GMT, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I can see that despite having blown from ASHO, leaving behind a
> serious embezzlement, you are still following policy, as you
> stated in your message. Rod.
if he supposedly "embezzled" money, then why is your criminal cult too weak and
pathetic to do ANYTHING about it but grab your ankles and let out a little
squeal as you get shafted for the millionth time? i mean i've heard this stupid
little "embezzling" lie from your cult about damn near everyone who left. come
up with some new lies, you pathetic con-artist. and grab those ankles. davey's
coming up behind you again!
OOF!
rob
Rob Clark
On Fri, 05 Jun 1998 06:49:46 GMT, rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>> Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>> I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
> So Newman, you are now into threats. You are now trying to
> silence me. Are you going to hire professional hackers who
> will find out who I am and where I live, so that you can then
> do something against me and my children?
why? are you afraid? is that why you are hiding like a worm under a rock?
don't worry, ron newman is no threat to anyone. only a true failure and a
non-confront coward could possibly live in fear of ron newman.
or are you afraid that ron newman is going to uncover your crimes?
> I knew it - your freedom of speech issue was just a fake. Do
> you have a problem with me being a critic? What's your problem
> Newman - all those rights don't apply to me because I am a
> Scientologist? Rod.
you have felt it entirely fine to out people continually. thus you should have
no problem with receiving such treatment yourself. in fact that's one of the
only things i can think of that justifies an outing. out the outer.
i would like to hear you squeal pitifully when it happens to you. not "because
you are a scientologist" but because you are a nasty little shit. the only use
of you is to make sure any possible lurkers get a good look at a scientologist,
then vomit and stay away from it like leprosy.
> PS. I have more names that friends have e-mailed to me. Would
> you like me to post them?
why not? you are already known scum, it's not like you have a reputation to
lose or anything. keep hammering those nails in. there might still be some
people who don't yet know what a low little puling scumbag you are.
in either case, have fun, on your long spiral en route to hell.
rob
Bernie
Hartley Patterson <hpt...@remove.me.vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, this interest in finding out people's names seems
>to be a common one in the CoS, one that picketers sometimes comment on.
>The first picket I went on, the first question the OSA operative asked
>me was "What is your name?"
>
>So is there anything in the Tech about this, or in some 'how to handle
>SPs' directive? Or is it just the first line on the Knowledge Report?
To know "who" is a basic Scn policy with bad rumors. They hope to
trace the SP this way, and stop the "third party".
Bernie
http://uc2.unicall.be/bernie/home.htm
Having an opinion makes one a critic. But it doesn't
make the criticism valid. That's the major problem
with ARS. Too many assholes with mere opinions. (Wolf)
Geoff Burling
On 1 Jun 1998 12:48:11 -0700, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> saith:
> As his overspending was chronic and repeated, I decided to withhold
>$5.00 from his pay, in accordance with HCO PL 2 June 1959 "Purchasing
>Liability of Staff Members", to go towards repaying the unauthorized
>expenditure.
>
> The assault incident occurred around 1981 in connection with this
>incident. Kenny had sent a subordinate to my office on Friday night
>to pick up his pay. Upon finding out that his pay had been docked $5.00
>he flew into a rage; I heard him yell my name from down the hall a few
>doors away. Next, he stormed into my office yelling, "I'm gonna *kill*
>you!", while shoving me backwards with both arms against my chest. The
>force sent me over backwards into my desk, injuring my back badly. I
>wrote this incident up, but the "Ethics Officer" did nothing about it.
>
He wanted to kill you over FIVE DOLLARS????
I guess that
1) He was a penny-pinching Godless little dweeb; or
2) The CoS wasn't paying him all that much (five dollars is a lot if
you are making not more than $100 a month); or
3) Both of the above.
This speaks volumes about the ``advanced nature" of Scientology.
Geoff
Olympic-Class Bore
Note that my return address has been munged to foil spambots.
Want to try Hubbard's ``Tech"? Go to http://www.fza.org/pilot/
& do it for free!!!
tak
>>
>> I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
> So Newman, you are now into threats.
This amounts to a defacto admission that you think it is objectionable for
someone to out another anonymous poster. And yet, you yourself have done
exactly that. If outing someone who doesn't want to be outed is such a bad
thing, why did you do it, you hypocritical sucker of Satan's cock?
> You are now trying to
> silence me.
No he isn't, you paranoid sack of sub-human shit. He's simply saying that
what's gravy for the goose is gravy for the gander. You out others, you
should be outed. Simple, fair and sane.
> Are you going to hire professional hackers who
> will find out who I am and where I live, so that you can then
> do something against me and my children?
Jeez, seeing as YOU'RE the one that started outing people, perhaps the above
is what YOU plan to do to other people? Certainly there is nothing in
Newman's post to indicate plans in the nature of anything you mention here.
Is your guilty clam conscience getting the better of you?
> I knew it - your freedom of speech issue was just a fake. Do
> you have a problem with me being a critic?
You're not a critic. You're a pathetic clam.
> What's your problem
> Newman - all those rights don't apply to me because I am a
> Scientologist? Rod.
> PS. I have more names that friends have e-mailed to me. Would
> you like me to post them?
What was that about threats, you hypocritical chunk of wolverine feces?
( )*( ) <--- Rod Fletcher wins asshole of the week award!
Mt
Captain Nerd
In article <6l84ea$r75$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
<rod_fl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>>
>wrote:
>>
>> > I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>> > embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>> > can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>> > should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>>
>>
>> I think it's time to find out who "Rod Fletcher" really is, too.
>
> silence me. Are you going to hire professional hackers who
> will find out who I am and where I live, so that you can then
> do something against me and my children?
>
> Newman - all those rights don't apply to me because I am a
> Scientologist? Rod.
>
> PS. I have more names that friends have e-mailed to me. Would
> you like me to post them?
It's time to stop, now. You're tired, you're worn out, and
it's time to rest. Walk away from the computer, go outside,
out into the clean air and open spaces. It's peaceful out
there, the birds are singing, it's a beautiful free day.
You don't have to post messages, you don't have to get your
stats up, you don't have to do anything but live. You can
do it. Go on, outside into the real world, where the children
are laughing, the trees are green, and all kinds of good
things are there to be experienced.
Think back, remember all the good things that happened
to you, remember the best birthday present you got. Did
you have a dog or cat when you were growing up? Remember
the fun you had, playing with it? Remember when you didn't
have any cares? You can have that again, all you have to
do is just walk away. Just for a little while. You don't
have to be anywhere, you don't have to do anything, you
can just walk. Go ahead. You're tired, and you need to
be rest, again. You need to live, again. You need to
care, once more. You can do it, too! Be free, again.
Walk away.
Cap.
--
===============================================================================
= Mail: cpt...@acces.digex.net Web: http://www.access.digex.net/~cptnerd =
= "By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes" =
===============================================================================
Steve Jebson
[p/m]
Inducto wrote:
>
> >>Gunbunny is confused about logics, yes brainwashing can exist
> >
> >Prove it.
> >
> >Keith
>
> To begin with, I think Warrior _did_ make an error of commission by not
> qualifying his statement about brainwashing to make it clear how he thinks he
> was able to overcome it, leaving the implication that everyone in CoS is
> completely brainwashed.
I think it was you who made a mistake, Inducto. Warrior never said a
word about
brainwashing. Gunbunny brought that word into the discussiion
deliberately,
with the attempt, which is proving successful, to distort the meaning of
an
excellent post and throw off the thread.
Warrior posted about how sustained immersion in the Co$ world view
gradually
alters your concepts of right and wrong. The words 'ethics' and 'morals'
are
themselves redefined in a way that is, perhaps deliberately, quite
confusing.
(LRH said, "Ethics is a personal thing... When one is ethical... it is
by his
own detrmination and is done by himself." So why is there an 'Ethics
Officer'
watching over you and punishing your 'out-ethics' acts?) The rest of
society
comes to be seen increasingly as evil and PTS, and its standards
appropiately
disdained. Also, over time, you hear bits and pieces of the 'real
truth', the
conspiracies and aliens that control Earth society and the whole track
it is
supposedly stuck in.
By talking about 'brainwashing', we change the subject to a phenomenon
that
may not exist at all, and is probably not applicable to CO$ (except for
the RPF)
if it does. The question here has nothing at all to do with
brainwashing,
it is how Co$ reconstructs your reality to alter and, it hopes, control
your behavior. Gunbunny's whole argument, and his misdirection,
collapse
if you simply talk about influence rather than brainwashing. The
influence
gets increasingly stronger as you adopt the world view more and more;
as you begin to to question it, the influence weakens and, for most
people
breaks.
William Barwell
In article <6l88qt$9738$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
randf <Rand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>rod_fl...@hotmail.com wrote in message
><6l84ea$r75$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com
>>wrote:
>>>
>>> > I am wondering if this has something to do with your
>>> > embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
>>> > can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
>>> > should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
>>>
>>> Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
>
>"negative gain". He's still here, be he who he may.
>You and I and everyone reading this knows WHAT YOU ARE. Your "identity" is
>irrelevant and meaningless. You are one of the C-Borg collective that
>travels this sector assimilating other life forms. You tried to assimilate
>me once, but I was too strong for you.
of a nasty little cult. Nothing more. His cheap little antics
are nothing more than the truculent nastiness ofa cult that has
so littkle good to say for itself that petty harassment is all they have
left. Outing netizens, making obvious libels about alledged thefts.
Why I bet Rod has stolen a bit in his lifetime, petty cash from Mommy's
purse, toys from the store, maybe shoplifted a beer or two in his time,
right Rod? It's all in his PC file.
I bet he isn't trusted enough to be in a position in Scientology
to embezzle funds, I bet they don't even leave the petty cash drawer
unlocked around the org.
So, Rod, what were your crimes, care to discuss them here, or is all you
are capable of doing is libelling Warrior with unwarranted and obvious
false smears and defamations.
Well, we may never know about Rod's petty thefts, but we do know about his
penchant for smears lies and libels.
And he showed himself for what he was all by himself.
A peculiar species of dishonesty, not the selfish dishonesty of
petty thefts, but the hateful dishonesty of a little man who would
purposefully defame another person, and attempt to destroy reputations
with lies and obviously false character assassinations.
And you know a creature like that just has to have been a petty
occasioanl thief in the past. He has that sort of personality, you can
tell.
Snigger.
randf
William Barwell wrote in message <6lctet$7sa$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>...
>In article <6l88qt$9738$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
>randf <Rand...@aol.com> wrote:
>><... ...>
Your "identity" is
>>irrelevant and meaningless. You are one of the C-Borg collective that
>>travels this sector assimilating other life forms. You tried to assimilate
>>me once, but I was too strong for you.
>
>Ohhhh, come on. Rod's not even that. Rod is a silly little member
>of a nasty little cult. Nothing more. His cheap little antics
>are nothing more than the truculent nastiness ofa cult that has
>so littkle good to say for itself that petty harassment is all they have
>left. Outing netizens, making obvious libels about alledged thefts.
>
<... ...>
>Pope Charles
>SubGenius Pope Of Houston
>Slack!
>
>
Yeah, but I had him going with it. He might have taken me to the head Borg
if I convinced him that I would be assimilated again willingly!
Not Patric Stewart
Starshadow
In article <6kv8rf$l...@drn.newsguy.com>, war...@entheta.net says...
> In article <MPG.fdc6c632...@nntp.lightlink.com>,
> stars...@mindless.com says...
> >
> > Keith, why don't you fuck off and die. (Not to be construed as a Real
> >Threat, of course, for the brain cell challenged among the clam
> >apologists like yourself.) Most of us here have a better respect for
> >Warrior than we do for you and your ravings any day.
>
> Thanks, Starshadow. Email I receive a very supportive too.
> Have you all noticed that Scientology and Scientologists almost
> never attempt to refute my postings? Almost all responses are
> attacks in the form of name-calling and/or mischaracterizations
> of my intents for posting my stories.
>
> >become. But I doubt you'll do it, you are morally bankrupt, and from
> >where I stand pretty damn despicable.
>
> Scientlogists do the best job in demonstrating how utterly incapable
> they are when it comes to admitting wrongs and/or apologizing.
>
> Make no mistake about this: Scientologists engage in black PR in
> the form of character assassination, name-calling, the allegation of
> falsehoods, innuendo, half-truths, etc. intentionally and in accordance
> with policies written by L Ron Hubbard.
>
> These methods are used in an attempt to cast disrepute on critics,
> particularly ex-Scientologists. There are many examples of this.
>
> And Scientology continues to wonder why they have a PR problem!
>
> Critics can be right, too, Keith.
>
> Warrior
> See http://www.entheta.net/entheta/1stpersn/warrior/
>
> ------------------
> Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
>
they are most enlightening.
The clams and clam apologists are as well, but most of 'em not quite in
the way they think they are...
Starshadow
In article <357539d1...@news2.teleport.com>, gunbu...@yahoo.com
> In article <MPG.fdc6c632...@nntp.lightlink.com>,
> stars...@mindless.com says...
> >
> > Keith, why don't you fuck off and die. (Not to be construed as a Real
> >Threat, of course, for the brain cell challenged among the clam
> >apologists like yourself.) Most of us here have a better respect for
> >Warrior than we do for you and your ravings any day.
>
> >become. But I doubt you'll do it, you are morally bankrupt, and from
> >where I stand pretty damn despicable.
>
>
> are making the mistake that somehow my opinions on ARS is really the moral
> issue in my life. Debating viewpoints on a newsgroup is just a small part of
> my life.
>
>
> Keith
> -------------------------------
>
I believe that as much as I believe that you are leaving the newsgroup.
You've said that before too.
You are either a) lying, b) stupid, or c) think the rest of us are
stupid and have no memory.
Or possibly all three.
Steve Jebson
Bernie wrote:
>
> Steve Jebson <nais...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> >By talking about 'brainwashing', we change the subject to a phenomenon that
> >may not exist at all, and is probably not applicable to CO$ (except for the RPF)
> >if it does. The question here has nothing at all to do with brainwashing,
> >it is how Co$ reconstructs your reality to alter and, it hopes, control
> >your behavior. Gunbunny's whole argument, and his misdirection, collapse
> >if you simply talk about influence rather than brainwashing. The influence
> >gets increasingly stronger as you adopt the world view more and more;
> >as you begin to to question it, the influence weakens and, for most people
> >breaks.
>
> but influence can be validly argued. The main reason for this is that
> influence does not implicitly deny the basic free will and
> responsibility of the person being influenced.
>
> Influence, however, isn't a one way street - where unscrupulous
> leaders consciously defraud innocent members, as Warrior implies. It
> mostly is an unconscious group process. It is mostly based on the need
> to believe, or, as is the case for some "critics", the need to
> disbelieve.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. I think it is both.
Elements of it may well be an unconscious group process, but that
process can
be and is manipulated by unscrupulous groups for their advantage and
your
disadvantage.
However, the role the individual plays in going along with this should
never
be ignored. The Co$ tries to persuade you to give up your own values
and
standards, replacing them with theirs. They work hard at this and are
very
good and very persistent, but the choice is always yours.
Orwell caught this quite nicely in the latter portion of 1984. Winston
is
forced to say that 2 + 2 = 5, and that is a triumph for O'Brien, but it
isn't
by any means the end. Winston is only 'cured' when he not merely says
this,
and can be counted on never to publicly deny it, but when he genuinely
believes it. Orwell's description of Winston ultimately accepting it
not
merely to end the imprisonment, but forcing himself to truly reorient
his
entire value system around it, is masterful.
Bernie
Steve Jebson <nais...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>By talking about 'brainwashing', we change the subject to a phenomenon that
>may not exist at all, and is probably not applicable to CO$ (except for the RPF)
>if it does. The question here has nothing at all to do with brainwashing,
>it is how Co$ reconstructs your reality to alter and, it hopes, control
>your behavior. Gunbunny's whole argument, and his misdirection, collapse
>if you simply talk about influence rather than brainwashing. The influence
>gets increasingly stronger as you adopt the world view more and more;
>as you begin to to question it, the influence weakens and, for most people
>breaks.
Nicely stated. Brainwashing and mind-control are untenable concepts,
but influence can be validly argued. The main reason for this is that
influence does not implicitly deny the basic free will and
responsibility of the person being influenced.
Influence, however, isn't a one way street - where unscrupulous
leaders consciously defraud innocent members, as Warrior implies. It
mostly is an unconscious group process. It is mostly based on the need
to believe, or, as is the case for some "critics", the need to
disbelieve.
Bernie
Marca...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6lauia$o...@access4.digex.net>,
cpt...@access4.digex.net (Captain Nerd) wrote:
>
> In article <6l84ea$r75$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> <rod_fl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <6l256b$ahn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rod_fl...@hotmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > I am wondering if this has something to do with your
> >> > embezzlement of the funds when you were at ASHO. You
> >> > can call yourself a warrior now, Mark Plummer, but you
> >> > should change it into "The Thief". Rod.
> >>
> >> Sigh. Once again a Scientologist "outs" an anonymous critic.
> >>
>
===============================================================================
> = Mail: cpt...@acces.digex.net Web: http://www.access.digex.net/~cptnerd
=
> = "By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes"
=
>
===============================================================================
>
Bernie
Steve Jebson <nais...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>Bernie wrote:
>> Nicely stated. Brainwashing and mind-control are untenable concepts,
>> but influence can be validly argued. The main reason for this is that
>> influence does not implicitly deny the basic free will and
>> responsibility of the person being influenced.
>> Influence, however, isn't a one way street - where unscrupulous
>> leaders consciously defraud innocent members, as Warrior implies. It
>> mostly is an unconscious group process. It is mostly based on the need
>> to believe, or, as is the case for some "critics", the need to
>> disbelieve.
>It doesn't have to be one or the other. I think it is both.
Note: your posts come out as badly formated, Steve, like this
paragraph:
>Elements of it may well be an unconscious group process, but that
>process can
>be and is manipulated by unscrupulous groups for their advantage and
>your
>disadvantage.
Usually I reformat them before replying, but just to let you know
(sometimes it's not visible for one's own terminal).
>However, the role the individual plays in going along with this should never
>be ignored. The Co$ tries to persuade you to give up your own values and
>standards,
I think we are going to play the same game as I did with others
already:
Who is "the Co$"?
>replacing them with theirs.
Whose?
>They work hard at this and are very
>good and very persistent, but the choice is always yours.
Who is "they"?
Tommy_sp...@xs.net
>
> >replacing them with theirs.
>
> Whose?
>
> >They work hard at this and are very
> >good and very persistent, but the choice is always yours.
>
> Who is "they"?
Jeez, Bernie - you DO sound like O'Brien. Ever read the book? The next
thing I expect to come out is "How many fingers am I holding up?".
> Having an opinion makes one a critic. But it doesn't
> make the criticism valid. That's the major problem
> with ARS. Too many assholes with mere opinions. (Wolf)
Of course that's just Wolf's opinion............
Tommy
--
$cientology "handles" the internet: "Commander Miscavige, there's a
burning
paper bag on our front porch! What should we do??"
Miscavige: "Go stomp on it and put it out."
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In<35a196bf....@news.ping.be>, Bernie <be...@arcadis.be> writes
>Steve Jebson <nais...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
>>By talking about 'brainwashing', we change the subject to a phenomenon that
>>may not exist at all, and is probably not applicable to CO$ (except for the
>RPF)
>>if it does. The question here has nothing at all to do with brainwashing,
>>it is how Co$ reconstructs your reality to alter and, it hopes, control
>>your behavior. Gunbunny's whole argument, and his misdirection, collapse
>>if you simply talk about influence rather than brainwashing. The influence
>>gets increasingly stronger as you adopt the world view more and more;
>>as you begin to to question it, the influence weakens and, for most people
>>breaks.
>
Yeah sure, Barmpot, how about killing people by dehydration is that
"untenable"
--
//////\\\
/ (~) (~) \ "Sometimes, Barmpot, your deductive processes
[( / \ {)]} truly amaze me."
\ ._. .-. / : --Captain Hastings, in
\_=====_/ Hercule Barmpot: The Case of the Missing Marbles
Bernie
Tommy_sp...@xs.net wrote:
>Bernie wrote:
>>
>> Steve Jebson <nais...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Who is "the Co$"?
>>
>> >replacing them with theirs.
>>
>> Whose?
>>
>> >They work hard at this and are very
>> >good and very persistent, but the choice is always yours.
>>
>> Who is "they"?
>Jeez, Bernie - you DO sound like O'Brien. Ever read the book? The next
>thing I expect to come out is "How many fingers am I holding up?".
I see. Dodging the question, eh? Mind you, that's exactly what
happened last time too. I wonder how long it will take for "critics"
to come up with a straight answer to this straight question. It made
for a fascinating thread last time. As I can see, this one is about to
go the same way. I feel I am going to amuse myself tremendously again.
--
Bernie
http://uc2.unicall.be/bernie/home.htm
Everything should be made as simple as possible,
but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)
Tommy_sp...@xs.net
Bernie wrote:
>
> Tommy_sp...@xs.net wrote:
>
> >Bernie wrote:
> >>
> >> Steve Jebson <nais...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Who is "the Co$"?
> >>
> >> >replacing them with theirs.
> >>
> >> Whose?
> >>
> >> >They work hard at this and are very
> >> >good and very persistent, but the choice is always yours.
> >>
> >> Who is "they"?
>
> >Jeez, Bernie - you DO sound like O'Brien. Ever read the book? The next
> >thing I expect to come out is "How many fingers am I holding up?".
>
> I see. Dodging the question, eh? Mind you, that's exactly what
> happened last time too. I wonder how long it will take for "critics"
Who are "critics"?
> to come up with a straight answer to this straight question.
What is the "question"?
> It made
> for a fascinating thread last time. As I can see, this one
What is "this one"?
>is about to
> go the same way. I feel I am going to amuse myself tremendously again.
You are easily amused.
Bernie
ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) wrote:
>In article <358cdf7e....@news.ping.be>, Bernie <be...@arcadis.be> wrote:
>>Steve Jebson <nais...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Nicely stated. Brainwashing and mind-control are untenable concepts,
>>>> but influence can be validly argued. The main reason for this is that
>>>> influence does not implicitly deny the basic free will and
>>>> responsibility of the person being influenced.
>>>> Influence, however, isn't a one way street - where unscrupulous
>>>> leaders consciously defraud innocent members, as Warrior implies. It
>>>> mostly is an unconscious group process. It is mostly based on the need
>>>> to believe, or, as is the case for some "critics", the need to
>>>> disbelieve.
>>>It doesn't have to be one or the other. I think it is both.
>>>Elements of it may well be an unconscious group process, but that process can
>>>be and is manipulated by unscrupulous groups for their advantage and your
>>>disadvantage.
>>>However, the role the individual plays in going along with this should never
>>>be ignored. The Co$ tries to persuade you to give up your own values and
>>>standards,
>>I think we are going to play the same game as I did with others
>>already:
>I must have missed all the fun last time.
I will try to archive it some day. Well worth it. Will let you know when
it's done, to share the fun.
>>Who is "the Co$"?
>The Church of Scientology (albeit with a wisecrack replacing one of
>the letters). Why is this suppposed to be so difficult? The "Co$" is
>the organization of the Church of Scientology from top to bottom, from
>those who set the policies to those who implement them.
Would that include those who follow the policies? Are you splitting up the
group between those who set/implement the policies and those who follow
them? And who exactly sets the policies? Who implements them?
>>>replacing them with theirs.
>>Whose?
>Those who "own" the policies and practices of the "tech" in the
>CoS by using and implementing them.
And who would that include? Taking into account that everyone in the CoS is
in a hierarchy, moves up and down constantly, where do you draw the line?
Where do you split up the "unscrupulous group that manipulates" and the
"manipulated"?
>What are you getting at, Bernie? It seems to me the pronouns
>are clear enough.
It is my assertion that there is no unscrupulous group that consciously
manipulates others in this case. That would make the same staff member one
time the evil oppressor who knowingly exploits the innocent, and one time
the innocent victim whose ignorance is being exploited, which is absurd. It
is considerably more complex than that. I think that it is based on the
need to believe of each member, whether he be up the scale or down the
scale, and the mutual interraction that goes on on this basis. By using the
"CoS" or "they" in such a context, we create a false duality, which, IMO,
is a reflection of the cultic mindset just as well.
Zinj
Bernie wrote>
It is my assertion that there is no unscrupulous group that consciously
manipulates others in this case. That would make the same staff member one
time the evil oppressor who knowingly exploits the innocent, and one time
the innocent victim whose ignorance is being exploited, which is absurd.
-----------
I don't see why you say that absurd Bernie. Certainly the 1984 Oceana prole,
outer, inner party example has always seemed to be a very good analogy for the
Co$, in more ways than one.
And that was a major factor in that organization, which while fictional,
still stands up as a description of totalitarian organizations.
In a more real world context the Soviet communist party is a good analogy of
Scientology organization.. with it remaining to be seen whether Co$ is still
in a Stalinist single top organization or a later version of sovietism, with
a development of a Nomenclatura-type priviledged social layer.
In any of these cases tho, power works in both directions.
The bully is probably bullied himself.
Zinj
--
Don't forget - Last Rat off the Ship Goes to Jail
Bernie
zinj...@inreach.com (Zinj) wrote:
>Bernie wrote>
>
>It is my assertion that there is no unscrupulous group that consciously
>manipulates others in this case. That would make the same staff member one
>time the evil oppressor who knowingly exploits the innocent, and one time
>the innocent victim whose ignorance is being exploited, which is absurd.
>-----------
>
>I don't see why you say that absurd Bernie. Certainly the 1984 Oceana prole,
>outer, inner party example has always seemed to be a very good analogy for the
>Co$, in more ways than one.
>And that was a major factor in that organization, which while fictional,
>still stands up as a description of totalitarian organizations.
If you were less criptic, I may even understant what it is that you are
speaking about, Zinj. Make a summary or give an URL.
>In a more real world context the Soviet communist party is a good analogy of
>Scientology organization..
Yes. Soviet communist is a good analogy. I agree with this one, with some
difference though, but basically they have many things in common. My
analysis stands for Communism too. These people *really believed* in their
doctrine. This was *much more* of a factor than a supposed unscrupulous
group exploiting a supposed innocent citizens. Of course, communistes had
the *means* to impose their doctrine even on those who didn't want any of
it, which is where one of the difference lays, but the core group did
believe in the cause, and it wasn't a matter of unscrupoulus and conscious
exploitation. Cultism is an unconscious mechanism wherin someone does
wrong, believing he does good. This can happen in under many *more*
circumstances than just cults, and I pointed to several examples in the
past right here in this newsgroup.
>with it remaining to be seen whether Co$ is still
>in a Stalinist single top organization or a later version of sovietism, with
>a development of a Nomenclatura-type priviledged social layer.
>
>In any of these cases tho, power works in both directions.
>The bully is probably bullied himself.
Power works in both direction, but not in terms of conscious "bullies".
IMO, it works at the level of unconscious mutual exploitation, wherein the
followers have as an active part as the leaders.
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In article <35a55a29...@news.ping.be>,
>>I don't see why you say that absurd Bernie. Certainly the 1984 Oceana prole,
>>outer, inner party example has always seemed to be a very good analogy for the
>>Co$, in more ways than one.
>>And that was a major factor in that organization, which while fictional,
>>still stands up as a description of totalitarian organizations.
>
>If you were less criptic, I may even understant what it is that you are
>speaking about, Zinj. Make a summary or give an URL.
OK; I don't know how well known it is outside Enmglish-language
countries, but the book is called "1984" and it is by an author
who always writes under the nom de plume George Orwell (his real
name was Eric Blair). This is the person shose idea Hubbard was
plagiarising, and actually put into effect, when he said the real
way to extract money from chumps was to found a new religion.
Read the book. It is quite a good read.