AMBER, Trumps and Sorcery
hnrse...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
This part is only for the Amber E-Mail group.
---------------------------------------------
Hey guys, what is with this no Amber stuff on the newsnet? How do you
expect to get any new subscribers if we don't put arguements where
people can see them.
Since I raised a complaint about nothing being here, I guess I had better
start a discussion. Those on the Amber E-Mail list please forgive the
duplication. IMHO, the Amber magic system is really bad, a friend and I
are working on an ARS Magica adaptation to the magic system, and I was
wondering if there is any precedent in the novels for spontaneous magic?
Does anyone know? I would also like to hear what anyone has to say about
the ways in which they are dealing with magic.
On a somewhat unrelated subject, I missed the discussion on Trump.
The rulebook questions whether or not Trump is its own power. In the second
series though, Zelazny has Merlin saying that Trumps must be backed by
either Pattern or Logrus. What is the general opinion out there. The second
series also says that shadow sorcerers are therefore unable to make Trump,
at least not good ones. The trump that they make would also reflect the
Pattern's Price from the Broken Pattern description. There would be some
chance for the Trump to work, some chance to end up in Limbo, some chance for
destruction, and some chance for simple failure. What are other people's
thoughts on this?
Thes...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Reece, son of Eric of Amber
Camille le Monies de Sagazan
> duplication. IMHO, the Amber magic system is really bad, a friend and I
> are working on an ARS Magica adaptation to the magic system, and I was
> wondering if there is any precedent in the novels for spontaneous magic?
> Does anyone know? I would also like to hear what anyone has to say about
> the ways in which they are dealing with magic.
Well, it seems that during the second series, Merlin goes from makimg
his spells in advance to "drawing the energy directly from the Logrus"
(an exhausting and aesthetically discussable exercise), and finally
draws the energy from the "aiguillier" (sorry, I've only read the
french version, it's the ring you know...). Could this mean that some
versions of "Advanced Sorcery" allow the making of spell by tapping
directly into a power.
I find the AMBER sorcery system not so bad. The system of
"micro-spells" is appealing. It may be possible to adapt "Creo,
Intellego, etc..." into micro-spells.
--
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Mutant for Hire
>Since I raised a complaint about nothing being here, I guess I had better
>start a discussion. Those on the Amber E-Mail list please forgive the
>duplication. IMHO, the Amber magic system is really bad, a friend and I
>are working on an ARS Magica adaptation to the magic system, and I was
>wondering if there is any precedent in the novels for spontaneous magic?
>Does anyone know? I would also like to hear what anyone has to say about
>the ways in which they are dealing with magic.
I tried to kludge together some stuff, rehacking the original powers
and such (someday I may repost it) and giving a different feel to the
powers. The big problem is the fact that all the Amber stats are
relative rather than absolute, and the fact that Amber has no real skills.
The theory behind my system was that there are various categories of
powers. Scrying, movement, alteration, transmutation, creation/destruction.
The idea was that Pattern magicians found the difficulty increasing
from first to last. Logrus magicians found the difficulty reversed. Thus
Amberite magicians were people skilled at finding out information and
moving things around Shadow. Logrus magicians created all sorts of
spectacular effects and could warp and alter things easily, but were
weak on the information magics.
There is some duplication of effect, by totally different routes.
Amberites can cast simple spells to move them through Shadow or
just walk it. Logrus initiates have to create Black Threads, burn
little paths through Shadow to travel.
I also wanted increased energy drain effects for Amberite magicians,
as the Logrus functions as a power source. Since information is more
useful than blowing things up in a properly handled Amber campaign
this functions as a balance. Problem is how to implement it in game
mechanics.
> On a somewhat unrelated subject, I missed the discussion on Trump.
>The rulebook questions whether or not Trump is its own power. In the second
>series though, Zelazny has Merlin saying that Trumps must be backed by
>either Pattern or Logrus. What is the general opinion out there. The second
>series also says that shadow sorcerers are therefore unable to make Trump,
>at least not good ones. The trump that they make would also reflect the
>Pattern's Price from the Broken Pattern description. There would be some
>chance for the Trump to work, some chance to end up in Limbo, some chance for
>destruction, and some chance for simple failure. What are other people's
>thoughts on this?
I think its perfectly reasonable. The only thing I ever had a problem with
are Logrus tendrils, since they go against my philosophical view of how
the Pattern and Logrus powers work. Logrus is chaotic, and doesn't deal
with the scanning and movement powers
--
Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Synchronicity Daemon, Priest of Shub-Internet
Disclaimer: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but flames are just ignored
mfte...@phoenix.princeton.edu mfte...@pucc.bitnet anonym...@charcoal.com
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
Mark Urbin
>>>>>> On 23 Nov 93 16:08:09 CDT, hnrse...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu said:
>Well, it seems that during the second series, Merlin goes from makimg
>his spells in advance to "drawing the energy directly from the Logrus"
>(an exhausting and aesthetically discussable exercise), and finally
>draws the energy from the "aiguillier"
>(sorry, I've only read the
>french version, it's the ring you know...). Could this mean that some
>versions of "Advanced Sorcery" allow the making of spell by tapping
>directly into a power.
has connections to power sources out in shadow. Each spoke on the wheel being
a micro portal to a seperate power source. It didn't draw from Logrus or
Pattern, so those entities could not shut off it's power. I remember a
reference to time it would take to make one...many centuries. Damn few could
make the bloody things too. You would have to be able to travel in shadow
(just to get to the power sources) and cast spells capable of peircing shadow
(to set up the microgates). The smart sorcerer would also have protections
for the power sources.
There is a great player quest for you! Search out and destroy Spikard
powersources!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin -- ftp Software, Inc. North Andover, MA These opinions are mine.
"When you have an individual that is committed to killing someone else,
you can`t expect a restraining order or the police to provide 24-hour
protection." -- Chicopee, MA District Attorney William Bennett 9/8/93
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donald Bachman
Mutant for Hire <mfte...@tucson.Princeton.EDU> wrote:
>In article <1993Nov23.1...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, hnrse...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>
>>The rulebook questions whether or not Trump is its own power. In the second
>>series though, Zelazny has Merlin saying that Trumps must be backed by
>>either Pattern or Logrus. What is the general opinion out there. The second
>>series also says that shadow sorcerers are therefore unable to make Trump,
>>at least not good ones. The trump that they make would also reflect the
>>Pattern's Price from the Broken Pattern description. There would be some
>>chance for the Trump to work, some chance to end up in Limbo, some chance for
>>destruction, and some chance for simple failure. What are other people's
>>thoughts on this?
>
>are Logrus tendrils, since they go against my philosophical view of how
>the Pattern and Logrus powers work. Logrus is chaotic, and doesn't deal
>with the scanning and movement powers
I don't dare ask how the fact that Logrus is chaotic means that
one shouldn't be able to scan/move via it. A perfectly reasonable way
to find something in a collection of things is to pick an item at random,
check to see if it matches what you are looking for, if not, discard and
pick again, if so, done. Explains the time element in using Logrus to
shift through reality to find something.
J.P.Brannan
> start a discussion. Those on the Amber E-Mail list please forgive the
> duplication. IMHO, the Amber magic system is really bad, a friend and I
> are working on an ARS Magica adaptation to the magic system, and I was
> wondering if there is any precedent in the novels for spontaneous magic?
> Does anyone know? I would also like to hear what anyone has to say about
> the ways in which they are dealing with magic.
What Amber email list (respond via email if I'm bringing up an old topic
here.)?
To respond to the post, I do allow a more or less instantaneous version of
sorcery in my campaign. Basically, if you practice a particular type of
class of spells long enough, have enough psyche, and have a major power
(Pattern or Logrus, although I also count Trump as a major power for other
purposes), than you can do some things just about instantaneously. For
about 40 points. No one in my game has really gotten to the point where
they want to take this just yet (but I do have a 6-way tie for rank 1.5 in
warfare). In general I like the felxibility of the magic system, but I do
not like the lack of specifics on how long lynchpins take. I disagree with
some GM's I've played with who say 1 lynchpin = 5 minutes, but I still
believe melee and power words are quicker.
On the topic of spikards and sorcery, I haven't actually used any with PC's
yet, but I have them used as 'spell processors' which make spell casting
take on the order of minutes instead of on the order of hours at a time for
the casting. I also use them for teleportation inter-shadow, based on what
I saw it do in the books.
This is all my opinion, of course, but it seems to be working so far
(campaign is entering its second year). Part of the reason it works so well
may be the relatively quantative-less approach I take to Amber, e.g. since
stats are relative rather than absolute, I award advancement in terms of
ranks rather than character points. Admittedly, there is room for error in
this system, as the GM's methods cannot be exactly set down in a rules
book, but again, it has been working so far.
Now, I will ask a question, how do GM's out there deal with the thrid
generation? (I mean of course, the kids of PC's)? I'm just curious.....
-J.P.