Colleges and Universities--a short guide
Yeechang Lee
There are, according to one estimate, 1600 institutions of higher
learning in the United States. Unlike other nations, many of
America's colleges and universities are privately run in addition to
the government-supported schools. Since public schools often have
tuitions far lower than their private counterparts, thus consequently
impacting financial aid, the question of how to tell public and
private schools apart is an important one. For that matter, what's
with the whole "college" vs. "university" thing, anyway? It's all
easy, if you keep some simple principles in mind.
*) A _college_ does not offer degrees beyond the BA/BS level.
Examples: Boston College, Dartmouth College, Bryn Mawr
College, The College of William and Mary
*) A _university_[1] does offer degrees beyond the BA/BS level. These
usually include law, medicine, and business degrees.
Example: Princeton University
*) An _institute_ offers vocational-technical degrees. They may be
public or private (see below).
Examples: Massachusetts Institute of Technology, California
Institute of Technology, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute,
California Polytechnic Institute
*) A college or university named after a _city_ is a public school
operated by that city.
Examples: University of Chicago, New York University[2],
Boston University, Boston College
*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
operated by that state.
Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
*) A college or university named after a _person_ is a private
institution.
Examples: Truman State University (MO), Thomas Edison State
College (NJ), Rutgers University, The College of William and Mary
I hope this has been instructive and useful.
[1] Leland Stanford Junior University (CA) is currently attempting to
meet US Department of Education guidelines for qualifying as an
university. This status is expected to be reached as of the 1998-1999
school year.
[2] New York University is operated by the City and the State of New
York in tandem.
--
http://www.columbia.edu/~ylee/
Yeechang Lee
catherine schlesinger
Yeechang Lee (yl...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: *) A college or university named after a _city_ is a public school
: operated by that city.
: Examples: University of Chicago, New York University[2],
: Boston University, Boston College
NYU and Boston College are both private institutions. In fact Boston
University is affilated with the Roman Catholic Church.
: *) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
: operated by that state.
: Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
Ummm... no. Penn is a *private* *Ivy League* university.
: *) A college or university named after a _person_ is a private
: institution.
: Examples: Truman State University (MO), Thomas Edison State
: College (NJ), Rutgers University, The College of William and Mary
Rutgers University is the New Jersey State system... same as SUNY or
UC.
: I hope this has been instructive and useful.
Actually, it hasn't been.
Please check your facts.
: [1] Leland Stanford Junior University (CA) is currently attempting to
: meet US Department of Education guidelines for qualifying as an
: university. This status is expected to be reached as of the 1998-1999
: school year.
: [2] New York University is operated by the City and the State of New
: York in tandem.
: --
: http://www.columbia.edu/~ylee/
--
Catherine Schlesinger
Skidmore College
Saratoga Springs, NY
"So listen here professor with your head in the clouds
it's often kind of useful to get lost in a crowd
so keep your universities, i don't give a damn
for better or for worse it is the way that i am"
-------------------
End of network mail
Dodge Johnson
Hah! Nice takeoff!!
In article <slrn5k16b...@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>, yl...@columbia.edu
(Yeechang Lee) wrote:
:There are, according to one estimate, 1600 institutions of higher
:learning in the United States. Unlike other nations, many of
:America's colleges and universities are privately run in addition to
:the government-supported schools. Since public schools often have
:tuitions far lower than their private counterparts, thus consequently
:impacting financial aid, the question of how to tell public and
:private schools apart is an important one. For that matter, what's
:with the whole "college" vs. "university" thing, anyway? It's all
:easy, if you keep some simple principles in mind.
:
:*) A _college_ does not offer degrees beyond the BA/BS level.
: Examples: Boston College, Dartmouth College, Bryn Mawr
: College, The College of William and Mary
:
:*) A _university_[1] does offer degrees beyond the BA/BS level. These
:usually include law, medicine, and business degrees.
: Example: Princeton University
:
:*) An _institute_ offers vocational-technical degrees. They may be
:public or private (see below).
: Examples: Massachusetts Institute of Technology, California
: Institute of Technology, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute,
: California Polytechnic Institute
:
:*) A college or university named after a _city_ is a public school
:operated by that city.
: Examples: University of Chicago, New York University[2],
: Boston University, Boston College
:
:*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
:operated by that state.
: Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
: Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
:
:*) A college or university named after a _person_ is a private
:institution.
: Examples: Truman State University (MO), Thomas Edison State
: College (NJ), Rutgers University, The College of William and Mary
:
:I hope this has been instructive and useful.
:
:[1] Leland Stanford Junior University (CA) is currently attempting to
Dodge Johnson
Pete White
Yeechang Lee <yl...@columbia.edu> wrote in article
<slrn5k16b...@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>...
> *) A college or university named after a _city_ is a public school
> operated by that city.
> Examples: University of Chicago, New York University[2],
> Boston University, Boston College
That is FALSE. While it may be true in some cases, they schools you mention
here are ALL privately funded.
> *) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> operated by that state.
> Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
That is almost always true. The University of Pennsylvania is a privately
funded school.
> *) A college or university named after a _person_ is a private
> institution.
> Examples: Truman State University (MO), Thomas Edison State
> College (NJ), Rutgers University, The College of William and Mary
Again, this is just not true. While I'm not certain about Edison or Truman
State. Rutgers and William & Mary are both publically funded.
Pete White - pw...@netlabs.net
Lisa Marie Haro
You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford. You also
forgot the whole California System. The UC system is not public. It is
essentially a private university system where tuition fees are paid. The
Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly funded. Except for out of state
residents, we don't pay tuition at all.
So get some of your facts straight.
Lisa
> :*) A _college_ does not offer degrees beyond the BA/BS level.
> : Examples: Boston College, Dartmouth College, Bryn Mawr
> : College, The College of William and Mary
> :
> :*) A _university_[1] does offer degrees beyond the BA/BS level. These
> :usually include law, medicine, and business degrees.
> : Example: Princeton University
> :
> :*) An _institute_ offers vocational-technical degrees. They may be
> :public or private (see below).
> : Examples: Massachusetts Institute of Technology, California
> : Institute of Technology, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute,
> : California Polytechnic Institute
Um....excuse me...but the California Polytechnics are part of the CSU
system. I should know...I got to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. We are a 100%
fully funded state school. We haven't been a "vocational school since
probably the 1920s.
> :*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> :
jcl...@mail.wm.edu
> > *) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> > operated by that state.
> > Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> > Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
>
> funded school.
>
> > *) A college or university named after a _person_ is a private
> > institution.
> > Examples: Truman State University (MO), Thomas Edison State
> > College (NJ), Rutgers University, The College of William and Mary
>
> Again, this is just not true. While I'm not certain about Edison or Truman
> State. Rutgers and William & Mary are both publically funded.
>
Very perceptive on your part, Peter. I just wanted to point out that
while Peter is technically correct in saying that William and Mary is
publically supported (albeit woefully), this support comes not from the
Commonwealth of Virginia, but rather from the British Royal Family.
Cheers,
Josh LaGrange
The College of William and Mary '97
Kyle R. Rose
Two words for everyone who's taking Yeechang's post seriously:
"April Fools."
--
Kyle R. Rose kr...@cornell.edu
Cornell University '98 http://crypt.resnet.cornell.edu/~krose/
Department of Computer Science
Yukon Yale
Yeechang Lee (yl...@columbia.edu) wrote:
This was amusing.
Timothy Wu
NYU Arts & Science, Chemistry/Mathematics, 1999
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the part controlled by the City of New York and founded
in 1754. In 1831, the Columbia Division broke off and formed a new school
in Harlem. In 1847, the City University Division broke off the Columbia
Division, since renamed King's College, and moved to 138th Street and
Convent Avenue and called itself the College of the City of New York, or
in some parts of Missouri, the City College of New York. The
administrators of both NYU and Columbia warned the City University people
that they would soon regret their secession from the "League." Now look
at the City University.
Gregory Gagliardi
>NYU and Boston College are both private institutions. In fact Boston
>University is affilated with the Roman Catholic Church.
BC is affiliated with the church -- not BU.
But I'll just assume that's a typo. :)
Gregory Gagliardi
>*) A _college_ does not offer degrees beyond the BA/BS level.
> Examples: Boston College, Dartmouth College, Bryn Mawr
Boston College is a university...
However, it can not change its name because there is already a Boston
University.
>*) A college or university named after a _city_ is a public school
>operated by that city.
> Examples: University of Chicago, New York University[2],
> Boston University, Boston College
All four of those are not only private schools -- but are also among
the most expensive universities in the nation.
>*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
>operated by that state.
> Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
If you go to Columbia, I'd think that you'd know that UPenn is a
private (and Ivy League) school.
>*) A college or university named after a _person_ is a private
>institution.
> Examples: Truman State University (MO), Thomas Edison State
> College (NJ), Rutgers University, The College of William and Mary
Hello?
All four of those are public schools... In fact, most schools which
contain the word "State" are public.
Marcela C. Musgrove
Kyle R. Rose wrote:
>
> Two words for everyone who's taking Yeechang's post seriously:
>
> "April Fools."
GROAN!!!!
geez--no wonder he got everything wrong
thanks for pointing that out to us:)
jcl...@mail.wm.edu
Very perceptive on your part, Geregory. I just
wanted to point out that
while Peter is technically correct in saying that
William and Mary is
publically supported (albeit woefully), this
support comes not from the
Commonwealth of Virginia, but rather from the
British Royal Family.
Cheers,
Josh LaGrange
The College of William and Mary '97
P.S. Does anyone else wonder what these kids are
smoking? Or is a sense of humor no longer required
for admission to soc.college.admissions?
Gregory Gagliardi
>>All four of those are not only private schools -- but are also among
>>the most expensive universities in the nation.
>They're only expensive because of budget cutbacks in these cities. In
>Chicago, for example, Mayor Daley is trying to boost revenue by hiking
>tuition at the University of Chicago.
Are you sure?
Private schools have nothing to do with the city usually. I don't
think Daley would have any say about the tuition of U of Chicago.
Private schools set their own tuitions, regardless of where they are
located.
>>>*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
>>>operated by that state.
>>> Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
>>> Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
>>
>>If you go to Columbia, I'd think that you'd know that UPenn is a
>>private (and Ivy League) school.
>Don't forget their great football team and Coach Paterno. They had a
>pretty good recruiting year; things should be exciting in State College
>next fall.
UPenn and Penn State are too COMPLETELY different schools.
Penn State is a large public university. This is the school with
Paterno.
UPenn is a private, Ivy League school. It was founded by Ben
Franklin, and it's located in Philadelphia.
Onur Sarisaban
On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Gregory Gagliardi wrote:
> >>>*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> >>>operated by that state.
> >>> Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> >>> Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
> >>
> >>If you go to Columbia, I'd think that you'd know that UPenn is a
> >>private (and Ivy League) school.
>
> >Don't forget their great football team and Coach Paterno. They had a
> >pretty good recruiting year; things should be exciting in State College
> >next fall.
>
> UPenn and Penn State are too COMPLETELY different schools.
> Penn State is a large public university. This is the school with
> Paterno.
>
> UPenn is a private, Ivy League school. It was founded by Ben
> Franklin, and it's located in Philadelphia.
>
As Kyle pointed out, Yeechang Lee was JOKING!!!(It was April 1st). Please
read the other responses to a post before you unleash your fury on the
rest of us...
_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/
_/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/
_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/
vr
hello? why are you people replying to this thread? it was a joke,
remember?!
vasant
Lisa Marie Haro
On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Justin Mulaire wrote:
> Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
> >
> > You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
> > Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
> > university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford. You also
> > forgot the whole California System. The UC system is not public. It is
> > essentially a private university system where tuition fees are paid. The
> > Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly funded. Except for out of state
> > residents, we don't pay tuition at all.
> >
> > So get some of your facts straight.
>
> People who live in glass houses...
>
>
> -JVM
>
>
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
R. Chris Heck
Joseph G. Adams (jga...@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: Gregory Gagliardi <gagl...@cleo.bc.edu> wrote:
: >>*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
: >>operated by that state.
: >> Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
: >> Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
: >
: >If you go to Columbia, I'd think that you'd know that UPenn is a
: >private (and Ivy League) school.
: Don't forget their great football team and Coach Paterno. They had a
: pretty good recruiting year; things should be exciting in State College
: next fall.
However, what will happen to the current law school now that they're
merging with Dickinson; will they be the first university to have two
law schools?
: --
: Joseph G. Adams
: Stanford Law School, 3L
: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jgadams/
--
R. Chris Heck | I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short
Amherst College '97 | one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God
U of Chicago | granted it. - Voltaire
Law School '00 |
catherine schlesinger
Onur Sarisaban (os...@cunix.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
: On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Gregory Gagliardi wrote:
(snip post that we've all seen too much of)
: As Kyle pointed out, Yeechang Lee was JOKING!!!(It was April 1st). Please
: read the other responses to a post before you unleash your fury on the
: rest of us...
The problem with a joke like this is that some people might be reading
newsgroups like this for advice on the college search process.
Deceptive information provided as a "public service" is wrong. The
college search is hard enough for most people. They don't need any
more advice from people pretending to be in the know, who are wrong.
Let's all be grownups, or find another group to post stupidity in.
(snip long annyoing .sig)
Keith Baird
Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
> You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
> Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
> university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford. You also
> forgot the whole California System. The UC system is not public. It is
> essentially a private university system where tuition fees are paid. The
> Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly funded. Except for out of state
> residents, we don't pay tuition at all.
>
> So get some of your facts straight.
On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Justin Mulaire wrote:
> People who live in glass houses...
Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
> What the hell is that supposed to mean?
I think he didn't realize you were kidding. Eh, you were,
weren't you?
--/<eith
Onur Sarisaban
On 3 Apr 1997, catherine schlesinger wrote:
> Onur Sarisaban (os...@cunix.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
> : On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Gregory Gagliardi wrote:
>
> (snip post that we've all seen too much of)
>
> : As Kyle pointed out, Yeechang Lee was JOKING!!!(It was April 1st). Please
> : read the other responses to a post before you unleash your fury on the
> : rest of us...
>
> The problem with a joke like this is that some people might be reading
> newsgroups like this for advice on the college search process.
> Deceptive information provided as a "public service" is wrong. The
> college search is hard enough for most people. They don't need any
> more advice from people pretending to be in the know, who are wrong.
> Let's all be grownups, or find another group to post stupidity in.
>
> (snip long annyoing .sig)
Have you EVER heard of April Fools??? Y. Lee was not
pretending to be in the know when he was wrong, he was
simply joking .Besides, it was pointed out that Y. Lee's post was a
joke,and anyone who read the responses would notice that.Furtermore, I
doubt that any sensible person would rely on a post in a newsgroup to make
his/her college decision. Lighten up!!
(snip the long annoying .sig)
Lisa Marie Haro
Kidding about what? Lisa
Lisa Marie Haro
On 2 Apr 1997, Justin V. Mulaire wrote:
> Though admittedly some people simply missed the point of the original post
> (which was intended to be humorous), it would have been helpful if the original
> post did not have truthful information sprinkled in among the jokes--it tends
> to make it less clear that the post is insincere.
>
> yl...@columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) wrote:
>
> >*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> >operated by that state.
> > Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> These *are* public universities.
>
> -JVM
>
>
>
No...USC is a private university.
catherine schlesinger
Onur Sarisaban (os...@cunix.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
: On 3 Apr 1997, catherine schlesinger wrote:
: > Onur Sarisaban (os...@cunix.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
: > : On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Gregory Gagliardi wrote:
: >
: > (snip post that we've all seen too much of)
: >
: > : As Kyle pointed out, Yeechang Lee was JOKING!!!(It was April 1st). Please
: > : read the other responses to a post before you unleash your fury on the
: > : rest of us...
: >
: > The problem with a joke like this is that some people might be reading
: > newsgroups like this for advice on the college search process.
: > Deceptive information provided as a "public service" is wrong. The
: > college search is hard enough for most people. They don't need any
: > more advice from people pretending to be in the know, who are wrong.
: > Let's all be grownups, or find another group to post stupidity in.
: >
: > (snip long annyoing .sig)
: Have you EVER heard of April Fools??? Y. Lee was not
: pretending to be in the know when he was wrong, he was
: simply joking .Besides, it was pointed out that Y. Lee's post was a
: joke,and anyone who read the responses would notice that.Furtermore, I
: doubt that any sensible person would rely on a post in a newsgroup to make
: his/her college decision. Lighten up!!
: (snip the long annoying .sig)
:
(once again snip long annoying .sig)
Actually, I have heard of April Fools... it happens to be my b-day.
take that as you will....
The fact of the matter is, there are groups that this was posted to
(such as the college admissions news group) that may be used by people
to collect legitimate information about colleges and universities that
they are interested in applying too... When i was doing the admissions
thing a few years ago, i used internet resources as well as the usual
printed viewbooks and guide books.
It was a more or less funny joke, but for the fact that i don't seem
to be alone in taking it seriously. it was not posted in a
tounge-in-cheek manner, it was presented as a guide to college
terminology.
Jim Coffey
catherine schlesinger, sparing no expense, chose to grace us with:
>
>It was a more or less funny joke, but for the fact that i don't seem
>to be alone in taking it seriously.
(proving once again it's always September, soemwhere on the net)
Of course, every word of the original post was true and accurate.
>Catherine Schlesinger
(excessive .sig snipped0
William Wei-Lun Chen
Yeechang Lee (yl...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: *) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
: operated by that state.
: Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
: Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
Hey, it looks like Southern California became a state..
Yeechang Lee
Justin Mulaire wrote:
> Though admittedly some people simply missed the point of the
> original post (which was intended to be humorous), it would have
> been helpful if the original post did not have truthful information
> sprinkled in among the jokes--it tends to make it less clear that
> the post is insincere.
> >*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> >operated by that state.
> > Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> These *are* public universities.
I was wondering when someone would notice those.
Take a look at <URL:http://www.uvm.edu/aboutuvm/Mission.html> and
<URL:http://www.psu.edu/ur/PROFILE/Commonwealth.html>.
Yeechang "Thank you, thank you" Lee
--
http://www.columbia.edu/~ylee/
Dylan F. Alexander
In article <5i1vn6$c...@saims.skidmore.edu>, csch...@saims.skidmore.edu
(catherine schlesinger) wrote:
}The fact of the matter is, there are groups that this was posted to
}(such as the college admissions news group) that may be used by people
}to collect legitimate information about colleges and universities that
}they are interested in applying too... When i was doing the admissions
}thing a few years ago, i used internet resources as well as the usual
}printed viewbooks and guide books.
}
}It was a more or less funny joke, but for the fact that i don't seem
}to be alone in taking it seriously. it was not posted in a
}tounge-in-cheek manner, it was presented as a guide to college
}terminology.
I submit that anyone who would be taken in by this doesn't belong in college.
--
Dylan Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu
jcl...@mail.wm.edu
Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
>
> On 2 Apr 1997, Justin V. Mulaire wrote:
>
> > Though admittedly some people simply missed the point of the original post
> > (which was intended to be humorous), it would have been helpful if the original
> > post did not have truthful information sprinkled in among the jokes--it tends
> > to make it less clear that the post is insincere.
> >
> >
> > >*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> > >operated by that state.
> > > Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > These *are* public universities.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> No...USC is a private university.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if a person is
^^^^^^
brain-dead, or simply doesn't know when to let it
^^
end.
Robbie Westmoreland
+On 2 Apr 1997, Justin V. Mulaire wrote:
+
+> Though admittedly some people simply missed the point of the original post
+> (which was intended to be humorous), it would have been helpful if the original
+> post did not have truthful information sprinkled in among the jokes--it tends
+> to make it less clear that the post is insincere.
+>
+> yl...@columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) wrote:
+>
+> >*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
+> >operated by that state.
+> > Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
+> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+> > Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
+> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+>
+> These *are* public universities.
+>
In article <Pine.A32.3.91.970403...@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu>,+No...USC is a private university.
Is this why they call it Cal Poly Slow?
I mean, really. I'll admit that I was taken in initially, but the post
made *much* more sense when the joke was pointed out.
Anyway, followups set to newsgroups *other than* soc.college.admissions.
--
Robbie Westmoreland, Star-bellied Geek rob...@phoenix.net
http://www.phoenix.net/~robbiew/ Robbie_We...@txs.uscourts.gov
Maxims are no substitute for rational thought, I always say.
Dave Grossman
Lisa Marie Haro (lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu) wrote:
: On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, Keith Baird wrote:
: > Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
: > > You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
: > > Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
: > > university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford. You also
: > > forgot the whole California System. The UC system is not public. It is
: > > essentially a private university system where tuition fees are paid. The
: > > Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly funded. Except for out of state
: > > residents, we don't pay tuition at all.
: > >
: > > So get some of your facts straight.
: >
: > On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Justin Mulaire wrote:
: > > People who live in glass houses...
: Kidding about what? Lisa
Umm, you are aware that "public" does not necessarily mean "free", right?
Public often means "publicly funded."
For example, all the colleges and universities in the SUNY (State
University of New York) are "public", but unless you recieve financial
aid, you do pay tuition to all of them. You pay more out of state, but
you still pay quite a few K in state)
It is about 1/4 the cost of private Universities.... but far from free.
And is definitively "public"
-Dave
--
Dave Grossman | "Life's short...
Geneseo State University| Play pinball"
de...@geneseo.edu | "It has to warm up,
tf...@j51.com | SO IT CAN KILL YOU!" -TAF
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WWW: http://www.j51.com/~tfth -- pinball, music, and more.
World Pinball Directory: http://www.j51.com/~tfth/worldpin.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa Marie Haro
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> -JVM
> >>
> >>
> >What the hell is that supposed to mean?
>
> It means that before you criticize the original post for not having its "facts
> straight," you should get you own facts straight. You claimed that "the UC
> system is not public," which is completely false (and more obviously so than
> that USC is private).
>
> -JVM
>
>
>
The UC system is public in the sense of the word...but it charges a
tuition for all students unlike the CSU system which is 100% public. And
USC IS A PRIVATE UNIVERSITY. I should know...I have friends who go
there. And if it was public...why isn't it included in the UC system?
Why does it cost 20,000 dollars to go there? Why is it listed as a
private school?
I most certainly have my facts straight. Yes i understand the posting
was meant to be a joke...but according to all of my counselors some of
the facts were incorrect and I have the proof to show.
Lisa
Lisa Marie Haro
> In article <Pine.A32.3.91.970403...@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu>,
> Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
> +No...USC is a private university.
>
> Is this why they call it Cal Poly Slow?
> The SLO life is awesome....beaches, mountains and lakes all within
minutes! You might try to relax a bit like us!
> I mean, really. I'll admit that I was taken in initially, but the post
> made *much* more sense when the joke was pointed out.
Indeed it did.
Lisa Marie Haro
On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, Keith Baird wrote:
> Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
> > You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
> > Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
> > university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford. You also
> > forgot the whole California System. The UC system is not public. It is
> > essentially a private university system where tuition fees are paid. The
> > Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly funded. Except for out of state
> > residents, we don't pay tuition at all.
> >
> > So get some of your facts straight.
>
>
> On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Justin Mulaire wrote:
> > People who live in glass houses...
>
>
> Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
> > What the hell is that supposed to mean?
>
>
> I think he didn't realize you were kidding. Eh, you were,
> weren't you?
>
> --/<eith
>
>
About what?
Lisa Marie Haro
On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 jcl...@mail.wm.edu wrote:
> Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
> >
> > > >*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> > > >operated by that state.
> > > > Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >
> > > These *are* public universities.
> > >
> > > -JVM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > No...USC is a private university.
>
> Sometimes it's hard to tell if a person is
> ^^^^^^
> brain-dead, or simply doesn't know when to let it
> ^^
> end.
>
> Josh LaGrange
> The College of William and Mary
>
>
What the heck does that mean? Are you implying that I am brain dead? I
certainly am not. I know that the original post was meant to be a joke.
But you have to be very careful to mess with college minds. We are very
sensitive to school and school related issues. Especially the
correctness of information.
Lisa
Jim Coffey
Lisa Marie Haro, sparing no expense, chose to grace us with:
>But you have to be very careful to mess with college minds.Nha, it's very easy
to mess with college minds. Look at how many people didn't realize Joe paterno
coached at the University of Pennsylvania, or that Stanford was in the Ivy
League. Some, no doubt, still think that Harvard is a private school.
Enoch S. Huang
Lisa Marie Haro (lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu) wrote:
: The UC system is public in the sense of the word...but it charges a
: tuition for all students unlike the CSU system which is 100% public. And
: USC IS A PRIVATE UNIVERSITY. I should know...I have friends who go
: there. And if it was public...why isn't it included in the UC system?
: Why does it cost 20,000 dollars to go there? Why is it listed as a
: private school?
: I most certainly have my facts straight. Yes i understand the posting
: was meant to be a joke...but according to all of my counselors some of
: the facts were incorrect and I have the proof to show.
: Lisa
So, if you understand the posting was meant to be a joke, then why are you
belligerently asserting that the "facts" are incorrect? Please enlighten
me.
-- Enoch
--
Enoch S. Huang, Ph.D.
esh...@hyper.stanford.edu
jcl...@mail.wm.edu
Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
>
> On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 jcl...@mail.wm.edu wrote:
>
> > Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
> > >
> > > > >*) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
> > > > >operated by that state.
> > > > > Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
> > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > > Pennsylvania State University, University of Southern California
> > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > >
> > > > These *are* public universities.
> > > >
> > > > -JVM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > No...USC is a private university.
> >
> > Sometimes it's hard to tell if a person is
> > ^^^^^^
> > brain-dead, or simply doesn't know when to let it
> > ^^
> > end.
> >
> > Josh LaGrange
> > The College of William and Mary
> >
> >
> What the heck does that mean? Are you implying that I am brain dead? I
> certainly am not.
(snip)
Well, Lisa, here it is, nice and slow.
JVM, whoever that is, underlined PSU and UVM, then wrote "these are public
^^^ ^^^
universities." He is correct. Penn State and U. Vermont are public
universities. For some reason, you decided to respond with, "No...USC is a
private university." Duh. That's why he didn't underline USC, only (once
again) Penn State and UVM. Sorry for the condescending tone, but I don't
have much patience for people who respond to posts without even reading them.
Aven
On Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:51:38 -0800, Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu>
wrote:
:You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
:Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
:university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford. You also
:forgot the whole California System. The UC system is not public. It is
:essentially a private university system where tuition fees are paid. The
:Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly funded. Except for out of state
:residents, we don't pay tuition at all.
:
:So get some of your facts straight.
:
:Lisa
:
:
hi there,
I graduated from a UC school, plus I'm currently attending a CSU school, so I
have a bit of experience with both. Both the UC (University of California) and
CSU(California State University) schools are public schools. I pay tuition at
both schools, with UC being more expensive than CSU.
Public universities in California used to be tuition-less, that's what it used
to mean, but people like Wilson decided to start charging students a small
tuition fee. Since its a public school the tuition we pay is a fraction of what
the real tuition would be if it were a private school with the rest of the tab
being picked up by the public through taxes etc.
Oh, USC (University of Southern California) is a private school, you're
definitely right about that.
also, the original poster made another mistake, he listed Cal Poly as an
institute that only gives vocational degrees. That's not true, they give B.S.
degrees as well.
Lisa Marie Haro
> > > Sometimes it's hard to tell if a person is
> > > ^^^^^^
> > > brain-dead, or simply doesn't know when to let it
> > > ^^
> > > end.
> > >
> > > Josh LaGrange
> > > The College of William and Mary
> > >
> > >
> > What the heck does that mean? Are you implying that I am brain dead? I
> > certainly am not.
>
> (snip)
>
> Well, Lisa, here it is, nice and slow.
> JVM, whoever that is, underlined PSU and UVM, then wrote "these are public
> ^^^ ^^^
> universities." He is correct. Penn State and U. Vermont are public
> universities. For some reason, you decided to respond with, "No...USC is a
> private university." Duh. That's why he didn't underline USC, only (once
> again) Penn State and UVM. Sorry for the condescending tone, but I don't
> have much patience for people who respond to posts without even reading them.
>
> Josh LaGrange
> The College of William and Mary
>
>
Josh...
I am not stupid. But in another post he included USC in his
description. I thoroughly read all posts. Apology accept for the
comment about condescending tone.
LIsa
Lisa Marie Haro
>
> So, if you understand the posting was meant to be a joke, then why are you
> belligerently asserting that the "facts" are incorrect? Please enlighten
> me.
>
> -- Enoch
>
> --
> Enoch S. Huang, Ph.D.
> esh...@hyper.stanford.edu
>
>
Well Dr. Huang,
I happen to be a college student. And when it comes to subjects such as
admissions and college classifications whether they are public or not.
And when my particular school is included with an incorrect fact, that
bothers me a great deal. This is a college newsgroup...and there are
future college students browsing the group, who may not have picked up on
the fact that this post was a joke. I didn't even realize it was april
fools day! In fact I responded to this post the day after that. So it
was my fault for not knowning that was a joke. But then I understood
that it was. But that is no reasons for people making slashing remarks
about somebody who obviously doesn't believe it is a joke. It isn't fair
to joke about things like college. College is very important for a great
number of us young people. And admission information isn't something to
be treated as a joke. College is already hard enough to get into. Don't
make future students turn down a school because they feel that it is out
of their league.
LIsa
Lisa Marie Haro
Well...actually I knew that Joe Paterno coached at U of Penn. And that
STanford is Ivy League. I am a hard mind to mess with. I use critical
thinking skills very well. I don't liked to be pushed around...nor do I
let people push me around....such as people like you.
Lisa
Jim Coffey
Lisa Marie Haro, sparing no expense, chose to grace us with:
>
>This is a college newsgroup...and there are
>future college students browsing the group, who may not have picked up on
>the fact that this post was a joke.
Proving, once again, it is always September somewhere on USENET.
>But that is no reasons for people making slashing remarks
>about somebody who obviously doesn't believe it is a joke.
The clueless always get sacrificed.
>It isn't fair
>to joke about things like college.
In many ways, college is a joke. At any rate, an ability to laugh at absurdity
is an important trait, one that will help throughout life. Of course, USENET,
being USENET, isn't about fairness.
>College is very important for a great
>number of us young people. And admission information isn't something to
>be treated as a joke. College is already hard enough to get into. Don't
>make future students turn down a school because they feel that it is out
>of their league.
They can, of course, get information about any league from the NCAA. If they
want to go to a Big Ten School, there's Michigan, Ohio State, The University of
Pennsylvania et al. The IVY League has Hrvard, Yale, Duke, Brown, Stanford,
Cornell (The only state school in it) and MIT. If they want to be out of a
league, there are many independents, including Notre Dame, Rush, and Alabama.
Kyle R. Rose
Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 1997, Jim Coffey wrote:
> Lisa Marie Haro, sparing no expense, chose to grace us with:
>
> >But you have to be very careful to mess with college minds.Nha,
it's very easy
> to mess with college minds. Look at how many people didn't
realize Joe paterno
> coached at the University of Pennsylvania, or that Stanford was in
the Ivy
> League. Some, no doubt, still think that Harvard is a private
school.
Well...actually I knew that Joe Paterno coached at U of Penn. And
that
STanford is Ivy League. I am a hard mind to mess with. I use
critical
thinking skills very well. I don't liked to be pushed around...nor
do I
let people push me around....such as people like you.
You should, however, know what you're talking about. Hopefully this
message will suffice for a while, as this is one conversation that this
message base doesn't need. The Ivy League (capitalized, and otherwise
identified as the Council of Ivy Group Presidents[TM] for your
edification, Ron :) consists solely of Brown, Columbia, Cornell,
Dartmouth, Harvard, Pennsylvania, Princeton, and Yale. Not Stanford,
not MIT, not Duke, not Northwestern, not Rice, not Chicago, etc.
Just to clear things up. :)
Kyle R. Rose kr...@cornell.edu
Cornell University '98 http://crypt.resnet.cornell.edu/~krose/
Department of Computer Science
======================================================================
Cornell Hockey Discussion Forum
http://www.csuglab.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/krr2/hockeymain.cgi
Keith Baird
Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
> You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
> Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
> university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford. You also
> forgot the whole California System. The UC system is not public. It is
> essentially a private university system where tuition fees are paid. The
> Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly funded. Except for out of state
> residents, we don't pay tuition at all.
Judging by your subsequent posts you apparently weren't kidding and
genuinely believe the University of California System is private, so
I suppose someone should correct you on this.
The UC campuses are all public institutions. Check any college
guide or directory of higher education; most such reference works
indicate an institution's public or private status. Peterson's
is probably more familiar to students, though "Accredited Institutions
of Postsecondary Education," published by the American Council on
Education, is the one I keep at my desk.
An institution is not classified as private or public based on
whether students pay tuition out of their own pockets or not.
Public universites operate under the authority and control of a
governmental entity (usually one of the fifty states) and receive some
portion of their operating budget (the percentage varies from campus
to campus) by direct legislative appropriation.
Keith Baird
Assistant Director of Admission
University of Texas at Austin (a public institution)
Alan T. Hirzel
The infamous and unimpressive Jim Coffey wrote:
>
> Lisa Marie Haro, sparing no expense, chose to grace us with:
>
> >College is very important for a great
> >number of us young people. And admission information isn't something to
> >be treated as a joke. College is already hard enough to get into. Don't
> >make future students turn down a school because they feel that it is out
> >of their league.
> They can, of course, get information about any league from the NCAA. If they
> want to go to a Big Ten School, there's Michigan, Ohio State, The University of
> Pennsylvania et al. The IVY League has Hrvard, Yale, Duke, Brown, Stanford,
> Cornell (The only state school in it) and MIT. If they want to be out of a
> league, there are many independents, including Notre Dame, Rush, and Alabama.
Mr. Jim (aka. expert on all things for which he knows nothing) has once
again
illustrated that he is accomplished at being both inaccurate and
annoying. I recall
that he is somehow affiliated with the University of Chicago which
typically attracts
reasonably sharp students. Perhaps the the yield problem at U. of C.
has forced
them to seek out new levels of mediocre and galactically stupid
students.
So, mr. big time expert about all facts about the Ivy League, I am going
to help
bring some insider understanding to your Cow Pasture big ten (ooops,
eleven schools)
perspective on life.
Ivy League (aka. Ancient Eight):
Brown: (exists for other Ivies to walk over)
Cornell: (a confusing hybrid of privately endowed and partially state
funded colleges)
Columbia: (a prison to keep Harlem out of some dusty old buildings)
Dartmouth: (can't get 'em too white or have too many males -- true home
of Animal House)
Harvard: (mysteriously has engineering studies but graduates no real
engineers)
Pennsylvania: (oft confused with Penn State -- what a shame)
Princeton: (students sure do love those house trailers -- new buildings
will all be pre-fab)
Yale: ($20million in Bass money was just pocket change anyway)
Some affiliated trade schools:
MIT: (a subsidiary of Cornell Engineering)
Stanford: (athletic and merit scholarships are a no - no in the big
league)
Duke: (who cares?)
big ten (11) schools: exist for our athletic entertainment
Just let me know if I can be of any more assistance Jimmy.
ATH
Giovanni 8
> Keith Baird wrote:
>> Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
>> You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
>> Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
>> university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford.
>> You also forgot the whole California System. The UC system is
>> not public. It is essentially a private university system where
>> tuition fees are paid. The Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly
>> funded. Except for out of state residents, we don't pay tuition
>> at all.
So, as long as they don't call what they charge "tuition" then
it's "public", but if they have any kind of fee or charge that
they do call "tuition" then it isn't "public" regardless of whether
the state or local government funds, regulates and operates it?!
Whether there are fees at all, or how much they are, or what
they are called, is irrelevant. A totally private university
could theoretically pay its costs from other sources, and not
charge any tuition. In 1963, the Tax Foundation published an
report saying that fees covered on average only 15% of costs
as they had for the last several decades, anyway. Today,
public colleges and universities generally get in the range
of 25% to 33% of their funds from student fees, while pushing
to make them ever higher along with gov't subsidized
"scholarships" to allow more ways of manipulating access.
What matters is "control of day to day operations", IMO.
"An entity has FOIA or Privacy Act agency status if the gov't is
involved in &/or has authority over decisions affecting the on-going,
daily operations of the entity." --- Sarokin 1992-07-22 in Krebs v
Rutgers 797 FS 1246 @1253 (referencing Rocap v Indiek 539 F2d 174
@177 (DC Cir 1976); Washing Research Project, Inc v HEW 504 F2d 238
@248, 245-246 (DC Cir 1974), cert. denied 421 US 963, 95 SCt 1951,
44 LEd2d 450 (1975))
"There is no dispute that FERPA applies to Rutgers & that student
social security numbers are considered 'education records' &/or
'personally identifiable information' under the statute." --- Sarokin
1992-07-22 in Krebs v Rutgers 797 FS 1246 @1258
"[P]laintiffs have presented viable FERPA claims premised upon the
dissemination of student social security numbers to various
university personnel..." --- Sarokin 1992-07-22 in Krebs v Rutgers
797 FS 1246 @1260
"[I]n the enactment of various disclosure [notification] requirements
in the Privacy Act, Congress intended *advance* notice & disclosure
to the public." --- Zobel 1980-05-19 in Doe v Sharp 491 FS 346 @349
--
copyright 1997 jgo all rights reserved
Permission to down-load solely for purposes of reading
once and responding via usenet news is hereby granted.
Motorola inside -- I've got the power.
Kyle R. Rose
: >The Ivy League (capitalized, and otherwise
: >identified as the Council of Ivy Group Presidents[TM] for your
: >edification, Ron :) consists solely of Brown, Columbia, Cornell,
: >Dartmouth, Harvard, Pennsylvania, Princeton, and Yale. Not Stanford,
: That indeed was the case until last year. This year,
: however, Stanford replaced Cornell in the Ivy. Sorry.
: The silver lining though is that your tuition will
: probably go way down.
Gee, I guess I wasn't aware of that. I'm sorry. :) The silver lining for
Stanford is that their selectivity will go up, seeing as they won't be
able to recruit dumb athletes with scholarship offers anymore.
--
Kyle R. Rose kr...@cornell.edu
Cornell University '98 http://crypt.resnet.cornell.edu/~krose/
Department of Computer Science
(P.S. To anyone who didn't catch it, I'm being sarcastic.)
Kyle R. Rose
: That's not true. The role of Ivy League doormat is more properly
: determined by seeing which schools work themselves into a huff
: explaining Ivy League membership.
No, it's determined by those who know what the Ivy League is all about:
not giving out athletic or academic merit scholarships like Stanford or
Duke, both schools which are often incorrectly included in discussions
about the League; and not letting the academic standards of athletes fall
below exceptional. (But, then again, someone from Penn would probably not
be able to understand that second part.) :)
Seriously, I can't express enough how proud students in the Ivy League
should be that their schools compete nationally in quite a few sports
without offering athletic scholarships and without recruiting students
with scores of 900 on the SAT. Yes, Stanford and Duke are very good
schools academically (read: one can get a good education at those places),
but they are (IMHO) just as bad as Kentucky or Nebraksa when it comes to
athletics. I couldn't imagine going to a school where (some of) the
athletes are held to significantly lower standards than the rest of the
student body -- and are paid to boot!
I really don't think we need to have another heated argument about this,
unless everyone feels like it. If you want to discuss the finer points of
my numb skull, or otherwise assault me verbally, feel free to email me.
jcl...@mail.wm.edu
Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
>
> I am not stupid. But in another post he included USC in his
> description. I thoroughly read all posts. Apology accept for the
> comment about condescending tone.
>
> LIsa
Right, he included USC, in his _joke post_.
You responded (with quote) to a post in which
UVM and PSU were underlined, and referred to as
"public." You either failed to read that post (to
which you responded), or you didn't spend four
seconds thinking about what it was you'd just read.
Apology withdrawn; you've demonstrated your
inability to handle the normal pace of things
around soc.college.admissions.
ScI MaD
Why are people always trying to distinguish between Penn State and UPenn
like they are way out of porportion. Penn State is one of the more elite
public schools in America which has departments in which UPenn cannot
match. We should only distinguish not as the "good vs. the bad", rather
respect the different strengths of the schools. This confusion can also
occur in Washington University.. University of Washington....Washington
University in StL........................
ANTINORO, FRANK JOSEPH
In article <E89nr...@midway.uchicago.edu>, cof...@bogus.uchciago.edu (Jim Coffey) writes...
>Lisa Marie Haro, sparing no expense, chose to grace us with:
>>
>(snip)
>
>>future college students browsing the group, who may not have picked up on
>>the fact that this post was a joke.
>
>Proving, once again, it is always September somewhere on USENET.
>
>>But that is no reasons for people making slashing remarks
>>about somebody who obviously doesn't believe it is a joke.
>
>The clueless always get sacrificed.
>
>>It isn't fair
>>to joke about things like college.
>
>In many ways, college is a joke. At any rate, an ability to laugh at absurdity
>is an important trait, one that will help throughout life. Of course, USENET,
>being USENET, isn't about fairness.
>
>>number of us young people. And admission information isn't something to
>>be treated as a joke. College is already hard enough to get into. Don't
>>make future students turn down a school because they feel that it is out
>>of their league.
>They can, of course, get information about any league from the NCAA. If they
>want to go to a Big Ten School, there's Michigan, Ohio State, The University of
>Pennsylvania et al. The IVY League has Hrvard, Yale, Duke, Brown, Stanford,
>Cornell (The only state school in it) and MIT. If they want to be out of a
>league, there are many independents, including Notre Dame, Rush, and Alabama.
>
Gosh, kiddies, do we have to go through this every year? All of the IVY League
schools are in the northeastern US. They are Brown, Columbia, Cornell,
Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton, the University of Pennsylvania, and Yale.
Stanford is in California.
Also, Cornell is a private university. In order to carry out its Land Grant
responsibilities, it has a state-supported component made up of four units; the
College of Agriculture & Life Sciences, the College of Human Ecology, the
College of Veterinary Medicine, and the School of Industrial & Labor Relations.
These units receive an appropriation from the State through SUNY.
Alex S. Katz
In article <334900CD...@cornell.edu>,
Kyle R. Rose <kr...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>The Ivy League (capitalized, and otherwise
>identified as the Council of Ivy Group Presidents[TM] for your
>edification, Ron :) consists solely of Brown, Columbia, Cornell,
>Dartmouth, Harvard, Pennsylvania, Princeton, and Yale. Not Stanford,
That indeed was the case until last year. This year,
however, Stanford replaced Cornell in the Ivy. Sorry.
The silver lining though is that your tuition will
probably go way down.
>Just to clear things up. :)
Ditto.
>Kyle R. Rose kr...@cornell.edu
Katz
--
- And if a finger is cut off, three grivnas for the offense.
- For the moustache twelve grivnas, and for the beard twelve grivnas.
_Russkaya Pravda_ (XI century)
Yeechang Lee
ScI MaD <sci...@aol.com> wrote:
> Why are people always trying to distinguish between Penn State and UPenn
> like they are way out of porportion.
Agreed--does Penn State have a football coach that can match Paterno's
record at Penn? I think not.
> Penn State is one of the more elite public schools in America which
> has departments in which UPenn cannot match.
However, Penn has an edge in its Edith Wharton School of Business/Prep
School. On the other hand, Penn State's Dickinson School of Law is
perennially a top-ten school.
> We should only distinguish not as the "good vs. the bad", rather
> respect the different strengths of the schools. This confusion can
> also occur in Washington University.. University of
> Washington....Washington University in StL........................
Another school with a strong athletic program. Go WUStL Huskies!
--
http://www.columbia.edu/~ylee/
Unababbitt
> That indeed was the case until last year. This year,
> however, Stanford replaced Cornell in the Ivy. Sorry.
> The silver lining though is that your tuition will
> probably go way down.
Is it still April 1?
Charles Lin
ScI MaD (sci...@aol.com) wrote:
|| Why are people always trying to distinguish between Penn State and UPenn
|| public schools in America which has departments in which UPenn cannot
|| respect the different strengths of the schools. This confusion can also
|| occur in Washington University.. University of Washington....Washington
|| University in StL........................
Presumably because the average GPAs and SAT scores are probably
quite different. Which need not mean that one offers significanty
better education than the other for those willing to apply themselves.
--
Charles Lin
cl...@cs.umd.edu
Charles Lin
Kyle R. Rose (kr...@crypt.resnet.cornell.edu) wrote:
|| Seriously, I can't express enough how proud students in the Ivy League
|| should be that their schools compete nationally in quite a few sports
|| without offering athletic scholarships and without recruiting students
|| with scores of 900 on the SAT. Yes, Stanford and Duke are very good
|| schools academically (read: one can get a good education at those places),
|| but they are (IMHO) just as bad as Kentucky or Nebraksa when it comes to
|| athletics. I couldn't imagine going to a school where (some of) the
|| athletes are held to significantly lower standards than the rest of the
|| student body -- and are paid to boot!
While the Ivies don't offer scholarships, and therefore, anyone
who wants to play in the Ivies would need to pay tuition (though
financial aid can come to the rescue), I would still have to believe
that academics standards are lowered for athletes. Of course, there
are always going to be a few overachieving athletes that excel
academically and athletically, but I'd say that the academic
qualifications for athletes is lower, though not abysmally lower.
This is, of course, with no real evidence....
--
Charles Lin
cl...@cs.umd.edu
R. Chris Heck
Charles Lin (cl...@cs.umd.edu) wrote:
: Kyle R. Rose (kr...@crypt.resnet.cornell.edu) wrote:
: || athletics. I couldn't imagine going to a school where (some of) the
: || athletes are held to significantly lower standards than the rest of the
: || student body -- and are paid to boot!
: While the Ivies don't offer scholarships, and therefore, anyone
: who wants to play in the Ivies would need to pay tuition (though
: financial aid can come to the rescue), I would still have to believe
: that academics standards are lowered for athletes. Of course, there
: are always going to be a few overachieving athletes that excel
: academically and athletically, but I'd say that the academic
: qualifications for athletes is lower, though not abysmally lower.
: This is, of course, with no real evidence....
Eternal, inconclusive debates are held at Amherst on whether athletes
(and particularly football players) are held to the same admissions
standards as the general student body. Even the sniveling yellow dogs
of Williams have made t-shirts commenting on our arguments over this
issue ("How good is Williams football? Good enough to lower admissions
standards at Amherst."). I would be surprised if such conversations did
not occur in the actual Ivy League schools as well. For my own part, I
generallya agree with Charles; while they are plenty of football
players who excel academically and are quite intelligent, a substantial
proportion go through school with frequent B's (the Amherst equivalent
of a D) and a high number of "gut" courses.
--
R. Chris Heck | I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short
Amherst College '97 | one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God
U of Chicago | granted it. - Voltaire
Law School '00 |
Michael K. Tamada
In article <5i2cqv$p...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
William Wei-Lun Chen <meph...@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>Yeechang Lee (yl...@columbia.edu) wrote:
>
>: *) A college or university named after a _state_ is a public school
>: operated by that state.
>: Examples: University of Pennsylvania, University of Vermont,
>
>Hey, it looks like Southern California became a state..
A state of mind? ;)
--MKT
Firth, Reginald J.
I know all about this, mail me
Reg
Senior Lecturer CompSci
Christopher B. Stone
In article <334B29...@princeton.edu>,
Justin Mulaire <jmul...@princeton.edu> wrote:
>And besides, we spend our time thinking about other, very important
>things, like which eating club to join, which investment banking firm to
>work for over the summer, etc. And then there's figuring out what to do
>after college: investment banking or management consulting. Heck, some
>people even become lawyers! The possibilities are endless.
Not only that, even some *graduate* students at Princeton go on to become
lawyers! :)
--
Chris Stone * cbs...@princeton.edu * http://www.princeton.edu/~cbstone
"Isolationism must become a thing of the past." -Harry Truman
Unknown
In 1978-79 I recall MIT & Stanford joining the Ivy 8 to make the "Ivy
Group" superceding the "Ivy League". I was a Columbia freshman and I
remember reading it in the campus rag back then.
--
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bioengineer-Financier, NYC
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian http://WWW.Dorsai.Org/~vjp2
vjp2@{MCIMail.Com|CompuServe.Com|Dorsai.Org}
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
R. Chris Heck
Justin Mulaire (jmul...@princeton.edu) wrote:
: R. Chris Heck wrote:
: > Eternal, inconclusive debates are held at Amherst on whether athletes
: > (and particularly football players) are held to the same admissions
: > standards as the general student body.
: [...]
: > I would be surprised if such conversations did
: > not occur in the actual Ivy League schools as well.
: Princeton, for one, does not have such conversations. Come to think of
: it, Princeton does not have conversations at all. Not about things like
: admissions standards or 'fairness' or 'the outside world' or any other
: such silly topics, anyway. I mean, why would we worry about something
: like admissions standards? We're already in, after all!
Wow, I'm glad Princeton rejected me (sob, I even applied Early Action).
Come on, you're just not hanging out with the right people; most
people at Amherst tend to be politically/ideologically apathetic,
but I rarely have a problem striking up a good argument if I
put some effort into it (and shout controversial things in the
dining hall and quads). As far as your last statement, we're
also experiencing controversy concerning our President's mandate
of a common starting day for freshlings (eliminating the football
team's early arrival, as well as "Early Orientation" for minorities
and international students). I mean, the protesting students are
never going to go through orientation, so why should they care
about it? Sheesh.
More seriously, I wonder whether the fact that elite college students
are assigned so much intellectual reading that our marginal utility
of additional intellectual discussions is very low. In other words,
after spending several hours per day in class and reading, we just
want to do something different instead of more of the same.
: Andd besides, we spend our time thinking about other, very important
: things, like which eating club to join, which investment banking firm to
: work for over the summer, etc. And then there's figuring out what to do
: after college: investment banking or management consulting. Heck, some
: people even become lawyers! The possibilities are endless.
Hey, I resent that second to last line; besides, you didn't even
mention deciding what brand of keg to buy.
: Considering all these different options takes time, and we can't be
: expected to also think about 'what is right' or other such idealistic,
: pie-in-the-sky notions. People at other schools may think about that
: sort of thing, but that just shows that they're all pinko liberal
: hippies.
This is the semi-serious part of the post; while I realize the
importance and necessity of continuing argument about what
constitutes the good, just, and right, I believe some aspects
of college and life in general either inhibit those discussions
or make them useless after a certain point. In most courses,
students are deliberately assigned a broad range of material and
opinions (even if most it is slanted leftward) and the professor
often argues that each viewpoint is complex and deserving of
attention. Thus, we're led to the Bloomian point that colleges
tend to encourage relativism, skepticism as the idea of truth,
etc.; while Bloom might overstate the case, I believe the effect
certainly exists (indeed, some professors even consider this to be
a goal) -- most students will be less dogmatic and less certain of
the correctness of their own views after college.
My other argument concerns the relation of theory, argument, and
action. Many disputes simply come down to disagreements over basic
principles which are not amenable to opposing arguments; one cannot
prove that the polis should come before society (or vice versa), or
that rights should be only negative, only positive, a mixture of
both, or none at all. At some point, one needs to stop arguing
with opponents (that point is determined when both sides become
repetitive) and gather with like-minded people to discuss what
actions will be most empirically effective in creating the world
in which one wants to live. These conversations will necessarily
involve less discussion concerning _what_ is the good in favor of
emphasis on _how_ to achieve a good that you and your associates
take for granted (and that others dispute). To do otherwise is
to sacrifice any chance for creating what you believe to be a better
life.
By this point (if you've gotten this far) you're probably wondering
what this has to with college admissions . . . the answer is that,
if you're admitted and attend an elite liberal arts program
(even Princeton ;), you'll think about such things (even if you
don't talk to anyone else about what you're thinking). The other
point is that usenet is the most perfect method of procrastination
known to humankind (and especially useful when one ought to be
writing papers [I can write pages of rambling posts, yet can't
write two more paragraphs to finish a paper on Chekhov]).
Amy N. Frehn
<snip>
> >of their league.
> They can, of course, get information about any league from the NCAA. If they
> want to go to a Big Ten School, there's Michigan, Ohio State, The University of
> Pennsylvania et al. The IVY League has Hrvard, Yale, Duke, Brown, Stanford,
> Cornell (The only state school in it) and MIT. If they want to be out of a
> league, there are many independents, including Notre Dame, Rush, and Alabama.
The University of Pennsylvania is NOT in the Big Ten. However, the
Pennsylvania State
University (Penn State) is!
Amy
Lisa Marie Haro
who cares?
They are all great schools in their own right no matter where they belong.
Lisa
Lisa Marie Haro
tthere are those of us wh o don't understand that the little ^^^^^
indicate underlinings. I have been trying to figure that out for a very
long time. I most certainly can handle the normal pace of things. And
if you can't handle comments from alt.college.us, maybe you can't handle
a higher level of comprehension.
Lisa
Lisa Marie Haro
Why don't you use your mind and look at the posts again. Somebody
mentioned that Stanford was now included.
Plus I most certainly belong here...last time I checked I was a
college student...and what is the name of this news group again?????
hmmm....alt.college.us????
Lisa
On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Kyle R. Rose wrote:
> You should, however, know what you're talking about. Hopefully this
>
> message will suffice for a while, as this is one conversation that this
>
> message base doesn't need. The Ivy League (capitalized, and otherwise
>
> identified as the Council of Ivy Group Presidents[TM] for your
>
> edification, Ron :) consists solely of Brown, Columbia, Cornell,
>
> Dartmouth, Harvard, Pennsylvania, Princeton, and Yale. Not Stanford,
>
> not MIT, not Duke, not Northwestern, not Rice, not Chicago, etc.
>
> Just to clear things up. :)
>
> Kyle R. Rose kr...@cornell.edu
> Cornell University '98 http://crypt.resnet.cornell.edu/~krose/
> Department of Computer Science
Enoch S. Huang
Lisa Marie Haro (lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu) wrote:
: Why don't you use your mind and look at the posts again. Somebody
: mentioned that Stanford was now included.
Lisa, I think the bottom line when using any unmoderated newsgroup is
to read everything with a skeptical eye. Some people unintentionally
mislead, others deliberately mislead for malicious (or perhaps trolling)
purposes, and still others deliberately mislead for humorous purposes.
I maintain that the last category is not necessarily unwelcome,
especially if tastefully and creatively done. Newsgroups are a
wonderful source of potentially very useful (free) information, but in
reality, there is no guarantee of authority or accuracy when one gets
something for free.
-- Enoch
--
Enoch S. Huang, Ph.D.
esh...@hyper.stanford.edu
Kyle R. Rose
Lisa Marie Haro (lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu) wrote:
: Why don't you use your mind and look at the posts again. Somebody
: mentioned that Stanford was now included.
...and happened to be joking. You will eventually have to be able to
distinguish between fiction and fact; it is, unfortunately, a necessary skill
in reading this newsgroup. The last school "added" to the Ivy League was
Brown, when the league was officially formed in 1953; no schools have been
added since then, and my guess is that no schools will ever be added.
--
R. Chris Heck
Joseph G. Adams (jga...@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
: >Why don't you use your mind and look at the posts again. Somebody
: >mentioned that Stanford was now included.
: That's exactly right. Don't let those kids from Cornell tell you
: differently. They're just jealous because Cornell and Amherst got
: kicked out of the Ivy League.
Oh please; it's the Dartmouth students that should be jealous, seeing
as how we kicked them out of the "potted Ivies."
jcl...@mail.wm.edu
What, "higher level of comprehension," are you
talking about? How can you claim a, "higher level
of comprehension," when you admit to not
understanding common internet syntax (like ^^^)?
I can "handle" any comments that you've written,
but many of them have been far off base, or
demonstrated that you can't identify humorous posts
(your current Ivy League related posts are a good
indication, as were your posts related to "A short
guide to colleges and universities). That was what
I meant by your inability to handle the normal pace
of things around here. How long did you read these
groups before you started posting? We call that
"lurking," and it's a good way to get an
understanding of the tone of a newsgroup, or the
sort of things that are joked about. If you didn't
do it, maybe you should try it now. Your
gullibility and naivete' have made you seem
somewhat silly, and it doesn't help that you
continue to respond (seriously) to "trolls" (posts
intended to provoke reactions from newbies).
Others have suggested that "it's always September
somewhere on the 'net," and you've shown that to be
true. I don't think you're dumb, or that you
shouldn't have a voice, but I do think that you
need to refine your ability to identify jokes,
misinformation, etc.
Best,
Josh LaGrange
jcl...@mail.wm.edu
Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
> >
> >
> tthere are those of us wh o don't understand that the little ^^^^^
> indicate underlinings. I have been trying to figure that out for a very
> long time. snip
> And if you can't handle comments from alt.college.us, maybe you can't handle
> a higher level of comprehension.
>
> Lisa
Hmm.... You don't understand common (and obvious)
conventions, but you have, "a higher level of
comprehension."?!? Well, if you say so....
Carey Heckman
In article <19970412042...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
Unababbitt <unaba...@aol.com> wrote:
>In message <5ikoj3$7...@elaine42.Stanford.EDU>, Joseph G. Adans said:
>> That's exactly right. Don't let those kids from Cornell tell you
>> differently. They're just jealous because Cornell and Amherst got
>> kicked out of the Ivy League.
>
>begin with.
Ditto for Cornell. Joe, I thought you of all people would know better.
(My guess is that we're about due for the usual next wave on this sadly
recurring topic: the various fantasies about schools being asked to join
the Ivy League but declining).
--
Carey Heckman
Stanford Law School
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
c...@stanford.edu http://www-techlaw.stanford.edu
(415) 725-7788 fax: (415) 725-1861
Unababbitt
Adam Bonin
In article <Pine.A32.3.91.970410...@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu>,
Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
>tthere are those of us wh o don't understand that the little ^^^^^
>indicate underlinings. I have been trying to figure that out for a very
>long time. I most certainly can handle the normal pace of things. And
>if you can't handle comments from alt.college.us, maybe you can't handle
>a higher level of comprehension.
Joe, Yeechang, etc., I think we're being trolled here by Lisa.
No one can be -this- consistently dense.
-a
--
Adam Bonin | "Surely putting to death ten convicted killers isn't nearly
U of C 3L | as useful as stopping a single Bonin before he tastes
| blood." --Judge Alex Kozinski, New Yorker p.53 (2/10/97)
Stephen Aryan
Ahhhhh! Who really cares? Just get accepted to a school you can
afford. I went to both UCLA and USC.
UCLA= Public
USC= Private
I also believe that the Cal State schools do charge tuition. How else
are they going to make a profit? I AM NOT SURE, SO DO NOT FLAME ME.
Stephen Y. Aryan
brve...@webtv.net
jcl...@mail.wm.edu
Adam Bonin wrote:
>
> In article <Pine.A32.3.91.970410232433.44085E-100000@trumpet.a
ix.calpoly.edu>,
> Lisa Marie Haro <lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu> wrote:
>
> >tthere are those of us wh o don't understand that the little ^^^^^
> >indicate underlinings. I have been trying to figure that out for a very
> >long time. I most certainly can handle the normal pace of things. And
> >if you can't handle comments from alt.college.us, maybe you can't handle
> >a higher level of comprehension.
>
> Joe, Yeechang, etc., I think we're being trolled here by Lisa.
>
> No one can be -this- consistently dense.
>
I considered that, but I decided that I was just
out of touch with the "normal" range of the
population. People are SLOW.
Josh LaGrange
The College of William and Mary
> -a
> --
> Adam Bonin | "Surely putting to death ten convicted killers isn't nearly
> U of C 3L | as useful as stopping a single Bonin before he tastes
> | blood." --Judge Alex Kozinski, New Yorker p.53 (2/10/97)
Damn! You're lucky. Why can't a LaGrange spark
quotes like this....
Jeffrey Lehman
Hi Lisa,
How are you? You don't know me and I was wondering if you would be
interested in making money from your WEBTV. If you don't have a WEBTV I
can explain it to you later if you like. If you are not interested in
making tons of money then you don't have to respond to my message. If
you are interested or you know someone that would like to make a lot of
money let me know. When you see them making money then you might want
to get in too. I have to go now and I hope to talk to you soon.
The Name of the business is called Future Net. In case you want to know.
I gotta go now and may the force be with you. : ) Bye Jeff
Jeffrey Lehman
Hi Joseph,
How was your day? You don't know me but would you like to make a
lot of money from your WEBTV? If you don't have a WEBTV and you want to
know more about this business, I can tell you about it later if you
like. If you are not interested in making tons of money, then
disreguard this message. Otherwise, if you are interested let me know
and I will show you how or tell you more about it. I am doing it now
and I love it all you have to do is check it out. The name of the
business is called Future Net. I gotta go now and I hope to hear from
you soon.
Jeff
Jeffrey Lehman
Hi Amy,
How are you doing? You don't know me and I was wondering if you
would you be interested in making more money from WEBTV? If this
interests you then you can e-mail me back. Hope to talk to you soon
about this exciting business. If I tell you now then you probably won't
be interested in checking it out. I would rather wait and make you think
a little first before I tell you anything. I gotta go talk to you
later. Bye bye Jeff
Han Su Kim
Wait .. U Penn is a public school? Hhhhmmmm
Penn State I thought was the official state university
Michael K. Tamada <tam...@oxy.edu> wrote in article
<970408.18...@cheshire.cc.oxy.edu>...
John W. Davies
Does anyone here go to elizabethtown or temple, or know anyone that does?
Please, I need help finding a long lost friends e-mail address. Any help
would be appreciated. thank you.
------------------------------John----------------------------------------------
Sometimes the violence gets to me
Makes me so sick I can't even see
I will prevail!
The good times followed by the hard times
And the good shall return and this
I do swear!
Though my eyes have seen your o.k.
Through suffocation, dedication
I will rise!
Jim Coffey
Vasos Panagiotopoulos +1-917-287-8087 Bioengineer-Financier Samani Marions
Panyaught NYC-11357-3436-287-USA, sparing no expense, chose to grace us with:
>
>In 1978-79 I recall MIT & Stanford joining the Ivy 8 to make the "Ivy
>Group" superceding the "Ivy League". I was a Columbia freshman and I
>remember reading it in the campus rag back then.
>
>
out ( to reform the IVY League, although with different temas than before),
UPenn joined to keep the BigTen at ten (it would be silly to have a conference
called the Big Ten without 10 members). Upenn and Paterno had a great first
year in the BigTen, winning the championship and a co-national championship.
Lisa Marie Haro
> What, "higher level of comprehension," are you
> talking about? How can you claim a, "higher level
I don't maybe i was just thinking of some stupid way to counter the high
falutent comment somebody else made.
> I can "handle" any comments that you've written,
> but many of them have been far off base, or
Have they? I have seen numerous posts in the last few weeks that echo my
feelings regarding not knowning that the original post was a joke...In
fact I saw one today.
> of things around here. How long did you read these
> groups before you started posting? We call that
Actually I hav been lurking and continuously commenting on this group for
about two years.
And from my past experience the jokes have always been seriously
obvious...and from my understanding this group had two threads going.
The semi-serious group actually talking about college related stuff. And
then the utterly stupid get rich quick schemes that have finally
disappeared. I have been very tired of exploring this newsgroup and
finding nothing but a 80-100 of those damn things.
> do it, maybe you should try it now. Your
> gullibility and naivete' have made you seem
> somewhat silly, and it doesn't help that you
I admit I am very naive. And even more so I am very gullable. I don't
usually get jokes at all. When friends tell me jokes...they have to keep
repeating them. Especially very subtle ones...like this whole joke that
keeps carrying on.
> continue to respond (seriously) to
"trolls" (posts > intended to provoke reactions from newbies).
However...I am not a newbie...just somebody with such a warped sense of
humor that i can't get normal jokes that others have no problem getting.
Others have suggested that "it's always September
> somewhere on the 'net," and you've shown that to be
> true.
Yes it is true...I am a college student. I think of the year in terms of
school...and will continue to do so until next march when I leave school
forever.
I don't think you're dumb, or that you
> shouldn't have a voice, but I do think that you
> need to refine your ability to identify jokes,
> misinformation, etc.
It is not about misinformation...I never claimed to be an expert in
identifying schools...nobody did. Of course I should have a voice...this
is a public newsgroup correct? However that doesn't give you the right
in the past to write some very biting remarks directed towards me. I
admit I have been wrong on several cases.
Thank you for not thinking I am dumb. Sometimes my learning disability
of not getting main ideas and formulating them into thoughts gets in the
way I guess you could say! But then you could also say that the
newsgroup could refine its way of presenting jokes. Not all of us get the
obivous jokes or even the subtle jokes like this one.
Lisa
Lisa Marie Haro
On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Justin Mulaire wrote:
> Lisa Marie Haro wrote:
> >
> > You do have one error in your list and definitions...University of
> > Southern California is not a public University. It is a private
> > university. Very similar to that of Cal Berkeley or Stanford. You also
> > forgot the whole California System. The UC system is not public. It is
> > essentially a private university system where tuition fees are paid. The
> > Cal State System (CSU) is all publicly funded. Except for out of state
> > residents, we don't pay tuition at all.
> >
> > So get some of your facts straight.
>
> People who live in glass houses...
>
>
> -JVM
>
>
Not that again....didn't we already go through that whole argument two
weeks ago?
Lisa
Lisa Marie Haro
I admit I know nothing about the ivy league, the pac ten, the big ten,
etc. I am a student of the Cal State school, who is very low on the
totem of posterity.
Lisa
On 11 Apr 1997, Kyle R. Rose wrote:
> Lisa Marie Haro (lh...@polymail.calpoly.edu) wrote:
> : Why don't you use your mind and look at the posts again. Somebody
> : mentioned that Stanford was now included.
>
Michael K. Tamada
In article <5ic48p$g...@mimsy.cs.umd.edu>, Charles Lin <cl...@cs.umd.edu> wrote:
>Kyle R. Rose (kr...@crypt.resnet.cornell.edu) wrote:
>|| Seriously, I can't express enough how proud students in the Ivy League
>|| should be that their schools compete nationally in quite a few sports
>|| without offering athletic scholarships and without recruiting students
[...]
>|| athletics. I couldn't imagine going to a school where (some of) the
>|| athletes are held to significantly lower standards than the rest of the
>|| student body -- and are paid to boot!
>
> While the Ivies don't offer scholarships, and therefore, anyone
>who wants to play in the Ivies would need to pay tuition (though
>financial aid can come to the rescue), I would still have to believe
>that academics standards are lowered for athletes. Of course, there
[...]
>This is, of course, with no real evidence....
I guess it's a question of how one defines "significantly lower
standards". The athletes in the Ivy League will academically outperform
athletes and even non-athletes at most other schools. But there is some
evidence of lower standards or at least lower performance by some Ivy
League athletes: in the mid-1980s somehow some information about the
academic performance of the various Harvard houses (dorms) leaked out.
Kirkland house had the highest proportion of football players and the
lowest average GPA of all the Harvard houses (also the highest proportion
of economics majors; a glance at a Harvard football program in those days
quickly confirmed that economics was the major of choice for the
football players. Indeed I speculate that this is why the econ dept.
there had a two-tier economics major: a highly demanding one for the
future econ PhDs and a less demanding one for the football players and
others looking for a gut major.
--Mike Tamada
Occidental College
tam...@oxy.edu
Yeechang Lee
Michael K. Tamada <tam...@oxy.edu> wrote:
> Indeed I speculate that this is why the econ dept. there had a
> two-tier economics major: a highly demanding one for the future econ
> PhDs and a less demanding one for the football players and others
> looking for a gut major.
Not just economics; both Harvard and Yale offer two-tiered astronomy
majors, for one. Is astronomy a popular jock major? I doubt it.
--
http://www.columbia.edu/~ylee/
Mr. Dennis P. Crowley
: No kidding. When your football team is as mighty as Penn's, you
: shouldn't have to share the stage with anyone else. Paterno rules!
"San Diemas High School football rules!"
-dp
Syracuse represent.
Kyle R. Rose
Jump773 (jum...@aol.com) wrote:
: Doesn't anyone else think UPenn's tuition is out of line for a public
: school? They just joined the Big Ten a few years ago too, right? Someone
: tried to tell me that they were in the Ivy League, but I know there aren't
: any public Ivies.
I'm always amazed at how people think there isn't enough good conversation
here that they have to start flame wars. I've got an idea -- why doesn't
everyone who sees my message NOT RESPOND to this thread any more, and we can
weed these trolls out.
--
| Kyle R. Rose Cornell University '98
| Department of Computer Science kr...@cornell.edu
| Department of Mathematics http://crypt.resnet.cornell.edu/~krose/
|------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Hi vivunt qui e corporum vinclis tamquam e carcere evolaverunt, vestra
| vero quae dicitur vita mors est." - Cicero, Somnium Scipionis
Adam Bonin
In article <slrn5lf5k...@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>,
Yeechang Lee <yl...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>Jump773 <jum...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Doesn't anyone else think UPenn's tuition is out of line for a
>> public school?
>
>in-state discount.
Well, not for freshmen. But like with most public schools, after your
first year there you've established state residency, so you can get the
discount.
>> Someone tried to tell me that they were in the Ivy League, but I
>> know there aren't any public Ivies.
>
>No, Cornell State is definitely a public school and the flagship of NY
>state's public school system. It's generally known as a "public Ivy."
As are SUNY-Binghamton, Rutgers, UChicago and Wake Forest. Grinnell,
however, constantly and wrongly gets lumped in with these schools, perhaps
because of its nickame "Cornell West", being designed along the same
structure. But Grinnell is just as private as UMiami and UPenn.
Jump773
Doesn't anyone else think UPenn's tuition is out of line for a public
tried to tell me that they were in the Ivy League, but I know there aren't
any public Ivies.
J
Paul Fargotstein
Kyle R. Rose wrote:
>
> Jump773 (jum...@aol.com) wrote:
> : Doesn't anyone else think UPenn's tuition is out of line for a public
> : school? They just joined the Big Ten a few years ago too, right? Someone
> : tried to tell me that they were in the Ivy League, but I know there aren't
> : any public Ivies.
>
> here that they have to start flame wars. I've got an idea -- why doesn't
> everyone who sees my message NOT RESPOND to this thread any more, and we can
> weed these trolls out.
>
> --
> | Kyle R. Rose Cornell University '98
> | Department of Computer Science kr...@cornell.edu
> | Department of Mathematics http://crypt.resnet.cornell.edu/~krose/
> |------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | "Hi vivunt qui e corporum vinclis tamquam e carcere evolaverunt, vestra
> | vero quae dicitur vita mors est." - Cicero, Somnium Scipionis
Remember Hanlon's Razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by
stupidity."
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Paul
Yeechang Lee
Jump773 <jum...@aol.com> wrote:
> Doesn't anyone else think UPenn's tuition is out of line for a
> public school?
Agreed. $20000 is way, way too much, especially since there's no
in-state discount.
> They just joined the Big Ten a few years ago too, right?
No, they've been a member for years--longer than Paterno's tenure as coach.
> Someone tried to tell me that they were in the Ivy League, but I
> know there aren't any public Ivies.
No, Cornell State is definitely a public school and the flagship of NY
state's public school system. It's generally known as a "public Ivy."
Kyle R. Rose
: > I'm always amazed at how people think there isn't enough good conversation
: > here that they have to start flame wars. I've got an idea -- why doesn't
: > everyone who sees my message NOT RESPOND to this thread any more, and we can
: > weed these trolls out.
: Remember Hanlon's Razor:
: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by
: stupidity."
Touche. :)
Erin Marie Kawas
re: football house at Harvard has lowest average GPA
This isn't conclusive evidence that athletes are given special
admissions treatment -- just that they don't do as well once
they're here. I'd argue that athletes who go on road trips to
games and practice many hours a day may not perform as well
as students with more free time.
Of course, many of the athletes here have more
structured lives than other students and actually perform better.
Hopefully, their coaches and teams also encourage them to do
well and lend support where needed.
Then again, I'm nearly positive that there are different
standards for talented athletes. Go on an ivy league campus and
ask for scores. I guarantee you that the national rowing and
lacrosse champions have lower SATs than the bookish types. Of
course, by lower I mean 1300's, so it's not that big of a deal.
Erin
jvil...@bates.edu
Amy N. Frehn wrote:
+
+ <snip>
+ > >of their league.
+ > They can, of course, get information about any league from the
+ NCAA. If they
+ > want to go to a Big Ten School, there's Michigan, Ohio State, The
+ University of
+ > Pennsylvania et al. The IVY League has Hrvard, Yale, Duke, Brown,
+ Stanford,
+ > Cornell (The only state school in it) and MIT. If they want to be
+ out of a
+ > league, there are many independents, including Notre Dame, Rush,
+ and Alabama.
+
+ The University of Pennsylvania is NOT in the Big Ten. However, the
+ Pennsylvania State
+ University (Penn State) is!
+
+ Amy
hope i'm not jumping in in the middle of something i don't understand,
but last i checked the ivy league did not include duke, stanford, or
mit, althought u penn is.
jeremy villano
m@
To get everyone straight:
The Ivy League
Brown
Columbia
Cornell (only the Undergrad, which is private--some of the other schools
are public)
Dartmouth
Harvard-Radcliffe
Unversity of Pennsylvania (NOT Penn State)
Princeton
Yale
All the members of the Ivy League are private (though Cornell does have
some public units which are not in the League). The League is merely a
group of schools which have similar athletic, admissions, and financial
aid policies.
Alan T. Hirzel
m@ wrote:
>
> To get everyone straight:
As if you knew!
>
> The Ivy League (the home of the finest educations a million dollars can buy)
>
> Brown
> Columbia
> Cornell (only the Undergrad, which is private--some of the other schools
> are public)
You obviously know very little about Cornell. The fact that three of
the seven colleges get 35% of their annual funding from the State of New
York has nothing to do with their status within the Ivy League. If you
ask the admissions offices at the University, you will find that those
colleges are the most difficult to gain admission to because the state
support for low tuition makes a superb University a relative bargin.
Further, the Graduate and Professional Schools (Law, Business, Medicine,
and Vet Medicine)along with the undergraduate colleges make up a
wonderful Ivy League University by the name of Cornell. Anyone who says
differently is looking for a flame war.
> Dartmouth
> Harvard-Radcliffe
> Unversity of Pennsylvania (NOT Penn State thank God)
> Princeton
> Yale
>
> All the members of the Ivy League are private (though Cornell does have
> some public units which are not in the League).
Doh! Wrong again, knower of all about the Ivy League.
>The League is merely a
> group of schools which have similar athletic, admissions, and financial
> aid policies.
True, and it is filled with students who are generally very proud and
satisfied with the work that they had to put in to enter and succeed
within those Universities and Colleges.
ath