Skates off and on Haight
Ilan Vardi
a skate store in San Francisco, California. I am visiting the
San Francisco Bay Area with my wife, and I ran into the store
by chance while walking on Polk street. Intrigued, I walked in
and immediately noticed some Miller Fitness Pro skates on
display. Since I live in Paris and Miller doesn't appear to
export much of their products, it was the first opportunity
for me to see this skate up close. I wanted to try them out,
as they might have made a lighter and more responsive
alternative to my current Salomon Vitesse 2 skates.
I went over to a person working at the store and asked him
if I could try the skates. He looked at me with an air of
contempt and said something to the effect of: "Those are speedskates,
how long have you been skating?" I responded that I hadn't raced
but that I was interested in trying out speedskates. He then asked
me what I was using now and when I responded Salomon Vitesse,
he said: "Why do you want the Millers? The Salomons are just as
fast and cheaper." I wasn't interested in giving my reasons, and
given that the Salomon Vitesse has been available for two
years, he could have considered the possibility that my skates
had worn down... Before I had the chance to respond, he said that
he wasn't the guy responsible for speedskates, and that the bottom
line was, you had to deal with the other salesman who was on the phone.
At this point, I asked my wife whether I should just go, and she was
vigourously encouraging me to leave when the other guy got off the
phone and aske me what was up. I asked him whether I could try the
Miller skate, but when he found out I had Salomon skates, he said that
I just had to try the Salomon TR Racing, since Salomon was working for me.
he got out a pair of TR Racing, but I told him that I wasn't interested since
every report I had about this skate had been negative, and one store
(Hawaii Surf in Paris) even refused to let me try them on since all the
customers who had bought them had negative experiences. He responded
to that by saying: "We are skates.com and I just sold 100 pairs to Japan
yesterday, so those are good boots." I insisted that I wasn't interested
and he started talking generalities about speedskates: "You buy the boot,
frame and wheels separately, that's how it's done for speedskates."
He also said that I should really look at their website, and I asked him:
"You're not suggesting that I just leave the store and just buy this
boot off of your website?" His response: "Well, if you do that, you
will only pay $240 instead of $300."
I wasn't quite sure what it was about me that made him believe that I
was a completely idiot, but the next thing he said was so weird that
I realized that maybe there was something wrong with the guy. He
wanted to explain to me the difference between fitness skates and
carbon race skates, and he introduced this subject by asking me:
"Have you ever boxed in a ring?" This really surprised me and I
just said no. He just ignored my response and went on: "Going to
carbon skates is just like going from 10 oz gloves to 6 oz gloves
in boxing (I don't recall the numbers, they were meaningless to me)."
I just couldn't believe why he would use boxing as an analogy for
an aerobic sport, and anyway, my physical presence is not too imposing,
especially in the upper body (I was wearing a short sleaved T-shirt),
see http://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/~ilan/boucle.html
Believe it or not, this interaction got even more weird. Apparently, I
didn't seem too impressed by the boxing analogy, so he went on:
"Have you ever heard of Athens to Atlanta?" I acknowleged that I had.
"Well, I finished third ... (long pause) ... in my age category." Right
about here is when I had enough and I just walked away and left the store.
Actually, he was pretty surprised by this.
Upon leaving the store, my wife asked me why I had never said anything
the whole time that I was being treated with total contempt. She said that
I should go back, otherwise I would just brood for hours. I agreed, and went
back to tell him the following story: On the French speedskating forum of
http://www.rollernet.com I had read a message from the Rexton distributor
for France about the Salomon TR Racing. This guy kept saying that Rexton
made really great speedskates, and someone asked him why then were
the Salomon TR Racing so bad, given the fact that they were made by Rexton.
"A good question," the distributor answered, "and since I also sell Salomon,
you can bet that I asked exactly this question to Rexton when I went to
see them. The deal is that Salomon sent them extremely detailed instructions
as to the construction of the boot and Rexton had absolutely no freedom
about the design of the skate. Rexton was so disappointed with the result
that they have stopped making the Salomon TR Racing (I think it's been
picked up by Mariani skates)." So, I went back to the store, saw the guy
and started saying: "I read a message by the Rexton distributor for
France on an Internet forum..." The salesman looked at me with a really
quizzical look as if to say: "What are you saying, dude?" but then the phone
rang, he picked it up and started talking and no longer payed any attention
to my person. That's when I decided to leave for good.
Before continuing with this story, I should say that later that day, I went to
the skate shop Skate Pro Sports, also in San Francisco,
and the service there was as good as I have ever had.
The salesman understood exactly what I was interested in, and had me try on
a very nice pair of Bont Boxer boots, which fit me rather well.
To return to the Haight story, the next day found us in the Haight Ashbury
district of San Francisco, and it was inevitable that we go to the original
store Skates on Haight. It turned out that Skates Off Haight was actually
the more acive store, apparently because of the website sales. I spent about
20 minutes in the Skates on Haight store and I was never greeted
by any salesman, I received no acknowledgement of my existence was ever
established, there were two salespersons for about four customers.
However, I did manage to glean some very interesting information from the
store's Western Wall which was a shrine to the salesman I had encountered
at the Polk store. Indeed, one could read newspaper clippings from the
mid seventies and view the guy sporting about ten times as much hair.
There was also a 1995 certificate from some Bay Area magazine giving
the store the award for best place to buy inline skates in San Francisco.
However, the most revealing item was a framed certificate from the
Athens to Atlanta race stating that Lee Cole had finished third in the 40-49
age category in 1992. So, the guy had stated the truth, however, he had
not stated the whole truth: The certificate also included the finishing time
8 hours 1 minute for 85 miles.
Now, I'm not saying that this is a bad time, I'm not sure if I could do any better.
Also, it's possible that the 1992 race was held in monsoon-like conditions or
gale force headwinds. My point is very simple: Racing at10.5 mph (17 kph)
cannot make you an expert on the relative merits of carbon fibre race
skates. OK, you can evaluate whether they are comfortable enough for
8 hours of continuous use, but that's about it, I think. If memory serves
me correctly, there is one contributor to this newsgroup who did Athens to
Atlanta in under six hours with fitness boots. There was also another person
who did Athens to Atlanta in hockey skates, and I would bet that he did a lot
better than 8 hours. Hey, marathon runners go 20 kph...
10.5 mph is the fast cruising speed for hockey skates or quad skates, and
I don't see any point to carbon boots for this speed. I would assume that
high end fitness skates would be the most efficient for that speed.
The point is that Athens to Atlanta seems to be a race designed to let
people achieve their personal goals. Bragging about results just seems
wrong, especially when you don't have much to brag about.
It is even worse when you do this in order to try to browbeat people into
buying your close out material.
I did learn one thing though: When someone tries to impress you with their
race placing, ask them what their time was.
You may wonder what the point of this message is, apart from venting my
spleen, and you would be justified. The point is this: Someone who treats
customers with total contempt should be prepared to suffer the consequence.
I think that this message is also appropriate given the person's internet business:
Live by the web, die by the web.
-ilan
P.S. I am writing these words from the Quetzal Cafe, across the street from
Skates Off Haight.
daveparc
you are having fun in San Francisco. San Francisco is my third
favorite city after Detroit and NYC. Being a hardcore Midwesterner
myself I can say that they are a bit different out there on the left
coast and Mr. Cole is no exception to this observation in my opinion.
Back in the day when CDS Detroit had the hot products in the
aggressive skate scene, dealing with Skates on Haight was always a
colorful experience. The one time I met Mr. Cole at a sporting good
trade show will always be one of my most vivid memories of being in
the trade show circuit.
As far as why skate stores don't have much interest in selling speed
boots is for the simple reason that they just don't make enough money
on them to make it worth their while. Since plastic skates are very
easy and cheap to make they can mark them up and make a good profit
without causing much sticker shock to the customer where as the speed
boot manufacturers have to rely on skilled craftsmen instead of
injection mold machines to produce their boots. This is not a new
thing in the skate business.
When I was growing up playing ice hockey the place I shopped for my
skates and equipment was at Radke's Hardware and Hockey. Back then,
like it is today for speed skates, there was not much room for
retailers to mark up a quality pair of hockey boots so the best skates
were sold at Hardware stores where the owners love of the game meant
he used some of his retail floor to sell hockey equipment even though
he would have made more money using that space for hardware items.
Here in Detroit, now that hockey has gone corporate, the
hockey/hardware stores are mostly a thing of the past but I will
always have fond memories of buying my skates and equipment from
someone that sold them for the love of the sport more than for the
money.
Ilian, don't give up on your quest for a pair of speed boots. The
quality of Miller boots is second to none and they are very nice
people to deal with so give them a call or email and I am sure they
will help you find the right boots for you. Going from plastic skates
to real skate boots can be a challenge, but once you have a pair that
fits your foot and you have mastered the technique it takes to get the
most speed out of them, chances are you won't go back to plastic.
I will not be surprised if when inline skating is a thousand years old
like ice skating is, the only place you will be able to see the
injection molded boots of today will be in history books, and heel
brakes won't even be mentioned;).
Dave
il...@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message news:<6c8faec2.02092...@posting.google.com>...
Javier Torres
i had kinda the same sort of experience at the skates off haight
store. and then i went to skate pro to look at bont skates, and was
taken aback at how knowledgeable and down to earth paul (the owner)
was. he was super helpful and super nice, and gave me a sweet deal on
my boxers. i'm not sure why skates on/off haight always gets those
awards for best skate shop in SF, but if there's any justice in the
world, the award will go to skate pro from now on.
javier.
Bob Cardone
I stopped in Skates on Haight about 8 months ago and was truly
disappointed over the very meager selection of skates that they had.
You look on their web site and they have every model of every skate in
existence. You go to the store, and they have about 8 different
models all together, and most of them are last years. All the stuff
on their web site, they have to order, when you order it. I asked
about a MOD GT and they tried to tell me that the Mod 8 was a better
skate, and that's why they didn't stock the GT.
The last time I had stopped at that store was in the early 90's and it
was much better at that time. The store we have here in Atlanta, Skate
Escape, is one of the best skate shops I have been in , in the entire
country . It makes Skates on Haight, look like a dump.
Bob
Ilan Vardi
> Ilian, I always enjoy reading your skate adventure stories. I hope
> you are having fun in San Francisco. San Francisco is my third
> favorite city after Detroit and NYC. Being a hardcore Midwesterner
> myself I can say that they are a bit different out there on the left
> coast and Mr. Cole is no exception to this observation in my opinion.
> Back in the day when CDS Detroit had the hot products in the
> aggressive skate scene, dealing with Skates on Haight was always a
> colorful experience. The one time I met Mr. Cole at a sporting good
> trade show will always be one of my most vivid memories of being in
> the trade show circuit.
Thanks for the response, I also like your "war stories." By the way,
what was your time doing Athens to Atlanta in hockey skates?
As for the San Francisco skating experience, my wife and I tried out
Golden Gate park, and it was really terrible. All but one of the paved
paths was off limits to bikes or skates, and the road had the worst
pavement I've seen since leaving Paris. In fact, to make it even more
like
Paris, when on the bike path, I asked a skater if this was the main
bike
path, and he just shrugged and skated on.
The best place we've found is the Marina, skating from the Safeway
to
the foot of the Golden Gate Bridge. Tomorrow, we're planning on
skating across
the bridge.
Actually, I've been quite surprised at the dirth of roller skaters in
the
Bay Area. I've seen maybe two in total in Berkeley, where I'm staying,
and
the streets there are really nicely paved and it's fairly flat, as
opposed
to San Francisco. Of course, there are hardly any skaters in the
Peninsula,
I never saw a single speedskater in the Palo Alto area in about 50,000
miles
of bike riding there.
However, I think I did find the best skating spot in Northern
California.
Yesterday, we went to Reno and stopped off in Lake Tahoe. It turns out
that there is a really smoothly paved bike path along Highway 89. It
is completely separate from the road and crisscrosses the main
highway,
but runs mostly along the (Truckee?) river, or in the forest.
I noticed it starting about 1 mile South of Squaw Valley and it ran at
least 3 miles South of Tahoe City, where we turned around. All of this
is at 6,000 ft.
altitude. Someone told me that it actually starts off in Truckee, but
I didn't
notice it there.
-ilan
P.S. I waited for half an hour at the Internet Cafe for Lee Cole (I
had e-mailed
him my message) and was not completely serene, given what appears
to be
his pugilistic background. I am writing these words from the Cole
Cafe
across the street from Skates On Haight (no relation, Cole is for
Cole
street).
daveparc
and Mil Mar 11 inch hockey frames and 70mm wheels. I did it in 2:17
and came in 7th. The short frames and small wheels were great for
climbing but it was scary coming down the hills on such short frames
in a paceline. I went to speed skates the next year and never liked
climbing as well on the long frames as I did on the short ones. When
I went to Mogema clap frames in 2001 I found climbing hills much
easier again and passed through the 38 mile finish that year in 2:12
on my way to a 5:30 86 mile finish. Being a life long toe pushing ice
hockey player, the claps are a lot more comfortable for my skating
style.
I had the same impression you have about skating San Francisco.
Golden Gate Park pales in comparison to the skate scene in Central
Park and unless you are skating with local skaters it is pretty hard
to get around on skates in that city.
il...@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message news:<6c8faec2.02092...@posting.google.com>...
Jonathan Seutter
>
> P.S. I waited for half an hour at the Internet Cafe for Lee Cole (I
> had e-mailed
> him my message) and was not completely serene, given what appears
> to be
> his pugilistic background. I am writing these words from the Cole
> Cafe
> across the street from Skates On Haight (no relation, Cole is for
> Cole
> street).
After reading your "Skates On Haight" story, I didn't remember reading
anywhere that you BOUGHT skates-either from SOH or Skate Pro.
Someone who has had a skate shop since 1976-most likely has 'heard"
everything and "seen" everything possible, might have figured you
weren't going to buy, maybe thought from what you said that "you
thought you knew everything"-maybe Cole listened to you for ninety
seconds, but had made a judgement in the first fifteen seconds, and
listened the next 75 seconds trying to be polite?
Just a hypothetical question, i wasn't there-but I have found SOH to
have a "low tolerence" for who they think are time wasters!
Just another view and opinion..
Jonathan