Beethoven Late Quartets : HELP!
Bartosz Lubczonok
Hi,
I've got the Quarteto Italiano version of the Late quartets. I like some
of it and dislike some of it.
Summary :
Op.127(E-flat) : Generally well played.
Op.135 : Generally well played.
Op.130 : 1st movement :- not vigourous enough
5th movement :- they don't get enough out of the halting
middle section!!
Grosse Fuge : Terrible(too slow, rhythmic intensity glossed over!)
Op.131 : Generally ok. Fugue could be more piercing.
3rd movement : should be more pointillistic.
4th movement : ok.
6th movement : cello not prominent enough => metaphysical
depths not explored like the Lindsay do.
7th movement : not vigorous enough, a bit clumsy.
Op.132 : Quite happy.
So, you see what my situation is!!!
I've only heard 2 versions of the late quartets : The Italiano and the
Lindsay. The Italiano are more lyrical, but the Lindsay are technically
far better, and seem to get more out of most of it. There are points at
which the Lindsay are a bit cold though.
What other recordings are there of this great music. I read some back
issues of Gramaphone magazine. Generally, they said :
The commanding heights in the Late quartets are owned by the :
Alban Berg, Lindsay, Talich and Vegh quartets, but we mustn't forget the
quarteto Italiano's "selfless" account. The Alban Berg are technically in
a class of their own, but tend to sound bright. The Vegh get by far the
most metaphysical depth out of them, but have some intonation problems at
times. The Lindsay have the best projected aural image and blend, and
get the more out of certain slow movements that the Alban Berg and the Vegh.
But, I have my reservations about English musicians(cold, unable to feel
passion, but technically good).
WHAT CAN I DO? Maybe someone is willing to swap his set(what is it?) for
my Italiano version?? I dunno...
Bartosz
Peter Lemken
Go for one of the Alban Berg sets and never mind the money spent. It is
worth every single cent and will bring endless joy and delight up to your
last day on earth.
The live recording is more spontaneous most of the time and quite risky
and not always as perfect in intonation as one would wish. The impact,
however, is tremendous. Pichler (1st violin) is an incredible musician and
plays in a class of its own as a quartet violinist.
The studio recordings are technically flawless, yet inspired and
breathtaking in the fast movements, whilst keeping the perfect balance
betweens Beethovens visionary movements (the Cavatina in Op. 130 is
AWESOME!) and well behaved seriosity. I can never decide between the two
recordings and I promise you will not regret buying either of them.
Peter Lemken
Berlin
Mario Taboada
If the Smetana quartet recordings on Supraphon ever reappear, grab them.
In particular, their Op. 130 is the best on record, even better than the
Hollywood (which is to say, sublime).
The recently reissued Hollywood is a must for serious Beethoven
admirers - and even for admirers of Dan Koren. Superior musicianship
and a high-level technique that is entirely at the service of the
music.
Another great set is by the Quartetto Italiano on Philips. Again, we
have almost flawless technique and fantastic musicianship. This
set is classic.
If you want Guarneri, the earlier set is more spontaneous than the
later one, in which the overheated playing of both violinists spoils
the great musicianship of Tree and Soyer (two of the very best chamber
musicians to be found anywhere).
Other good recordings: Vlach Quartet, Hungarian Quartet (the old one),
Yale Quartet, Vermeer Quartet, Orford Quartet, Alban Berg Quartet (their
Op. 135 is absolutely superb).
Regards,
--
Mario Taboada
* Department of Mathematics * Old Dominion University * Norfolk, Virginia
e-mail: tab...@math.odu.edu
Bartosz Lubczonok
Hi,
Thanks, but you have made me even more confused. Just tell me which 2 or 3
sets are the very best.
Thanks
Bartosz
CBailis
The Tokyo!
Carole
Dan Koren
In article <g93l4942.845913904@omega> g93l...@cs.ru.ac.za (Bartosz Lubczonok) writes:
>Thanks, but you have made me even more confused. Just tell me
>which 2 or 3 sets are the very best.
OK, let's simplify this:
The very best set ever of the LvB Quartets is unquestionably the old
Juilliard Quartet. The only problem is that it is not available on CDs.
If you're lucky you may be able to find one in a used record store. It
is Columbia GM-101 (10 LPs).
Otherwise, if money is an issue, the Hungarian Quartet on EMI and the
Vermeer Quartet on Teldec are the best value for money.
If money is no object, consider the Vegh Quartet on Valois, the Talich
Quartet on Calliope, the Hollywood on Testament, or the Alban Berg on
EMI.
Personally I do not like the Italians, the Amadeus, the Tokyo, or the
Budapest.
dk
Dan Koren
In article <54edgc$j...@mtha.usc.edu> tab...@mtha.usc.edu (Mario Taboada) writes:
>The recently reissued Hollywood is a must for serious Beethoven
>admirers - and even for admirers of Dan Koren.
Don't be silly. I bought the Hollywood set as soon as it showed up
at Tower. It is superb. But it does not displace the old Juilliard
as my reference.
>Other good recordings: Vlach Quartet, Hungarian Quartet (the old
>one), Yale Quartet, Vermeer Quartet, Orford Quartet, Alban Berg
>Quartet (their Op. 135 is absolutely superb).
The Hungarians and the Vermeer are the best value for money if one
is shopping for bargains.
dk
Bartosz Lubczonok
Hi,
I have ordered the Vegh, Talich and Lindsay quartets. I listen to them
extensively and choose the one I like most. There is however a possiblilty thatI'll have to buy separate discs for different quartets.
If someone could post me the playing times of the Vegh and Talich(i.e. of all
the quartets and their individual movements) this would be very welcome.
Thanks,
Bartosz
William Bailer
I've heard them all. What's wrong with Budapest? It is the most human,
richest, and expressive of them all.
Bill Bailer
\\\ William Bailer wba...@cris.com
\\\ Rochester, NY, USA phone: 716-473-9556
\\\ Interests: acoustics, JSBach, anthropology, piano technology
Rick Hayward
> On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Dan Koren wrote:
> >The very best set ever of the LvB Quartets is unquestionably the old
> >Juilliard Quartet.
That is a highly questionable assertion.
> >Otherwise, if money is an issue, the Hungarian Quartet on EMI
Yes - the Hungarian has reasonable sound for its vintage and is a good bargain.
> >If money is no object, consider the Vegh Quartet on Valois, the Talich
> >Quartet on Calliope
Those are definately the two major stars in the firmament.
> >Personally I do not like the Italians
But many do. The bottom line is that there is no one 'best'
performance - but my preference would be for the Talich if money
isn't a problem.
RH
--
Rick Hayward, Wakefield, West Yorkshire
rick.h...@zetnet.co.uk
Ian Bell
>
>> >Personally I do not like the Italians
>
>But many do. The bottom line is that there is no one 'best'
>performance - but my preference would be for the Talich if money
>isn't a problem.
Incidentally, I notice Philips has just issued the Italians on their
Philips Duo series (2 vols. of 2 cds each), which is in effect to
move them down from mid- to budget-price.
--
Ian Bell
ib...@chass.utoronto.ca -- http://www.chass.utoronto.ca:8080/~ibell
jdavid2
William Bailer wrote:
>
> On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> >>Thanks, but you have made me even more confused. Just tell me
> >>which 2 or 3 sets are the very best.
> >
> >OK, let's simplify this:
> >
> >
> >Personally I do not like the Italians, the Amadeus, the Tokyo, or the
> >Budapest.
> >
> >
> >dk
>
> I've heard them all. What's wrong with Budapest? It is the most human,
> richest, and expressive of them all.
>
> Bill Bailer
I agree. If you're talking about the Julliard's recordings from the '70s
they are great, but the Budapest recordings from '51 or '52 using the
"matched" Strads at the Library of Congress is IMHO unsurpassed, and the
sound of those instruments...(BTW I think the Budapest did other
recordings of them as well but those first ones are the _great_ ones)
JD
--
Anthology of Christmas Music: The Christmas Guitar
http://www.pair.com/montrsmu
William Bailer
On 4 Nov 1996, Ian Bell wrote:
>>
>>> >Personally I do not like the Italians
>>
>>But many do. The bottom line is that there is no one 'best'
>>performance - but my preference would be for the Talich if money
>>isn't a problem.
>
>
>Incidentally, I notice Philips has just issued the Italians on their
>Philips Duo series (2 vols. of 2 cds each), which is in effect to
>move them down from mid- to budget-price.
I bought the Quartetto Italiano, and was impressed with their lushness,
their professionalism, big tone, and controlled tempos. It reminded me
a little of the old Budapest recording.
So I then played the Budapest. Ahhh ... if only the Italians could play
like that!
Don Patterson
William Bailer wrote:
>
> On 4 Nov 1996, Ian Bell wrote:
>
> >>
> >>> >Personally I do not like the Italians
> >>
> >>But many do. The bottom line is that there is no one 'best'
> >>performance - but my preference would be for the Talich if money
> >>isn't a problem.
> >
> >
> >Incidentally, I notice Philips has just issued the Italians on their
> >Philips Duo series (2 vols. of 2 cds each), which is in effect to
> >move them down from mid- to budget-price.
>
> I bought the Quartetto Italiano, and was impressed with their lushness,
> their professionalism, big tone, and controlled tempos. It reminded me
> a little of the old Budapest recording.
>
> So I then played the Budapest. Ahhh ... if only the Italians could play
> like that!
>
Here! Here!
I like the Berg's first set as well. Very energetic yet warm playing.
Don Patterson
"The President's Own"
United States Marine Band
Yoon Jae and Mielle Lee
William Bailer wrote:
>
> On 4 Nov 1996, Ian Bell wrote:
>
> >>
> >>> >Personally I do not like the Italians
> >>
> >>But many do. The bottom line is that there is no one 'best'
> >>performance - but my preference would be for the Talich if money
> >>isn't a problem.
> >
> >
> >Incidentally, I notice Philips has just issued the Italians on their
> >Philips Duo series (2 vols. of 2 cds each), which is in effect to
> >move them down from mid- to budget-price.
>
> I bought the Quartetto Italiano, and was impressed with their lushness,
> their professionalism, big tone, and controlled tempos. It reminded me
> a little of the old Budapest recording.
>
> So I then played the Budapest. Ahhh ... if only the Italians could play
> like that!
>
>
> \\\ William Bailer wba...@cris.com
> \\\ Rochester, NY, USA phone: 716-473-9556
> \\\ Interests: acoustics, JSBach, anthropology, piano technology
very good investment. Better than Quartetto Italiano!