The Counterfeit Object of Worship #24
Rachelle Hardy
A counterfeit object of worship posesses the power of devils that
are hostile toward Buddhism. When someone worships such an object, that
person will receive actual punishment because of the devils' occult
powers. Because of the sin of slander of worshipping a counterfeit
object of worship, the result will be to fall into hell for a very long
time. In the Daishonin's Buddhism, it is a great slander to use
spurious imitations. The reason is that since it resembles the Buddha,
the correct teachings will be concealed and many people will lose sight
of the genuine Buddha.
The Shingon sect stole "T'ien-t'ai's "ichinen sanzen" and
established that the "Dainichi Sutra is supreme." The Daishonin refuted
it, saying that, "Shingon ruins the nation." The counterfeit object of
worship recently being manufactured by the Soka Gakkai is an attempt to
steal the Nichiren Shoshu Gohonzon. It is similar in form and shape to
Nichikan Shonin's Gohonzon but because their slander is even greater
than that of the Shingon sect, practice to it will bring no benefit.
Instead, the karma derived from their misconduct will accumulate in
direct proportion to the gravity of their offense.
Second (Soka Gakkai) President Toda gave the following guidance
concerning the Gohonzon.
The Dai-Gohonzon is the only thing we ourselves
cannot make. It is Nichiren Daishonin's
enlightenment, and exists nowhere apart from the successive High
Priests, who are the only ones to receive it. Therefore, the
objects of worship issued by the fellows of the Butsuryu sect
and Minobu have absolutely no power. Since they are
counterfeit, they have absolutely no power. Instead devils
inhabit them. They are inhabited by the power of
devils, and are to be feared. (Daibyaku Renge, No. 98, p.9)"
from "Refuting the Soka Gakkai's Counterfeit Object of Worship: 100
Questions and Answers, p 14" Complied by the Nichiren Shoshu Doctrinal
Research Committee
MarcInMD
and Minobu have absolutely no power. Since they are counterfeit,
they haveabsolutely no power. <<
LOL...All publicity is good...
BTW.. The Daishonin gave exact instructions on how to legitimate a Gohonzon. He
said that they must have an eye open ceremony by someone who fully comprehends
the Lotus Sutra. The exact word he used was "Kokueru" which means full
understanding and Mastery with the whole of ones being...sort of thing.
Naturally, Nichiren did not mention anything about a connection to the so
called "Dai-Gohonzon" at Taisekiji because it did not exist until the Muromuchi
period some 200 years after NIchiren's time and is a complete fraud.
The Nichiren* Sho Shu rejects the Lotus Sutra and says it is "outdated" and has
"lost its power," etc. Therefore, all Nichiren* Sho Shu Mandalas are
consecrated in the context of heresy and are invalid and not what Nichiren had
in mind if you believe what he taught.
_
* Not actually Nichiren Buddhism
Codyespana
>has
>"lost its power," etc. Therefore, all Nichiren* Sho Shu Mandalas are
>consecrated in the context of heresy and are invalid and not what Nichiren
>had
>in mind if you believe what he taught.
No, when viewed from the point of view of the Daishonin's Buddhism, the Lotus
Sutra is valid because now it is complete. Your trip about us "refuting" it is
based on something Toda wrote in a book about Gongyo, not Nichiren Shoshu
doctrine.
Here's something for you to reflect on, Marc:
>Reproduced below for your reference is the Oko lecture given by Rev.
>Nagasaka today at Myosetsuji Temple.
>
>
> Latter Day of the Law
>
>
> Exactly two months ago to the day, America experienced attacks
>of terrorism never before witnessed in this country's history. How
>are we to perceive these events from the perspective of Nichiren
>Daishonin's Buddhism?
>
> As you all know, some three thousand years ago, Shakyamuni
>Buddha handed down eighty-thousand teachings, which were to
>help mankind, both during his lifetime and for the next two
>thousand years after his passing, to attain an enlightened life
>condition of serenity and joy. Even so, the Buddha predicted that
>following the two thousand years of the Former and Middle Days
>of his Buddhism, during the evil age of the Latter Day of the Law,
>his teachings would lose their effectiveness to heal the spiritual
>ills of the world. I have often used the metaphor of medicine
>whose expiration date has passed to explain this phenomenon.
>But it is important that you know that Shakyamuni's teachings did
>not just happen to grow weak or lose their inherent truth. The
>Buddha never lied. Rather, by the time we entered the Latter Day
>of the Law, the world was becoming so polluted by the five
>impurities of the age, man's desires, the people inhabiting this
>planet, men's thoughts and life itself, that the medicine of
>Shakyamuni's teachings was no longer strong enough to fight off
>the sickness that plagued the world. A passage from the
>Daishonin's Reply to Takahashi Nyudo states: "though the words
>of these sutras still remain, they will no longer serve as
>medicine for the illnesses of living beings. The illnesses will be
>too grave, and these medicines too ineffectual."
>
> So with the coming of the Latter Day of the Law, the world
>needed a stronger, more effective Buddhism, if it hoped to
>become well again. This is much like our present need for
>stronger antibiotics and other medicines that combat the various
>new strains of bacteria and viruses that have begun to infect
>people's bodies. Shakyamuni predicted that during that defiled
>latter age, the True Buddha who could bestow the medicine that
>would heal man's ills would make his advent in a land to the
>northeast.
>
> That Buddha was Nichiren Daishonin, who was born almost seven
>hundred and eighty years ago in Japan. The medicine He offered
>is Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, the distillation and actual source of all
>of Shakyamuni's teachings. Along with that greatest of medicines,
>the Daishonin also offered to the Japanese people of His day a
>warning, contained in a writing called the Rissho Ankoku Ron,
>which was supported by Shakyamuni's teachings, and asserted
>that people who could revere Shakyamuni's true Law would
>disappear from the face of the earth during the Latter Day of the
>Law. As a result of this disappearance, the Daishonin predicted
>that the Buddhist heavenly deities who protected the land could
>not be sustained because no one was left to offer them the flavor
>of the true Law. These heavenly deities would therefore be
>forced to abandon those lands and ascend into the heavens.
>Instead, devils and demons would fill the land, which would then
>be assaulted by seven types of disaster, including earthquakes,
>storms and typhoons, drought, famine, epidemics, civil war and
>foreign invasion.
>
> In those days, Japan did not enjoy the affluence of modern
>times. On the contrary, during the Daishonin's lifetime, the
>country was under the military rule of the samurai class, which
>had the power and life and death over the rest of society. Civil
>war erupted and Japan suffered two invasions by the Mongol
>Empire. Parents and children murdered each other. Nearly fifty
>percent of the Japanese population was wiped out due to
>starvation and smallpox. In the midst of such terror, and in
>spite of the risk of execution at Tatsunokuchi and exile to Izu
>and Sado, the Daishonin still dared to propagate True
>Buddhism. Now, although Shakyamuni's Buddhism can no longer
>cure mankind's ills, and even though the Daishonin's Rissho
>Ankoku Ron was specifically written for the Japanese people of
>His day, both Shakyamuni's predictions about the Latter Day of
>the Law and the Daishonin's Rissho Ankoku Ron remain valid
>today.
>
> Afghanistan and Pakistan were formerly Buddhist kingdoms. In
>ancient India, the Buddhist objects of reverence included the
>Three Treasures (the Law, the Buddha and the Priesthood) and
>the sutras. After the Buddha's passing, King Ashoka built one
>hundred stupas; each one standing a hundred feet tall and
>crowned with the heads of four lions that faced the four
>directions. But there were no statues of the Buddha.
>
> However, three hundred years after the Buddha's passing, as his
>teachings spread from India into the regions that include
>Afghanistan and Pakistan, Buddhism was also influenced by the
>simultaneous infusion of ancient Greek ideology, which included
>the glorification of religious deities through sculpture. It is in
>these countries, not in India, that the world first witnessed the
>sculpting and opening of the eyes of statues of the Buddha as
>objects of worship. Hence, the existence, until just recently, of
>the two-hundred-foot statues of the Buddha in the Afghan desert.
>
> Nevertheless, as the Former and Middle Days of Shakyamuni's
>Buddhism drew to a close, so reverence for his teachings also
>faded in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as well as in many areas of
>Southeast Asia. The Buddhist deities departed from Afghanistan
>and Pakistan, the Buddhist statues' eyes were closed, the lands
>were possessed by demons and devils, and the seven disasters
>descended upon these former Buddhist kingdoms, which were
>invaded, and are still ruled today by adherents of Islam.
>
> In more recent times, Afghanistan has been invaded by the former
>Soviet Union, and since the end of that conflict, there has been
>constant civil war between the ruling Taliban in the south and
>insurgent forces in the north. The nation often experiences
>earthquakes and extremes in weather, and drought now threatens
>the entire Afghan population. The biological toxin anthrax is the
>modem threat of pestilence. Meanwhile, the statues of the Buddha,
>which by this time have been reduced in stature to mere artifacts or
>works of art, are being destroyed out of religious zeal. (By the way,
>most of the stupas built by King Ashoka have also been destroyed.)
>
> All of these events prove that we are indeed living in the age
>of Mappo. Our current tragedies should not be viewed as the
>personal evil of a single man or nation. It is not even a war between
>Islam and Buddhism. But true to Shakyamuni's predictions and the
>Daishonin's Rissho Ankoku Ron, Indian Buddhism has no more power
>to cleanse the pollution that stains the entire world. Buddhist deities
>are no longer fed by the flavor of the Law and have returned to the
>heavens. Devils have taken their place and seem to be unstoppable.
>The only true option for the world at this time is the widespread
>adoption of the Daishonin's Three Great Secret Laws. But, for
>example, if any of us were to venture into Afghanistan at this time
>in order to teach the Daishonin's Buddhism, Islamic law would
>demand our immediate execution. Yet, America offers freedom of
>religion. Our opportunity is here, for if we shakubuku Muslims in
>this country and convince them to chant daimoku, they can then
>return to their native lands, whether it be to Afghanistan, Pakistan,
>Indonesia or Malaysia, and shakubuku their fellow countrymen. But
>our efforts must not stop there. Nichiren Shoshu is not allowed in
>countries like India, China or Korea, either. So when we think about
>gathering for our general meeting on December 15th to
>commemorate the 750th anniversary of the establishment of True
>Buddhism, it is not enough to think about our practice as a hobby.
>Our general meeting must mark a reaffirmation of our mission as
>disciples of Nichiren Daishonin. Military, political and economic
>sanctions are not the key to ending the fundamental strife that has
>now erupted in the world. We must delve more deeply, into the realm
>of shakubuku, and no matter what difficulties we may face
>personally, we must not give up.
>
> I would like to invite all of you to the Commemoration of 750th
>Anniversary of Establishment of True Buddhism which will be held at
>the Society for Ethical Culture at 2 West 64th Street (off Central Park
>West in Manhattan) at 2 p.m. on Saturday, December 1, 2001.
Cody
Em Adonyes
"Rachelle Hardy" <raih...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6509-3BF...@storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> "24. What will result from worshipping a counterfeit object of worship?
>
> A counterfeit object of worship posesses the power of devils that
> are hostile toward Buddhism. When someone worships such an object, that
> person will receive actual punishment because of the devils' occult
> powers. Because of the sin of slander of worshipping a counterfeit
> object of worship, the result will be to fall into hell for a very long
> time
this sounds like a really good person would send someone to hell. what
wonderful people you must be.
C
December 1, 2000 Soka Gakkai World Tribune
"The Victorious Future of Mentor and Disciple"
By Daisaku Ikeda
>>
I can see
Those who are like demons
Milling around what,
Unbeknownst to them,
Is only an execution block.
They trample
The noble spirit
Of the Daishonin
And have become
Pitiful robbers of the Law.
Like a rapacious swarm of locusts,
Nikken and his cronies
Have exploited and persecuted
And even plotted to destroy
The Soka Gakkai,
An organization of the highest good
That has made unprecedented contributions
To spreading the Law
And worked so hard
To support and protect the priesthood.
Their evil deeds
Will go down forever in history
And they will be severely judged
According to the law of cause and effect.
This I believe
To be the unwavering position
Of the Daishonin.
It will be just as he states
In the writing "On Persecutions Befalling the Sage":
They "seem to be free from punishment at first,
But eventually they are all doomed to fall"
(The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, p. 997).
The plots and schemes of High Priest Nikken Abe and his cohorts,
Spinning a web of the most base lies
And vicious slander,
Were designed to bring us down.
Yet
We shone on brightly
Like the morning sun!
We rose boldly to the challenge,
And began our battle!
The Daishonin, too,
Was slandered as an immoral priest,
And his struggles amid persecution
Were beyond description.
Our first president Tsunesaburo Makiguchi
Used to strictly remind us
That in comparison
The persecution we encounter
Is truly small and trivial.
With silent forbearance,
The firm resolve demonstrated by the Buddha
Engraved in our hearts,
We waged an arduous struggle
To overcome
Every imaginable
Haughty and arrogant utterance.
We will not be defeated.
We are fed up
With the clamoring and abusive foolishness
Of these spiritual paupers.
In fact, our mighty, passionate spirit
Only burns all the brighter.
They who are
At times frenzied,
At times coldly silent,
At times filled with excuses,
Will eventually depart this world,
Gasping and trembling in fear.
Backsliders in faith!
Are you satisfied
To lead a life
Trapped in a maze
Of hellish depths?
Slanderers of the Law!
Having corrupted the Daishonin's teachings
And veered from the eternal truth,
Are you prepared
To drift along forever in a state of life
Of agonized defeat?
Traitors!
Having turned your backs
On the Daishonin's golden words,
Are you ready
To be burned in the fires
Of the hell of incessant suffering?
To be imprisoned in a cavern
In the hell of extreme cold?
To be shut off in the darkness
Of misery and strife,
Forever deprived of the sun's light?
Richard W. Torgerson
>based on something Toda wrote in a book about Gongyo, not Nichiren Shoshu
>doctrine.
Tell that to the head office. From the nst.org website:
"we recite the Juryo Chapter "for the sake of refutation."" - Explanation of
the Juryo Chapter by Reverend Chodo Ishibashi and Reverend Ryodo Suwa
Regards,
Richard
http://www.butsuryushu.org/
(to reply via e-mail, remove nospam from the address)
mark
Em Adonyes wrote:
>
> this sounds like a really good person would send someone to hell. what
> wonderful people you must be.
The Law of causality is without pity. You make the cause, you get the
effect. All things in life that happen to you are your own karma.
By telling people how they can attain enlightenment is a noble cause
even if you happen to disagree. By coddling someone and letting them do
as they want even if it leads to their downfall is the ultimate in
irrisponsibilty.
You don't let your children do certain things because you are concerned
with their future.
The Law is unforgiving by nature. Does an earthquake morn for it's
victims?
--
Mark Porter
Web application developer (Perl,MySQL)
Rachelle Hardy
*this sounds like a really good person would send someone to hell. what
wonderful people you must be."
In Buddhism, no one can send anyone else to hell without that person's
willing and dedicated participation. We all are responsible for our
own thoughts, words, and deeds. When a Nichiren Shoshu Buddhist makes
such a statement as you excerpted below, we don't exempt ourselves. It
is equally a warning to the believer and the non-believer as well.
As believers, however, we do not consider it loving-kindness to not
mention, for example, that food someone is about to eat has been
tainted. The person may not believe us and eat the food anyway, but at
least we tried to warn them. They and we still have freedom of choice
in the matter either way.
Warmest regards,
Rachelle
Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 11:46pm (EST+5)
From: m...@intaine.pro (Emย Adonyes)
"Rachelle Hardy" <raih...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6509-3BF...@storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
"24. What will result from worshipping a counterfeit object of worship?
ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย A counterfeit object of worship posesses
the power of devils that are hostile toward Buddhism. When someone
worships such an object, that person will receive actual punishment
because of the devils' occult powers. Because of the sin of slander of
worshipping a counterfeit object of worship, the result will be to fall
into hell for a very long time"
Derek N.P.F. Juhl
> Naturally, Nichiren did not mention anything about a connection to the so
> called "Dai-Gohonzon" at Taisekiji because it did not exist until the Muromuchi
> period some 200 years after NIchiren's time and is a complete fraud.
Allegation 1: Mandalas written on boards of this type are typical of
the Hokke fraternities and Hokke Halls of the Muromachi Period (post
1333).
Rebuttal: In "What Fuji School Believers Should Know (Fuji isseki
monto zonchi no koto)," Nikko Shonin writes: "I hear from various
people that some disciples of Nichiren Shonin slight his Gohonzons by
carving some of them into wooden ones and confer them upon those with
no faith. They are Niko, Nitcho, Nisshun and others." Bentetsu Yasui,
the author of "The Wooden Gohonzon Is a Fabrication (Ita Honzon Gisaku
Ron)," who claims the Dai-Gohonzon is counterfeit, uses the above
statement of Nikko's to point out that the second high priest was
strict about creating a wooden Gohonzon. However, in the above
quotation, we find that Nikko Shonin was strict about conferring the
Gohonzon upon non-believers and also that the Daishonin's immediate
disciples such as Niko, Nitcho, Nisshun and others employed the method
of engraving the Daishonin's original Gohonzons onto wood. This fact
indicates that wooden Gohonzons were common during the time of Nikko
Shonin long before the Muromachi period, which invalidates the point
that the wooden Gohonzon couldn't have existed before the Muromachi
period.<<<<<
Derek N.P.F. Juhl
Cody
"Richard W. Torgerson" <rtorg...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20011115215854...@mb-fk.aol.com...
> >Your trip about us "refuting" it is
> >based on something Toda wrote in a book about Gongyo, not Nichiren Shoshu
> >doctrine.
>
> Tell that to the head office. From the nst.org website:
>
> "we recite the Juryo Chapter "for the sake of refutation."" - Explanation
of
> the Juryo Chapter by Reverend Chodo Ishibashi and Reverend Ryodo Suwa
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Richard
Want to quote the whole article? On which NST web site did you get this
quote?
Cody
MarcInMD
I love the cult jargon...
the Lotus Sutra is valid because now it is complete. <<
This is not a Nichiren Buddhist idea. In the Final Age (Mappo) ONLY faith in
the Hokekyo (its essential meaning is contained in it's title) can help people
who lack the initial seed of Buddhahood... Nothing was "Left OUT" of the Lotus
Sutra. It is just that in Mappo, because of the low capacity of the people
living in this age, it must be propagated on the basis of faith rather than by
understanding or Wisdom.
>Your trip about us "refuting" it is
based on something Toda wrote in a book about Gongyo, not Nichiren Shoshu
doctrine.<
Hosrseshit... The Nichiren* Sho Shu says to "refute" the Lotus Sutra"... Toda
didnt just make some off hand comment, he accurately propagated the Nichiren
Sho Shu heresy.
When he first began instructing people, he lectured directly on the Lotus
Sutra. His business was not doing well ( $ $ $ ) so the "Priests" told him it
was because he was giving these lectures and told him to stop preaching from
the Lotus Sutra. They told him the standard NSS line the "Gosho"
( among other things) is the "New" Lotus 'Sutra and he should only teach from
that (which is circular logic since Nichiren urges faith in the Lotus
Sutra...but I digress).
I have a loooong article by Toda giving the standard Nichiren* Sho Shu
redefinition of the Lotus Sutra. "It's the Maka Shikan",,, "Its Saicho's
writings"...
" it's the Gosho"... Its anything good.... He understood Nichiren* Sho Shu
doctrines quite well.
I thought Toda was supposed to be the "Good" SGI guy and Ikeda the "Evi"l SGI
guy in your bitter little feud? Was he good at understanding the Life blood
Lineage and bad on the Lotus Sutra?
Also, how many times have you written that the "Dai-Gohonzon" is the "Lotus
Sutra"
Weak Weak Weak
MarcInMD
quote?
Cody
<
This is all news to you huh?
But then you thought all Gohonzons given out by NSS were copies of the Ita
Mandala
MarcInMD
it. One classic feature is an "us Vs the world" or us Vs them... mentality."
Everyone but us is going to hell". Condemnation of people who are not in the
"group" is common.
In real Nichiren Buddhism the Dharma is seen as ALL INCLUSIVE. All beings have
Buddha Nature and can, in this life, receive and keep ("Ju Ji" ) the seed of
enlightenment.
Even evil doers or people who directly oppose this teaching or Universal
Salvation, i.e.m who oppose the Lotus Sutra's message, still are "Perfumed"
in a manner of speaking, by contact with the Dharma and receive the seed of
their enlightenment.
After that, they may practice and nourish the seed and reach full enlightenment
quickly. Other people may ignore it but keep bumping into opportunities to
practice, while still others try to refute the Lotus Sutra actively (Pure Land
Buddhism, "Nichiren" Sho Shu, etc.)
Those people fall to hell but they fall to hell with the seed of enlightenment.
Even oppositional contact is sufficient. In Buddhism there is no permanent
Hell.
There are only lower worlds that you may end up in (some Hellish) but they are
meant to teach you a lesson and after that you emerge and again bump into
opportunities to practice.
Cody
"MarcInMD" <marc...@aol.com> wrote
> Want to quote the whole article? On which NST web site did you get this
> quote?
>
> Cody
> <
>
> This is all news to you huh?
Give me the url or shut up.
> But then you thought all Gohonzons given out by NSS were copies of the Ita
> Mandala
And they are.
Cody
MarcInMD
> Mandala
And they are.
Cody<
No their not.. Go look at two drawn by differnt HP's , mayb they have a few at
the Ross web page.. Try to fight the programming Cody..
Nikko's own Gohonzons that he drew were typical Gohonzns and not exact
replica's of the DG..That's...because.. it..didnt ..exist ..yet....
Richard W. Torgerson
>quote?
>
>Cody
No I don't want to spread such crap. If you are interested, go to www.nst.org,
the official site for Nichiren Shoshu for the USA. Choose the "Articles" link
and scroll down to "Explanation of the Juryo Chapter". Third Paragraph of the
Conclusion.
Pretty frightening what they think you should be chanting for eh Cody? It's
like a big gigantic "NOT!!" after every phrase.
Ian Stewart
www.nst.org. That was the website that Mr. T recommended I check out.
I did, and I found the same article...here is part of what Richard
quoted:
Excerpted from Explanation of the Juryo Chapter by Reverend Chodo
Ishibashi and Reverend Ryodo Suwa
This chanting of the Daimoku of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is the "primary
practice" for the age of Mappo. The recitation of the Hoben and Juryo
Chapters of the Lotus Sutra is the "supplementary practice," in the
sense that it assists this main practice. As an analogy, would people
be able to enjoy their meals if there were no flavorings for food,
such as salt? It is the food itself that is important and central to
one's diet, but the food would not be good to eat without the
flavoring of salt. Accordingly, in Buddhist practice as well, there is
both the core practice ("primary practice") and the supplementary
practice of reciting the Hoben and Juryo Chapters, which reveal the
truth of the main practice. However, although we call this the "Juryo
Chapter," we do not recite it as the Juryo Chapter of Shakyamuni
Buddha. We recite it from the viewpoint of the teaching of the
Buddhism of sowing hidden in its depths. Furthermore, the significance
of our recitation has two aspects. The first is that we recite the
Juryo Chapter "for the sake of refutation." The second is that we
recite the Juryo Chapter "for the sake of utilization." Once the
doctrine of the Buddhism of sowing hidden in its depths is revealed,
the Juryo Chapter becomes the "Juryo Chapter of the school of the
Buddhism of sowing." However, if viewed from the standpoint of the
Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the Entity of the Law, this is still the
standpoint of a theoretical teaching. Therefore, this theoretical
teaching must be refuted. This is called the recitation of
"refutation." Next, as for utilization, the meaning of the "true seed"
is hidden within the Juryo Chapter, and this is what is utilized. This
we call the recitation of "utilization."
What is the meaning of chanting a portion of ANY sutra if it is for
the purpose of refutation? Again, this is reading into what is
written.
Gassho,
Ian
Cody
"MarcInMD" <marc...@aol.com> wrote
Er, Marc, different High Priests have different hand writings and are
TRANSCRIPTIONS, not copies, of the Dai Gohonzon.
Cody
Cody
"Richard W. Torgerson" <rtorg...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
Here's the quote in context:
However, although we call this the "Juryo Chapter," we do not recite
it as the Juryo Chapter of Shakyamuni Buddha. We recite it from the
viewpoint of the teaching of the Buddhism of sowing hidden in its
depths. Furthermore, the significance of our recitation has two
aspects. The first is that we recite the Juryo Chapter "for the sake of
refutation." The second is that we recite the Juryo Chapter "for the
sake of utilization." Once the doctrine of the Buddhism of sowing
hidden in its depths is revealed, the Juryo Chapter becomes the
"Juryo Chapter of the school of the Buddhism of sowing." However, if
viewed from the standpoint of the Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the
Entity of the Law, this is still the standpoint of a theoretical teaching.
Therefore, this theoretical teaching must be refuted. This is called the
recitation of "refutation." Next, as for utilization, the meaning of the
"true seed" is hidden within the Juryo Chapter, and this is what is
utilized. This we call the recitation of "utilization."
Cody
MarcInMD
The Nichiren* Sho Shu recipe is:
The Shakumon refutes the Nizen, the Honmon refutes the Shakumon and the Daimoku
refutes the Honmon.
This is not authentic to Nichiren's thought at all, where the Buddha of the
Honmon is central as he tells us over and over in the Gosho (quotes available
upon request).
Here is a quote from the jqpublic NSS web site:
"The Juryo chapter is the heart of the Essential Teachings of the Lotus Sutra
and as we recite the true meaning that exists hidden in the depths of the Juryo
chapter, we refute not only the Provisional Teachings of the Lotus Sutra, but
also the Buddhism of the Harvest (of Shakyamuni) and reveal the extremely
profound benefit of Myoho-Renge-Kyo in the depths of the Juryo chapter."
In real Nichiren Buddhism there are three levels. The Buddha's teachings in the
Nizen ( pre-lotus Sutra's), the Buddha's teachings in the Shakumon (the first
half of the Sutra) where the worldly teachings are capped off ('all people have
Buddha Nature even Women," etc.) and then the Buddha of the Honmon, the
Eternal Buddha revealed there.
But in the Nichiren Sho Shu heresy, there is a "fourth Level Buddha" that goes
beyond the Honmon and exists as an inherently existing Buddha in all people.
They slip from real Nichiren Buddhism where any person CAN be a Buddha to All
people ARE ALREADY a Buddha and only need to realize it.
This then quickly devolves into founder worship. If all people are already
Buddha's then the best among us, Nichiren, must be a fully realized Buddha. And
then it devolves further into a xenophobic rejection of the Indian Buddha
(Shakyamuni) as old and dusty and replaces him with the more local Nichiren,
who now becomes "Shakyamuni's teacher" from the long ago past. Until the final
step, Nichiren himself is the Eternal Buddha and Shakyamuni is a cast off, or
"Husk" Buddha. It is Nichiren who climbs into the Treasure Tower and sits next
to Taho, etc.
The Daishonin himself gets deified and we are to pray to Nichiren rather than
take up faith in the Hokekyo as Nichiren recommends. They cover up their
rejection of Nichiren's teachings by worshiping him personally.
Here is more from the NSS web page that clearly shows this backside into
founder worship:
"The fact that the benefit of making praise and offerings to the soul of
Nichiren Daishonin embodied within the Gohonzon together with the Daishonin
himself, provides 10 quadrillion times more benefit than that of making
offerings to the life and body of Shakyamuni Buddha during Shakyamuni's
lifetime, is pointed out in both the Lotus Sutra and the Daishonin's Gosho. "
Founder worship is not taught in the Gosho or Sutra. Nichiren Sho Shu often
says something or another is in the Gosho or Sutra that can not be found there
with ten blood hounds.
mark
Ian Stewart wrote:
>
> Therefore, this theoretical
> teaching must be refuted. This is called the recitation of
> "refutation." Next, as for utilization, the meaning of the "true seed"
> is hidden within the Juryo Chapter, and this is what is utilized. This
> we call the recitation of "utilization."
>
> What is the meaning of chanting a portion of ANY sutra if it is for
> the purpose of refutation? Again, this is reading into what is
> written.
>
I can't offer an explanation that can be said to be true, but maybe
offer a little light.
Since The Lotus Sutra refutes the earlier provisional and transient
teachings, I assume this is what is meant by refutation. Again, I'm not
a priest, but this is what I get from it.
Derek N.P.F. Juhl
> But in the Nichiren Sho Shu heresy, there is a "fourth Level Buddha" that goes
> beyond the Honmon and exists as an inherently existing Buddha in all people.
> They slip from real Nichiren Buddhism where any person CAN be a Buddha to All
> people ARE ALREADY a Buddha and only need to realize it.
This is NOT what Nichiren Shoshu teaches. Once again, you are
engaging your bad habit of telling other people what you *think* they
believe.
Nichiren Shoshu teaches that we possess the Buddha nature, and through
correct faith and practise, we can attain Buddhahood in the present
lifetime.
Derek N.P.F. Juhl
mark
MarcInMD wrote:
>
> Hosrseshit... The Nichiren* Sho Shu says to "refute" the Lotus Sutra"...
Again you believe things written without looking for the meaning. The
meaning of "refutation" refer's to the Lotus Sutra's refutation of
provisional teachings. That is why the Juryo Chapter is recited as
refutation.
"Because living beings have different natures, different desires,
different actions, and different ways of thinking and making distinc-
tions, and because I want to enable them to put down good roots, I
employ a variety of causes and conditions, similes, parables, and
phrases and preach different doctrines. This, the Buddha's work, I
have never for a moment neglected."
"Those children who have not lost their senses can see that this is
good medicine, outstanding in both color and fragrance, so they take
it immediately and are completely cured of their sickness. Those who
are out of their minds are equally delighted to see their father
return
and beg him to cure their sickness, but when they are given the
medicine, they refuse to take it. Why? Because the poison has pene-
trated deeply and their minds no longer function as before. So al-
though the medicine is of excellent color and fragrance, they do not
perceive it as good."
My two cents based on critical thinking skills!! ยง:-)
MarcInMD
>Again you believe things written without looking for the meaning.
The "meaning" is that Nichiren Sho Shu says to look beyond the Honmon section
of the Lotus Sutra ( "the Daimoku smashes the Honmon"..) That is not Nichiren's
teaching at all. I will post a few Gosho quotes over the weekend as I have
time and let Nichiren's own words settle the matter. In the meantime, please
read what I posted earlier. Here it is again:
The Nichiren* Sho Shu recipe is:
' The Shakumon smashes the Nizen, the Honmon smashes the Shakumon and the
Daimoku smashes the Honmon.'
This is not authentic to Nichiren's thought at all, where the Buddha of the
Honmon is central, as he tells us over and over in the Gosho (quotes available
upon request).
Here is a quote from the jqpublic Nichiren* Sho Shu web site:
"The Juryo chapter is the heart of the Essential Teachings of the Lotus Sutra
and as we recite the true meaning that exists hidden in the depths of the Juryo
chapter, we refute not only the Provisional Teachings of the Lotus Sutra, but
also the Buddhism of the Harvest (of Shakyamuni) and reveal the extremely
profound benefit of Myoho-Renge-Kyo in the depths of the Juryo chapter."
In real Nichiren Buddhism there are three levels. The Buddha's teachings in the
Nizen ( pre-lotus Sutra's), the Buddha's teachings in the Shakumon (the first
half of the Sutra) where the worldly teachings are capped off ('all people have
Buddha Nature even Women," etc.) and then the Buddha of the Honmon, the
Eternal Buddha revealed there.
But in the Nichiren Sho Shu heresy, there is a "fourth Level Buddha" that goes
beyond the Honmon and exists as an inherently existing Buddha in all people.
They slip from real Nichiren Buddhism where any person CAN be a Buddha to All
people ARE ALREADY a Buddha and only need to realize it.
This then quickly devolves into founder worship. If all people are already
Buddha's then the best among us, Nichiren, must be a fully realized Buddha. And
then it devolves further into a xenophobic rejection of the Indian Buddha
(Shakyamuni) as old and dusty and replaces him with the more local Nichiren,
who now becomes "Shakyamuni's teacher" from the long ago past. Until the final
step, Nichiren himself is the Eternal Buddha and Shakyamuni is a cast off, or
"Husk" Buddha. It is Nichiren who climbs into the Treasure Tower and sits next
to Taho, etc.
The Daishonin himself gets deified and we are to pray to Nichiren rather than
take up faith in the Hokekyo as Nichiren recommends. They cover up their
rejection of Nichiren's teachings by worshiping him personally.
Here is more from the NSS web page that clearly shows this backside into
founder worship:
"The fact that the benefit of making praise and offerings to the soul of
Nichiren Daishonin embodied within the Gohonzon together with the Daishonin
himself, provides 10 quadrillion times more benefit than that of making
offerings to the life and body of Shakyamuni Buddha during Shakyamuni's
lifetime, is pointed out in both the Lotus Sutra and the Daishonin's Gosho. "
Founder worship is not taught in the Gosho or Sutra. Nichiren Sho Shu often
says something or another is in the Gosho or Sutra that can not be found there
with ten blood hounds.
___
* Not really Nichiren Buddhism
mark
MarcInMD wrote:
>
> But in the Nichiren Sho Shu heresy, there is a "fourth Level Buddha" that goes
> beyond the Honmon and exists as an inherently existing Buddha in all people.
> They slip from real Nichiren Buddhism where any person CAN be a Buddha to All
> people ARE ALREADY a Buddha and only need to realize it.
>
Yes, the buddha nature already exists in you. This is the essence of th
Lotus Sutra => the essence of your life. It exists in everyone and in
everything down to the microcosm and up to the macrocosm.
The True Entity of Life
(Major Writings, p. 89-95 Gosho Zenshu p. 1358)
Question: In the Hoben chapter of Volume One of the Lotus Sutra is the
passage: "The true entity of all phenomena can only be understood and
shared between Buddhas. This reality consists of the appearance,
nature...and their consistency from beginning to end." What does this
mean?
Answer: It means that all beings and their environments in any of the
Ten Worlds, from Hell at the lowest to Buddhahood at the highest, are,
without exception, the manifestations of Myoho-renge-kyo. Where there is
an environment, there is life within it. Miao-lo states, "Both life
(shoho) and its environment (eho) always manifest Myoho-renge-kyo." He
also states, "The true entity is invariably revealed in all phenomena,
and all phenomena invariably possess the Ten Factors. The Ten Factors
invariably function within the Ten Worlds, and the Ten Worlds invariably
entail both life and its environment." And, "Both the life and
environment of Hell exist within the life of Buddha. On the other hand,
the life and environment of Buddha do not transcend the lives of common
mortals." Such precise explanations leave no room for doubt. Thus, all
life in the universe is clearly Myoho-renge-kyo. Even the two Buddhas,
Shakyamuni and Taho, are functions of Myoho-renge-kyo who appeared to
bestow its blessings upon mankind. They manifested themselves as the two
Buddhas and, seated together in the Treasure Tower, nodded in mutual
agreement.
mark
"Richard W. Torgerson" wrote:
>
>
> Pretty frightening what they think you should be chanting for eh Cody? It's
> like a big gigantic "NOT!!" after every phrase.
>
You guys really should look beyond words and try to get the meaning.
The Buddha speaks on more than one level in everything he says. If you
don't have the critical thinking skills to figure out what he means then
you need to go elsewhere.
Cody, and you also, possess the buddha nature. Even the rocks you throw
into the ocean possess the buddha nature.
Matter is the same in all forms. The basic substance, eg; atoms and
their particles, exist in all forms. The only ingrediant needed to make
life is cause and effect. The right place at the right time!
Richard W. Torgerson
Parse the meaning of these words then:
"However, although we call this the "Juryo Chapter," we do not recite
it as the Juryo Chapter of Shakyamuni Buddha. We recite it from the
viewpoint of the teaching of the Buddhism of sowing hidden in its
depths. Furthermore, the significance of our recitation has two
aspects. The first is that we recite the Juryo Chapter "for the sake of
refutation." The second is that we recite the Juryo Chapter "for the
sake of utilization." Once the doctrine of the Buddhism of sowing
hidden in its depths is revealed, the Juryo Chapter becomes the
"Juryo Chapter of the school of the Buddhism of sowing." However, if
viewed from the standpoint of the Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the
Entity of the Law, this is still the standpoint of a theoretical teaching.
Therefore, this theoretical teaching must be refuted. This is called the
recitation of "refutation." Next, as for utilization, the meaning of the
"true seed" is hidden within the Juryo Chapter, and this is what is
utilized. This we call the recitation of "utilization."
Explanation of the Juryo Chapter by Reverend Chodo Ishibashi and Reverend Ryodo
Suwa
This is quite obviously a rhetorical device to explain away the inconsistencies
between the Lotus Sutra (the real one) and Nichiren Shoshu doctrines, which are
only found "hidden in the depths".
No thanks. I'll take the real thing thank you very much.
MarcInMD
>Lotus Sutra => the essence of your life. It exists in everyone and in
>everything down to the microcosm and up to the macrocosm.<
What you are mistaking for Nichiren Buddhism is a theory called "Hongaku Shi
So". It had an influence on Nichiren without doubt, but it is not the basis for
his teachings. It is a theory that absolutely affirms the World and confuses
the Buddha Nature ( capacity for enlightenment) for "The Buddha." The common
person becomes the "real" Buddha or "The Buddha Nature is the Buddha".
In authentic Nichiren Buddhism, we find a Buddha that transcends the world but
also can exist within your life. That is something different, it is a
"Pan-entheism" i.e. "All is in the Buddha and the Buddha is in all".
There is a distinct set of Goshos that preach the Hongaku idea. Not a one of
them exists in the original. Most scholars dismiss them out of hand as
forgeries, included in the corpus of Nichiren texts after his death , just when
this idea of Hongaku became very very popular in Japan.
The Text "True Entity" is widely considered a forgery. We have discussed it
here on arbn several times before you got here. It is thought to have three
separate authors, only one being Nichiren who wrote only the first section. It
is believed that some other person who came along much later, got this fragment
written by Nichiren and then added to it, wedging in these Hongaku notions and
then a third writer added the last section,
No where in any of Nichiren's authenticated texts does he preach the full blown
Hongaku formulation that SGI and NST members love so much. His solution to how
the pure realm of existence can exist in the world of humans was NOT because
"everyone was already a Buddha" ( deep on the inside). Nichiren's solution,
preached in the Kanjin Honzon Sho and other central Gosho, was "receiving and
keeping ("Ju Ji") the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra. When you "receive and keep"
the Buddha appears in your life. He never said "the real Buddha is your life".
That idea is only preached in Gosho that are very dubious in terms of their
authenticity.
Hope that helped.
mark
"Richard W. Torgerson" wrote:
>
> ??You guys really should look beyond words and try to get the meaning.??
>
> Parse the meaning of these words then:
>
> "However, although we call this the "Juryo Chapter," we do not recite
> it as the Juryo Chapter of Shakyamuni Buddha. We recite it from the
> viewpoint of the teaching of the Buddhism of sowing hidden in its
> depths. Furthermore, the significance of our recitation has two
> aspects. The first is that we recite the Juryo Chapter "for the sake of
> refutation." The second is that we recite the Juryo Chapter "for the
> sake of utilization." Once the doctrine of the Buddhism of sowing
> hidden in its depths is revealed, the Juryo Chapter becomes the
> "Juryo Chapter of the school of the Buddhism of sowing." However, if
> viewed from the standpoint of the Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the
> Entity of the Law, this is still the standpoint of a theoretical teaching.
> Therefore, this theoretical teaching must be refuted. This is called the
> recitation of "refutation." Next, as for utilization, the meaning of the
> "true seed" is hidden within the Juryo Chapter, and this is what is
> utilized. This we call the recitation of "utilization."
> Explanation of the Juryo Chapter by Reverend Chodo Ishibashi and Reverend Ryodo
> Suwa
>
> This is quite obviously a rhetorical device to explain away the inconsistencies
> between the Lotus Sutra (the real one) and Nichiren Shoshu doctrines, which are
> only found "hidden in the depths".
>
> No thanks. I'll take the real thing thank you very much.
>
Read the Juryo chapter and you'll find that it refutes the provisional
doctrines that Shakyamuni taught. Thats why we recite it as refutation.
You guys aren't priests. You don't have the training and I'm not sure
you even know what it takes to be a priest. Our priests study from the
time they were children to adult about buddhism. They earn degree's. You
guys have no degree in buddhism do you?
Cody
"mark" <m...@imchat.com> wrote in message news:3BF67631...@imchat.com...
Don't forget that Marc Strumpf is a lay priest. Here are some of his more
profound statements:
"dare ya"
Marc Strumpf
"choke on it"
MarInMD hBS lay "priest"
Honmon Butsuryushu is a sect of Buddhism based on the teachings of
Shakyamuni Buddha (approx. 500 B.C.E.) as revealed in the Lotus Sutra."
hBS website
"Youre and asshole"
MarcInMD hBS head lay "priest"
"Why don't you realize these assholes will never beleive anything you
say... If you say "honzon" they'll say but he doesn't say "GOhonzon". You
keep
getting into arguments with fanatics who are not right in their minds."
Graham Lamont, official hBS "scholar"
"Horse shit"
MarcInMD
"There is nothing theoretically invalid about a Gohonzon written on a
napkin if it is drawn out correctly and properly consicreted"
MarcInMD
"The Calligraphic Gohonzn is indeed a gohonzon and Nichiren's master
work. It's superior to the Statue arrangement for many reasons."
MarcInMD
"Youre and idiot"
Marc Stumpf, hBS "lay priest"
"Youre and moron"
Marc Stumpf, hBS "lay priest"
Cody
"MarcInMD" <marc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011117090622...@mb-mo.aol.com...
You see, Mark, Marc and his fellow blasphemists, will holler "forgery!"
whenever you quote a Gosho that goes against their weird idea that Skayamuni
is a "Buddha in the sky" who will enter your life and plant a seed.
Personally, the concept of our always having been a Buddha makes much more
sense. Then again, what do you expect from a "lay priest" who makes comments
like these:
--
MarcInMD
whenever you quote a Gosho that goes against their weird idea that Skayamuni
is a "Buddha in the sky" who will enter your life and plant a seed.<
I have never "YELLED" forgery about a Gosho that is not commonly considered as
such by the length and breadth of Modern Nichiren Buddhist Scholarship. If you
are going to base you idea's on a Gosho like this, there is information you
ought to have about it and then proceed with extreme caution.
None of these Hongaku texts are listed in the 10 Gosho recommended by Nikko for
example. They did not yet exist. They appear in none of the early indexes of
Nichiren's texts and there are no early copies by people like Nikko. Sometimes
they are found to be nearly exact rip offs of Tendai Shu Hongaku texts with the
Daimoku wedged in.
If you base you religion on those texts, you are pretty shaky ground,
authenticity wise..
Cody is just a full blown Ichantika and is so mired in hate and aggression that
no argument is going to wake him up. He is not an honest person
Personally, the concept of our always having been a Buddha makes much more
sense.<
May be.. Just dont call it Nichiren Buddhism..
>> Then again, what do you expect from a "lay priest" who makes comments
like these:<
Pretty amazing coming from Michael Cody who just a few days ago wrote:
"Are you still selling your wife on 14th Street Marc?"
Cody
"MarcInMD" <marc...@aol.com> wrote
> Pretty amazing coming from Michael Cody who just a few days ago wrote:
>
> "Are you still selling your wife on 14th Street Marc?"
And why did I say that, Marc? Was it because you were asking denigrating
rhetorical questions regarding True Buddhism, Nichiren Shoshu, per chance?
Did you get my point? Doesn't seem like it.
Cody
MarcInMD
Cody<,
Translation..
Cody is busted.. He's real fast to criticize stuff he does himself (in spades).
It's like he cant remember anything from one day to the next.
Cody
> > Pretty amazing coming from Michael Cody who just a few days ago wrote:
> >
> > "Are you still selling your wife on 14th Street Marc?"
>
> And why did I say that, Marc? Was it because you were asking denigrating
> rhetorical questions regarding True Buddhism, Nichiren Shoshu, per chance?
> Did you get my point? Doesn't seem like it.
>
> Cody<,
>
> Translation..
Real translation:
Marc didn't get my point.
>
> Cody is busted.. He's real fast to criticize stuff he does himself (in
spades).
> It's like he cant remember anything from one day to the next.
Just can't help it, can you? You just have to end your post with an insult.
--
Cody
I live the life I love and I love the life I live.
-Willie Dixon
To reply by email, change "net" to "com"
MarcInMD
Marc didn't get my point.
There was a point? How fould I have missed it? I just thought it was another
one of your cude ad hominem attacks to avoid making any sort of serious point.
You cant jump on me for saying
"Dare ya" and then try to rationalize insulting my wife..
You couldnt afford her, btw..