How to wait three months
Robin Munn
for perusal. Publication date: May 2002. Dammit, how am I supposed to
wait three months?
The pages are up at baen.com. I will not post a direct link, since
anyone who hasn't read Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan series should not even
read the first three paragraphs, as they contain major spoilers.
Instead, run, don't walk, down to your local bookstore and purchase:
_Shards of Honor_
_Barrayar_
(the previous two can be found in one volume as _Cordelia's Honor_)
_The Warrior's Apprentice_
_The Vor Game_
(the previous two, along with one short story that chronologically
happens in between the two novels, can be found in one volume as
_Young Miles_)
_Cetaganda_
_Borders of Infinity_
_Brothers in Arms_
_Mirror Dance_
_Memory_
_Komarr_
_A Civil Campaign_
And read them in the order given. Not, I repeat *NOT*, in any other
order.
ISBN's? I'm too lazy. All of the above were written by Lois McMaster
Bujold -- *you* go look up ISBN's, if you're that obsessed with them.
And yes, apostrophe-ess is the correct way of pluralizing an acronym.
Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
all loaned out right now. Dammit.
--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com
Mike Andrews
: Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
: all loaned out right now. Dammit.
Robin! Put the keyboard down and back away.
Listen to me, now.
You were supposed to loan out the _loaner_ set. Only that set.
Got it?
--
"And now the traveler's weather report from Luna: Dayside will be
hot, dry, and clear. Nightside will be cold, dry and clear.
Please dress accordingly."
-- Danny Sichel, in rasfw
D. Joseph Creighton
}Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
}: Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
}: all loaned out right now. Dammit.
}
}Robin! Put the keyboard down and back away.
}
}Listen to me, now.
}
}You were supposed to loan out the _loaner_ set. Only that set.
}
}Got it?
Such a calming tone. And what clarity.
I nominate MikeA to be the official Tense Situation[1] Negotiator for the
Monastery.
[1] Hostage negotiation? Ha! The only arguments there are how to finish
the luser off and, perhaps, how to dispose of the body. But we've already
done that thread.
--
"Lead me not into temptation; I can find the way myself." - Rita Mae Brown
D. Joseph Creighton [ESTP] | Systems Analyst, Database Technologies, IST
Joe_Cr...@UManitoba.CA | University of Manitoba Winnipeg, MB, Canada, eh?
Robin Munn
>Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>: Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
>: all loaned out right now. Dammit.
>
>Robin! Put the keyboard down and back away.
>
>Listen to me, now.
>
>You were supposed to loan out the _loaner_ set. Only that set.
>
>Got it?
You're right, of course; what was I thinking, having only one set? I
shall run, not walk, to the bookstore and remedy this mistake
immediately. Well, once I'm home from work, anyway.
--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrna5tor...@rmunn.dyndns.org>, on 02/04/2002
at 07:42 PM, rm...@pobox.com (Robin Munn) said:
>Bujold's latest, _Diplomatic Immunity_, now has three sample chapters
>up for perusal. Publication date: May 2002. Dammit, how am I supposed
>to wait three months?
The same as the rest of us. Like the cat that ate a chunk of cheese
and sat by the mouse hole waiting withe baited breathe. I endorse your
recommendation that those who have not read the earlier stories do so
now. Most enjoyable. There was one scene in particular[1] that was
hilarious[2].
[1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
"Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
[2] No, these are not comic novels. But there is some humor,
especially in the last one.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
"He was born with a gift of laughter,
and a sense that the world was mad."
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <a3mtql$otm$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, on 02/04/2002
at 09:18 PM, d...@cc.umanitoba.ca (D. Joseph Creighton) said:
>[1] Hostage negotiation?
If I'm ever in that situation I want the negotiations to be done by
snipers. I may not survive, but when I die I'll have an honor guard.
Pay no ransom and take no prisoners.
Mike Andrews
: I nominate MikeA to be the official Tense Situation[1] Negotiator for the
: Monastery.
Fsc^WThank you very much.
: [1] Hostage negotiation? Ha! The only arguments there are how to finish
: the luser off and, perhaps, how to dispose of the body. But we've already
: done that thread.
We don't do hostage negotiation. At the point that one or more
people are taken hostage, we start behaving as if they're dead
already. This is reasonable since we have no control over the
actions of the hostage-takers, and they have shown themselves
amoral and willing to do anything.
So we go in with fire and sword and clean out the hostage-takers.
Every time.
IIRC, this is roughly the way the Soviet armed forces handled
such things, and it was effective.
--
You're not missing anything, unless you
*want* a deodorant that saves time by smelling like sweat already.
-- Red Drag Diva, in a.s.r.
David P. Murphy
(discussing Bujold's works)
> [1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
> "Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
Similarly, Weber's "Bbcf."
ok
dpm
--
David P. Murphy http://www.myths.com/~dpm/
systems programmer ftp://ftp.myths.com
mailto:d...@myths.com (personal)
COGITO ERGO DISCLAMO mailto:Murphy...@emc.com (work)
Robin Munn
>"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>(discussing Bujold's works)
>
>> [1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
>> "Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
>
>Similarly, Weber's "Bbcf."
Amen to that. Vg'f nyjnlf gur dhvrg barf... :-)
--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com
Robin Munn
<spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>In <slrna5tor...@rmunn.dyndns.org>, on 02/04/2002
> at 07:42 PM, rm...@pobox.com (Robin Munn) said:
>
>>Bujold's latest, _Diplomatic Immunity_, now has three sample chapters
>>up for perusal. Publication date: May 2002. Dammit, how am I supposed
>>to wait three months?
>
>The same as the rest of us. Like the cat that ate a chunk of cheese
>and sat by the mouse hole waiting withe baited breathe. I endorse your
>recommendation that those who have not read the earlier stories do so
>now. Most enjoyable. There was one scene in particular[1] that was
>hilarious[2].
>
>[1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
>"Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
I rather enjoyed the scene where Zvyrf tvirf n qvaare cnegl naq
*rirelguvat* tbrf jebat. "Zl qvaare cnegl. Vg'f whfg oernxvat hc." (Naq
fvaxvat. Nyy fbhyf srnerq ybfg.) [...] "Zbz, Qnq, V'q yvxr lbh gb zrrg
-- fur'f trggvat njnl!"
I'd better stop before I start quoting the entire series.
[2] NMF
--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com
cfo...@bbn.com
> Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> : Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
> : all loaned out right now. Dammit.
>
> Robin! Put the keyboard down and back away.
>
> Listen to me, now.
>
> You were supposed to loan out the _loaner_ set. Only that set.
>
> Got it?
<gloat>
I have the Easton press signed first editions of Barrayar and ACC.
</gloat>
I've even loaned them to trusted[0] friends.
Hell, I have Barrayar on my prism, in case I find myself too far
from the bookshelf :).
Great books. I would also recommend The Curse of Chalion, to pass
the time till Diplomatic Immunity comes out. Totally different,
but the same, IYGMM.
Chris
0. trusted --> Understands that violence would ensue if anything
untoward were to happen to my books.
--
Christopher Fortin, Ph.D. EE, Senior_Scientist@BBN <par...@elderhome.org>
"You need to hit them with the Clue by four"
Maarten Wiltink
[...]
>So we go in with fire and sword and clean out the hostage-takers.
>Every time.
>
>IIRC, this is roughly the way the Soviet armed forces handled
>such things, and it was effective.
Ahum. Controlling the press might be a prerequisite.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
D. Joseph Creighton
You've read _Rainbow Six_ too, then?
--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- A. C. Clarke
Mike Andrews
: Mike Andrews wrote in message ...
Fsck the press, or put a "we do this so our people won't be taken
hostage. there's no return in it, and a huge downside" spin on
it. That's the truth, too, in that scenario.
--
Remember the signs in restaurants "We reserve the right to refuse
service to anyone"? The spammers twist it around to say "we reserve
the right to serve refuse to anyone."
-- SPAMJAMR & Blackthorn in nanae
David P. Murphy
> anyone who hasn't read Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan series (blahblahblah)
That would be me.
> (list of books)
> And read them in the order given. Not, I repeat *NOT*, in any other
> order.
That was right neighborly of you. Fortunately the Fairfax County
Public Library system is good enough to stock all of those. I'm
up to page 89 of _Shards_ right now. Yes, of course I checked out
all of them at once. I'm not gonna go through withdrawal just
because I finish the first three and the fourth isn't available!
Jay Maynard
>(discussing Bujold's works)
>> [1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
>> "Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
>Similarly, Weber's "Bbcf."
I've read this, but can't place it. I've been meaning to dig out the Honor
Harrington series for a reread...but that can wait until after I've finished
The Shiva Option. Saw it in hardback at an airport bookstore yesterday, and
had to grab it.
J. Michael Looney
jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx says...
"Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
>>Similarly, Weber's "Bbcf."
>
>I've read this, but can't place it. I've been meaning to dig out the Honor
>Harrington series for a reread...but that can wait until after I've finished
>The Shiva Option. Saw it in hardback at an airport bookstore yesterday, and
>had to grab it.
Nfurf bs Ivpgbel. Funeba, gur CEA "trrx tvey" whfg oyrj hc gur PCF
"jngpuqbt" syrrg
Robin Munn
>Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> anyone who hasn't read Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan series (blahblahblah)
>
>That would be me.
>
>> (list of books)
>
>> And read them in the order given. Not, I repeat *NOT*, in any other
>> order.
>
>That was right neighborly of you. Fortunately the Fairfax County
>Public Library system is good enough to stock all of those. I'm
>up to page 89 of _Shards_ right now. Yes, of course I checked out
>all of them at once. I'm not gonna go through withdrawal just
>because I finish the first three and the fourth isn't available!
No, you're going to go through withdrawal just because you finished the
first ten and the eleventh isn't available.
And you thought that I thought this was a.s.n-n, didn't you? No, I've
just made sure that in a week, two at the most, you'll be suffering
along with the rest of us... Mwuahahahahaaaa!!!
--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com
David P. Murphy
You have vastly overestimated the amount of CFT I possess.
Besides, the n-n part was telling me (and others) the proper order.
Robin Munn
>Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> And you thought that I thought this was a.s.n-n, didn't you? No, I've
>> just made sure that in a week, two at the most, you'll be suffering
>> along with the rest of us... Mwuahahahahaaaa!!!
>
>You have vastly overestimated the amount of CFT I possess.
>Besides, the n-n part was telling me (and others) the proper order.
Nah, that wasn't n-n, that was just making sure things were done
properly. It Would Be Wrong to allow anyone to read Bujold out of order.
And as for the amount of CFT, just wait and watch as that series starts
devouring your sleep time...
--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com
David P. Murphy
> Nah, that wasn't n-n, that was just making sure things were done
> properly. It Would Be Wrong to allow anyone to read Bujold out of order.
Oh, similar to telling someone to run Apache instead of IIS? I see.
> And as for the amount of CFT, just wait and watch as that series starts
> devouring your sleep time...
Bah. What do you think Connor's purpose in life is?[1]
[1] anyone who thinks I'm just trying to be funny and/or clever is
welcome to raise a one-year-old, because obviously you haven't yet.
Satya
>Bah. What do you think Connor's purpose in life is?[1]
Hmm. Anyone's BOFHlet(s) tried posting here yet?
--
Satya.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrna65vfk...@rmunn.dyndns.org>, on 02/07/2002
at 10:24 PM, rm...@pobox.com (Robin Munn) said:
>Nah, that wasn't n-n, that was just making sure things were done
>properly. It Would Be Wrong to allow anyone to read Bujold out of
>order.
Then she done us wrong, because she wrote them out of order. And
there's one more out-of-order novel that I'd love to have her write.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <6gf88.428$QQ1.4...@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net>, on 02/06/2002
at 07:14 PM, cfo...@bbn.com said:
>Great books. I would also recommend The Curse of Chalion, to pass
>the time till Diplomatic Immunity comes out. Totally different, but
>the same, IYGMM.
I don't agree that it's the same, but I'm hesitant to give too much
away for those who haven't read it. He has a totally different
personality from Miles, and his bete noir is different.
David P. Murphy
> Word has it that on Fri, 8 Feb 2002 17:58:30 +0000, in this august
> forum, sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net (Satya) said:
> Well, I expect to be giving Patrick his first computer some time in the
> next year, so I won't be greatly surprised if I get Vickified shortly
> afterwards.
Lindsay is much too social a creature to know anything about computers
other than the usual luser stuff, while Heather is too athletically
inclined to care. Connor needs more time, but he does enjoy bashing
keyboards and old NICs with great force, so while I know not how far
he'll go, at least he's facing the right direction.
"See Spot run. Run, Spot, run! All software sucks, Jane."
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrna62mpg...@rmunn.dyndns.org>, on 02/06/2002
at 04:38 PM, rm...@pobox.com (Robin Munn) said:
>I rather enjoyed the scene where Zvyrf tvirf n qvaare cnegl naq
>*rirelguvat* tbrf jebat. "Zl qvaare cnegl. Vg'f whfg oernxvat hc."
>(Naq fvaxvat. Nyy fbhyf srnerq ybfg.) [...] "Zbz, Qnq, V'q yvxr lbh
>gb zrrg -- fur'f trggvat njnl!"
I thought that gur nsgrezngu bs gur phfgbql onggyr was more
entertaining, especially gur ernffvtazrag.
J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Anthony de Boer - USEnet <ab...@leftmind.net>
wrote:
> And anyone who thinks one-year-olds are An Issue hasn't really
> thought ahead yet to The Creeping Horror That Lies Beyond The Second
> Birthday, or more likely is blocking that bit out.
YM "Toddling Horror" I think.
When they're still "creeping" they're cute and more or less still
controllable.[1]
[1] In the "everything is relative" sense.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / bal...@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <a456to$p9m$2...@reader2.panix.com>, on 02/10/2002
at 07:19 AM, INVALID...@example.com (J.D. Baldwin) said:
>When they're still "creeping" they're cute and more or less still
>controllable.[1]
>[1] In the "everything is relative" sense.
Every time someone says "I don't believe in theories.", another
theory dies. A creeper can get into more than you would ever believe.
Tanuki the Raccoon-dog
<INVALID...@example.com> said
>YM "Toddling Horror" I think.
>
>When they're still "creeping" they're cute and more or less still
>controllable.[1]
>
>[1] In the "everything is relative" sense.
Though the use of electric fences to control their movements is likely
to result in unfavourable comments...
Personally, I think that kids are like wines - only very few of them
actually get better with age.
--
!Raised Tails! -:Tanuki:-
"I have seen the future, and it drools"
jgut...@brokersys.com
Rhiannon is 5 and has been sort-of reading for some time, but I expect
it'll be, oh, eight or so years before I have to worry about her doing
Usenet. Robert is only three, so I expect it'll be about ten years.
Doing Usenet requires more than just the ability to read.
In twenty, I expect I'll be hearing on a regular basis about the things
I've said here.
--
Jonathan Guthrie (jgut...@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate
Alan J Rosenthal
><nods> Hell, mine manages to get into trouble just by *rolling*,
Giggle, yes. I was astonished, when Jeremy was not yet able to crawl, that he
somehow managed to move across the room, eventually. He'd be getting into
something he wasn't supposed to, I'd pick him up and plonk him at the other
side of the room, he'd continue doing his baby things, but then amazingly in
several minutes he'd be back on the bad side of the room.
("There is no bad side of the room really. Matter of fact it's all bad.")
The other thing I recall, from a bit later on, is how we removed all
books from the bottom shelves... then a little later we removed all
books from the second-to-bottom shelves... and so on... and when we moved,
we didn't bother unpacking most of the boxes of books...
david parsons
Tanuki the Raccoon-dog <Tanuki@canis-^Hmajor.da^Hemon.co.uk> wrote:
>In <a456to$p9m$2...@reader2.panix.com>, J.D. Baldwin
><INVALID...@example.com> said
>>YM "Toddling Horror" I think.
>>
>>When they're still "creeping" they're cute and more or less still
>>controllable.[1]
>>
>>[1] In the "everything is relative" sense.
>
>Though the use of electric fences to control their movements is likely
>to result in unfavourable comments...
For about a week, and then the firemen will just laugh at you after
they put out the fire that was caused by the Pedestrian Of The
Apocolypse shorting out the fence with a metal chair (or whatever
else makes a durable ground.)
Your only hope is to keep moving things above the slime line until
they learn a language and are able to be reasoned with.
____
david parsons \bi/ This happens about 25 years after birth.
\/
Stuart Lamble
> Your only hope is to keep moving things above the slime line until
> they learn a language and are able to be reasoned with.
>
> ____
> david parsons \bi/ This happens about 25 years after birth.
> \/
Really? My parents are still waiting for the day with me. (I'm 26.)
*ducks*
--
"You didn't slay the dragon?!"
"It's on my to-do list, now come on!"
-- Shrek.
David P. Murphy
> Alan J Rosenthal muttered:
>>The other thing I recall, from a bit later on, is how we removed all
>>books from the bottom shelves... then a little later we removed all
>>books from the second-to-bottom shelves... and so on... and when we moved,
>>we didn't bother unpacking most of the boxes of books...
> We just allowed her to own the bottom two shelves. All her books (about
> two meters of shelf so far) and many toys live on the living room
> bookshelves.
> Get more shelf space, give up the lower parts.
SWMBO and I completely renovated the kitchen recently (worthy of a few
lengthy rants in itself, but not now, the pain still cuts) because a friend
gave us her cabinets[1]. It took a lot of skull sweat[2] to design the
optimal placement of the replacements and an equal number of new ones[3]
along with new appliances[4] and countertop[5]. The last sore spot was
near the door to the dining room; a touch of inspiration at the last minute
was a rounded corner with shelves dedicated to Connor. It's worked out
wonderfully . . . he loves to keep his little cars and trucks there to
play with while Mom is fixing meals (it's just the right height) and it
makes the other cabinets look like they were designed for the room.
http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg
[1] She worked at AOL at just the right time and did smart things
with her options --- she'll never work again. She purchased
a large house, decided that she didn't like the perfectly good
kitchen and gutted it; the cabinets which weren't up to her
standards were *much* nicer than our existing cabinets and
just as good as any new ones we could afford to buy, except
for slight tarnishing on the hinges.
[2] Note the influence of the current RAH thread on my vocabulary.
[3] One bright note was the cabinet company did an excellent job
matching wood, color and pattern.
[4] In for a penny . . .
[5] Holy shit, corian is expensive! And it's _still_ cheaper than granite!
David P. Murphy
> http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg
$ tail -f access_log
tomato.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net - - [15/Feb/2002:11:18:21 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
204.177.130.13 - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:08 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
ct37111-a.nblvil1.in.home.com - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:57 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
This always impresses me . . . that it propogates so quickly,
that someone is reading so soon after I post, and that they're
interested enough to download a 70 Kb image.
Mike Andrews
:> http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg
: $ tail -f access_log
: tomato.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net - - [15/Feb/2002:11:18:21 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
: 204.177.130.13 - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:08 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
: ct37111-a.nblvil1.in.home.com - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:57 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
: This always impresses me . . . that it propogates so quickly,
: that someone is reading so soon after I post, and that they're
: interested enough to download a 70 Kb image.
_Damn, that's _nice_! And that's the cabinetry she junked? The
stuff she got must be extraordinary. Maybe it's even put together
with screws, unlike the supposedly top-of-the-line stuff we got
15 (That long ago!?!) years back, which turned out to be held
together with hot glue and long, skinny staples. IIRC, it's
someone's "Saturn" line.
It's fine, once you pull all the handles off, scrape 'em down,
and reglue with Titebond or equivalent. I haven't had to put any
drawers or shelves back together yet ... .
And as for reading a 70KB file -- that's teeny.
--
"Salesman genes. Lies built right into the DNA."
-- Walter Jon Williams, _Whirlwind_
Peter Corlett
> This always impresses me . . . that it propogates so quickly, that someone
> is reading so soon after I post, and that they're interested enough to
> download a 70 Kb image.
I noticed this in $OTHER_PLACE. I had about ten visitors within as many
minutes, followed by a post that pretty much confirmed that I should see a
shrink.
What they don't know is that there's more scripts that haven't made it to my
web site yet.
Jasper Janssen
>David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> posted at 15 Feb 2002 16:14:10 GMT:
>
>> http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg
>
>$ tail -f access_log
>tomato.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net - - [15/Feb/2002:11:18:21 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
>204.177.130.13 - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:08 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
>ct37111-a.nblvil1.in.home.com - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:57 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
>
>This always impresses me . . . that it propogates so quickly,
>that someone is reading so soon after I post, and that they're
>interested enough to download a 70 Kb image.
Those look damn nice. I'm not much of a dark-wood + brass handles man
myself, but still.. They look like they're decent quality stuff, with real
wood and things, instead of (veneered/formicaed) standard fibreboard[1]
and hard-board[2] backs slotted together in a flatpackish way.
Come to think of it, I've never seen a modern 'system' kitchen made in
real wood.[3] Wow.
Jasper
[1] The stuff that's like MDF, only much larger wood particles and less
glue.
[2] Dunno if that's the term. 2-3 mm thick, smooth on one side, rough on
the other, made from a sort of material midway between MDF and
fibreboard..
[3] The 1950-built-and-still-in-place kitchen of my grandmother doesn't
really count as 'modern' or as 'system', IMHO, as it is custommade of real
wood.
Satya
>And as for reading a 70KB file -- that's teeny.
No, 70kB isn't effing teeny. This is how you get bloat.
70kB, over the expected monkish network connections, not on a webpage, for
a photograph, is okay.
--
Satya.
Ralph Wade Phillips
"Jasper Janssen" <jas...@insaneoc.com> wrote in message
news:pfhq6uo0avqb9285r...@4ax.com...
>
> Come to think of it, I've never seen a modern 'system' kitchen made in
> real wood.[3] Wow.
>
> [3] The 1950-built-and-still-in-place kitchen of my grandmother doesn't
> really count as 'modern' or as 'system', IMHO, as it is custommade of real
> wood.
Would you take "hand made on an assembly line" for a system?
My wife's older brother does suchlike for his customers - there's a
plant in Shreveport that does nothing but cabinets, and will do
Gen-You-Whine wood if you ask for it.
RwP
Måns Nilsson
What is a monkish connection? At 'ork, the factor limiting my net
access is the driver in my pc, and the Crashco Catastrof
bad-excuse-for-a-switch, beyond that it's Gig speeds, at least. Yes, we
have a GSR as office router. "This concept of yours, firewalls, what is
that?"
11:30:46 (15.69 KB/s) - `200112140003.jpg' saved [70137/70137]
At home? 400kbit DSL, symmetric.
11:27:19 (17.38 KB/s) - `200112140003.jpg' saved [70137/70137]
Notable is the difference in speed, which is in the opposite direction
from actual speed -- work is significantly faster in every aspect. Oh,
well. My personal limit for "what the heck" is around the 2MB region,
anything above that better be good.
--
Måns Nilsson MN1334-RIPE
http://vvv.besserwisser.org
Satya
>Thus spoke Satya:
>>70kB, over the expected monkish network connections, not on a webpage, for
>>a photograph, is okay.
>
>What is a monkish connection? At 'ork, the factor limiting my net
>11:30:46 (15.69 KB/s) - `200112140003.jpg' saved [70137/70137]
>11:27:19 (17.38 KB/s) - `200112140003.jpg' saved [70137/70137]
>
>Notable is the difference in speed, which is in the opposite direction
>from actual speed -- work is significantly faster in every aspect. Oh,
That is what I meant.
>well. My personal limit for "what the heck" is around the 2MB region,
>anything above that better be good.
At those sizes, it'd better be a TIFF that needs processing in some
way. Sub-200kB JPEGs are good enough for everything else.
--
Satya.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrna62mbd...@rmunn.dyndns.org>, on 02/06/2002
at 04:30 PM, rm...@pobox.com (Robin Munn) said:
>Amen to that. Vg'f nyjnlf gur dhvrg barf... :-)
An interesting rotism. Puts a whole new meaning to the phrase "He's
the one."
Peter Dalgaard BSA
> It is said by some that David P. Murphy once wrote:
>
> > [5] Holy shit, corian is expensive! And it's _still_ cheaper than granite!
>
> Yeah, I know. My parents redid their kitchen a couple of years ago
> and did corian. So we thought we'd be doing the same thing when we
> built our house. NOT! That stuff is not just expensive, it's
> amazingly expensive. So our compromise is to use granite tile for
> the counter tops. Still expensive, but not nearly what a custom
> piece of either granite or corian would be.
Just curious, what price ranges are we talking about? We're having
ours done these days, and even stainless steel gets dwarfed by the
workman costs...
--
O__ ---- Peter Dalgaard Blegdamsvej 3
c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics 2200 Cph. N
(*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen Denmark Ph: (+45) 35327918
~~~~~~~~~~ - (p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk) FAX: (+45) 35327907
Peter Dalgaard BSA
> > Just curious, what price ranges are we talking about? We're having
> > ours done these days, and even stainless steel gets dwarfed by the
> > workman costs...
>
> My parents had theirs done (with integrated sink) for about $7500.
> Our house had quite a bit more surface to cover, so it was going to
> be nearly double that for corian. It would have been nearly triple
> that for granite, IIRC.
Eep! US kitchens are larger than DK ones (I'm assuming that that is
USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for
a slightly larger but irregular steel plate with integrated sink.
However, skilled labour seems to start at $2k/project/craft, and we
needed a mason, carpenter, painter, plumber, electrician...
Satya
<p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk> wrote:
>USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
>for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for
What the *hell*? 12 square inches for one thousand five hundred[0] US
dollars?? Even if you made a mistake and meant feet, 12 square feet for
that much?
[0] Don't restart that threadlet.
--
Satya.
Mike Andrews
: ... nevermind that
: granite is more money and it needs to be molded to the countertop
: and then installed properly. Sheesh!
Erm ... Molding granite isn't all that easy. Mama Nature does it,
but I wasn't aware that we had managed to copy her and get usable
yields in reasonable times.
--
| "Things can happen to browsers in magical libraries that can
| make having your face pulled off by tentacled monstrosities
+------------+ from the Dungeon Dimensions seem a mere light
mi...@mikea.ath.cx| massage by comparison." -- Pterry
David P. Murphy
> On 18 Feb 2002 22:29:57 +0100, Peter Dalgaard BSA
> <p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk> wrote:
>>USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
>>for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for
> What the *hell*? 12 square inches for one thousand five hundred[0] US
> dollars?? Even if you made a mistake and meant feet, 12 square feet for
> that much?
A year ago I would have laughed at such an obvious stupid typo.
Now that I am older and poorer, I can easily believe that price;
I would never pay that much myself, but I can believe it.
Welcome to my kitchen:
+-----=========----------------+
|+-----------------+ |
|| SINK DW | FRIDGE |
|| +-------------+ |
|| |
|| |
|+---+
| OVEN ---+|
|STOVE / ||
|+---+ | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|+---+ | ||
| | ||
| ||
+---------+ ||
| ||
| +-------------+|
+----- -----------------+
Two L shapes and a rectangle. When you order countertops,
you pay by the linear foot (assuming standard depth of 24 inches)
and L shapes are the sum of both dimensions, which makes you
feel like you're getting ripped off. The larger L is 51 by 86,
the rectangle is 39, and the smaller L (with integrated sink)
is 40 by 86. You can do the math if you'd like, but the total
cost was US$3200 including installation . . . a fantastic deal
at "Old Friends" prices, believe it or not. Granite only comes
in natural colors (which tend to be dark and hard to match with
the colors you've already picked out), is easily scratched, and
costs twice as much. Corian was about five times the cost of
the usual stuff covered in formica, but we[1] are very happy
with the decision, especially that deep (9 inches) integerated
two bowl sink with the US$300 faucet. Cleans easy, looks nice.
As far as molding, I've been told that granite is a bitch and
you usually end up saying "screw it", but I don't know firsthand.
I did watch the woman fit the corian to the door frames ---
a very nice job she did, and with about as much effort as it
took me to write the "uudecode" routine yesterday[2].
[1] "we" meaning SWMBO of course
[2] very little
Matt Olson
> Welcome to my kitchen:
>
> +-----=========----------------+
> |+-----------------+ |
> || SINK DW | FRIDGE |
> || +-------------+ |
> || |
> || |
> |+---+
> | OVEN ---+|
> |STOVE / ||
> |+---+ | ||
> || | | ||
> || | | ||
> || | | ||
> |+---+ | ||
> | | ||
> | ||
> +---------+ ||
> | ||
> | +-------------+|
> +----- -----------------+
*blink*
Oh.
I think I've been playing too much nethack lately.
Cheers,
Matt
--
Matt "JAPH" Olson, speaking for himself.
"And it should be the law: If you use the word `paradigm' without knowing
what the dictionary says it means, you go to jail. No exceptions."
-- David Jones
seanna watson
>you pay by the linear foot (assuming standard depth of 24 inches)
>and L shapes are the sum of both dimensions, which makes you
>feel like you're getting ripped off. The larger L is 51 by 86,
>the rectangle is 39, and the smaller L (with integrated sink)
>is 40 by 86. You can do the math if you'd like, but the total
>cost was US$3200 including installation . . . a fantastic deal
>at "Old Friends" prices, believe it or not. Granite only comes
>in natural colors (which tend to be dark and hard to match with
>the colors you've already picked out), is easily scratched, and
>costs twice as much. Corian was about five times the cost of
>the usual stuff covered in formica, but we[1] are very happy
>with the decision, especially that deep (9 inches) integerated
>two bowl sink with the US$300 faucet. Cleans easy, looks nice.
Scratch? Granite? Perhaps if you use a diamond saw to slice your
bread. Corian is sold as "scratch resistant, and if you scratch
it you can just sand it out", but you can certainly gouge it with
a knife. Try that with granite and you'll just wreck your knife.
Of course it's all a matter of taste, but we fell in love with the
granite (actually gneiss) counter-top when we were looking into
kitchen renovations, and based the rest of the decorating scheme
on the "big rocks". Around here (.on.ca east), granite and corian
are both $100-150CDN/linear foot - in our case, the granite came
in about $10-20 cheaper than the Corian. We were impressed with
the installation - the sink was mounted under the matching
irregular-shaped rounded hole, the backsplash matched, the counter
was perfectly level. The only thing they missed was rounding off
one corner, and they came back and did that in situ.
--
seanna <at> nortelnetw orks <dot> com
Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible. I
think it's in my basement...let me go upstairs and check.
- M.C. Escher
kesi...@math.ttu.edu
: David P. Murphy (d...@myths.com) wrote:
[DPM's kitchen snipped]
: *blink*
: I think I've been playing too much nethack lately.
Or not enough, if you didn't notice the doors on the corners of the
walls.
==Jake-Sam, killed by an Air Elemental
Satya
>feel like you're getting ripped off. The larger L is 51 by 86,
>the rectangle is 39, and the smaller L (with integrated sink)
>is 40 by 86. You can do the math if you'd like, but the total
>cost was US$3200 including installation . . . a fantastic deal
*mumblemumblecalculator* 51+86+39+40+86? That's *mumble* 300+ inches, so
that $10 per 1 inch by 24? inches of ... what was it, granite? Still a bit
expensive I say, but okay.
>two bowl sink with the US$300 faucet. Cleans easy, looks nice.
Nuts. I'm moving back to India. At that price, it should wash the damn
dishes automatically. And carry them in, and to the cupboard.
--
Satya.
Berry Kercheval
> Hrm, the "sinter, press, flash-heat" method works well for marble,
> Dunno how it works for granite, though.
It works very well indeed, it just takes about 5 million years after
you drop it into the nearest subduction zone.
Mike Andrews
: Of course it's all a matter of taste, but we fell in love with the
: granite (actually gneiss) counter-top when we were looking into
: kitchen renovations, and based the rest of the decorating scheme
: on the "big rocks". Around here (.on.ca east), granite and corian
: are both $100-150CDN/linear foot - in our case, the granite came
: in about $10-20 cheaper than the Corian. We were impressed with
: the installation - the sink was mounted under the matching
: irregular-shaped rounded hole, the backsplash matched, the counter
: was perfectly level. The only thing they missed was rounding off
: one corner, and they came back and did that in situ.
Well, our island has all the gneiss (and feldspar and other
Canadian-Shield-type metamorphic rocks) I can ever use. All I
have to do is saw out some appropriately-sized slabs and get
them here. And reinforce the cabinets, floors, and foundation.
That's all. Ship from 45:00:00.55 N 79:59:59.22W (roughly)
to (roughly) 37N 97W without damage, get inside house, and
install. Suuuuure.
And then TheCats will get at it, and I'll need new rock.
--
"Screw world peace; visualize using your turn signal!"
Jack Twilley
Ingvar> Hrm, the "sinter, press, flash-heat" method works well for
Ingvar> marble, Dunno how it works for granite, though.
I have this silly smile on my face, having wished more than once that
I could upgrade two NetApp filers named "marble" and "granite" in a
manner not unlike that described above.
Jack.
--
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
David P. Murphy
> On 19 Feb 2002 16:14:20 GMT, David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>>feel like you're getting ripped off. The larger L is 51 by 86,
>>the rectangle is 39, and the smaller L (with integrated sink)
>>is 40 by 86. You can do the math if you'd like, but the total
>>cost was US$3200 including installation . . . a fantastic deal
> *mumblemumblecalculator* 51+86+39+40+86? That's *mumble* 300+ inches, so
> that $10 per 1 inch by 24? inches of ... what was it, granite? Still a bit
> expensive I say, but okay.
Corian, not granite.
>>two bowl sink with the US$300 faucet. Cleans easy, looks nice.
> Nuts. I'm moving back to India. At that price, it should wash the damn
> dishes automatically. And carry them in, and to the cupboard.
When you've already spent $BIGNUM on the flooring, the wallpaper,
the paint, the cabinets, the window, the countertop (including sink),
the labor, the electrical work, the new stove/oven, the new microwave,
the finishing work (still not done, by the way), the insta-hot tap,
and the plumbing work . . . you really don't want to save US$100 for
a faucet that will both look cheap[1] and leave SWMBO wanting[2].
It's a Moen --- so I know it's gonna last a long time --- and it has
both the pull-out handle and the built-in filter. Feel free to
write it off to the cost-of-living in alexandria.va.us, but really
it wasn't even noticeable in the grand total. Admittedly we paid
a little extra to match the color of the sink, but every time I wipe
up I love having that integrated sink: no lip!
[1] I don't care
[2] I do care
Peter Dalgaard BSA
> Satya <sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net> wrote:
> > On 18 Feb 2002 22:29:57 +0100, Peter Dalgaard BSA
> > <p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk> wrote:
> >>USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
> >>for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for
>
> > What the *hell*? 12 square inches for one thousand five hundred[0] US
> > dollars?? Even if you made a mistake and meant feet, 12 square feet for
> > that much?
Yes, of course I meant feet. The price was rounded down...
> Welcome to my kitchen:
...
Nice. Welcome to mine:
+-------------=========-+
|+----------------+
|| SINK|
|| ___________/
||____/ ---+
||DW | FRIDGE
|+---+ ---+
| OVEN ---+|
|STOVE / ||
|+---+ | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
+-------- ---------+
Rob Adams
>d...@myths.com (David P. Murphy) writes:
>
>> Satya <sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net> wrote:
>> > On 18 Feb 2002 22:29:57 +0100, Peter Dalgaard BSA
>> > <p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk> wrote:
>> >>USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
>> >>for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for
>>
>> > What the *hell*? 12 square inches for one thousand five hundred[0] US
>> > dollars?? Even if you made a mistake and meant feet, 12 square feet for
>> > that much?
>
>Yes, of course I meant feet. The price was rounded down...
>
>> Welcome to my kitchen:
>...
Not bad...
+-------------=========-+
| +----------------+
| | F | |SINK| |
| | R |___________/
| IDGE ---+
| STOVE
| ---+
|+---+ ---+|
|FRIDGE / ||
|+---+ | ||
| ___________| ||
/
Yeah two fridges.
--
ADVISORY: The email address contained in the header of this posting is
a legitimate address; it is used to harvest email addresses so that we
can email you our own email message containing advertisments. To stop
yourself getting on this list use robadams(at)dingoblue{dit}net(dit)au
Jay Maynard
>>> Welcome to my kitchen:
>
> +-------------=========-+
> | +----------------+
> | | F | |SINK| |
> | | R |___________/
> | IDGE ---+
> | STOVE
> | ---+
> |+---+ ---+|
> |FRIDGE / ||
> |+---+ | ||
> | ___________| ||
> /
While we're posting kitchens:
+-----+ +-------------+
|+---+ | |
|FRIDGE |________ |
|+---+ | |
|+---+ |---|
|STOVE |SI||
|+---+ |NK||
|---|
|DW||
|--+|
| |
+-------------------------+
(Picture at http://www.conmicro.cx/1831Oakwood/kitchen.jpg .)
Note the less than optimal use of space. We stuck a table in the middle, but
that's somewhat less than satisfying.
Arvid Grøtting
> While we're posting kitchens:
AOL.
+-------------------- -+
| | fri| |
| d/w | dge| (back
| ---------+----+ stairs)
| e s|
| m i| |
| a n| |
| c k| |
| s | |
| | |
|_____| table __|
| | / |
|stove| /cup|
|_____| | b'd|
+---------==========---------+
(window)
The trashcan's underneath the sink, with a door that won't open when
the dishwasher's open, but we can live with that. IKEA kitchen, by
the way. Which is fine by me -- it works.
Yes, we have a kitchen entrance, or fire exit.
--
Arvid
Caution: Tapes may be hot.
Arvid Grøtting
> While we're posting kitchens:
AOL.
+-------------------- -+
| | fri| |
| d/w | dge| (back
| ---------+----+ stairs)
| e s|
| m i| |
| a n| |
| c k| |
| s | |
| | |
|_____| table __|
| | / |
|stove| /cup|
|_____| | b'd|
+---------==========---------+
(window)
The trashcan's underneath the sink, with a door that won't open when
the dishwasher's open, but we can live with that. IKEA kitchen, by
the way. Which is fine by me -- it works.
Yes, we have a kitchen entrance, or fire exit. Oh, and the left-hand
(in the drawing) wall isn't at right angles with the rest, but that
detail got lost when compressing to ASCII.
Arvid Grøtting
> I'm sorry, but *someone* had to do it.
OK. I'm expecting a cascade of "what does Perth have in common with
Arvid Grøtting's stove" jokes any minute, though.
--
Live phase 1 <--> RJ45 pin 3 GND <--> RJ45 pin 8
Live phase 2 <--> RJ45 pin 6
Live phase 3 <--> RJ45 pin 2 Is this suitable?
Neutral <--> RJ45 pin 1 Or should we kill phones too?
J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Arvid Grøtting <arv...@regina.uio.no> wrote:
> > I'm sorry, but *someone* had to do it.
>
> OK. I'm expecting a cascade of "what does Perth have in common with
> Arvid Grøtting's stove" jokes any minute, though.
If only it were the sink, there would be at least one "down under" gag
in there somewhere.
For a stove, I got nothin'.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / bal...@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Andrews
: While we're posting kitchens:
: +-----+ +-------------+
: |+---+ | |
: |FRIDGE |________ |
: |+---+ | |
: |+---+ |---|
: |STOVE |SI||
: |+---+ |NK||
: |---|
: |DW||
: |--+|
: | |
: +-------------------------+
And mine:
+-------=======-----------------------------------------+
|xx| WASHER | DRYER | STOVE |TRASH| | COUNTER|
|xx| | | | CAN | | with |
| | | | |-----+ |cabinets|
| | | | | |below |
| +----------+---------+---------+ |and |
| \ three shelves above this \ |above |
| \ area for storage; 18" deep \ | |
| +------------------------------+ | |
| | |
+========---+ | |
| | |--------|
| | | double |
| | | stless-|
| PANTRY | | steel |
| |------+ | sink |
| |FRIDGE| |w/high |
| | | |spigot |
| | | |--------|
| | | | more |
| |------+ | counter|
|-----------| | dish- |
| broom- | | washer |
| closet | | and |
| | | cabinet|
| | | up&down|
+-----------+ +--------+
Scale is about 2/3 what it should be if the kitchen were large
enough.
I *HEART* the high spigot on the sink; it raises the place from
which the water comes to about 18" off the septum between the
sinks, and about 30" from the bottom of the sinks. It is the
single best decision I made when we redid the kitchen in 1985.
I'd love to get the washer and dryer someplace else, but there
just isn't anyplace else in the house for them.
--
The only sensible way to estimate the stability of a Windows
server is to power it down and try it out as a step ladder.
- Robert Crawford, in the Monastery
ben-publ...@decadentplace.org.uk
<snip>
It's not big enough already?
> I *HEART* the high spigot on the sink; it raises the place from
> which the water comes to about 18" off the septum between the
> sinks, and about 30" from the bottom of the sinks. It is the
> single best decision I made when we redid the kitchen in 1985.
>
> I'd love to get the washer and dryer someplace else, but there
> just isn't anyplace else in the house for them.
<snip>
+--------++===========+-------+
| |+-----------+counter|
| washer ||sink |(shelf |
| (drier || drainer| above)|
| above) |+-----------+ |
+-------++ |(dish- |
|counter| |washer |
| (bin | | under,|
| under)| cupboard|
|+----+ | | above)|
|| mi-| | +-------+
||cro-| | |cooker |
||wave| |<- recycling |(stove,|
|+----+ | bin under | oven, |
+--------+ | grill)|
| cup- | +-------+
| board | |counter|
+--------+ (cupboard
| | above)|
/ +--------+
/ | |
/ |fridge/ |
/ |freezer |
/ | |
+--------------------+--------+
A bit cramped, but sufficient.
David P. Murphy
> Indeed. Now that I have my KithcenAid[1],
> [1] ObRecovery: I *heart* my KitchenAid. SWMBO got it for me as a complete
> surprise on my birthday. She thought it frivolous (which is why it was
> so much of a surprise). I am happy to report that she is a complete
> convert. Not only is baking easier and less messy, but the stuff
> just tastes better.
WTF are you talking about? "KitchenAid" is a corporation, which sells
compactors, cooktops, dishwashers, disposals, dryers, ranges, hoods, vents,
hot water dispensers, icemakers, microwave ovens, ovens, refrigerators,
warming drawers, washers, blenders, coffee makers, cookware, cutlery,
food processors, hand mixers, juicers, stand mixers, toasters, and other
accessories. You could be describing any of them.
> Oh, and more counter space. You can never have
> enough counter space. Unless you're buying granite/corian for it all,
> of course. Then enough is *way* too much. *sigh*
We've moved in eleven years ago and plan on being here at least fifteen
more . . . paying a lot now to enjoy it for that long is not unreasonable.
David P. Murphy
> Yeah two fridges.
Our second full-size fridge w/ freeze is downstairs. When SWMBO's
company went tits-up, they kindly sold all of their stuff to the
employees at astonishing prices. Everyone was battling for kit[1]
but I urged her to go for the fridge in the employee lounge instead.
No one else thought of it, so we got a clean, almost-new fridge in
excellent condition for US$70. Whoo-hoo. Huge freezer compartment
makes grocery shopping easier; we no longer have to decide which
frozen items we have room for.
[1] names were drawn to see who got lucky
Garrett Wollman
David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>WTF are you talking about? "KitchenAid" is a corporation,
Actually, it's a brand name. The corporation is Whirlpool. (They
also make Comfort-Aire air conditioners and most, but not all, of
Sears' Kenmore-brand appliances.)
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same
wol...@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom
Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick
Arvid Grøtting
> SWMBO and I are already arguing about whether to get a freezer or
> another refrigerator. I want a big freezer, she wants the combo.
Oh. My GF and I had no trouble agreeing on what to buy when we got
our own flat and had to buy such things: One (1) freezer, large, and
one (1) refrigerator, large, with one cool (~10°C) and one cold (~4°C)
part.
Both are full. The ~10°C part is for storing beer, other beverages
and vegetables. Now, I hope it gets even colder outside so I can
defrost the freezer without losing any of the contents...
> I want it in the basement, she wants it in the garage.
Our freezer is in the hall, to give comfortable room for a table in
the kitchen.
> And guess who's going to win both of these arguments?
That's somehow given by her title, isn't it?
--
In its experience the Court has found testimonial predictions of
future events generally less reliable even than testimony as to
historical fact, and cross-examination to be of little use in
enhancing or detracting from their accuracy. -- T. P. Jackson
Thomas W. Strong Jr.
> Both are full. The ~10°C part is for storing beer, other beverages
I think you meant s/stor/distill/, and even then it seems a little high.
(you might want to try a temperature between the boiling points of the
liquids you want to separate, it'll probably work better)
--
Thomas W. Strong Jr. <str...@dementia.org>
http://www.tomstrong.org/
J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Thomas W. Strong Jr. <str...@dementia.org>
wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Arvid [iso-8859-1] Gr=F8tting wrote:
> > Both are full. The ~10=B0C part is for storing beer, other beverages
>
> I think you meant s/stor/distill/, and even then it seems a little
> high. (you might want to try a temperature between the boiling
> points of the liquids you want to separate, it'll probably work
> better)
I think you might want to try a character set between 7-bit ASCII and
ISO-8859-1, it'll probably work better.
Arvid Grøtting
> I think you might want to try a character set between 7-bit ASCII and
> ISO-8859-1, it'll probably work better.
Between? Such as ISO-646-60?
For distilling Strong alcohols?
I'm confused, now. Or, s/ed/ing/.
Joshua Baker-LePain
>> Indeed. Now that I have my KithcenAid[1],
> WTF are you talking about? "KitchenAid" is a corporation, which sells
> compactors, cooktops, dishwashers, disposals, dryers, ranges, hoods, vents,
> hot water dispensers, icemakers, microwave ovens, ovens, refrigerators,
> warming drawers, washers, blenders, coffee makers, cookware, cutlery,
> food processors, hand mixers, juicers, stand mixers, toasters, and other
> accessories. You could be describing any of them.
Oh, fine, be pedantic (of course). I was talking about my stand mixer.
>> Oh, and more counter space. You can never have
>> enough counter space. Unless you're buying granite/corian for it all,
>> of course. Then enough is *way* too much. *sigh*
> We've moved in eleven years ago and plan on being here at least fifteen
> more . . . paying a lot now to enjoy it for that long is not unreasonable.
Absolutely agreed. And when we figure out where we're going to be for a
long time (i.e. when SWMBO gets both her doctor degrees), we *will*
be building such a kitchen.
--
Joshua Baker-LePain
Department of Biomedical Engineering
Duke University
Maarten Wiltink
>In article <a534t9$ebb$4...@allhats.xcski.com>,
>David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>
>>WTF are you talking about? "KitchenAid" is a corporation,
>
Unless I am sorely mistaken, and if there were any great risk
of that I wouldn't be posting, that makes the corporation
Philips. What to call Whirlpool then, I don't know.
Philips, by the way, is here known also as "a large lightbulb
factory in the south of the country". In Dutch, it alliterates
too, but with g's ("grote gloeilampenfabriek" - I await your
attempts at pronouncing that).
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Maarten Wiltink
[...]
>SWMBO and I are already arguing about whether to get a freezer or
>another refrigerator. I want a big freezer, she wants the combo.
>
Both of you, of course. Next!
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Kai Henningsen
> Randy the Random staggered into the Black Sun and said:
> >Brigit loves to imitate what I'm doing on the computer, and apparently
> >she found the 'f' a couple days back when I turned my back. There were
> >a lot of f's in the post - but then, she's only just two.
>
> ``I hate this effing diaper rash, and the way my Daddy effing yells at me
> when I touch his effing computer. He's effing ancient, and fought in all
> the effing wars and lived through the effing Depression and he knows all
> about effing computers and cleaning up the effing messes his effing
> lusers make, and I'm learning all my effing words and all about this
> effing thing effing well called Life from him.''
That seems entirely possible.
If I can believe the radio, there're four year old twins in Eastern
Germany who are already winning "younger than ten" chess tournaments. Not
doing much math because parents are afraid they'll be too bored in school.
And analyzing their mother's old chess games (who wasn't a kid when she
recorded those) to see what she did wrong.
I hear they're also surfing the 'net for research. Without pa. After all,
they're no longer little babies.
Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu)
Jasper Janssen
"In het zuiden des lands". Just to be complete.
Isn't "the kitchenaid", used as a noun, usually a food processor type
popularised by said brand, which killed off the *real* do-it-all kitchen
machinery, such as the 1970's Braun in the kitchen here?
Jasper
Jasper Janssen
Siddoway) wrote:
>SWMBO and I are already arguing about whether to get a freezer or
>another refrigerator. I want a big freezer, she wants the combo.
>I want it in the basement, she wants it in the garage.
>
>And guess who's going to win both of these arguments?
Both of you? Why just get one when you can have two..
Jasper
Rik Steenwinkel
+-----+ +-------------+
|+---+ |ta | |si |
|cupb'd |ble| |nk |
|+---+ | | |---|
|+---+ | | | |
|fridge +---+ | |
|+---+ | Y |
| | |
| +---+ +-------|
| | | X | | |
| | +---+ | cupb'd|
+ ------------------+
The spot marked X is a freezer (both it, and the fridge are 90cm/3'
high units) with a gas range on top, in a recess which used to be a
fireplace. A combo microwave/oven sits on to of the fridge. At Y I've
managed to wedge a dishwasher underneath the way-too-low counter, on
account of hating doing the dishes even more than before because of
the way-too-low counter. Oh, this house was built around 1900; raising
the counter is rendered almost impossible without major mods to the
kitchen due to the fact that one end is flush with a windowsill, the
other end has the upper cupboard door swinging _just_ over it.
--
// Rik Steenwinkel # VMS mercenary # Enschede, Netherlands
st...@madcelt.org
> Word has it that on Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:07:27 GMT, in this august forum,
> "Arvid Grotting" <arv...@regina.uio.no> said:
>>> While we're posting kitchens:
>>
>>AOL.
> +-------------------- -+
> | | fri| |
> |H d/w | dge| (back
> |o ---------+----+ stairs)
> | e s|
> |Hm i| |
> |oa n| |
> | c k| |
> |Hs | |
> |o | |
> |_____| table __|
> | | / |
> *Perth| /cup|
> |_____| | b'd|
> +---------==========---------+
> I'm sorry, but *someone* had to do it.
No they didn't. But seeing as you mentioned it, and everyone else
has posted theres, here's my kitchen, IN Perth:
------------------------------------+
| |HP | |
| |Oven| | Door to Carport
| +----------+
| | +--------
|----| \ |
|SINK| + |
| | |
|----| +--+
| | FR|
| | |
+----+ +
--
Stevo st...@madcelt.org
"If you are "fighting" vi, it should not try and give helpful hints, it
should munge your cursor, screw up your terminal, rot13 your mailbox and
call your girlfriend for a date." - Pim van Riezen
Earl Grey
> IKEA kitchen, by the way. Which is fine by me -- it works.
I wish we had 'em in Honolulu.
No Such Luck.
--
They tell me that you're going to try posting to Alt.Sysadmin.Recovery.
It's a Magnificent Idea; A Daring and Splendid Idea! It will be FUN!
Assuming you're not vaporized, dissected, or otherwise killed in an
assortment of supremely horrible and painful ways! Exciting, Isn't It?!
Bogdan Iamandei
> Arvid Grųtting wrote:
>
>> IKEA kitchen, by the way. Which is fine by me -- it works.
>
> I wish we had 'em in Honolulu.
> No Such Luck.
ITYM ENOLUCK
HTH
Ino!~
--
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.
David P. Murphy
> David P. Murphy staggered into the Black Sun and said:
>>Our second full-size fridge w/ freeze is downstairs. When SWMBO's
>>company went tits-up, they kindly sold all of their stuff to the
>>[1] names were drawn to see who got lucky
> Okay, so you probably didn't mean that last phrase in its canonical
> sense.
> Reality: Company is going down, many employees are going to get fscked.
> Upspin: ``Let's hold a draw and see who's going to Get Lucky!''
Oh, I was definitely in High Sarcasm Mode. Even these lusers knew that
the new management was lying through its teeth ("We're not moving!"
"Okay, we /are/ moving, but no one will be laid off!" "All right,
we've laid off 15% but that's all!") but still couldn't see the true
deals: prime wooden bookcases for US$5, nice comfy chairs for $10,
full-size fridge/freezer for $70 . . . and they fight over the
godforsaken PCs. Lame chips, small hard drives, ordinary monitors,
what the hell were they thinking?
David P. Murphy
I really would like to play this nethack dungeon but
$ /usr/games/nethack
nethack: cannot connect to X server
$
http://www.nethack.org/v331/ports/download-linux.html says
"you will need to have X11 libraries installed on your system to run
this binary, even in its tty flavor."
I might as well run it under Windows . . .
# $ man nethack
# .
# .
# .
# To win the game (as opposed to merely playing to beat other people's
# high scores) you must locate the Amulet of Yendor which is somewhere
# below the 20th level of the dungeon and get it out. Nobody has
# achieved this yet; anybody who does will probably go down in history
# as a hero among heros.
Is this still true?
# .
# .
# .
# BUGS
# Probably infinite.
Oooooo an honest programmer.
> A bit cramped, but sufficient.
Is your microwave resting on the counter? Ours does, and it works fine,
but we bought a new unit for US$480 which fits over the stove:
http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200201040027.jpg
I was skeptical --- even though it was available in all-black ---
but I have to admit, it's big enough (the width is great) and
it certainly frees up the precious counterspace.
Garrett Wollman
>Unless I am sorely mistaken, and if there were any great risk
>of that I wouldn't be posting, that makes the corporation
>Philips. What to call Whirlpool then, I don't know.
Actually, no. Whirlpool and Philips had an E/ME/A joint venture,
which was bought out by Whirlpool in the early '90s. See
<http://www.whirlpoolcorp.com/whr/corporate/eufacts.html>.
(How New Zealand counts as an ``emerging market'' I have no idea.)
Garrett Wollman
Jasper Janssen <jas...@insaneoc.com> wrote:
>Isn't "the kitchenaid", used as a noun, usually a food processor type
>popularised by said brand
Dunno about Europe, but around here their best-known product is a
large (2.5- or 3-quart depending on the model) stand mixer. Every TV
chef seems to have one. Even I have one, which I use once in a blue
moon for baking, because it's *so* much more convenient than a hand
mixer. A genericized food processor would be a ``cuisinart''. Most
people no longer refer to refrigerators as ``frigidaires'',[1] nor
blenders as ``osterizers'', but a kitchen-waste disposer is still
commonly called a ``disposall'' even though the most popular brands
are GE and Kenmore these days.
-GAWollman
[1] My father is old enough that he still calls the refrigerator the
``icebox'', even though he never lived in a home that had an actual
ice-cooled one.
Alan J Rosenthal
D. Joseph Creighton
}My new kitchen only has two walls.
}
}The other opens into the living room. The whole arrangement
}is pleasingly named a "great room".
Sounds a bit like my place: the living/dining/kitchen areas are all along
the front side of the house. There is no wall between dining/kitchen areas
and a minimal one (6 foot archway) between living/dining.
This wide-open nature of the design makes it great for parties and kids.
[1] See <slrna7d16q...@panther.bitflood.net>
--
"A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Cicero
D. Joseph Creighton [ESTP] | Systems Analyst, Database Technologies, IST
Joe_Cr...@UManitoba.CA | University of Manitoba Winnipeg, MB, Canada, eh?
Lieven Marchand
> Philips, by the way, is here known also as "a large lightbulb
> factory in the south of the country". In Dutch, it alliterates
> too, but with g's ("grote gloeilampenfabriek" - I await your
> attempts at pronouncing that).
No problem at all. Although people above the Moerdijk would probably
start muttering about zachte g's.
--
Lieven Marchand <m...@wyrd.be>
She says, "Honey, you're a Bastard of great proportion."
He says, "Darling, I plead guilty to that sin."
Cowboy Junkies -- A few simple words
Jasper Janssen
>In article <2bna7u03k7rlrnih4...@4ax.com>,
>Jasper Janssen <jas...@insaneoc.com> wrote:
>
>>Isn't "the kitchenaid", used as a noun, usually a food processor type
>>popularised by said brand
>
>Dunno about Europe, but around here their best-known product is a
>large (2.5- or 3-quart depending on the model) stand mixer. Every TV
http://www.kitchenaid.com/graphics/ksm90er.jpg something like that?
In that case, I was close-ish. It processes food, anyway..
>chef seems to have one. Even I have one, which I use once in a blue
>moon for baking, because it's *so* much more convenient than a hand
>mixer. A genericized food processor would be a ``cuisinart''. Most
The multi-use machine I referred to earlier on, can be equipped as the
Kitchenaid above (slightly smaller bowl, possibly), or with a smaller
bowl, can do dough-hook or whipping, also comes with a blender attachment,
and optionally citrus presses and meatgrinders (and no doubt several other
optional devices), all running from a single motor (thogh not at the same
time). The one thing it *doesn't* do is the closed-dish with knives in the
bottom as seen in the now-common food processor.
>people no longer refer to refrigerators as ``frigidaires'',[1] nor
My grandfolks very occasionally still do that.
>[1] My father is old enough that he still calls the refrigerator the
>``icebox'', even though he never lived in a home that had an actual
>ice-cooled one.
Part of that, I think, is that ice-cooled boxes weren't terribly common I
would think. Running cost is extremely high, and fresh tastes better
anyway..
Jasper
djohnson
>The trashcan's underneath the sink,
My kitchen trashcan has never been under the sink in any of my own
houses. I still open the cabinet door looking for the trashcan in my
own house, from when I was (much) younger and still lived with my
parents.
--
We've got enough youth, what we need is a fountain of intelligence
djohnson
>and they fight over the
>godforsaken PCs. Lame chips, small hard drives, ordinary monitors,
>what the hell were they thinking?
Previous orkplace sold off obsolete[1] incomplete PC's. Compaqs, with
missing drives, and only whatever memory was soldered directly to the
motherboard--In some cases 8mb, in some cases 0. People bought them,
but strangely enough, nobody who did was capable of resurrecting a
dead Compaq.
[1] They were obsolete when purchased. There was much delay because
the manager in charge couldn't find 14" monitors, and wouldn't settle
for 15". He also removed half the RAM on each, and stored it in a
file cabinet.
David P. Murphy
> David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote on 22 Feb 2002 16:44:32 GMT:
> | I really would like to play this nethack dungeon but
> | $ /usr/games/nethack
> | nethack: cannot connect to X server
> | $
> | http://www.nethack.org/v331/ports/download-linux.html says
> | "you will need to have X11 libraries installed on your system to run
> | this binary, even in its tty flavor."
> | I might as well run it under Windows . . .
> [cough]
> Or you could just do what people have done for more than ten years, download
> the source and build it yourself.
> If that is beyond your reach, well... maybe it's just as well.
Cough yerself, I've been playing since about twenty minutes
after my post. I wasn't ranting about "I can't figure out
how to run this", I was ranting about "Why the fuck does this
game insist on an X server when it doesn't need it and there's
no command line option or env.var either?"
The answer, of course, is that I downloaded the file which
should have been named nethack-for-dummies.rpm.
Mike Andrews
: Previous orkplace sold off obsolete[1] incomplete PC's. Compaqs, with
: missing drives, and only whatever memory was soldered directly to the
: motherboard--In some cases 8mb, in some cases 0. People bought them,
: but strangely enough, nobody who did was capable of resurrecting a
: dead Compaq.
: [1] They were obsolete when purchased. There was much delay because
: the manager in charge couldn't find 14" monitors, and wouldn't settle
: for 15". He also removed half the RAM on each, and stored it in a
: file cabinet.
Well, damn! That actually makes _sense_! It just wouldn't *DO*
for users (or lusers) to have something that was actually more
capable than they needed -- even if it happened to come off the
shelf that way.
Do you know if he wore sleeve garters and a green eyeshade, and
wrote at a high desk using a quill pen by the light of a single
candle, while sitting on a tall stool? It sure sounds like it.
--
It shone, pale as bone, as I stood there alone.
And I thought to myself how the moon, that night cast its light
on my hearts true delight, and the reef where her body was strewn
-- Manuel Calavera, "Grim Fandango"
djohnson
>djohnson <djohns...@radparker.com> wrote:
>
>: [1] They were obsolete when purchased. There was much delay because
>: the manager in charge couldn't find 14" monitors, and wouldn't settle
>: for 15". He also removed half the RAM on each, and stored it in a
>: file cabinet.
>
>Well, damn! That actually makes _sense_! It just wouldn't *DO*
>for users (or lusers) to have something that was actually more
>capable than they needed -- even if it happened to come off the
>shelf that way.
>
>Do you know if he wore sleeve garters and a green eyeshade, and
>wrote at a high desk using a quill pen by the light of a single
>candle, while sitting on a tall stool? It sure sounds like it.
Best I can tell, his background was mostly Mainframe programming. He
had the systems set up as close to mainframe/terminal as possible,
while still using Windows (3.1). The PC's had nothing loaded except
DOS and Novell, when you fired them up, they'd run Windows off a
network drive. Swap on the network drive, even though every computer
had plenty of unused disk. Video resolution and driver was tied to
your ID, rather than to the computer, but there weren't enough
computers to go around, so you had to shuffle between systems
frequently...
I've still got 40 or so ISA Intel EtherExpress cards, from when his
hand-picked successor upgraded all the incoming systems to 100Mb.
Without upgrading any of the hubs...
Jay Maynard
>Arvid Grųtting wrote:
>> IKEA kitchen, by the way. Which is fine by me -- it works.
>I wish we had 'em in Honolulu.
>No Such Luck.
Yeah. Me too. I could have sworn I remembered seeing one on I-494 in the
Twin Cities, but it's not there any more. This is going to make ordering
pieces to extend my Effektiv desk interesting. At least the Ivar stuff is
easy.
Jay Maynard
>Oh, wait, never mind. Your kitchen looks perfectly acceptable. My
>house dates to the 1920s, but the kitchen and bathroom were Redecorated
>With Extreme Prejudice in the 1970s and have the most appalling
>earthtone vinyl flooring you've ever seen.
That's one thing I like about this house: the kitchen and rear entryway have
parquet flooring. Overall effect isn't bad. Countertop's a bit scarred in
places, though.
The cabinets are original, I think, fromt he house's 1949 construction.
>Saves on coffee, though. I simply walk into the kitchen in the
>morning, recoil in horror, and I'm up.
Yow. We have a bathroom like that. It can be convenient: look at the decor,
and the toilet's right there...
David P. Murphy
>># BUGS
>># Probably infinite.
>>
>>Oooooo an honest programmer.
> For there to be an infinite number of bugs there would need to be an
> infinite number of lines of code. Either that or one (or more) infinite
> loops that produce an infinite amount of different bugs.
You have failed to consider the Marching Chinese.
David P. Murphy
> Best I can tell, his background was mostly Mainframe programming. He
> had the systems set up as close to mainframe/terminal as possible,
> while still using Windows (3.1). The PC's had nothing loaded except
> DOS and Novell, when you fired them up, they'd run Windows off a
> network drive. Swap on the network drive, even though every computer
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> had plenty of unused disk. Video resolution and driver was tied to
> your ID, rather than to the computer, but there weren't enough
> computers to go around, so you had to shuffle between systems
> frequently...
Obviously I have far to go before I can be considered a True Bastard;
this little trick would never have occurred to me.
I bow in his presence, etc., etc.
st...@madcelt.org
> st...@madcelt.org said:
>>No they didn't. But seeing as you mentioned it, and everyone else
>>has posted theres, here's my kitchen, IN Perth:
>>
>>------------------------------------+
>> | |HP | |
>> | |Oven| | Door to Carport
>> | +----------+
>> | | +--------
>> |----| \ |
>> |SINK| + |
>> | | |
>> |----| +--+
>> | | FR| ^
>> | | | N
> +----+
> Bummer about the missing walls. Cyclone?
Nope, fucking 'open plan' housing that is popular in these here parts.
South of the kitchen is the dining room, east is the lounge room
If people are really interested, I have a copy of the house plans
on line somewhere, I think.