In defense of the Church wiping out heretics
Joseph Geloso
Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
heretics, what is wrong with that?
First we have the notion condemned as error:
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
[It is error to believe that] 24. The Church has not the power of
using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect.
Now the question, why is that an error? Or in other words, why is it
legitimate for the Church to use force, particularly in exterminating
heretics?
Which is worse, loss of life or loss of Faith? The answer is that loss
of Faith is decidedly worse. One who dies with Faith (and in the state
of grace) will be in Heaven. One who lives, having lost Faith, is on
his way to Hell.
The insidiousness of heresy is that it inevitably draws away those
whose faith is weak. Those who are mature in Faith have less to fear
from heresy than do the babes in Faith, in particular our children.
The littlest of children become easy prey for heretics, simply because
they are not yet firmly established in Faith, and little children tend
to believe what they hear. Indeed, it is the most natural course, to
believe what one hears -- to disbelieve takes more sophistication.
That is one reason Our Lord said, "whoever does not enter the Kingdom
of Heaven like a little child will not enter it at all."
The Scriptures say, "ye shall not suffer a witch to live." But
heretics are worse than witches. Witches, it seems, do not generally
try to make converts -- heretics do. A witch can inflict harm, but
cannot inflict the loss of salvation. A heretic can inflict the loss
of salvation upon the little ones in Faith.
The final Word on this comes from Our Lord Himself:
Matthew 18:6. "But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones
that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be
hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of
the sea."
Ninure Saunders
<jose...@hotmail.com> wrote:
-Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
-others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
-heretics, what is wrong with that?
-
Luke 6:37 蛇o not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and
you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
Rom. 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else零 servant? To his own master
he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand.
Rom. 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look
down on your brother? For we will all stand before God零 judgment seat.
Romans 14:13-14 "Then let us not be judges of one another any longer: but
keep this in mind, that no one is to make it hard for their brother or
sister, or give them cause for doubting. I am conscious of this, and am
certain in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself; but for the
one in whose opinion it is unclean, for them it is unclean."
1Cor. 4:3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human
court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
1Cor. 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till
the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will
expose the motives of men零 hearts. At that time each will receive his
praise from God.
1Cor. 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the
church? Are you not to judge those inside?
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
point, he has become guilty of all.
James 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks
against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it.
When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on
it.
James 4:12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to
save and destroy. But you 𢶤ho are you to judge your neighbor?
James 5:9 Don靖 grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be
judged. The Judge is standing at the door!
Luke 13: Now there were some present at the same time who told him about
the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
2 Jesus answered them, "Do you think that these Galilaeans were worse
sinners than all the other Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way.
4 Or those eighteen, on whom the tower in Siloam fell, and killed them; do
you think that they were worse offenders than all the men who dwell in
Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way."
I John 1: 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we haven't sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is
not in us.
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
Truth
"Joseph Geloso" <jose...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ucmfqv86hu3pe3p15...@4ax.com...
Jesus NEVER said "Kill them" Nor did the apostles or the early Christian
Church ever do such..
Jesus in fact said:
Jhn 16
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that
whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known
the Father, nor me.
In Mat 23 He also called the Pharissees murders simply because they had
the same mindset of their Fathers who killed the prophets:
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children
of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the
damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and
scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of
them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city
to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth,
from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of
Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
How much more do these words apply in this day when you justify the
murders of your Fathers???
You killers are coming out of the woodwork now, and still it seems that
most can't notice.
Andrew certainly won't. Nor is this Dark ages thinking isolated to a
few.
Some time ago I posted a thread from EWTN, where this same thing was
being taught and justified. Here it is again:
Burning at the stake -- a different perspective
Question from Don on 05-13-2002:
Dr. Carroll,
In considering the treatment of relapsed heretics (most, but not all,
heretics were given the chance to recant before being burned alive),
it
is obviously important to consider the underlining beliefs motivating
such behavior on the part of the Catholic secular and religious
authorities.
To those watching someone being burned alive, as well as to the person
being executed, it is clear that such a death was a vivid depicture of
people's beliefs regarding Hell. In Saint Joan of Arc's Trial of
Condemnation, Hell is not referred to as "hell" but as the "eternal
fire". The same terminology was later used at the Council of Florence,
and is also present in the current Catechism of the Catholic Church
(paragraph #1036).
Does it seem logical that heretics were burned alive, with their
mental
faculties intact, to give them one last chance to repent before being
sent into the "eternal fire"? Could it be that burning an individual
at
the stake was seen as a merciful death, as a means of giving that
person
one last chance to save his or her soul before final damnation??? I
have
read that "burning at the stake was believed by some medieval
authorities and scholars to liberate the sinner from his or her
formerly
damned state and offer some hope of salvation to the now 'cleansed'
soul".
The unchanging teaching of the Church is that Hell is the "the
unquenchable fire" (#1034) and that it is eternal (#1035). Until the
20th-century, heresy was viewed as a terrible sin, something that the
Apostle Paul condemns as damnable (#817), stating in Galatians 1:6-9,
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you
in
the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel-- not that there
is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to
pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven,
should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to
you,
let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If
any
one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received,
let him be accursed." Some translations have "eternally condemned" or
"anathema" instead of "accursed".
Given such an admonition, what should one have expected of the
medieval
Church? If heretics were (and are) on a "highway to Hell", does it
make
sense to mercifully kill a relapsed heretic, so that he or she can
"peacefully" pass into the "furnace of fire" (#1034)?
In our time, we have religious freedom, a gift from the deists of the
Enlightenment. This is a good thing!! We need religious tolerance. One
only need look at the events of September 11 to see that!! Tolerance
is
good and wonderful! Without it, we would probably be fighting numerous
religious and ethnic wars, which would cost millions of lives.
In the end, though, our deep religious tolerance may not be a good
thing. In giving people the absolute freedom to decide what they do or
do not believe, we may have given them the freedom to "think and feel"
their way straight into Hell, forever. In our age of complete
relativism
where there are no absolute truths, the Church has to operate the best
she can, and this means a certain level of conformity to the
prevailing
social norms -- in this case, religious tolerance and ecumenicalism.
The world of medieval Catholic Europe operated under a set of much
different circumstances. They did what they felt was right in the eyes
of God. They were not "sinners" and did not necessarily use "poor
judgment". Ultimately, Christ will judge all people, including those
of
the Inquisition. Catholics should not feel "embarrassed" by that
outcome. I am not.
This is not to say that burning people alive was justified, even if
the
individual in question was a genuine heretic who repeatedly refused to
recant. I guess that any judgment would need to be made on an
individual
case. We will all die someday, and I fully and firmly believe that God
will judge everyone to ultimately spend eternity in either Heaven or
Hell. From the perspective of an obstinate heretic who was taken to
the
scaffold to be executed but who recanted before dying, the Inquisition
may have ultimately been a "good" thing, assuming, of course, that the
person went to Heaven who would have otherwise gone to Hell, except
for
the "grace" of the Inquisition. Of course, only God knows for sure.
If you think that the Inquisition was evil or misguided, just consider
the state of those countries today where the Inquisitions were the
most
active - Spain, Portugal, and Italy. Nearly everyone in those
countries
is Catholic, and consequently, all three of those nations have the
most
restrictive abortion laws in the world.
Over the course of six hundred years, the Catholic Inquisitions sent
between forty to sixty thousand individuals to the scaffold to be
burned
by the secular authorities. This is less than half the number of
abortions done in the United States every month.
Regards,
Don
Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D on 05-15-2002:
Well stated. - Dr. Carroll
COPYRIGHT 2002 EWTN
Re:Heretics
Question from Jared on 05-13-2002:
Dr. Carroll, in response to the post by Michael Edwards-Ronning on
5-11-02: I think that the popes during that time felt that the killing
of heretics was just. To figure, wouldn't it be a lot better for the
general population if a few mainstream heretics were killed, so that
the
whole population was not "infected" by the heresies of the few? What I
am trying to say is that it wasn't a terrible idea. Kill a few
heretics
to save the eternal souls of the population. That may seem harsh, but
that is the basis of my assumption. Thanks.
Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D on 05-15-2002:
Well stated. I agree with you. - Dr. Carroll
COPYRIGHT 2002 EWTN
Heresey and Burning
Question from David Betts on 05-14-2002:
Dr. Carroll,
The Papal Bull, 'Exsurge Domine,' of Jun 15, 1520, condemned the
errors
of Martin Luther and his followers. In the translation of this Bull
that
I have read, Pope Leo X repudiates the following Protestant teaching:
#33. That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit.
This proclamation by Pope Leo X proves the Catholic Church taught that
the burning of heretics was acceptable to God. Responsibility for this
practice cannot be shifted to the civil authorities, as has been
suggested.
You have termed the Reformation a 'Revolt,' which it may have been,
but
I ask you, what sort of Christian would blindly obey such twisted
doctrine ?
Respectfully,
David Betts
Answer by Dr. William Carroll on 05-18-2002:
Traditionally, burning at the stake had always been the penalty for
heresy because, as previous posters have pointed out, heresy was
believed to consign souls to hellfire. That is why this practice was
followed. - Dr. Carroll
COPYRIGHT 2002 EWTN
Re: Burning heretics at the stake
Question from Leslie Tate on 05-17-2002:
I have read with increasing horror the recent posts condoning the
burning of heretics at the stake. It seems that the conservative
branch
of the Church feels that the Crusades, the Inquisition, et. al. were
completely justified. The Church is NEVER wrong, and if you EVER
question what went on in those years, I suppose you are branded a
what,
a heretic?? I do know in my historical studies that, without a doubt,
there were many corrupt practices taking place in the Church, and that
some of the so-called heretics were really just good people trying to
make some changes (such as letting the bible be translated into the
language of the people, to be read by the people). Would not these
people who state that it was the right of the Church to burn heretics
say that modern day "heretics" (Billy Graham, perhaps?) be equally
condemned because they are Protestant? I cannot believe that ANYONE
who
professes to be a Christian would ever condone the torture and burning
of heretics. I am losing my faith in the Church if this is the case.
Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D on 05-20-2002:
Heretics are revolutionaries against the Church, and if they are given
a
free hand can and will imperil the salvation of millions and begin the
upheaval of society. Ask anyone who knew the Communist revolution in
Russia or Cuba what horrors revolution brings. - Dr. Carroll
COPYRIGHT 2002 EWTN
Heretics and Burning
Question from David Betts on 05-20-2002:
Dr. Carroll,
I have stated before my respect for your work on this forum, and
sincerely repeat it now. You defend doggedly and with expert knowledge
the truths of the Catholic faith.
I join with all those who believe that no justification for burning
heretics can be found in the character and teachings of Jesus Christ.
The defense of staking that one poster advanced at your forum --that
it
offers the terrified heretic one final, merciful chance to repent
before
being cast into hell-will not stand. That man on the stake was robbed
forever, at the Pope's orders, of any chance for the heartfelt
repentance that alone pleases God. No confession of grave sin
extracted
from a man twisting in agony could possibly bring satisfaction to
Jesus
Christ. We do not need to consult the magisterium of the Catholic
Church
to know that this is so. Nor is there any possibility that such a
gruesome spectacle could elevate public morality or restore men to a
right relationship with God. The Popes who approved this horrendous
punishment dishonored God far more than the heretics, and fueled the
Reformation.
You speak solemnly of the responsibility of central authorities (as in
Russia, Cuba, the U.S. government in 1861, the Bishop of Rome
throughout
history) to resist revolutionaries, drawing an analogy between
dangerous
political rebels and heretics. But order and discipline are not always
worthy of admiration. Life in Russia under the Czars had little to
recommend it. Would you have wanted to be a serf? Concerning Cuba,
would
you deny that the government of that island was corrupt to the core in
the years before Castro? Arguably, it still is, but there were
powerful
reasons for the uprising that took place there. It is not in praise of
Lenin and Marx that men in free countries can still reject the rule of
the Czars and the sleek hoodlums who once ran Cuba with an iron fist.
Common people have a right to fight tyranny. Do you not see that a
Pope
who passes beyond his supreme authority to identify and excommunicate
heretics, into the realm of BURNING THEM ALIVE, has departed from
Christ
and taken on the mantle of a tyrant?
Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D on 05-23-2002:
I do not advocate a return to burning at the stake, and I agree that
this penalty should not have been imposed. But revolution is the
greatest human evil in history, a veritable feast for Satan. I have a
book on this subject which gives plenty of examples: THE RISE AND FALL
OF THE COMMUNIST REVOLUTION, which you may obtain from Christendom
Press
in Front Royal, Virginia by calling toll-free 1-800-698-6649, or at
your
local library by inter-library loan. If you read this, as I hope you
will, please read my account of what happened to Armando Valladares in
Castro's Cuba, as unforgettably described in his great book AGAINST
ALL
HOPE. Anything is better than that! - Dr. Carroll
COPYRIGHT 2002 EWTN
Burning of Heretics
Question from Shawn Madden on 05-21-2002:
This is very interesting Dr. Carroll. Your post to Leslie Tate on 5-20
is, at the very least, an apologetic for the burning of heretics in
the
past, and at the worst, a call to burn present day heretics. I note
her
mentioning of a present day heretic, Billy Graham, and your lack of
any
kind of distinction between present circumstances and the past. In
fact,
it seems that you are using the communist movements in China as an
example of why the burning of heretics today would be justified.
I find your response disturbing in the extreme. Folks can say what
they
wish on EWTN's site about Catholic bashing by protestants but I have
yet
to read of a protestant justifying or calling for the burning of
Catholics.
Some extreme posititions advocating the Catholic past I can see and
understand but to dismiss so easily the burning of heretics is, in my
mind, unconscionable. I don't think that even the Feenyites go that
far.
Shawn Madden sma...@sebts.edu
Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D on 05-23-2002:
In a recent post I tried to clarify my position on this issue. I
certainly do not advocate the restoration of the butning of heretics,
because in the present climate of opinion it would hurt the Church,
and
I do not think it should have been done in the past, because we should
not deliberately inflict such great pain, nor deprive the heretic of
the
oppotunity to repent. But I do understand why it was done in the past,
for the reasons that several posters have stated. Billy Graham would
have been seen as a heretic in the past, and he is in fact a heretic
now, though he does love Christ and has done much good. - Dr. Carroll
COPYRIGHT 2002 EWTN
Inquisition
Question from Gregory Dulmes on 09-08-2002:
Why are we always apologizing for the inquisitions? Why should
Catholics
feel bad that Exsurge Domine condemned Luther for the error stating
that
the burning of heretics was against the will of the Spirit? I tire of
self-righteous critics denouncing the Church on this. Let me attempt a
defence:
1) Temporal rulers and states have the legitimate authority to
administer capital punishment.
2) At the time of the inquisitions, the states involved were
explicitly,
formally, officially *Catholic* entities. Kings and emperors were
crowned in religious ceremonies. Because the Church rebuilt Europe,
these kingdoms derived their authority from the Church.
3) A heretic was both a proliferator of doctrinal error *and a social
revolutionary*. To be a heretic meant one was dedicated to
overthrowing
both the Church and the temporal order, i.e., fomenting revolution.
4) The Church executed no one. The Church's main role was to determine
if the accused was actually a heretic or not. He or she was then
turned
over to the state - sometimes. The state's official punishment for
heresy was usually a death sentence.
Hence, since a heretic was both a false teacher and a social
revolutionary, he threatened to unleash chaos in society. I have no
doubt that, given the rulers of the time (rulers *God* allowed to be)
that the will of the Spirit was to give the heretic his just deserts
(i.e., *justice*), meaning death at the stake. This does not make God
or
the Catholic Church cruel or sadistic. Any one who thinks this is
cruel
can simply review the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, when heresy
triumphed. The tragedy in lives and souls lost speaks for itself.
Lastly, the inquisitions were not only not bad, but were good. Why?
Because they were an advancement over the mob violence and vigilante
justice that proceeded them. Everything was usually by the book,
carried
out by the due 'controlling legal authorities'. If a man was executed,
you can at least be sure that the accusations against him were true.
Where am I wrong in this?
Answer by Matthew Bunson on 09-08-2002:
Thank you for your views. They are shared by a great many people who
object to the seemingly endless number of apologies demanded from the
Church.
COPYRIGHT 2002 EWTN
Rev 17:3-6...I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of
names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was
arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious
stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations
and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead [was] a name
written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of
the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw
her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev 18
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my
people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of
her plagues.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of
all that were slain upon the earth.
~ Cindy
Teresita
>Jesus NEVER said "Kill them" Nor did the apostles or the early Christian
>Church ever do such..
ACTS 5:[4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was
it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?
thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. [5] And Ananias hearing these words
fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard
these things. [6] And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out,
and buried him. [7] And it was about the space of three hours after, when his
wife, not knowing what was done, came in. [8] And Peter answered unto her, Tell
me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. [9]
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the
Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are
at the door, and shall carry thee out. [10] Then fell she down straightway at
his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her
dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
--
Encyclopedia Teresita
http://web.newsguy.com/teresita
Joseph Geloso
Let me guess -- you did a search in the Bible for the word "judge?"
But the burning of heretics does not judge them, it only detroys their
bodies, and removes them from the position of luring the little ones
into sin. What is being judged is their false teaching, and it is
being judged because it is at variance with the Truth the God has
revealed. God is yet the judge of their souls.
Joseph Geloso
<privacy-is...@friends-already-know-it.com> wrote:
>Jesus NEVER said "Kill them" Nor did the apostles or the early Christian
>Church ever do such..
Deuteronomy 20:10. If at any time thou come to fight against a city,
thou shalt first offer it peace.
20:11. If they receive it, and open the gates to thee, all the people
that are therein, shall be saved, and shall serve thee paying tribute.
20:12. But if they will not make peace, and shall begin war against
thee, thou shalt besiege it.
20:13. And when the Lord thy God shall deliver it into thy hands, thou
shalt slay all that are therein of the male sex, with the edge of the
sword,
20:14. Excepting women and children, cattle and other things, that are
in the city. And thou shalt divide all the prey to the army, and thou
shalt eat the spoils of thy enemies, which the Lord thy God shall give
thee.
20:15. So shalt thou do to all cities that are at a great distance
from thee, and are not of these cities which thou shalt receive in
possession.
20:16. But of those cities that shall be given thee, thou shalt suffer
none at all to live:
20:17. But shalt kill them with the edge of the sword, to wit, the
Hethite, and the Amorrhite, and the Chanaanite, the Pherezite, and the
Hevite, and the Jebusite, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:
20:18. Lest they teach you to do all the abominations which they have
done to their gods: and you should sin against the Lord your God.
Dirk Hartog
>
> >Jesus NEVER said "Kill them" Nor did the apostles or the early Christian
> >Church ever do such..
[The Christian Emperor] Mauricius . . . saw to it that pagans were brought
before the courts 'in every region of the city,' and in particular, in
Carrhae-Harran. Here, the bishop…received the emperor's orders to institute
a persecution. 'Some he managed to convert to Christianity, while many who
resisted he carved up, suspending their limbs in the main street of the
town.' The local troop commander himself was denounced as a secret pagan.
He had passes as a Christian, his name was 'Danger-free"; yet he was
crucified. pg 28 [citing PLRE 3 p. 974 sv]
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 27]
amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300080778/paganoriginofthe
[The Christian Emperor] Justinian … pursued the goal of religious
uniformity as no one before him. "He did not see it as murder if the
victims did not share his own beliefs." [Procopius, Anec. 13.7] Those he
disagreed with he was likely to mutilate if he didn't behead or crucify
them…. "There was a great persecution of pagans, and many lost all their
property… A great terror was aroused … (with) a deadline of three months to
be converted." Troops were used to destroy the remotest temples.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 27]
amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300080778/paganoriginofthe
[The Christian Emperor] Tiberius' … commander Theophilus, notorious for his
savagery . . . 'Seized many of them and punished them as their impudence
merited, humbling their pride and crucifying and killing them.' [Joh. Ephes.
H.E. 3.28 - & 34, pp 115 & 123f] [Then he] summon[ed] the [pagan] high
priest of Antioch to him at Edessa. The old man killed himself…his fellow
worshiper…Anatolius…was…tortured, torn up by wild beasts, then crucified,
while his aide died of his tortures. . . Lest anyone within reach of his
voice should doubt whether his severity had been intended, Tiberius summoned
to the palace the entirety of his highest officialdom and the senate, too,
so as to have read aloud to them, from morning till night, the accounts he
had received of the actions taken at his orders against nonbelievers.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 27]
amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300080778/paganoriginofthe
"Some persons have been discovered given over to the error of the unholy and
wicked pagans, performing acts that stir a loving God to just wrath, [who]
offer sacrifice to insensate idols and celebrate festivals replete with
every impiety, even persons who have already been judged worthy of holy
baptism," who henceforth shall be executed.
[Justinian, emperor, Justinian Code, 1.11.10 ]
[During Justinian's forced conversions] a number of highly placed pagans …
escaped baptism by suicide.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. n 27, pg 182]
amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300080778/paganoriginofthe
[Of Justinian's troops] … many straightaway went everywhere from place to
place and tried to compel such persons as they met to change [to
Christianity] from their ancestral [pagan] faith. And since such action
seemed unholy to the farmer class, they all resolved to make a stand against
those who brought this message. So, then, while many were being destroyed
by the soldiers and many even made away with themselves, thinking in their
folly that they were doing a most righteous thing, and while the majority of
them, leaving their homelands, went into exile.."
[Procopius, 11.21]
[T]he bishops assembled in council (at Toledo), like Firmicus quoting
vengeful verses from Deuteronomy, called on the civil authorities to seize
and behead all those guilty of non-Christian practices of whatsoever sort.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 16]
amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300080778/paganoriginofthe
Periodic outbursts, however, of hate-filled mob or gang violence after the
mid-fourth century are indeed recorded ... and the role of the church
leadership in exciting them is clear. The leaders' appeals could be heard
over a general background of terms such as "mad", "laughable," "loathsome,"
"disgusting," "contaminating," "wicked," "ignorant," and so forth,
characteristic of ancient invective and freely applied by Christians to
everything religious that was not also Christian.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 13]
amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300080778/paganoriginofthe
Dirk Hartog
gaffo
> Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> heretics, what is wrong with that?
I see you've joined the Taliban Joe. vary dissapointed in you.
> First we have the notion condemned as error:
>
> http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
>
> [It is error to believe that] 24. The Church has not the power of
> using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect.
how long have you been a member?
> Now the question, why is that an error? Or in other words, why is it
> legitimate for the Church to use force, particularly in exterminating
> heretics?
it's not. unless you approve of the Crusades Joe. Seem that you do - so
nothing wrong with it. nothing wrong with the moars(sp) doing you same
in Spain either I quess.
> Which is worse, loss of life or loss of Faith? The answer is that loss
> of Faith is decidedly worse. One who dies with Faith (and in the state
> of grace) will be in Heaven. One who lives, having lost Faith, is on
> his way to Hell.
enjoy membership in the Taliban Joe?
> The insidiousness of heresy is that it inevitably draws away those
> whose faith is weak. Those who are mature in Faith have less to fear
> from heresy than do the babes in Faith, in particular our children.
> The littlest of children become easy prey for heretics, simply because
> they are not yet firmly established in Faith, and little children tend
> to believe what they hear. Indeed, it is the most natural course, to
> believe what one hears -- to disbelieve takes more sophistication.
> That is one reason Our Lord said, "whoever does not enter the Kingdom
> of Heaven like a little child will not enter it at all."
So indoctrination of small children is preferred over belief as an adult
by faith. not to much faith in God have you?
> The Scriptures say, "ye shall not suffer a witch to live." But
> heretics are worse than witches. Witches, it seems, do not generally
> try to make converts -- heretics do.
so you and heretics have something on common - both are fanatics.
A witch can inflict harm, but
> cannot inflict the loss of salvation.
indoctrination = salvation to you Joe?
A heretic can inflict the loss
> of salvation upon the little ones in Faith.
then it must be an inferior grade of salvation. faux salvation we'll
call it then? salvation by indoctrination, that more apt?
that is no salvation.
> The final Word on this comes from Our Lord Himself:
>
> Matthew 18:6. "But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones
> that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be
> hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of
> the sea."
I see you indorse "rightious killing".........ever put it to practice
Joe?...........some Mormans have - two are on
deathrow.................but they did save the woman by killing her.
gaffo
> Dr. Carroll,
Osama disciple.
> Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D
Doctor Bin Ladin.
> Well stated. I agree with you. - Dr. Carroll
Dr. Osama wannabee.
> This proclamation by Pope Leo X proves the Catholic Church taught that
> the burning of heretics was acceptable to God.
another Taliban wannabee............Praise be!
> Question from Leslie Tate on 05-17-2002:
civilized soul - against the Taliban mandate.
> I have read with increasing horror the recent posts condoning the
> burning of heretics at the stake. It seems that the conservative
> branch
> of the Church feels that the Crusades, the Inquisition, et. al. were
> completely justified.
the voice of reason continues to defy the Taliban inspired by Iblis.
I cannot believe that ANYONE
> who
> professes to be a Christian would ever condone the torture and burning
> of heretics.
the lone voice cries out against the soldiers of Belial.
I am losing my faith in the Church if this is the case.
the lone voice is now a Heretic which must be killed by the worshipers
of Osama and his lord, Iblis.
> Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D on 05-20-2002:
> Heretics are revolutionaries against the Church, and if they are given
> a
> free hand can and will imperil the salvation of millions and begin the
> upheaval of society. Ask anyone who knew the Communist revolution in
> Russia or Cuba what horrors revolution brings. - Dr. Carroll
the voice of Khomani cries out for order and obedience to Iblis's will.
>
> I join with all those who believe that no justification for burning
> heretics can be found in the character and teachings of Jesus Christ.
> The defense of staking that one poster advanced at your forum --that
> it
> offers the terrified heretic one final, merciful chance to repent
> before
> being cast into hell-will not stand. That man on the stake was robbed
> forever, at the Pope's orders, of any chance for the heartfelt
> repentance that alone pleases God. No confession of grave sin
> extracted
> from a man twisting in agony could possibly bring satisfaction to
> Jesus
> Christ. We do not need to consult the magisterium of the Catholic
> Church
> to know that this is so. Nor is there any possibility that such a
> gruesome spectacle could elevate public morality or restore men to a
> right relationship with God. The Popes who approved this horrendous
> punishment dishonored God far more than the heretics, and fueled the
> Reformation.
another Heretic cries out againt the Taliban reichbots!.............
> You speak solemnly of the responsibility of central authorities (as in
> Russia, Cuba, the U.S. government in 1861, the Bishop of Rome
> throughout
> history) to resist revolutionaries, drawing an analogy between
> dangerous
> political rebels and heretics. But order and discipline are not always
> worthy of admiration. Life in Russia under the Czars had little to
> recommend it. Would you have wanted to be a serf? Concerning Cuba,
> would
> you deny that the government of that island was corrupt to the core in
> the years before Castro? Arguably, it still is, but there were
> powerful
> reasons for the uprising that took place there. It is not in praise of
> Lenin and Marx that men in free countries can still reject the rule of
> the Czars and the sleek hoodlums who once ran Cuba with an iron fist.
> Common people have a right to fight tyranny. Do you not see that a
> Pope
> who passes beyond his supreme authority to identify and excommunicate
> heretics, into the realm of BURNING THEM ALIVE, has departed from
> Christ
> and taken on the mantle of a tyrant?
the second voice in defence of the first proclaims social justice is to
be honoured!!.............and not the Taliban, nor Osama nor Iblis.
> Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D
Dr. Death replies .....below
> I do not advocate a return to burning at the stake,
see? not only can the Devil lie.
and I agree that
> this penalty should not have been imposed.
ibid.
But revolution is the
> greatest human evil in history, a veritable feast for Satan.
Dr Death must not be an American, since he hates Revolution so much. A
good Catholic Wig not doubt.
I have a
> book on this subject which gives plenty of examples: THE RISE AND FALL
> OF THE COMMUNIST REVOLUTION, which you may obtain from Christendom
> Press
> in Front Royal, Virginia by calling toll-free 1-800-698-6649, or at
> your
> local library by inter-library loan.
I have a little paper on this subject too. A rag call the Dec. of
Independance............such a hatefull thing to do - to revolt!! Damn
all Americans for breaking from the Crown!
If you read this, as I hope you
> will, please read my account of what happened to Armando Valladares in
> Castro's Cuba, as unforgettably described in his great book AGAINST
> ALL
> HOPE. Anything is better than that! - Dr. Carroll
yes, and read all those works by the anti-christ founding fathers who
revolted against his royal magesty king George (no not the
Chimp.......well the earlier one).
Shawn Madden
a voice of inquisative inventiveness and introspection is
arroused.......the dark is awakened and prepared for a defence of murder.
> it seems that you are using the communist movements in China as an
> example of why the burning of heretics today would be justified.
Dr Death is silent.............mulling a defence against the light.
> I find your response disturbing in the extreme. Folks can say what
> they
the independant thought is noted by Dr Death...........it must be
destroyed!!!......for that way is heresy!
> wish on EWTN's site about Catholic bashing by protestants but I have
> yet
> to read of a protestant justifying or calling for the burning of
> Catholics.
heretic!!...burn the heretic!!
> In a recent post I tried to clarify my position on this issue.
Dr Death is.................what do they say?...............backpeddling.
I
> certainly do not advocate the restoration of the butning of heretics,
see above....................the Iblis worshiper lies again...
> because in the present climate of opinion it would hurt the Church,
ya think?????????//.......gee I don't know.............LOL
> and
> I do not think it should have been done in the past, because we should
> not deliberately inflict such great pain, nor deprive the heretic of
> the
> oppotunity to repent.
"deprive"...............oh the one in ten that were not offered the
choice to burn or recant - I see.
the other 90 percent are ok to burn.
But I do understand why it was done in the past,
> for the reasons that several posters have stated. Billy Graham would
> have been seen as a heretic in the past, and he is in fact a heretic
> now, though he does love Christ and has done much good. - Dr. Carroll
.................Graham loves Christ, yet is a Heretic and dammed to
hell........where Dr Death is not?
not a lover of Christ - thats for sure.
> Gregory Dulmes
Jr Taliban speaks in defence of Iblis and Dr Death........
> Why are we always apologizing for the inquisitions? Why should
> Catholics
> feel bad that Exsurge Domine condemned Luther for the error stating
> that
> the burning of heretics was against the will of the Spirit? I tire of
> self-righteous critics denouncing the Church on this.
HEAR HEAR!!!!!!!!!!! the sword and all that.........cheerio!
Let me attempt a
> defence:
of murder.......
>
> 1) Temporal rulers and states have the legitimate authority to
> administer capital punishment.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm if you say so..............just ignore inalienable rights
given each and every man by God.
off to a good Reichbot stance. State above Man - check one.
> 2) At the time of the inquisitions, the states involved were
> explicitly,
> formally, officially *Catholic* entities. Kings and emperors were
> crowned in religious ceremonies. Because the Church rebuilt Europe,
> these kingdoms derived their authority from the Church.
same as above.............Reichbot. State over men. State over
inalienable rights............so State over God.
> 3) A heretic was both a proliferator of doctrinal error *and a social
> revolutionary*. To be a heretic meant one was dedicated to
> overthrowing
> both the Church and the temporal order, i.e., fomenting revolution.
yes........all american citizens are heretics via 1776. All REAL
Catholics must renounce their Uniteed States citizenship and move to a
State with the Roman Catholic religion as the State Religion (that
leaves out Italy now, since the courts there have ruled that the State
of Italy is NOT a Catholic State)
All REAL Catholics could petition the Vatican for citizenship and
residency though. Finding the room to fit their might be fun.
good luck..........don't let the Revolution loving American heretic door
kick you on your way out Bubba.
> 4) The Church executed no one. The Church's main role was to determine
> if the accused was actually a heretic or not. He or she was then
> turned
> over to the state - sometimes. The state's official punishment for
> heresy was usually a death sentence.
well, since you stated above that the State is above God, then the
Church indeed burned heretics.
> Hence, since a heretic was both a false teacher and a social
> revolutionary, he threatened to unleash chaos in society.
like the founding fathers............they must be burned!
I have no
> doubt that, given the rulers of the time (rulers *God* allowed to be)
and thus the Church burned the heretic via it instrument the
State.........thus point #4 is revoked by the idiot who just proposed it!
> that the will of the Spirit was to give the heretic his just deserts
> (i.e., *justice*), meaning death at the stake. This does not make God
> or
> the Catholic Church cruel or sadistic.
howls the bowels of Belial!!!
Any one who thinks this is
> cruel
> can simply review the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, when heresy
> triumphed. The tragedy in lives and souls lost speaks for itself.
the Taliban wannabee pontificates.
> Lastly, the inquisitions were not only not bad, but were good.
dark is light, good is bad..............thus speaketh Satan's little one.
Why?
??? i'm sure you will enlighten us.
> Because they were an advancement over the mob violence and vigilante
> justice that proceeded them.
yes, the Greeks were really unruly. all that democracy, so unordered.
VEE MUST HAVE ORDER!! Zig HEiL!
Everything was usually by the book,
> carried
> out by the due 'controlling legal authorities'. If a man was executed,
> you can at least be sure that the accusations against him were true.
yes. the offense is unimportant. jaywalkers challenge the State - they
all must die!
> Where am I wrong in this?
right on mark as a deciple of Belial.
> Answer by Matthew Bunson on 09-08-2002:
> Thank you for your views. They are shared by a great many people who
> object to the seemingly endless number of apologies demanded from the
> Church.
yes another Taliban recruit.
> Rev 17:3-6...I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of
> names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was
> arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious
> stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations
> and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead [was] a name
> written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
> ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of
> the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw
> her, I wondered with great admiration.
>
> Rev 18
> 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my
> people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of
> her plagues.
> 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of
> all that were slain upon the earth.
>
> ~ Cindy
>
>
amen.
gaffo
and?
God did the killing, not men.
gaffo
one only needs to read Revelations to see what John thought of these men.
gaffo
Taliban
rodney_victor
asked:
> Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> heretics, what is wrong with that?
One does not have to "suppose for a moment" that the accusation is
true. It is true, and it is well documented, and the current pope has
even apologised for it, although his apology appears to be a matter of
"too little, too late".
Since Joseph Geloso apparently does not know what is wrong with this
grotesque and evil practice of the Roman Catholic Church, it must be
pointed out to him that it is actuated by the spirit of Satan, and not
that of Christ.
God gave us all free will. We all have the opportunity to accept Him
or to reject Him. If the Roman Catholic Church had the spirit of
Christ, it would follow His example.
If Joseph Geloso considers the Word of God to be authorative, he may
like to consider the story about the Samaritan village where the
people did not receive Jesus. It's in Luke 9:52-56.
"When James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we
command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias
did? But He turned and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner
of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's
lives, but to save them."
The policy of the Roman Catholic Church regarding people who reject
its teachings is the EXACT OPPOSITE of that of Jesus. I wonder if
Roman Catholics are aware of "what manner of spirit" it is that has
motivated them to adopt a policy that is diamatericaaly opposed to
that of Jesus.
Joseph Geloso may also like to consider the parable of the wheat and
the tares in Matthew 13.
In verse 30, Jesus said: "Let both (the wheat and the tares) grow
together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to
the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in
bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
And then in verse 40, Jesus explains the parable by saying: "As
therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it
be in the end."
The policy laid down by Jesus is that He will Himself deal with the
"tares" at the end of time. He does not require any so-called
"assistance" from any pope, priest or inquisition who think they are
doing God's work but who are in fact motivated by a totally different
power.
€ R.L. Measures
<ga...@usenet.net> wrote:
> Joseph Geloso wrote:
> > Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> > others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> > heretics, what is wrong with that?
>
> I see you've joined the Taliban Joe. vary dissapointed in you.
>
*** Did the Taliban burn heretics and witches at the stake? .
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
Raymond
"gaffo" <ga...@usenet.net> wrote in message
news:IxZpb.1635$Zx6....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> Teresita wrote:
>
> > In article <b2cb5c8457168d50...@news.teranews.com>, Truth
says...
> >
> >
> >>Jesus NEVER said "Kill them" Nor did the apostles or the early Christian
> >>Church ever do such..
> >
Truth
"Raymond" <rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bob6u1$bm...@rain.i-cable.com...
> > > >
> > > Truth says...
> > > >>Jesus NEVER said "Kill them" Nor did the apostles or the early
Christian
> > >>Church ever do such..
> > >
> What is your point here, the above is true and proven by your words
below.
Who are you asking? Each only said one thing. Teresita upholds Rome's
mandates, and justifies murder scripturally, I do not, it appears Gaffo
does not either...
> >gaffo" wrote in message:
gaffo
> The policy laid down by Jesus is that He will Himself deal with the
> "tares" at the end of time. He does not require any so-called
> "assistance" from any pope, priest or inquisition who think they are
> doing God's work but who are in fact motivated by a totally different
> power.
Well said!!!!!!!!
I wonder it the new Taliban Joe has read your relivant post..........
Raymond
"Truth" <privacy-is...@friends-already-know-it.com> wrote in message
news:33c3a9908afe11b7...@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Raymond" <rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bob6u1$bm...@rain.i-cable.com...
> > > > >
> > > > Truth says...
> > > > >>Jesus NEVER said "Kill them" Nor did the apostles or the early
> Christian
> > > >>Church ever do such..
> > > >
> > What is your point here, the above is true and proven by your words
> below.
>
> Who are you asking? Each only said one thing. Teresita upholds Rome's
> mandates, and justifies murder scripturally, I do not, it appears Gaffo
> does not either...
I was only replying to the statement that is still there, the bible never
said to KILL THEM! So I asking who ever said it did to prove such by
finding the term murder them, kill them, etc, or any such group of words.
The Bible did say some just dropped dead, when the Holy Spirit was lied to.
Then that is God doing the killing not the Christians, and it really had
nothing to do with the people as these folks lied against the Holy Spirit
and then lied in the Church and died there, no one killed them, their heart
just gave out. So I not siding with anyone, just saying that statement was
correct.
I Am a sockpupet
>that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be
>hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of
>the sea."
>
>
>
>
>
>
Funny anyone would quote that coming from the RCC. I find that rather ironic
Brian D
Which is worse, loss of life or loss of Faith? The answer is that loss
of Faith is decidedly worse
"
Joshua 10:40
40 So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the
Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all
their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed,
just as the LORD , the God of Israel, had commanded.
HARDEN HEARTS BY GOD
Joshua 11:20
20 For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against
Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without
mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
Jeremiah 48:10
10 "A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!
A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!
"
Now I see that you poosted this to multiple newsgroups of various
denominations. Since each of you believes his/hers is the CORRECT view go
now and do the Lord's work on each other!!!
Time to cool it a bit. Hey but since this originated in a RC NG. Try this
out.
Place that next to your papal encylical.
Brian D.
Raymond
"Brian D" <nos...@spiderfree.com> wrote in message
news:Uqqqb.2253$p9....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> "
> Which is worse, loss of life or loss of Faith? The answer is that loss
> of Faith is decidedly worse
Why ask, if your going to answer to? Then Faith could mean anything, and a
whole lot of non-christian things as well.
What is worse lost of faith in Jesus as the Lord? Would be a better
question, then just Faith.
> "
>
> Joshua 10:40
> 40 So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the
> Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all
> their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed,
> just as the LORD , the God of Israel, had commanded.
>
>
>
> HARDEN HEARTS BY GOD
>
> Joshua 11:20
> 20 For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war
against
> Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without
> mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
>
> Jeremiah 48:10
> 10 "A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!
> A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!
When you take things out of context it is just like the "faith" question,
you lose the meaning of the statement, and why it was writen.
> Now I see that you poosted this to multiple newsgroups of various
> denominations. Since each of you believes his/hers is the CORRECT view go
> now and do the Lord's work on each other!!!
You have no idea what each of us think let along believe.
>
>
>
> Time to cool it a bit. Hey but since this originated in a RC NG. Try this
> out.
>
>
> Brian D.
>
>
>
>
Not-easily-duped
Even for the sake of harmony in the policies of the state, social policies,
law, it is no good to have many conflicting doctrines under one government.
Church was meant by God as a source for public policies as opposed
to barbarians harsh Laws.
Susan Williams
trained to tell lies, what portion of what they post should be
considered true? They came in telling us about love. They told us we
must not verbally attack anyone and posted in emotion about this.
They constantly told us that, when we defeated them on doctrine, we
hate them just because they disagree with us. They made it out how
valuable it is to have the right to disagree. Here now they are
telling us that any not of their religion legitimately must die.
What portion then of anything they tell us is true? Why not go public
and let the world know that the mandates of Rome are opposed to
Homeland Security? How many stand to die by the principles of death
given us by these unchanged killers? Does it match with the 6,000 who
died on 911.
Why, in the interest of love then, did they come out with the
following scripture:
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God
with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength,
and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou
shalt live.
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my
neighbour?
==========
Below this comes the parable of the Good Samaritan. Antichrist
Andrew, the fake Adventist, tells us we must not insult or send sharp
thrust to super-terrorists. He therefore sends insults and sharp
thrusts to us. According to him, we can do it to good people. He
calls us Cyberdemoniacs, etc. Now he reads from some other Catholic
like himself, THAT NON-CATHOLICS CAN LEGITIMATELY BE EXTERMINATED, and
it doesn't bother him! You mean to have to tell me you have to think
to know that he is a servant of the Antichrist?
Why then did Christ give us the golden rule? Who is our neighbour to
killer Catholics? Fellow Catholics???? Is that what it is saying?
In the parable of the Good Samaritan, the wounded man was from another
religion. Rome dictates and still justifies the idea that all from
other religions MUST DIE!
They bring Old Testament scripture to defend their killiings. They
ignored over and over again our posted differences between then and
the Israelites which inclludes the fact that the Israelites never
covered up their killings. They never mutilated nor raped their
victims. They were never faced with people who can draw rings around
them using the scriptures and then forcing them to enact measures to
prevent people from speaking.
What is to be done with the unbeliever? Expostulate for us from the
New Testament. Explain why there appears to be a difference from the
Old to the New. Show why favor mus be shown to the Old by killers.
In His Grace,
Susan
On 6 Nov 2003 06:08:41 -0800, Codeb...@bigsecret.com
(Not-easily-duped) wrote:
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
Susan Williams
is legitimate to wipe out all non-Catholics. All this in the face of
the fake Adventist cursing us because we expose people who condemn
human life and then teaching us that we must not insult others.
Christ came to save the lost Antichrist Andrew tells us. Here are the
many posts of people telling us all non-Catholics must die. Why
doesn't it bother him? Why not try asking him and watch him ignore
all your questions?
==========
prevent people from speaking. That is why Antichrist Andrew, the fake
Adventist, constantly posts and ignores our questions that we give him
as shown at the very bottom of this post.
What is to be done with the unbeliever? Expostulate for us from the
New Testament. Explain why there appears to be a difference from the
Old to the New. Show why favor mus be shown to the Old by killers.
In His Grace,
Susan
On 6 Nov 2003 06:08:41 -0800, Codeb...@bigsecret.com
(Not-easily-duped) wrote:
HERE IS THE QUESTION CONSTANTLY ASKED ANTICHRIST ANDREW AND CONSTANTLY
IGNORED BY HIM FOR OBVIOUS REASONS:
===========
Here is the deliberately insulting post written against Brother Ted by
Antichrist Andrew. Andrew is an infiltrator to Adventism from the
Pope! Go to the link and look at the post which this man is, again in
the keeping of the Jesuit Oath, claiming is not insulting and wasn't
made to be so:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=a3368n%245i3%241%40nntp9.atl.mindspring.net
That post starts out like this:
Dear Ted,
It is most obvious from your frequent postings that you are a very
troubled and unhappy person. I know that it is easy and natural for
others to judge you not knowing the severe childhood trauma you may
have experienced coupled with a dysfunctional home from your early
days until now. You must have experienced great pain.
-------------------------------------
How does the man know that Brother Ted had severe childhood trauma and
a dysfunctional home, especially when he didn't??? Where is his
documentation? And when we tell the world that he is a trained
killer, what does he respond with?
Read the rest of the post and understand the demons of the Inquisition
ALIVE AND UNCHANGED TODAY!!!
----------------------------------------
The Jesuit infiltrator continues:
I am sorry Ted, for these things in your life which have
brought you to the condition you are in now. Please be
it known to you that there is a God in heaven who loves
you. There is an all powerful Savior who is able to make
something beautiful of your life and to give you a place
with Him through all future ages in His kingdom of glory.
It was unclear on other posts whether you claimed to be
a Christian. Now, while the door of mercy is still open,
while probationary hours are fast fleeting into eternity, is
the opportunity for you (and all of us) to respond to the
powerful drawing of Jesus Christ .. to humble ourselves
before Him in repentance for our sins and to surrender
our lives to Him daily.
Dear Ted, if you do these things and learn of Jesus Christ
through prayer and the study of His words and teachings,
then the peace of heaven will replace the anxieties which
plague you now. Then your influence will reveal the
fruits of God's spirit to the glory of Jesus Christ.
____________ James 3: 13-18_______________
"Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him
show out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not,
and lie
not against the truth.
This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual,
devilish.
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil
work.
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable,
gentle,
and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without
partiality,
and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in
peace of
them that make peace."
May His peace and presence fill your heart as you
surrender to Him now is my prayer for you.
Now here is my appeal to the sinister devil in human form:
Dear Antichrist Andrew,
It is most obvious from your frequent postings that you are a very
troubled and unhappy person. I know that it is easy and natural for
others to judge you not knowing the severe childhood trauma you may
have experienced coupled with a dysfunctional home from your early
days until now. You must have experienced great pain.
I am sorry Andrew, for these things in your life which have brought
you to the condition you are in now. Please be it known to you that
there is a God in heaven who loves you. There is an all powerful
Savior who is able to make something beautiful of your life and to
give you a place with Him through all future ages in His kingdom of
glory, SO LONG AS YOU QUIT WORKING FOR THE POPE AND OBEYING THAT
JESUIT OATH!!
It was unclear on other posts whether you claimed to be a Christian.
Now, while the door of mercy is still open, while probationary hours
are fast fleeting into eternity, is the opportunity for you (and all
of us) to respond to the powerful drawing of Jesus Christ .. to humble
ourselves before Him in repentance for our sins and to surrender our
lives to Him daily.
Dear Antichrist Andrew, if you do these things and learn of Jesus
Christ through prayer and the study of His words and teachings, then
the peace of heaven will replace the anxieties which plague you now
eventually as you finally make it up to criminal status and then you
can work the rest of your life to become a Christian!. Then your
influence will reveal the fruits of God's spirit to the glory of Jesus
Christ.
____________ James 3: 13-18_______________
"Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him show
out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not,
and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above,
but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil
work.
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable,
gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits,
without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of
righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace."
May His peace and presence fill your heart as you surrender to Him now
is my prayer for you.
And don't forget!!!
WE LOVE YOU ANTICHRIST DEMON ANDREW!! WE LOVE YOU!!
DON'T YOU LOVE ME??
In His Grace,
Susan
€ R.L. Measures
<nos...@spiderfree.com> wrote:
> "
> Which is worse, loss of life or loss of Faith? The answer is that loss
> of Faith is decidedly worse
> "
>
*** If the Faith is a human creation, what then?
Susan Williams
wrote:
>In article <Uqqqb.2253$p9....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Brian D"
><nos...@spiderfree.com> wrote:
>
>> "
>> Which is worse, loss of life or loss of Faith? The answer is that loss
>> of Faith is decidedly worse
>> "
>>
>*** If the Faith is a human creation, what then?
Killing them doesn't add faith. It adds confidence in a cult that
hates the principles of Homeland Security?
We saw a video one time that depicted the Ustashis of WWII. They
brought some of their victims to a famous Cathedral where they were
told that they can have their lives spared if they converted to
Catholicism. Some of them agreed. We saw a picture of just such
some. We were told that the Catholics there burned down the building
over them after they converted with the rational that it would be
better for them to die saved as Catholics than to risk them converting
to something else later once the threat to their lives were gone!
Then we saw Joseph Meehan tell us that it is better to kill a man than
to corrupt his soul. You mean they don't infiltrate the entertainment
industry also to make their victim nations morally corrupt so that
they can fall?
John Fraser
"Susan Williams" <SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nimkqvoght9te50f7...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 07:16:25 -0800, +r...@somis.org (? R.L. Measures)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <Uqqqb.2253$p9....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Brian D"
> ><nos...@spiderfree.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "
> >> Which is worse, loss of life or loss of Faith? The answer is that loss
> >> of Faith is decidedly worse
> >> "
> >>
> >*** If the Faith is a human creation, what then?
>
> Killing them doesn't add faith. It adds confidence in a cult that
> hates the principles of Homeland Security?
>
> We saw a video one time that depicted the Ustashis of WWII. They
> brought some of their victims to a famous Cathedral where they were
> told that they can have their lives spared if they converted to
> Catholicism. Some of them agreed. We saw a picture of just such
> some. We were told that the Catholics there burned down the building
> over them after they converted with the rational that it would be
> better for them to die saved as Catholics than to risk them converting
> to something else later once the threat to their lives were gone!
>
> Then we saw Joseph Meehan tell us that it is better to kill a man than
> to corrupt his soul. You mean they don't infiltrate the entertainment
> industry also to make their victim nations morally corrupt so that
> they can fall?
>
> In His Grace,
> Susan
Nah, they just wanted them dead. Before killing them, the ego of the
killers needed to hear that their way was best.
Cheers,
John
Not-easily-duped
> Below is one of the posts written by super-terrorists who tell us it
> is legitimate to wipe out all non-Catholics. All this in the face of
> the fake Adventist cursing us because we expose people who condemn
> human life and then teaching us that we must not insult others.
> Christ came to save the lost Antichrist Andrew tells us. Here are the
> many posts of people telling us all non-Catholics must die. Why
> doesn't it bother him? Why not try asking him and watch him ignore
> all your questions?
>
> Are all these things stated by not-so-easily-duped true? If they are
> trained to tell lies, what portion of what they post should be
> considered true? They came in telling us about love. They told us we
> must not verbally attack anyone and posted in emotion about this.
> They constantly told us that, when we defeated them on doctrine, we
> hate them just because they disagree with us. They made it out how
> valuable it is to have the right to disagree. Here now they are
> telling us that any not of their religion legitimately must die.
>
What is it Susan fussing about?
gaffo
you don't like humanist concepts or america and her civil
structure............feel free to move to the vaticon.
€ R.L. Measures
<SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 07:16:25 -0800, +r...@somis.org (€ R.L. Measures)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <Uqqqb.2253$p9....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Brian D"
> ><nos...@spiderfree.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "
> >> Which is worse, loss of life or loss of Faith? The answer is that loss
> >> of Faith is decidedly worse
> >> "
> >>
> >*** If the Faith is a human creation, what then?
>
> Killing them doesn't add faith. It adds confidence in a cult that
> hates the principles of Homeland Security?
>
> We saw a video one time that depicted the Ustashis of WWII. They
> brought some of their victims to a famous Cathedral where they were
> told that they can have their lives spared if they converted to
> Catholicism. Some of them agreed. We saw a picture of just such
> some. We were told that the Catholics there burned down the building
> over them after they converted with the rational that it would be
> better for them to die saved as Catholics than to risk them converting
> to something else later once the threat to their lives were gone!
>
> Then we saw Joseph Meehan tell us that it is better to kill a man than
> to corrupt his soul. You mean they don't infiltrate the entertainment
> industry also to make their victim nations morally corrupt so that
> they can fall?
>
> In His Grace,
>
>
> Susan
>
*** __________
Alan M
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.0311...@posting.google.com...
That's a good question in theory. In practice I don't think anyone can
answer it. Susie certainly can't. Susie's "explanations" are just more of
the same twaddle. To date, noone else has been able to explain Susie's fuss
either.
Alan M
>
> "Joseph Geloso" <jose...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ucmfqv86hu3pe3p15...@4ax.com...
> >
> > Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> > others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> > heretics, what is wrong with that?
> >
> > First we have the notion condemned as error:
> >
> > http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
> >
> > [It is error to believe that] 24. The Church has not the power of
> > using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect.
> >
> > Now the question, why is that an error? Or in other words, why is it
> > legitimate for the Church to use force, particularly in exterminating
> > heretics?
> >
> > of grace) will be in Heaven. One who lives, having lost Faith, is on
> > his way to Hell.
> >
> > The insidiousness of heresy is that it inevitably draws away those
> > whose faith is weak. Those who are mature in Faith have less to fear
> > from heresy than do the babes in Faith, in particular our children.
> > The littlest of children become easy prey for heretics, simply because
> > they are not yet firmly established in Faith, and little children tend
> > to believe what they hear. Indeed, it is the most natural course, to
> > believe what one hears -- to disbelieve takes more sophistication.
> > That is one reason Our Lord said, "whoever does not enter the Kingdom
> > of Heaven like a little child will not enter it at all."
> >
> > The Scriptures say, "ye shall not suffer a witch to live." But
> > heretics are worse than witches. Witches, it seems, do not generally
> > try to make converts -- heretics do. A witch can inflict harm, but
> > cannot inflict the loss of salvation. A heretic can inflict the loss
> > of salvation upon the little ones in Faith.
> >
> > The final Word on this comes from Our Lord Himself:
> >
> > Matthew 18:6. "But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones
> > that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be
> > hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of
> > the sea."
>
> Church ever do such..
>
> Jhn 16
> 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that
> whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
> 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known
> the Father, nor me.
>
> In Mat 23 He also called the Pharissees murders simply because they had
> the same mindset of their Fathers who killed the prophets:
> 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children
> of them which killed the prophets.
> 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
> 33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the
> damnation of hell?
> 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and
> scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of
> them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city
> to city:
> 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth,
> from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of
> Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
>
> How much more do these words apply in this day when you justify the
> murders of your Fathers???
>
> You killers are coming out of the woodwork now, and still it seems that
> most can't notice.
> Andrew certainly won't. Nor is this Dark ages thinking isolated to a
> few.
Cindy,
This "killer" is probably just a troll. I don't go for the Dark Ages stuff
myself.
There is a possibility that this person was serious and that other people
really think along these lines. Such people are indeed killers, at least in
their own minds. They've crossed the boundary, as all tyrants have done, to
justify killing in the name of their "cause".
Not-easily-duped
How about this, I don't like Vatican centralized Church policies
which run against God intended plans for nations and their Laws.
I don't want to see the Vatican claiming monopole on Christ the
Jews King and universal Savior. And my objections are grounded
on this simple but powerfull verse: MESSIAH is a prophet like
Moses. Since any ruler according to that verse is in the likeness
of Christ/Messiah for sound Laws and sound public policies in a given
kingdom, why do we need the Vatican for?
€ R.L. Measures
Codeb...@bigsecret.com (Not-easily-duped) wrote:
> gaffo <ga...@usenet.net> wrote in message
news:<u4Bqb.121$XD2.51...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>...
> > Not-easily-duped wrote:
> > > Joseph Geloso <jose...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<ucmfqv86hu3pe3p15...@4ax.com>...
> > >
> > >>Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> > >>others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> > >>heretics, what is wrong with that?
> > >>...
> > > Even for the sake of harmony in the policies of the state, social
policies,
> > > law, it is no good to have many conflicting doctrines under one
government.
> > > Church was meant by God as a source for public policies as opposed
> > > to barbarians harsh Laws.
> >
> >
> > you don't like humanist concepts or america and her civil
> > structure............feel free to move to the vatican.
>
> How about this, I don't like Vatican centralized Church policies
> which run against God intended plans for nations and their Laws.
> I don't want to see the Vatican claiming monopole on Christ the
> Jews King and universal Savior. And my objections are grounded
> on this simple but powerfull verse: MESSIAH is a prophet like
> Moses. Since any ruler according to that verse is in the likeness
> of Christ/Messiah for sound Laws and sound public policies in a given
> kingdom, why do we need the Vatican for?
€ We don't need it, the Curia does.
A heretic is anyone who doesn't buy our shtik.
Teresita
>
>
>"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
>news:bbba7302.0311...@posting.google.com...
>> What is it Susan fussing about?
>
>That's a good question in theory. In practice I don't think anyone can
>answer it. Susie certainly can't. Susie's "explanations" are just more of
>the same twaddle. To date, noone else has been able to explain Susie's fuss
>either.
>
Now Opus Dei killers unleash Jesuit-trained Super-Terrorist Alan M to follow in
Ted Seeber and Andrews bloody footsteps! This super-criminal Alan M leads ARCA
to puzzle over explanations for sister Susan William's twaddle while Vatican
secret agents call for the torture and mutilation of all non-Catholics!
;-)
In his grace,
Truth
"Teresita" <tere...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:bogvd...@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <bCJqb.605$aT....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Alan M
says...
> >
> >
> >"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
> >news:bbba7302.0311...@posting.google.com...
>
> >> What is it Susan fussing about?
> >
> >That's a good question in theory. In practice I don't think anyone
can
> >answer it. Susie certainly can't. Susie's "explanations" are just
more of
> >the same twaddle. To date, noone else has been able to explain
Susie's fuss
> >either.
Teresita knows and can explain it.
Doesn't Susan quote Teresita's actual words?
Haven't you read them??
Do you see Teresita saying "no I don't believe what I said"???
See the words of unchanging Teresita, representing unchanging Rome in
other posts below.
> >Teresita:
> Now Opus Dei killers unleash Jesuit-trained Super-Terrorist Alan M to
follow in
> Ted Seeber and Andrews bloody footsteps! This super-criminal Alan M
leads ARCA
> to puzzle over explanations for sister Susan William's twaddle while
Vatican
> secret agents call for the torture and mutilation of all
non-Catholics!
>
> ;-)
>
> In his grace,
> Encyclopedia Teresita
> http://web.newsguy.com/teresita
>
Teresita is BEING DECEPTIVE. She is working hard to cover all this up,
and make it look ridiculous, and like a joke, but has NOT TAKEN BACK, OR
APOLOGISED FOR ONE WORD SINGLE WORD OR BELIEF SHE HAS EVER POSTED. She
in fact, has refused to do so. Does Rome change? Has Teresita?
These are not new tactics, as just one example; anyone who is familiar
with all the stories and witness reports that were ridiculed, and made
out to be conspiracy theories, and paranoia, and even made to seem more
ridiculous, and unbelievable because they were reported in the tabloids,
in the years before the Stealth Bomber was revealed, when the stories
were actually found to be true, has seen the same tactics used by our
own government in the interest of "security" and the "common good"..
Teresita was not amused or laughing five years ago, when she then, as
now, showed every contempt for the principles the U.S. was founded on,
and called the founding Fathers a pack of Rebels, and justified Romes
murderous mandates and called them necessary,and called for a return to
this past. Her words now are the same! Ask her if she still believes
what she said! Nor was Teresita laughing when she was asked how she
could identify hatred in the words pointing this out, and yet not notice
Shan's profanity or hatred, because in response to the post after that
demonstrating what Teresita justifies, and how that is in keeping with
the jesuit oath,which she says doesn't exist, and is an example of real
hatred she next answered with profanity, without one word of protest
against the crimes of the Ustashi, or condemnation of the principle and
mandate they followed. See the posts below:
Open your eyes, and judge for yourself.
~ Cindy
From: Teresita
Subject: Re: Papal document on Sunday sacredness coming July 7th!
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.adventist
Date: 1998/07/02
In article <359C1A09...@aloha.net>, Michael says...
>
>According to the Vatican Information Service press
>release of July 2nd, John Paul II will release an
>Apostolic Letter titled "Dies Domini" (The Lord's Day),
>on Tuesday July 7th. Pope John Paul II will
>likely re-emphasize the obligation that Catholics have to
>assist in the Mass every Sunday, unless they are unable
>to for "serious reasons." Also likely to be addressed is
>the need for the Christian to refrain from working on
>Sundays, so that it may be observed as a "day of rest".
Teresita:
Father of providence, look with love on our Pope, your appointed
successor to
St. Peter, on whom you built your Church. May he be the visible center
and
foundation of our unity in faith and love. Amen.
[Teresita, you are a very nice writer, can you write
the same thing with God instead of Pope and Can you
say the same thing of Christ, and is it the same
thing for you? Same Importance?
Would you rather follow the Pope or Christ?]
Teresita:
The Church urges us to pray for all whom Christ has called to positions
of responsibility in the Church, that God may guard them in truth and
love,
and reward them for their service to us. We should pray for our parish
priests, our bishops, and in a special way for the Holy Father, the
Vicar of the Son
of God.
[Of Course you are counting just with the Universal Church but I think
there are much more people "whom Christ has called to positions of
responsibility"]
Teresita:
Other Christian churches possess some of the same basic characteristics
in common with us, such as the solemnity of the Lord's Day, but since
that
is a characteristic of the Church of Christ,
**it is a force impelling towards Catholic unity.**
[NOW WE BEGIN TO SEE WHAT THE REAL AGENDA IS!
With respect, sister, I understand that the Roman Catholic position is
that we should all be united under one banner...You will be pleased to
learn, I'm sure that scripture does indicate that you'll get back your
lost sheep at the time of the end. The whole flock is scheduled to hook
up with Rome just prior to Armegeddon ...You frighten me a bit, sister.
You're probably a nice lady, but it's scarey the way you quote Catholic
dogma. It's like those spooky Bible studies I had when I was 12 and they
warned us about Catholics wanting to absorb our church and force us to
worship on Sunday. Sounds to me like the Pope's saying Sunday rest is
some kind of "worker's right". Are you advocating
legislation? Would you tell me if you were?]
Teresita's response:
>You frighten me a bit, sister. You're probably a nice lady, but it's
scarey
>the way you quote Catholic dogma.
There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear
has todo with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in
love."
(1 John 4:18)
>Sounds to me like the Pope's saying Sunday rest is some kind of
>"worker's right". Are you advocating legislation? Would you
>tell me if you were?
T;
"Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is
no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established
by
God."
(Rom 13:1)
[I can accomplish those dead works only through Christ's strength anyway
and that's the point of Jesus' sacrifice, to enable us to grow closer
and
more like him. Sabbath keeping is a joy and if it's not, it's
valueless.]
Teresita:
It's not valueless on the basis of "joy" or the lack of "joy",
it is valueless on the basis of Galatians 5:4
--"You are separated from Christ, you who are
trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
[I'm not asking perfection, I'm asking that the church I worship with
not adopt a public position, written down for all to see that says it
has the
power "to changes times and laws" that's all! Mine doesn't, yours does.]
Teresita:
Agreed. You do not have the "binding" and "loosing" authority conferred
on St. Peter by Christ when he gave him the keys to the Kingdom of
Heaven
(recorded in the gospel of Matthew).
[And how do you know an authority is from God? Well, I would expect it
to match up with what scripture has revealed of God. If it does not. If
it
does not submit to God's authority, but says, "No, I don't like this
thing here too much, so I'm gonna change it to make it a little more
palatable
for the pagans and thereby increase my popularity (and power - let's not
forget that!), then I think there's something wrong with the system.
How
convenient! And how unlike God!]
Teresita:
You cannot make that call. Romans 13:1 says "..there is NO authority
except from God, and those that exist have been established by God."
There is
nothing about judging for oneself, testing if an authority is from God.
This
was the error our Founding Fathers made, breaking from God's anointed
(King
George III) in a spirit of rebellion over taxes, in opposition to Romans
13:7 ("Pay
to all their due, taxes to whom taxes are due, toll to whome toll is
due,
respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.") Sadly,
the entire
history of Protestantism (indeed the very name) has been one of
rebellion and
ungodly individualism.
[Our founding father's struggled with this text and decided that if the
higher power was "just" in their restrictions then they should be
obeyed. But
our founding father's could not find the English restrictions of the
time
"just".]
Teresita:
No doubt they applied the Protestant principle of "private
interpretation" to King George's laws.
But I find no scriptural precedent for such rebellion.
Rather, the bible teaches that the whole sad history of mankind began
with rebellion and is replete with the consequences of continuing
rebellion.
I for one wish to follow Christ's example of perfect obedience to the
Father
and the human institutions which derive their authority from Him,
without
stopping to consider if their commands are "just."
[That would be handy, wouldn't it? All of us identical, all marching
lockstepunder the authority of an earthbound institution rather than of
God.
What a dandy world that would be.]
Teresita:
I see that my appeals to St. Paul in the book of Romans were
insufficient.Perhaps St. Peter can weigh in here: "Be subject to every
human
institution for the Lord's sake, whether it be to the king as supreme or
the governors
as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the approval of those
who do
good."
(1 Peter 2:13)
[Light the fires, guys and herd the Protestants back into the fold.
Might as well. God's gonna do it anyway when we die if we don't belong
to the
right church, huh? The entire concept of the eternal human weenie roast
idea
is a great way to spark fear and keep the troops in line. Now who could
have
thought up that one? I wonder?]
Teresita:
Jesus Christ.
"Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the
devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)
[What do you suppose that you will do with us rebels.]
It is enough that you are taught from scriptures that all rebellion is
ungodly,and perhaps the Spirit of Truth will convict your heart.
[In the pope's "dies domini" he request the loyal catholic to "strive to
ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep sunday holy]
Teresita:
Surely the SDA strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their
duty to keep Saturday holy. The political action in and of itself
cannot be the
issue here.
[You may place your loyalty to a man and his system and accuse us of
rebellion,but you will find strong opposition if you expect us to bow in
obedience
to anything but God's word.]
Teresita:
Yet we have already seen the nature of this "strong opposition" by a
moral assent to the Declaration of Independence and the Founding
Father's tax
revolt against the King; their failure to "render unto Caesar", as it
were,
despite the aforementioned teachings on Christian citizenship in Romans
and 1 Peter.
If Christians bow in obedience to a human tradition such as patriotism
out
of peer pressure, how much more so will they bow to a Sunday Law out of
a desire
to maintain the status quo and to not be a boat rocker???
Continuing on another thread:
Fom 1998
Subject: Re: Teresita and the Burning of Heretics
Teresita:
> This Jarrod Williamson guy has been following me to other
> newsgroups in an effort to shut me down and has very
> repetitively and tediously posting copies of my answer to
> his question (which is virtually straight out of Radio Replies
> Vol. 3, para 1011, BTW, except for the "good old days"
> part).
Doug:
The bottom line?
Teresita opposes the death penalty for criminals such as murderers and
approves the death penalty for Protestants.
Teresita:
St. Thomas Aquinas argued that he who destroys the faith of another robs
him,
not of his temporal life, but of his eternal life, which is far worse.
The state
therefore would be justified in putting such a man to death, removing
him
permanently from among men to whom he can do so much damage. St. Thomas
concluded that such a penalty would not be excessive.
Doug:
This is rough for me, Teresita. As a modified
Reconstructionist-Theonomist,
I'm personally in favor of the death penalty for heretics, as it is a
crime
under the Old Testament Laws. However, if the real 100% rabid
Reconstructionists actually got in power, as a rabid anti-Calvinist, I'd
be
likely to be one of the ones put to death.
Doug:
>The Purpose of the inquisitors was to kill those who
>disagreed with official church dogma.
Teresita:
THE PURPOSE OF THE INQUISITION was then and IS TODAY to investigate
persons
charged with propagating false doctrines. The purpose of the civil
authorities
was then and IS NOW to maintain law and order.
While today is a period of relative religious plurality due to the
sinful
division and subdivision of Christians contrary ro Christ's prayer in
John 17,
in the past there was nought but the One Catholic Church, and God
willing, in
the future there will be NOUGHT BUT ONE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Doug:
>Kind of like the "trial" of Jesus? First the religious authorities
tried Him
>and then they delivered Him over to the state for the state to execute
Him?
>The state could care less about the "crime" in most cases.
Teresita:
I suppose, Doug, if you repeat it often enough that I approve of the
killing of
innocents you think people will begin to believe it from the sheer
repetition.
Teresita aug 31, 1998
> I don't know what I'm supposed to "repent" for:
Doug:
Defending the murder of innocent men, women and children comes to mind.
Teresita:
> Holding my views about Church history, or for revealing
> my beliefs about Church history when asked a direct
> question by a fundieprot
Doug:
fundieprot? Is that some sort of a Catholic slur?
Teresita:
> whose only purpose was to trap me on the two prongs of
> a dilemma.
Doug:
Ah. And trapped you are.
Jarrod: You are supposed to repent of the following rotten statement
and sentiment:
Subject: Re: Catholic Statement on the Biblical Sabbath
Date: 21 Aug 1998 17:00:29 -0700
From: Teresita Mercado
Organization: http://pubnews.zippo.com
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.adventist
> Teresita:
>
> How do you feel about the burning of heretics?
>
>jarrod
IT WAS NECESSARY to compel individuals to keep their private opinions to
themselves, and to cease public propagation of their errors. In the
good old days
both Church and State cooperated to prevent such men from corrupting the
faith of
others and from subversive activities against the legitimately
established order.
Teresita
Doug:
>Yes, but you are intolerant of Teresita's "religion" which apparently
allows
>her to justify the murder of innocent men, women and children just
because
>they do things like worship on Saturday, or don't have their infants
>baptized, right?
Teresita on Aug 31, 1998
Well, Doug, if I said something stupid like that then I would be worthy
of
censure. Where did I say I approved of the murder of innocents? I
thought your
thinking was too precise to allow this kind of mission creep to occur in
a
debate.
Doug:
>Has Teresita repented of her blood thirst for Protestants yet? Perhaps
it's
>not time to forgive, just yet?
Teresita on Aug 31, 1998
What blood thirst? I merely described the necessity of the Church and
State, in
the middle ages, to protect the faithful from disruptive teachers of
false
doctrine.
Teresita on Sept 1, 1998
For not answering "I think the burning of heretics was a prime example
of
Catholic error" I will never apologize.
Tammy on Sept 4, 1998:
Teresita was wrong/foolish to make such an inflammatory, anti-prot
comment
and then act horrified at the reaction to it and goes running to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic and whine about "poor little me,
Jarrod is stalking me". I mean making a comment that in any justifies
the
murder of prots simply for their religious belief in a prot newsgroup! I
can't believe you are suprised that they don't like you very much. Give
me a
break!
Teresita:
>I've always liked you before Tammy, but you are mistaken that I
justified the
>murder of prots simply for their religious belief. If you read my
posts
>carefully, you will realize that I only justified punishment against
those who
>tried to destroy the faith of others by propagating their divisive
errors.
Tammy:
Which isn't any different, my friend. Prots have just as much to
evangelise
as Catholics. To kill them for doing so is killing them for practicing
their
religion.
========================
AND THE FOLLOWING IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT TERESITA IS ACTUALLY JUSTIFYING
AND SUPPORTING, BUT FACED WITH HOW VERY EVIL THE REALITY IS, SHE CAN
ONLY REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, AND USE PROFANITY TO SAY SHE WILL NOT
ANSWER OF ADDRESS IT.
Subject: Re: ADVENTISTS BELIEVE THERE IS NO HEAVEN
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.religion.christian.adventist,a
lt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christ
ian.pentecostal
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 2:50 PM
From: "Truth"
: "Teresita" <tere...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
: news:bne2i...@drn.newsguy.com...
: > In article <isvkpv4jefdn40j43...@4ax.com>, Susan
: Williams says...
: >
: > >Teresita ignores him, William Suzanne ignores him even though Shan
: > >claims to represent Rome! All this is nothing knew with the
servants
: > >of the Antichrist who lie to us telling us the Jesuit Oath they
keep
: > >is false. They have not to this day condemned a single specific
line
: > >for hate of that Oath!
: >
: > I have not condemned a single specific line for hate of the Black
: Numenorean
: > Vengeance Pact either. Both have equal non-existence.
:
: You have not condemned the crimes of the Ustasha either, who as shown
: below, obeyed it perfectly:
:
:
:
: "..I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or
will
: of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or
: cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and
: every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of
the
: Pope and of Jesus Christ.
: That I may go to any part of the world withersoever I may be sent, to
: the frozen regions of the North, the burning sands of the desert of
: Africa, or the jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of
: Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America,
: without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things
: whatsoever communicated to me.I furthermore promise and declare
: that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war,
: secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals,
: as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the
face
: of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or
condition;
: and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle,and bury alive these
: infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women
: and crush their infants' heads against the walls,
: in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the
same
: cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the
: strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet,
: regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or
: persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or
: private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the
: Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society
of
: Jesus..." - Jesuit oath
:
:
: KEPT:
: <quote>
: "The crimes of the Ustasha documented by the Zagreb indictment
included
: the murder of hundreds of specifically named Serbs, Gypsies, and Jews;
: the creation of the Jasenovac concentration camp, where hundreds of
: thousands of individuals were killed; and the following specific cases
: of barbarism:
:
: 1. tying families by their hands with wire, forcing them into a pit,
and
: cracking their skulls with sledgehammers;
: 2. operating a crematorium at Jasenovac into which persons were flung
: alive;
: 3. herding Serbs into their Orthodox churches ... and then butchering
: them with knives;
: 4. medical experiments into the perseverance of human organisms;
: 5. slitting open the bellies of pregnant women;
: 6. drinking blood from the slashed throats of the victims;
: 7. inducing cannibalism among camp inmates;
: 8. mutilation of the living and the dead;
: 9. raping schoolgirls before their mothers;
: 10. catching infants on bayonets;
: 11. inventing new methods of torture;
: 12. throwing burning lime on the living in execution pits;
: 13. feeding food laced with caustic soda to starving children..."
:
: <end quote>
:
: You can read about all this in detail here:
: http://www.pavelicpapers.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi
:
: Here is one story about these innocents:
:
: <begin quote>
: Children were not spared, and special concentration camps were set up
: for them. Nine of these were at Lobor; Jablanac, near Jasenovac;
Mlaka;
: Brocice; IJstici; Stara Gradiska; Sisak; Jastrebarsko; and Ciornja
: Rijeka. The destruction of infants in these places would be
incredible,
: were it not vouched for by eyewitnesses, one of whom has testified:
:
: "At that time fresh women and children came daily to the Camp at Stara
: Gradiska. About fourteen days later, Vrban [Commandant of the Camp]
: ordered all children to be separated from their mothers and put in one
: room. Ten of us were told to carry them there in blankets. The
children
: crawled about the room, and one child put an arm and leg through the
: doorway, so that the door could not be closed. Vrban shouted: 'Push
it!'
: When I did not do that, he banged the door and crushed the child's
leg.
: Then he took the child by its whole leg, and banged it on the wall
till
: it was dead. After that we continued carrying the children in. When
the
: room was full, Vrban brought poison gas and killed them all." .
: Statement made by witness Cijordana Friedlender, from the shorthand
: notes of the Ljubo Milos case, pp. 292-3
: <end quote>
:
: The above is from the book "The Vatican's Holocaust" by Avro Manhattan
: the book can be read online here:
: http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html
:
: Here is why they did it:
: http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/gallery.html
:
: Worldmark Encyclopedia of the Nations, Europe, edition 1995, page 91,
: entry: Croatia
: Quote:
: Slavko Kvaternik [the second in command to the Croatian WWII fuehrer,
: Dr Ante Pavelic] explained [on the day of formation of the WWII
: "Independent State of Croatia", on April 10, 1941] HOW PURE CROATIA
: SHOULD BE BUILT - by forcing one third of the Serbs to leave Croatia,
: one third to convert to Catholicism, and one third to be EXTERMINATED.
: Soon Ustasha bands initiated a BLOODY ORGY of mass murder of Serbs
: unfortunate enough not to have converted or left Croatia on time. THE
: ENORMITY OF SUCH CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR SHOCKED EVEN
: THE CONSCIENCE OF GERMAN COMMANDERS...
: (End quote)
:
: http://www.emperors-clothes.com/docs/backin.htm
:
: [Start Quote] "The greatest ethnic slaughter took place as Yugoslavia
: was carved up after the German invasion in April 1941. The creation of
: a separate Croatia ... controlled by the fascist, Catholic, extremist
: Ustasha movement was the catalyst for the tragedy... Now, historic
: Croatia was expanded to include Bosnia-Herzegovina and other
: territories, and the Ustasha were left ... to govern a population of
: nearly 7 million people, of whom about half were Croats, just over 2
: million were Serbs, about 750,000 were Muslims, and small numbers were
: Protestants and Jews.... The Minister of Education, Mile Budak, made
: clear the Ustasha aims: 'Our new Croatia will get rid of all Serbs in
: our midst in order to become one hundred percent Catholic within ten
: years.' [End quote]
: Professor Clive Ponting, "Armageddon," Random House, Inc., New York,
: 1995, pages 231-232.
:
: Teresita:
:
: "THE PURPOSE OF THE INQUISITION was then and IS TODAY to investigate
: persons charged with propagating false doctrines. The purpose of the
: civil authorities was then and is now to maintain law and order.
:
: While today is a period of relative religious plurality due to the
: sinfuldivision and subdivision of Christians contrary ro Christ's
prayer
: inJohn 17,
: IN THE PAST THERE WAS NOT BUT ONE CATHOLIC CHURCH,
: AND GOD WILLING IN THE FUTURE
: THERE WILL BE ONE CATHOLIC CHUCH."
:
: Teresita:
: No doubt they applied the Protestant principle of "private
: interpretation" to King George's laws. But I find no scriptural
: precedent for such rebellion.
: Rather, the bible teaches that the whole sad history of mankind began
: with rebellion and is replete with the consequences of continuing
: rebellion.
: I for one wish to follow Christ's example of perfect obedience to the
: Father
: and the human institutions which derive their authority from Him,
: WITHOUT STOPPING TO CONSIDER IF THEIR COMMANDS ARE "JUST"
:
:
: ~Cindy
:
>"Teresita" <tere...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>news:bne2i...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> I have not condemned a single specific line for hate of the Black
>> Numenorean Vengeance Pact either. Both have equal non-existence.
>
>You have not condemned the crimes of the Ustasha either
The following topics will merit no furthter reply from me:
1. Jesuit Oath
2. Ustasha, Utaschis, whatever the fuck.
Truth
"Alan M" writes in message
>
> "Truth" wrote in message
>
> >
> > "Joseph Geloso" wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> > > others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> > > heretics, what is wrong with that?
> > >
> > > First we have the notion condemned as error:
> > >
> > > http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
<snip>
Alan,
People do not suddenly become trolls just because they say things that
are
shocking or obscene. Romes mandates are shocking and obscene, many
Catholics, or even those who think themselves protestant, do not realize
this, when faced with it, they have two choices, leave and condemn Rome,
or support and defend her.
The Poster is Catholic, and I can remember him posting on the NG's for
at least a couple of years, always in support of Catholic doctrines and
mandates, which is exactly what he is doing here. It is no different
than Teresita, or Ted Seeber, they were not speaking independantly they
are voicing the actual unchanging beliefs of Rome. Her proudest boast is
that she does not change.
It is difficult when confronted with it,to believe that people can think
like this. But if it was justified according to them then, is it still
not justified if circumstances warrant it? Did not Dr Carroll the
moderator in the thread I posted from the Catholic EWTN forum say just
that?
People get so caught up on individuals, they forget the masses and
multitudes that always go along with every tyrant and murderer. That
mindset has always been here in this world, since the fall,
The scriptures tell us Satan is the Father of liars and murderers, and
is the one actually leading the majority.
In the end there are only two groups. The Creator's people
who follow his law which defines his character, and those who follow the
god
of this world and the system which he works through. Revelation tells us
that all the world, except those written in the Lamb's book of life will
join together, and follow Rome, and there will be a time of trouble such
as never was since there was a nation, and God's people will be killed
again. Immediatly before Jesus returns.
What happened to the thinking that caused the masses to come and watch
Christians thrown to the lions
in ancient Rome and consider it entertainment?
What happened to the thinking of all those who went along with Rome and
condoned the inquisitions, and turned out to watch the "heretics" be
tortured, and
killed?
The thinking of those who massacred Protestantism on the night of St.
Bartholomew, 1512, and then partied in their joy afterwords?
What happened to the thinking of the masses during Frances reign of
terror, when the streets ran with blood?
The thinking of all those who went along with and supported the killings
in Nazi Germany? Did that thinking go away when only those in charge
were tried for being murderers, or because it is a new era?
No that thinking has not gone away, it merely is in check until the
opportunity arises again.
Time and time again you see the same spirit ruling the masses has been
revealed in the history of this world.
And time and time again, those who first notice something is wrong and
try to point it out, are opposed.
Didn't that happen in Germany, not so very long ago???
> I don't go for the Dark Ages stuff
> myself.
>
> There is a possibility that this person was serious and that other
people
> really think along these lines. Such people are indeed killers, at
least in
> their own minds. They've crossed the boundary, as all tyrants have
done, to
> justify killing in the name of their "cause".
>
>
~ Cindy
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save;
neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God,
and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
Isa 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with
iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered
perverseness.
Isa 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor [any] pleadeth for truth: they
trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth
iniquity.
Isa 59:5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he
that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out
into a viper.
Isa 59:6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover
themselves with their works: their works [are] works of iniquity, and
the act of violence [is] in their hands.
Isa 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent
blood: their thoughts [are] thoughts of iniquity; wasting and
destruction [are] in their paths.
Isa 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and [there is] no judgment in
their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein
shall not know peace.
Isa 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice
overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness,
[but] we walk in darkness.
Isa 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if [we
had] no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; [we are] in
desolate places as dead [men].
Isa 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for
judgment, but [there is] none; for salvation, [but] it is far off from
us.
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our
sins testify against us: for our transgressions [are] with us; and [as
for] our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing
away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and
uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth
afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he [that] departeth from evil maketh
himself a prey: and the LORD saw [it], and it displeased him that [there
was] no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that [there was] no man, and wondered that [there
was] no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and
his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of
salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance [for]
clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
Isa 59:18 According to [their] deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to
his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay
recompence.
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his
glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a
flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn
from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Isa 59:21 As for me, this [is] my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My
spirit that [is] upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor
out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and
for ever.
Truth
Was Hitler a ruler in the likeness of Christ?
Is Saddam Hussein in the likeness of Christ?
I find it strange how people use this verse to justify their beliefs and
ideas of who should rule, according to their interpretation of God's
laws and words, and yet cannot see how their arguments are no different
then the Vatican's.
Jesus said Obey God first, and the laws of the land you live in, unless
they would cause you to disobey God. That is what Jesus did. This is
also what the apostles did and taught.
God's Church has not been a political power or state, since the days of
Moses, nor did Jesus come and teach this, or include this in the new
covenant. (Christians are in every country and government, all over the
world.) Every condition of the new covenant was given before Jesus'
death, even the Lord's supper, which is a memorial of his death, had to
be given before the event it is a memorial of,(the only example you will
ever find of such, in the history of the world) because NOTHING could
be changed after the new covenant was sealed by his death and his blood.
Hebrews 9
~ Cindy
Truth
<snipped but read>
>
> I have a little paper on this subject too. A rag call the Dec. of
> Independance............such a hatefull thing to do - to revolt!! Damn
> all Americans for breaking from the Crown!
Rome has always been against the principles this country was founded on,
and only endures it till She can change it:
"[It is error to believe that] The Church ought to be separated from the
State, and the State from the Church." Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of
Errors), Issued in 1864, Section VI, Errors About Civil Society,
Considered Both in Itself and in its Relation to the Church, #55.
"[It is error to believe that] Kings and princes are not only exempt
from the jurisdiction of the Church, but are superior to the Church in
deciding questions of jurisdiction." Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of
Errors), Issued in 1864, Section VI, Errors About Civil Society,
Considered Both in Itself and in its Relation to the Church, #54.
"[It is error to believe that] In the case of conflicting laws enacted
by the two powers (Church and civil), the civil law prevails." Pope Pius
IX, The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section VI, Errors About
Civil Society, Considered Both in Itself and in its Relation to the
Church, # 42.
"Democracy is a michievous dream where the Catholic Church does not
predominate." -Brownson's Review.
"There is one, and only one, sure democracy, the Catholicism of the
Popes" -The Catholic World, Oct, 1937.
"Some dwell on the vastly increased tolerance shown in this country now
to Catholics and Catholic thugs... It betokens a decay of
Protestantism." -Catholic World, Oct. 1935, p.66
The old Protestant culture is about at the end of its rope... Why can't
we make the U.S. Catholic in legislation, Catholic in justice, aims and
ideals?" -Father F. X. Talbot, editor of America, official jesuit
magazine for the U.S. statement in New York Globe Dec. 14, 1930
"Religious liberty is merely endured until the opposite can be carried
into effect without peril to the Catholic Church." -Bishop O'Conner of
Pittsburg.
"If Catholics ever gain sufficient numerical majority in this country,
religious freedom is at an end. So our enemies say; so we believe" -The
Shephard of the Valley, journal of the late bishop of St. Louis.
In the book Confusion Twice Confounded, Monsignor Joseph H. Brady states
that the U.S. Supreme Court is wrong in decisions regarding "seperation
of Church and State." He says: "A sound view of the Constitution in its
relation to religion probably awaits a change in personnel in our
highest tribunal." -The Register, Jan. 23, 1955.
"But Constitutions can be changed, and non-Catholic sects may decline to
such a point that the political proscription [ban] of them may become
feasible and expedient. What protection would they have against a
Catholic state?" -The State and the Church, pp.38,39, by Miller and
Ryan, imprimatur of Cardinal Hayes.
"The Catholic Church in this nation must live on to accomplish her work,
even though our Republican form of government disappears." -The Catholic
World, April, 1935, p.12. "
They [Catholics] must penetrate wherever possible in the administration
of civil affairs... all Catholics should do all in their power to cause
the constitution of states, and legislation to be modeled on the
principles of the true Church." -Encyclical of Leo XIII.
"It is error to believe that Every man is free to embrace and profess
that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider
true." Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section
III, Indifferentism, Latitudinarianism, #15.
"It is error to believe that hence it has been wisely decided by law,
in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall
enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship." Pope Pius IX,
The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section X, Errors Having
Reference to Modern Liberalism, #78.
"It is error to believe that Moreover, it is false that the civil
liberty of every form of worship, and the full power, given to all, of
overtly and publicly manifesting any opinions whatsoever and thoughts,
conduce more easily to corrupt the morals and minds of the people, and
to propagate the pest of indifferentism." Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of
Errors), Issued in 1864, Section X, Errors Having Reference to Modern
LiberalismI, #79.
"This shameful font of indifferentism gives rise to that absurd and
erroneous proposition which claims that liberty of conscience must be
maintained for everyone. It spreads ruin in sacred and civil affairs,
though some repeat over and over again with the greatest impudence that
some advantage accrues to religion from it....a pestilence more deadly
to the state than any other. Experience shows, even from earliest times,
that cities renowned for wealth, dominion, and glory perished as a
result of this single evil, namely immoderate freedom of opinion,
license of free speech, and desire for novelty.
Here We must include that harmful and never sufficiently
denounced freedom to publish any writings whatever and disseminate them
to the people, which some dare to demand and promote with so great a
clamor. We are horrified to see what monstrous doctrines and prodigious
errors are disseminated far and wide in countless books, pamphlets, and
other writings which, though small in weight, are very great in malice."
Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos (On Liberalism and Religious
Indifferentism), Encyclical promulgated on August 15, 1832, #14 & 15.
Under the influence of Germanic customs and concepts, torture was little
used from the 9th to the 12th centuries, but with the revival of Roman
law the practice was reestablished in the 12th century... In 1252 (Pope)
Innocent IV sanctioned the infliction of torture by the civil
authorities upon heretics, and torture came to have a recognized place
in the procedure of the inquisitional courts. -New Catholic
Encyclopedia, arts. "Inquisition", "Auto-da-Fe'," and "Massacre of St
Bartholomew's Day."
"You ask if he (the Roman Catholic) were lord in the land, and you were
in a minority, if not in numbers yet in power, what would he do to you?
That, we say, would entirely depend upon circumstances. If it would
benefit the cause of Catholicism, he would tolerate you: If expedient,
he would imprison you, banish you, fine you; possibly, he might even
hang you. But be assured of one thing: He would never tolerate you for
the sake of 'the glorious principles of civil and religious liberty' . .
. Catholicism is the most intolerant of creeds. It is intolerance
itself, for it is truth itself."--"Civil and Religious Liberty," in The
Rambler, 8, Sept, 1851, pp. 174, 178. ["The Rambler" was an English
Roman Catholic journal published from 1848 to 1862].
"Experience teaches that there is no other remedy for the evil, but to
put heretics (Protestants) to death; for the (Romish) church proceeded
gradually and tried every remedy: at first she merely excommunicatied
them; afterwards she added a fine; then she banished them; and finally
she was constrained to put them to death." -Cardinal Bellarmine famous
champion of Romanism cited by Schumucker p. 76
" 'The church,' says [Martin] Luther, 'has never burned a heretic.' . .
I reply that this argument proves not the opinion, but the ignorance or
impudence of Luther. Since almost infinite numbers were either burned or
otherwise killed, Luther either did not know it, and was therefore
ignorant, or if he was not ignorant, he is convicted of impudence and
falsehood,--for that heretics were often burned by theCatholic Church
may be proved from many examples."--Robert Bellarmine, Disputationes de
Controversiis, Tom. II, Lib. III, cap. XXII, 1628 edition [Bellarmine is
one of the most respected Jesuit teachers in the history of the
Gregorian University in Rome, the largest Jesuit training school in the
world].
Mr. Raywood Frazier, in the booklet "Catholic Words and Actions,"
presents documentary proof of the intensive persecution of Protestants
and non-Catholics in Columbia, South America, between 1949 and 1953. The
Catholic Church had the support of the Columbian government in the
destruction of many churches, and the liquidation of more than 1,000
documented cases -- some of whom were shot, drowned, or emasculated. He
says there is evidence of over 60,000 killed. Pope Pius XII awarded the
President of Columbia with one of the highest awards which the Church
bestows, and praised Columbia for its example of the Catholic faith."
(Pp. 59,60)
The defense of Roman Catholics to this presentation is as follows:
"Communists destroy churches because they are God's enemies; Catholic's
destroy churches because they are God's friends... Against such
men-founded churches... Catholics in Latin America should arise and wipe
them out with fire." -John J. Oberlander, in The Voice of Freedom, 1954,
p. 20.
The rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris, H.M.A. Baudrillart,
revealed the attitude of the church and her leaders toward persecution.
"When confronted with heresy," he said, "she does not content herself
with persuasion, arguments of an intellectual and moral order appear to
her insufficient, and she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment,
to torture." The Catholic Church, The Renassance, and Protestantism, pp.
182-183
"It no longer can be said today that the U.S. is a Protestant
country." -Cardinal Strich of Chicago, quoted in Time Magazine, Aug. 5,
1955 "
In the fourth and fifth centuries, Sunday shows and Sunday theaters, it
was complained, hindered the "devotion of the faithful," because many of
the members attended them in preference to the church services. The
church, therefore, demanded that the state interfere, and promote Sunday
observance by law. "In this way, " Says Neander "the church received
help from the state for the furtherence of her ends." This union of
church and state served to establish the Papacy in power. A simular
course pursued now will produce the same results. -AUGUSTUS NEANDER,
General History of the Christian Religion and the Church, Torey
translation (3rd American ed.), vol. 2, pp. 300,301
"No person shall preach without the permission of his Superior. All
preachers shall explain the Gospel according to the Fathers. They shall
not explain futurity or the times of Antichrist!" -Pope Leo X, 1516
Cindy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If you read this, as I hope you
> > will, please read my account of what happened to Armando Valladares
in
> > Castro's Cuba, as unforgettably described in his great book AGAINST
> > ALL
> > HOPE. Anything is better than that! - Dr. Carroll
>
>
>
>
>
>
> yes, and read all those works by the anti-christ founding fathers who
> revolted against his royal magesty king George (no not the
> Chimp.......well the earlier one).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Shawn Madden
>
>
> a voice of inquisative inventiveness and introspection is
> arroused.......the dark is awakened and prepared for a defence of
murder.
>
>
>
>
>
> > it seems that you are using the communist movements in China as an
> > example of why the burning of heretics today would be justified.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr Death is silent.............mulling a defence against the light.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I find your response disturbing in the extreme. Folks can say what
> > they
>
>
>
> the independant thought is noted by Dr Death...........it must be
> destroyed!!!......for that way is heresy!
>
>
>
>
> > wish on EWTN's site about Catholic bashing by protestants but I have
> > yet
> > to read of a protestant justifying or calling for the burning of
> > Catholics.
>
>
>
> heretic!!...burn the heretic!!
>
>
>
>
> > In a recent post I tried to clarify my position on this issue.
>
>
> Dr Death is.................what do they
say?...............backpeddling.
>
>
>
> I
> > certainly do not advocate the restoration of the butning of
heretics,
>
>
>
>
>
> see above....................the Iblis worshiper lies again...
>
>
>
>
>
> > because in the present climate of opinion it would hurt the Church,
>
>
>
>
> ya think?????????//.......gee I don't know.............LOL
>
>
>
>
> > and
> > I do not think it should have been done in the past, because we
should
> > not deliberately inflict such great pain, nor deprive the heretic of
> > the
> > oppotunity to repent.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "deprive"...............oh the one in ten that were not offered the
> choice to burn or recant - I see.
>
>
> the other 90 percent are ok to burn.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> But I do understand why it was done in the past,
> > for the reasons that several posters have stated. Billy Graham would
> > have been seen as a heretic in the past, and he is in fact a heretic
> > now, though he does love Christ and has done much good. - Dr.
Carroll
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .................Graham loves Christ, yet is a Heretic and dammed to
> hell........where Dr Death is not?
>
>
> not a lover of Christ - thats for sure.
>
>
>
>
> > Gregory Dulmes
>
>
>
> Jr Taliban speaks in defence of Iblis and Dr Death........
>
>
>
>
> > Why are we always apologizing for the inquisitions? Why should
> > Catholics
> > feel bad that Exsurge Domine condemned Luther for the error stating
> > that
> > the burning of heretics was against the will of the Spirit? I tire
of
> > self-righteous critics denouncing the Church on this.
>
>
>
>
> HEAR HEAR!!!!!!!!!!! the sword and all that.........cheerio!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Let me attempt a
> > defence:
>
>
>
> of murder.......
>
>
>
> >
> > 1) Temporal rulers and states have the legitimate authority to
> > administer capital punishment.
>
>
>
>
> hmmmmmmmmmmmm if you say so..............just ignore inalienable
rights
> given each and every man by God.
>
>
> off to a good Reichbot stance. State above Man - check one.
>
>
>
>
> > 2) At the time of the inquisitions, the states involved were
> > explicitly,
> > formally, officially *Catholic* entities. Kings and emperors were
> > crowned in religious ceremonies. Because the Church rebuilt Europe,
> > these kingdoms derived their authority from the Church.
>
>
>
>
> same as above.............Reichbot. State over men. State over
> inalienable rights............so State over God.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > 3) A heretic was both a proliferator of doctrinal error *and a
social
> > revolutionary*. To be a heretic meant one was dedicated to
> > overthrowing
> > both the Church and the temporal order, i.e., fomenting revolution.
>
>
>
>
>
> yes........all american citizens are heretics via 1776. All REAL
> Catholics must renounce their Uniteed States citizenship and move to a
> State with the Roman Catholic religion as the State Religion (that
> leaves out Italy now, since the courts there have ruled that the State
> of Italy is NOT a Catholic State)
>
> All REAL Catholics could petition the Vatican for citizenship and
> residency though. Finding the room to fit their might be fun.
>
>
> good luck..........don't let the Revolution loving American heretic
door
> kick you on your way out Bubba.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > 4) The Church executed no one. The Church's main role was to
determine
> > if the accused was actually a heretic or not. He or she was then
> > turned
> > over to the state - sometimes. The state's official punishment for
> > heresy was usually a death sentence.
>
>
>
>
>
> well, since you stated above that the State is above God, then the
> Church indeed burned heretics.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hence, since a heretic was both a false teacher and a social
> > revolutionary, he threatened to unleash chaos in society.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> like the founding fathers............they must be burned!
>
>
>
>
> I have no
> > doubt that, given the rulers of the time (rulers *God* allowed to
be)
>
>
>
>
>
> and thus the Church burned the heretic via it instrument the
> State.........thus point #4 is revoked by the idiot who just proposed
it!
>
>
>
>
> > that the will of the Spirit was to give the heretic his just deserts
> > (i.e., *justice*), meaning death at the stake. This does not make
God
> > or
> > the Catholic Church cruel or sadistic.
>
>
>
>
> howls the bowels of Belial!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Any one who thinks this is
> > cruel
> > can simply review the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, when
heresy
> > triumphed. The tragedy in lives and souls lost speaks for itself.
>
>
>
>
> the Taliban wannabee pontificates.
>
>
>
>
> > Lastly, the inquisitions were not only not bad, but were good.
>
>
>
>
>
> dark is light, good is bad..............thus speaketh Satan's little
one.
>
>
>
> Why?
>
>
>
>
> ??? i'm sure you will enlighten us.
>
>
>
> > Because they were an advancement over the mob violence and vigilante
> > justice that proceeded them.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> yes, the Greeks were really unruly. all that democracy, so unordered.
> VEE MUST HAVE ORDER!! Zig HEiL!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Everything was usually by the book,
> > carried
> > out by the due 'controlling legal authorities'. If a man was
executed,
> > you can at least be sure that the accusations against him were true.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> yes. the offense is unimportant. jaywalkers challenge the State - they
> all must die!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Where am I wrong in this?
>
>
>
>
> right on mark as a deciple of Belial.
>
>
>
>
> > Answer by Matthew Bunson on 09-08-2002:
> > Thank you for your views. They are shared by a great many people who
> > object to the seemingly endless number of apologies demanded from
the
> > Church.
>
>
>
>
> yes another Taliban recruit.
>
>
>
>
> > Rev 17:3-6...I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full
of
> > names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman
was
> > arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and
precious
> > stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of
abominations
> > and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead [was] a
name
> > written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
> > ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the
blood of
> > the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I
saw
> > her, I wondered with great admiration.
> >
> > Rev 18
> > 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her,
my
> > people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive
not of
> > her plagues.
> > 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and
of
> > all that were slain upon the earth.
> >
> > ~ Cindy
> >
> >
>
>
> amen.
>
>
>
>
Susan Williams
wrote:
>
>"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
>news:bbba7302.0311...@posting.google.com...
>> Susan Williams <SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:<n1jkqvs85t99j5a13...@4ax.com>...
>> > Below is one of the posts written by super-terrorists who tell us it
>> > is legitimate to wipe out all non-Catholics. All this in the face of
>> > the fake Adventist cursing us because we expose people who condemn
>> > human life and then teaching us that we must not insult others.
>> > Christ came to save the lost Antichrist Andrew tells us. Here are the
>> > many posts of people telling us all non-Catholics must die. Why
>> > doesn't it bother him? Why not try asking him and watch him ignore
>> > all your questions?
>> >
>> > Are all these things stated by not-so-easily-duped true? If they are
>> > trained to tell lies, what portion of what they post should be
>> > considered true? They came in telling us about love. They told us we
>> > must not verbally attack anyone and posted in emotion about this.
>> > They constantly told us that, when we defeated them on doctrine, we
>> > hate them just because they disagree with us. They made it out how
>> > valuable it is to have the right to disagree. Here now they are
>> > telling us that any not of their religion legitimately must die.
>> >
>>
>> What is it Susan fussing about?
You mean I have been posting for months and months drawing all of the
scoundrels of the pope here crying foul and you don't know? You mean
we heard that it is nothing for people to die in the most hideous and
hateful ways while the performers of the killings yawn, and yet you
claim you don't know what I'm fussing about?
Intelligent discussion requires intelligent people. But there is the
other option also when the killers want to know what is going on that
is causing them to post so frequently as Andrew told us is a sign of
severe childhood trauma and a dysfunctional home!
But the papal killer who never posts proof adds to the personal
attack:
>That's a good question in theory. In practice I don't think anyone can
>answer it.
Is that why he posts so frequently against me?
>Susie certainly can't.
I post enough for everyone to know. Here is one complaint where Alan
cannot post proof for any of his accusations, attacks and preaching
against making accusations and attacking!
>Susie's "explanations" are just more of
>the same twaddle.
Twaddle is not what makes the servants of the Antichrist always rush
and bottleneck to deal with some emergency caused by my posts.
>To date, noone else has been able to explain Susie's fuss
>either.
Simple question then is to answer why twaddle and post which cannot be
understood causes the vultures to rush to the emergency and then
declare me a demon.
Explain to us Antichrist Alan what the following post which Teresita
claims to have "tortured" killers like herself means and how posts
which cannot be understood can torture killers like yourself:
===============
A man by the name of Ted Seeber condemned all non-Catholic life when
with approval he told us that:
"NONE of the groups persecuted by the Catholics were living the Bible.
They were living their personal interpretations of God, not the Bible"
You can find that statement here as I submit the evidence:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.religion.christian.adventist&scoring=r&as_drrb=b&as_mind=5&as_minm=10&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=7&as_maxm=10&as_maxy=2001&selm=55de15cf.0110071743.205a5dea%40posting.google.com
Brother Ted revealed that this was done just after the 911 attacks
when America was assessng what a terrorist was with respect to human
life.
Because of the revelation, Ted Seeber had to make an excuse and leave.
He left his website up, but his pictures and other things appeared to
have disappeared from it.
Soon, another killer super-terrorist became insensed at what was done
to Ted Seeber. He then moved out to attack me as I was showing how
Seeber confirmed THAT ROME HADN'T CHANGED. She still has
mass-exterminations as part of her agenda, practice and habits. To
accomplish this she has demons in human form trained to storm all free
media and teach people how they must understand that people will
disagree.
That killer refashioned his name after mine in the reverse and called
himself "William Suzanne." The man then entered with the boldest of
lies, much like John Ashcroft telling us the Patriot Act is
Constitutional!
He comes in telling us that SEEBER DOESN'T SPEAK FOR (or represent)
Rome in his condemnation of all non-Catholics.
I had to ask the super-terrorist more than once why then he wasn't
upset with Seeber for MISREPRESENTING Rome. As usual, the
super-terrorist then moved into an unbridled attack against the
Adventist Church LEAVING THE QUESTION COMPLETELY UNTOUCHED!!
Now some of you may well not be convinced that Ted Seeber condemned
all non-Catholics on the newsgroups. Actually, to this day, even
those on the newsgroups who formerly denied it had to confess that
Seeber did just that, and they went into every manner of defense for
Seeber. As we expose the dialogues, we will more prove this.
However, since we started this work, another person came out more
boldly and gave approval of the deaths of millions of Christians. She
posts under the name of Teresita. When I made mention of that great
Christian work Foxe's Book of Martyrs, detailing centuries of
uncountable murders of bible-believing Christians, she referred to the
work as:
"Foxe's Book of Hereticks." She therefore approved of their deaths
because they viewed religion differently:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=b0165u09im%40drn.newsguy.com
1/14/2003
Naturally, we got on her case for her boldness here as we still have
the liberty to do in this free country.
Teresita in response lied to us, telling us that when she called
Foxe's Book of Martyrs "Foxe's Book of Heretics," she was only
referring to the Albigenses of the Protestant Reformation 5/29/2003
who were a minority group of Christians during that time:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bb521t01pej%40drn.newsguy.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:thl3424526807d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Dbb521t01pej%2540drn.newsguy.com>
How do we know she was lying? The Albigenses were hardly mentioned in
that massive work. Protestants usually have little to say about the
Albigenses BECAUSE BOTH THEMSELVES AND ALL THEIR WORKS WERE COMPLETELY
ANNIHILATED BY ROME! But more proof that she was lying comes in her
next response as she worked to divert from my advancing questions:
Teresita belied her claim that she was only refering to the Albigenses
when she condemned the Christian martyrs as "hereticks" by condemning
Tyndale, who was not one of the Albigenses:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bcfbru0230p%40drn.newsguy.com>
NEXT:
When pressed further and further to reveal her beliefs she is trained
to hide on the matter of the value of human life, Teresita says the
Vatican merely carried out God's commands when they killed millions of
Christians because the Israelites did the same with their enemies.
Here she is freely admitting what all those "Anti-Catholics" and
"Catholic-haters" have been saying all along:
Here is that dialogue below:
From: Teresita (tere...@newsguy.com)
Subject: Re: Teresita responds inappropriatly
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.adventist,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, tnn.religion.catholic
Date: 2003-05-29 12:05:31 PST
In article <6s6bdv0l317i6dfjs...@4ax.com>, Susan says...
>
>Like Ted Seeber, you gave approval to their deaths and then come on the forums telling me I hate people just because they disagree.
>
>We are still under Homeland Security right through to the destruction of this nation. We are asked to report all terrorist activity found
>in people who have a profound disrespect of human life!
Teresita replies:
We merely carried out God's commandment in His Eternal Word:
Deuteronomy 17:2-5 "If there is found among you, within any of your
towns which the Lord your God gives you, a man or woman who does what
is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his
covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or
the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have
forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it; then you shall
inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an
abominable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring forth
to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you
shall stone that man or woman to death with stones."
ARE YOU LISTENING HOMELAND SECURITY??? She claims the scriptures
mandated their actions IN THE NEW TESTAMENT!! Is it the New Testament
now? Do those scriptures still exist now and have weight now IN THE
NEW TESTAMENT??
LASTLY AND MOST STRONGLY:
After telling us that just to expose these facts about Rome she is now
boldly admitting is hatred, what would happen if we took a look at
what ANTI-PROTESTANTISM always was throughout the ages? When we
brought this issue about hatred up for her condemning the lives of all
non-Catholics, this is how she declared Rome didn't hate her victims
she was killing:
I wrote:
In article <3dqrmvoit629haa6l...@4ax.com>, Susan
Williams says...
>But super-terrorists--I mean SUPER-TERRORISTS, we are waiting for
>evidence. We were not born to listen to the worst killers on the
>earth who tell us what we must do, but when we expose how they are
>they tell the world we hate Catholics. They can kill all
>non-Catholics they say, BUT THEY DON'T HATE THEM!
Teresita replies:
It's nothing personal. It's just business.
--
Encyclopedia Teresita
Now the man who was ready to pull out his hair telling us that Ted
Seeber didn't represent Rome when he condemned the lives of all
non-Catholics is nowhere to be found with Teresita boldly confirming
the same. Instead he attacks the Adventist Church as a dangerous
cult:
Super-terrorist William Suzanne:
>They very much want to be perceived as Evangelical Christians, seeking
>a place on the ministerial fellowships. All this is good PR for them,
>but what do they really believe?
Susan Williams:
True Adventist are not like that. The problem is that demon-possessed
killers from the Antichrist such as William Suzanne have infiltrated
our church to the CORE. That is why when Ted Seeber condemned all
non-Catholics to persecution and death, Paul Tooley came in to lie
claimng that he didn't do that, and then attacked me for exposing him.
They are trying to tell us that is standard behavior for Adventiss and
that I am not one.
Antichrist Andrew then attacked, claiming that by Brother Ted
frequently posting, he has childhood trauma and a dysfunctional home.
All of these said not the slightest word against the man who condemned
them to death.
COMPARE THE ISSUES THE SUPER-TERRORIST IS BRINGING AGAINST THE
ADVENTIST CHURCH WITH WHAT I'M SHIOWING YOU AND SEE WHAT YOU WOULD
PREFER IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!
William Suzanne:
>What facts won't they tell you?
Susan Williams:
Will Adventists tell you that you must protect a man who has condemned
the lives of all non-Catholics? Will they then tell you that a person
who exposes such a person is hateful and Satans child as William
Suzanne, Lamarr Edwards, "Adventist" Paul Tooley and "Adventist"
Andrew have done?
COMPARE THE ISSUES THE SUPER-TERRORIST IS BRINGING AGAINST THE
ADVENTIST CHURCH WITH WHAT I'M SHIOWING YOU AND SEE WHAT YOU WOULD
PREFER IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!
William Suzanne:
>They won't tell you that they consider themselves to be the only,
>true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they
>revere and believe without question has told them that
Susan Williams:
I would tell anyone that. But do you know folks that the major reasn
Rome has shed more blood than any institution on earth was because all
those centuries of the Christian era SHE HAS BEEN SAYING THAT SHE WAS
THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH?? Do you know that she recently published a
public document REAFFIRMING THIS??
Now the man is telling us the Adventist Church is trying to hide the
claim. Rome doesn't hide the claim. Would something smell bad if the
Evangelical community accepts Rome anyway even though her claims to be
the true church always invovles the shedding of much blood to those
who disagree?
Watch the demon work:
William Suzanne:
>"...Satan has taken full possession of the Churches". (Spiritual Gifts
>V.l,p.189-90) They also believe our prayers are an "abomination" to
>God. (Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190).
>That is what they think of you and your church, even if they won't say
>it out loud in public, or to your face.
>
Susan Williams:
Now listen to what the Protestants used to say BEFORE, so that we can
figure out if something has taken possession of them:
"But even with such a great cloud of witnesses, one might be tempted
to ask the following question, 'Has not Rome changed recently?' To
answer this most vital question, I turn once again to the message of
D. Martyn Lloyd Jones:
'Ah, but,' you say, 'has not the Roman Catholic Church changed? You
are simply looking back, you are speaking as if you lived in the 16th
century - don't you realize you are living in the 20th century?
My answer is quite simple. The proudest boast of the Roman Catholic
Church is this, that she never changes, Semper eadem. How can she
change? If she changes she will be admitting that she was wrong in the
past - but she was saying then that she was infallible, and that the
Pope is the Vicar of Christ and that he cannot make a mistake. If she
says that she is capable of change she is denying her central claim!
She does not say that she is changing, and she never will. The Church
of Rome remains the same.
If anything, she is even worse. She has 'added' things to what she
taught in the 16th century, such as Papal infallibility, etc. No,
there is no change in the Church of Rome. And if there ever is one
great world Church, it will be because the Church of Rome has absorbed
all the rest and swallowed them in ignorance!'
=============
William Suzanne:
>They revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, and made this
>statement in their "Ministry" Magazine of Oct. 1981 and have never
>retracted it:
Susan Williams:
What the super-terrorists won't tell you AND WHAT THEY HAVE NOT
RETRACTED! COMPARE THE "CRIMES!":
"If Catholics ever gain a sufficient numerical majority in this
country, religious freedom is at an end. So our enemies say, SO WE
BELIEVE" (The Shepherd of the Valley, official journal of the Bishop
of St Louis, Nov. 23, 1851).
William Suzanne claiming to quote Adventist sources:
>"We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen
>White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the
>Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the
>other".
Susan Williams:
"No man has a right to choose his religion." -- (New York Freeman,
official journal of Bishops Hughes, Jan. 26, 1852).
William Suzanne:
>They won't tell you too much about Ellen G. White at their public
>seminars, but their goal is to bring the person attending to the point
>of conversion and baptism.
>
>Their 2000 baptismal certificate poses questions to which the
>candidate must answer "yes". Question 8 says,
>
>"Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe
>that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the
>remnant church".
>
>If the candidate says "yes" and is baptized, they soon learn that the
>"gift of prophecy" is Ellen G. White's writings. Point 13 has them
>accepting that the SDA Church is the remnant church of Bible Prophecy.
>They have been baptized into an exclusive group, but they don't know
>how exclusive it is, yet!
Susan Williams:
"The church . . . does not, and cannot accept, or in any degree favor,
liberty in the Protestant sense of liberty." -- (Catholic World,
April, 1870.)
"Protestantism has not, and never can have, any right where
Catholicity has triumphed." -- (Catholic Review, June, 1875)
William Suzanne:
>No doubt they will be urged to avail themselves of a "Clear Word
>Bible". This publication of theirs has inserted the words and
>doctrines of Ellen G. White right into the Bible text, insuring that
>the person studying it will have the mind of Ellen G. White.
>
>Slowly, but surely, the new SDA will come to believe these
>extra-biblical doctrines that set the SDA church apart from
>Evangelical Christianity.
Susan Williams:
"Religious Liberty is merely endured UNTIL THE OPPOSITE CAN BE CARRIED
INTO EFFECT WITHOUT PERIL TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH." -- (Rt. Rev.
O'Connor, Bishop of Pittsburgh.)
"The absurd and erroneous doctrines or ravings in defense of liberty
of conscience are a most pestilential error--a pest, of all others,
most to be dreaded in a state." -- Encyclical Letter of Pope Pius IX,
August 15, 1854.
"There is, ere long, to be a state religion in this country, and that
state religion is to be the Roman Catholic. . . The Roman Catholic is
to wield his vote for the purpose of securing Catholic ascendancy in
this country." -- (Father Hecker, Catholic World, July, 1870.)
"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will
fall by the hands of the Catholic clergy." -- Lafayette
"You ask if the Pope were lord over this land and you were in a
minority, what he would do to you? That, we say, would entirely depend
on circumstances. If it would benefit the cause of Catholicism, he
would tolerate you: if expedient, he would imprison, banish you,
probably he might even hang you. But be assured of one thing, he would
never tolerate you for the sake of your glorious principles of Civil
and religious liberty." -- (Rambler, one of the most prominent
Catholic papers of England, Sept., 1851.)
WHICH WOULD YOU WANT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!
How about William Suzanne telling us that ELLEN WHITE, dead for almost
100 years, IS THE ANTICHRIST!! When Christ comes, He will smell like
a rose just ressurrecting Ellen White to punish her for destroying the
earth!!
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
Susan Williams
Not only that, here is part of what is lacking from the post of one of
the killers, Teresita, above: THE PROOF:
=============
NEXT:
LASTLY AND MOST STRONGLY:
non-Catholics, this is how she declared Rome didn't hate her victims
she was killing:
I wrote:
--
Encyclopedia Teresita
Super-terrorist William Suzanne:
Watch the demon work:
=============
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
Alberich
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic? I seriously doubt whether
anyone there wants to read your inane anti-Catholic rantings.
However, I can and will assure you that there is no global Catholic
conspiracy to wipe out all non-Catholics. If you persist in posting
this silly stuff, one may yet be formed.
Alberich
On 6 Nov 2003 14:30:19 GMT, Susan Williams
Alberich
link to it so that your mother can click it and be proud of
you--nobody else cares and you are using up bandwidth.
Alberich
On 8 Nov 2003 19:37:25 GMT, Susan Williams
gaffo
> The Poster is Catholic, and I can remember him posting on the NG's for
> at least a couple of years, always in support of Catholic doctrines and
> mandates, which is exactly what he is doing here.
yes Joe has been here as long as me ot longer........two/three yrs.
I'm an atheist, buthave allways valued Joes perspective. But not
anymore. this thread clearly shows he is not only a Coservative Catholic
- but a rabid hatemonger and killer of those he sees as not "Catholic".
I have nothing against Religion nor Catholics as long as they are not
rabid fanatics looking for a holy war and death of life and liberty for
all to follow their own path and providence.
From your posts, I get the feelign that you are one of the "former"
Catholics. I've never been a Catholic nor even a protestant (only in
name as a small child).
You seem to think that only Catholics can be Nazis - sadly I've seen
many conservative religious denominations such as the Pentacostals and
the Baptist trying to mandate a "greater collective" upon all of us -and
thus the enemies to inalienable rights of man and our Nation.
So - true - many Catholics tend to "follow the leader" and deny
individual liberty to "sin", but the Protestants are not different!!
There are those who value faith as personal and those who value death
and holy wars...................such character traits transend religions
and denominations.
my 2-cents.
peace.
gaffo
so you would replace the Vatican for a New Vatican - a Baptist or
Pentacostal/etc......... based one?
same result.
> I don't want to see the Vatican claiming monopole on Christ the
> Jews King and universal Savior.
and you would like another denomination to replace the mantle of
doctrine and power?
And my objections are grounded
> on this simple but powerfull verse: MESSIAH is a prophet like
> Moses. Since any ruler according to that verse is in the likeness
> of Christ/Messiah for sound Laws and sound public policies in a given
> kingdom, why do we need the Vatican for?
sound to me like you want to create an new vatican..............
no thanks.
Perfectly Innocent
> Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> heretics, what is wrong with that?
The biggest problem with that is that Seventh-day Adventists stand
condemned with the Jewish authorities that crucified Jesus and the
medieval Catholics who persecuted the Reformers. Are you so naive
as to believe that every Protestant condemned by a deceiving papal
system received a fair trial?
http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhdayAdventists/dupery.htm
I'd like to know why the historic Protestant belief that the papacy
is the antichrist merits the death penalty whereas a pope seducing
Christendom by sanctioning the sale of indulgences isn't even a sin.
http://www.everythingimportant.org/theReformation/
Eugene Shubert
gaffo
EXACTLY!......good to see others share my view.
> Jesus said Obey God first, and the laws of the land you live in, unless
> they would cause you to disobey God. That is what Jesus did. This is
> also what the apostles did and taught.
>
> God's Church has not been a political power or state, since the days of
> Moses, nor did Jesus come and teach this, or include this in the new
> covenant. (Christians are in every country and government, all over the
> world.) Every condition of the new covenant was given before Jesus'
> death, even the Lord's supper, which is a memorial of his death, had to
> be given before the event it is a memorial of,(the only example you will
> ever find of such, in the history of the world) because NOTHING could
> be changed after the new covenant was sealed by his death and his blood.
> Hebrews 9
>
> ~ Cindy
>
>
Amos was ahead of his time - his views in such things was very much Jesus'.
peace.
Susan Williams
wrote:
>Would you please stop posting this drivel on
>alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic? I seriously doubt whether
>anyone there wants to read your inane anti-Catholic rantings.
Would you please give up your thirst for the blood of those who differ
with you in religion?
Twas not your methods that even allowed technological advancement to
have you ranting as if you created it! Your methods stilted knowledge
and had brilliant scientists fleeing to where they can study without
being the victims of Anti-Homeland Security!
>However, I can and will assure you that there is no global Catholic
>conspiracy to wipe out all non-Catholics. If you persist in posting
>this silly stuff, one may yet be formed.
>
>Alberich
Why isn't there one. You came from a planet that does not prove
anything located in Italy!
Your friends condemned all non-Catholics to torture and persecution as
shown below. Why aren't you concerned????
Here is proof:
--------------------------------
NEXT:
LASTLY AND MOST STRONGLY:
non-Catholics, this is how she declared Rome didn't hate her victims
she was killing:
I wrote:
In article <3dqrmvoit629haa6l...@4ax.com>, Susan
Williams says...
>But super-terrorists--I mean SUPER-TERRORISTS, we are waiting for
>evidence. We were not born to listen to the worst killers on the
>earth who tell us what we must do, but when we expose how they are
>they tell the world we hate Catholics. They can kill all
>non-Catholics they say, BUT THEY DON'T HATE THEM!
Teresita replies:
It's nothing personal. It's just business.
--
Encyclopedia Teresita
Super-terrorist William Suzanne:
Watch the demon work:
=============
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
_______________________________________________________________________________
Susan Williams
wrote:
>Quit posting this same crap over and over and over!!! At least put a
>link to it so that your mother can click it and be proud of
>you--nobody else cares and you are using up bandwidth.
>
>Alberich
Sorry! How's this then O hateful one:
==========
NEXT:
LASTLY AND MOST STRONGLY:
--
Susan Williams
said that it would be the Protestants who will reach over to start a
union with Rome in violation of their most basic foundational
doctrines. But you must consider that Rome infiltrates. Take
Antichrist Andrew for instance. He claims with his lips that he is
Adventist. He has seen people condemn all non-Catholics to
extermination on the newsgroups. He only moved to attack those who
exposed them. I have asked him many times whether or not Adventists
do things like that and he knew better than to answer.
Here is his first and main attack against Brother Ted for exposing the
killers. In it are questions he has pretended were not there for
years!
==============
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=a3368n%245i3%241%40nntp9.atl.mindspring.net
Dear Ted,
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
The Jesuit infiltrator continues:
____________ James 3: 13-18_______________
Dear Antichrist Andrew,
____________ James 3: 13-18_______________
And don't forget!!!
In His Grace,
Susan
Susan Williams
false doctrines. HOW DO WE KNOW THAT DOCTRINES ARE FALSE? Jesus
showed us by asking His questions what the law says and He asked, "How
readest thou."
The problem is that, as shown in history, Rome has a bad habit of
doing anything possible to even prevent people from speaking for
obvious reasons. The Patriot Act by the Bush Administration is also
devastated with this Vatican disease where the government can now even
kill people without them knowing what they are being charged with.
Rome had much trouble when men like Luther were allowed to speak. In
such meetings men like Luther demonstrated where the real problem was,
and Rome therefore lost her power. Rome then said that if
Protestantism had a chance to take root, it would devastated the
world. Soon after America was born with Protestant principles and
then Rome came over to do certain things behind the scenes and cover
up the obvious results.
Think this is wrong? Think I am dishonest instead of they? How is it
they are justifying wiping out religions different than they when they
constantly accused us of being satanic FOR NOT ALLOWING OTHERS TO
DISAGREE WITH US? How is it they are still arguing for extermination
UNDER HOMELAND SECURITY??? 6,000 people died in 911. Under their
arguments, how many are potentially eligible for extermination?
COMPARE OSAMA BIN LADEN TO THESE!!
In His Grace,
Susan
Susan Williams
In His Grace,
Susan
Susan Williams
Innocent) wrote:
>Joseph Geloso <jose...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ucmfqv86hu3pe3p15...@4ax.com>...
>> Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
>> others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
>> heretics, what is wrong with that?
1. The first problem is the supposing. IT IS FACT THAT ROME USES THE
SWORD TO DESTROY THOSE WHO ARE NOT UNDER HER RULE!
2. Next IS HOMELAND SECURITY! Osama's acts or rules ARE NOT NEARLY AS
WHAT WE ARE VIEWING BEING POSTED HERE. Of the 6,000 that died durng
Homeland Security, how many were not Catholic?
3. THE VICTIMS ARE NOT YOU. THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION.
You all can claim that we are hateful though as you are trained to
push your characteristics upon us. Why have you all huffed for years
claming we were satanic for not allowing others to disagree when you
have for centuries and to this day practiced the worst type of
censorship in the extermination of all who do not believe as you?
There are more points, but you may as well start to answer from
question number one, unless Rome is the same as documented. If that
is the case, it is likely you will have to ignore these questions and
points also!
In His Grace,
Susan
>
>The biggest problem with that is that Seventh-day Adventists stand
>condemned with the Jewish authorities that crucified Jesus and the
>medieval Catholics who persecuted the Reformers. Are you so naive
>as to believe that every Protestant condemned by a deceiving papal
>system received a fair trial?
>
>http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhdayAdventists/dupery.htm
>
>I'd like to know why the historic Protestant belief that the papacy
>is the antichrist merits the death penalty whereas a pope seducing
>Christendom by sanctioning the sale of indulgences isn't even a sin.
>
>http://www.everythingimportant.org/theReformation/
>
>Eugene Shubert
Susan Williams
On 8 Nov 2003 13:48:00 -0800, perfectl...@as-if.com (Perfectly
Innocent) wrote:
>Joseph Geloso <jose...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ucmfqv86hu3pe3p15...@4ax.com>...
>> Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
>> others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
>> heretics, what is wrong with that?
1. The first problem is the supposing. IT IS FACT THAT ROME USES THE
SWORD TO DESTROY THOSE WHO ARE NOT UNDER HER RULE!
2. Next IS HOMELAND SECURITY! Osama's acts or rules ARE NOT NEARLY AS
WHAT WE ARE VIEWING BEING POSTED HERE. Of the 6,000 that died durng
Homeland Security, how many were not Catholic?
3. THE VICTIMS ARE NOT YOU. THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION.
You all can claim that we are hateful though as you are trained to
push your characteristics upon us. Why have you all huffed for years
claming we were satanic for not allowing others to disagree when you
have for centuries and to this day practiced the worst type of
censorship in the extermination of all who do not believe as you?
There are more points, but you may as well start to answer from
question number one, unless Rome is the same as documented. If that
is the case, it is likely you will have to ignore these questions and
points also!
In His Grace,
Susan
>
>The biggest problem with that is that Seventh-day Adventists stand
>condemned with the Jewish authorities that crucified Jesus and the
>medieval Catholics who persecuted the Reformers. Are you so naive
>as to believe that every Protestant condemned by a deceiving papal
>system received a fair trial?
>
>http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhdayAdventists/dupery.htm
>
>I'd like to know why the historic Protestant belief that the papacy
>is the antichrist merits the death penalty whereas a pope seducing
>Christendom by sanctioning the sale of indulgences isn't even a sin.
>
>http://www.everythingimportant.org/theReformation/
>
>Eugene Shubert
Teresita
>
>On 7 Nov 2003 12:30:40 -0800, Teresita <tere...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <bCJqb.605$aT....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Alan M says...
>>>
>>>
>>>"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
>>>news:bbba7302.0311...@posting.google.com...
>>
>>>> What is it Susan fussing about?
>>>
>>>That's a good question in theory. In practice I don't think anyone can
>>>answer it. Susie certainly can't. Susie's "explanations" are just more of
>>>the same twaddle. To date, noone else has been able to explain Susie's fuss
>>>either.
>>>
>>Now Opus Dei killers unleash Jesuit-trained Super-Terrorist Alan M to follow
>>in Ted Seeber and Andrews bloody footsteps! This super-criminal Alan M leads
>>ARCA to puzzle over explanations for sister Susan William's twaddle while
>>Vatican secret agents call for the torture and mutilation of all non-
>>Catholics!
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>In his grace,
>
Thanks, Susan/Ted, that made me laugh out loud.
Susan Williams
Well we want the whole world to laugh out loud about this which you
claim is torturing you even though you have oft acknowledged it is the
truth:
---------------------
Alberich
<SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 21:23:47 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Quit posting this same crap over and over and over!!! At least put a
>>link to it so that your mother can click it and be proud of
>>you--nobody else cares and you are using up bandwidth.
>>
>>Alberich
>
>Sorry! How's this then O hateful one:
Well, if you hadn't already posted it here, apparently without
purpose, in orders of magnitude that simply swallow bandwidth, I'd be
offended. As it is, I've seen this ho-hum drivel of yours enough only
to be mildly annoyed. Go annoy the Star Trek fans or something for
awhile, will you?
Alberich
Alberich
<SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 21:22:09 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Would you please stop posting this drivel on
>>alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic? I seriously doubt whether
>>anyone there wants to read your inane anti-Catholic rantings.
>
>Would you please give up your thirst for the blood of those who differ
>with you in religion?
I have no thirst for the blood of others in different religions. If
you knew anything about the Roman Catholic Church (save for the skewed
view you seem to get by posting the same two pieces of inane bovine
effluvia over and over), you would realize that your position is
untenable. Re-read the Vatican II documents (or what is more likely,
read them for the first time), concentrating on (1) the Declaration on
Religious Freedom and (2) the Declaration on the Relationship of the
Church to Non-Christian Religions. Perhaps actually reading documents
*by* the Church in lieu of whatever hate-filled tracts you have might
give you a better understanding of the Church.
>Twas not your methods that even allowed technological advancement to
>have you ranting as if you created it!
Forgive me...my background was in biology, not electrical engineering.
Thanks for pointing that out, though.
>>However, I can and will assure you that there is no global Catholic
>>conspiracy to wipe out all non-Catholics. If you persist in posting
>>this silly stuff, one may yet be formed.
>>
>>Alberich
>
>Why isn't there one. You came from a planet that does not prove
>anything located in Italy!
That makes no sense!
>Your friends condemned all non-Catholics to torture and persecution as
>shown below. Why aren't you concerned????
Because, (1) these aren't my "friends," and (2) I don't put much stock
in pamphlets designed to instigate hate, no matter where they come
from. I hope you should be so discerning, too.
Alberich
Susan Williams
wrote:
You are a liar and we proved the bandwidth issue. Many like you
posting merely that I am nonsense without proof, and the antichrist
psychiatrist just constantly posting that I need to seek mental help.
The bandwidth issue is merely another worse than a lie, worse than a
damn lie, it is a VATICAN lie!
Even you merely posted attacks without any education or proofl
In His Grace,
Susan
Susan Williams
wrote:
>On 9 Nov 2003 02:16:55 GMT, Susan Williams
><SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 21:22:09 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Would you please stop posting this drivel on
>>>alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic? I seriously doubt whether
>>>anyone there wants to read your inane anti-Catholic rantings.
>>
>>Would you please give up your thirst for the blood of those who differ
>>with you in religion?
>
>I have no thirst for the blood of others in different religions.
Yes, but would your cult please give up its thirst for blood?
>If
>you knew anything about the Roman Catholic Church (save for the skewed
>view you seem to get by posting the same two pieces of inane bovine
>effluvia over and over),
I would realize Protestant documentation tells me it isn't too
concerned to prove its claims, it still demands that all non-Catholics
be exterminated, it's followers are unscrupulous, and I would realize
that alll that has been proven just on the newsgroups ALONE!
> you would realize that your position is
>untenable.
Medical condition of Rome, NORMAL!
> Re-read the Vatican II documents (or what is more likely,
>read them for the first time),
Reread the posts here that condemned the lives of all non-Catholics.
Read Protestant documentation that shows Rome cannot be reasoned with
and then continue to fulfill that without your proofless rantings!
>concentrating on (1) the Declaration on
>Religious Freedom and (2) the Declaration on the Relationship of the
>Church to Non-Christian Religions. Perhaps actually reading documents
>*by* the Church in lieu of whatever hate-filled tracts you have might
>give you a better understanding of the Church.
ROME IS THE SAME. On the newsgrroups her adherents have condemned to
torture and death all non-Catholics. To cover up Satan's odor, they
tell us we are hateful for publishing exactly what Rome's posters have
confirmed here!
>>Twas not your methods that even allowed technological advancement to
>>have you ranting as if you created it!
>
>Forgive me...my background was in biology, not electrical engineering.
>Thanks for pointing that out, though.
GOOD... EVEN THAT WAS STILTED BY ROME!
>>>However, I can and will assure you that there is no global Catholic
>>>conspiracy to wipe out all non-Catholics. If you persist in posting
>>>this silly stuff, one may yet be formed.
>>>
>>>Alberich
>>
>>Why isn't there one. You came from a planet that does not prove
>>anything located in Italy!
>
>That makes no sense!
Neither does my posts in concern for the lives of all non-Catholics.
Neither do the scriptures that tell us what Christ will do to the
Antichrist.
>>Your friends condemned all non-Catholics to torture and persecution as
>>shown below. Why aren't you concerned????
>
>Because, (1) these aren't my "friends,"
More show it by distancing yourself from them. If they don't make
your church smell good, comment upon it instead of someone who is
exposing what they have done. You are lying again and again! If they
misrepresent your church, send these hateful posts to them. They
condemned all non-Catholics. Demonstrate some concern and not just
those who obey Homeland Security. YOU ARE ANOTHER LIAR FROM THE
ANTICHRIST!
>and (2) I don't put much stock
>in pamphlets designed to instigate hate, no matter where they come
>from. I hope you should be so discerning, too.
>
>Alberich
GOOD! Then if hate came from me, for some strange reason death
decrees did not spark your posts in protest! YOU ARE ANOTHER LIAR
FROM THE ANTICHRIST!!
In His Grace,
Susan
€ R.L. Measures
<SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 8 Nov 2003 13:48:00 -0800, perfectl...@as-if.com (Perfectly
> Innocent) wrote:
>
> >Joseph Geloso <jose...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<ucmfqv86hu3pe3p15...@4ax.com>...
> >> Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> >> others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> >> heretics, what is wrong with that?
>
> 1. The first problem is the supposing. IT IS FACT THAT ROME USES THE
> SWORD TO DESTROY THOSE WHO ARE NOT UNDER HER RULE!
>
*** During the Church of Rome's Fourth Crusade, Pope Innocent III ordered
the killing of All the residents of Beziers, France. When His Holiness
was informed that there thousands of good Catholics living in Beziers, he
said to kill everyone and let God sort out the good from the bad. 100,000
died during the 4th Crusade.
- "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction."
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
Truth
> Truth wrote:
>
>
> > The Poster is Catholic, and I can remember him posting on the NG's
for
> > at least a couple of years, always in support of Catholic doctrines
and
> > mandates, which is exactly what he is doing here.
>
>
> yes Joe has been here as long as me ot longer........two/three yrs.
>
> I'm an atheist, buthave allways valued Joes perspective. But not
> anymore. this thread clearly shows he is not only a Coservative
Catholic
> - but a rabid hatemonger and killer of those he sees as not
"Catholic".
>
>
> I have nothing against Religion nor Catholics as long as they are not
> rabid fanatics looking for a holy war and death of life and liberty
for
> all to follow their own path and providence.
It is a sad testimony that a professed Atheist, has a greater respect
of life and liberty, and more understanding of the inalienable right of
each to follow the dictates of his own conscience, than many who profess
to believe in, and follow the God who created those rights, and the
country which was founded to uphold the same.
>
> You seem to think that only Catholics can be Nazis
No, not really, nor do I believe that all Catholics are Nazi's. I do
believe the Catholic system is based on those same kind of principles
and mandates though.
- sadly I've seen
> many conservative religious denominations such as the Pentacostals and
> the Baptist trying to mandate a "greater collective" upon all of
us -and
> thus the enemies to inalienable rights of man and our Nation.
In Revelation, Rome is revealed as a Mother Church, with daughters.
Rome openly admits this as well, sadly those who demonstrate her same
attributes, even though calling themselves Protestant, only prove
themselves her daughters and their unity with her.
This is not the Creators way. True Christians are not like that.
>
>
> There are those who value faith as personal and those who value death
> and holy wars...................such character traits transend
religions
> and denominations.
Professing to know God , does not mean they know him..
Actions speak louder...
~ Cindy
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Alan M
"Truth" <privacy-is...@friends-already-know-it.com> wrote in message
news:2c08735abe4660d4...@news.teranews.com...
>
<snip>
> > Cindy,
> >
> > This "killer" is probably just a troll.
>
> Alan,
>
> People do not suddenly become trolls just because they say things that
> are
> shocking or obscene. Romes mandates are shocking and obscene, many
> Catholics, or even those who think themselves protestant, do not realize
> this, when faced with it, they have two choices, leave and condemn Rome,
> or support and defend her.
>
> The Poster is Catholic, and I can remember him posting on the NG's for
> at least a couple of years, always in support of Catholic doctrines and
> mandates, which is exactly what he is doing here.
I'll stand corrected here Cindy.
> It is no different
> than Teresita, or Ted Seeber, they were not speaking independantly they
> are voicing the actual unchanging beliefs of Rome. Her proudest boast is
> that she does not change.
Everyone changes to some extent. In any case, it doesn't mean that Teresita
is a killer.
>
> It is difficult when confronted with it,to believe that people can think
> like this.
You've got that right. I can only hope that such people are never in a
position to enact their beliefs.
>But if it was justified according to them then, is it still
> not justified if circumstances warrant it? Did not Dr Carroll the
> moderator in the thread I posted from the Catholic EWTN forum say just
> that?
>
> People get so caught up on individuals, they forget the masses and
> multitudes that always go along with every tyrant and murderer. That
> mindset has always been here in this world, since the fall,
> The scriptures tell us Satan is the Father of liars and murderers, and
> is the one actually leading the majority.
> In the end there are only two groups. The Creator's people
> who follow his law which defines his character, and those who follow the
> god
> of this world and the system which he works through. Revelation tells us
> that all the world, except those written in the Lamb's book of life will
> join together, and follow Rome, and there will be a time of trouble such
> as never was since there was a nation, and God's people will be killed
> again. Immediatly before Jesus returns.
>
> What happened to the thinking that caused the masses to come and watch
> Christians thrown to the lions
> in ancient Rome and consider it entertainment?
>
> What happened to the thinking of all those who went along with Rome and
> condoned the inquisitions, and turned out to watch the "heretics" be
> tortured, and
> killed?
>
> The thinking of those who massacred Protestantism on the night of St.
> Bartholomew, 1512, and then partied in their joy afterwords?
>
> What happened to the thinking of the masses during Frances reign of
> terror, when the streets ran with blood?
>
> The thinking of all those who went along with and supported the killings
> in Nazi Germany? Did that thinking go away when only those in charge
> were tried for being murderers, or because it is a new era?
>
> No that thinking has not gone away, it merely is in check until the
> opportunity arises again.
I'm afraid you'll be proven correct Cindy. To clarify, I have no problem
with you being correct. It's the implications that are the problem. There
are some examples of this thinking in the NG and plenty of examples in the
world at large. Everyone has the potential for evil and we must each
confront our own weaknesses and recognise how fine the line can be.
>
> Time and time again you see the same spirit ruling the masses has been
> revealed in the history of this world.
>
> And time and time again, those who first notice something is wrong and
> try to point it out, are opposed.
> Didn't that happen in Germany, not so very long ago???
>
Yep. It would be a hell of a thing to recognise your own country as a
tyranny. Few would have both the strength to do that and the judgement to be
right. People want to believe in their country and it's understandable how
they can be lead astray.
>
> > I don't go for the Dark Ages stuff
> > myself.
> >
> > There is a possibility that this person was serious and that other
> people
> > really think along these lines. Such people are indeed killers, at
> least in
> > their own minds. They've crossed the boundary, as all tyrants have
> done, to
> > justify killing in the name of their "cause".
> >
> >
> ~ Cindy
>
>
> Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save;
> neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
> Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God,
> and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
> Isa 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with
> iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered
> perverseness.
> Isa 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor [any] pleadeth for truth: they
> trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth
> iniquity.
> Isa 59:5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he
> that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out
> into a viper.
> Isa 59:6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover
> themselves with their works: their works [are] works of iniquity, and
> the act of violence [is] in their hands.
> Isa 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent
> blood: their thoughts [are] thoughts of iniquity; wasting and
> destruction [are] in their paths.
> Isa 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and [there is] no judgment in
> their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein
> shall not know peace.
> Isa 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice
> overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness,
> [but] we walk in darkness.
> Isa 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if [we
> had] no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; [we are] in
> desolate places as dead [men].
> Isa 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for
> judgment, but [there is] none; for salvation, [but] it is far off from
> us.
> Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our
> sins testify against us: for our transgressions [are] with us; and [as
> for] our iniquities, we know them;
> Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing
> away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and
> uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
> Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth
> afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
> Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he [that] departeth from evil maketh
> himself a prey: and the LORD saw [it], and it displeased him that [there
> was] no judgment.
> Isa 59:16 And he saw that [there was] no man, and wondered that [there
> was] no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and
> his righteousness, it sustained him.
> Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of
> salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance [for]
> clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
> Isa 59:18 According to [their] deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to
> his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay
> recompence.
> Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his
> glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a
> flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
> Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn
> from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
> Isa 59:21 As for me, this [is] my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My
> spirit that [is] upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
> shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor
> out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and
> for ever.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Alan M
You continue to prove my point Susie. This doesn't make any sense. Do you
deliberately post nonsense or is it a problem you have with the language ?
>
> >Susie's "explanations" are just more of
> >the same twaddle.
>
> Twaddle is not what makes the servants of the Antichrist always rush
> and bottleneck to deal with some emergency caused by my posts.
>
> >To date, noone else has been able to explain Susie's fuss
> >either.
>
> Simple question then is to answer why twaddle and post which cannot be
> understood causes the vultures to rush to the emergency and then
> declare me a demon.
>
> Explain to us Antichrist Alan what the following post which Teresita
> claims to have "tortured" killers like herself means and how posts
> which cannot be understood can torture killers like yourself:
I'd have more chance of flying to the moon than explaining anything you post
Susie.
Alberich
<SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 06:22:24 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 9 Nov 2003 02:17:36 GMT, Susan Williams
>><SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 21:23:47 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Quit posting this same crap over and over and over!!! At least put a
>>>>link to it so that your mother can click it and be proud of
>>>>you--nobody else cares and you are using up bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>>Alberich
>>>
>>>Sorry! How's this then O hateful one:
>>
>>Well, if you hadn't already posted it here, apparently without
>>purpose, in orders of magnitude that simply swallow bandwidth, I'd be
>>offended. As it is, I've seen this ho-hum drivel of yours enough only
>>to be mildly annoyed. Go annoy the Star Trek fans or something for
>>awhile, will you?
>>
>>Alberich
>
>
>You are a liar and we proved the bandwidth issue. Many like you
>posting merely that I am nonsense without proof, and the antichrist
>psychiatrist just constantly posting that I need to seek mental help.
>The bandwidth issue is merely another worse than a lie, worse than a
>damn lie, it is a VATICAN lie!
I may not have seen anything about the bandwidth earlier, but I
promise you that your posting this takes up more bandwidth--even if
only slightly less--than something much(!) shorter.
However, why do you think that people complain? Is it possible that
they might have a point?
>Even you merely posted attacks without any education or proofl
No attacks. I merely point out how I feel about it. And were there a
real Catholic plot to kill all non-Catholics, how can you possibly
explain the fact that you are still alive after repeatedly posting
such hate-filled malarkey?
Alberich
Joseph Geloso
<jose...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
>others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
>heretics, what is wrong with that?
>
Add Deuteronomy 20:10-18.
I admit that I made this post knowing it would stir up trouble. That
was bad of me, perhaps.
I want to clarify what I mean by it: I am NOT saying it is high time
for the Church to wipe out all her opposition. I believe we have
passed from the age when "there is a time for war," and we have
entered the age when it is "a time for peace" -- despite what evil men
are still doing in the world. I think the "war," now, is in the realm
of ideas. Thus, the internet, and Usenet.
Many people say things here that if they said them in "real life,"
would get them beaten up or killed. The difference between today and
the days gone by is that when the heretics who were killed said the
things they were saying, it was far more difficult to shut them up any
other way. One could not just turn the computer off. One could not
simply restrict their childrens' internet access in order to protect
their innocent young minds. The heretics were in the streets,
preaching blasphemy against God's Church, and no one could escape
their venom.
All this goes to say that it was natural in those days that they would
piss off the wrong people, who would have them killed. So that is on
the natural level.
On the supernatural level, the Scriptures speak for themselves. The
Church had just as much authority to call for the death of heretics as
the Jews had in Old Testament times, and the Jews were literally
commanded by God to wipe them out, and the reason --
Deuteronomy 20:18. "Lest they teach you to do all the abominations
which they have done to their gods: and you should sin against the
Lord your God."
-- is clearly spelled out.
Alberich
<SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 06:28:54 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 9 Nov 2003 02:16:55 GMT, Susan Williams
>><SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 21:22:09 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Would you please stop posting this drivel on
>>>>alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic? I seriously doubt whether
>>>>anyone there wants to read your inane anti-Catholic rantings.
>>>
>>>Would you please give up your thirst for the blood of those who differ
>>>with you in religion?
>>
>>I have no thirst for the blood of others in different religions.
>
>Yes, but would your cult please give up its thirst for blood?
If by that you mean the transubstantiation, I only feel bad that you
have fallen so far from grace that you can only see the eternal
sacrifice of Jesus Christ in terms of a "thirst for blood."
>>If
>>you knew anything about the Roman Catholic Church (save for the skewed
>>view you seem to get by posting the same two pieces of inane bovine
>>effluvia over and over),
>
>I would realize Protestant documentation tells me it isn't too
>concerned to prove its claims, it still demands that all non-Catholics
>be exterminated, it's followers are unscrupulous, and I would realize
>that alll that has been proven just on the newsgroups ALONE!
Perhaps you could point out where this is the Roman Catholic Church's
teaching? Would you please point to me to a RCC document on the
topic? Frankly, I'm not too concerned with what Protestant
documentation has to say about my Church. I have found that many
Protestants know as much about my Church as a pig knows of flying.
>> you would realize that your position is
>>untenable.
>
>Medical condition of Rome, NORMAL!
/yawn/ More ad hominem, rather than a citation to any RCC document?
>> Re-read the Vatican II documents (or what is more likely,
>>read them for the first time),
>
>Reread the posts here that condemned the lives of all non-Catholics.
>Read Protestant documentation that shows Rome cannot be reasoned with
>and then continue to fulfill that without your proofless rantings!
Oh boy. Is this where I learn that all Montanans are nutty
separationists based on the action of the Unabomber? (He *was* from
Montana, right?) Or that all whites are racists because some of them
don't like blacks? Or that all Germans are evil, or that all
Communists want to devour our babies??? You can do better than this.
>>concentrating on (1) the Declaration on
>>Religious Freedom and (2) the Declaration on the Relationship of the
>>Church to Non-Christian Religions. Perhaps actually reading documents
>>*by* the Church in lieu of whatever hate-filled tracts you have might
>>give you a better understanding of the Church.
>
>ROME IS THE SAME.
Your point is...what?
>On the newsgrroups her adherents have condemned to
>torture and death all non-Catholics.
It's possible that some have. Does that make it the official position
of the RCC? Not at all! From your posts, it seems you are an
Adventist. I would hate to think that they were all filled with as
much hate as you!
>To cover up Satan's odor, they
>tell us we are hateful for publishing exactly what Rome's posters have
>confirmed here!
This makes no sense.
>>>Twas not your methods that even allowed technological advancement to
>>>have you ranting as if you created it!
>>
>>Forgive me...my background was in biology, not electrical engineering.
>>Thanks for pointing that out, though.
>
>GOOD... EVEN THAT WAS STILTED BY ROME!
/yawn/ More ad hominem...have you anything calm, reasoned, and
logical to say? Or even just two of the three?
>>>>However, I can and will assure you that there is no global Catholic
>>>>conspiracy to wipe out all non-Catholics. If you persist in posting
>>>>this silly stuff, one may yet be formed.
>>>>
>>>>Alberich
>>>
>>>Why isn't there one. You came from a planet that does not prove
>>>anything located in Italy!
>>
>>That makes no sense!
It really doesn't. I can't figure out what that's supposed to mean.
Please explain it.
>Neither does my posts in concern for the lives of all non-Catholics.
The same concern that Catholics have.
>Neither do the scriptures that tell us what Christ will do to the
>Antichrist.
And what is that? Please, enlighten me.
>>>Your friends condemned all non-Catholics to torture and persecution as
>>>shown below. Why aren't you concerned????
>>
>>Because, (1) these aren't my "friends,"
>
>More show it by distancing yourself from them. If they don't make
>your church smell good, comment upon it instead of someone who is
>exposing what they have done.
I do!!! But I don't confuse the actions of a few with the policy of
all. That is a sin much worse than anything you confuse me of.
>You are lying again and again! If they
>misrepresent your church, send these hateful posts to them. They
>condemned all non-Catholics.
I didn't know that they had the authority to do that. Why don't you
concentrate more on your own religion, and less on what others think?
Are you so militant about Islam, as well?
>Demonstrate some concern and not just
>those who obey Homeland Security.
This statement, no matter how I look at it, makes no sense.
>YOU ARE ANOTHER LIAR FROM THE ANTICHRIST!
And you think you are a "good" Christian? Holy cow.
>>and (2) I don't put much stock
>>in pamphlets designed to instigate hate, no matter where they come
>>from. I hope you should be so discerning, too.
>>
>>Alberich
>
>GOOD! Then if hate came from me, for some strange reason death
>decrees did not spark your posts in protest!
Please show me these "death decrees" that came FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC
CHURCH!!!! Quit hiding behind calumny and ad hominem attacks, give me
what I ask for, or I will have no reason to believe you.
>YOU ARE ANOTHER LIAR
>FROM THE ANTICHRIST!!
Now, where have I seen this before...?
>In His Grace,
>
>
>Susan
Oh, that's right!--from the "graceful" Susan.
Alberich
Teresita
>No attacks. I merely point out how I feel about it. And were there a
>real Catholic plot to kill all non-Catholics, how can you possibly
>explain the fact that you are still alive after repeatedly posting
>such hate-filled malarkey?\
Rome has delayed Susan's execution because she does far more damage to
Adventistm alive and posting.
gaffo
>
> It is a sad testimony that a professed Atheist, has a greater respect
> of life and liberty, and more understanding of the inalienable right of
> each to follow the dictates of his own conscience, than many who profess
> to believe in, and follow the God who created those rights, and the
> country which was founded to uphold the same.
thanks for the compliment. humility is what Jesus taught - a value I
share with him. too many are arrogant know-alls in the country.
peace.
--
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001
€ R.L. Measures
<ga...@usenet.net> wrote:
> Truth wrote:
>
> >
> > It is a sad testimony that a professed Atheist, has a greater respect
> > of life and liberty, and more understanding of the inalienable right of
> > each to follow the dictates of his own conscience, than many who profess
> > to believe in, and follow the God who created those rights, and the
> > country which was founded to uphold the same.
>
>
>
> thanks for the compliment. humility is what Jesus taught - a value I
> share with him. too many are arrogant know-alls in the country.
** Does a humble person assault and batter street vendors?
Andrew
"Alberich" wrote:
>
> From your posts, it seems you are an Adventist. I would hate
> to think that they were all filled with as much hate as you!
He was formerly an Adventist, but has given himself to the control of demonic
agencies for the accomplishment of their agenda. He would again be welcomed
into church fellowship only upon a thorough conversion to Christ and probably
a rebaptism; which appears unlikely since he has steadfastly resisted all appeals
to return to God and to follow the teachings of our Savior. However, with God
all things are possible. Jesus healed such when He walked among us long ago.
May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Andrew
Raymond
> Truth wrote:
>
> >
> > It is a sad testimony that a professed Atheist, has a greater respect
> > of life and liberty, and more understanding of the inalienable right of
> > each to follow the dictates of his own conscience, than many who profess
> > to believe in, and follow the God who created those rights, and the
> > country which was founded to uphold the same.
>
>
>
> thanks for the compliment. humility is what Jesus taught - a value I
> share with him. too many are arrogant know-alls in the country.
Your last line negate the first and puts you right in with all the
"know-alls" Thank you for making that clear.
Raymond
Truth
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:14:11 -0500, Joseph Geloso
> <jose...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Supposing for a moment that the accusations of the SDAs and some
> >others are correct, that the Church uses the sword to destroy
> >heretics,
It is true. Your own Church writings confirm it. Your Pope's apologies
confirm it, all you who defend and justify it, continue to confirm it..
And it is laid out in Jesus' revelation to his church.
>what is wrong with that?
Those who do such "do not know what spirit they are of"? Satan is the
Father of murderers and liars? Those who do such do not know the Father
or the Son? The Son who said if you love me keep my commandments" one of
which is "Thou shalt not kill"? and "Do unto others as you would have
them do unto you" ? "Love your neighbour as yourself"? etc etc etc..
If you have to ask, it is obvious you identify yourself with the killers
and not the victims...
What is wrong with that?
<snip>
>
> Add Deuteronomy 20:10-18.
>
> I admit that I made this post knowing it would stir up trouble. That
> was bad of me, perhaps.
Not near as bad as the sentiments you express.
>
> I want to clarify what I mean by it: I am NOT saying it is high time
> for the Church to wipe out all her opposition. I believe we have
> passed from the age when "there is a time for war," and we have
> entered the age when it is "a time for peace" -- despite what evil men
> are still doing in the world. I think the "war," now, is in the realm
> of ideas. Thus, the internet, and Usenet.
>
> Many people say things here that if they said them in "real life,"
> would get them beaten up or killed. The difference between today and
> the days gone by is that when the heretics who were killed said the
> things they were saying, it was far more difficult to shut them up any
> other way. One could not just turn the computer off. One could not
> simply restrict their childrens' internet access in order to protect
> their innocent young minds. The heretics were in the streets,
> preaching blasphemy against God's Church, and no one could escape
> their venom.
And what can we learn from Jesus' example? What can we learn from the
example of the Apostles and the early Church? How did they "shut up"
those who did this in their day?
By burning them at the stake? by torture and forced conversion or death?
Wasn't it by the Word of God, which is truth, and by proving all things?
Only the enemy of God needs to silence people by death as the truth
exposes them, and their lies...
>
> All this goes to say that it was natural in those days that they would
> piss off the wrong people, who would have them killed. So that is on
> the natural level.
According to your reasoning of what is "natural":
Jesus would not "shut up" and it "pissed off" the wrong people,who had
him killed!!!
"what is wrong with that?"
The Apostles, when ordered not to preach the gospel, said "we will obey
God, and not man" and wouldn't shut up either, and "naturally" this
"pissed off" the wrong people, and almost all of them died martyrs
deaths!
"what is wrong with that?"
>
> On the supernatural level, the Scriptures speak for themselves. The
> Church had just as much authority to call for the death of heretics as
> the Jews had in Old Testament times,
Then where did Jesus command this? where is this record of the Church
killing "heretics" in the New Testament??? Isn't the only example of
this the Jewish Church, doing this to the Christian Church?
and the Jews were literally
> commanded by God to wipe them out, and the reason --
> Deuteronomy 20:18. "Lest they teach you to do all the abominations
> which they have done to their gods: and you should sin against the
> Lord your God."
> -- is clearly spelled out.
Many things are clearly spelled out in the Old testament, and applied to
ancient Israel which was not only God's chosen people and his Church,
but was also a Nation. How is it you can just pick out the verses to
justify killing and ignore the rest? How do you decide what is
applicable today? During Israel's Captivity in Babylon, Medio-Persia,
Greece, and Rome, what Nations laws had precidence? Did they run around
like a bunch of vigilanties, extirminating the pagan "heretics" in these
Nations they were living in? what laws did they obey? What did Jesus say
about God and Ceasar?
What has changed between the inquisitions and now?
Have the policies and mandates of Catholic Church, and it's magisterium
changed?
What do your recorded traditions say about this?
What is it that prevents this from happening today?
The laws of your Church? or the Laws of the state, holding your Church
in check?
Doesn't Rome say it is error to have a division of Church and state?
How is your thinking any different from those who killed the Saints and
Martyrs?
Will you answer this honestly?
~ Cindy
David Vestal
news:+r-091103...@192.168.1.101:
Let's suppose the "street vendors" were committing crimes against you, in
your own house. Would you be less humble for clearing them out, even
violently?
David Vestal
news:bon5pf$ds...@rain.i-cable.com:
>
> "gaffo" <ga...@usenet.net> wrote in message
> news:Uhzrb.2593$ux4.108...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> Truth wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > It is a sad testimony that a professed Atheist, has a greater
>> > respect of life and liberty, and more understanding of the
>> > inalienable right of each to follow the dictates of his own
>> > conscience, than many who profess to believe in, and follow the God
>> > who created those rights, and the country which was founded to
>> > uphold the same.
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks for the compliment. humility is what Jesus taught - a value I
>> share with him. too many are arrogant know-alls in the country.
>
> Your last line negate the first and puts you right in with all the
> "know-alls" Thank you for making that clear.
To acknowledge the presence of "know-alls" puts you in their company and
betrays a lack of humility? Raymond, that's absurd. Speaking frankly
for a moment, you would carry more weight on this newsgroup if you didn't
always use the easiest comeback you can think of. I say that with
friendly intent, because I'm feeling friendly right now. Whether you
learn from it is up to you.
-David
Truth
"Alan M" <nos...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:dVrrb.3905$aT....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
example of Jesus, she is.
Even hatred of a brother is the same as being a murderer,(1 John 3:15) I
have showed you this text before, and you gave your opinion that this
wasn't true. I can not make you accept the Word of God as truth.
It is. In Revelation, a prophecy is given about a Nation that would
arise about the same time that Rome received a deadly wound,(1798) which
would later begin to heal,(1929) this nation would be recognized because
of it's two horns, signifying a division, unlike every other beast or
nation in prophecy that rose by conquest of people multitudes nations
and tongues, this beast does not conguer a established political power,
it starts out lamblike and ends up dragonlike, and making a image to the
other beast(Rome)..
This beast can only be the United States, founded as protestant, and a
republic, with a division of Church and State. The declaration of
independance was signed in 1776 and it's first president elected in
1789.
If asked to describe the characteristics, and principles of the U.S.
today as compared to it's foundation, would you say it is more like a
lamb or a dragon?
You know Alan, I cannot really understand, how you can claim to
understand nothing Susan posts,
Susan posted about this in some detail, and I thought the post was very
eloquent, and well written.
I read it outloud to someone and they had no problem understanding, and
in fact requested copies of it to send to others.
I am basically a computer idiot, and can not figure out how to make long
links work, but the post is easily found in the google archives, it is
entitled: #PROPHECY TELLS US THE NATIONS ARE DRUNK!! and has a link to
the first part.
Please do yourself a favor and read it.
~ Cindy
Raymond
"David Vestal" <someogget...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:Xns942F5B5415F1Dso...@130.133.1.4...
Well David when we get down to it, this whole line of post are kind of
absurd. Then I never said I was humble all the time did I? Then humility
is a weakness to some, and fake to some, and noting but a joke to others.
They would use it to win a argument, and then laugh behind their backs that
he put on over on them.
I do not need to carry more weight in the newsgroup, I am happy as it is. I
do like easy come backs, they do get attention, look your replying aren't
you? If we do not get attention then what we do say, is lost. I 'm glad
your feeling friendly right now, does that mean most of the time you do not?
Raymond
>
> -David
David Vestal
If you count my reply, some friendly advice that would help you be taken
more seriously, as all the attention you desire, so be it.
If you're happy with the fact that your predictable and irrelevant
responses cause you be thought of as an intellectual lightweight, so be
it. To each his own.
> If we do not get attention then what we do say,
> is lost.
If the attention we get is condescending in nature, due to our
overreliance on predictably banal remarks, then what we say is lost
anyway. What we say is lost unless we receive not mere attention, but
respectful attention. Logically fallacious replies, chosen because they
come easily to mind and seem clever at the time, will not inspire that
kind of attention.
> I 'm glad your feeling friendly right now, does that mean
> most of the time you do not?
There are aspects of replies which do not inspire friendliness in me. Ad
hominem attacks are one, irrelevances are another, misrepresentations
still a third. Since those are common in this newsgroup, my replies are
often not delivered in a friendly spirit.
Truth
"Andrew" <andr...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:bomjp6$1g69gk$1...@ID-97599.news.uni-berlin.de...
How can you prove the things you say here?
Can you face the one you accuse and answer the questions? You have been
asked to many times, isn't that correct? Aren't there posts even now
asking you to? How is it, that instead of answering them, you are
repeating your accusations here, WITHOUT PROOF, or evidence?
Can you cite your authority to censure and judge on behalf of the SDA
church?
Have you complied with the rules Jesus has given about this?
If not, Why should anyone listen to a word you say?
I already believe you are a proven liar,infiltrated among us, but as
you do keep pretending this is Adventist behavior to defend Satanic
principles and attack those who point this out, and just keep preaching
about using Jesus' methods, and about not judging, and quoting Ellen
White, kindly explain your behavior here, in light of everything you
have taught, and as here, continually disregard.
~Cindy
..When any one comes to a minister or to men in positions of trust, with
complaints about a brother or sister, let them ask the reporter, "Have
you complied with the rules our Saviour has given?" and if he has failed
to carry out any particular of this instruction, do not listen to a word
of his complaint. Refuse to take up a report against your brother or
sister in the faith. If members of the church go entirely contrary to
these rules, they make themselves subjects of church discipline and
should be put under the censure of the church. This matter, so plainly
taught in the lessons of Christ, has been passed over with strange
indifference. The church has either neglected her work entirely, or has
done it with harshness and severity, wounding and bruising souls.
Measures should be taken to correct this cruel spirit of criticism, of
judging one another's motives, as though Christ had revealed to men the
hearts of their brethren. The neglect of doing aright, with wisdom and
grace, the work that ought to have been done, has left churches weak,
inefficient, and almost Christless.
Jesus adds to the lesson these words: "Verily I say unto you,
Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and
whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This
assurance, that after the rules of Christ have been followed to the
letter, the decisions of the church will be ratified in heaven, gives a
solemn significance to the action of the church. No hasty steps should
be taken to cut off names from the church books, or to place a member
under censure until the case has been investigated, and the Bible rule
fully obeyed. The word of Christ shows how necessary it is for church
officers to be free from prejudice and selfish motives. Human minds and
hearts, unless wholly sanctified, purified, and refined from partiality
and prejudice, are liable to commit grave errors, to misjudge and deal
unkindly and unjustly with souls that are the purchase of the blood of
Christ. But the decision of an unjust judge will be of no account in the
court of heaven. It will not make an innocent man guilty, nor change his
character in the least before God. As surely as men in responsible
positions become lifted up in their own esteem, and act as though they
were to lord it over their brethren, they will render many decisions
which heaven cannot ratify.
May God pity those who are watching, as did the Pharisees, to find
something to condemn in their brethren, and who pride themselves on
their wonderfully acute discernment. That which they call discernment is
cold, satanic criticism, acuteness in suspecting and charging souls with
evil intent who are less guilty than themselves. They are, like the
enemy of God, accusers of the brethren. These souls, whatever their
position or experience, need to humble themselves before God. How can
they pray, "Forgive me as I forgive others"? "With what measure ye mete,
it shall be measured to you again." "He shall have judgment without
mercy, that hath showed no mercy." God grants no pardon to him whose
penitence produces no humility, and whose faith does not work by love to
purify the soul. We need to study the example of Him who was meek and
lowly, who, when he was reviled, reviled not again. A vindictive spirit
will not be indulged by a true Christian... HM, February 1, 1892
Truth
"€ R.L. Measures" <@somis.org> wrote in message
news:+r-091103...@192.168.1.101...
When he is angry that they are invading and corupting his Father's
house? Yes.
He will even first take the time to go plait his own whip to do it
with..
~ Cindy
>
> --
> € R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. in adr = spam trap
€ R.L. Measures
Vestal <someogget...@mailcity.com> wrote:
** If street vendors are not providing a needed service in an area, they
will go to an area where they were needed. If said street vendors were
committing crimes, it's a good bet that Pontius Pilate would have nailed
'em pretty damned quick because Roman governors were undoubtedly 100% Dead
serious about Pax Romani. I do not believe that Jesus thought his Dad
lived in the Jewish Temple at Jerusalem. If He does, you Catholics and
your infallible leader are in some deep feces.
David Vestal
At the risk of seeming disingenuous, why do you assume I'm talking about
Jesus and the Temple? I asked a simple question, which deserves, and can
be given, a simple yes/no answer. On a purely hypothetical level, if
"street vendors" were committing crimes against you, in your own house,
would you be less humble for clearing them out, even violently?
> If He does, you Catholics and your infallible leader are in some deep
> feces.
I am not Catholic.
Joseph Geloso
<privacy-is...@friends-already-know-it.com> wrote:
>Doesn't Rome say it is error to have a division of Church and state?
Absolutely, it is error. God should be honored as the King, and the
King should rule the world.
>How is your thinking any different from those who killed the Saints and
>Martyrs?
Those who killed the Saints and Martyrs were trying to destroy God's
Church -- I am trying to build it up.
>Will you answer this honestly?
I'm pretty sure you don't think so.
In any case, my point in posting these things was not, as you suppose,
to reinstate the Inquisition or anything like that. My point is simply
this: EVEN IF the Church has in fact destroyed heretics by the sword,
the fact would still not make her antichrist, nor the Pope antichrist.
The passage from the Book of Deuteronomy proves that God in fact
commanded that Israel should wipe out those who might lead them away
from the true religion, with the sword. There are many who claim, just
because of passages like this, that the Old Testament God is a God of
intolerance and hate. But you don't buy into that, do you? Some have
made the charge against God that He is a murderer and commanded
genocide. But really what He was doing was protecting the doctrinal
purity of the ancient Old Testament Church.
The New Testament Church possibly did the same thing, although the
historical sources we have for this, you will no doubt agree, cannot
be placed on a level of reliability with the Bible. That she had the
power to do so, no one denies. What I am submitting is simply that she
also had the authority to do so.
Is it better to be patient with heretics, pray for their conversion,
and suffer them to live? Certainly it is. But when they manifest that
they are not going to convert, no matter what, and they start drawing
innocent souls away from the Truth, then they have become more than a
nuisance -- they then become a danger to souls.
As to whether it is worse to be a danger to the soul or to the body, I
think you will agree that it is worse to be a danger to the soul.
€ R.L. Measures
Vestal <someogget...@mailcity.com> wrote:
€ Who were you referring to clearing out?
>I asked a simple question, which deserves, and can
> be given, a simple yes/no answer. On a purely hypothetical level, if
> "street vendors" were committing crimes against you, in your own house,
> would you be less humble for clearing them out, even violently?
€ I would not clear them out either politely or violently, I would walk.
>
> > If He does, you Catholics and your infallible leader are in some deep
> > feces.
>
> I am not Catholic.
€ Well excuse me! What then?
David Vestal
I'm posing a hypothetical question, so there's no one specifically to
whom I'm referring. Obviously, I have a point to make, but at the moment
I merely pose a hypothetical.
>
>>I asked a simple question, which deserves, and can
>> be given, a simple yes/no answer. On a purely hypothetical level, if
>> "street vendors" were committing crimes against you, in your own
>> house, would you be less humble for clearing them out, even
>> violently?
>
> € I would not clear them out either politely or violently, I would
> walk.
I didn't ask what you'd do, as you well know. I asked whether it would
detract from a person's humility if he violently cleared his home of
hypothetical "street vendors" who were committing crimes against him--
let's say they were robbing his house. This question can be answered
with a "yes" or "no," and I'm still waiting for your answer to it.
>>
>> > If He does, you Catholics and your infallible leader are in some
>> > deep feces.
>>
>> I am not Catholic.
>
> € Well excuse me! What then?
I'm currently a bit difficult to categorize. Consider me a disenchanted
in-the-process-of-renouncing-inerrancy born-again tongue-talking non-
apostolic non-pentecostal non-denominational non-faith-healing one-God
whole-Bible John-Dominic-Crossan-despising Christian. Does that clear it
up?
Raymond
I do not count your reply as of any value, since I do get too many replies
to my postings now. Then lightweight is only in your eyes, and it is not
your ways, then so fare your ways, is not what I would want to follow, and
most of what you did write here to me, would fit you better, then I did not
think it was my place to put you in your place, but you here did bring it
up.
>
> > If we do not get attention then what we do say, is lost.
>
> If the attention we get is condescending in nature, due to our
> overreliance on predictably banal remarks, then what we say is lost
> anyway. What we say is lost unless we receive not mere attention, but
> respectful attention. Logically fallacious replies, chosen because they
> come easily to mind and seem clever at the time, will not inspire that
> kind of attention.
Attention is what is needed, if your mind has already been closed, because
the person you post to has not accepted your teachings, and do not think
your able to teach what the Bible does say. You would wee them as such,
when in fact it is you that has the problem your trying so hard to pass off
to others. Then my replies are not fallacious, if anything your statement
here could fit that category.
>
> > I 'm glad your feeling friendly right now, does that mean
> > most of the time you do not?
>
> There are aspects of replies which do not inspire friendliness in me. Ad
> hominem attacks are one, irrelevances are another, misrepresentations
> still a third. Since those are common in this newsgroup, my replies are
> often not delivered in a friendly spirit.
Then a real friend doesn't pat one on the back and say "well done" when it
isn't, a real friend tells it like it is, no matter what your feelings are
or how you will feel about it. That is a friend. Then I do not
misrepresent, and such silly self lifting remarks only show you are
misrepresenting things for your own agenda. Then you did not fully answer my
question, more like just an excuse.
Raymond
Susan Williams
wrote:
>
>"Truth" <privacy-is...@friends-already-know-it.com> wrote in message
>news:2c08735abe4660d4...@news.teranews.com...
>>
><snip>
>> > Cindy,
>> >
>> > This "killer" is probably just a troll.
>>
>> Alan,
>>
>> People do not suddenly become trolls just because they say things that
>> are
>> shocking or obscene. Romes mandates are shocking and obscene, many
>> Catholics, or even those who think themselves protestant, do not realize
>> this, when faced with it, they have two choices, leave and condemn Rome,
>> or support and defend her.
>>
>> The Poster is Catholic, and I can remember him posting on the NG's for
>> at least a couple of years, always in support of Catholic doctrines and
>> mandates, which is exactly what he is doing here.
>
>I'll stand corrected here Cindy.
>
>> It is no different
>> than Teresita, or Ted Seeber, they were not speaking independantly they
>> are voicing the actual unchanging beliefs of Rome. Her proudest boast is
>> that she does not change.
>
>Everyone changes to some extent. In any case, it doesn't mean that Teresita
>is a killer.
No, she just condemned all non-Catholics to torture and extermination
and told us that the bible mandates this, that's all! She has the
same beliefs as the Ustashis and all others of the worst killers of
all time, that's all! Alan has wonderful judgment since he condemns
those who point this out as hateful, but has no problem with the
killers! Here he makes statements without proving them. That was a
habit the killers of all tiime always had also!
>> It is difficult when confronted with it,to believe that people can think
>> like this.
>
>You've got that right. I can only hope that such people are never in a
>position to enact their beliefs.
All history shows that when they get their opportunity, they will
mass-murder. Under the scriptures, THEY ARE ALREADY MURDERERS as
shown by Christ Himself!
It is far more clear than that in light of Homeland Security! That is
not what President Bush told us is the remedy for trained terrorists,
let alone SUPER-terrorists!
>> Time and time again you see the same spirit ruling the masses has been
>> revealed in the history of this world.
>>
>> And time and time again, those who first notice something is wrong and
>> try to point it out, are opposed.
>> Didn't that happen in Germany, not so very long ago???
>>
>
>Yep. It would be a hell of a thing to recognise your own country as a
>tyranny. Few would have both the strength to do that and the judgement to be
>right. People want to believe in their country and it's understandable how
>they can be lead astray.
I can't believe this is Alan speaking!
_______________________________________________________________________________
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Susan Williams
wrote:
Well added to the fact that you are a Vatican scoundrel is the fact
that you can't read pure English. Just the fact you killers marry my
posts proves it is true and not drivel! Only to Jesuits who are
without all conscience must be declarations of drivel and then
constant trailing of drivel and manure! I've said this before, but
it's great to know that scoundrels with your common sense give my
posts credit!
>> >Susie's "explanations" are just more of
>> >the same twaddle.
>>
>> Twaddle is not what makes the servants of the Antichrist always rush
>> and bottleneck to deal with some emergency caused by my posts.
>>
>> >To date, noone else has been able to explain Susie's fuss
>> >either.
>>
>> Simple question then is to answer why twaddle and post which cannot be
>> understood causes the vultures to rush to the emergency and then
>> declare me a demon.
>>
>> Explain to us Antichrist Alan what the following post which Teresita
>> claims to have "tortured" killers like herself means and how posts
>> which cannot be understood can torture killers like yourself:
>
>I'd have more chance of flying to the moon than explaining anything you post
>Susie.
Not only that, explaining why you yet must post against them to take
up space and address an emergency is harder than your Vatican flying
to Saturn! Still you forgot the question super-terrorist!:
================
Explain to us Antichrist Alan what the following post which Teresita
claims to have "tortured" killers like herself means and how posts
which cannot be understood can torture killers like yourself:
In His Grace,
Susan
Susan Williams
INTENTIONALLY ASKS THE SAME DUMB QUESTIONS IN ORDER TO DECEIVE!
Here recorded 11/10/2003
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:01:00 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
wrote:
Deal with the issues, answer the points, provide proofs with your
statements. Don't preach against making attacks and accusations
before, during and after you attack and make accusations. You Jesuits
have been doing that for too long. If you're concerned about
bandwidth obtain conscience.
Still, the concern of you Jesuits to take away from the fact that you
have boldly condemned all non-Catholics to torture and extermination
is either bandwidth, who we are, or any other concern to divert. No
wonder you break your own preaching and accuse us of mental illness!
>However, why do you think that people complain? Is it possible that
>they might have a point?
If Al-Qaedda was planning a terrorist attack and we posted about it,
would we think something was mentally wrong with them?
Why would you think people would be concerned that posters have
condemned billions of people on the newsgroups under Homeland
Security? Is it possible they might have a point that obeying
Homeland Security by exposing them may be the right thing to do?
>>Even you merely posted attacks without any education or proofl
>
>No attacks. I merely point out how I feel about it.
How you feel about these posters condemning all non-Catholics to
extermination? Or ready to testify of your mental health!
> And were there a
>real Catholic plot to kill all non-Catholics, how can you possibly
>explain the fact that you are still alive after repeatedly posting
>such hate-filled malarkey?
I am not talking to you, a killer, to educate you. Educating you
Jesuits for centuries has proven to be futile. I will even give the
answer and you will not answer it.
If you can notice my posting to expose the most abandoned killers as
hate-filled malarkey, as I have told you before, YOU ARE ONE OF THE
KILLERS AND YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE ANTICHRIST.
Answer the question: How can you know I am posting hate-filled
malarkey after you see people here condemning all non-Catholics to
torture and extermination?
I am sorry you have chosen to be damned to serve the Antichrist.
Now you can move off of my nonsense and hateful malarkey as you term
it and stop addressing the emergency. YOU KILLERS WILL BE EXPOSED AT
LEAST FOR A WITNESS!
I can't help it if you belong to the most hateful and damned of all
cults. Mutilating and killing a person is a demonstration of far more
hate than what your cult has trained you to pretend comes from
exposing it. JUST ASK HOMELAND SECURITY!
Homeland Security asks people to expose super-terrorists, not to join
a cult that produces them and fret because they are being exposed!
In His Grace,
Susan
>
>
>Alberich
Susan Williams
with Rome wiping out all her opposition:
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 14:11:07 -0500, Joseph Geloso
<jose...@hotmail.com> wrote:
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHY YOU SERVANTS OF THE ANTICHRIST KNEW BETTER
THAN TO ANSWER THE QUESTION I GAVE ABOUT THE GOOD SAMMARITAN? JESUS
TOLD THE PEOPLE TO LOVE THEIR NEIGHBOURS AND WAS ASKED WHO IS A
NEIGHBOUR.
Why then did all you servants of the Antichrist tell us we were
hateful for name-calling WITHOUT telling us you had the right to wipe
out whole races of people and not be hateful?
Sorry, we don't buy that. But let me tell you you are going to again
completely ignore the point I made about the Good Sammaritan. Christ
said that the wheat and the tares are to grow together until the
harvest PERFORMED BY GOD HIMSELF!
Romans 12 tells Christ's church--NOT ROME:
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto
wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the
Lord.
IS THIS PLAIN, YOU KILLERS??
Explain to us the difference between the Old and New Testaments you
people are deliberately evading!
In His Grace,
Susan
Susan Williams
with Rome wiping out all her opposition:
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 14:11:07 -0500, Joseph Geloso
<jose...@hotmail.com> wrote:
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHY YOU SERVANTS OF THE ANTICHRIST KNEW BETTER
Susan Williams
wrote:
>On 9 Nov 2003 12:25:44 GMT, Susan Williams
><SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 06:28:54 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 9 Nov 2003 02:16:55 GMT, Susan Williams
>>><SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 21:22:09 GMT, Alberich <Albe...@NoSpam.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Would you please stop posting this drivel on
>>>>>alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic? I seriously doubt whether
>>>>>anyone there wants to read your inane anti-Catholic rantings.
>>>>
>>>>Would you please give up your thirst for the blood of those who differ
>>>>with you in religion?
>>>
>>>I have no thirst for the blood of others in different religions.
>>
>>Yes, but would your cult please give up its thirst for blood?
>
>If by that you mean the transubstantiation, I only feel bad that you
>have fallen so far from grace that you can only see the eternal
>sacrifice of Jesus Christ in terms of a "thirst for blood."
This servant of the Antichrist understood my point and question. He
didn't learn to evade and lie on his own.
>>>If
>>>you knew anything about the Roman Catholic Church (save for the skewed
>>>view you seem to get by posting the same two pieces of inane bovine
>>>effluvia over and over),
>>
>>I would realize Protestant documentation tells me it isn't too
>>concerned to prove its claims, it still demands that all non-Catholics
>>be exterminated, it's followers are unscrupulous, and I would realize
>>that alll that has been proven just on the newsgroups ALONE!
>
>Perhaps you could point out where this is the Roman Catholic Church's
>teaching? Would you please point to me to a RCC document on the
>topic? Frankly, I'm not too concerned with what Protestant
>documentation has to say about my Church. I have found that many
>Protestants know as much about my Church as a pig knows of flying.
Here is a link:
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/RomeProtestantsSame.htm
Come back and explain it instead of coming back with the usual attacks
and evasions without answering what it says.
>>> you would realize that your position is
>>>untenable.
>>
>>Medical condition of Rome, NORMAL!
>
>/yawn/ More ad hominem, rather than a citation to any RCC document?
You mean I have to site the document before knowing you requested it?
Why does this Vatican scoundrel, among the others, known for evading
questions, requires that his questions be answered?
>>> Re-read the Vatican II documents (or what is more likely,
>>>read them for the first time),
>>
>>Reread the posts here that condemned the lives of all non-Catholics.
>>Read Protestant documentation that shows Rome cannot be reasoned with
>>and then continue to fulfill that without your proofless rantings!
>
>Oh boy. Is this where I learn that all Montanans are nutty
>separationists based on the action of the Unabomber?
Oh boy! Is this the way you evade the clear requirement that is
shown. Someone here cannot be made to see that a number of people
have condemned all non-Catholics to torture and extermination. He has
to cover this over with an Oh boy and a total evasion! Next, he will
probably tell us how abortion distresses his soul without realizing
that whole races of people condemned INCLUDES BABIES!!
>(He *was* from
>Montana, right?)
You understand that members of your cult have condemned all
non-Catholics to torture and extermination during Homeland Security,
right?
> Or that all whites are racists because some of them
>don't like blacks?
You understand that members of your cult have condemned all
non-Catholics to torture and extermination during Homeland Security,
right?
> Or that all Germans are evil, or that all
>Communists want to devour our babies??? You can do better than this.
You understand that members of your cult have condemned all
non-Catholics to torture and extermination during Homeland Security,
right? You can do better than to think we are so dumb to not realize
you are using Vatican trained tactics to evade the issue of life!
>>>concentrating on (1) the Declaration on
>>>Religious Freedom and (2) the Declaration on the Relationship of the
>>>Church to Non-Christian Religions. Perhaps actually reading documents
>>>*by* the Church in lieu of whatever hate-filled tracts you have might
>>>give you a better understanding of the Church.
>>
>>ROME IS THE SAME.
>
>Your point is...what?
If you can't see this, what's the point:
You understand that members of your cult have condemned all
non-Catholics to torture and extermination during Homeland Security,
right?
>>On the newsgrroups her adherents have condemned to
>>torture and death all non-Catholics.
>
>It's possible that some have. Does that make it the official position
>of the RCC?
You mean you noticed I was hateful, but all you can come up with
viewing your fellow cult members condemning all non-Catholics to
torture and extermination is that it is POSSIBLE that some have??
Next you ask if that means it is the official position of Rome! I
gave a link, and you see many posters even using scripture telling us
that Rome does decree the extermination of all non-Catholics and that
it is good that she does so. Of course, you are one of those killers
destined to tell us you are sane and we are mentally ill!
>Not at all!
Mind proving that with all your ignoring of my points and questions?
>From your posts, it seems you are an
>Adventist.
Some may be. Other religions expose the Antichrist also!
>I would hate to think that they were all filled with as
>much hate as you!
Again for the millionth time to your damned soul:
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>To cover up Satan's odor, they
>>tell us we are hateful for publishing exactly what Rome's posters have
>>confirmed here!
>
>This makes no sense.
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
NOTHING GOOD WILL MAKE SENSE TO YOU!
>>>>Twas not your methods that even allowed technological advancement to
>>>>have you ranting as if you created it!
>>>
>>>Forgive me...my background was in biology, not electrical engineering.
>>>Thanks for pointing that out, though.
>>
>>GOOD... EVEN THAT WAS STILTED BY ROME!
>
>/yawn/ More ad hominem...have you anything calm, reasoned, and
>logical to say? Or even just two of the three?
How about this you will have to ignore in keeping the Jesuit Oath:
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>>>>However, I can and will assure you that there is no global Catholic
>>>>>conspiracy to wipe out all non-Catholics. If you persist in posting
>>>>>this silly stuff, one may yet be formed.
>>>>>
>>>>>Alberich
>>>>
>>>>Why isn't there one. You came from a planet that does not prove
>>>>anything located in Italy!
>>>
>>>That makes no sense!
>
>It really doesn't. I can't figure out what that's supposed to mean.
>Please explain it.
Ok then:
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>Neither does my posts in concern for the lives of all non-Catholics.
>
>The same concern that Catholics have.
Oh? But what about this:
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>Neither do the scriptures that tell us what Christ will do to the
>>Antichrist.
>
>And what is that? Please, enlighten me.
OK:
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>>>Your friends condemned all non-Catholics to torture and persecution as
>>>>shown below. Why aren't you concerned????
>>>
>>>Because, (1) these aren't my "friends,"
You have overlooked their condemnation of millions of lives to attack
those who are exposing them. I have more sense to know a liar than
what you give me credit for!
>>More show it by distancing yourself from them. If they don't make
>>your church smell good, comment upon it instead of someone who is
>>exposing what they have done.
>
>I do!!! But I don't confuse the actions of a few with the policy of
>all. That is a sin much worse than anything you confuse me of.
You have not condemned a single one of them or even threatened to
expose them to Homeland Security. We have much experience with you
damned Jesuits! All your postings, attacks and condemnations have
been against those who exposed them. Show us your efforts to expose
them and obey Homeland Security! Don't lie to us. Stop moving your
lying lips or your pen then. SHOW US you are telling the truth!
and...
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>You are lying again and again! If they
>>misrepresent your church, send these hateful posts to them. They
>>condemned all non-Catholics.
>
>I didn't know that they had the authority to do that. Why don't you
>concentrate more on your own religion, and less on what others think?
>Are you so militant about Islam, as well?
The lying killer is here concentrating on me because I'm exposing his
fellow killers, and he tells me this absurdity above here!
>>Demonstrate some concern and not just
>>those who obey Homeland Security.
>
>This statement, no matter how I look at it, makes no sense.
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>YOU ARE ANOTHER LIAR FROM THE ANTICHRIST!
>
>And you think you are a "good" Christian? Holy cow.
THE WRITTEN STATEMENTS OF HOMELAND SECURITY THINKS I'M GOOD WITHOUT
BEING HOLY!!
>>>and (2) I don't put much stock
>>>in pamphlets designed to instigate hate, no matter where they come
>>>from. I hope you should be so discerning, too.
I just read such pamphlets on the computer screen of the newsgroups.
Wanna compare?
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>>Alberich
>>
>>GOOD! Then if hate came from me, for some strange reason death
>>decrees did not spark your posts in protest!
>
>Please show me these "death decrees" that came FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC
>CHURCH!!!! Quit hiding behind calumny and ad hominem attacks, give me
>what I ask for, or I will have no reason to believe you.
If I have shown the death decrees by Rome's killers, and this other
killer copies the same that was done by the Jesuits for years on the
internet against us by evading from it and ignoring it to complain of
their stomach cramps that I am exposing killers, what would it do to
post more evidence against an evidence-hating cult?
Here is a link the demon has to ignore anyway:
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/RomeProtestantsSame.htm
>>YOU ARE ANOTHER LIAR
>>FROM THE ANTICHRIST!!
>
>Now, where have I seen this before...?
You mean this?
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
>>In His Grace,
>>
>>
>>Susan
>Oh, that's right!--from the "graceful" Susan.
>
>
>Alberich
Enough to give you more questions you have to ignore with your hateful
attacks:
IF YOU CAN'T NOTICE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONDEMNED WHOLE INFINITE
MULTITUDES OF MEN, WOMEN, BOYS, GIRLS AND LITTLE BABIES TO
EXTERMINATION IS HATE, YOU ARE DAMNED, YOU ARE A SERVANT OF THE
ANTICHRIST, YOU ARE A SON OF SATAN, YOU ARE A PRINCE OF HATE, YOU ARE
HOPELESS!!
Susan Williams
>In article <tg3tqvk8icr0vvmqe...@4ax.com>, Alberich says...
>
>>No attacks. I merely point out how I feel about it. And were there a
>>real Catholic plot to kill all non-Catholics, how can you possibly
>>explain the fact that you are still alive after repeatedly posting
>>such hate-filled malarkey?\
>
>Rome has delayed Susan's execution because she does far more damage to
>Adventistm alive and posting.
Not to mention Homeland Security by exposing the fact that you and
your friends have decreed the torture and extermination of all
non-Catholics as proven here:
=============
A man by the name of Ted Seeber condemned all non-Catholic life when
with approval he told us that:
"NONE of the groups persecuted by the Catholics were living the Bible.
They were living their personal interpretations of God, not the Bible"
You can find that statement here as I submit the evidence:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.religion.christian.adventist&scoring=r&as_drrb=b&as_mind=5&as_minm=10&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=7&as_maxm=10&as_maxy=2001&selm=55de15cf.0110071743.205a5dea%40posting.google.com
Brother Ted revealed that this was done just after the 911 attacks
when America was assessng what a terrorist was with respect to human
life.
Because of the revelation, Ted Seeber had to make an excuse and leave.
He left his website up, but his pictures and other things appeared to
have disappeared from it.
Soon, another killer super-terrorist became insensed at what was done
to Ted Seeber. He then moved out to attack me as I was showing how
Seeber confirmed THAT ROME HADN'T CHANGED. She still has
mass-exterminations as part of her agenda, practice and habits. To
accomplish this she has demons in human form trained to storm all free
media and teach people how they must understand that people will
disagree.
That killer refashioned his name after mine in the reverse and called
himself "William Suzanne." The man then entered with the boldest of
lies, much like John Ashcroft telling us the Patriot Act is
Constitutional!
He comes in telling us that SEEBER DOESN'T SPEAK FOR (or represent)
Rome in his condemnation of all non-Catholics.
I had to ask the super-terrorist more than once why then he wasn't
upset with Seeber for MISREPRESENTING Rome. As usual, the
super-terrorist then moved into an unbridled attack against the
Adventist Church LEAVING THE QUESTION COMPLETELY UNTOUCHED!!
Now some of you may well not be convinced that Ted Seeber condemned
all non-Catholics on the newsgroups. Actually, to this day, even
those on the newsgroups who formerly denied it had to confess that
Seeber did just that, and they went into every manner of defense for
Seeber. As we expose the dialogues, we will more prove this.
However, since we started this work, another person came out more
boldly and gave approval of the deaths of millions of Christians. She
posts under the name of Teresita. When I made mention of that great
Christian work Foxe's Book of Martyrs, detailing centuries of
uncountable murders of bible-believing Christians, she referred to the
work as:
"Foxe's Book of Hereticks." She therefore approved of their deaths
because they viewed religion differently:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=b0165u09im%40drn.newsguy.com
1/14/2003
Naturally, we got on her case for her boldness here as we still have
the liberty to do in this free country.
Teresita in response lied to us, telling us that when she called
Foxe's Book of Martyrs "Foxe's Book of Heretics," she was only
referring to the Albigenses of the Protestant Reformation 5/29/2003
who were a minority group of Christians during that time:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bb521t01pej%40drn.newsguy.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:thl3424526807d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Dbb521t01pej%2540drn.newsguy.com>
How do we know she was lying? The Albigenses were hardly mentioned in
that massive work. Protestants usually have little to say about the
Albigenses BECAUSE BOTH THEMSELVES AND ALL THEIR WORKS WERE COMPLETELY
ANNIHILATED BY ROME! But more proof that she was lying comes in her
next response as she worked to divert from my advancing questions:
Teresita belied her claim that she was only refering to the Albigenses
when she condemned the Christian martyrs as "hereticks" by condemning
Tyndale, who was not one of the Albigenses:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bcfbru0230p%40drn.newsguy.com>
NEXT:
When pressed further and further to reveal her beliefs she is trained
to hide on the matter of the value of human life, Teresita says the
Vatican merely carried out God's commands when they killed millions of
Christians because the Israelites did the same with their enemies.
Here she is freely admitting what all those "Anti-Catholics" and
"Catholic-haters" have been saying all along:
Here is that dialogue below:
From: Teresita (tere...@newsguy.com)
Subject: Re: Teresita responds inappropriatly
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.adventist,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, tnn.religion.catholic
Date: 2003-05-29 12:05:31 PST
In article <6s6bdv0l317i6dfjs...@4ax.com>, Susan says...
>
>Like Ted Seeber, you gave approval to their deaths and then come on the forums telling me I hate people just because they disagree.
>
>We are still under Homeland Security right through to the destruction of this nation. We are asked to report all terrorist activity found
>in people who have a profound disrespect of human life!
Teresita replies:
We merely carried out God's commandment in His Eternal Word:
Deuteronomy 17:2-5 "If there is found among you, within any of your
towns which the Lord your God gives you, a man or woman who does what
is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his
covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or
the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have
forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it; then you shall
inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an
abominable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring forth
to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you
shall stone that man or woman to death with stones."
ARE YOU LISTENING HOMELAND SECURITY??? She claims the scriptures
mandated their actions IN THE NEW TESTAMENT!! Is it the New Testament
now? Do those scriptures still exist now and have weight now IN THE
NEW TESTAMENT??
LASTLY AND MOST STRONGLY:
After telling us that just to expose these facts about Rome she is now
boldly admitting is hatred, what would happen if we took a look at
what ANTI-PROTESTANTISM always was throughout the ages? When we
brought this issue about hatred up for her condemning the lives of all
non-Catholics, this is how she declared Rome didn't hate her victims
she was killing:
I wrote:
In article <3dqrmvoit629haa6l...@4ax.com>, Susan
Williams says...
>But super-terrorists--I mean SUPER-TERRORISTS, we are waiting for
>evidence. We were not born to listen to the worst killers on the
>earth who tell us what we must do, but when we expose how they are
>they tell the world we hate Catholics. They can kill all
>non-Catholics they say, BUT THEY DON'T HATE THEM!
Teresita replies:
It's nothing personal. It's just business.
--
Encyclopedia Teresita
Now the man who was ready to pull out his hair telling us that Ted
Seeber didn't represent Rome when he condemned the lives of all
non-Catholics is nowhere to be found with Teresita boldly confirming
the same. Instead he attacks the Adventist Church as a dangerous
cult:
Super-terrorist William Suzanne:
>They very much want to be perceived as Evangelical Christians, seeking
>a place on the ministerial fellowships. All this is good PR for them,
>but what do they really believe?
Susan Williams:
True Adventist are not like that. The problem is that demon-possessed
killers from the Antichrist such as William Suzanne have infiltrated
our church to the CORE. That is why when Ted Seeber condemned all
non-Catholics to persecution and death, Paul Tooley came in to lie
claimng that he didn't do that, and then attacked me for exposing him.
They are trying to tell us that is standard behavior for Adventiss and
that I am not one.
Antichrist Andrew then attacked, claiming that by Brother Ted
frequently posting, he has childhood trauma and a dysfunctional home.
All of these said not the slightest word against the man who condemned
them to death.
COMPARE THE ISSUES THE SUPER-TERRORIST IS BRINGING AGAINST THE
ADVENTIST CHURCH WITH WHAT I'M SHIOWING YOU AND SEE WHAT YOU WOULD
PREFER IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!
William Suzanne:
>What facts won't they tell you?
Susan Williams:
Will Adventists tell you that you must protect a man who has condemned
the lives of all non-Catholics? Will they then tell you that a person
who exposes such a person is hateful and Satans child as William
Suzanne, Lamarr Edwards, "Adventist" Paul Tooley and "Adventist"
Andrew have done?
COMPARE THE ISSUES THE SUPER-TERRORIST IS BRINGING AGAINST THE
ADVENTIST CHURCH WITH WHAT I'M SHIOWING YOU AND SEE WHAT YOU WOULD
PREFER IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!
William Suzanne:
>They won't tell you that they consider themselves to be the only,
>true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they
>revere and believe without question has told them that
Susan Williams:
I would tell anyone that. But do you know folks that the major reasn
Rome has shed more blood than any institution on earth was because all
those centuries of the Christian era SHE HAS BEEN SAYING THAT SHE WAS
THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH?? Do you know that she recently published a
public document REAFFIRMING THIS??
Now the man is telling us the Adventist Church is trying to hide the
claim. Rome doesn't hide the claim. Would something smell bad if the
Evangelical community accepts Rome anyway even though her claims to be
the true church always invovles the shedding of much blood to those
who disagree?
Watch the demon work:
William Suzanne:
>"...Satan has taken full possession of the Churches". (Spiritual Gifts
>V.l,p.189-90) They also believe our prayers are an "abomination" to
>God. (Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190).
>That is what they think of you and your church, even if they won't say
>it out loud in public, or to your face.
>
Susan Williams:
Now listen to what the Protestants used to say BEFORE, so that we can
figure out if something has taken possession of them:
"But even with such a great cloud of witnesses, one might be tempted
to ask the following question, 'Has not Rome changed recently?' To
answer this most vital question, I turn once again to the message of
D. Martyn Lloyd Jones:
'Ah, but,' you say, 'has not the Roman Catholic Church changed? You
are simply looking back, you are speaking as if you lived in the 16th
century - don't you realize you are living in the 20th century?
My answer is quite simple. The proudest boast of the Roman Catholic
Church is this, that she never changes, Semper eadem. How can she
change? If she changes she will be admitting that she was wrong in the
past - but she was saying then that she was infallible, and that the
Pope is the Vicar of Christ and that he cannot make a mistake. If she
says that she is capable of change she is denying her central claim!
She does not say that she is changing, and she never will. The Church
of Rome remains the same.
If anything, she is even worse. She has 'added' things to what she
taught in the 16th century, such as Papal infallibility, etc. No,
there is no change in the Church of Rome. And if there ever is one
great world Church, it will be because the Church of Rome has absorbed
all the rest and swallowed them in ignorance!'
=============
William Suzanne:
>They revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, and made this
>statement in their "Ministry" Magazine of Oct. 1981 and have never
>retracted it:
Susan Williams:
What the super-terrorists won't tell you AND WHAT THEY HAVE NOT
RETRACTED! COMPARE THE "CRIMES!":
"If Catholics ever gain a sufficient numerical majority in this
country, religious freedom is at an end. So our enemies say, SO WE
BELIEVE" (The Shepherd of the Valley, official journal of the Bishop
of St Louis, Nov. 23, 1851).
William Suzanne claiming to quote Adventist sources:
>"We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen
>White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the
>Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the
>other".
Susan Williams:
"No man has a right to choose his religion." -- (New York Freeman,
official journal of Bishops Hughes, Jan. 26, 1852).
William Suzanne:
>They won't tell you too much about Ellen G. White at their public
>seminars, but their goal is to bring the person attending to the point
>of conversion and baptism.
>
>Their 2000 baptismal certificate poses questions to which the
>candidate must answer "yes". Question 8 says,
>
>"Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe
>that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the
>remnant church".
>
>If the candidate says "yes" and is baptized, they soon learn that the
>"gift of prophecy" is Ellen G. White's writings. Point 13 has them
>accepting that the SDA Church is the remnant church of Bible Prophecy.
>They have been baptized into an exclusive group, but they don't know
>how exclusive it is, yet!
Susan Williams:
"The church . . . does not, and cannot accept, or in any degree favor,
liberty in the Protestant sense of liberty." -- (Catholic World,
April, 1870.)
"Protestantism has not, and never can have, any right where
Catholicity has triumphed." -- (Catholic Review, June, 1875)
William Suzanne:
>No doubt they will be urged to avail themselves of a "Clear Word
>Bible". This publication of theirs has inserted the words and
>doctrines of Ellen G. White right into the Bible text, insuring that
>the person studying it will have the mind of Ellen G. White.
>
>Slowly, but surely, the new SDA will come to believe these
>extra-biblical doctrines that set the SDA church apart from
>Evangelical Christianity.
Susan Williams:
"Religious Liberty is merely endured UNTIL THE OPPOSITE CAN BE CARRIED
INTO EFFECT WITHOUT PERIL TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH." -- (Rt. Rev.
O'Connor, Bishop of Pittsburgh.)
"The absurd and erroneous doctrines or ravings in defense of liberty
of conscience are a most pestilential error--a pest, of all others,
most to be dreaded in a state." -- Encyclical Letter of Pope Pius IX,
August 15, 1854.
"There is, ere long, to be a state religion in this country, and that
state religion is to be the Roman Catholic. . . The Roman Catholic is
to wield his vote for the purpose of securing Catholic ascendancy in
this country." -- (Father Hecker, Catholic World, July, 1870.)
"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will
fall by the hands of the Catholic clergy." -- Lafayette
"You ask if the Pope were lord over this land and you were in a
minority, what he would do to you? That, we say, would entirely depend
on circumstances. If it would benefit the cause of Catholicism, he
would tolerate you: if expedient, he would imprison, banish you,
probably he might even hang you. But be assured of one thing, he would
never tolerate you for the sake of your glorious principles of Civil
and religious liberty." -- (Rambler, one of the most prominent
Catholic papers of England, Sept., 1851.)
WHICH WOULD YOU WANT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!
How about William Suzanne telling us that ELLEN WHITE, dead for almost
100 years, IS THE ANTICHRIST!! When Christ comes, He will smell like
a rose just ressurrecting Ellen White to punish her for destroying the
earth!!
In His Grace,
Susan Williams
Susan Williams
>
>"Alberich" wrote:
>>
>> From your posts, it seems you are an Adventist. I would hate
>> to think that they were all filled with as much hate as you!
>
>He was formerly an Adventist, but has given himself to the control of demonic
>agencies for the accomplishment of their agenda.
Andrew came to this lying conclusion because I exposed his Catholic
fellow friends who condemned all non-Catholics to extermination. This
made him very hateful and bitter. Alberich has also inherited the
Jesuits disease of ignoring points and questions he knows he dares not
answer and is now following in the curse and jinx of Antichrist
Andrew, who told us that by Brother Ted posting frequently, he has
proven he has had severe childhood trauma and a dysfunctional home.
Since then, Andrew has not ceased posting frequently to address the
emergeny of his Antichrist being exposed.
Antichrist Andrew quoted Ellen White telling me that the lost must not
be confronted with unkind thrusts. He then told us that Shan was
saved and had the love of Christ in his heart, and he keeps telling
everyone I'm lost and then keeps posting unkind and sharp thrusts and
attacks and ignores the obvious points proving he is a servant of the
Antichrist.
> He would again be welcomed
>into church fellowship only upon a thorough conversion to Christ and probably
>a rebaptism;
How does this fake Adventist who gets upset when people who condemn
all non-Catholics to extermnation are exposed knows so much about me?
Protestant documentation tells us the Jesuits are despots as Andrew is
showing here.
>which appears unlikely since he has steadfastly resisted all appeals
>to return to God and to follow the teachings of our Savior.
Andrew resisted appeals to show everyone how exposing the worst of
terrorists is Satanic behavior. Since that time he appeals to
Christ's servants to join his Antichrist.
> However, with God
>all things are possible.
How come then so few of the Jesuits like himself have been reached by
Christ?
> Jesus healed such when He walked among us long ago.
Andrew has rejected all appeals to answer the question as to how many
killers did Christ create. Christ healed them according to him, and
then that must mean that many people Christ healed would also hate
people who expose super-terrorists!
>May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
>
>
>Andrew
Show us where the bible says Christ is with abandoned killers and
liars. I will be convinced then!
In His Grace,
Susan
Susan Williams
<rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"gaffo" <ga...@usenet.net> wrote in message
>news:Uhzrb.2593$ux4.108...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> Truth wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > It is a sad testimony that a professed Atheist, has a greater respect
>> > of life and liberty, and more understanding of the inalienable right of
>> > each to follow the dictates of his own conscience, than many who profess
>> > to believe in, and follow the God who created those rights, and the
>> > country which was founded to uphold the same.
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks for the compliment. humility is what Jesus taught - a value I
>> share with him. too many are arrogant know-alls in the country.
>
>Your last line negate the first and puts you right in with all the
>"know-alls" Thank you for making that clear.
>
>Raymond
Why not say in the beginning that you Jesuits always know what is
clear and beyond debate instead of accusing those who can defeat you
of not allowing others to disagree?
Susan Williams
<someogget...@mailcity.com> wrote:
You mean we really can't disagree with you Jesuits? You mean it is
right to accuse after all? You mean you don't have to think that your
judgments against Raymond can be wrong after all?
>> If we do not get attention then what we do say,
>> is lost.
>
>If the attention we get is condescending in nature, due to our
>overreliance on predictably banal remarks, then what we say is lost
>anyway.
This man finally noticed "predictably banal remarks!" Such remarks
are all over by people like him, but only now he sees it!
>What we say is lost unless we receive not mere attention, but
>respectful attention. Logically fallacious replies, chosen because they
>come easily to mind and seem clever at the time, will not inspire that
>kind of attention.
How is it that the man only notices such remarks now!!???!!!???
>> I 'm glad your feeling friendly right now, does that mean
>> most of the time you do not?
>
>There are aspects of replies which do not inspire friendliness in me. Ad
>hominem attacks are one, irrelevances are another, misrepresentations
>still a third. Since those are common in this newsgroup, my replies are
>often not delivered in a friendly spirit.
But why did you and your cult tell us we had to worship you and we
must not disagree after all? Why did you constantly accuse us of your
training, telling us we are going to have to allow people to disagree
with us???
Now you told us that all non-Catholics must die. Does that mean we
can disagree with you?
€ R.L. Measures
Vestal <someogget...@mailcity.com> wrote:
€ Robbers should be terminated a.s.a.p. because one never knows if they
are armed or not. Humility is a whole nuther ballgame. The street
vendors who were assulted and battered were not robbers.
>
> >>
> >> > If He does, you Catholics and your infallible leader are in some
> >> > deep feces.
> >>
> >> I am not Catholic.
> >
> > € Well excuse me! What then?
>
> I'm currently a bit difficult to categorize. Consider me a disenchanted
> in-the-process-of-renouncing-inerrancy born-again tongue-talking non-
> apostolic non-pentecostal non-denominational non-faith-healing one-God
> whole-Bible John-Dominic-Crossan-despising Christian.
€ Did you read "Jesus, A Revolutionary Biography"?
>Does that clear it
> up?
€ yes
Alberich
<SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:35:12 +0800, "Raymond"
><rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"gaffo" <ga...@usenet.net> wrote in message
>>news:Uhzrb.2593$ux4.108...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>>> Truth wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > It is a sad testimony that a professed Atheist, has a greater respect
>>> > of life and liberty, and more understanding of the inalienable right of
>>> > each to follow the dictates of his own conscience, than many who profess
>>> > to believe in, and follow the God who created those rights, and the
>>> > country which was founded to uphold the same.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks for the compliment. humility is what Jesus taught - a value I
>>> share with him. too many are arrogant know-alls in the country.
>>
>>Your last line negate the first and puts you right in with all the
>>"know-alls" Thank you for making that clear.
>>
>>Raymond
>
>Why not say in the beginning that you Jesuits always know what is
>clear and beyond debate instead of accusing those who can defeat you
>of not allowing others to disagree?
Why not say in the beginning that you have no clue what a Jesuit is so
you can at least stop seeming uneducated; bigoted will take longer to
fix.
Alberich
Joseph Geloso
<SWilliam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>THE DAMNED SUPER-TERRORIST KILLER SPEAKS
1. Why do you shout?
2. I am none of the above. I am not damned, I am not super, I am not a
terrorist, and I am not a killer. So save your emotional ranting. If
you want to reply in a reasonable tone I will answer you, just as I
have been answering someone else from your sect.
Susan Williams
wrote:
Does it seem that educated to understand that you Jesuits told us we
have to understand that people would disagree with us?
Here are some questions school children can figure out, but Jesuits
can't. YOU CAN'T:
============
Here is a link:
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/RomeProtestantsSame.htm
>Not at all!
>From your posts, it seems you are an
>Adventist.
Some may be. Other religions expose the Antichrist also!
>I would hate to think that they were all filled with as
>much hate as you!
Again for the millionth time to your damned soul:
Ok then:
OK:
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/RomeProtestantsSame.htm
You mean this?
>>In His Grace,
>>
>>
>>Susan