A Brief Update on Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000
Phillip Dampier
box now available in many areas from your local cable company. The original
review can be found at:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=KQHh9.279170%24vg.48306613%40twister.ny
roc.rr.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain . Please be aware I now consider the
original review OUT OF DATE and you should rely on this update when
considering the 8000.
A slower-than-anticipated arrival of some updated code within the box has
corrected some of the 8000's most serious problems but issues still remain.
I'll update the current status of the issues reflected in the original
review. This is based on extensive testing of a code update issued in late
October, 2002. A month of testing reveals:
---
"Won't Record Bug" - This was the 8000's most serious flaw. Programming
scheduled to record on an ongoing basis would not consistently record,
regardless of whether the user selected automatic or manual programming. It
generally occured most frequently with daily programming after the first
week to ten days of recording.
Current Status: Fixed with caveats (see corrupted data report below)
---
"Starts Recording and Never Stops Bug" - A user records a single program but
the box never leaves record mode, eventually consuming all available disk
space.
Current Status: Fixed
---
"Box Won't Allow You to Offload Recorded Programming Using the Supplied
RCA-Outputs" - Users are encouraged to archive programming on video tape
before the box runs out of space, but the 8000's external RCA connectors
arrived in homes disabled, subject to a software upgrade or activation by
cable operator.
Current Status: Fixed in some areas, still disabled in others. Call your
local cable operator to complain if still disabled. The coaxial output is
functional, but not as good quality as RCA outputs.
---
"Warning that the box needs both tuners to record two simultaneous scheduled
events bug" - The best way to explain this is to say you are recording
something while watching something else, and now you want to record a third
program. The box will tell you it needs to get you to forget about the show
you are watching - it needs that second tuner to record the second program.
Unfortunately, although the box alerted you to change channels or stop
watching within two minutes, it often wouldn't record that second program
regardless of what you did.
Current Status - Fixed. Box changes channels on you automatically, which is
what it should do to guarantee both shows are recorded.
---
"Recording PPV Programming Requires You to Order Before Scheduling a
Recording"
Current Status - Unknown as I don't use PPV. Any reports from readers?
---
"Program descriptions not transferred to the 8000's recorded program list"
Current Status - Fixed.
---
"No indication of disk space used or remaining space available"
Current Status: Current design of the box does not allow for this feature.
---
"If a program selected for recording at all instances is entered, it will
only record that program on the channel originally entered. You must make
individual program entries for each channel the program appears on."
Current Status: No change
---
"Video Artifacting Present on Recorded Programs"
Current Status: This is reported to be a signal level issue. Call your
local cable company for assistance.
---
"Sluggish response to user commands"
Current Status: Unchanged... the box requires patience as it remains
sluggish to respond to key pressed commands. It may be a memory issue or
demand on the box's CPU. No fix known as of now.
---
NEW ISSUES WITH CURRENT SOFTWARE AND OTHER REFLECTIONS
The software update issued has helped address and correct most of the box's
most serious problems, and moves the box out of what I originally referred
to as "beta-level" to worthy of general consideration. However, with the
good often comes the bad, and although the recent software upgrade did
correct several problems, it also apparently introduced a few new ones:
---
Data Corruption Problems: This is the most irritating new bug and occurs on
two levels. During some software upgrades that took place, my entire
recorded collection of programs was corrupted and had to be deleted because
they were inaccessible. This occured three times, always after an attempted
software change. There was no warning, and whenever I see the box has been
rebooted, I always keep my fingers crossed when accessing my recorded
programs hoping they are still there.
The second data corruption problem results in only partial recordings of
things you program. Recently, I noticed the 8000 botched several days of
back-to-back Law & Order episodes on TNT by only recording portions of each
program. It has also happened to other programs. There is no warning this
is happening until you view your recorded program listing and see shows at
odd lengths (such as 41 minutes, 3 minutes, etc.)
This bug should now be top priority for Scientific Atlanta to correct. It
doesn't happen all the time, but when it does you want to pull your hair
out.
---
Box Crashes: The 8000's level of crashing while accessing menu functions
seems to have increased slightly. The box will lock-up while programming
shows or scrolling through listings, and after about a minute, shut off
completely and reboot. This is a minor annoyance and I cannot trace any
corruption of data to this problem.
---
Other observations: The box still has some issues is properly reflecting
information about scheduled recordings that you edit (while programming the
box). The box will report that a show will only be saved for one day, when
it is actually available until you delete it. Other times, duplicate record
requests show up in the scheduled recordings, and the box doesn't handle
duplicate recordings of the same program very well.
There is still lots of room for interface and design improvements, but I am
hoping the last remaining series of bugs will be the top priority. For
pausing and reviewing live broadcasts, the 8000 is highly recommended and
never has any problems. For those wanting to use the 8000 as a VCR, the
rating for the box on a scale of "trash it," "try it," or "buy it," the
Scientific Explorer 8000 is now a "TRY IT."
I will continue to keep the 8000 in my home and continue to report on new
bug fixes and other upgrades. If your cable company requires you to
purchase the box up-front, choose something else. But if the cable system
rents the box to you, it's a low risk endeavor and may work generally well
for you. Report any issues you do notice with the box to your local cable
company. If a problem is well reported, or a feature requested by a large
number of users, it may get addressed sooner.
If you have the 8000 in your home, what have you noticed?
Ikeboy
I assume you can get one (maybe multiple) from one of the 21 or so
info pages (hold down select for a few seconds then hit info).
I'm on my second 8000. The first one was not reliably recording (just
wouldn't record some shows, they would be removed from the "to be
recorded" list, but didn't show up in the "recorded" list) and my
cable company is just sure it is a hardware problem so they are having
me try a new box. Just picked it up yesterday.
I like the features and the capabilities of the 8000, I just wish I
could trust it.
John Passaniti
"Phillip Dampier" <dam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fthH9.144767$Em.43...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> "No indication of disk space used
> or remaining space available"
>
> Current Status: Current design of the box
> does not allow for this feature.
This is not correct.
The claim is that because recordings have variable compression depending on
if you're recording a digital or analog channel, that they can't show you a
meaningful number. I don't accept this. The compression algorithms have an
upper and lower bound to how compactly video is packed (typically expressed
in bits per second) and these bounds can be shown.
One might take the conservative approach and use the lowest compresson ratio
for a message like "you have at least X minutes left." Or, one might take
the informative approach and state "you have between X and Y minutes left."
Part of the problem is that users have no idea how much disk space is taken
up by their favorite shows. If this information was shown (or available),
then the user could adapt. For example, if I knew that recording a program
typically takes around a gigabyte of disk space, then I can have a
reasonable estimate of how much recording that same show will likely take.
Shawn Barnhart
"John Passaniti" <nn...@JapanIsShinto.com> wrote in message
news:JApH9.145731$Em.43...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Part of the problem is that users have no idea how much disk space is
taken
> up by their favorite shows. If this information was shown (or available),
> then the user could adapt. For example, if I knew that recording a
program
> typically takes around a gigabyte of disk space, then I can have a
> reasonable estimate of how much recording that same show will likely take.
I wonder if in the future when PVR is pervasive if the compressability of a
program won't be taken into account when the production is being designed.
More compressable programs may be kept longer or easier and hence might be
more popular among people that keep them. They might be cheaper or easier
to distribute.
It might even be that they make really popular programs poorly compressable
to discourage collecting them in digital format.
Jamie Town
> news:fthH9.144767$Em.43...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> > "No indication of disk space used
> > or remaining space available"
> >
> > Current Status: Current design of the box
> > does not allow for this feature.
>
> This is not correct.
You'll get lots of responses from Tivo users who will tell you how
it's impossible to determine how much space is "really" avaialble due
to blah, blah, blah. Don't pay any attention to that junk. You're
right. There are many valid ways to represent the available free
space on any PVR.
The most obvious is a % full (or % empty depending on your
philosophical leanings) meter that just gives you a real-time display
of how much space is available at any given moment. Gripes about
"that doesn't take scheduled recordings into account" aside, that
alone would be a very useful piece of information. Even better would
be an approximate calculation of the time available based on the
various recording quality settings available. Even better than that
would be the same thing with breakdowns of how much is available when
the various "okay to delete" programs are taken into account. Even
better would be all of that with breakdowns of the types of programs
stored (don't delete, expired, not yet expired) on the drive. You
could go even farther and let the user step ahead in time to see what
the situation will be in XX hours (or days) based on the current
recording schedule and retention settings.
All of the data needed to determine the values is present on the unit
and it's got the processing power to do the calculations (heck, a
handheld calculator has the processing power to do the calculations).
It should take a good programmer more than a few hours to lay out the
design and a few days to develop a working version.
Basically, what I'm saying is there's no reason not to provide a free
space display unless laziness counts as a reason. :) Sure there are
bigger things to fix now but Tivo should have had this in their first
major revision. They're up to 3.2 now with no sign of ever
implementing this.
Jamie
Phillip Dampier
"Ikeboy" <deik...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:947de93d.02120...@posting.google.com...
It is -NOT- a hardware problem. It's a documented software bug. The
original code loaded in our box that carried all of the problems documented
in the original report I posted in September
(http://groups.google.com/groups?q=scientific+atlanta+8000&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&selm=KQHh9.279170%24vg.48306613%40twister.nyroc.rr.com&rnum=6) was: PVT OS
v6.0.2sp (115) - FLASH v1.80.37a6s9 (0) - SARA v1.80.37a6. If your box has
this code, your cable system needs to update the software, which they can do
electronically over the cable system. The most recent code running in the
8000 box here is: PVT OS v6.0.3sp (6) - FLASH v1.80.43s9 (0) - SARA
v1.80.43. The bugs reported in this original thread apply to that software
revision.
Be aware that during the conversion from the original code to the update,
all of my stored programs were corrupted and were unviewable. So I've
learned not to keep a lot of backlogged recordings on the box because they
could get zapped. I just don't trust the box enough yet. But... things are
improving, so maybe a software revision or two later, these issues will be a
thing of the past.
Ikeboy
>
> It is -NOT- a hardware problem. It's a documented software bug.
I know. I tried to convince the service guy that it couldn't possibly
be a hardware bug, but you know, you have to work through their
service procedures, so I played along. Now I have the hardware swap
out of the way and I can make the service people focus on software.
Thanks for the code levels, now I can check my unit and start hassling
the service people if I don't have the latest and greatest code.
Christian Gingras
I purchased the Explorer 8000 from my local cable provider Videotron
in Quebec, Canada. Couldn't rent it and I waited so long for a PVR
that I just had to buy the day it came out (on November 7th, 2002).
In the first weeks, I have noticed the same bugs you have mentioned.
After a reset of the machine yesterday (it hadn't downloaded the
software patches itself), a lot of the problems are now fixed.
The fact that it shows the next day as the expiration date for all
programs is really annoying but as long as the shows stay there until
I delete them manually, I can live with that for now.
But my biggest gripe about the Explorer 8000 (for now) is the fact
that it returns to the live signal at the end of a program I'm
listening to in PVR mode. For example, if I programmed the Explorer to
record a show from 8 to 9 and I'm watching it with a 15 minute delay,
it goes back to the live signal at 9, even if I'm still watching.
Then, I have to go back to the beginning of the show and use the
Forward button to get back where I was. Very very annoying.
Have you noticed the same thing?
Christian (cgin...@uquebec.ca)
Phillip Dampier
"Christian Gingras" <cgin...@uquebec.ca> wrote in message
news:8916a7d2.02120...@posting.google.com...
> But my biggest gripe about the Explorer 8000 (for now) is the fact
> that it returns to the live signal at the end of a program I'm
> listening to in PVR mode. For example, if I programmed the Explorer to
> record a show from 8 to 9 and I'm watching it with a 15 minute delay,
> it goes back to the live signal at 9, even if I'm still watching.
> Then, I have to go back to the beginning of the show and use the
> Forward button to get back where I was. Very very annoying.
>
> Have you noticed the same thing?
Yes! This is a great point and it's irritating I agree. What is happening
is that the 8000 is dumping the completed program to the hard disk and
closing the file. It apparently cannot continue showing the program once
the recording fragment is written and closed as a complete file. I usually
won't get into a show under these circumstances. I'll watch it when it
finishes.
Christian Gingras
> Yes! This is a great point and it's irritating I agree. What is happening
> is that the 8000 is dumping the completed program to the hard disk and
> closing the file. It apparently cannot continue showing the program once
> the recording fragment is written and closed as a complete file. I usually
> won't get into a show under these circumstances. I'll watch it when it
> finishes.
And that defeats one of the greatest selling arguments of a PVR box. I
would say this is the only major thing bugging me with my Explorer
8000. I can live with all the rest (I didn't have any problems with
programs not being recorded) as long as I'm knowing my cable provider
and SciAtl are doing what they can to correct these issues.
Christian (cgin...@uquebec.ca)
Nobody
news:8916a7d2.02121...@posting.google.com:
I just got an 8000 with the 11/22 firmware and this problem is still there.
Annoying, yes, but relatively minor.
The TiVo I got last week is going back. It's significant benefit is the
completeness of the guide data and the various ways you can search through
it. However, I can't justify the $450 price vs $5/month for the 8000. The
dual tuners in the 8000 are nice, too.
I hope SA adds a wishlist capability to the 8000, even if it's only using
title keywords.
Gary Manuse
Communications). They are aware of it and have told me that they believe it
is a problem with the cable guide and not the Explorer box itself. It has
something to do with the fact that the cable guide is only for one week at a
time and updates itself once ever 24 hours.
It's frustrating, I agree, and I still have no confidence in the reliability
to record using a schedule.
-Gary
Phillip Dampier
"Gary Manuse" <gma...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B47L9.71345$Vz2.15...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> I have reported this problem to my cable provider (Time Warner
> Communications). They are aware of it and have told me that they believe
it
> is a problem with the cable guide and not the Explorer box itself. It has
> something to do with the fact that the cable guide is only for one week at
a
> time and updates itself once ever 24 hours.
> It's frustrating, I agree, and I still have no confidence in the
reliability
> to record using a schedule.
I don't think it is actually the guide itself, but perhaps the 8000's early
feature of not recording programming already on the hard drive (in other
words, if you program the 8000 to record every instance of a show, there is
no reason for it to record the same show twice while being run over again
several hours later.) I personally suspect what happened is that the lack
of program guide details (which is probably what the 8000 used to determine
whether a show was being re-run or not) confused the 8000 into believing
subsequent airings of a show were repeats and should not be recorded. So,
you'd get a 5-7 day run of a show, and then the box would refuse to record
any more instances of that program, thinking they were all just repeats.
That is completely guesswork on my part, though, and should be considered as
such.
I think they disabled that in software updates, because the unit does record
now, although it occasionally glitches up and won't record the whole
program.
Nobody
> I don't think it is actually the guide itself, but perhaps the 8000's
> early feature of not recording programming already on the hard drive
> (in other words, if you program the 8000 to record every instance of a
> show, there is no reason for it to record the same show twice while
> being run over again several hours later.) I personally suspect what
> happened is that the lack of program guide details (which is probably
> what the 8000 used to determine whether a show was being re-run or
> not) confused the 8000 into believing subsequent airings of a show
> were repeats and should not be recorded. So, you'd get a 5-7 day run
> of a show, and then the box would refuse to record any more instances
> of that program, thinking they were all just repeats.
The 8000 does not eliminate duplicates like a TiVo does. Period. It may
in the future, but it does not now.
> That is completely guesswork on my part, though, and should be
> considered as such.
This is the problem with your posts...you don't know what you're talking
about.
Michael
was wierd though, the box displayed r. then numbers counting down.
I'm assuming it was downloading the upgrade (i've never been here when
it did update). Then it started cycling through hex values over and
over. Then it rebooted. The versions are:
PTV OS Dec 15 2002 v6.0.4sp(9)
FLASH: Dec 16 2002 v1.80.44a7s9(0)
SARA v1.80.44a7
I don't know whats new though. A few updates ago I noticed that when
you pressed guide it correctly went to the channel you were on and the
time it was.
"Gary Manuse" <gma...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message news:<B47L9.71345$Vz2.15...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
Captain America
and GI/Motorola boxes, do they have to be flashed physically or does the
cable company actually transmit the signals over the cable and it just
downloads to customer boxes and updates them?
mike...@yahoo.com (Michael) wrote in
news:4816286b.0301...@posting.google.com:
Nobody
news:Xns92FEC1D1D31BC...@216.168.3.44:
> Got a question regarding software/firmware updates and versions on the
> SA and GI/Motorola boxes, do they have to be flashed physically or
> does the cable company actually transmit the signals over the cable
> and it just downloads to customer boxes and updates them?
>
It's automatic...cable co sends it to the box.
Nobody
>
> I don't know whats new though. A few updates ago I noticed that when
> you pressed guide it correctly went to the channel you were on and the
> time it was.
>
It looks like the full descriptions in the guide go out the full week.
Phillip Dampier
"Michael" <mike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4816286b.0301...@posting.google.com...
> I've got the Dec 15 dated upgrade that I think just installed now. It
> was wierd though, the box displayed r. then numbers counting down.
> I'm assuming it was downloading the upgrade (i've never been here when
> it did update). Then it started cycling through hex values over and
> over. Then it rebooted. The versions are:
>
> PTV OS Dec 15 2002 v6.0.4sp(9)
> FLASH: Dec 16 2002 v1.80.44a7s9(0)
> SARA v1.80.44a7
>
> I don't know whats new though. A few updates ago I noticed that when
> you pressed guide it correctly went to the channel you were on and the
> time it was.
This update is designed to fix the corrupted program bug, which came from
the late fall upgrade. The date delivered isn't relevant, but the version
numbers are. The 8000 has been having a problem corrupting recorded
programming and truncating portions of it when saving to disk. They are
trying to address that. Fixed bugs include the most notorious - the won't
record bug that prevented regularly scheduled recordings from working.
The 8000 is still not as responsive to remote control key-presses as I would
like, but the recording feature is finally settling down.
Phillip Dampier
"Captain America" <Cap...@America.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEC1D1D31BC...@216.168.3.44...
> Got a question regarding software/firmware updates and versions on the SA
> and GI/Motorola boxes, do they have to be flashed physically or does the
> cable company actually transmit the signals over the cable and it just
> downloads to customer boxes and updates them?
The cable company transmits updates over the system itself. Every box has
its own unique private network IP address. The box will shut itself off
during a system update and reset itself when complete (you'll know if they
reset the box if it defaults to the lowest channel number on your cable
system when you turn it on - ours here is channel 2).
John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.
> This update is designed to fix the corrupted program bug, which came from
> the late fall upgrade. The date delivered isn't relevant, but the version
> numbers are. The 8000 has been having a problem corrupting recorded
> programming and truncating portions of it when saving to disk. They are
> trying to address that. Fixed bugs include the most notorious - the won't
> record bug that prevented regularly scheduled recordings from working.
>
> The 8000 is still not as responsive to remote control key-presses as I would
> like, but the recording feature is finally settling down.
I guess I am glad that it is working for someone, but as far as
I am concerned this system remains a piece of junk, and the people
who programmed it should be fired for gross incompetence.
I got my Explorer 8000 in late November, and it has been incredibly
irritating. It works just enough to get you hooked, then fails
catastrophically as soon as you start relying on it.
The most frustrating bugs seem to show up when you ask it to record
a program every week, and that time slot is pre-empted for a different
show that runs longer. This creates multiple scheduled recordings of
the longer show that cannot be deleted. Trying to delete them so
that you can actually use the system results in a system crash.
Shows changing time slots also seems to create multiple scheduled
recordings of unwanted programs that cannot usually be deleted.
Doing too much changing to the program lists also seems to cause
frequent crashes.
The system also seems to decide arbitrarily when it will record
scheduled programs and when it will not. I think my wife is going
to chew my head off for not noticing that it decided not to record
"Alias" last night in time to recover.
The menu design is also weird, with a fair number of "you can't get
there from here" features. For example, if you are playing a show
from the list, you cannot get back to the standard menu that shows
up when you select a program from the list. This means that you
cannot erase or block the program, or start playing from the beginning,
without going into the list, starting a different show, then going
back to the list and selecting the original show.
The system has crappy recovery. If it reboots during a scheduled
recording, it just ignores the remainder of the show. So instead
of losing 3-4 minutes out of the middle during a reboot, you lose
everything from the crash to the end of the show.
I foolishly thought that I was saving $400 with this box, and that
this would provide "one stop shopping" for cable and internet
(I am a happy RoadRunner customer.) I really don't want to deal
with the ugliness of trying to coordinate a Tivo and a Scientific
Atlanta set-top box, so maybe it is time to give a hard look at
bailing out on cable, doing DirectTV with Tivo and switching from
RoadRunner to DSL....
MegaZone
>(I am a happy RoadRunner customer.) I really don't want to deal
>with the ugliness of trying to coordinate a Tivo and a Scientific
>Atlanta set-top box, so maybe it is time to give a hard look at
I have 2 TiVos and 2 Scientific Atlanta Explorer 3200 cable boxes for
Digital Cable from Charter Communications. I have had *0* problems
with the setup - except for once when Charter apparently upgraded the
boxes and that rebooted them. They came back in standby, not on, but
fortunately I noticed before evening when I would've missed a number
of shows. I only lost a couple of shows from mid-day that I wasn't
too concerned about.
This setup actually works better than my old place where I had
Motorola boxes and AT&T Broadband. Then I'd have the rare channel
error and I had to use a slow change speed. Now I use Fast and have
yet to experience an error.
-MZ, CISSP #3762, RHCE #806199299900541
--
<URL:mailto:mega...@megazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me..
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/> <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris
Beth Friedman
Ph.D.), <963a1d45.03011...@posting.google.com>, wrote:
>I really don't want to deal
>with the ugliness of trying to coordinate a Tivo and a Scientific
>Atlanta set-top box, so maybe it is time to give a hard look at
>bailing out on cable, doing DirectTV with Tivo and switching from
>RoadRunner to DSL....
While I think switching to DirecTV is the way to go (switched a year
ago and never looked back), my standalone TiVo with the Scientific
Atlanta set-top box wasn't that much of a problem. I think in the
seven months I had it, it lost perhaps three shows by not switching
properly. It made surfing live TV awfully tedious, but with a TiVo
you don't need to surf live TV very often.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Michael
> "Phillip Dampier" <dam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<7EKT9.131065$eq2.28...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
> > This update is designed to fix the corrupted program bug, which came from
> > the late fall upgrade. The date delivered isn't relevant, but the version
> > numbers are. The 8000 has been having a problem corrupting recorded
> > programming and truncating portions of it when saving to disk. They are
> > trying to address that. Fixed bugs include the most notorious - the won't
> > record bug that prevented regularly scheduled recordings from working.
> >
> > The 8000 is still not as responsive to remote control key-presses as I would
> > like, but the recording feature is finally settling down.
>
> I guess I am glad that it is working for someone, but as far as
> I am concerned this system remains a piece of junk, and the people
> who programmed it should be fired for gross incompetence.
>
> I got my Explorer 8000 in late November, and it has been incredibly
> irritating. It works just enough to get you hooked, then fails
> catastrophically as soon as you start relying on it.
>
> The most frustrating bugs seem to show up when you ask it to record
> a program every week, and that time slot is pre-empted for a different
> show that runs longer. This creates multiple scheduled recordings of
> the longer show that cannot be deleted. Trying to delete them so
> that you can actually use the system results in a system crash.
> Shows changing time slots also seems to create multiple scheduled
> recordings of unwanted programs that cannot usually be deleted.
If you set it up to record all episodes but you don't really want all
episodes you can't delete just one. It seems to link them all
together and thinks that you want to delete the whole set. What I do
is actually go in and select each one to record. I don't have any
faith in the record all episodes.
> Doing too much changing to the program lists also seems to cause
> frequent crashes.
I just reboot mine once a week or 2. Before going to bed on sunday,
pull the plug, wait a few, plug it back in and go to bed. Shouldn't
have to, but helps. Seems to be many memory leaks in the software.
The overall feel gets slower and slower if you don't force it to
reboot often.
> The system also seems to decide arbitrarily when it will record
> scheduled programs and when it will not. I think my wife is going
> to chew my head off for not noticing that it decided not to record
> "Alias" last night in time to recover.
I have stuff setup to record everyday and I've never had it fail to
record anything.
> The menu design is also weird, with a fair number of "you can't get
> there from here" features. For example, if you are playing a show
> from the list, you cannot get back to the standard menu that shows
> up when you select a program from the list. This means that you
> cannot erase or block the program, or start playing from the beginning,
> without going into the list, starting a different show, then going
> back to the list and selecting the original show.
When you are playing just hit stop. It'll go to the menu where you
can erase, start from beginning etc. If you don't want to do anything
hit play and it'll keep going.
Phillip Dampier
"John D. McCalpin, Ph.D." <jo...@mccalpin.com> wrote in message
news:963a1d45.03011...@posting.google.com...
> "Phillip Dampier" <dam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<7EKT9.131065$eq2.28...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
> > This update is designed to fix the corrupted program bug, which came
from
> > the late fall upgrade. The date delivered isn't relevant, but the
version
> > numbers are. The 8000 has been having a problem corrupting recorded
> > programming and truncating portions of it when saving to disk. They are
> > trying to address that. Fixed bugs include the most notorious - the
won't
> > record bug that prevented regularly scheduled recordings from working.
> >
> a program every week, and that time slot is pre-empted for a different
> show that runs longer. This creates multiple scheduled recordings of
> the longer show that cannot be deleted. Trying to delete them so
> that you can actually use the system results in a system crash.
> Shows changing time slots also seems to create multiple scheduled
> recordings of unwanted programs that cannot usually be deleted.
These were all hair-pulling experiences for me over the summer. I think you
might have earlier software in your box. Most of these issues were
corrected in the fall here in western NY.
> Doing too much changing to the program lists also seems to cause
> frequent crashes.
Ditto.
> The system also seems to decide arbitrarily when it will record
> scheduled programs and when it will not. I think my wife is going
> to chew my head off for not noticing that it decided not to record
> "Alias" last night in time to recover.
Double ditto. This was the most infuriating bug of all. With me, it was
Oxygen's Sunday Night Sex Show. The 8000 recorded it fine for about a week,
and then refused to record it again. This was fixed for us in November with
a software update.
> The menu design is also weird, with a fair number of "you can't get
> there from here" features. For example, if you are playing a show
> from the list, you cannot get back to the standard menu that shows
> up when you select a program from the list. This means that you
> cannot erase or block the program, or start playing from the beginning,
> without going into the list, starting a different show, then going
> back to the list and selecting the original show.
You definitely have old software code in your box. I was complaining about
this in August. It was corrected in September. Your cable operator needs
to get on the ball and update your box with the latest code.
Even today, there are still some problems with the 8000 (my VCR's are more
reliable, if less convenient), but things are world's better than they were
in the summer.
Phillip Dampier
> jo...@mccalpin.com (John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.) wrote in message
news:<963a1d45.03011...@posting.google.com>...
> If you set it up to record all episodes but you don't really want all
> episodes you can't delete just one. It seems to link them all
> together and thinks that you want to delete the whole set. What I do
> is actually go in and select each one to record. I don't have any
> faith in the record all episodes.
Yes... and this is still a problem in the current software revision. An
option to delete one/all scheduled recordings needs to be added.
> I just reboot mine once a week or 2. Before going to bed on sunday,
> pull the plug, wait a few, plug it back in and go to bed. Shouldn't
> have to, but helps. Seems to be many memory leaks in the software.
> The overall feel gets slower and slower if you don't force it to
> reboot often.
It gets slower the more you store on it. It is definitely the most sluggish
box I've ever used.
== sam ==
it, generally, until yesterday. yes, it's sluggish.. yes, it does
some hinky things when you're trying to move from one channel to
another or scan a recorded show within 30 seconds plus or minus of the
box kicking in for a scheduled recording. if you're unwary enough to
be ff'ing a recording just as the box is about to record a scheduled
program, you can absolutely count on scanning waaaay past the
commercial breaks and into your show so you have back up again because
the controls lock up and you can't do anything. but the keypresses
are usually in the buffer and you end up making it worse if you keep
pressing. weird.
.. but now i'm getting an ugly block on the screen when i try to
access the 'list'.. "disk trouble - unrecoverable write error". has
anyone else had this? they are 'sending someone out' to fix it. i
work 12hr shift three or four days at a stretch and rely on this
stupid thing since i otherwise watch no tv at all. i've watched
pretty much nothing but recorded shows (in one medium or another) for
years because of this shift i work. i'm finally getting a day off and
i'm betting there will be nothing on the disk once they've fixed it.
damn. there goes my free evening. guess i'll have to go out!
Nobody
@posting.google.com:
Just go to the local office and swap boxes...that's all the tech will do
anyway.
Sandman
> I've got the Dec 15 dated upgrade that I think just installed now. It
> was wierd though, the box displayed r. then numbers counting down.
> I'm assuming it was downloading the upgrade (i've never been here when
> it did update). Then it started cycling through hex values over and
> over. Then it rebooted. The versions are:
>
> PTV OS Dec 15 2002 v6.0.4sp(9)
> FLASH: Dec 16 2002 v1.80.44a7s9(0)
> SARA v1.80.44a7
>
> I don't know whats new though. A few updates ago I noticed that when
> you pressed guide it correctly went to the channel you were on and the
> time it was.
>
Is Dec 16th the latest flash on this box? Personally, I'm not a big
TV freak so I don't think I need Tivo, but I do like to record a show
or two. This box is frustrating when trying to schedule a recording
and the thing crashes. I get about 1 - 2 crashes a week. Coming from
someone who watches approx. 5 hours of TV a week, that seems like a
LOT, No?
I may try what someone else suggested and reboot the thing once a week
to see if I can nip it in the bud. It would be nice if they could
make the guide more user friendly and more robust. How annoying it is
that changing channels takes so long. Feels like you are working on
an old 286 computer.
Also, has anyone figured out a good "Commercial Skip" procedure? I
Hit the triple speed FF and count silently to 6. By the time I stop,
I have to RW about a second. Not great, but Time warner said they
won't add a commercial skip feature.
B.
Phillip Dampier
"Sandman" <crumb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3df78674.03012...@posting.google.com...
> I may try what someone else suggested and reboot the thing once a week
> to see if I can nip it in the bud. It would be nice if they could
> make the guide more user friendly and more robust. How annoying it is
> that changing channels takes so long. Feels like you are working on
> an old 286 computer.
The unplugging of the box can help make it a bit more responsive to channel
changing, and the like, but I haven't found it reduces box crashes. Also,
the more left on the box's hard drive, the slower the box will act. It
seems more related to number of items in the recorded menu, not the actual
length of the material recorded. I suspect the CPU and internal memory in
underpowered in an effort to keep costs down.
> Also, has anyone figured out a good "Commercial Skip" procedure? I
> Hit the triple speed FF and count silently to 6. By the time I stop,
> I have to RW about a second. Not great, but Time warner said they
> won't add a commercial skip feature.
Time Warner cannot add a commercial skip feature because their entertainment
properties howled in protest about the prospect of people skipping
commercials. Box manufacturers who do have a commercial skip button are
being sued by some in the industry, and at least a handful of execs accuse
users who bypass commercials of engaging in theft. Yeah, right. Over time,
you get a feel for commercial length and can get pretty good at predicting
the end of a spot set. A usual clue is to watch for program promos. In
most cases, a network promotes upcoming shows in 15 second spots just before
getting back to the program. When you see one, stop fast forwarding and you
should find your show will resume as soon as that promo ends. The only
exception to this is when a network runs a promo just before opening up what
is known as a local avail. That means local commercials inserted either by
your local station or cable system. Most are one minute or a
minute-and-a-half in length and the program usually resumes after they end
(local stations usually run a news or weather five second teaser spot
"brrr... it's cold out there... weather tonight at 11" right before the show
resumes).
Phillip Dampier
"== sam ==" <n...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5ba6dea3.03011...@posting.google.com...
> .. but now i'm getting an ugly block on the screen when i try to
> access the 'list'.. "disk trouble - unrecoverable write error". has
> anyone else had this?
The hard drive in your box is defective. The box should be swapped out.
Another early warning sign of impending drive failure is a grinding or
whining noise (like someone running a buzz saw off in the distance).
A local cable installer told me that they have been swapping these boxes out
regularly, but for the wrong reasons. Apparently software problems within
the box reported to the company result in a simple swap out of the box,
which of course doesn't solve the problem at all. The guy I spoke with said
they weren't well versed on the 8000 anyway.
A hard drive warning message is clearly a hardware fault, however.
michel
crumb...@yahoo.com (Sandman) wrote:
I think that the Dec 16th is the latest flash. My unit upgrade earlier
this week (in Montreal, through Videotron). There was an undocumented
Commercial Skip, but the newest flash seems to have obliterated it.
Check out the yahoo group dedicated to the 8000 (well, dedicated to
complaining about it most of the time ;)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/explorer_8000/
Michel