Copper & Alzheimer's Disease
Ian Goddard
zinc, copper, and mercury) as possibly playing important roles in
Alzheimer's disease. This latest study sheds light on copper:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
Copper link to Alzheimer's disease
13:58 12 August 03
Shaoni Bhattacharya
Copper may increase the growth of the protein clumps in the brain that
are a trademark of Alzheimer's disease, according to a new US study on
rabbits.
Researchers first noticed that the rabbits they use to model
Alzheimer's disease developed fewer plaques in their brains when they
drank distilled water rather than tap water. These insoluble plaques,
generated in the rabbits via a high-cholesterol diet, are a trademark
of the degenerative illness.
The tap water contained significant amounts of copper, so Larry
Sparks, at the Sun Health Institute in Sun City, Arizona, and Bernard
Schreurs, at West Virginia University, then gave the rabbits distilled
water spiked with copper supplements.
These rabbits developed significantly more plaques than those drinking
only distilled water. They also suffered dramatically poorer memories
in complex tests.
Two-step process
"We believe that this is a two-step process," Sparks told New
Scientist. "Cholesterol causes overproduction of Alzheimer's proteins
and then copper inhibits the clearance of beta-amyloid [a
plaque-inducing protein] from the brain to the blood."
"The most striking thing was probably the fact we got full blown
plaques in the brains of [these rabbits] which were regionally
distributed similarly to Alzheimer's," he says.
Harriet Millward, deputy chief executive of the UK's Alzheimer's
Research Trust, says a link between copper and Alzheimer's has been
suggested before but that research so far has been contradictory.
"These are certainly interesting results - but we still need more
research," she told New Scientist. She also notes that using
cholesterol-fed rabbits as a model for Alzheimer's disease is a "very
novel".
Memory deficit
In the latest experiments, the cholesterol-fed rabbits were given
water laced with 0.12 parts per million copper, one tenth of US safety
limit for humans. Three-quarters of the rabbits showed senile
plaque-like deposits in their brains after 10 weeks. These rabbits
also showed an 80 per cent deficit in memory in complex conditioning
tests.
The plaques were not found in the brains of animals given pure
distilled water and were rare among those drinking tap water.
"Although we can only speculate about how the effects of copper
consumption in cholesterol-fed rabbits relate to those in humans, it
is of note that the levels of copper ... that induced beta-amyloid and
senile plaque-like structures are well below those considered safe for
humans," Sparks and Schreurs write in Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences:
Sparks says the pair are now working on understanding the mechanism by
which copper might cause beta-amyloid to accumulate in the brain.
Ashley Bush and colleagues at Harvard Medical School have previously
proposed a different mechanism by which metals like copper and zinc
could cause Alzheimer's (New Scientist print edition, 3 August 2002).
They have suggested that the metals may cause beta-amyloid to turn
into a rogue enzyme, catalysing the production of hydrogen peroxide,
which then damages brain cells.
Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
(DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1832769100)
Also see:
Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
Iron and Alzheimer's disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
Mercury and Alzheimer's disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com
http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
"To lengthen thy life, lessen thy meals." Ben Franklin
Ongoing CR-monkey-study update: "In the monkeys...those on
reduced feeding since the study started are dying at a rate
that is about half that of the monkeys receiving a full food
ration." Associated Press: Eating less may extend human life.
August 1, 2002 : http://www.msnbc.com/news/788746.asp?0si=-
Ian Goddard
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
The abstract:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1
Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 10.1073/pnas.1832769100
Trace amounts of copper in water induce beta-amyloid plaques and
learning deficits in a rabbit model of Alzheimer's disease
[authors and affiliations cut for brevity, see link above]
Despite the crucial role played by cholesterol and copper in nutrition
and normal brain function, recent evidence indicates that they may
both be important factors in the etiology of Alzheimer's disease (AD).
Here we provide critical evidence for the role of cholesterol and
copper in AD by showing that the addition of trace amounts of copper
(0.12 ppm) to water given to cholesterol-fed rabbits can induce
beta-amyloid (Abeta) accumulation, including senile plaque-like
structures in the hippocampus and temporal lobe, and can significantly
retard the ability of rabbits to learn a difficult trace conditioning
task. The Abeta deposits do not affect the ability of rabbits to
detect or respond to the training stimuli nor to learn a simpler delay
conditioning task. Trace amounts of copper in drinking water may
influence clearance of Abeta from the brain at the level of the
interface between the blood and cerebrovasculature and combined with
high cholesterol may be a key component to the accumulation of Abeta
in the brain, having a significant impact on learning and memory.
Cholesterol-fed rabbits have at least 12 pathological markers seen in
AD, suggesting that the cholesterol-fed rabbit is a good animal model
for studying AD.
Nightwing
Just wondering.
RArmant
> A steady stream of research points to heavy metals (aluminum, iron,
> zinc, copper, and mercury) as possibly playing important roles in
> Alzheimer's disease. This latest study sheds light on copper:
>
> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
J Am Geriatr Soc. 2003 Aug;51(8):1143-1148.
Current Status of Metals as Therapeutic Targets in Alzheimer's
Disease.
Finefrock AE, Bush AI, Doraiswamy PM.
Department of Psychiatry, Duke University Medical Center, Durham,
North Carolina; Laboratory for Oxidation Biology Genetics and Aging
Unit and Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School,
Massachusetts General Hospital, Charlestown, Massachusetts; and
Departments of Psychiatry and Medicine (Geriatrics) and The Center for
the Study of Aging and Human Development, Duke University Medical
Center, Durham, North Carolina.
There is accumulating evidence that interactions between beta-amyloid
and copper, iron, and zinc are associated with the pathophysiology of
Alzheimer's disease (AD). A significant dyshomeostasis of copper,
iron, and zinc has been detected, and the mismanagement of these
metals induces beta-amyloid precipitation and neurotoxicity. Chelating
agents offer a potential therapeutic solution to the neurotoxicity
induced by copper and iron dyshomeostasis. Currently, the copper and
zinc chelating agent clioquinol represents a potential therapeutic
route that may not only inhibit beta-amyloid neurotoxicity, but may
also reverse the accumulation of neocortical beta-amyloid. A Phase II
double-blind clinical trial of clioquinol with B12 supplementation
will be published soon, and the results are promising. This article
summarizes the role of transition metals in amyloidgenesis and reviews
the potential promise of chelation therapy as a treatment for AD.
PMID: 12890080
Ian Goddard
>
>Researchers first noticed that the rabbits they use to model
>Alzheimer's disease developed fewer plaques in their brains when they
>drank distilled water rather than tap water. These insoluble plaques,
>generated in the rabbits via a high-cholesterol diet, are a trademark
>of the degenerative illness.
An important take-home detail in the study above was the association
between distilled water and reduced Abeta accumulation. The following
abstract appears to refer to the same rabbit study prior to isolation
of copper as the likely causal agent. The following abstract
concludes:
"These findings suggest that water quality may impact
on human health in the setting of increased circulating
cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
J Alzheimers Dis. 2002 Dec;4(6):523-9.
Water quality has a pronounced effect on cholesterol-induced
accumulation of Alzheimer amyloid beta (Abeta) in rabbit brain.
Sparks DL, Lochhead J, Horstman D, Wagoner T, Martin T.
Sun Health Research Institute, Sun City, Arizona 85351, USA.
Increased circulating cholesterol is known to promote risk of coronary
artery disease. It is now emerging that cholesterol promotes
production and accumulation of amyloid beta (Abeta) deposited in the
hallmark pathologic lesion of Alzheimer's disease (AD), the senile
plaque, perhaps by shifting away from normal metabolism of amyloid
beta protein precursor (AbetaPP) to beta. Previous studies employing
the cholesterol-fed rabbit model of AD demonstrated that induction of
AD-like Abeta accumulation in brain could be reversed by
co-administration of cholesterol lowering drugs or removing
cholesterol, prompted initiation of an AD Cholesterol-Lowering
(Statin) Treatment Trial. We now present data that identify a
previously unrecognized role for dietary water quality on the severity
of neuropathology induced by elevated cholesterol. Neuronal
accumulation of Abeta induced by increased circulating concentrations
of cholesterol in the New Zealand white rabbit is attenuated when
distilled drinking water is administered compared to use of tap water.
The numbers of neurons in cholesterol-fed rabbits that exhibited Abeta
immunoreactivity, relative to normal chow-fed controls, increased
approximately 2.5 fold among animals on tap water but only
approximately 1.9 fold among animals on distilled water. This yielded
a statistically significant approximately 28% reduction due to the use
of distilled water. In addition, the subjectively assessed intensity
of neuronal Abeta immunoreactivity was consistently reduced among
cholesterol-fed rabbits allowed distilled drinking water compared to
cholesterol-fed rabbits on tap water. As intensity of antibody
immunoreactivity is likely related to concentration of antigen, the
identified difference among cholesterol-fed rabbits allowed distilled
drinking water may hold greater importance than a significant
reduction in numbers of affected neurons. The effect on neuronal Abeta
immunoreactivity intensity was observable among cholesterol-fed
rabbits reared and allowed tap water when performing studies in three
distinct locales. Pilot data suggest the possibility of increased
clearance of Abeta from the brain, identified as increased blood
levels, among cholesterol-fed rabbits administered distilled water
compared to animals on tap water. The agent(s) occurring in tap water,
excluded by distillation, promoting accumulation of neuronal Abeta
immunoreactivity is(are) yet undisclosed, but arsenic, manganese,
aluminum, zinc, mercury, iron and nitrate have tentatively been
excluded because they were not identifiable (below detection limits)
in the tap water of the three locales where the cholesterol-induced
neuropathologic difference was observable. These findings suggest that
water quality may impact on human health in the setting of increased
circulating cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
life-style change that could be of benefit in AD.
PMID: 12515903 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Tumbleweed
news:5imojvg7epf7fe7pr...@4ax.com...
> >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
> >
> >Researchers first noticed that the rabbits they use to model
> >Alzheimer's disease developed fewer plaques in their brains when they
> >drank distilled water rather than tap water. These insoluble plaques,
> >generated in the rabbits via a high-cholesterol diet, are a trademark
> >of the degenerative illness.
> http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1
>
> An important take-home detail in the study above was the association
> between distilled water and reduced Abeta accumulation. The following
> abstract appears to refer to the same rabbit study prior to isolation
> of copper as the likely causal agent. The following abstract
> concludes:
>
> "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
> on human health in the setting of increased circulating
> cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
> life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
>
>
<snip>
*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a rabbit
in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids, this
would be a close to impossible task.
--
Tumbleweed
Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)
Tim Tyler
: "Ian Goddard" <igod...@erols.mon> wrote in message
:> >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045 [...]
:> "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
:> on human health in the setting of increased circulating
:> cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
:> life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
: *Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
: impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
: lifetime.
Ingesting more mineral-deficient water sounds reasonably doable,
though - provided you can locate a reasonable source.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ t...@tt1.org
Ian Goddard
>> "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
>> on human health in the setting of increased circulating
>> cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
>> life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
>>
>
>*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
>impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
>lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a rabbit
>in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids, this
>would be a close to impossible task.
IAN: It's not an all-or-nothing situation. Given that you should
drink several cups of water every day, try to make them distilled
water. Distilled water can be purchased in most grocery stores; or
preferably, distill your own water. Coincidently I just purchased
the 1600 model non-electric distiller from http://WaterWise.com .
Look for distillers without aluminum parts. I purchased my first
distiller from Sears, and I believe the steam-collection coil was
aluminum. That distiller lasted only about two years. Whereas the
1600 from Water Wise uses your stove to heat the water, my unit
that eventually broke self-heated. I like the 1600 model because
it could last forever and contains no aluminum parts. The amount
of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons of water
is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have otherwise
been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
"Our greatest illusion is to believe that we are what
we think ourselves to be." Henri Amiel (1821-1881)
Tim Tyler
: "Tumbleweed" <tumblew...@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:
:>> "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
:>> on human health in the setting of increased circulating
:>> cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
:>> life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
:>
:>*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
:>impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
:>lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a rabbit
:>in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids, this
:>would be a close to impossible task.
: IAN: It's not an all-or-nothing situation. Given that you should
: drink several cups of water every day, try to make them distilled
: water. Distilled water can be purchased in most grocery stores; or
: preferably, distill your own water. [...]
: The amount of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons
: of water is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have
: otherwise been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
The body needs minerals to live. Too few are as bad as too many.
Distilled water seems controversial. Here's what the naysayers say:
Why Purified Water is Bad For You
http://watershed.net/purified.htm
Tumbleweed
"Tim Tyler" <t...@tt1.org> wrote in message news:HJnJD...@bath.ac.uk...
But that isnt comparable to only ingesting pure water, which the rabbits
did. For all we know, even 10% non-distilled might destroy any effect
(assuming that you can replicate from rabbits to people)
Tumbleweed
<snip>
> The amount
> of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons of water
> is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have otherwise
> been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
>
those minerals. The unknown q is, how much is too much and how little is not
enough.
Ian Goddard
>: The amount of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons
>: of water is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have
>: otherwise been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
>
>The body needs minerals to live. Too few are as bad as too many.
>
>Distilled water seems controversial. Here's what the naysayers say:
>
>Why Purified Water is Bad For You
>http://watershed.net/purified.htm
IAN: Yeah, for that reason I add trace-mineral drops to distilled
water. Also, distilled has only been a PART of my water intake,
which is mostly spring water. Of course some tap gets through
since you usually end up cooking with tap. I've not been found
to have mineral deficiencies in any blood tests. But for those
on a calorie-restricted diet, you've got to be careful. Thanks
for the reminder and the link. Can you find anything related to
this via PubMed? If I had Alzheimer's, given the studies cited
in this thread, I'd probably aim for drinking mostly distilled.
"The more restrictions and prohibitions in the world,
the poorer people get." Lao Tzu (Tao Te Ching)
Arto Raiskio
"Tumbleweed" wrote
> Try living without that 'junk' and see how far you get. You need some of
> those minerals. The unknown q is, how much is too much and how little is
not
> enough.
your reply would appear to imply you do not comprehend the difference
between ionized, colloidal format of minerals vs. non-diffusible portion of
minerals.
couple items in abundance in common city water tap:
Lead-
Lead is absorbed into the body through the lungs, skin, and GI tract. When
it reaches the blood, the great majority of the lead is absorbed into the
red blood cells where it binds to hemoglobin and other chemicals. From the
blood, it is dispersed through the tissues, but most of the lead is
eventually stored in skeletal bone and can prevent calcium from entering and
depositing in bone.
Mercury-
Acute and chronic mercury poisoning affects the kidneys, central nervous
system, and the gastrointestinal tract. The three telltale symptoms of
mercury poisoning are impaired articulation, irregularity of muscular
action, and constricted visual fields. Mercury poisoning through chronic
exposure to metallic and inorganic forms of mercury generally produce
nervousness, lassitude, tremor, and mucous membrane irritation. Inorganic
mercury poisoning is associated primarily with peripheral effects, including
gastroenteritis and tubular nephritis, whereas organic compounds
predominantly affect the central nervous system (CNS), which may be severe
and irreversible.
Mercury can also render our sulfahydryl system (SH) defenseless. The SH
group is our first-line defense against free radicals entering the body.
Although mercury does not destroy or lower the total number of SH groups, it
can render them virtually inactive, thereby opening the door for increased
free radical activity and increase cellular damage caused by increased,
uncontrolled oxidative reactions.
ada
Do you know if reverse osmosis system is any good?
Thank you,
ada
Tim Tyler
: Can you find anything related to this via PubMed?
My link came from:
http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=210005
Perusing the other documents that references produced:
http://www.newtreatments.org/doc/WisdomExperience/107
...which is the results of someone else's medline search on the topic.
They seem better at searching than I am - though overall, material on the
topic seems scarse.
Tumbleweed
"Arto Raiskio" <arto.r...@suomenposti.com> wrote in message
news:bhj6ff$5hoj$1...@ID-102906.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Tumbleweed" wrote
> > Try living without that 'junk' and see how far you get. You need some of
> > those minerals. The unknown q is, how much is too much and how little is
> not
> > enough.
>
> your reply would appear to imply you do not comprehend the difference
> between ionized, colloidal format of minerals vs. non-diffusible portion
of
> minerals.
Dont try and be smart, maybe its in a compound, maybe its an ion, maybe its
particles, whatever, it will be left behind by distilling which is what the
discussion was about (what was left after distilling). Besides which, if its
in the water it can get into your body whatever form it is in the water
though in soem forms it might get in easier.
> couple items in abundance in common city water tap:
>
<snip scare paragraphs about effects of ultra-high concentrations
(relatively) of elements>
Define 'abundance' and 'common'. These are worldwide groups.
Ian Goddard
>Ian hi,
>
>Do you know if reverse osmosis system is any good?
IAN: The book "Water, The Ultimate Cure" by Steve Meyerowitz
says reverse osmosis extracts most pollutants including particulate,
matter, lead, mercury, radium, and uranium. But it also says it can
NOT remove toxic gases, chloroform, phenol, THMs, bacteria, viruses,
some pesticides or organic compounds of low molecular weight. It also
says reverse osmosis wastes 6 gallons of input water for every gallon
of purified water; membrane replacement is costly; requires post and
pre carbon filters; plumber is required for instillation; and water
quality diminishes as the membrane ages. Distillation is better.
The text generally disagrees with the views expressed on the page
Tim initially cited that cautioned against distilled water. It says
distilled water can be balanced (or reionized) by simply adding a few
grains of rice to a gallon which it says is better than spring water,
the contents of which may be unknown. It also says, "distilled water
cannot attract organically bound minerals from our bones or cells."
It also doubts that inorganic minerals in nondistilled water can
be used by the body and quotes Dr Paul Bragg: "You can no more
digest inorganic minerals than you can dirt." Is that true?
I've never been able to find (and haven't spent a lot of time
searching for) evidence supporting claims about the superiority
of organic (colloidal) versus inorganic minerals. If anyone has
scientifically valid evidence on that, please post it. The book
I cite here came free with the distillation unit I bought, the
title of which calls for caution regarding the claims therein.
Most claims about water-cures and such strike me as quackery.
http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
"To practice justice is to practice liberty." Simon Bolivar
Ian Goddard
> The text generally disagrees with the views expressed on the page
> Tim initially cited that cautioned against distilled water. It says
> distilled water can be balanced (or reionized) by simply adding a few
> grains of rice to a gallon which it says is better than spring water,
> the contents of which may be unknown. It also says, "distilled water
> cannot attract organically bound minerals from our bones or cells."
> It also doubts that inorganic minerals in nondistilled water can
> be used by the body and quotes Dr Paul Bragg: "You can no more
> digest inorganic minerals than you can dirt." Is that true?
Here's Doctor Weil's take on water distillation:
Is drinking distilled water dangerous? ...
http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cda.html-command=TodayQA-questionId=21181
David Wright
Tumbleweed <tumblew...@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:
>"Ian Goddard" <igod...@erols.mon> wrote in message
>news:u9mpjv4p25rn2qss7...@4ax.com...
><snip>
>> The amount
>> of residue removed by distillation from a couple gallons of water
>> is remarkable. When you realize that junk would have otherwise
>> been inside you, you actually see the case for distillation.
>>
>Try living without that 'junk' and see how far you get. You need some of
>those minerals. The unknown q is, how much is too much and how little is not
>enough.
Drinking water is not a significant source of most minerals, with a
few minor exceptions like fluoride, which many people think is a
horrible deadly poison and shouldn't be in the water anyway.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"I think we're on the trail of something absolutely mediocre."
-- Billy Wilder to Walter Matthau
ada
Thank you, I appreciate the info. I agree with a point that you raised
earlier saying that it doesn't have to be "all-or-nothing situation".
(Dr. Weil seems to be in a good health;-)
Regards,
ada
galya
> Tim Tyler <t...@tt1.org> wrote:
> Can you find anything related to
> this via PubMed? If I had Alzheimer's, given the studies cited
> in this thread, I'd probably aim for drinking mostly distilled.
Ian and Tim,
In his answer, Dr. Weil says the following (from the link that Ian
posted):
‘'While it's true that distillation removes minerals as well as
various contaminants from water, we don't know that the human body can
readily absorb minerals from water. We get our minerals from food, not
water. By one manufacturer's estimate, you would have to drink 676
eight-ounce glasses of tap water in Boston to reach the RDA for
calcium''
At the same time, Dr. Sparks (in the abstract that started this
discussion) found that the rabbits DID absorb copper from tap water.
Soooo, while it's impossible to get enough Ca and Mg from drinking
water, it might be a different for other minerals like copper, that we
need only in trace amounts. Makes me wonder about the other parts of
his answer about which I know nothing.
Thank you,
galya
EddyJean
the brain!
Eddy
Tim Tyler
: A steady stream of research points to heavy metals (aluminum, iron,
: zinc, copper, and mercury) as possibly playing important roles in
: Alzheimer's disease. This latest study sheds light on copper:
: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
A report of a previous study:
``Research teams at Harvard Medical School, the University of Melbourne,
and Prana Biotechnology Ltd in Australia are working collaboratively on
giving Alzheimer's-prone mice copper chelators, substances that sop up
metals and eliminate them from the body. These new metal-binding drugs
effectively "melted" the amyloid plaques in living mice in as little as
nine weeks, and are now in clinical trials with Alzheimer's
patients. Results of the first of these drugs, clioquinol, should be
known within 12 months, and further trials of this approach are
currently in preparation.''
- http://www.infoaging.org/d-alz-9-r-metals.html
Tim Tyler
: Drinking water is not a significant source of most minerals, with a
: few minor exceptions like fluoride, which many people think is a
: horrible deadly poison and shouldn't be in the water anyway.
It's already been mentioned - but in the post at the head of this
thread it states:
``Researchers first noticed that the rabbits they use to model Alzheimer's
disease developed fewer plaques in their brains when they drank
distilled water rather than tap water. These insoluble plaques,
generated in the rabbits via a high-cholesterol diet, are a trademark of
the degenerative illness.
The tap water contained significant amounts of copper, so Larry Sparks,
at the Sun Health Institute in Sun City, Arizona, and Bernard Schreurs,
at West Virginia University, then gave the rabbits distilled water
spiked with copper supplements.
These rabbits developed significantly more plaques than those drinking
only distilled water.''
It appears that the minerals in the tap water were representing
a biologically significant source of at least one mineral here.
Some of these minerals may be harmful - but other ones may be useful.
Tim Tyler
: Results of the first of these drugs, clioquinol, should be
: known within 12 months, and further trials of this approach are
: currently in preparation.''
: - http://www.infoaging.org/d-alz-9-r-metals.html
I liked a phrase here - from clioquinol's sponsor:
``Addressing investors in New York, Prana's Executive Chairman Geoffrey
Kempler said "This is enormously encouraging for us as we have developed
a whole library of proprietary metal protein attenuating compound
designer molecules. These have applicability not only to Alzheimer's
Disease but other neurodegenerative diseases including Parkinson's
Disease".
- http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030805/nytu075_1.html
George W. Cherry
"Tim Tyler" <t...@tt1.org> wrote in message news:HJo1E...@bath.ac.uk...
Use supplements for the essential minerals. BTW,
the most ardent tea connoisseur I've ever known
always use distilled water for his tea because he be-
lieved that distilled water made a better cuppa.
George
George W. Cherry
"Ian Goddard" <igod...@erols.mon> wrote in message
> "Tumbleweed" <tumblew...@theobvioushotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> "These findings suggest that water quality may impact
> >> on human health in the setting of increased circulating
> >> cholesterol levels, and could illustrate a truly simple
> >> life-style change that could be of benefit in AD."
> >>
> >
> >*Simple* life style change? I doubt it since it would be practically
> >impossible to only ingest liquids made from distilled water over your
> >lifetime. In a lab trial its easy to restrict the liquid intake of a
rabbit
> >in a cage, but unless you only ever drink water and no other liquids,
this
> >would be a close to impossible task.
> IAN: It's not an all-or-nothing situation. Given that you should
> drink several cups of water every day, try to make them distilled
> water. Distilled water can be purchased in most grocery stores; or
> preferably, distill your own water. Coincidently I just purchased
> the 1600 model non-electric distiller from http://WaterWise.com .
This thread has just scared the hell out of me. I have
lived the last 11 years in Maine on a lot which has
no public water. So we have an artesian well. I have
never had the water tested. I certainly will have it
tested now. If it doesn't test safe, I will buy the same
non-electric distiller you have. BTW, why did you
buy a distiller two years ago?
Ian Goddard
>Ian and Tim,
>
>In his answer, Dr. Weil says the following (from the link that Ian
>posted):
>
>‘'While it's true that distillation removes minerals as well as
>various contaminants from water, we don't know that the human body can
>readily absorb minerals from water. We get our minerals from food, not
>water. By one manufacturer's estimate, you would have to drink 676
>eight-ounce glasses of tap water in Boston to reach the RDA for
>calcium''
>
>At the same time, Dr. Sparks (in the abstract that started this
>discussion) found that the rabbits DID absorb copper from tap water.
>Soooo, while it's impossible to get enough Ca and Mg from drinking
>water, it might be a different for other minerals like copper, that we
>need only in trace amounts. Makes me wonder about the other parts of
>his answer about which I know nothing.
IAN: I see your point. However, consider that Weil says the body
does not "readily absorb" minerals from water. By saying "readily"
he does not exclude absorption, he says "does not easily absorb."
It could also be a qualification placed upon minerals per se where
some are, while others are not, easily absorbed. Or what he may be
saying is that the body cannot readily UTILIZE minerals from water.
But his argument seems to rest on the warrant that "pure = good,"
and I'm not so sure that necessarily follows, especially if the
matter is that there are some minerals you want to be in water.
But where I think he makes the case for distillation is that
there's all kinds of junk you don't want in water, and you
can't be totally sure how pure spring water is. As far as I
can see, this points to the best option being distilled; and
make sure you get enough minerals from food and/or supplements.
I think that's basically what he's saying, and I tend to agree.
http://IanGoddard.net
Ian Goddard
>This thread has just scared the hell out of me. I have
>lived the last 11 years in Maine on a lot which has
>no public water. So we have an artesian well. I have
>never had the water tested. I certainly will have it
>tested now.
IAN: What I don't understand (among so many other things :)
is how relatively minute traces of copper in water would be
more harmful than the much larger quantities in food. Perhaps
it's a matter of organic versus inorganic copper.?? It also
makes me wonder about copper in vitamin supplements. The Life
Extension Foundation offers the option of copper-free LE Mix,
and they excluded iron altogether years ago. The calcium pill
I take has copper, and I've taken several bottles over time.
Hope you caught Tim's posts. He made a real good-news find:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=HJqBD7.165%40bath.ac.uk
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=HJqC5q.1zM%40bath.ac.uk
There are hopeful anti-Alzheimer's drugs that chelate (ie,
attach to and remove) copper from the brain. The fact that
these drugs "melted" amyloid deposits in mice in nine weeks
is not only great news, it's remarkable evidence that copper
may not merely play a role but might be central to Alzheimer's.
>If it doesn't test safe, I will buy the same non-electric distiller you have.
>BTW, why did you buy a distiller two years ago?
IAN: Last Friday I distilled three gallons with my new 1600
Water Wise model. It was more labor intensive than the unit
I had before, which was very similar to the table-top units
from http://waterwise.com (it looked just like model 4000).
With the 1600, you have to watch the time to turn off the
stove, whereas the table-top units automatically turn off.
You also have to place water in the three trays above the
main boiling chamber, and the water in the trays boils off
into the air, which, if you don't have a fan over the stove
increases the humidity -- good in winter, bad in the summer.
See the three trays here: http://waterwise.com/images/1600p.jpg
The hassle was that for each of the three cycles I ran, the water
in the trays boiled off BEFORE the main chamber finished, so I had
to add more water to the three trays. The table-top units are like:
add water, turn on, forget. But an advantage of the 1600 is that so
long as you don't smash it up, it may last forever. It also doesn't
require an output carbon filter and could be used wherever you can
produce heat, which might be useful on camping trips where you can
haul it. But you might want to consider a simpler hassle-free unit.
Just make sure that whatever you buy contains no aluminum parts,
which matters since the steam is hot and could leach aluminum.
I purchased my first distiller to reduce the purchasing and hauling
of gallons of spring water. That unit broke down some time ago and
I've been doing spring water since. I opted to purchase this unit
after the growing data on metals and knowing that *supposedly*
distilled water attracts and removes inorganic metals. It's
just amazing that a day after it arrived I read this news
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
R Molony
Copper bonds to thiol groups and also to coordinately bonds to
nitrogens.
Mercury bonds particularly strongly to thiols.
Aluminium bonds to negative charged areas and not to thiols or
nitrogens. (also ferric iron)
So that the bonding of some metals is independent of others.
The picture is obviously not simple.
Bob M
doe
>From: Tim Tyler t...@tt1.org
>Date: 8/16/2003 2:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time
>Message-id: <HJqBD...@bath.ac.uk>
I just wonder how they are sure they are targeting only copper when the drugs
they use seem to be chelators of more than copper .. ?
<<snip>>
bioavailable metal chelator clioquinol
<<snip>>
Neuron. 2003 Mar 27;37(6):899-909. Related Articles, Links
Comment in:
Neuron. 2003 Mar 27;37(6):889-90.
Genetic or pharmacological iron chelation prevents MPTP-induced neurotoxicity
in vivo: a novel therapy for Parkinson's disease.
Kaur D, Yantiri F, Rajagopalan S, Kumar J, Mo JQ, Boonplueang R, Viswanath V,
Jacobs R, Yang L, Beal MF, DiMonte D, Volitaskis I, Ellerby L, Cherny RA, Bush
AI, Andersen JK.
Buck Institute for Age Research, Novato, CA 94945, USA.
Studies on postmortem brains from Parkinson's patients reveal elevated iron in
the substantia nigra (SN). Selective cell death in this brain region is
associated with oxidative stress, which may be exacerbated by the presence of
excess iron. Whether iron plays a causative role in cell death, however, is
controversial. Here, we explore the effects of iron chelation via either
transgenic expression of the iron binding protein ferritin or oral
administration of the bioavailable metal chelator clioquinol (CQ) on
susceptibility to the Parkinson's-inducing agent
1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrapyridine (MPTP). Reduction in reactive iron by
either genetic or pharmacological means was found to be well tolerated in
animals in our studies and to result in protection against the toxin,
suggesting that iron chelation may be an effective therapy for prevention and
treatment of the disease.
PMID: 12670420 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
Ian Goddard
> Water Wise model. It was more labor intensive than the unit
> I had before, which was very similar to the table-top units
> from http://waterwise.com (it looked just like model 4000).
UPDATE: I'm returning the model 1600 that I just purchased.
At least for the unit I received, there's a serious problem.
I purchased a long tube (about three-feet long) that runs to
a three-gallon collection tank. I just noticed that along the
path that the distilled water ran from the unit into the tank
there is a copper(!!) colored residue that is very dark where
the water first entered the tube and progressively lighter as
it nears the end of the tube. The color is actually a shinny
copper color! There's also a similar color at the water line
on the collection tray. I do not know what this residue is,
but no question it means the output water was NOT pure. I
also don't know what kind of metal was used in soldering
the many different pieces of metal in the complex unit.
Given that my last distiller clearly appeared to have
aluminum collection tubing, my feeling is that I don't
have the time, resources, or inclination to hunt and
peck for safe distillers. Moreover, if you purchase
distilled water, you can't know what the distillation
system used by the manufacturer is made of. The highly
aggressive nature of distilled water (ie, it's tendency
to attract metals) means any leechable metals in the
system that come in contact with the water may pollute
the water and thereby defeat the distillation process.
With that in mind, I think for me the default decision
is use spring water and simple carbon-filtered tap water.
Copper & Alzheimer's Disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=v92ojv8btt8ioq46dlpfkrb1e45nrhblt0%404ax.com
Aluminum & Alzheimer's Disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
Iron & Alzheimer's Disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
Mercury & Alzheimer's Disease:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3af37029.2307577%40news.erols.com
http://IanGoddard.net/journal.htm
George W. Cherry
"Ian Goddard" <igod...@erols.mon> wrote in message
Thanks for this update on your distiller. I (and,
I'm sure, others) appreciate this kind of informa-
tion. I just received a test kit for supplying the
water testing company with specimens of our
water. I checked the specs on our house (in Maine).
Our well is a 340 foot deep artesian well. I have
my fingers crossed that the water is healthful (it
certainly tastes good). Of course, the quality of
the water from the tap depends on our plumbing
also. The plumbing (at least what I can see of it)
is copper. I notice corrosion on the outside of
the pipes. I hope copper plumbing is safe. I've
been drinking this water almost exclusively for
12 years, and I've noticed a little "cognitive slip-
page". Of course, that could be due to my reck-
less consumption of tofu. : o ) Slake your thirst
with appropriate caution, huh? If our water is
really healthful, maybe I'll bottle and sell it: "Kit-
tery Point Spring Water: It keeps you smart".
George
rsymes
water but I think its more sensible to cut down on the cholesterol intake. When the
body is overloaded by any particular chemical, either organic or inorganic, it can
result in problems which may be compounded by a second chemical. Take the once
popular solvent carbon tetrachloride use by dry cleaners. If you drank alcohol
after using this solvent you could die very soon after due to the interaction with
the alcohol. The same quanity of alcohol without exposure to the solvent would be
harmless. Which of the two is it better to avoid exposure to?
Thats an extreme example but going back to copper, its not just in water, its in
many foods. Most of the common nuts like pecans, hazel nuts and walnuts contains
1-1.3 mg Cu per 100g and brazil nuts contain up to 2.3 mg per 100g.
Considering copper consumption is unavoidable and in fact a requirement for
metabolism of iron, development of red blood cells plus a host of other things, its
seems to me that its the cholesterol which is the problem.
Ian Goddard wrote:
> Copper link to Alzheimer's disease:
> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994045
>
> The abstract:
> http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1832769100v1
>
> Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 10.1073/pnas.1832769100
>
> Trace amounts of copper in water induce beta-amyloid plaques and
> learning deficits in a rabbit model of Alzheimer's disease
>
> [authors and affiliations cut for brevity, see link above]
>
> Despite the crucial role played by cholesterol and copper in nutrition
> and normal brain function, recent evidence indicates that they may
> both be important factors in the etiology of Alzheimer's disease (AD).
> Here we provide critical evidence for the role of cholesterol and
> copper in AD by showing that the addition of trace amounts of copper
> (0.12 ppm) to water given to cholesterol-fed rabbits can induce
> beta-amyloid (Abeta) accumulation, including senile plaque-like
> structures in the hippocampus and temporal lobe, and can significantly
> retard the ability of rabbits to learn a difficult trace conditioning
> task. The Abeta deposits do not affect the ability of rabbits to
> detect or respond to the training stimuli nor to learn a simpler delay
> conditioning task. Trace amounts of copper in drinking water may
> influence clearance of Abeta from the brain at the level of the
> interface between the blood and cerebrovasculature and combined with
> high cholesterol may be a key component to the accumulation of Abeta
> in the brain, having a significant impact on learning and memory.
> Cholesterol-fed rabbits have at least 12 pathological markers seen in
> AD, suggesting that the cholesterol-fed rabbit is a good animal model
> for studying AD.
>
> > Also see:
> >
> > Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease:
> >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=gq8havshkhetd6s78ctbgvc8iev0gtma1n%404ax.com
> >
> > Iron and Alzheimer's disease:
> >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bhfmiv867s916mglu8ioerf60ninn8b2hs%404ax.com
> >
> > Mercury and Alzheimer's disease:
tintinet
> Everyone seems concerned about limiting their copper intake by drinking distilled
> water but I think its more sensible to cut down on the cholesterol intake.
Cholesterol is a substance one's body makes for itself. Just cutting
down or eliminating sources of cholesterol in one's food will not
necessarily produce low levels in one's body.
rsymes
tintinet wrote:
> rsymes <rsy...@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:<3F5402CD...@dodo.com.au>...
> > Everyone seems concerned about limiting their copper intake by drinking distilled
> > water but I think its more sensible to cut down on the cholesterol intake.
>
> Cholesterol is a substance one's body makes for itself. Just cutting
> down or eliminating sources of cholesterol in one's food will not
> necessarily produce low levels in one's body.
>
There are two forms of cholesterol one of which is beneficial in the human body and the
other which is dangerous. The dangerous type accumulates in the body through consumption
of animal products. If a person eats large quatities of fatty foods then they will put
themselves at risk of high cholesterol.
I'm not saying the simple answer is to watch what we eat since high cholesterol level can
result from other factors but poor diet is a leading cause.
Robert McCarty
rsymes wrote:
> > > Alzheimers disease is from a direct affront to the Brain Stem.
DIET Sodas with the artificial sweetner: Aspertame is the greatest
demon in our societies today. Over 65 million new cases in the USA
since its' appearance in 1989. Those who use COCAINE also may
have a problem. ANYTHING that affects the brain stem, including
non-shielded "cell-phones" are in danger from same. MOTOROLA
makes the only SAFE "shielded" antenna type presently on the Market.
It also costs the most,,,but is your health and life worth it??
ABSOLUTELY!
Only heavy equipment operators used to be prone to Alzheimers due to
excessive jolting of the spinal system. But today, RF and Wood Alcohol
have entered the picture. B-0b1