Interesting fundraising ideas needed
Helen
sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
I've been racking my brains trying to help them out, without much
success so far. They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
interesting and unusual. I was thinking of methods on the lines of
the WI nude calendar, but that's been done and what is more has been
made into a film, so is no longer obscure enough to pinch.
Magic works in their world, but none of the villagers can do magic, so
magical means are out. They are already doing all the usual things
like raffles and having a summer fair/fete and dance and asking for
donations from pilgrims who come to visit the mountain. I think they
can invent the concept of sponsering, eg sponsored walks and they can
sell souvenirs of the mountain. But, as the villagers don't have much
money themselves, I really need ways they can raise money from further
afield. Although a late 19C early 20C-ish sort of tech level, they
don't yet have mass media like radio and TV, though
newspapers/broadsheets are no doubt available, if that would help.
Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
Thanks
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
[1] Don't they always? :-)
Alma Hromic Deckert
<snip>
>Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
>my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
hav they tried tne pleading mail from
nigerian-or-insert-your-local-equivalent dictators yet...?
A. (sorry - wildly facetious - but if anyone comes up with novel and
effective fund raising methods, please let me know so that i can adapt
them for the here and now...)
Wildepad
>My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
>sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
>I've been racking my brains trying to help them out, without much
>success so far. They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
>interesting and unusual. I was thinking of methods on the lines of
>the WI nude calendar, but that's been done and what is more has been
>made into a film, so is no longer obscure enough to pinch.
>
>Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
>my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
Form women's-bikini-volleyball teams and have them tour the country.
Local sponsors can buy advertising space on the bikini (quick
embroidery work since there isn't room for elaborate designs) and you
charge admission, giving the concession rights to the local lord in
exchange for permissions.
R. L.
>My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
>sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
>I've been racking my brains trying to help them out, without much
>success so far. They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
>interesting and unusual.
Well, the traditional thing is to find the legendary treasure hidden in
the mountain (or in some property a good guy owns).
R.L.
Troy
news:a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com...
<SNIP>
> Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
Well...
I don't know how moral your characters are, but maybe they should just steal
it or blackmail someone :)
Mary Gentle
(Alma Hromic Deckert) wrote:
Curiously enough, that was my first thought, too. <g>
Mary
Brooks Moses
> On 25 Sep 2003 08:31:30 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
> <snip>
> >Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> >my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
>
> hav they tried tne pleading mail from
> nigerian-or-insert-your-local-equivalent dictators yet...?
Well, I was thinking Ponzi schemes; they're almost exactly right for the
timeperiod associated with the posited tech level, too.
- Brooks
--
Remove "-usenet" from my address to reply; the bmoses-usenet address
is currently disabled due to an overload of W32.Gibe-F worm emails.
Alma Hromic Deckert
<high fives>
A.
Mary K. Kuhner
Helen <amd...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
>sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
>I've been racking my brains trying to help them out, without much
>success so far. They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
>interesting and unusual. I was thinking of methods on the lines of
>the WI nude calendar, but that's been done and what is more has been
>made into a film, so is no longer obscure enough to pinch.
Can they find a patron who will buy it for them? Their problems won't
be over, but at least they'll have staved off the immediate disaster.
Who has money and power locally? What might the villagers be able to
offer in return? Is a magic mountain a status symbol? Would a big
temple like to have its own magic mountain? How about a noble family?
Can they fake a prophecy that makes the mountain important to someone?
Or a miracle, an apparition, something like that? Then they get themselves
appointed guardians of the now-more-important mountain.
How about "discovering" a healing spring or shrine? Or a magic herb
that promotes youth, health (my partner in crime says 'penis length'
but I think he's been reading too much spam)?
Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
Marilee J. Layman
>Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
>my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
Reading the local equivalent of Eye of Argon?
--
Marilee J. Layman
Handmade Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
minoti baro
> Although a late 19C early 20C-ish sort of tech level, they
> don't yet have mass media like radio and TV, though
> newspapers/broadsheets are no doubt available, if that would help.
>
> Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
- create a gold rush in some other part of the land and send your
characters on a wild wild west kinda adventure
- or have a mad scientist/crazy engineer living in the area and have
his assistance (or beautiful niece/daughter) stumble upon a rough
sketch of a marvellous invention (that requires the aide of the whole
village to be built) that would produce something which would generate
much wealth.
-Min
Khiem Tran
> My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
> sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
> I've been racking my brains trying to help them out, without much
> success so far. They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
> interesting and unusual. I was thinking of methods on the lines of
> the WI nude calendar, but that's been done and what is more has been
> made into a film, so is no longer obscure enough to pinch.
Is it really necessary to raise more money, or would lowering the
asking price do? (Cue sudden emergence of an ancient curse/terrifying
monster sightings/villagers running around in silly costumes/night on
bald mountain scene for potential buyers...)
> Magic works in their world, but none of the villagers can do magic, so
> magical means are out. They are already doing all the usual things
If magic does work, then all the more reason that fake ghosts and
monsters might be taken seriously(*).
Hope this helps,
Khiem
(*) "And we would have gotten away with it too, if not for those
meddling kids..."
David Friedman
amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
> Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
If we don't have to like them, could they set up a speed trap for rich
tourists? I'm thinking of "The Village That Voted the Earth Was Flat."
What's the magic of the magic mountain good for? Could they be selling
someone future access to it? Sort of a time share.
Then there's the "The Mouse That Roared" approach.
--
Remove NOSPAM to email
www.daviddfriedman.com
Eric Jarvis
> amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote in message news:<a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > Although a late 19C early 20C-ish sort of tech level, they
> > don't yet have mass media like radio and TV, though
> > newspapers/broadsheets are no doubt available, if that would help.
> >
> > Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> > my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
>
>
> - create a gold rush in some other part of the land and send your
> characters on a wild wild west kinda adventure
>
Or fake a gold strike locally and make a killing catering to the in rush
of prospectors from everywhere else. Has the advantage of being more
reliable...and of a dramatic climax when the prospectors realise they've
been hoodwinked.
--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Dorothy J Heydt
Boarding houses. Laundries. Tailors. Shirtmakers. Bootmakers.
Heinlein's Hazel Stone in the Asteroid Belt: "If your father
weren't such a Puritan, I'd open a perfectly honest,
straightforward gambling hall. That's like having a rich uncle."
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Neil Barnes
news:ddfr-48EB4F.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net:
> In article <a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com>,
> amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>
>> Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising
>> methods that my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
>
> If we don't have to like them, could they set up a speed trap
> for rich tourists? I'm thinking of "The Village That Voted the
> Earth Was Flat."
Yeah, but look what happened to that village...
Neil
--
note - the email address in this message is valid but the
signal to noise ratio approaches -40dB. A more useful address
is a similar account at ntlworld-fullstop-com.
Sten During
> My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
> sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
<SNIP>
> afield. Although a late 19C early 20C-ish sort of tech level, they
> don't yet have mass media like radio and TV, though
> newspapers/broadsheets are no doubt available, if that would help.
>
Who's selling?
A number of (disastrous) schemes involving selling shares in resources
not always owned by the seller have a part in our own history.
Pilfering stones and and stuff growing on the mountain and selling them
at markets?
Start "haunting" the mountain in order to attempt dumping the price?
Sten
Helen
> On 25 Sep 2003 08:31:30 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> >my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
>
> hav they tried tne pleading mail from
> nigerian-or-insert-your-local-equivalent dictators yet...?
>
They are going to beg for donations from the various religious groups
that have an interest in the magic mountain, and I'm sure that few
wealthy people will help them out with a couple of sizable donations,
but an outright scam isn't on.
> A. (sorry - wildly facetious - but if anyone comes up with novel and
> effective fund raising methods, please let me know so that i can adapt
> them for the here and now...)
Me too!
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
Aha! This has potential. I'm not sure about volleyball, but you've
triggered a random thought and I'm now wondering about a sponsored
nude ride around the neighbouring towns and villages (conflating your
suggestion with Lady Godiva here). That should have people flocking
to view the rider(s) and the others can rattle their collecting tins.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Mary Gentle
(Alma Hromic Deckert) wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:58 +0100 (BST), mary_...@cix.co.uk (Mary
> Gentle) wrote:
>
> >In article <2o56nv889ptsr03ck...@4ax.com>,
> ang...@vaxer.net >(Alma Hromic Deckert) wrote:
> >
> >> On 25 Sep 2003 08:31:30 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >> >Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods
> > that
> >> >my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
> >>
> >> hav they tried tne pleading mail from
> >> nigerian-or-insert-your-local-equivalent dictators yet...?
> >>
> >> A. (sorry - wildly facetious - but if anyone comes up with novel and
> >> effective fund raising methods, please let me know so that i can
> > adapt
> >> them for the here and now...)
> >>
> >Curiously enough, that was my first thought, too. <g>
>
> <high fives>
Evil minds think alike, I believe. :)
Mary
Helen
> On 25 Sep 2003 08:31:30 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>
> >My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
> >sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
>
> the mountain (or in some property a good guy owns).
>
> R.L.
You're right. That is the traditional method. Unfortunately, no one
in the past in the area around Longleton was far-sighted enough to
loose a suitable hoard of treasure somewhere were it could be found
again when desperately needed.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
I forgot to mention in my original post that the money has to be
raised by legal means. Silly methods are OK, however, as it is a
comedy.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk
minoti baro
> If we don't have to like them, could they set up a speed trap for rich
> tourists? I'm thinking of "The Village That Voted the Earth Was Flat."
That sounds remarkably like one of those medieval reanactment
societies. What if the village holds a er... renaissance festival type
thing? You know, charge twenty bucks for entry, and hike up the price
of food... have people running around dressed in old fashioned clothes
and talking in fake accents. It could work!
Helen
>
> tourists? I'm thinking of "The Village That Voted the Earth Was Flat."
>
little town nearby rather than in the hostel.
What I didn't explain (in order to keep my original post brief) was
that the current landowner wants to sell the mountain (which he's
perfectly entitled to do) and normally this wouldn't be a problem as
the various pilgrim routes up it are protected rights of way. The
panic is occurring because the intended buyer plans to move the
mountain[1] away from Longleton and place it nearer the city, thus
making it more convenient for many of the pilgrims who want to visit
it. This will, however, remove a large source of income from the
villagers who rely heavily on pilgrims passing through.
> What's the magic of the magic mountain good for? Could they be selling
> someone future access to it? Sort of a time share.
>
As I said above, this isn't going to help because access to the top of
the mountain is assured anyway and the villagers have no legal rights
over the mountain to sell. This is why they want to buy it for
themselves. They're going to have to set up some kind of trust or
charity to be the legal owner of the mountain in the future, with a
stipulation that it must stay where it's always been.
Helen
[1] The Earth Mages have assured him that this is possible and they've
given him a quote for the job.
Mary Gentle
Couldn't you, um, 'borrow' it from someone with too much in the way of
possessions for their spiritual health, and then dig it up as a hoard of
treasure? (Having first buried it, naturally. :)
No chance of the local equivalent of a Roman garrison? Those guys were
notoriously careless with their small change.
Mary
Mary Gentle
[...]
> [1] The Earth Mages have assured him that this is possible and they've
> given him a quote for the job.
Are the Earth Mages susceptible to a number of stout lads calling around
and educating them about the inadvisability of doing said job? :)
What's the equivalent of plonking yourself down in front of the
bulldozers?
Mary
Dorothy J Heydt
Oh, anyplace with a history of having been invaded. Or civil
wars. Anybody could bury a hoard to keep someone else from
getting it, then be killed leaving no clues as to where it was
buried. You'd have to make sure the laws don't include that
"treasure trove belongs to the Crown" line, though.
Joann Zimmerman
Have neither of you--nor Helen, considering it's her magic mountain--
ever made the acquaintance of the town of Hell in the movie "Paint Your
Wagon"?
--
"I never understood people who don't have bookshelves."
--George Plimpton
Joann Zimmerman jz...@bellereti.com
R. L.
>R. L. <sssss...@ssssssspam.comsssssss> wrote in message news:<ra86nvkc56elq1dms...@4ax.com>...
>> On 25 Sep 2003 08:31:30 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>>
>> >My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
>> >sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
>>
>> Well, the traditional thing is to find the legendary treasure hidden in
>> the mountain (or in some property a good guy owns).
>>
>You're right. That is the traditional method. Unfortunately, no one
>in the past in the area around Longleton was far-sighted enough to
>loose a suitable hoard of treasure somewhere were it could be found
>again when desperately needed.
Hm. Well, what about faking a treasure map and treasure hunt. This might
get an eccentric treasure-hunter type to buy the whole mountain, which
would at least get some time. Hm, maybe it would get time to go deal
with a dragon to plant a treasure that would satisfy that eccentric....
Or the scam might involve a piece of land that a good guy already owns,
and could sell at inflated price, or trade the treasure rights for an
interest in the mountian, or something.
R.L.
Dorothy J Heydt
Joann Zimmerman <jz...@bellereti.com> wrote:
>In article <HLsz1...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
>> In article <MPG.19ddc4aa3...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>,
>> Eric Jarvis <w...@ericjarvis.co.uk> wrote:
>> >minoti baro wrote:
>
>> >Or fake a gold strike locally and make a killing catering to the in rush
>> >of prospectors from everywhere else. Has the advantage of being more
>> >reliable...and of a dramatic climax when the prospectors realise they've
>> >been hoodwinked.
>>
>> Boarding houses. Laundries. Tailors. Shirtmakers. Bootmakers.
>>
>> Heinlein's Hazel Stone in the Asteroid Belt: "If your father
>> weren't such a Puritan, I'd open a perfectly honest,
>> straightforward gambling hall. That's like having a rich uncle."
>
>Have neither of you--nor Helen, considering it's her magic mountain--
>ever made the acquaintance of the town of Hell in the movie "Paint Your
>Wagon"?
I haven't.
Joann Zimmerman
Let's just say that it's the remarkably ugly flip side of inviting in
all the bootmakers, laundries, and so forth ... with particular
reference to gambling halls.
R. L.
>"Troy" <tr...@morpheus.No_SpAm.net> wrote in message news:<q_Fcb.3511$F02.246...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>...
/snip/
>> Well...
>> I don't know how moral your characters are, but maybe they should just steal
>> it or blackmail someone :)
>
>I forgot to mention in my original post that the money has to be
>raised by legal means.
What, *all* the inhabitants of the village are such saints? Your party
may be. But what if some other villagers decide to take independent
action, with some sort of scam that fools the party also?
R.L.
Wildepad
Sorry, but I don't see that working too well. Nobody would be paying
any attention to the collection cans, rattling or not.
OTOH, it might work as a form of blackmail -- "We're in your village
to collect 345 silvers. As soon as we raise that amount, we'll move on
to the next village."
At first you'd get only the women donating, but after a couple of days
the shop owners and big farmers would probably pitch in so that life
could go back to normal.
Alma Hromic Deckert
your name would suddenly become Arthur Dent andyou'd acquire an
obsessive although wholly inexplicable focus on the number 42...?
A.
Brian M. Scott
news:a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
[...]
> Longleton
I keep reading this as Longle-ton, which sounds dreadfully
silly. Please tell me that it's really Long-leton! (And if
it is, could I talk you into spelling it <Longleaton> or <Long
Leton>?)
[...]
Brian
James F. Cornwall
Pass local ordinances that require an Economic Impact Statement and
compensation to the local economy for removal of community income
potential, punishable by confiscation of property involved in such
disputes. And make certain that the village gives itself the zoning
authority to regulate lands that includes the mountain.
Not nice, but that way you could sorta call it legal. :-)
Jim
--
****************************************************
** Facilior veniam posterius quam prius capere! **
****************************************************
** James F. Cornwall, sole owner of all opinions **
** expressed in this message... **
****************************************************
Eric Jarvis
Reminds me of a D&D game many years ago. We used a White Dwarf scenario,
the first character to declare himself was a Paladin. I was next, so I
claimed that my Philosopher (a professional debater over the major issues
of life and death, as in "I think therefore I am", "I stab therefore you
aren't") was also a Paladin. As were the two thieves and both the chaotic
evil fighters.
Now that we had a party entirely of Paladins we ignored the little old man
in the inn and went off to do some good works. As in:
<knock on door, villager answers>
"Hello John, we're Paladins John, collecting for charity. Want to make a
donation John? Because not making a donation to charity is evil, John, and
you know what Paladins do to evil people. The chap with his arms tied
behind his back and a gag? He's just doing a penance, John. Nothing as
serious as being evil and not donating to charity. You can see he's hardly
got any scars or bruises at all. Thank you, that's very generous of you."
--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"Hey Lord don't ask me questions
There ain't no answer in me"
Mary Gentle
(Alma Hromic Deckert) wrote:
:-P
I was trying to avoid that thought. :)
Mary
Mary Gentle
I know I'm talking to the Names Big Cheese here, but I really wouldn't
have been surprised to find Longleton, pronounced Longle-ton, on a UK road
map...
Well, okay, being English -- pronounced Longle-(swallowed 'tn'). I tend
to associate Americans with putting the definite TON on the end of -ton
placenames.
Mary
I know a Long Eaton, if that helps. :)
David Friedman
> What I didn't explain (in order to keep my original post brief) was
> that the current landowner wants to sell the mountain (which he's
> perfectly entitled to do) and normally this wouldn't be a problem as
> the various pilgrim routes up it are protected rights of way. The
> panic is occurring because the intended buyer plans to move the
> mountain[1] away from Longleton and place it nearer the city, thus
> making it more convenient for many of the pilgrims who want to visit
> it. This will, however, remove a large source of income from the
> villagers who rely heavily on pilgrims passing through.
As an alternative strategy, could the villagers arrange for the village
and its lands to be moved along with the mountain? Is there some way of
getting them magically attached so that's the easiest way to do it?
--
Remove NOSPAM to email
www.daviddfriedman.com
David Friedman
Neil Barnes <nailed_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedmanNOSPAM.com> wrote in
> news:ddfr-48EB4F.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net:
>
> > In article <a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com>,
> > amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
> >
> >> Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising
> >> methods that my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
> >
> > If we don't have to like them, could they set up a speed trap
> > for rich tourists? I'm thinking of "The Village That Voted the
> > Earth Was Flat."
>
> Yeah, but look what happened to that village...
There is that.
I was assuming that Kipling and his friends didn't exist in the universe
in question.
Mary Gentle
w...@ericjarvis.co.uk (Eric Jarvis) wrote:
[...]
> Now that we had a party entirely of Paladins we ignored the little old
> man in the inn and went off to do some good works. As in:
>
> <knock on door, villager answers>
>
> "Hello John, we're Paladins John, collecting for charity. Want to make
> a donation John? Because not making a donation to charity is evil,
> John, and you know what Paladins do to evil people. The chap with his
> arms tied behind his back and a gag? He's just doing a penance, John.
> Nothing as serious as being evil and not donating to charity. You can
> see he's hardly got any scars or bruises at all. Thank you, that's very
> generous of you."
RPGer Sibling! :)
Mary
R. L.
Spell of "Invoke Dr. Seuss's OMNIBUS BONERS". Page whatsis: "The serfs
were attached to the manor, and when it moved, they moved with it." It
was illustrated with a flying piece of land and the serts holding on.
R.L.
Chris Dollin
> My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
> sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
> I've been racking my brains trying to help them out, without much
> success so far. They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
> interesting and unusual. I was thinking of methods on the lines of
> the WI nude calendar, but that's been done and what is more has been
> made into a film, so is no longer obscure enough to pinch.
As a right-angle turn to the bits of discussion I've read, how about
having them *fail* - and, once the mountain is moved, discovering some
*other* feature that will keep the income rolling in?
Maybe the presence of the mountain is suppressing something else note-
worthy? Maybe the mountain isn't magic in itself, it's pulling the magic
in from somewhere nearer the village, and once it moves, the source
will be even better situated?
The Earth Mages might be quite aware of this; that's why the quote is
affordable. Post-move conversation:
"My mountain isn't magic since you moved it!"
"You asked us to move the mountain, which we could, and did. You
didn't ask us to move the magic."
"You didn't tell me that magic would stay put!"
"You never asked."
--
Hedgehog
http://www.electric-hedgehog.net/reviews/2003-03-merlin-conspiracy.html
Brian M. Scott
news:memo.2003092...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
> In article
> <Xns94027B247A84Cs...@129.250.170.93>,
> b.s...@csuohio.edu (Brian M. Scott) wrote:
>> On 26 Sep 2003 amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote in
>> news:a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com in
>> rec.arts.sf.composition:
>> [...]
>> > Longleton
>> I keep reading this as Longle-ton, which sounds dreadfully
>> silly. Please tell me that it's really Long-leton! (And
>> if it is, could I talk you into spelling it <Longleaton>
>> or <Long Leton>?)
> I know I'm talking to the Names Big Cheese here,
Step right up, madam, to the baptismal fontinella, filled to
the brim with holy limburger. Is it to be full immersion, or
just a cheesy dip?
> but I
> really wouldn't have been surprised to find Longleton,
> pronounced Longle-ton, on a UK road map...
I'll have to see if I can come up with an even halfway
reasonable etymology; off the top of my head I can't.
[...]
> I know a Long Eaton, if that helps. :)
And a Longleat, I expect.
Brian
Dorothy J Heydt
Oh, I like that....
Medievalbk
>>didn't ask us to move the magic."
>>
>>"You didn't tell me that magic would stay put!"
>>
>>"You never asked."
>
>Oh, I like that....
>
>Dorothy J. Heydt
I do too. How many fantasy plotlines ever wind up needing lawyers?
The quote, "Niven let learn," instantly comes to mind.
...which of course can't be used unless there has been a crossover with this
reality.
"The magic gauche: a weight."
Straining it there for that one.
William Taylor
----------------------
http://www.sloan3d.com/brinl/stories/index.html
Julie Pascal
"Mary K. Kuhner" <mkku...@kingman.gs.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:bkvvfc$7oc$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
> In article <a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com>,
> Helen <amd...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
> >sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
> >I've been racking my brains trying to help them out, without much
> >success so far. They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
> >interesting and unusual. I was thinking of methods on the lines of
> >the WI nude calendar, but that's been done and what is more has been
> >made into a film, so is no longer obscure enough to pinch.
The only thing I can think of is "prayer cloths". Some small
"blessed" item that can be shipped all over and sold cheaply
to the masses.
Unless you specifically want to avoid scams.
(...)
> How about "discovering" a healing spring or shrine? Or a magic herb
> that promotes youth, health (my partner in crime says 'penis length'
> but I think he's been reading too much spam)?
Ah...Ah...why not? (The only "good" thing about a useless e-mail
in box lately is that I haven't noticed any 'penis length' spam.) Combine
that with my idea...sell genuine prayer panties...used by virgins on
that very mountain and removed by impressively hung and healthy
young men so now the panties are magic...or something...
And you know someone will google me some day and I'm
*really* gonna regret sending this out. <g>
--Julie
Zeborah
> Alma Hromic Deckert <ang...@vaxer.net> wrote in message
news:<2o56nv889ptsr03ck...@4ax.com>...
> > On 25 Sep 2003 08:31:30 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > >Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> > >my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
> >
> > hav they tried tne pleading mail from
> > nigerian-or-insert-your-local-equivalent dictators yet...?
> >
> Oh, if only they could... Unfortunately, the methods have to be legal.
Oh, legal, that's easy. One of them's got a cookie recipe, right? So
they send a letter to six friends...
(My ancestors, in the mid 19th century, lost lots of money in something
called the South Sea Bubble, which my father says was a pyramid scheme.
I keep meaning to research it myself.)
> They are going to beg for donations from the various religious groups
> that have an interest in the magic mountain, and I'm sure that few
> wealthy people will help them out with a couple of sizable donations,
> but an outright scam isn't on.
Oh, you mean you want ethical too?
Zeborah
Tim S
> Helen <amd...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Alma Hromic Deckert <ang...@vaxer.net> wrote in message
> news:<2o56nv889ptsr03ck...@4ax.com>...
>>> On 25 Sep 2003 08:31:30 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
>>>> my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
>>>
>>> hav they tried tne pleading mail from
>>> nigerian-or-insert-your-local-equivalent dictators yet...?
>>>
>> Oh, if only they could... Unfortunately, the methods have to be legal.
>
> Oh, legal, that's easy. One of them's got a cookie recipe, right? So
> they send a letter to six friends...
>
> (My ancestors, in the mid 19th century, lost lots of money in something
> called the South Sea Bubble, which my father says was a pyramid scheme.
> I keep meaning to research it myself.)
The beginning of the 18th century, if it really was the South Sea Bubble. It
was a stock market bubble rather than a pyramid scheme in the strict sense.
A company was set up, allegedly along the lines of the East India Company,
to exploit the South Pacific (the 'South Seas'). Rather like tech stocks
recently, people thought it was impossible to lose investing in the South
Seas, so a bubble ensued. It collapsed after a year or so along with the
South Seas Company.
Perhaps the village should set up a joint stock company and issue shares.
Tim
Mary Gentle
> On 26 Sep 2003 mary_...@cix.co.uk (Mary Gentle) wrote in
> news:memo.2003092...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com in
> rec.arts.sf.composition:
>
> > In article
> > <Xns94027B247A84Cs...@129.250.170.93>,
> > b.s...@csuohio.edu (Brian M. Scott) wrote:
>
> >> On 26 Sep 2003 amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote in
> >> news:a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com in
> >> rec.arts.sf.composition:
>
> >> [...]
>
> >> > Longleton
>
> >> I keep reading this as Longle-ton, which sounds dreadfully
> >> silly. Please tell me that it's really Long-leton! (And
> >> if it is, could I talk you into spelling it <Longleaton>
> >> or <Long Leton>?)
>
> > I know I'm talking to the Names Big Cheese here,
>
> Step right up, madam, to the baptismal fontinella, filled to
> the brim with holy limburger. Is it to be full immersion, or
> just a cheesy dip?
Just crack a Brie over my stern and let me slide down the slipway. :)
> > but I
> > really wouldn't have been surprised to find Longleton,
> > pronounced Longle-ton, on a UK road map...
>
> I'll have to see if I can come up with an even halfway
> reasonable etymology; off the top of my head I can't.
Okay, that'll be interesting.
>
> [...]
>
> > I know a Long Eaton, if that helps. :)
>
> And a Longleat, I expect.
Yeah, but it's difficult to forget that one, what with the lions and all.
Mary
Helen
> On 26 Sep 2003 02:51:37 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>
> >Wildepad <capu...@hesenergy.net> wrote in message news:<9g66nvc7lgmvikpo0...@4ax.com>...
> >>
> >> embroidery work since there isn't room for elaborate designs) and you
> >> charge admission, giving the concession rights to the local lord in
> >> exchange for permissions.
> >
> >Aha! This has potential. I'm not sure about volleyball, but you've
> >triggered a random thought and I'm now wondering about a sponsored
> >nude ride around the neighbouring towns and villages (conflating your
> >suggestion with Lady Godiva here). That should have people flocking
> >to view the rider(s) and the others can rattle their collecting tins.
>
> Sorry, but I don't see that working too well. Nobody would be paying
> any attention to the collection cans, rattling or not.
>
> OTOH, it might work as a form of blackmail -- "We're in your village
> to collect 345 silvers. As soon as we raise that amount, we'll move on
> to the next village."
> At first you'd get only the women donating, but after a couple of days
> the shop owners and big farmers would probably pitch in so that life
> could go back to normal.
I had thought that some people might pay to keep the cavalcade away.
:-) For example prudish communities, or those who wanted to be thought
to be above all that sort of thing. Or, as you say, the wives.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
Good point. Perhaps some of the more dubious characters could turn up
with quite a sizeable amount of money and the POV characters could
have their doubts, but decide to turn a blind eye to where the money
came from.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Brooks Moses
> Wildepad <capu...@REMOVEhesenergy.net> wrote in message news:<knk8nvs39htns4r7m...@4ax.com>...
> > On 26 Sep 2003 02:51:37 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
> > >Wildepad <capu...@hesenergy.net> wrote in message news:<9g66nvc7lgmvikpo0...@4ax.com>...
> > >triggered a random thought and I'm now wondering about a sponsored
> > >nude ride around the neighbouring towns and villages (conflating your
> > >suggestion with Lady Godiva here). That should have people flocking
> > >to view the rider(s) and the others can rattle their collecting tins.
> >
> > Sorry, but I don't see that working too well. Nobody would be paying
> > any attention to the collection cans, rattling or not.
I was thinking of it more along the lines that the sponsorship happens
first, and then they only do the ride in a certain area if they get
enough sponsorship for that area.
> > OTOH, it might work as a form of blackmail -- "We're in your village
> > to collect 345 silvers. As soon as we raise that amount, we'll move on
> > to the next village."
> > At first you'd get only the women donating, but after a couple of days
> > the shop owners and big farmers would probably pitch in so that life
> > could go back to normal.
>
> I had thought that some people might pay to keep the cavalcade away.
> :-) For example prudish communities, or those who wanted to be thought
> to be above all that sort of thing. Or, as you say, the wives.
Ah, even better! They have two money pots; if they get more than X
amount in the "ride" moneypot, they'll ride through the town. Unless,
of course, the people pitching money in the "don't ride" moneypot outbid
them by putting more money in their pot than's in the "ride" pot. Keep
a public tally of the totals, of course.
And, depending on their ethics, no need for the public tally to be
strictly accurate if it's not really a close call between the two....
- Brooks
--
Remove "-usenet" from my address to reply; the bmoses-usenet address
is currently disabled due to an overload of W32.Gibe-F worm emails.
Helen
>
> Can they find a patron who will buy it for them? Their problems won't
> be over, but at least they'll have staved off the immediate disaster.
>
I don't want that to be the solution, but they can certainly try to
find a benefactor who would buy it and keep it in the village. As
long as the mountain stays put, it doesn't really matter who owns it,
but at the end I want
the villagers to triumph and be able to buy the mountain for
themselves.
> Who has money and power locally? What might the villagers be able to
> offer in return? Is a magic mountain a status symbol? Would a big
> temple like to have its own magic mountain? How about a noble family?
>
They'll have to be careful though. This is the reason the new owner
wants to but it, plus he reckons he can make more money from it if
it's moved than if it stays miles from anywhere. They don't want to
start a bidding war that would put the price well out of their reach.
> Can they fake a prophecy that makes the mountain important to someone?
> Or a miracle, an apparition, something like that? Then they get themselves
> appointed guardians of the now-more-important mountain.
>
The mountain is already terrifically important to everyone. It's
considered holy by all the races (humans, elves, dwarfs and orcs) in
the neighbouring kingdoms. Having looked at my map, the dwarfs my
help them with considerable donations because the new proposed
location, though it will be more convenient for a large number of
humans and also the elves and the orcs, will be even further away for
the dwarfs.
> How about "discovering" a healing spring or shrine? Or a magic herb
> that promotes youth, health (my partner in crime says 'penis length'
> but I think he's been reading too much spam)?
>
> Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
Again, it's already teeming with uncanny stuff and I'm sure some of
the religions that find it holy believe it does all sorts of health
and vitality enhancing things. This is why they come on pilgrimage to
the mountain. Magic springs bursting out of the hitherto dry rock come
right at the end, as a significant part of the happy ending.
But thanks for the patron idea, that'll keep them busy persuing a red
herring for a while.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
> > >They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
> > >interesting and unusual.
>
> The only thing I can think of is "prayer cloths". Some small
> "blessed" item that can be shipped all over and sold cheaply
> to the masses.
>
> Unless you specifically want to avoid scams.
>
> (...)
> > How about "discovering" a healing spring or shrine? Or a magic herb
> > that promotes youth, health (my partner in crime says 'penis length'
> > but I think he's been reading too much spam)?
>
> Ah...Ah...why not? (The only "good" thing about a useless e-mail
> in box lately is that I haven't noticed any 'penis length' spam.) Combine
> that with my idea...sell genuine prayer panties...used by virgins on
> that very mountain and removed by impressively hung and healthy
> young men so now the panties are magic...or something...
>
> And you know someone will google me some day and I'm
> *really* gonna regret sending this out. <g>
>
> --Julie
I hope you don't regret it because it was very useful. I'd thought
that some of the less scrupulous villagers could indeed sell magic
pebbles, or dried herbs gathered from the slopes of the magic
mountain, but I hadn't thought of scrificial panties, which I'm sure
would sell like hot cakes to the right customers. :-)
Thanks
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
> On 25 Sep 2003 08:31:30 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>
> >Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> >my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
>
*g* The _Eye of Argon_ is unique; there can be no local equivalent.
However, they could do a literary/music festival. That would bring in
some extra visitors and some much needed cash.
Helen
> minoti baro wrote:
> >
> > - create a gold rush in some other part of the land and send your
> > characters on a wild wild west kinda adventure
> >
>
> Or fake a gold strike locally and make a killing catering to the in rush
> of prospectors from everywhere else. Has the advantage of being more
> reliable...and of a dramatic climax when the prospectors realise they've
> been hoodwinked.
Interesting idea, but unfortunately the story is about saving the
mountain, which is accomplished at the end, and a gold rush to some
other part of the area would take the story off in a completely
different direction. (The end of the story is already fixed and is
not subject to change.)
On the other hand... <fx: lightbulb switching on> Certain of the
villagers could decide that saving the mountain is a lost cause and
decide to create a new source of wealth for themeselves by the fake
gold strike method. A nice bit of alarm and confusion potential
there. (Ob Heartbeat (TV show in the UK): This would be the
Greengrass character, with yet another "foolproof" scheme, and yet
again doomed to failure. Note to self, try to avoid it seeming like
the cliche it's become in Heartbeat.)
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
>
> Is it really necessary to raise more money, or would lowering the
> asking price do? (Cue sudden emergence of an ancient curse/terrifying
> monster sightings/villagers running around in silly costumes/night on
> bald mountain scene for potential buyers...)
>
There are already too many real ghosts and uncanny creatures haunting
the mountain for this to work. That's why it's holy and a desireable
purchase. I suppose the only thing they could do to put the buyer off
would be to make it un-magic, but that would defeat the object of the
exercise as the pilgrims would not longer want to come and climb it.
They'd be cutting their own throats.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
> In article <a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com>,
>
> [...]
>
> > [1] The Earth Mages have assured him that this is possible and they've
> > given him a quote for the job.
>
> Are the Earth Mages susceptible to a number of stout lads calling around
> and educating them about the inadvisability of doing said job? :)
>
> What's the equivalent of plonking yourself down in front of the
> bulldozers?
>
Aha! Yes, they could certainly try a protest of that kind? (I wonder
who's going to be the Swampy[1] character? :-)) It's not going to
work in the long run, but it'll be a nice delaying tactic. I think
the Earth Mages wield sufficient magic that they're not going to be
intimidated by any number of stout lads, especially as the Earth Mages
are not local, so can't have their families or property threatened.
Helen
[1] For non-UKians, a young man made briefly famous by his protest
against the new runways at Manchester Airport. Or was it a ring road?
Can't remember now.
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
> On 26 Sep 2003 amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote in
> news:a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com in
> rec.arts.sf.composition:
>
> [...]
>
> > Longleton
>
> I keep reading this as Longle-ton, which sounds dreadfully
> silly.
You're reading it correctly; it *is* pronounced Longle-ton. What's
wrong with that? The "ton" on the end gets swallowed at bit, in the
usual British way, as in Wolverhampton and indeed Congleton, which is
a little town in Cheshire and where I got the name from. Ooops no,
what I mean is that "Longleton" is a corruption of "Long Lake Town"
and that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :-)
Please tell me that it's really Long-leton! (And if
> it is, could I talk you into spelling it <Longleaton> or <Long
> Leton>?)
>
> [...]
>
> Brian
It isn't Longleaton, that would be far too flat and ordinary a name.
Sorry and all that.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
> On 26 Sep 2003 mary_...@cix.co.uk (Mary Gentle) wrote in
> news:memo.2003092...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com in
> rec.arts.sf.composition:
>
>
> Step right up, madam, to the baptismal fontinella, filled to
> the brim with holy limburger. Is it to be full immersion, or
> just a cheesy dip?
>
> > but I
> > really wouldn't have been surprised to find Longleton,
> > pronounced Longle-ton, on a UK road map...
>
> I'll have to see if I can come up with an even halfway
> reasonable etymology; off the top of my head I can't.
>
said in another post, there is a Congleton, which to my eye is neither
more nor less silly.
As I don't even know what language my people speak, though I'm
representing it with English, I think problems of etymology are
irrelvant.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
It's a nice idea, but the ending of the book is fixed, I'm afraid.
The villagers raise the money to gazump the original buyer, then
there's a bit a last minute wheeler dealing and shenanigans. The
villagers have won, then there's a set back, then the dramatic ending
when the mountain moves (but not very far), then the happy ending.
Besides, the Earth Mages have really bitten off more than they can
chew in trying to move the mountain; adding a village as well really
would be beyond them and they know it, so they would tell the
villagers outright that it wasn't possible. Even if it was, if they
have extra weight to shift, then they'll increase their fee, so the
villagers would still have to raise a tidy sum, though, admittedly,
not as much as is required to buy the mountain.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
A nice idea! Unfortunately it's no good for my purposes. The pilgrims
would still go to the mountain (some of them are visiting the graves
of their dead heroes), even if it wasn't magic any more, and the magic
on its own is of no use to the villagers.
While I'm posting, I'd just like to thank everyone who's responded to
this thread. I've replied individually to some posts, but if I didn't
reply to yours, then please don't think it means your contribution
hasn't been noted. You've all been extremely helpful and all
suggestions have been saved for when I get to the appropriate
chapters. This has been a very useful brainstorming session for me
and even if the ideas weren't all suitable, it's got my mind working
in more interesting ways as a result of thinking why they *weren't* a
solution.
Thanks everyone
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Brian M. Scott
>"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote in message news:<Xns9402A197883DBs...@129.250.170.93>...
>> On 26 Sep 2003 mary_...@cix.co.uk (Mary Gentle) wrote in
>> news:memo.2003092...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com in
>> rec.arts.sf.composition:
[...]
>> > but I
>> > really wouldn't have been surprised to find Longleton,
>> > pronounced Longle-ton, on a UK road map...
>> I'll have to see if I can come up with an even halfway
>> reasonable etymology; off the top of my head I can't.
>I've just tried MultiMap, which couldn't find a Longleton, but as I
>said in another post, there is a Congleton, which to my eye is neither
>more nor less silly.
But your eye is untrained. <Congleton> is thought to be from Old
English *<cung> + <hyll> + <tún> 'homestead or village on the
round-topped hill'; OE *<cung> is attested only in place-names
but is probably related to Old Norse <kengr> 'a bend, a bight'.
I can neither find nor come up with anything at all for
<Longleton>, though <Long Leton> would be easy to justify.
>As I don't even know what language my people speak, though I'm
>representing it with English, I think problems of etymology are
>irrelvant.
Not really: if you're representing it as English, the names
should make sense as English names. Admittedly, there probably
aren't going to be many readers who care and are in a position to
judge, but it's the sort of thing that makes me grit my teeth,
because it would have been so easy to get right. (Think of Anna
FDD's reaction to bad Italian in otherwise well-researched
novels.)
Brian
Dorothy J Heydt
Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
>Not really: if you're representing it as English, the names
>should make sense as English names. Admittedly, there probably
>aren't going to be many readers who care and are in a position to
>judge, but it's the sort of thing that makes me grit my teeth,
>because it would have been so easy to get right. (Think of Anna
>FDD's reaction to bad Italian in otherwise well-researched
>novels.)
Or mine to bad Latin, and it isn't even my native tongue.
Dorothy J Heydt
>who's going to be the Swampy[1] character? :-))
>
>against the new runways at Manchester Airport. Or was it a ring road?
>Can't remember now.
You might make it intelligible to more non-UKians by describing
him as the "Arthur Dent character".
Brian M. Scott
>"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote in message news:<Xns94027B247A84Cs...@129.250.170.93>...
>> On 26 Sep 2003 amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote in
>> news:a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com in
>> rec.arts.sf.composition:
>> [...]
>> > Longleton
>> I keep reading this as Longle-ton, which sounds dreadfully
>> silly.
>You're reading it correctly; it *is* pronounced Longle-ton. What's
>wrong with that?
It's implausible in an English name. If I'd encountered it cold,
without the stimulus to think up the possible but still fairly
unlikely derivation below, it would have grated mildly throughout
the story, though not to the point of making me toss it if I were
sufficiently entertained otherwise; I've put up with much worse
from Modesitt.
There is *no* chance that it's from <Long Lake Town>. But on
further consideration I have finally managed to come up with a
possible (if not particularly likely) derivation. One can
imagine an Old English <Langhyll> 'long hill', a settlement on
which might have been called <Langhylltún>. (Simple <Hylltún> is
much more likely: old three-element names are very rare, and the
descriptive element <lang> isn't likely to be needed to identify
the place.) <Lang-> regularly (though by no means always)
becomes <Long-> except in the North, and loss of <h> isn't
unheard of (cf. <Windle> from <Windhull> 1201 'wind(y) hill',
<Wincle> from <Wynkehull> 1292 'Wineca's hill', <Whittle> 'white
hill', etc.), so OE <Langhylltún> can become Middle English
<Longilton> ca.1300 and eventually <Longleton>.
[...]
Brian
Neil Barnes
news:3f770153....@enews.newsguy.com:
> On 28 Sep 2003 04:45:35 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen)
> wrote:
>
>>"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote in message
>>news:<Xns94027B247A84Cs...@129.250.170.93>...
>
>>> On 26 Sep 2003 amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote in
>>> news:a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com in
>>> rec.arts.sf.composition:
>
>>> [...]
>
>>> > Longleton
>
>>> I keep reading this as Longle-ton, which sounds dreadfully
>>> silly.
>
>>You're reading it correctly; it *is* pronounced Longle-ton.
>>What's wrong with that?
>
> It's implausible in an English name. If I'd encountered it
> cold, without the stimulus to think up the possible but still
> fairly unlikely derivation below, it would have grated mildly
> throughout the story, though not to the point of making me
> toss it if I were sufficiently entertained otherwise; I've put
> up with much worse from Modesitt.
>
> There is *no* chance that it's from <Long Lake Town>.
[snip Brian's derivations]
Of course, it could be a 'new town' named by the political
flavour of the day :)
Neil
--
note - the email address in this message is valid but the
signal to noise ratio approaches -40dB. A more useful address
is a similar account at ntlworld-fullstop-com.
David Friedman
Or mine to a novel with a historical setting that gets prices wildly
wrong. Different things strike different people, and the ideal solution
is to do everything perfectly.
Maybe next book ... .
--
Remove NOSPAM to email
Also remove .invalid
www.daviddfriedman.com
Mary Gentle
(Brian M. Scott) wrote:
[...]
> There is *no* chance that it's from <Long Lake Town>. But on
> further consideration I have finally managed to come up with a
> possible (if not particularly likely) derivation. One can
> imagine an Old English <Langhyll> 'long hill', a settlement on
> which might have been called <Langhylltún>. (Simple <Hylltún> is
> much more likely: old three-element names are very rare, and the
> descriptive element <lang> isn't likely to be needed to identify
> the place.) <Lang-> regularly (though by no means always)
> becomes <Long-> except in the North, and loss of <h> isn't
> unheard of (cf. <Windle> from <Windhull> 1201 'wind(y) hill',
> <Wincle> from <Wynkehull> 1292 'Wineca's hill', <Whittle> 'white
> hill', etc.), so OE <Langhylltún> can become Middle English
> <Longilton> ca.1300 and eventually <Longleton>.
<applause!>
I knew you could do it. :)
Mary
Catja Pafort
> > I had thought that some people might pay to keep the cavalcade away.
> > :-) For example prudish communities, or those who wanted to be thought
> > to be above all that sort of thing. Or, as you say, the wives.
>
> Ah, even better! They have two money pots; if they get more than X
> amount in the "ride" moneypot, they'll ride through the town. Unless,
> of course, the people pitching money in the "don't ride" moneypot outbid
> them by putting more money in their pot than's in the "ride" pot. Keep
> a public tally of the totals, of course.
>
> And, depending on their ethics, no need for the public tally to be
> strictly accurate if it's not really a close call between the two....
At the Clarecraft Discworld events, it has become traditional to collect
for/against sending soft toys into orbit [1] with model rockets. The
for/against voting drives up donation levels.
However, I think the nudeness might be a bit too strong, as it's a small
community, unless it's clear that attitudes towards nudity are more lax
than the ones I'm used to.
Catja
Catja Pafort
[Helen]
> >You're right. That is the traditional method. Unfortunately, no one
> >in the past in the area around Longleton was far-sighted enough to
> >loose a suitable hoard of treasure somewhere were it could be found
> >again when desperately needed.
>
>
> Hm. Well, what about faking a treasure map and treasure hunt. This might
> get an eccentric treasure-hunter type to buy the whole mountain, which
> would at least get some time. Hm, maybe it would get time to go deal
> with a dragon to plant a treasure that would satisfy that eccentric....
>
> Or the scam might involve a piece of land that a good guy already owns,
> and could sell at inflated price, or trade the treasure rights for an
> interest in the mountian, or something.
Hmm, the treasure hunt would publicise the problem, and get lots of
people to the village, and willing to spend money there. Sounds like a
useful idea.
In any case, I think it's a problem that will be solved by a run of
smaller solutions, not a single found hoard.
Catja
Khiem Tran
> nguyen_k...@yahoo.com.au (Khiem Tran) wrote in message news:<6115c740.03092...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > Is it really necessary to raise more money, or would lowering the
> > asking price do? (Cue sudden emergence of an ancient curse/terrifying
> > monster sightings/villagers running around in silly costumes/night on
> > bald mountain scene for potential buyers...)
> >
> There are already too many real ghosts and uncanny creatures haunting
> the mountain for this to work.
Oh, really? And how do _they_ feel about being magicked half-way
across the country by a bunch of born-yesterday Earth Mages?
> That's why it's holy and a desireable
> purchase. I suppose the only thing they could do to put the buyer off
> would be to make it un-magic, but that would defeat the object of the
> exercise as the pilgrims would not longer want to come and climb it.
> They'd be cutting their own throats.
>
Maybe it's time for the Amalgamated Association of Revenants, Ghouls
and Haunts to step in (*). No Manifestation without Representation? No
Move in our Lifetime - and None After! I Float and I Vote? Move My
Mountain? Over my Dead Body! Oh, hang on, that's what you had mind...
(*) And they've got lawyers! And no doubt a few accountants...
Helen
> amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote in message news:<a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com>...
> > >
> > the mountain for this to work.
>
> Oh, really? And how do _they_ feel about being magicked half-way
> across the country by a bunch of born-yesterday Earth Mages?
>
get at least some of them on their side.
>
> Maybe it's time for the Amalgamated Association of Revenants, Ghouls
> and Haunts to step in (*). No Manifestation without Representation? No
> Move in our Lifetime - and None After! I Float and I Vote? Move My
> Mountain? Over my Dead Body! Oh, hang on, that's what you had mind...
>
> (*) And they've got lawyers! And no doubt a few accountants...
*And* if there's any buried treasure around, these are the creatures
who would know where it was.
Most useful, thanks.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
Except that the book was from the POV of Arthur Dent and, after his
failure to stop the demolition, he then went on to have lots of
interesting adventures which was the substance of the book, whereas
Swampy was briefly famous during the protest and then vanished back
into obscurity, never to be heard of again, except when someone on a
panel game says something like, "I wonder what happened to Swampy?"
As I already have my POV characters and story (which does not involve
them living in a system of tunnels for weeks on end), then it's a
Swampy I'm putting out a casting call for, not an Arthur Dent. If you
see what I mean.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
> On 28 Sep 2003 04:45:35 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>
> >You're reading it correctly; it *is* pronounced Longle-ton. What's
> >wrong with that?
>
> It's implausible in an English name. If I'd encountered it cold,
> without the stimulus to think up the possible but still fairly
> unlikely derivation below, it would have grated mildly throughout
> the story, though not to the point of making me toss it if I were
> sufficiently entertained otherwise; I've put up with much worse
> from Modesitt.
>
> There is *no* chance that it's from <Long Lake Town>.
You wanna bet? I will regard that as a challenge...
All the villagers were gathered in the square in front of the Golden
Lion Inn. The village band played a fanfare and there was a murmur of
anticipation as everyone turned and craned their necks to see the
King's Herald enter the square, followed by his official retinue.
People shuffled restlessly and tiny children were lifted onto their
father's shoulders, so that in the future they could tell their own
children that they had witnessed this historic event.
Another fanfare burst from the band as the herald mounted the podium
and then silence fell as he began his proclamation.
"It pleases his Majesty to grant this charter, enabling the village of
--" the herald hesitated. In later years, people tried to excuse what
happened next by saying that it was a careless scribe who had blotted
the charter, others blamed the weather, for spots of rain were falling
and perhaps one had fallen on the parchment and made the ink run, but
whatever the reason, the herald announced in a clear, carrying voice,
"-- of Longletown to hold a weekly market from this day henceforth."
There were cries of consternation from the crowd. "It's
Longlaketown!" someone called, "Can't you read!"
The herald looked again at the parchment. "I can't see and A or a K
here. It clearly says 'Longletown'. Do you want this charter read or
not?" he replied huffily.
An urgent debate ensued amongst the assembled villagers. It had taken
years of lobbying to get the charter granted, it might take months or
years to get it changed and the first market was planned for the
following week.
"All right," someone called out, "Longletown it is!"
And so from henceforth, the village of Longlaketown became known as
Longletown, which in its turn became the familar Longleton we all know
today.
[More realistic derivation snipped]
Thank you for your efforts, but the village was named for the lake.
It is situated at the head of said Longlake (which is significat both
in this book and the possible sequel, so I'm not altering the
geography) and so there is no way it would be named for a Long Hill.
Besides, there are no long hills in the neighbourhood and I have no
intention of putting one there.
Unless and until an editor who wishes to pay me money for the book
requests a change, the village will remain as Longleton, silly or
implausible as it may be in an expert's eyes.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Helen
I'm sorry the name of Longleton sets your teeth on edge, but your
suggestion of Longleaton was *not* suitable for my purposes; it sounds
far too ordinary and sensible for a comedy in which mountains can be
moved, buildings are sentient and can change at will, orcs and elves
have to share a dormitory and even the cooking stove has a mind of its
own. It is *not* the same as Anna's reaction to the bad Italian.
IIRC in that example any literate Italian (or person fluent in
Italian) reading the book would have cringed, no one but the expert
academic is going to think my name is implausible. Besides, people
shouldn't be reading comic fantasy if they want plausible. If Mary
was quite prepared to believe that the place might be found on a
British road map, that's good enough for me.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Mary Gentle
> b.s...@csuohio.edu (Brian M. Scott) wrote in message
> news:<3f76fb98....@enews.newsguy.com>...
> > On 28 Sep 2003 04:57:14 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
> >
> > >As I don't even know what language my people speak, though I'm
> > >representing it with English, I think problems of etymology are
> > >irrelvant.
> >
> > Not really: if you're representing it as English, the names
> > should make sense as English names. Admittedly, there probably
> > aren't going to be many readers who care and are in a position to
> > judge, but it's the sort of thing that makes me grit my teeth,
> > because it would have been so easy to get right. (Think of Anna
> > FDD's reaction to bad Italian in otherwise well-researched
> > novels.)
> >
> > Brian
>
> I'm sorry the name of Longleton sets your teeth on edge, but your
> suggestion of Longleaton was *not* suitable for my purposes; it sounds
> far too ordinary and sensible for a comedy in which mountains can be
> moved, buildings are sentient and can change at will, orcs and elves
> have to share a dormitory and even the cooking stove has a mind of its
> own.
For some reason the stove strikes me as the answer to the 'orcs-and-elves
sharing a dormitory' problem. Not that there'll be any elves there after
the first night... :)
>It is *not* the same as Anna's reaction to the bad Italian.
> IIRC in that example any literate Italian (or person fluent in
> Italian) reading the book would have cringed, no one but the expert
> academic is going to think my name is implausible. Besides, people
> shouldn't be reading comic fantasy if they want plausible. If Mary
> was quite prepared to believe that the place might be found on a
> British road map, that's good enough for me.
Given the average British road map, there isn't much that you _couldn't_
get away with, frankly (except to the knowledgeable linguists). Hazelbury
Plucknett, anybody? Wookey Hole? (Somerset is particularly good. :)
Plus, whereas 'Longleaton' may be perfectly plausible from the linguistic
point of view, if I read it in a novel I'd just think, "oh, somebody's
mixed 'the Lions of Longleat' with Long Eaton; couldn't they be bothered
to make up a better name?"
Cultural expectations...
Mary
Brian M. Scott
[...]
>It is *not* the same as Anna's reaction to the bad Italian.
>IIRC in that example any literate Italian (or person fluent in
>Italian) reading the book would have cringed, no one but the expert
>academic is going to think my name is implausible.
I'm not an expert academic in the relevant field; I'm a
knowledgeable amateur. Very knowledgeable, I think, but still an
amateur.
> Besides, people
>shouldn't be reading comic fantasy if they want plausible.
Oh, come now: you know as well as I do that some things have to
be plausible even in comic fantasy. Your characters have
believable motivations, don't they? I suspect from things that
you've said that your world obeys some sorts of reasonably
consistent rules.
Actually, what was bothering me wasn't the implausibility of
<Longleton> per se; it was the fact that it's almost but not
quite right. If it were <Poodle's Haven> or <Cheeriopippip> the
implausibility would presumably be part of the fun.
[...]
Brian
Brian M. Scott
>b.s...@csuohio.edu (Brian M. Scott) wrote in message news:<3f770153....@enews.newsguy.com>...
>> On 28 Sep 2003 04:45:35 -0700, amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
>> >You're reading it correctly; it *is* pronounced Longle-ton. What's
>> >wrong with that?
>> It's implausible in an English name. If I'd encountered it cold,
>> without the stimulus to think up the possible but still fairly
>> unlikely derivation below, it would have grated mildly throughout
>> the story, though not to the point of making me toss it if I were
>> sufficiently entertained otherwise; I've put up with much worse
>> from Modesitt.
>> There is *no* chance that it's from <Long Lake Town>.
>You wanna bet? I will regard that as a challenge...
Yes. It's a fact, fictional urban-legend-making to the contrary
notwithstanding. (And <-ton> in place-names does not come from
an earlier <-town>.)
[...]
Brian
Brian D. Fernald
amd...@yahoo.co.uk said...
> My characters have a problem.[1] Their local magic mountain is being
> sold and they are trying to raise the money to buy it themselves.
> I've been racking my brains trying to help them out, without much
> success so far. They need some methods of raising funds, preferably
> interesting and unusual. I was thinking of methods on the lines of
> the WI nude calendar, but that's been done and what is more has been
> made into a film, so is no longer obscure enough to pinch.
>
> magical means are out. They are already doing all the usual things
> like raffles and having a summer fair/fete and dance and asking for
> donations from pilgrims who come to visit the mountain. I think they
> can invent the concept of sponsering, eg sponsored walks and they can
> sell souvenirs of the mountain. But, as the villagers don't have much
> money themselves, I really need ways they can raise money from further
> afield. Although a late 19C early 20C-ish sort of tech level, they
> don't yet have mass media like radio and TV, though
> newspapers/broadsheets are no doubt available, if that would help.
>
> Has anybody come across novel and effective fund raising methods that
> my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
>
1.) Sell subscriptions to the wealthy.
2.) Build a nice retreat, and get a doctor to claim its wonderful
healing powers.
3.) Build a 'resort' hotel, however rustic
4.) Open up a ski slope
5.) Get a major poet to pen verses extolling the glory of the mountain
and then distribute it.
--
BDF.
FSOBN.
"Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus"
R. L.
>nguyen_k...@yahoo.com.au (Khiem Tran) wrote in message news:<6115c740.03092...@posting.google.com>...
>> amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote in message news:<a2c9fbba.03092...@posting.google.com>...
>> > >
>> > There are already too many real ghosts and uncanny creatures haunting
>> > the mountain for this to work.
>>
>> Oh, really? And how do _they_ feel about being magicked half-way
>> across the country by a bunch of born-yesterday Earth Mages?
>>
>Ooooh...! Thank you. I hadn't thought of this. The villagers could
>get at least some of them on their side.
>>
>> Maybe it's time for the Amalgamated Association of Revenants, Ghouls
>> and Haunts to step in (*). No Manifestation without Representation? No
>> Move in our Lifetime - and None After! I Float and I Vote? Move My
>> Mountain? Over my Dead Body! Oh, hang on, that's what you had mind...
>>
>> (*) And they've got lawyers! And no doubt a few accountants...
Beautiful!
>
>*And* if there's any buried treasure around, these are the creatures
>who would know where it was.
Good point.
What if the treasure or natural jewels or whatever is so deep below
solid rock that nobody can detect it or dig down to it. But when the
rock/mountian is moved, it becomes accessible. So the village gets the
treasure money and no longer needs the mountain and the pesky tourists.
Does the kingdom have laws about how deep into the ground the owner's
property rights go? If the world has magic that could remove land all
the way down to hell, leaving a rather dangerous pit, I expect there
would be laws about at what depth private ownership stopped and Crown
ownership (or Village?) began.
R.L.
David Friedman
R. L. <sssss...@sssssspam.comsssssss> wrote:
> What if the treasure or natural jewels or whatever is so deep below
> solid rock that nobody can detect it or dig down to it. But when the
> rock/mountian is moved, it becomes accessible. So the village gets the
> treasure money and no longer needs the mountain and the pesky tourists.
Or else, having gotten the fortune revealed when the mountain was moved,
they buy the mountain back and hire the earth mages to put it back where
they found it.
That could actually work. The villagers do all sorts of ingenious things
along lines discussed, almost raise enough money but not quite. They are
standing around in defeat looking at the large flat area of dirt where
the mountain used to be. A few kids start playing in it, despite the
disapproving looks of their elders. One of them comes back to show his
mother something round and shiny that he found. ...
Aquarion
wrote:
They normally, in fact, come from a word for "Farm". Kensing's Ton,
Isling's Ton etc.
Now you're going to ask me where I got that from, aren't you?
Um. Sec...
--
Aq
Brian M. Scott
news:pcam41x...@reef.water.gkhs.net in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:07:31 GMT, b.s...@csuohio.edu
> (Brian M. Scott) wrote:
[...]
>>(And <-ton> in place-names does
>>not come from an earlier <-town>.)
> They normally, in fact, come from a word for "Farm".
> Kensing's Ton, Isling's Ton etc.
Close, but not quite. The etymon is Old English <tún>, which
had a variety of senses in early place-names. The original
etymological sense is something like 'enclosure', but in most
early place-names the real sense is either 'homestead' or
'hamlet'. Sometimes the first element is a personal name, but
very often it isn't. <Kingston>, for instance, is from Old
English <cyninges tún> 'king's hamlet', Newton (when not a
later, Middle English formation) is from OE <(on) niwan túne>
'(at) new settlement', <Garston> is from OE <gærs> 'grass',
and so on. In some cases it's a personal name modified by an
<-ing> suffix meaning something like 'followers of, people
of'. On the face of it this is the case in <Kensington> and
<Islington>, but I'd need to check some references to be sure.
In particular, the Domesday Book spelling <Chenesitune>
suggests that <Kensington> was originally <Cenesiges tún>
'Cenesige's homestead' rather than <Cenesiginges tún>
'settlement of Cenesige's people', though it's also possible
that the Domesday Book spelling is misleading.
[...]
Brian
Catja Pafort
> Besides, there are no long hills in the neighbourhood and I have no
> intention of putting one there.
And you know what would happen if you did. It would run away in shame.
How could it, a mere hill, psss muster before the eyes of the mighty
magical mountain?
<watches hill shrink shamefacedly into the distance>
Catja
Catja Pafort
> Actually, what was bothering me wasn't the implausibility of
> <Longleton> per se; it was the fact that it's almost but not
> quite right. If it were <Poodle's Haven> or <Cheeriopippip> the
> implausibility would presumably be part of the fun.
At the same time, I thought it sounded perfectly plausible. In fact,
there hasn't been a single person
used-to-British-placenames-without-extensive-linguistic-training
speaking up about its implausibility, which puts it into a different
category: _plausible as a placename to British ears_ but not part of
*this* reality and *this* language.
And that, in a work of fiction, seems perfectly acceptable. An FTL drive
has to work by the same rules - put together that it sounds fine within
the confines of the story, but, of course, won't pass muster by a
physicist - AND IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Catja
John F. Eldredge
Hash: SHA1
Some American place names are just as strange. I used to live five
or six miles from a community named "Black Gnat". There is a town in
east Tennessee named "Nameless", because the local residents couldn't
agree on what name to give it.
There is a neighborhood here in Nashville marked on street maps as
"Mud Tavern", although I have never heard anyone call it that. I
once looked into the origin of this name, and found that, back around
1800, a new arrival to Nashville built a tavern there out of adobe.
It would be difficult to find a less-suitable building material for
Nashville. For much of each year, he must have had to go around
patching the walls on an all-but-daily basis.
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--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Brian M. Scott
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>[...]
And it is: the original name was <Cenesiges tún>
'hamlet/settlement of Cenesige's people'. The name of the
Islington in Greater London is misleading: the oldest known form
is <Gislandun> ca.1000, Old English <Gíslan dún> 'Gisla's hill',
becoming <Iseldon> 1197 and eventually <Islington>, by analogy
with the many names in <-ington>. (The Islington in Norfolk is
<Elesinges tún> 'hamlet/settlement of Esela's people'.)
Brian
Medievalbk
If buildings are sentient, then you can have sentient documents.
The A, K and W lifted themselves off of the parchment to go wak somebody up the
side of their head.
Or it was Long Lake Towne, and W A K E lifted off of the document to break
someone's sleeping spell.
Just my suggestions.
If you want Longleton, you can justify its use any damn way you please.
I want to know more about those sentient buildings. If they get pissed off, do
they suddenly lock all the doors to the necessariums?
William Taylor
Helen
>
> For some reason the stove strikes me as the answer to the 'orcs-and-elves
> sharing a dormitory' problem. Not that there'll be any elves there after
> the first night... :)
>
nose far more than the orcs. But they're all supposed to be living
peacefully together, the war's been over for some years, so the warden
has to make sure that -- despite provocation -- nothing untoward
happens to any of the guests.
> >It is *not* the same as Anna's reaction to the bad Italian.
> > IIRC in that example any literate Italian (or person fluent in
> > Italian) reading the book would have cringed, no one but the expert
> > academic is going to think my name is implausible. Besides, people
> > shouldn't be reading comic fantasy if they want plausible. If Mary
> > was quite prepared to believe that the place might be found on a
> > British road map, that's good enough for me.
>
> Given the average British road map, there isn't much that you _couldn't_
> get away with, frankly (except to the knowledgeable linguists). Hazelbury
> Plucknett, anybody? Wookey Hole? (Somerset is particularly good. :)
>
> Plus, whereas 'Longleaton' may be perfectly plausible from the linguistic
> point of view, if I read it in a novel I'd just think, "oh, somebody's
> mixed 'the Lions of Longleat' with Long Eaton; couldn't they be bothered
> to make up a better name?"
>
> Cultural expectations...
>
> Mary
Thank you. At least it worked for one reader. :-)
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Brian M. Scott
(Catja Pafort) wrote:
>Brian M. Scott wrote:
>> Actually, what was bothering me wasn't the implausibility of
>> <Longleton> per se; it was the fact that it's almost but not
>> quite right. If it were <Poodle's Haven> or <Cheeriopippip> the
>> implausibility would presumably be part of the fun.
>At the same time, I thought it sounded perfectly plausible. In fact,
>there hasn't been a single person
>used-to-British-placenames-without-extensive-linguistic-training
>speaking up about its implausibility, which puts it into a different
>category: _plausible as a placename to British ears_ but not part of
>*this* reality and *this* language.
>And that, in a work of fiction, seems perfectly acceptable.
When something can easily be fixed, it seems to me a failure of
craft. In this case it's admittedly a very minor flaw that I
frankly didn't expect to see changed when I made the original
comment, as you might guess from my wording at the time, but it's
still a flaw. (Compared with Modesitt's place-name <Liedwahr>,
which he clearly was thinking of as 'Truesong' -- it's positively
benign!)
>An FTL drive
>has to work by the same rules - put together that it sounds fine within
>the confines of the story, but, of course, won't pass muster by a
>physicist - AND IT DOESN'T MATTER.
It might matter to the physicist. <g> But the situations aren't
actually analogous: the physicist probably can't be satisfied,
but the place-name expert can.
Brian
Helen
> > my characters can adapt to their circumstances?
> >
>
> 1.) Sell subscriptions to the wealthy.
> 2.) Build a nice retreat, and get a doctor to claim its wonderful
> healing powers.
> 3.) Build a 'resort' hotel, however rustic
> 4.) Open up a ski slope
> 5.) Get a major poet to pen verses extolling the glory of the mountain
> and then distribute it.
I could do some variant of the first. "If you give us money enabling
us to buy the magic mountain, you can have special visiting privileges
(details to be ascertained in the future) not allowed to ordinary
pilgrims." and 5 is good. Poem or ballad could be sold on a
broadsheet in nearby towns. Thanks.
Helen
--
http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk/
Chris Dollin
> Some American place names are just as strange. I used to live five
> or six miles from a community named "Black Gnat". There is a town in
> east Tennessee named "Nameless", because the local residents couldn't
> agree on what name to give it.
When I need a village name in _Breakouts_, I will be tempted to call
it _Cat's Bottom_, then wait for the Muse to tell me the name of the
related village a little way off.
--
Hedgehog's Snout
http://www.electric-hedgehog.net/reviews/2003-03-merlin-conspiracy.html
Irina Rempt
> When I need a village name in _Breakouts_, I will be tempted to call
> it _Cat's Bottom_, then wait for the Muse to tell me the name of the
> related village a little way off.
I have a village called Valdie Sali, "Thingy-on-Valda". This is where a
famous historian came from, so every village in the Frozen North that's
anywhere near the river will say that, of course, *it* is Valdie Sali.
In fact there was no actual village called that when said historian was
alive, but she used to say that to make it clear that she was really
from the middle of nowhere.
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina/
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
http://www.valdyas.org/~irina/foundobjects/ Latest: 11-May-2003
Mary Gentle
amd...@yahoo.co.uk (Helen) wrote:
I'm thinking Cacafonix...
Oh, is that my coat? How kind!
Mary
Mary Gentle
(Graydon) wrote:
> In <a2c9fbba.03093...@posting.google.com>,
> Helen <amd...@yahoo.co.uk> onsendan:
> > I could do some variant of the first. "If you give us money enabling
> > us to buy the magic mountain, you can have special visiting privileges
> > (details to be ascertained in the future) not allowed to ordinary
> > pilgrims." and 5 is good. Poem or ballad could be sold on a
> > broadsheet in nearby towns. Thanks.
>
> My fundamental difficulty is with the idea that a long standing,
> massively significant, prestige confering magic mountain is available
> for sale. It seems very unlikely, even now, and totally unlikely in an
> authoritarian agrarian culture.
It's the aristocracy. They'll sell anything.
Mary
m.baro
Mary Gentle wrote:
> It's the aristocracy. They'll sell anything.
At least they aren't going around beating up villagers for not paying
taxes... right?
-Min
m.baro
Shoot. Forgot about the mafia, and world leaders.