When is it recommended to start using synthetic oil (Mobil 1) for a new car?
Steve K. Lee
with Mobil 1 and they said that they don't recommend using it until my
car's a bit more broken-in. I have a little over 12,500KM (approx.
7770miles) on my Pilot. When I asked when I can start using Mobil1
and the advisor said that, that he doens't know will find out for me
and get back to me.
When asked for the reason to wait and I was told that since my car's
still relatively new, it's recommended that the valves and seals in
the engine be given enough time for them to properly develop their
natural wear patterns. And since Mobil1's very slippery, it won't
allow my engine to do that properly. What do you guys think? Does it
make sense? When did you guys start using Mobil1 when you got your
new cars?
As well, is the OEM Honda oil filter still alright to be used with
Mobil1 or should I be opting for something different because of the
different fluid characteristics/viscosity of the synthetic oil
compared to the regular dyno OEM Honda oil? If so, what oil filter do
you guys recommend?
Finally, what do you guys think about K&N air filters? It seems that
people using Mobil1 or other synthetic oil usually use that air filter
also. Can it be in anyway detrimental to the engine at all? Your
input or thoughts would be appreciated.
StevenM639
>still relatively new, it's recommended that the valves and seals in
>the engine be given enough time for them to properly develop their
>natural wear patterns. And since Mobil1's very slippery, it won't
>allow my engine to do that properly. What do you guys think? Does it
>make sense? When did you guys start using Mobil1 when you got your
>new cars?
>
>As well, is the OEM Honda oil filter still alright to be used with
>Mobil1 or should I be opting for something different because of the
>different fluid characteristics/viscosity of the synthetic oil
>compared to the regular dyno OEM Honda oil? If so, what oil filter do
>you guys recommend?
>
That was always my understanding. But then I became confused when a major parts
chain started selling engines prefilled with Mobil1. You would think that if it
was the case, they wouldn't be doing that. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
George Macdonald
wrote:
>I called up my dealer to inquire whether they provided oil changes
>with Mobil 1 and they said that they don't recommend using it until my
>car's a bit more broken-in. I have a little over 12,500KM (approx.
>7770miles) on my Pilot. When I asked when I can start using Mobil1
>and the advisor said that, that he doens't know will find out for me
>and get back to me.
>
>When asked for the reason to wait and I was told that since my car's
>still relatively new, it's recommended that the valves and seals in
>the engine be given enough time for them to properly develop their
>natural wear patterns. And since Mobil1's very slippery, it won't
>allow my engine to do that properly. What do you guys think? Does it
>make sense? When did you guys start using Mobil1 when you got your
>new cars?
Most people seem to think the 3rd oil change is about right for switching
to synthetic with a normal production engine. Blueprinted engines seem to
use it right from the factory.
>As well, is the OEM Honda oil filter still alright to be used with
>Mobil1 or should I be opting for something different because of the
>different fluid characteristics/viscosity of the synthetic oil
>compared to the regular dyno OEM Honda oil? If so, what oil filter do
>you guys recommend?
The "fluid characteristics" of synthetics are not really that much
different from petroleum based oil - 5W/30 is 5W/30 in both... within the
spec range. I'd recommend the Honda filters as long as they are made by
Filtech (written on the can) or Purolator Pure One if not.
>Finally, what do you guys think about K&N air filters? It seems that
>people using Mobil1 or other synthetic oil usually use that air filter
>also. Can it be in anyway detrimental to the engine at all? Your
>input or thoughts would be appreciated.
There's a lot of controvery there - some say they are fine; others, who
have had oil analysis done, claim they've seen much higher oil
contamination... in the form of silicates. I'd be wary.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
Robert Upward
"Steve K. Lee" <plz_ask@if_needed.com> wrote in message
news:45o13v8pr00pa790a...@4ax.com...
> I called up my dealer to inquire whether they provided oil changes
> with Mobil 1 and they said that they don't recommend using it until my
> car's a bit more broken-in. I have a little over 12,500KM (approx.
> 7770miles) on my Pilot. When I asked when I can start using Mobil1
> and the advisor said that, that he doens't know will find out for me
> and get back to me.
I've been using Mobil 1 in both my 01 Prelude, and 98 Corolla since
their first oil changes with no ill effects. In fact, where I live
(Orangeville, Ont high of -15.6 C yesterday) a mechanic told me that the
switch to synthetics was more benificial to my engines and would probably
prevent some of the wear that occurs by using mineral based oils comes from
cold starting a motor on mornings like we've had these last few weeks.
>
> When asked for the reason to wait and I was told that since my car's
> still relatively new, it's recommended that the valves and seals in
> the engine be given enough time for them to properly develop their
> natural wear patterns. And since Mobil1's very slippery, it won't
> allow my engine to do that properly. What do you guys think? Does it
> make sense? When did you guys start using Mobil1 when you got your
> new cars?
Strange that Porsche, Mercedes, even Corvettes leave the factory with
Mobil 1. It sound like the idea of breaking in a motor with mineral oil is
an old wives tail.
>
> As well, is the OEM Honda oil filter still alright to be used with
> Mobil1 or should I be opting for something different because of the
> different fluid characteristics/viscosity of the synthetic oil
> compared to the regular dyno OEM Honda oil? If so, what oil filter do
> you guys recommend?
OEM Honda filters are generally very good, but I have noticed some
difference in quality depending on where they are made (Japan, USA, Canada)
so you made need to match that. I've been pleased with NAPA, and Mobil 1
filters. If you're looking for a good read on the subject, try
http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml
>
> Finally, what do you guys think about K&N air filters? It seems that
> people using Mobil1 or other synthetic oil usually use that air filter
> also. Can it be in anyway detrimental to the engine at all? Your
> input or thoughts would be appreciated.
I swear by them. I've had them in everything I've ever owned, including
a 1988 Corolla with 440,000 kms on it. I find that they improve top end
power a little bit, but it's noticeable. They lower emissions by allowing
more air into the cylinders it allows for a more complete burn of the air
fuel mixture and makes life a little easier on your catalytic converter and
your O2 sensors especially with our "dirty" Canadian gas. Also they will
improve your fuel economy slightly. During mostly highway driving I saw and
improvement of about .1L/100km or about 2 mpg
Hope this helps
Rob
Tjacobs
> On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:01:49 GMT, Steve K. Lee <plz_ask@if_needed.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I called up my dealer to inquire whether they provided oil changes
> >with Mobil 1 and they said that they don't recommend using it until my
> >car's a bit more broken-in. I have a little over 12,500KM (approx.
> >7770miles) on my Pilot. When I asked when I can start using Mobil1
> >and the advisor said that, that he doens't know will find out for me
> >and get back to me.
> >
> >When asked for the reason to wait and I was told that since my car's
> >still relatively new, it's recommended that the valves and seals in
> >the engine be given enough time for them to properly develop their
> >natural wear patterns. And since Mobil1's very slippery, it won't
> >allow my engine to do that properly. What do you guys think? Does it
> >make sense? When did you guys start using Mobil1 when you got your
> >new cars?
>
Try this web site on the issue of filters. Somebody posted it the other day.
The site hase a good evaluation of filter and was wery interesting.
http://www.ntpog.org/index.shtml.
George Macdonald
wrote:
>fammacd=!SPAM^noth...@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3e30fadf...@news.tellurian.com>...
>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:01:49 GMT, Steve K. Lee <plz_ask@if_needed.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I called up my dealer to inquire whether they provided oil changes
>> >with Mobil 1 and they said that they don't recommend using it until my
>> >car's a bit more broken-in. I have a little over 12,500KM (approx.
>> >7770miles) on my Pilot. When I asked when I can start using Mobil1
>> >and the advisor said that, that he doens't know will find out for me
>> >and get back to me.
>> >
>> >When asked for the reason to wait and I was told that since my car's
>> >still relatively new, it's recommended that the valves and seals in
>> >the engine be given enough time for them to properly develop their
>> >natural wear patterns. And since Mobil1's very slippery, it won't
>> >allow my engine to do that properly. What do you guys think? Does it
>> >make sense? When did you guys start using Mobil1 when you got your
>> >new cars?
>>
>
>Try this web site on the issue of filters. Somebody posted it the other day.
>The site hase a good evaluation of filter and was wery interesting.
>http://www.ntpog.org/index.shtml.
I'd add that the criticism of the Filtech made Honda filter on that site
may be a red herring. It's said to be very fuzzy and in fact, this may be
a design feature and a sign that the filter media is of high quality.
George Macdonald
<robupwa...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> Strange that Porsche, Mercedes, even Corvettes leave the factory with
>Mobil 1. It sound like the idea of breaking in a motor with mineral oil is
>an old wives tail.
The Porsche certainly and I *think" the Corvette are blueprinted engines -
the Mercedes may be also. In higher priced cars one expects a higher
precision of engineering fit from a new engine. In some cases they go the
extra yard and do a form of bench break-in at the factory.
Henry Kwan
extent about using dino oil first. However, those dealers say Honda uses
special break in oil, I highly doubt this and I've never seen "break in"
oil....so I strongly believe it's just regular dino oil. Anyway, safe to put
your mobil1 into it by now for sure...and honda filters work just
fine...just remember to change your oil routinely.
HK
JETman
George Macdonald wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:55:53 GMT, "Robert Upward"
> <robupwa...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Strange that Porsche, Mercedes, even Corvettes leave the factory with
> >Mobil 1. It sound like the idea of breaking in a motor with mineral oil is
> >an old wives tail.
>
> The Porsche certainly and I *think" the Corvette are blueprinted engines -
> the Mercedes may be also. In higher priced cars one expects a higher
> precision of engineering fit from a new engine. In some cases they go the
> extra yard and do a form of bench break-in at the factory.
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
I have always maintained that the first 100 miles are critical and an
oil change after this distance is achieved will yield many thousands of
miles of use later.
Bench "break-in's" would seem to reinforce this theory. But on mass
produced cars it is something where the consumer should take the initiative.
I would NEVER drive a new car more than 1K without changing the oil and
multiple changes prior to reaching the 1K point are even better...
--
Regards,
JT (Residing in Austin, Texas)
Just Tooling Down The Internet Superhighway With my G4.......
Henry Kwan
the most part.....and i'm not over exaggerating.
Pete
JETman <jeta...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3E32D3C6...@worldnet.att.net...
>
> I would NEVER drive a new car more than 1K without changing the oil and
> multiple changes prior to reaching the 1K point are even better...
So why do so many manufacturers clearly state in the owner's manual NOT to
replace the original oil until 5 or 7K miles?
Just curious.
Thanks,
Pete
gypcees
out of my accord rather than the 300K I expect.
I'm at 267K now, only changing oil every 3.5 to 5 or 6 K.
"JETman" <jeta...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3E32D3C6...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
Stephen Bigelow
"Henry Kwan" <henry...@sympatico.canospam> wrote in message
news:NbAY9.55129$_N5.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I would say to put it in during the 3rd oil change. I agree to a certain
> extent about using dino oil first. However, those dealers say Honda uses
> special break in oil, I highly doubt this and I've never seen "break in"
> oil....
That might be because you're not an OEM engine builder, and would never have
a use for it.
JETman
Because most people don't want to...
JETman
majority of Hondas begin to have serious wear problems after 150K.
You're doin' ok though...
JT
Stephen Bigelow
> Mileage always varies. I've seen a lot of cars come 'n go and the
> majority of Hondas begin to have serious wear problems after 150K.
Serious wear..um....where?
JETman
If you ever should blow a head gasket, you will find a substatial ridge
at the top of the cylinders...
BTDT
George Macdonald
<henry...@sympatico.canospam> wrote:
>I would say to put it in during the 3rd oil change. I agree to a certain
>extent about using dino oil first. However, those dealers say Honda uses
>special break in oil, I highly doubt this and I've never seen "break in"
>oil....so I strongly believe it's just regular dino oil.
Honda does insist that there is a special oil here:
<https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/login.asp?page=/Maintenance/maint_faqs.asp>.
This site probably requires a registered login.
> Anyway, safe to put
>your mobil1 into it by now for sure...and honda filters work just
>fine...just remember to change your oil routinely.
Many of us prefer not to use the Honda filters made by Fram.
George Macdonald
Honda advises waiting:
<https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/login.asp?page=/Maintenance/maint_faqs.asp>.
Also see <http://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/65043.phtml> for a post by
Randy Hubbard, an experienced engine designer, as relates to Audis.
JETman
The first site requires a password - strike one
The second is AUDI, one of the biggest producers of crappy cars...
Sorry, but I'll go with my own experience over forty-five years of
dealing with engines and lubricants...
xxxxxxxx
>
>
> Stephen Bigelow wrote:
> >
> > "JETman" <jeta...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:3E331CAA...@worldnet.att.net...
> > > Mileage always varies. I've seen a lot of cars come 'n go and the
> > > majority of Hondas begin to have serious wear problems after 150K.
> >
> > Serious wear..um....where?
>
>
>
> If you ever should blow a head gasket, you will find a substatial ridge
> at the top of the cylinders...
>
> BTDT
.except that the rings are properly seated ..
`86 accord 265,000 miles and only uses liter of oil at 3000 miles ?
ed/ontario
Stephen Bigelow
Of course, that invalidates any data within
I registered in under a minute, using no personal information.
"Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated
for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns
and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine
long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first
maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your
specific driving conditions."
> The second is AUDI, one of the biggest producers of crappy cars...
Yeah, those 2.2l 5's wear out after 350,000 miles or so.
Junk!
*s*
JETman
xxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> JETman <jeta...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:3E333948...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
> > Stephen Bigelow wrote:
> > >
> > > "JETman" <jeta...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > > news:3E331CAA...@worldnet.att.net...
> > > > Mileage always varies. I've seen a lot of cars come 'n go and the
> > > > majority of Hondas begin to have serious wear problems after 150K.
> > >
> > > Serious wear..um....where?
> >
> >
> >
> > If you ever should blow a head gasket, you will find a substatial ridge
> > at the top of the cylinders...
> >
> > BTDT
> Sighs ...you`ll find THAT with any car at that milege ? it means nothing
> .except that the rings are properly seated ..
>
> `86 accord 265,000 miles and only uses liter of oil at 3000 miles ?
> ed/ontario
And remove that head to replace a head gasket and you will see smoke
beyond your dreams upon reassembly if you do not replace the rings...
David Brodbeck
> And remove that head to replace a head gasket and you will see smoke
> beyond your dreams upon reassembly if you do not replace the rings...
Why would that happen if it weren't smoking to begin with?
JETman
The block and cylinders become distorted from retorquing the heads thus
unseating the rings. In fact this very subject was discussed here a
couple of weeks ago.
I have a CRX with 161K sitting in the back yard where someone tried to
avoid the unavoidable...
pars
>
> My 10 year old Civic Si had had regular oil changes every 3K miles. At
> about 60K miles, I added a K&N filter. At 120K miles, I decided to have
> Blackstone analyze the oil.
>
> The report came back with straight A's across the board. The engine was
> like factory new, according to what the oil told them. But, one little
> thing; check air filtration, as they recorded a higher than normal level
> of silicates.
>
> They weren't particularly worried; they just said to check the air
> filtration. Well, hell--I knew what they were talking about. It was
> the K&N.
>
> So, it's true.
>
> Now, what did the K&N do for me? Not sure. What did it do against me?
> Since it was under the hood, summertime launches from a dead start were
> noticeably worse because the engine was using HOT air from under the
> hood, and low end torque went to dogmeat.
on HOT days, initial torque will suffer regardless of the air filter. On my
98 Civic, the engine compartment has a considerable amount of free space and
the intake air duct opening is couple feet away from the engine, at the
extreme front of the car. I've been using the same K&N filter for over
100,000KM (they get cleaned about 3 times a year). I'm not sure if they're
really helping, but the car's running good, so I keeping the K&N.
Pars
>
>
> The consensus: unless you can find a cold air intake spot that won't
> suck up water, the K&N is probably overall a waste of money for regular
> street use. It may offer some benefits, but it also offers at least two
> proven detriments, so it's at best a trade-off.
pars
at
an early 12,500km is probably not going to hurt your engine, but it might
cause your engine
to take a significant amount of time before it loosens up enough to give
you a performance edge (perhaps never if you're a conservative driver).
Pars
98 Hatch
"Steve K. Lee" wrote:
> I called up my dealer to inquire whether they provided oil changes
> with Mobil 1 and they said that they don't recommend using it until my
> car's a bit more broken-in. I have a little over 12,500KM (approx.
> 7770miles) on my Pilot. When I asked when I can start using Mobil1
> and the advisor said that, that he doens't know will find out for me
> and get back to me.
>
> When asked for the reason to wait and I was told that since my car's
> still relatively new, it's recommended that the valves and seals in
> the engine be given enough time for them to properly develop their
> natural wear patterns. And since Mobil1's very slippery, it won't
> allow my engine to do that properly. What do you guys think? Does it
> make sense? When did you guys start using Mobil1 when you got your
> new cars?
>
> As well, is the OEM Honda oil filter still alright to be used with
> Mobil1 or should I be opting for something different because of the
> different fluid characteristics/viscosity of the synthetic oil
> compared to the regular dyno OEM Honda oil? If so, what oil filter do
> you guys recommend?
>
johnsonrod
does regular oil "loosen" your engine? I thought synthetic oil would always
be better right from day 1 since it doesn't have the impurities found in
regular oil.
jr
"pars" <"sdaro(remove)"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E34A713...@hotmail.com...
pars
johnsonrod wrote:
>
> I suppose this question isn't necessarily restricted to Honda's; but how
> does regular oil "loosen" your engine? I thought synthetic oil would always
> be better right from day 1 since it doesn't have the impurities found in
> regular oil.
>
The original post from Steven K. Lee has some insight regarding Mobil-1
ability to inhibit the break-in process. I personally agree with the
Honda techs in that post.
Here's an analogy that might help. Suppose you have a freshly cut piece
of wood that's going to be used as a table top. The wood is littered
with circular knots and you need to sand them down. A coarse sand paper
would be equivalent to regular oil while the find sandpaper would be
representative of the mobil-1.
Pars
Steve K. Lee
>johnsonrod wrote:
>>
>> I suppose this question isn't necessarily restricted to Honda's; but how
>> does regular oil "loosen" your engine? I thought synthetic oil would always
>> be better right from day 1 since it doesn't have the impurities found in
>> regular oil.
>>
>
>The original post from Steven K. Lee has some insight regarding Mobil-1
>ability to inhibit the break-in process. I personally agree with the
>Honda techs in that post.
>
>Here's an analogy that might help. Suppose you have a freshly cut piece
>of wood that's going to be used as a table top. The wood is littered
>with circular knots and you need to sand them down. A coarse sand paper
>would be equivalent to regular oil while the find sandpaper would be
>representative of the mobil-1.
>
>Pars
Hmmmm....interesting analogy, indeed and it makes sense too, even to
my feeble brain. I've been told that during the third oil change is
when I should start using Mobil1, but I'm thinking if I should wait
until the 4th or even the 5th now. Darn, decisions, decisions.
johnsonrod
Ron Miller
(George Macdonald) wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:54:58 -0500, "Henry Kwan"
><henry...@sympatico.canospam> wrote:
>
>>I would say to put it in during the 3rd oil change. I agree to a certain
>>extent about using dino oil first. However, those dealers say Honda uses
>>special break in oil, I highly doubt this and I've never seen "break in"
>>oil....so I strongly believe it's just regular dino oil.
>
>Honda does insist that there is a special oil here:
><https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/login.asp?page=/Maintenance/maint_faqs.asp>.
>This site probably requires a registered login.
And this would explain the Owner's Manual admonition NOT to make your first
oil change sooner than recommended. If they delivered the car with plain
motor oil, they wouldn't care if you changed it early.
Ron
Ron Miller
Well, this advice is diametrically opposed to the new Accord owners manual
which explicitly recommends AGAINST changing the oil sooner that the
prescribed interval the first time. Why do you think they would give this
admonition. I've never seen it in any manual before, so I'm a little
confused.
Ron
Ron Miller
>
>
>Pete wrote:
>>
>> JETman <jeta...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>> news:3E32D3C6...@worldnet.att.net...
>> >
>> > I would NEVER drive a new car more than 1K without changing the oil and
>> > multiple changes prior to reaching the 1K point are even better...
>>
>> So why do so many manufacturers clearly state in the owner's manual NOT to
>> replace the original oil until 5 or 7K miles?
>>
>> Just curious.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Pete
>
>
>Because most people don't want to...
Sorry. I'm not buying that explanation. Do you have another?
SoCalMike
"Ron Miller" <mill...@osu.edu> wrote in message
news:413m3voqunv9cdo21...@4ax.com...
to help the engine break in
George Macdonald
>
>
>George Macdonald wrote:
>>
>> Honda advises waiting:
>> <https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/login.asp?page=/Maintenance/maint_faqs.asp>.
>> Also see <http://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/65043.phtml> for a post by
>> Randy Hubbard, an experienced engine designer, as relates to Audis.
>>
>
>
>The first site requires a password - strike one
... to you I'm afraid. Just register.
>The second is AUDI, one of the biggest producers of crappy cars...
It's an Audi owners' forum. Randy Hubbard is an expert engine
designer/builder - he's talked to the factory engineers and seen the
results. Whatever is wrong with Audis in general, and I personally
disagree with some of their directions, I don't think engines is a big
fault with them.
>Sorry, but I'll go with my own experience over forty-five years of
>dealing with engines and lubricants...
You can do what the hell you want. If you advise others to follow you
you'll be contradicted here. Then again, you might try joining the 21st
century.