haiku not possible in English?
Timothy Russell
the egret shifts from stillness
to stillness
david rutkowski
I guess it depends on how you define haiku.
Your poem displays setting (often seasonal,
but I guess temporal works as well), and a
quietly profound observation. Some might
say that "stillness" is a little too abstract.
noon --
in the rice paddy an egret
finally moves
I don't think the above is as good as your
poem, but it feels a little more like haiku.
You can see the observer watching the egret
frozen in a hunting stance. When it "moves"
is it attacking, or simply going to a better
location? That kind of "space" is rather
haikuish.
But deep down, I don't believe haiku can
be written in any other language than
Japanese. There're wonderful Chinese forms
which are impossible to imitate in English --
the languages are just too different.
But writing three-line poems is a good
exercise for mind and soul. IMHO.
Timothy Russell
"david rutkowski" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3D7C12C0...@yahoo.com...
The flaw in your logic is that you are using your experience with Chinese
forms to declare an impossibility not related to Chinese forms.
More familiarity with haiku as it is actually practiced in Japan and in the
west in English and Japanese might convince you otherwise.
The word "haiku" was not applied to the form until the end of the 19th
century, by Masaoka Shiki. Read Burton Watson's translation of Shiki's
haiku.
Just about everybody brings alot of dated baggage to the haiku writing
table. Most of it is nonsense. Counting syllables is nonsense. Rhyming is
nonsense. Extinguishing every trace of simile and all the other forms of
metaphor is nonsense. Nervousness over the absence of kigo is nonsense.
Those who know the least about haiku are often the quickest to argue.
The egret didn't move in any other manner than merely shifting, no attack,
nothing else. Stillness is not an abstraction. It is a (desirable?) state
of being.
It doesn't depend on how anybody defines it. It depends on whether or not it
lies in the haiku tradition itself, which is always changing. Hokku no
longer must contain a veiled compliment to the host of the renku party for
which the hokku was composed. Things change.
kindly,
t
david rutkowski
> "david rutkowski" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3D7C12C0...@yahoo.com...
>
>>Timothy Russell wrote:
>>
>>
>>>noon--
>>>the egret shifts from stillness
>>>to stillness
>>>
>>>
>>I guess it depends on how you define haiku.
<clip>
>
> The flaw in your logic is that you are using your experience with Chinese
> forms to declare an impossibility not related to Chinese forms.
True. Japanese has the freedom of German in word order.
English and Chinese depend on patterns to convey meaning.
<clip>
>
> It doesn't depend on how anybody defines it. It depends on whether or not it
> lies in the haiku tradition itself, which is always changing. Hokku no
> longer must contain a veiled compliment to the host of the renku party for
> which the hokku was composed. Things change.
One brand of tea in Japan hold haiku contests, and print
the winners (one per bottle) on the backside of the label.
They didn't seem like haiku to me. As I said, it's in the
definition. In painting, it's much easier to see the purists,
and the subtle refinements which advance the art.
But art is art is art ...
>
> kindly,
> t