A Belated Welcome to the RVY Replacement
ace of clubs
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Helll-l-l-l-l-oh, Jesse!
Although I decidely am NOT the duly eeeee-leckted Welcome Wagon fer
a.r.s.--lacking even the requisite four wheels--please allow me to add me
own humble expression of salutations and salaams to celebrate yer arrival.
I had sech a warm, close relationship with yer predecessor, RV, I feel it
is my duty, and a dis-stinking honor, to make yer stay here in a.r.s.,
ah...warm.
So, ladies and gentlemen of a.r.s., allow me to heartily endorse to you a
man whose legend and reputation arrived in this forum far, far ahead of his
own selfless, modest presence, a legend that wuz finely crafted by only the
very BEST guv'mint spin-doctors, and delivered with breathless
effervescence by that sparkling wit and kitty-kat lover, that Field-Agent
Handler soo-preme, the delightful, the delovely, the combative Ms. Stacy
Young.
To Ms. Young: a tip o' the Ace of Clubs top hat. You are doing a *fine*
job, Young lady. Of course, things went a bit south with the field agent
you were formerly handling--poor ol' busted up RV--but you are not to be
faulted for his inability to hold his own in the face of adversity. (I
didn't think y'all would punish him, though, by havin' HIM be the one to
have to start oozin' out the fact that Hubbard wuz bumped off--once it wuz
squeezed so hard by others that it had to come out of you. That's some
tough love! But his brain shampoo seems to be going *so* well; his writing
may soon rival that of Jane Austen. You may recall that, of Ms. Austen's
scribblings, Mark Twain sed: "It seems a great pity that they allowed her
to die a natural death.")
And to Mr. Prince: Welcome! As the latest government stooge and CST
smoke-screen--here to back up Ger-bil, and to replace poor ol' has-been
RV--you, too, good sir, are off to an exemplary start. Why, you have the
Lower-Than-Room-Temperature-IQ Section on their feet, doing "the wave,"
cheering, shouting out your name! It makes the blood rush and the heart
pound to see it. It gives goose bumps.
For the benefit of those who have come in late, please, Mr. Prince, indulge
yer humble host a moment, and allow me to recap briefly your performance so
far in this arena.
I recall, with pangs of pathos, yer first touching post:
"Three weeks ago I contacted Stacy Young. In talking with
her I realized I could help in the struggle to expose the
truth about Scn and get them to stop hurting people and
ruining lives of decent and innocent people."
Wring out yer hankies, kids. Very nice, Yessie-Jesse: you managed in yer
very first sentence to position yerself wif one "opinion leader," and state
yer munificent motivations. *Do* go on:
"The following Sunday after Stacy and I met, Mike Rinder
called Bob Minton to ask if I was now on his payroll. It was
obvious that they knew Stacy and I had met and were ready
to attack all of us---which is what they have been doing
ever since."
There, you immediately introduce the junior villain of the piece, Rinder
(even though he's one of yer own, too), to get the peanut gallery booin'
and hissin' (but only warmin' them up fer the REAL villain--yet to come!),
and then you IMMEDIATELY bring in the "heavy hitter" hero, the Number One
International Banker Overtly Fighting the Evil Global Empire of
Scientology, Mr. Compassion his-own-self, Bob Minton. Oh, youse guys is
*good*!
And finally, you introduce another one of yer fine crew, the former
pivot-man in D.C., Michael Meisner's handler, buddy to the FBI and to Meade
Emory during the "Snow White" Operation, everybody's favorite Esquire, and
counsel to CST (whom you never, ever, EVER, under ANY circumstances, must
even acknowledge the existence of), Mr. Kendrick Moxon:
"Scn attorney Rick Moxon has already put me on notice that I
am to be sued if I divulge any information about their
criminal activities. However, I will not be silenced by
these thugs."
Give me a minute. Ol' Ace is all choked up. All right. I'm okay now. That
wuz a *fine* introduction you gave yerself, Yessie-Jesse, and you were
smart enough to get in, and get *out*--no agenda; jest a touching hello.
Oh, but the crowd is hushed. The players are in place. The stage is set.
In yer second post, you give us yer tech bona-fides, lettin' us all know
that you had been tapped by the Old Man his-own-self as "the best
supervisor or cramming officer in all of Scientology." Wow! Ain't we jest
*blessed* to have you amongst us! And then in that same post, you
ee-e-a-a-a-se in the subject you'd been sent here to really talk about, you
tease us with jest a *hint* about the REAL villain of the piece: MISCAVIGE!
And we hear, before the curtain falls on this act, that he tol' you that
"there is no such thing as God"!
[CUE DRAMATIC MYOOSIK!]
With a sharp intake of breath from the audience, the curtain falls. End of
Act I! Now walks on yer chief endorser, Bob Minton, to let us all know that
"Jesse has done so many sec checks on Miscavige, Rathbun, Starkey,
Spurlock, Heber, Rinder etc. A lot of crimes come out in those sec checks."
OooooOOO! Ain't NOBODY goin' home early now!
Raise curtain on Act II:
Fer some unknown, cosmic reason, you take us on a surreal trip down Mem'ry
Lane, back, back, back to the late '70's. A boyish and innocent Marty
Rathbun is seen caught up in an awful drama! A husband in a rage pulls a
pistol and shoots his own wife, her blood and brains splattering a dazed
and shocked Marty Rathbun. Is he treated with compassion and helped? NO!
What happens to him? Well, now we KNOW why you took us in the time machine:
so you could tell us that "Little David Miscavige often beat Marty up (in
the presence of bigger stronger goons, of course) and all of this has an
effect on a person."
Omigod! It's the eeeee-vil, all-powerful DAVID MISCAVIGE AGAIN!
Hissssss-s-s-s-s-s-s! Booooo-o-o-o-o-o! Beating up on a poor innocent--and
with an army of goons, yet! Throw the tomaters! Throw the potaters!
Now this is all good drama. This is all damned *fine* drama! But then, the
crowd begins to grow a little restless. There ain't no MEAT with all them
'maters and 'taters. Why, some critics have the gall to start even bein'
critical of YOU, and it seems like some of them 'maters and 'taters might
even start splatting on our hero.
And so, with high tension in the air, suddenly appears:
"AFFIDAVIT OF JESSE PRINCE"
Ta-da!
Now we're gon' get the INSIDE DIRT! Hooray!!!
And what do we LEARN? What do we FIND OUT? Well, we are told:
"The power was taken over by David Miscavige..."
Huh?!
And what else?
.....nothin'....
What?
Nothin'. That's right. We get a bunch more antecdotal "evidence" about
everybody's favorite lawn ornament, dwarfish Davey-the-Dunce Miscavige,
being the gree-e-e-e-attt Potentate of all Scientologydom, and some more
stories about PC-folder culling (always a hit with the peanut gallery), and
yet MORE stories about the omnipotence of the eeeeeee-vil Davey-the-Dunce
Miscavige, and a rehash of the U.S. Guv'mint Approved Official Reason
<yawn> why there are no records of Hubbard having been the managing agent
of Scientology. (Couldn't *possibly* be because there never *were* any;
unh-unh--it wuz because the eeeee-vil Davey-the-Dunce had 'em all
destroyed. Uh-huh. And here's the evidence... Oops! <Snort!>)
Then we get the chocolate fudge fer the whole thing: we get a bunch of
jumbled-up, indecipherable, non-traceable, incomprehensible
"FactNET-possessed-originals-only" table of "copyright information," ALL of
which frantically points AWAY from the true owner of the copyrights--the
Church of Spiritual Technology (CST), doing business as the L. Ron Hubbard
Library--and pointing frantically TO Bridge Publications, Inc. (better
known as the clowns that Barnum and Bailey rejected). What a fuckin' joke.
You know, Yessie-Jessie, if ol' Ace didn't know better, I'd almost be
forced to think you wuz jest another lyin' motherfucker, like yer
predecessor, RV, and like my dear, dear, sincere fox-hole buddy,
Gerry-the-Gerbil-Ass Armstrong--who still keeps dodgin' my question about
where he got them lobotomy pictures of LRH from. I'd almost be tempted to
b'lieve you wuz dragged in here by yer Field Agent Handler,
Stacy-the-Schtup Young, to spread some more of that U.S. Guv'mint Approved
Disinformation fertilizer that you all reek of.
Jest so's I can have an opportunity to purge myself of sech wicked, sinful,
sacreligious thoughts, lemme jest review some of yer follow-ups. Like, you
come in here last month, and you sed:
"Suddenly I hear Samuel Rosen say: 'Your honor, the witness
they are bringing into this case, Jesse Prince, was second
in command of the Church of Scientology.'"
Well, shet my mouf'! I guess that jest about seals the deal, don't it!
Yessiree, Yessie-Jesse! That's means that if it comes from YOU, it's jest
GOTS to be the real thing! And so if YOU don't mention CST, then, by God,
CST don't exist! And if YOU say Miscavige is in charge, then, by God, he
must BE!
But, Yessie-Jesse, I has to tell you, I got a little burr under my saddle
here, and let me tell you why.
See, it struck me as REAL odd back a few months ago when that VERY SAME
legal whore stood up in court and put the following on the record.
Righteous Rosen gratuitously sed:
ROSEN: And Mr. Henson, at the time of this posting that you
repeated a subject line, you had never even seen Mr.
Miscavige, the worldwide ecclesiastical leader of the Church
of Scientology, had you?
Now, ain't that a fuckin' head-scratcher, Yessie-Jesse? Here is Mr. Rosen,
this unassailable paragon of truth, this polished officer of the court--who
jest HAPPENS to have worked jowl-to-jowl with CST's favorite counselor, Mr.
Kendrick "Snow White" Moxon--making GODDAMNED SURE that he gets it into the
record that Mr. David-the-Dunce Miscavige is the "worldwide ecclesiastical
leader of the Church of Scientology," no matter how stilted, forced, and
phoney it sounds. And now this SAME Mr. Rosen, this VERY SAME tool of
CST-via-Moxon, gets up in ANOTHER court, and hands YOU all the bona-fides
YOU need to confirm that, yessie, Davey-the-Dunce is de MAN!
I believes I is gettin' religion now! I believes I sees the light! Yessie!
Massah Miscavige sho' IS de Big Boss Man. Yessie, dat's de troof. Ah knows,
'cause YOU was de SECOND Big Boss Man, and you SEZ SO! Jes' ask de
always-trooful Massah Rosen dere. He'll tell you. And dere ain't no sech
thang as the haints called CST. Nosuh. Dey ain't nobody. Dey don' exist.
Dey's jest like the boogey-man; dey's jest like the green balls of light
that go glowin' and rollin' down dirt roads late at night near the hangin'
tree: it's all jes' a figment of my overheated imaginashun!
I am jest overWHELMED with the august authority of your references, Mr.
Yessie-Jesse. They are impeccable. And I couldn't help but notice that you
wanted to make DAMNED SURE we all fully received and understood your
endorsement from CST's (wdne) mouthpiece-once-removed, Samuel Rosen, 'cause
you came back in here this week and REMINDED us all, when you sed:
"Scientology lead counsel Sandy Rosen identified me as
having been the #2 person in control of all of Scientology."
Boy-o-howdy, Yessie-Jesse, you seem downright ENAMORED of that endorsement
from CST's mouthpiece-once-removed. And, like him, and like RV before you,
you're about as subtle as a hydrogen bomb, too. I 'spect we'll be seein' it
on your resume 'fore long!
Well, gee-whillikers, we're proud of it FOR you, Yessie-Jesse. We sure are;
jest proud enough to bust a button!
And since we all got it completely nailed down here, now, that no one is to
have the effrontery to question anything you say, let's find out what
trumpeted, holy, consecrated message you are bringing on your low-swingin'
Sweet Chariot. Show us the tablets, prophet! Reveal to us the truth!
And, lo! Yessie-Jesse DID reveal to the heathens the troof, the whole
troof, and nothin' but the troof, so help him Rosen. And he moved amongst
us, and he spake thusly:
"The power was taken over by David Miscavige..."
"David Miscavige's Rise to Corruption..."
"David Miscavige, Scientology's new dictator..."
[Forget about CST. You are getting sleeeeepy...]
"This decision was made by a trustee of RTC who is also the
managing agent of the entire Scientology empire, David
Miscavige. ..."
"David Miscavige specifically stated that ASI was 'already
dealing with the problem', ridding ASI of any documents that
would implicate L. Ron Hubbard as managing agent of
Scientology. ..."
[There is no CST. They do not own or control ANYTHING. Sleeeep.]
"[S]ince L. Ron Hubbard's death, David Miscavige has been
the self-appointed managing agent of Scientology..."
"The people who run the intelligence network are in RTC,
the most senior organization within all of Scientology. ..."
[CST is the Seven Dwarves, digging little mines. Sleep Sleeeeep!]
"David Miscavige gave orders that..."
[SNAP!]
BlbBlbBlbBlb! Huh? Wha'? What happened? Did I doze off there? You know, I
wuz jest thinkin'. I sure am glad we got it all settled that Mr. David
Miscavige is completely in control and charge of the entire Scientology
empire, the soo-preme dictator, and always has been, and that he owns and
controls all the copyrights and trademarks, and everybody dances at the end
of his strings, 'cause he is all-powerful, and is the greatest evil genius
that ever lived in all of time, and that there ain't no sech thing as CST.
(Well, there IS, of course, but they ain't NOTHIN' 'cept some little
monkish guys diggin' holes in the desert--because Mr. Miscavige ordered
them too, of course. Copyrights? Trademarks? Them? Don't be ridiculous. I
don't care how many copyright registrations and signed documents you can
show me. Go away!) Why, hell, Mr. Miscavige even has the IRS, FBI, CIA--the
whole GODDAMNED GOVERNMENT under his thumb, blackmailed, scared SHITless,
and...
Wa-a-a-a-i-i-i-it just a gol-durned minute, here. Why, that means... Well,
let me see. Mr. Miscavige is an OPERATING THETAN. And them guv'mint
agencies is all WOGS. So... Why... Well, that can only mean ONE THING!!!!
S C I E N T O L O G Y W O R K S!
Sweet Jalapenoed Jesus, I b'lieve I has had a EPIPHANY, here! Oh, thank
you, thank you, Yessie-Jesse Prince! (Just adding my thanks to those of OSA
op Kim Baker!) Ah am SAVED!
HaleLUjah!
Now lemme' witness! Lemme' witness! Lemme' give my Success Story!
[A-hem. Testing. Testing. Testing, 1, 2, 3. Is this on? Okay.]
Listen, you humble-pie-eatin', sanctimonious, smooth-crawlin' worm: there
are OTHER players on the fuckin' field now, all of whom know EXACTLY how
you low-life, covert, blood-gorged, slime-coated leeches work. So pass THAT
through your guv'mint whore handler, and tell her to get the fucking
message ACROSS this time.
The word is out on CST, *and* on the dog-humpers that are behind THEIR
asses. You never expected to get as much exposure as you've gotten. It
happened too fast, too unexpectedly, and you've all been trying to do a
Keystone Cops catch-up cover-up ever since. But it ain't playing in Muncie,
fuckhead. Your scripted, well-financed plays are like
The-Third-Grade-Does-Broadway-Hits. Your redundant "talking points" on
Davey-the-Dunce and RTC are about as delicate and sly as a pile-driver.
The documents proving--yes, I said PROVING--CST's ownership and control of
the copyrights and trademarks are not only all over the fucking 'net, but
are safely squirrelled away in more places than you will ever know to look.
The toothpaste is out of the fucking tube, and you ain't EVER going to get
it put back.
Some of the players involved with CST are scared out of their fucking
minds, because THEY know that THEY know too much, and THEY know that THEY
are expendable.
In fact, I notice that in yer latest post, asshole, you're already setting
one or two of them up to go down with Miscavige. Oh, that must make 'em
feel *real* secure! They thought they were safe. They thought they were the
top fucking dogs, didn't they. But I notice you sed:
"Out of all the so-called 'brilliant leaders' in Scientology
during the time I was there, the only major players that had
a college education were the lawyers. ...[T]he attorneys
have played DM, who never even finished high school, for a
total fool. Soon he will be thrown away... . I believe for
me to reveal or speak against those particular attorneys
could threaten my life. However, in the event of death,
what I know has been written down and will survive me."
Ignoring for the moment (out of a sense of good sportsmanship) the fact
that you are now forced into doing a 180 on your "Miscavige is all" theme,
that bit about your life being in danger from the attorneys is a VERY nice
touch! Get a fucking clue, idiot: the only guarantee on your life is to
POST IT TO THE INTERNET--IF you really have the inside dope on something we
don't already know, and IF you are what you say you are. Then YOU don't
count for shit. Then YOU don't matter to them. Idiot. Because then
EVERYBODY knows it. What are they going to do: wipe out everybody?
You think that you can put over on even gelatin-heads the idea that your
"safety" depends utterly on your being the ONE guy in the whole fucking
world who knows who these alleged all-powerful backroom lawyers are? If yer
really THAT stoopid, who does yer typing for you?
But since you're jest a lying motherfucker, you ain't going to post what
you know about "The Attorneys." That ain't what yer orders are. Yer orders
are jest to drop some sly fucking hints about some of the attorneys,
because you fucks have been FORCED into it by all the revelations you never
expected to be made, and SOMEBODY might have to take a fall now besides
Miscavige.
Which of the low-life motherfuckers are you setting up to take the fall
with Dum-Dum David? Stephen Lenske? (Surely not Sherman. Naw, he'll have
his ass covered.) Heller? Misterek? Hell, even Meade? Somebody else?
Like I actually give a flying fuck.
I noticed, too, that WallowSlime's own personal bow-wow Intel Agent, Joe
Harrington--also linked to the good-old Snow White Op, and to Sharon
Thomas--has jumped in to endorse yer ass--along with WallowSlime his own
self.
Well, I figure the ONLY possible explanation for Wollyslime's case having
dragged out for SIXTEEN FUCKING YEARS is that it is, and always has been,
part of yer op.
It was, after all, part of THE catalyst for the big corporate shake-up
engineered by Lenske that GAVE us CST, RTC and the rest of the fuckin' gang
of misfit corporations (jest ax yer Handler, Stacy-the-Schtup, or read her
affidavits), and has been there all along as the safety-net should anybody
get onto yer fucking schemes.
So, WallowSlime plays catcher for the copyrights and trademarks if it all
really goes to hell, and, in the meantime, you have a nice foil to play
both sides of the fuckin' game with, and to run up billable hours fer yer
buddies, right? Don't bother--rhetorical question. (That's the new org stat
fer all of Scientology now, ain't it: Billable Hours. Don't
bother--rhetorical question.)
You guys are a fucking party.
But send this message out on yer Dick Tracy wrist radio: tell 'em the
fuckin' party's over.
Oh, by all means, keep comin' in here entertainin' the troops. It's fun to
watch yer lap dogs jumpin' around on their hind legs, doin' tricks fer you,
and snappin' and lappin' up yer treats.
But while yer puttin' on yer little dog'n'pony show, if you hear laughter
behind you, DON'T, fer God's sake, turn around. It's jest because we're
watchin'. And yer ass is hangin' out.
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
The most outrageous lies that can be invented
will find believers if a man only tells them
with all his might.
--Mark Twain
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
ace of clubs
Roland
brainwashed clam. Your cult is on the way out and what will you do then?
Roland
--
Watch the Xemu Cartoon: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/xemurams/
Visit Xemu's Home Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/index2.html
Also the incomparable Operation Clambake: http://www.xenu.net/
The TRUE story of Hubbard: http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/bfm/
Hubbard's "No Christ": http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Nochrist.ram
The famous Xenu flyer: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/flyers/Xemu.html
L. Ron Hubbard - A Profile: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/RonSez.html
Roland
good laugh -- at you.
Why don't you post some pig-fucking stories like good old wgert?
Dobe R Mann
>
[chomp ... racist dreck]
Clam meat,
Fuck you.
Dobe R Mann
SP2 Tone 1.95
__________________________________________________________________
"Look netizens! Another person just read about the Co$, Xenu, Elron and the
rest of the rot." "Watch now! .... look! .... oooohhh there he goes folks!
He's posting on ARS"
___________________________________________________________________
INCIDENT 4
LOUD SNAP (Bones breaking)
CHEVROLETS COME OUT
BURN RUBBER
FISHTAIL RIGHT
DO U-TURN
STALL
FLAT TIRE (No motion)
BLOWS HORN
BLOWS MISCAVIGE
CRASH
StukaFox
The representative of a multi-million dollar organization
reduced to anonymously flaming on the Usenet.
Truly fucking pathetic.
StukaFox
Neal Hamel
>
>))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>
>Helll-l-l-l-l-oh, Jesse!
>
>
[ snip of unfunny and hugely boring drivel ]
So I see that OSA's vaunted intelligence gathering machinery could not
find one damned thing to DA Mr. Prince with.
Are you bunch of liars now going to settle on the usual "Black PR"
(copyright L. Ron Hubbard) to handle Jesse?
You are losing the war you started, bub.
-Neal H.
Conner
>
>))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>
>Helll-l-l-l-l-oh, Jesse!
>
[clip]
if you actually had something to say, you covered it in too
much b.s. nobody wants to search for raisins in turds.
-- see...@ix.netcom.com (Conner)
Note: remove 'spamblock' from address to reply
Friends of Dennis Erlich Club (www.netcom.com/~seekon/friends.html)
Inducto
I'm still not sure if this guy is one of CoS' aparatchiks experimenting with a
strange approach, or a former member -- with certain loyalties to Hubbard
and/or the "tech" -- like Koos whose worldview borders on paranoia. But it's
certainly about as tiring, nonsensical, and self-exalting as Koos' postings .
I'm always interested to see an good argument expounded, or even a reasonable
intelligent conspiracy theory laid out. But it's not at all obvious what, if
anything, underlies this pretentious and melodramatic dreck.
I.
SIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIG
Induct YourSELF into new realities
Avoid highwaymen on the road to personal and spiritual betterment -- beware
dead ends and unlit paths
ef
(Inducto) wrote:
> I'm still not sure if this guy is one of CoS' aparatchiks experimenting with a
> strange approach, or a former member -- with certain loyalties to Hubbard
> and/or the "tech" -- like Koos whose worldview borders on paranoia. But it's
> certainly about as tiring, nonsensical, and self-exalting as Koos' postings .
a former member with loyalties to hubbard and some very loony conspiracy
theories.
gerry armstrong
Yeah it's not me.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
woodn...@my-dejanews.com
roland.rash...@virgin.net wrote:
> What an idiot you are. And what a stupid cult you belong to. Poor
> brainwashed clam. Your cult is on the way out and what will you do then?
That is not correct Roland. The Church is expanding everywhere. We are
getting big successes in Russia and the other Soviet countries. Our first
mission in China is proving a huge success. Woody.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
KBa...@my-dejanews.com
>In article <1998101222...@replay.com>,
> ace of clubs <a...@blackjack.no> wrote:
> ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>
> Helll-l-l-l-l-oh, Jesse!
[...]
> Sweet Jalapenoed Jesus, I b'lieve I has had a EPIPHANY, here! Oh, thank
> you, thank you, Yessie-Jesse Prince! (Just adding my thanks to those of OSA
> op Kim Baker!) Ah am SAVED!
Heh. Now howd'ya god-damn expect me to gather intel
and co-ordinate covert ops if you keep on blowing my cover, eh?
Your Ops keep impersonating South African agents, and
then you wonder why the hell we're xenuphobic?
Now I've *&%&*$## gotta start all over again!
Dang, Ace, you've lost the edge. I, of course, still appreciate
the entertainment value, but hell, now the rest of 'em are saying
you're not playing with a full deck! You gotta watch that, you know.
Here's two tips: (it *is* a two-terminal universe, what say):
1. Short attention span. You gotta keep it short, or ya'll lose 'em.
2. Never insult the people you're trying to insult. That's
a botch of the reverse vector. You've gotta heap
*admiration* on 'em, see.
Go figure-figure sum more.
Kim Baker
[Send no e-mail. This account is not secure. You have been warned.]
William Barwell
Inducto <ind...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>I'm still not sure if this guy is one of CoS' aparatchiks experimenting with a
>strange approach, or a former member -- with certain loyalties to Hubbard
>and/or the "tech" -- like Koos whose worldview borders on paranoia. But it's
>certainly about as tiring, nonsensical, and self-exalting as Koos' postings .
>
A Koos like maroon.
- killfile -
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
Deana Marie Holmes
>I'm still not sure if this guy is one of CoS' aparatchiks experimenting with a
>strange approach, or a former member -- with certain loyalties to Hubbard
>and/or the "tech" -- like Koos whose worldview borders on paranoia. But it's
>certainly about as tiring, nonsensical, and self-exalting as Koos' postings .
It's one of Veritas' tentacles.
Deana Marie Holmes
The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
mir...@xmission.com
Martin Hunt
ind...@aol.com (Inducto) wrote:
>I'm still not sure if this guy is one of CoS' aparatchiks experimenting with a
>strange approach, or a former member -- with certain loyalties to Hubbard
>and/or the "tech" -- like Koos whose worldview borders on paranoia. But it's
>certainly about as tiring, nonsensical, and self-exalting as Koos' postings .
>
>I'm always interested to see an good argument expounded, or even a reasonable
>intelligent conspiracy theory laid out. But it's not at all obvious what, if
>anything, underlies this pretentious and melodramatic dreck.
Ace of Clubs. His? last post, 10+kb long, came to one point: CST
runs the show. What he doesn't say is who runs CST, but he's
probably coming around to the CIA, eventually.
Who is on the board of CST now? Probably David Miscavige, right.
I'd like to see a listing of all the people on it, including the COB
CST, vice president, secretary, and so forth.
Ace of Clubs would be well advised to tone down the hyperbole about
one million degrees, back off on the racist jibes against his new
target, Jesse Prince, and try to express his opinions more concisely
and rationally. Better yet, he should just post under his own
name. I have a feeling that it's a name that many here would be
familiar with.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Just the FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
Anonymous
In message <1998101222...@replay.com>, Ace of Clubs wrote:
>))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>
>Helll-l-l-l-l-oh, Jesse!
>
<Snip rest of a long article>
I've read all the responses so far to this message, and while I am just an
occassional lurker in this group, and don't have the passionate involvement
in the issues discussed here that I see others exhibit, or any group
credentials that would make my opinion carry any weight, I felt I finally
had to wade in.
Almost every response I have seen has labelled the writer of this message
as a "kook" or worse, and have written him off.
Being a current student of literature, I have a different view. I find him,
even with his affected dialects, to be a master of rhetorical devices and
writing techniques that have few equals.
It seems that he is vilified because he pokes holes in peoples favorite
ideas and strongly-held beliefs. But his work, to me, has a definite
Swiftian quality to it, with a hint of Twain (who he is obviously a fan
of), and other writers who are luminaries in the rich lore of satire,
peppered with Anglo-Saxonisms that add a sting and bite to his writings
that earlier writers never enjoyed.
Whether his interpretations of events and motivations has any validity or
not, he serves, to my view, the purpose of forcing people to look at
different possibilities, to question what they see and hear, to think, and
to reject things that don't make sense. And that is all satirical writing
has ever been about.
Whatever you may think of him, I personally appreciate the fact that he
brings fresh, new, and different ideas to the newsgroup in an entertaining
manner. I always get a few really good laughs from his works, and am
sometimes absolutely dazzeled by his literary footwork, ascerbic though it
may be. I see very few things even comparable anywhere else in usenet, and
I think some of you may not be able to appreciate a treasure you have
because of your bias against him.
I cannot easily dismiss anyone who displays as much education and
thoughtfulness as he unfailingly displays as a mere "kook." There may be
many other possible explantations, but I do not see any of the people
calling him a "kook" displaying even a small fraction of his creative
panache, and so the label, to my mind, even serves the purpose of making me
want to look more closely at what he says, and see if it bears weight.
Maybe it is precisely because I am not emotionally caught up in the
Scientology issues, or emotionally tied to any of the people discussed in
his posts, that I have a different view of this. Anyway, for what it's
worth, that's my two cents. Thanks for listening.
Keith Henson
: In message <1998101222...@replay.com>, Ace of Clubs wrote:
snip
: I've read all the responses so far to this message, and while I am just an
: occassional lurker in this group, and don't have the passionate involvement
: in the issues discussed here that I see others exhibit, or any group
: credentials that would make my opinion carry any weight, I felt I finally
: had to wade in.
: Almost every response I have seen has labelled the writer of this message
: as a "kook" or worse, and have written him off.
: Being a current student of literature, I have a different view. I find him,
: even with his affected dialects, to be a master of rhetorical devices and
: writing techniques that have few equals.
His writing *definately* has a unique style.
: It seems that he is vilified because he pokes holes in peoples favorite
: ideas and strongly-held beliefs. But his work, to me, has a definite
: Swiftian quality to it, with a hint of Twain (who he is obviously a fan
: of), and other writers who are luminaries in the rich lore of satire,
: peppered with Anglo-Saxonisms that add a sting and bite to his writings
: that earlier writers never enjoyed.
true.
: Whether his interpretations of events and motivations has any validity or
: not, he serves, to my view, the purpose of forcing people to look at
: different possibilities, to question what they see and hear, to think, and
: to reject things that don't make sense. And that is all satirical writing
: has ever been about.
Well, yeah, but his world view is beyond crazy. Though perhaps I should
refrain from judgment, considering what really happened to Tom Klemesrud.
Still, I would almost rather buy into the Marcabs or the Illuminate
running things.
: Whatever you may think of him, I personally appreciate the fact that he
: brings fresh, new, and different ideas to the newsgroup in an entertaining
: manner. I always get a few really good laughs from his works, and am
: sometimes absolutely dazzeled by his literary footwork, ascerbic though it
: may be. I see very few things even comparable anywhere else in usenet, and
: I think some of you may not be able to appreciate a treasure you have
: because of your bias against him.
: I cannot easily dismiss anyone who displays as much education and
: thoughtfulness as he unfailingly displays as a mere "kook." There may be
: many other possible explantations, but I do not see any of the people
: calling him a "kook" displaying even a small fraction of his creative
: panache, and so the label, to my mind, even serves the purpose of making me
: want to look more closely at what he says, and see if it bears weight.
Ok, he is an *inspired* "kook."
: Maybe it is precisely because I am not emotionally caught up in the
: Scientology issues, or emotionally tied to any of the people discussed in
: his posts, that I have a different view of this. Anyway, for what it's
: worth, that's my two cents. Thanks for listening.
You about half way temp me to go back to ace's posting and analize it.
Keith Henson
Neal Hamel
wrote:
>On 13 Oct 1998 00:30:58 +0200, ace of clubs <a...@blackjack.no> wrote:
>
>>
>>))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>>
>>Helll-l-l-l-l-oh, Jesse!
>>
>>
>
>[ snip of unfunny and hugely boring drivel ]
>
>
>So I see that OSA's vaunted intelligence gathering machinery could not
>find one damned thing to DA Mr. Prince with.
>
>Are you bunch of liars now going to settle on the usual "Black PR"
>(copyright L. Ron Hubbard) to handle Jesse?
>
>You are losing the war you started, bub.
>
>-Neal H.
I agree with Deana. Upon further reflection, this is not OSA. But,
it is still unfunny and boring.
-Neal H.
Conner
>
>In message <1998101222...@replay.com>, Ace of Clubs wrote:
>
[clip]
>Being a current student of literature, I have a different view. I find him,
>even with his affected dialects, to be a master of rhetorical devices and
>writing techniques that have few equals.
ace of clubs praises himself
[clip]
P.Scott
His desired effect seems to be:
- to ridicule and discredit those on the front lines against the criminal
cult.....
-and at the same time, connect them to covert govt operations.
The result, one rejects his views of the critics, and rejects the
possibiliity of
govt covert ops. I do believe there is and has been extensive covert govt
operations
and control to a major extent of this cult.... it was so with the moonies,
and the panthers
(the eventual two top people in the panthers were BOTH CIA ops.... truth, a
matter of
testimony before congress by those self same ops...... these are not the
exceptions,
but the rule.)
If you can't relate to that fact without going into ridicule on the subject,
I suggest that you look at the mountain of evidence.... testimony before
congress... and reported numerous times on various news magazines such as
60 minutes. 20/20 and the like..... then make a more
intelligent assessment.
The govt/ scientology connections:
20+ years of US Naval Inteligence funding of the SRI experiments using
scnist subjects.... and many other evidences, such as the binaries of legal
documents showing intel people above the glorious DM. There have been 5
books written on the SRI experiments, two by Ingo Swann, xscn.... and many
magazine articles, the latest this year in Popular Science magazine I
believe.
Ace manages to get most who commented to ridicule the govt connections.
Neat trick I thought....... this guy is not some freelance loudmouth, in
case you hadn't noticed, he presented perhaps the best written, piece of
entertainment, with wit and verve and impact, and cunning that this group
has ever seen.
I suggest that it is not wise to underestimated the situation or the players
that surface from
time to time.
--
When one can look directly at the messiest personal truths,
then one can see through deception anywhere. Only in this
way does one ever have a chance of finding the ultimate truths
universe that set one free.
------------------------------------------------------------------
-,
The way to discover the truth about oneself is to measure
against absolute standards..... On that scale, chose any area, how
truthful is one, how much does one know about some topic, or skill
compared to how much there is to know on a scale of absolutes
stretched out a hundred or a thousand years into the future.
... This will disclose the truth of ones condition.
Wisdom is not attained soley on ones own effort. It is a gift, founded in
truth and humility. It may be, that in the final analysis, there is no
Life, without
wisdom.
--------------------------------end of signature
file------------------------------------------
William Barwell wrote in message <6vvced$f8r$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>...
>In article <19981013004823...@ng43.aol.com>,
>Inducto <ind...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm still not sure if this guy is one of CoS' aparatchiks experimenting
with a
>>strange approach, or a former member -- with certain loyalties to Hubbard
>>and/or the "tech" -- like Koos whose worldview borders on paranoia. But
it's
>>certainly about as tiring, nonsensical, and self-exalting as Koos'
postings .
>>
>
>
Dave Bird
>))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))-o-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>
>Helll-l-l-l-l-oh, Jesse!
>
>Although I decidely am NOT the duly eeeee-leckted Welcome Wagon fer
>a.r.s.--lacking even the requisite four wheels
Yup. In fact I can confidently say,
you're completely off your trolley.
In article <1998101322...@replay.com>, Anonymous writes:
>I've read all the responses so far to this message, and while I am just an
>occassional lurker in this group, and don't have the passionate involvement
>in the issues discussed here that I see others exhibit, or any group
>credentials that would make my opinion carry any weight, I felt I finally
>had to wade in.
>Almost every response I have seen has labelled the writer of this message
>as a "kook" or worse, and have written him off.
He's a known nutcase; unlike you, I have suffered from his articles
multiple times before.
>
>Being a current student of literature, I have a different view. I find him,
>even with his affected dialects, to be a master of rhetorical devices and
>writing techniques that have few equals.
It's bollocks --- if you can't get to the point and hook your reader
early he just flicks to the next article. Ace's style is not suited
to getting his message across, even if you like it as style.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
David Gerard
:I'm still not sure if this guy is one of CoS' aparatchiks experimenting with a
:strange approach, or a former member -- with certain loyalties to Hubbard
:and/or the "tech" -- like Koos whose worldview borders on paranoia. But it's
:certainly about as tiring, nonsensical, and self-exalting as Koos' postings .
It's another Veritas sock puppet^W^Wenthusiast with similar writing style.
[I eagerly await the Veritas followup to this post, which will no doubt contain
answers to the questions about sock puppets I asked last time.]
:I'm always interested to see an good argument expounded, or even a reasonable
:intelligent conspiracy theory laid out. But it's not at all obvious what, if
:anything, underlies this pretentious and melodramatic dreck.
James J. Lippard
P.Scott <psc...@inreach.com> wrote:
>The govt/ scientology connections:
> 20+ years of US Naval Inteligence funding of the SRI experiments using
>scnist subjects.... and many other evidences, such as the binaries of legal
>documents showing intel people above the glorious DM. There have been 5
>books written on the SRI experiments, two by Ingo Swann, xscn.... and many
>magazine articles, the latest this year in Popular Science magazine I
>believe.
This is a very, very weak "Scientology connection." Test subject Ingo
Swann had a brief flirtation with Scientology, but is not a Scientologist.
Researcher Harold Puthoff was a Scientologist for a while, but he also
left. Test subject Pat Price was a Scientologist, apparently until he
died. Those are the only Scientology connections I'm aware of, but there
were many other researchers and subjects. (See Jim Schnabel's book
_Remote Viewing_ for probably the best documented and researched book on
the subject.)
--
Jim Lippard lippard@(primenet.com ediacara.org skeptic.com)
Phoenix, Arizona http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/
PGP Fingerprint: B130 7BE1 18C1 AA4C 4D51 388F 6E6D 2C7A 36D3 CB4F
aaspa...@primenet.com
Paper Tiger
In Message-ID: <1998101322...@replay.com>,
>I've read all the responses so far to this message, and while I am just an
>occassional lurker in this group, and don't have the passionate involvement
>in the issues discussed here that I see others exhibit, or any group
>credentials that would make my opinion carry any weight, I felt I finally
>had to wade in.
>
>Almost every response I have seen has labelled the writer of this message
>as a "kook" or worse, and have written him off.
>
>Being a current student of literature, I have a different view. I find him,
>even with his affected dialects, to be a master of rhetorical devices and
>writing techniques that have few equals.
Okay, I appoint you his official agent and translator. What is it
exactly that he's got to say?
Hey, maybe he even HAS real points to make, you seem to think so. But
if all he's gonna do is cloak them in spite and malice, perhaps you
should both ask yourselves how many people - passionately involved in
the issues here or not - are going to wade through the vicious
quagmire of his masterful "rhetoric" to find them.
Myself, I think he writes like a spoiled little kid whose mommy won't
let him have a pony. But then I'm not a student of literature.
** Paper Tiger (SP3+, KBM, BBSNN, LFDoX)
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Rhonda
YAWN.. gonna go take a nite nite now :) :) Thanks for the bedtime borie
Rhonda
Conner wrote:
>
> On 14 Oct 1998 00:03:12 +0200, in message
> <1998101322...@replay.com>, Anonymous <nob...@replay.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >In message <1998101222...@replay.com>, Ace of Clubs wrote:
> >
> [clip]
>
> >Being a current student of literature, I have a different view. I find him,
> >even with his affected dialects, to be a master of rhetorical devices and
> >writing techniques that have few equals.
>
Rhonda
==== WAS CANCELLED BY ====
Message-ID: <UUS6A6YyV.G8spasxc1w...@isds-server.jpl.nasa.gov>
Supersedes: <362516D0...@isds-server.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: A Belated Welcome to the RVY Replacement
From: Rhonda <rron...@isds-server.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <1998101222...@replay.com>
Date: 16 Oct 1998 00:23:11 GMT
X-No-Archive: Yes
Newsgroups: intel.rsx,alt.life.sucks,alt.animals.dolphins,rec.arts.prose,alt.religion.scientology
Lines: 25
Path: ...!newsgroups.intel.com!isds-server.jpl.nasa.gov!rrondeau
Xref: thingy.apana.org.au alt.religion.scientology:267567
Vxie fito gvi aptzi.
Fcfcvbp lipevp wl vfwwq!
Gkabb ualp gwcye eioiy
gqozeae ild zevkff oesiid skcu
all brr bpui ev
ioql elb kpey nndj
jah euis faaoal uttul uons uaee
tcioy geete keyov gebtrx iu
teeu hvff nmym rsh wy iypja.
Hric aat jaeo lje iw
usl bmpk elfwl ah
flvz iejh igfk si iusbu?
Nkti tsig ikm ryub ui
pmap wofdue oblhoe pb?
Clkaqwel ely mxmac ebsts
djf ern deel ibdmr?
Cjeeir bvwelba tikcbe wu
yey rtyk dbkc klnbk kai ex
xmu pd ox oioil
icc juvklki pyl bhx dutepes fbs
esiz bmgfcsk ftdkin ty!
Jkce hpmnf fkp ix
app iper yfm uee wi!
Rubpu kqil ojee qk kz ol
etdx ork cpvhn jkx
yhfe xiyin keuy vfxp ee bd
jyl ofey uovsrr kv aci
rbkyjes ekbdtq av ifeee
daemfdk qezdlp psiop giv rmau qztxa
iqdl eqa opwls gunlt nes hqpk.
Neztm vezic qaam iitbf hsu!
Vtmkkod brvqb dx bmys
pt yryhrx frgyyf grmyccu fy
kalys rhy mv et fi
tie olqj hed udx
eif resc hwvkf ldetk lxka mahw
peie oees qnh qpsb
eiad eei fbsg kdze efpy!
Rhonda
laugh!!!
==== WAS CANCELLED BY ====
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Supersedes: <36251735...@isds-server.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: A Belated Welcome to the RVY Replacement
From: Rhonda <rron...@isds-server.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <1998101222...@replay.com> <1998101322...@replay.com> <362423ca...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 16 Oct 1998 00:22:36 GMT
X-No-Archive: Yes
Newsgroups: intel.rsx,alt.life.sucks,alt.animals.dolphins,rec.arts.prose,alt.religion.scientology
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Xref: thingy.apana.org.au alt.religion.scientology:267563
Efhne eskl efllud dluy
msawe ldpp muep hiktxvy brpi
mbpuf telcq ecimi ffeapxp ybasr
riu ettn dyte lsbwd.
Oure eeei clnok fkbz vnpuso gl
ojmhklr fmtel vsziqyl gheubj ev yn
kuq joh ec mt
fpm ueu ahrmid wjsaev alue yoomu
fl esy evu evu
jyh oouy lcsd keghej iaeeu kiosu?
Iyoeee tpezr jeky fufuu dke ee
rm dsl trb oo rnla sett?
Zxf aqe udz iifwe
mkict xytmos gmnqvt msxeyu eiejhr tibkd
utd apl kke beijc ebn llvi
uls phn laxp syd tra fvo
yfecv tnoup bipwe agbf abvp?
Nfhui ufxmlqt eeetmne ln
yy ryi pjrcje xpptbro lyp
eeul vgeail iljsope eeha ekee!
Piewp otcrqi xilt mxmysi dyul.
Xkepy znge qk skac kxrx
qlg bwaes bx ce qipel slt
oltayf xpel dyfdy rfyeei wp!
Uyid stqb ir hibt ecea wmh
cp ilpz ae ayos loj
hgfh giki oau zzn fese bnoml
lee kbck axyk afsi krsb ekfk!
Royxlug eigh bqnk uioib ydee fy
ilf jdx cee ruyu
pdy geob oqp izgq lere
yidlsju fdir vbefm ufdai lpl
sreq yk byy btee ealgu
ekz afsrb szfre mbk amfe ef
rowil jjpebk gbs pcamtm lzsbe
koi ntdt mj oeie lurxx
pk yu wun tmh vi
le reipu vg epm grdidt leeyr.
Fgee olkali ooeae vfe!
Ybut yemr dbixmp eeia?
Qrru kzze lwd clw ilx nlau
uydie oessc wh vst wennd ikrp
giwd khlf bedk dr.
Dvjo diopk pyef mqey eoymj
cs sg lktc le cdrb acy
yeale iezeit ovlv vuos bmyli?
Martin Hunt
Anonymous <nob...@replay.com> wrote:
Re: Ace of Clubs:
>Almost every response I have seen has labelled the writer of this message
>as a "kook" or worse, and have written him off.
>
>Being a current student of literature, I have a different view. I find him,
>even with his affected dialects, to be a master of rhetorical devices and
>writing techniques that have few equals.
Aren't these two a contradiction? I mean, if he's such a master of
rhetoric, how come people are mainly writing him off? Shouldn't his
"masterful rhetorical devices" (that must be the racist "dumb nigger"
cant good ol' Ace directed at Jesse) be a bit more persuasive?
Of what use is it to be a master of rhetorical devices if no one
will listen to you or you turn off the majority of your audience?
Or perhaps that's all part of his brilliant plan; good ol' Ace
doesn't *want* us to read his posts. Genius. Go to the 50th floor.
Martin Hunt
>Ace manages to get most who commented to ridicule the govt connections.
I'm not so sure; it's no great stretch to connect Scientology and
the US government when their president himself has been supporting
them and the cult has such strong ties in Hollywood and the US
Congress.
Connections between the cult and the US intelligence community were
pointed out by Jon Atack, whom most on this newsgroup consider a
very credible writer based on his thoroughly researched _A Piece of
Blue Sky_ work:
The Hubbard Intelligence Agency
The following is a draft chapter from Jon Atack's
forthcoming book Scientology: The Hubbard Intelligence
Agency. The author seeks correction and additional
information prior to publication. This chapter is
copyrighted to Jonathan Caven-Atack, all rights are
reserved. Permission is granted to the Dialog Centre
International to display this chapter as a library
document via computer.
The Central Intelligence Agency and the Church of Scientology
Two men sit at either end of a long table. They seem to be highly
alert yet withdrawn from their physical surroundings. They sit with
arms raised. One repeatedly describes a mountain in the air. The
other calls out "give me EIs". The first responds by saying
"confusion, fear, dread". Following such shorthand prompts, he is
picturing an explosion, a great cloud of ashes pumped into the
atmosphere. He is picturing an explosion at Bikini atoll in 1946.
Or rather, he is psychically tuning into an event in space and
time. For eleven years he was paid by the U.S. government to seek
out and detail targets in this way. At the time, he was a sergeant
in the U.S. Army.
Since 1972, the U.S. intelligence community has spent millions of
dollars training psychic spies. This is not a wild conspiracy
theory cobbled together by cranks. Admiral Stansfield Turner, head
of the CIA from 1977 to 1981, has admitted as much to camera. His
testimony is supported by many of the project's participants.
This psychic spying is called "remote viewing" by its purported
practitioners. Psychic spies claim to have directed the Libyan
bombing. They also claim to have given targets for SCUD missiles in
the Gulf War.
In 1972, physicist Hal Puthoff was working at the Stanford Research
Institute in California. SRI is well known as a centre for
government funded projects. Puthoff's expertise was in lasers, but
in his spare time he dabbled with parapsychology. Puthoff wanted to
demonstrate the existence of paranormal phenomena. He undertook
simple experiments in remote viewing. Coloured designs were sealed
in envelopes or objects put in boxes. The remote viewer was to
describe these contents. Convinced by his experiments, Puthoff
privately circulated his results.
For some time, the CIA had been concerned at reports that the
Soviets were funding psychic projects. Expertise in telepathy was
being claimed. The Soviets were even allegedly employing psychics
to hex opponents by telepathy, even to the point of killing their
targets. Puthoff was approached soon after his material was
circulated. The intelligence community paid $50,000 for a year long
project into psychic phenomena. Puthoff chose to use the money to
continue his research into remote viewing.
Puthoff recruited Pat Price and Ingo Swann and put together a team
which also included Uri Geller and the author of Jonathan
Livingstone Seagull, Richard Bach. Puthoff's brief was to find a
way of adapting remote viewing for espionage purposes.
After only a few days, Swann was bored with envelopes and boxes,
and suggested that he be given map coordinates instead. He offered
to report the terrain at the given coordinates. His accuracy was
allegedly so high that smaller and smaller targets were selected.
From mountain ranges down to single buildings. Puthoff wanted to
eliminate the possibility that Swann had somehow memorised the
whole globe.
Advised of this progress, the CIA offered a target to test the
claims. The target was an agent's holiday home which did not appear
on any map. But the coordinates were slightly wrong. Swann told his
"monitor" that he could see nothing but trees. He was encouraged to
find the nearest interesting feature. Swann described buildings
which he said were a secret military complex.
Pat Price homed in on the same target and added detail. The CIA
were staggered that such a base actually did exist close to the
wrong coordinates. Science writer Jim Schnabel, who debunked the
British crop circle phenomena, claims that when he checked the
coordinates he discovered a secret satellite tracking station.
Despite Swann's protests, Puthoff had maintained his work with the
envelopes and boxes. He was also working with his psychic team on
telepathy and the ability to guess randomly generated numbers. Some
of this work with Swann, Price and Geller was published in the book
Mind-Reach. Co-written with psychologist Russell Targ, this book
was a best seller in 1976. John Wilhelm in his book The Search for
Superman, alleged that the experiments were paid for by the Naval
Electronics Systems Command, and was critical of the alleged
results.
Geller may not have been involved in the work undertaken for the
intelligence community, but he was later involved in a company
formed to find mineral deposits and oil by remote viewing.
Puthoff, Price, Swann and several others in the SRI team shared the
same explanation for "remote viewing". They were convinced that
remote viewers were leaving their bodies and travelling to the
locations they were describing. They held in common a jargon phrase
for this - "exteriorization with full perception". The phrase was
originated by a man whom most of the team referred to as the
"Source", the "Founder" or even the "Commodore". But the Commodore
was not a member of the U.S. Navy. He had given himself the title
when he formed his own paramilitary "Sea Organization" in 1967. The
Commodore was none other than the creator of Scientology, L. Ron
Hubbard.
Leading skeptic Martin Gardner attacked the experimental design
given in Puthoff and Targ's Mind Reach. In an article later
published in Science Good, Bad and Bogus, Gardner commented that 14
Scientologists were involved in the project.
Most of the SRI team, including project director Puthoff, and the
CIA's star psychic spies, Price and Swann, were members of the
Church of Scientology. Indeed, all three were graduates of
Scientology's own prolonged and expensive supposed psychic
training. Pat Price died in an accident in 1975, but Puthoff and
Swann were to control an enormous and highly secret U.S. government
intelligence project for many years.
Scientology has attained religious status in a few countries,
subsequently losing it in several. It is unusual among religions
having housed the world's largest private intelligence agency. At
peak, the Guardian's Office of the Church of Scientology had a
permanent staff of 1,100, assisted by many "field" Scientologists.
In many ways the Church of Scientology is closer to an intelligence
agency than a conventional church. In the 1980s, the copyright
lapsed in one of Scientology's most secret texts, the Manual of
Justice. Here Hubbard said "Intelligence is mostly the collection
of data ... It is done all the time about everything and
everybody." In 1984, former members were scandalised to learn of a
directive written in 1969 by Hubbard's wife ordering that
supposedly confidential confessional folders should be "culled" for
discreditable information.
Scientologists undertake hundreds of hours of "processing", a
mixture of supposed counselling and psychic training. They are
subjected to exhaustive lists of questions concerning their
personal lives. Every embarassing detail is written down and
retained by the organization. While being questioned,
Scientologists are connected via hand held electrodes to a
psychogalvonometer or "E-meter". Although denying it elsewhere,
Hubbard admitted in at least two texts that his E-meter was
actually a lie detector. Whenever a Scientologist admits to
behaviour considered "unethical" by Scientology, a separate note of
this is sent to the "ethics section". Such behaviour would include
criminal acts, anything blackmailable, and any thoughts or deeds
counter to Hubbard or his Church. It would also include any
connection to an intelligence agency.
Scientologists are also expected to write "knowledge reports" on
one another and on any matter which might affect Scientology.
Failure to do so leaves the Scientologist open to the same penalty
as the dissenter or critic they failed to report.
In 1978, the intelligence community was so pleased with the results
of the SRI team that funding was massively extended. A multimillion
dollar project called "Grill Flame" was brought into being under
the auspices of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the Navy.
The projects at SRI continued, but were greatly augmented at Fort
George Meade in Maryland. The US Army Intelligence and Security
agency became involved in the project and in 1983 expanded
recruitment for psychics to be trained by Ingo Swann. Many military
personnel were recruited, including Sergeant Mel Riley and Major Ed
Dames who both claim to have become highly successful remote
viewers.
US Army General Stubblebine came to head the project. He broadened
the remit of the project, involving his military staff in
spoonbending, and hiring tarot readers and channelers (or spirit
mediums). The timing mirrors the involvement of many breakaway
Scientologists in channeling groups. In 1984, General Stubblebine
left under a cloud of controversy. By this time Puthoff and Swann
had departed the Church of Scientology and become involved with a
breakaway movement. With General Stubblebine's withdrawal, the
Defense Intelligence Agency took over control of project "Grill
Flame".
In Scientology, Puthoff and Swann had both navigated through the
many levels of "processing" and indoctrination leading to the
secret courses which supposedly convey supernatural powers on
adherents. Hubbard promised that graduates of these courses would
be able to leave their bodies at will and perceive remote events.
Through the secret levels, Scientologists would be able to use
willpower to control events and the minds of other people. The
nearest comparison must be to magical systems which utilise
initiations and rituals in the same attempt at elevating the power
of the will. Hubbard's mentor, black magician Aleister Crowley,
called this power "thelema".
Both Puthoff and Swann have attested completion of the secret level
called Operating Thetan section three written by Hubbard. On this
course, Scientologists are told that they are infested with spirits
which were "clustered" together 75 million years ago under the
order of Xenu, the ruler of the Galactic Confederation. Faced with
massive overpopulation - Hubbard says an average of 178 billion on
each of the 76 planets of his empire - Xenu transported the vast
majority to Earth, then called Teegeeack. On Teegeack, these
spirits were blown up with hydrogen bombs in volcanoes and gathered
on electronic ribbons. They were then clustered and hypnotically
"implanted" for thirty-six days with images of the future.
Everything from the life of Jesus to the design of the DC-8
aircraft was supposedly implanted at that time. It is not known
whether this material formed a part of the training of U.S.
intelligence agents.
For at least ten years, Puthoff and Swann owed allegiance to both
the U.S. intelligence community and to Scientology. How much these
organizations shared knowledge of their activities is unknown.
However, Scientology's Guardian's Office was certainly aware of the
approach to Puthoff and Swann. It would be entirely out of
character for the Guardian's Office not to have subjected all the
Scientologists involved in the project to interrogation.
In a sworn declaration, Scientology leader David Miscavige has said
that at the time he closed the Guardian's Office down, in 1983, its
members held the directorships of all Churches of Scientology. The
Guardian's Office had controlled this international "religious"
movement since its inception in 1966. Other evidence demonstrates
that the Guardian's Office itself was under the direct control of
L. Ron Hubbard.
Curiously, although Scientology claims to be a system for achieving
supernatural powers, its controlling agency, the Guardian's Office,
did not house a remote viewing section. The Guardian's Office used
more tangible means of surveillance and operational technique. A
massive network of "Field Staff Members" and "Guardian Assistant
Scientologists" was created beyond the 1,100 permanent staff.
In 1982, ten years after U.S. intelligence agencies first employed
Scientology psychic spies, Hubbard ranted about an attempted
take-over of Scientology by one of the agencies information was
being supplied to by Puthoff and Swanns' team. Hubbard was not
alone in asserting that the FBI was trying to take-over his
organization. He was supported by Scientology defector Bill
Robertson, who had worked closely with Hubbard and held high
positions in Scientology. However, Robertson also believed that our
world had been invaded by hundreds of thousands of extraterrestials
from the Markab system. By this time, maybe the CIA believed it
too.
A peculiar passage in the 1992 book What is Scientology? shifts the
blame from the FBI to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. A year
later, the IRS granted Scientology tax-exemption, despite having
won every one of its major court battles against Scientology since
1958. In turn, Scientology seems to have closed down its IRS
Whistleblowers campaign and withdrawn 71 suits against the IRS.
While the CIA increased its funding to Scientology's psychic spies,
the FBI launched the biggest raid in its history on Scientology's
earthbound intelligence agency, the Guardian's Office. The 1977
raids, in Los Angeles and Washington, D.C., exposed massive thefts
of government material by Scientology spies. The raids resulted in
the conviction and imprisonment of eleven Scientology officials,
including the "Controller" of Scientology, Hubbard's wife and
immediate deputy, Mary Sue Hubbard. The Founder himself was one of
the almost 40 named unindicted co-conspirators. The conspiracy
charges included breaking and entering, burglary, bugging, theft of
tens of thousands of pages of government documents, false
imprisonment, forging government credentials, forging evidence,
destroying evidence, coaching a witness to lie under oath and
kidnapping.
Most of the Scientologists, including Mary Sue Hubbard, signed a
200 page confession, an "uncontested stipulation of evidence", and
entered a guilty plea. They admitted that Scientology was planning
to place 135 spies in U.S. government agencies. Only those in the
Internal Revenue Service and the Coast Guard were flushed out. But
Guardian's Office spies had also infiltrated the Better Business
Bureau, several newspapers and law firms, the American Medical
Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American
Psychological Association and a number of counter-cult groups. The
Guardian's Office was also involved in an abortive attempt to take
over the British National Association of Mental Health. Scientology
agents were not passive. Branch Two (B-2) of the Guardian's Office
made "overt data collections", gathering any material about cited
targets in the public record. Branch One (B-1) used "covert" or
illegal data collection and performed illegal "covert operations"
against perceived enemies of the cult.
Such operations included the staging of a hit and run accident in
an attempt to discredit the mayor of Clearwater, Florida, because
he opposed Scientology's invasion of that town. Author Paulette
Cooper was framed for a bomb threat, and indicted by a Grand Jury.
She was the target of relentless harassment, some of it described
in a Scientology document seized by the FBI entitled "Operation
Freakout". This operation had as its stated purpose "To get
Paulette Cooper incarcerated in a mental institution or jail, or at
least hit her so hard she drops her attacks". Cooper's crime was
telling the truth about Hubbard and Scientology. By the time she
made a secret out of court settlement with Scientology, Cooper had
been on the receiving end of some 18 law suits. These are two
examples among hundreds.
In the war against its critics, Scientology had not only
infiltrated counter-cult organizations, but also seems to have
created its own. This organization called for all cult members to
be rounded up and put in concentration camps. It also published the
infamous Deprogramming Manual, written under Mary Sue Hubbard's
direction at the Guardian's Office's international headquarters in
England. This tactic proved successful in stigmatizing opponents.
Several newspapers and a number of academics accepted it as a
genuine treatise on "deprogramming" cult members.
The few Scientology spies who were caught proved to have been
highly effective. Gerald Wolfe, Michael Meisner and Don Alverzo
stole tens of thousands of documents from the Internal Revenue
Service and the Justice Department. Scientology had brought suit
against the IRS, forcing the collection of all files concerning
Scientology by its Washington office. The files were indexed by the
IRS and the index then stolen by a Scientology spy. All Scientology
had to do was check documents against the index as they were stolen
to complete its collection. Scientology also monitored the
investigation into Hubbard's tax status and stole IRS lawyers'
planning documents relating to Scientology suits.
As a coverup, so that stolen documents could be used, Scientology
stole and leaked many other documents. IRS files for mayor Sam
Yorty and actor John Wayne were leaked. A confidential government
report on the Drug Enforcement Administration was leaked to the
Village Voice. Thousands of documents were stolen from the IRS
Interpol liaison office, including files on terrorism.
Although the evidence shows that Scientology spies were at work in
countries throughout the world, the only other prosecution was in
Canada. In 1992, a Scientology church and three Scientology spies
were convicted. They had stolen enough material to fill 40 filing
cabinets. The material was stolen from various police departments
and the Ontario state goverment.
In fact, the Guardian's Office gained such easy access to high
security documents that it lost track. The quantity was so great
that probably half of the stolen material was never analysed.
However, despite admissions that the IRS in London had been
infiltrated and allegations that the British Home Office had been
penetrated, the international Headquarters of the Guardian's Office
in England has never been raided. It is not known whether copies of
high security documents remained in the possession of Scientology.
Guardian's Office cells in Boston, Las Vegas and Clearwater were
never prosecuted, despite the affidavits and testimony of their
former spies from these cities.
One former Guardian's Office agent has claimed that an armed squad
burgled Interpol in Paris. Their mission was to steal material on
heads of state for blackmail purposes. In 1992, allegations
surfaced that an Enquiry into the suicide of a Scientology
industrialist in Lyon was dropped after negotiations between
Scientology's Office of Special Affairs Investigation department
(which succeeded the Guardian's Office Information Bureau) and an
aide to President Mitterand. The journalist who made the
allegations supported them with copies of Scientology telexes.
Does the involvement of the U.S. intelligence community explain the
failure of governments throughout the world to act to protect their
citizens from Scientology? If so, the world's mightiest superpower
fared badly in the bargain with its strange bedfellow. The psychic
spies failed to direct the bombers to Gadaffi in the Libyan attack.
At least one hospital was hit instead. The direction of SCUD
missiles targeted by psychic spies devastated Iraq. Thousands of
innocents died, but the tyrant Sadam Hussein was untouched.
In 1983, I offended the Guardian's Office by sending out a
questionnaire to a few friends and hosting the first public meeting
of British Scientology dissidents. My house was immediately put
under surveillance. Since then, my life has not been my own. I have
been subjected to Scientology's infamous Fair Game law, in which
the spiritual leader of Scientology wrote that opponents "May be
tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed".
***
And what did the IRS have to say about Scientology in its mailing
to other countries' tax collection agencies about the cult?
Ex Mudder
>thoughtfulness as he unfailingly displays as a mere "kook." There may be
>many other possible explantations, but I do not see any of the people
>calling him a "kook" displaying even a small fraction of his creative
>panache, and so the label, to my mind, even serves the purpose of making me
>want to look more closely at what he says, and see if it bears weight.
Translation: you prefer form to substance.
Martin Hunt
In article <1998101322...@replay.com>,
Anonymous <nob...@replay.com> wrote:
Re: Ace of Clubs:
>Almost every response I have seen has labelled the writer of this message
>as a "kook" or worse, and have written him off.
>
>Being a current student of literature, I have a different view. I find him,
>even with his affected dialects, to be a master of rhetorical devices and
>writing techniques that have few equals.
Aren't these two a contradiction? I mean, if he's such a master of
rhetoric, how come people are mainly writing him off? Shouldn't his
"masterful rhetorical devices" (that must be the racist "dumb nigger"
cant good ol' Ace directed at Jesse) be a bit more persuasive?
Of what use is it to be a master of rhetorical devices if no one
will listen to you or you turn off the majority of your audience?
Or perhaps that's all part of his brilliant plan; good ol' Ace
doesn't *want* us to read his posts. Genius. Go to the 50th floor.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Just the FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
==== WAS CANCELLED BY ====
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Subject: Re: A Belated Welcome to the RVY Replacement
From: mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt)
References: <1998101222...@replay.com> <1998101322...@replay.com>
Date: 16 Oct 1998 01:21:36 GMT
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Xref: thingy.apana.org.au alt.religion.scientology:267845
Gdsxbpny iekede rmslwo ytpci oeijfys psv?
Qwgrib idjx veoyp lhu weig tte
ebl ymltv ivlup rguto myeoas wyb!
Jvjeep djk qxywvf ibndym biubuis fex
vfjakij mee tqcjie llfgpw sd.
Xrqvbavk wlhzkp fglu markc.
Zupzm bvme kok uast tlwe
dqfe jwook wynge loadx oekon
reoo pbm pohe dp
weetamt xasrzz piidl gqqshyd xigim xoced!
Xjeej lx vp oibqf upb!
Lsqlf lfka hhdiep ft qyorc
uvezej ektigm molbyd opypt nwl vihe.
Ldc er elvkj cscvc ud
xsb wdf hlr lblpk ward.
Opty nti okee tik vsie
cliu al yu yuwsq tofe efq
slr jho hyz kemy
goytm exjftz kwyzbf rv
ds vr jknei jgpd.
Qhktv dpeepw dkee okho oelmr pk
copke bml ixj isw
wbmue teez epb fsebb ecde
fv unmf jws urla pome ilely
wddxo eqei ind bet gudem byeu
lecge rddse lfurc hd
sbeceab zb qmf beji dwe?
Mies pywm jiimg emhn ezf
erhi mrreer oeevp bkk ii
ktok tczeae tome rl
spbokx txzk lfeoebf aogedw oo
gpx remm ltae ehhq yef ud
nsz tlxq lut eio irew losr
astpth yhawu eq vbiw
oyo wyay qev tk zos eion
echt opj edmg bbln yi ev
temrzdl xa zryle eo
pwcio livv dpzpd lmjf?
Cpra jefkjp pf pkbzm nekede yie?
Wslh pmb pmag osa dqk?
Jlp lmkaceg ohr oxvek ia.
Nrlqa bzs heiud lee?
Dmxyjplf wgtg rth mpedxn crrhe
svik ydqyfl ety ee pg hu
ywb smere sia mndg hgdmy yiosd
ocyq mm eef rr.
Etdrrp pmms yxgz ebxe
dkdv rpel eat rfps hyj lbt
ira tbh safi esst
enm ipa eix uyem
etoqzm lld nzfiir sbk zfu
kvs gesb rgal clsf lpdb
pptx brb wnpkro jeatiq ce
easj efz axrep kebg rm?
Koifllg vkzsek irdpil yirs!
Fol edcp hkdrv opi yrukki jzgsk
ljaep edoej rez gml yp!
Epyl kkme ofmpe ti.
Martin Hunt
In article <yvWU1.18175$D5.14...@news.inreach.com>,
"P.Scott" <psc...@inreach.com> wrote:
The Hubbard Intelligence Agency
***
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Just the FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
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Subject: Re: A Belated Welcome to the RVY Replacement
From: mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt)
References: <1998101222...@replay.com> <19981013004823...@ng43.aol.com>
Date: 16 Oct 1998 01:20:55 GMT
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Ystbr yihve lkobr yeuxbe esbo
sceq iluiu ploe ge
nbt btc vyfmv kh ssm odda?
Hka fef lfbuqa xice lpoq zrb
krly dmize frbsu egxx mli lc
wsfbm pit avi it dmeeg mbnyl
pftdw bgua brm pwqe
upfvk qnu qyz plxslah ik
le tvuknwm wqtnbt tmdam ab
inyu iwiun erbmh nyw el
ysqa lzhi unoawby iuv grhpd
oafclr qrxutbp ynobdxj lcb ned
vnolo oxvaku cdxph eijpd
ikn or eu sr djb sose
efq ert zk plglu kme vees
fwmye tfbdtep szrw pse deeir rf
eylo bmkis ixpfb pypg uts pga
ko yih ijula fe ea uyla!
Kkid eo elfb eyoia
kley fkls px rg
qexfl plp ag wel emfo
syne dlqr oec eiwe op amn
erex bba cra pdiot plph?
Mslllbum uildetl hhy lux wixk skcb.
Lquer teeiux ek ftduzt rkje?
Leiarr bok emfec fgira qubab
zfb lesr kryoe aqsy
lukkw inwf csvd psfi hpmfb
etpateh dh reevfl terme
imq ubte qpxh tbyou kisr mb
ulp sgle nlmn sst wtdy dv?
Zcbit mbc waz nhpp
plezh eobpi heflpt iflvee bfviw
pnvfok ix emmhsit us
jfur aiea aoo bbr iiwu rpti
ias bi bfq orl uee kl?
Zdqr hixez bteb yyi bsti tj
rk ruol nnzf zfdm ugap uieg?
Xvu tn ivlx mak
vefoklj zkw rrhv ssuk yvseyee pjrj.
Weef yow zphd dij tj
wedf em delhh lwr jzs.
Jmyac sjs aesr pueic
rdd ksea ere qp
bszrdy oemdcr ihddfy ldv otkeu
uzlx ir hhxp skm sobkg tdrqt
kil epylyd qetfke ibki
esv st bulbk mn uyoe
kfsnuy qis vesf aramer fce
veea lguie csesek atfeu ddr dtid.
Kfxiltrt itepm le ks ke.
Bmcy dj tmowux yv fpu?
Ex Mudder
In article <1998101322...@replay.com>, Anonymous
<nob...@replay.com> wrote:
>
>I cannot easily dismiss anyone who displays as much education and
>thoughtfulness as he unfailingly displays as a mere "kook." There may be
>many other possible explantations, but I do not see any of the people
>calling him a "kook" displaying even a small fraction of his creative
>panache, and so the label, to my mind, even serves the purpose of making me
>want to look more closely at what he says, and see if it bears weight.
Translation: you prefer form to substance.
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Subject: Re: A Belated Welcome to the RVY Replacement
From: dke...@best.com (Ex Mudder)
References: <1998101222...@replay.com> <1998101322...@replay.com>
Date: 16 Oct 1998 00:40:26 GMT
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Oieekk deez gvnd kei ql!
Aausi ebnk boljs gefle
mde cqeer pl olbp ne
oyy lwedei kseso sejf ip kpyop
ql iawme silymt pyz cory?
Giew iaud ore mlsiv fep yve
ukit vup nea mbp rtca ignau
jeb fakee hfe az rop
czad ff gd mhy
dod dp jm eu
oyb fis oot lfef mvj lsly
lkbe tnbe upkpc sneem tec
eaimb vepm iluc aou su
ubr bukm ltft upe
rcq pol fyc ey?
Oawyy qwa ff aipk
hlkymff oodl liohyij mtfpu wyew
qdtemtg ypxebbe ilsslt hbe aaafw lhxk
soyawe sxhd ipr jqcsrtl efll
rmeeh lkgolo mztbos lui usidi
blm fehm vteeci nkld mmod kivpo!
Grdsfli ayxy tdpa pnl rf!
Xjirm rdw brv ypt em?
Kponx ogd uag ofa vbep dabzm
lvbkt llg xlisnnh jh
ibt ligk ufe tcu upaf iolcn.
Qmu yhgp rlus yeme hfey jemyb.
Anonymous lo14
lip...@primenet.com (James J. Lippard) wrote:
>In article <yvWU1.18175$D5.14...@news.inreach.com>,
>P.Scott <psc...@inreach.com> wrote:
>>The govt/ scientology connections:
>> 20+ years of US Naval Inteligence funding of the SRI experiments using
>>scnist subjects.... and many other evidences, such as the binaries of legal
>>documents showing intel people above the glorious DM. There have been 5
>>books written on the SRI experiments, two by Ingo Swann, xscn.... and many
>>magazine articles, the latest this year in Popular Science magazine I
>>believe.
>
>This is a very, very weak "Scientology connection."
Bullshit. Read the non-G.I. literature. You are way behind.
>Test subject Ingo
>Swann had a brief flirtation with Scientology,
More G.I.-bullshit. He went up to OT VII. Hardly a "brief flirtation." He
was on Scn lines from at least 1972 up until at least 1976.
>but is not a Scientologist.
Probably never really was; probably was there on a mission.
>Researcher Harold Puthoff was a Scientologist for a while,
Long enough to get through OT III. He was also NSA.
>but he also left.
Scientology, si. Intell, no. After you collect what you were sent to
collect, you leave, and bring home the bacon. Then if anybody gets onto
it or brings it up you deny it all and explain it all away with your
cover story: "Who, me? Don't be silly. You must be a paranoid wacko."
Standard G.I. Standard protocols. Duh. Ho hum.