MEO- I would have hoped for more out of Turbine
Wilson
from all the posts about it I'd say that this is the plan for releasing MEO.
Initial Small Area on Release-and why it does not matter.
I keep reading about people want this area to be open on release, or why
isnt X available on release.
I have decided, right or wrong, that these people have limited exposure to
this style of game.
This is not intended to flame those individuals or to make fun of them in
any way.
Reality:
There will be multiple starting locations based around the limited (their
description, not mine) map of Middle Earth.
Day one... you will fight and learn in a protected area. Depending on your
exposure and learning curve you can be there an hour to 3 days. If you test
multiple player professions this can be extended to a week.
Assume starting place is Shire (just and example)
We know it will take 45 minutes to cross the Shire in real time.
That is a big area folks... not big enough for an entire game, but plenty
big for exploration.
My guess is you will spend 2-3 weeks in and around the Shire before you can
ever venture further.
Why? Not because you love the beautiful scenery... nope...
Its call Monsters and growing levels of difficulty.
The further you venture from the safety of the Shire, the harder they will
get.
Draw a circle around each of the starting locations. None of them touching
each other with 1/4th the circum. being the difference between each circle.
That area inbetween is your biggest challenge. That is where the majority of
high level monsters will initially be located.
Who cares if you want to run off to (insert name), at release or not.
The reality is, it will take you a substantial amount of time to travel at
will around the area they do open.
The other aspect is that for me, I look forward to updates and expansions as
a way to keep my interest in the game.
Give it to us all at release, and you will have a mass exodus within 6
months.... the scene it done it mentality will drive em off.
To drive that last thought home... think of all the other games coming out
in 2004-05. They will be 100% new to you... MEO has to limit and time the
release of every area, item, monster, quest and so forth.... if you can do
it all in 6 months... you will do just that, and then off to the next game.
What a load or horse sh@t. This guy also debated that with me that
comparing AC which was essentially a finished game (with a few islands
added) was not a good analogy because Dereth was a made up world).....D'uh
am I missing something here?....and not complete at release because new
areas were added later.
Dave
Tim Smith
> What a load or horse sh@t. This guy also debated that with me that
> comparing AC which was essentially a finished game (with a few islands
> added) was not a good analogy because Dereth was a made up world).....D'uh
> am I missing something here?....and not complete at release because new
> areas were added later.
Being a made up world is important, I think. Me and several friends have
played several games, but while we are interested in SWG from a spectator
point of view, so we follow its progress, none of us are interested in the
least in actually *playing* it, and I think we all feel the same way about
MEO, and I think a big factor in this is where the stories come from.
Take Everquest. Norrath is all made up. We knew nothing about it outside
of what we got from the game and associated out-of-game material Sony made
available. So, when we arrive in Norrath, playing a level 1 nobody, it is
OK, because we don't have any legends we want to relive. Norrath is a
generic fantasy background, so that it has enough familiarity to make it
easy to get into, without any specific expectations to spoil it (other than
Rangers--everyone comes to pretty much every fantasy game that has Rangers
expecting Aragorn clones, and is disappointed when they don't find them).
In SWG, on the other hand, we've had 2 great movies about Luke and Leia and
Han and the rest, and 1 pretty good movie. We've had too so-so movies that
develop even more of the early lives of some of the major characters. And
then for many of us there are a bunch of SW books, which have added to the
legend. We've got a lot of SW already in our minds, and it all centers
around the world-changing actions of a few characters.
So, getting dumped into SWG as a weak nobody that has nothing to do with any
of the grand world-changing story that we know is just not appealing. When
I play a SW game, if I'm not going to be Luke or Han or Darth or someone
like that, I want to at least be someone who is their equal. That's my
fantasy--to be Han Solo, not to be the Han Solo's hair stylist or Han Solo's
pistol maker, and so SWG has no appeal to me. The connection to what I
think of SW is too weak. (If there had never been a SW, and this game was
the very first introduction to the SW universe, things would be different).
Same goes with MEO. Middle Earth is an intereting place. I've read the
books. I've seen two of the current movies, plus the horrible animated FotR
from the 70s. Tolkien threw in some great background, and some great
locations and monsters. However, the story is too much about a few
characters, and their world-changing actions. So, unless I can play Frodo
or Sam or Aragorn or Gandalf or one of the major bad guys or something like
that, a Middle Earth game just doesn't appeal to me. I'll watch from the
side, and see how they do, but I probably won't play myself.
It is possible to do well with a non-original background. It worked out
fine for Dark Age of Camelot, because those myths are sufficiently out of
the mainstream to not spoil things. Sure, we all know of Arthur and Merlin
and Lancelot, but there are enough legends of generic knights and wizards
and dragons and crusades that not being able to be Merlin or Arthur is OK.
Here are some science fiction or fantasy settings that I think could make
interesting MMORPGs, without the problem I see of SW and ME of being too
strongly associated with a specific set of characters.
1. Star Trek. With the original series, the next generation, DS9, and
Voyager, we've had four crews, which helps give the ST universe life apart
from the specific characters we've seen (The "Enterprise" series is too far
in the past to be relevant, I think (I suppose one could say the same for
the original series)). DS9 also did a good job of making the Klingons,
Ferengi, Bajorans, and Cardassians have enough background that people would
want to play them, and there has been enough variety in all those races that
people would not be disappointed if they could not play specific characters.
The main problem with a Star Trek MMORPG would be figuring out who to do an
MMORPG in space on ships. The series has focused enough on ships and space
stations that most of the action would have to be on ships and stations.
Also, almost everything takes place in a military-style command structure,
and it is not clear how to work that into an MMORPG. I suppose you could do
something where you play crew on ships. You start off as an ensign, and
instead of a class, you pick one of security, sciene, medical, or command,
and instead of missions from a mission terminal, you get assignments from
your NPC superior, eventually working your way up in rank to where you get
away missions?
2. Pern, from the series of Anne McCaffrey novels. Set it around the time
of the first book, when there is a lot of tension between dragonriders and
the rest, because it has been a long time since thread fell, and people have
forgotten the danger. With the dragonriders, the harpers, and everone else,
you've got a three-way power structure to provide a background for conflict,
and of course the resumption of thread fall.
3. Ringworld, from the novel by Larry Niven. Set this after the Niven
story. Have it so humans, and a few other races from Niven's "Known Space"
universe, have established bases on the Ringworld and are exploring it,
trying to find useful technology and stuff. The great thing about Ringworld
for a game is you've got something with a surface area bigger than millions
of Earths, and it was seeded by the builders with samples from all over the
galaxy, so you can have a game where you have thousands of aliens species,
each with a world-size territory, all reachable by a long (very long!) walk.
No need to introduce space travel.
4. The world from Niven's "Warlock" stories (e.g., "The Magic Goes Away").
5. Lankhmar (the world from Fritz Leiber's "Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser"
stories).
and finally,
6. Any of the major "Dungeons and Dragons" settings. Especially if the game
followed the current rules. D&D has given some great non-massive games
(Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, etc.). Why not an MMORPG?
--
--Tim Smith
nib
>
> 6. Any of the major "Dungeons and Dragons" settings. Especially if the game
> followed the current rules. D&D has given some great non-massive games
> (Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, etc.). Why not an MMORPG?
>
FYI, Turbine is doing a D&D MMORPG. They're developing it along side
MEO. (http://www.turbinegames.com/products/index.php?section=dnd)
nib
moldy
> Being a made up world is important, I think.
Ok, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster here. I read this ng
with relish every day, perhaps cos I like SWG so much, perhaps because
there is a fine mixture of humour, tension and useful information
here.
I read your post with great interest, some really good ideas here. I
really wanted to respond (but apologies if this post is a little
unreadable, I'm using Google atm - at work.)
> So, getting dumped into SWG as a weak nobody that has nothing to do with any
> of the grand world-changing story that we know is just not appealing.
I was worried about this at the beginning, but I've now found that I
am carving a very interesting story for myself, as many other
characters and groups are and rarely think about the film heroes any
more.
> That's my fantasy--to be Han Solo, not to be the Han Solo's hair stylist
/grin - nice one!
> 1. Star Trek.
Now this is the reason I so wanted to respond to your post. I think
your ideas about a Star Trek MMOG are fantastic. I didn't think there
would be a better target for MMOG's than SWG or MEO, but I think you
just hit the nail on the head.
> Also, almost everything takes place in a military-style command structure[...]
> You start off as an ensign, and
> instead of a class, you pick one of security, sciene, medical, or command,
> and instead of missions from a mission terminal, you get assignments from
> your NPC superior, eventually working your way up in rank to where you get
> away missions?
Especially this bit - w00t - Love it!
> 6. Any of the major "Dungeons and Dragons" settings. Especially if the game
> followed the current rules. D&D has given some great non-massive games
> (Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, etc.). Why not an MMORPG?
Oh yeah, just had to add my 2 credits here:
An MMOG based on D&D? erm D&D is based on Tolkien, as is EverQuest.
Fighters / Rangers / Mages - Orcs / Elves / Dwarves... Seen the
similarity yet???
Other than that I think you should get writing that Star Trek MMOG
pitch!
- autora (Corbantis)
Novice Merchant (Resource seller outside of Bestine)
Novice Pistoleer
Tom Welch
> So, getting dumped into SWG as a weak nobody that has nothing to do with any
> of the grand world-changing story that we know is just not appealing. When
> I play a SW game, if I'm not going to be Luke or Han or Darth or someone
> like that, I want to at least be someone who is their equal. That's my
> fantasy--to be Han Solo, not to be the Han Solo's hair stylist or Han Solo's
> pistol maker, and so SWG has no appeal to me. The connection to what I
> think of SW is too weak. (If there had never been a SW, and this game was
> the very first introduction to the SW universe, things would be different).
This point got me thinking. It would be great if in the future SWG
expanded to the point where these nobody characters could exist in a
significantly large universe that would allow online players to be
characters of significance. Sure you couldn't be Han Solo, but you could
be the Imperial Dictator on a small system or a Rebel base commander on a
remote moon. That way, you'd reach a level of prominence where you could
actually alter the shape of the universe. Instead of scrounging for
resources you'd be assembling assault forces and executing raids with
entire fleets. Too bad it isn't practical at all.
I can see a lucky few people getting to be characters of significance given
the current assortment of planets to choose from. Perhaps as many as 100
people per planet could have positions of varying degrees of power. Mayor
is a fine start but imagine having political factions. You could hire
Bounty Hunters to assassinate opposing leaders. You could manage hostile
takeovers within the ranks of your own faction. The possibilities are
endless.
Unfortunately, I think MMORPGs are destined to remain at a level where
every player is forced to settle for acheiving the same level of
mediocrity. Raise the bar and everyone goes up a notch moving the
definition of mediocrity up one step but effectively accomplishing nothing.
The whole Jedi system is a brilliant move toward allowing some players to
rise above mediocrity, but alas, we just create two levels of mediocrity.
Wilson
> 1. Star Trek. With the original series, the next generation, DS9, and
> Voyager, we've had four crews, which helps give the ST universe life apart
> from the specific characters we've seen (The "Enterprise" series is too
far
> in the past to be relevant, I think (I suppose one could say the same for
> the original series)). DS9 also did a good job of making the Klingons,
> Ferengi, Bajorans, and Cardassians have enough background that people
would
> want to play them, and there has been enough variety in all those races
that
> people would not be disappointed if they could not play specific
characters.
I'd kind of like to see a MMOG based on the Sims.
Dave
Grey Wolf
>Take Everquest. Norrath is all made up. We knew nothing about it outside
>of what we got from the game and associated out-of-game material Sony made
>available. So, when we arrive in Norrath, playing a level 1 nobody, it is
>OK, because we don't have any legends we want to relive. Norrath is a
>generic fantasy background, so that it has enough familiarity to make it
>easy to get into, without any specific expectations to spoil it (other than
>Rangers--everyone comes to pretty much every fantasy game that has Rangers
>expecting Aragorn clones, and is disappointed when they don't find them).
>
I don't disagree with this. For me, playing a MMORPG is fun as long
as there is a level of detail - whether it's a brand new universe
(like AC) or one based on an exisitig property. Without the level of
detail, any game would become boring for me.
With SWG, I feel like I'm actually in the SWG universe. Seeing
wookiees & other races running around that I can interact with (other
players), hearing the SW theme, or even the bleeps & gurgles of droids
and the blaster-fire of pistols... all of these things add to my
enjoyment and make me thankful there is a SWG online game. I'm
atually thanking my lucky stars that I don't have Vader coming down on
my ass. ha ha No, those big characters can keep to themselves. It
was cool, though, when I came across R2-D2 and C-3PO in the rebel base
on Corellia. :-)
>So, getting dumped into SWG as a weak nobody that has nothing to do with any
>of the grand world-changing story that we know is just not appealing. When
>I play a SW game, if I'm not going to be Luke or Han or Darth or someone
>like that, I want to at least be someone who is their equal. That's my
>fantasy--to be Han Solo, not to be the Han Solo's hair stylist
Ha ha! That's a great line. But I bet you'd make lots more credits
being Princess Leia's hair stylist! :-)
>or Han Solo's
>pistol maker, and so SWG has no appeal to me. The connection to what I
>think of SW is too weak. (If there had never been a SW, and this game was
>the very first introduction to the SW universe, things would be different).
The problem with that, though, is you can't build a MMORPG around that
concept because not *everyone* can be Luke, Leia or Han. Although I
haven't played any other SW single-player games, there's probably some
that come closer to fulfilling your wishes to play the main characters
than what you'll have in SWG, just because it's a MMORPG game. Some
might even have multiplay options... you'll just not have that sense
of community that comes with the MMORPG.
David
Hesop Ikeprak/Shadowfire
Tony Clark
"Wilson" <dwil...@ktis.net> wrote in message
news:vvji4a9...@corp.supernews.com...
Gerry Wolburg
or Zaphod Beetlebrox!
Or better yet, How about Harry Harrisons Stainless Steel Rat? Now being
"Slipery" Jim Di Griz has always been appealing! Or, maybe Bill the
galactic space hero? Or Buffy the Barbarian?
C'mon Kids, SWG is great, but a few of the others would be pretty lame.
Star Trek? I can just imagine battles going over traditionalists who would
want to use the original sets (can't you just hear the red alert siren going
on everytime there's combat? Warning, plot complication, plot
complication!) or the never been fully exposed gen X, Y and Z's who all
they want is the latest ship with morphing capability, cloaking devices,
supershields, Borg killing weapons and sexy crewmates (Unit designation is
44 of triple D!)?
Pern? Which version? The begining with the colonizers and their deadly and
losing battle against the thread? Or the Dragon master version? Tolkien
saga? C'mon, what kind of mage would you like that can only create light
with his staff and talk a lot? D & D sounds better!
Wilson
Tony Clark <curiousg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:asvKb.22647$lo3....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> It's done, Sims Online...LOL
Hehe, I know...been thinking about picking it up as I've become a fan of
Sims on Xbox. Has anyone played it? comments?
Dave
nib
I actually got the sims a while back (gift). In a nutshell, I found it
absolutely horrible. I mean, the object of the game is to simply live
your life? Please. You end up spening all your time making sure you eat,
you go to work, your house is clean, you use the bathroom and shower as
well as sleep. Why in the hell would I want to do those things in a
computer game???? I just never saw the least bit of entertainment in
that game and its success boggles my mind.
nib
The Spirit
Well you could play it the way my sister plays it. Get the sim all nice
and comfortable in their little world then start them on a slow, or
fast, ride into hell.
But yeah, I don't understand the attraction either.
The Spirit
Tim Smith
Smith wrote:
> Here are some science fiction or fantasy settings that I think could make
> interesting MMORPGs, without the problem I see of SW and ME of being too
> strongly associated with a specific set of characters.
Damn...forgot one, although it is not really SF or Fantasy.
An MMORPG based on the setting from the film "The Mission" could be very
interesting. That film was set in 18th century South America, and concerned
the Spanish missions that were trying to "civilize" and convert the natives,
the slave traders that wanted to enslave the natives, the power struggle in
Europe between the Church and the State, which was being played out in the
colonies, the political dealings between Spain and Portugal, and tensions
between the Jesuits that ran the missions and the non-Jesuit part of the
Church.
There's a lot of room there for an interesting game. Might also be a good
RTS setting.
--
--Tim Smith