OT: Hey LASERandDVDfan, ask and you shall receive.
Scott H
you asked for pics or evidence of what I was talking about, and then you
killed the thread on your reader so you couldn't see my reply. This is in
regards to the warping and spiderweb effect in PS1 games:
http://home1.gte.net/res0zjb2 ->Comparisons-> PS1 glitches
Mothra
news:rz0Ka.42576$hI1....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net:
sorry in advance for this, but I really dislike Sony at the mo' and can't
bring myself to subscribe to any PS1/PS2 newgroups...
I remember returning my first PlayStation when it inevitably broke down,
only to receive a 'reconditioned' model that showed some weirdness when
playing Tomb Raider; most notably the colour shading in the underwater
sections - instead of being smooth shaded it looked more like an animated
contour map.
Had several more machines that ran the same, long conversations with Sony
on the telephone, started to think I had imagined the smoother graphics on
my first machine, etc.
Sold my PS1 in exchange for an N64, couple of years later decided to buy a
PS1 again and it worked just like my first one.
Did Sony change the spec of the graphics processor in their machines at
some stage?
ammo...@cc.full.stop.helsinki.fi
> I remember returning my first PlayStation when it inevitably broke down,
> only to receive a 'reconditioned' model that showed some weirdness when
> playing Tomb Raider; most notably the colour shading in the underwater
> sections - instead of being smooth shaded it looked more like an animated
> contour map.
> Did Sony change the spec of the graphics processor in their machines at
> some stage?
Yes, this was a bug in the earliest model.
-a
Scott H
news:bdglur$htf$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
Laser asked for sources on that as well, and I discovered that no
magazine or website has a report on it at all, much less any kind of defect
percentage. Do you know of any sources on this subject?
> -a
ammo...@cc.full.stop.helsinki.fi
> Laser asked for sources on that as well, and I discovered that no
> magazine or website has a report on it at all, much less any kind of defect
> percentage. Do you know of any sources on this subject?
A licensed developer mentioned it on a mailinglist and I've seen it
mentioned in a couple of other places. There may be some mention in some
developer documentation. AFAIK the problem is limited to the 1000 model,
don't know if the whole run has it. It only shows up when using a certain
combination of drawing options, so it's not visible in all games.
-a
ammo...@cc.full.stop.helsinki.fi
> It only shows up when using a certain combination of drawing options,
> so it's not visible in all games.
Oh, and if you didn't guess it from the description, the bug is in the
dithering process.
-a
LASERandDVDfan
He is in my killfile so any posts from him are blocked.
>A licensed developer mentioned it on a mailinglist and I've seen it
>mentioned in a couple of other places. There may be some mention in some
>developer documentation. AFAIK the problem is limited to the 1000 model,
>don't know if the whole run has it.
In other words, the problem is manifested in a faulty run of first generation
hardware which may have been corrected with later models, including the second
generation SCPH-1001.
Because of this variable, Scott's argument may be flawed.
However, I've considered this subject dead for the longest time now. -
Reinhart
Ocelot
ISTR it being a problem with gourad shaded polygons, reducing their
colour depth to 18-bit so the smooth colour gradient would be reduced
to bands of colour. This affected the SPCH 100x models (all regions)
and the early 'blue' development units as well (H1001, H1101). It
definitely rears it's head in Tomb Raider.
Regards,
Rob S.
LASERandDVDfan
Okay, so my SCPH-1001 may indeed be affected. Fortunately, I mainly use my
SCPH-30001 R PS-2 for my PSX games.
But, still, making the argument and accusing the entire format of being flawed
just because of a design drawback on first and second generation consoles is
ludicrous.
Most SCPH-100X models are most likely out of operation anyways, replaced with
later models that did not have the bigger problems with disc reads that had
plagued that series.
I own a mint condition SCPH-1001, but it's been mint because I've serviced it
to fix its disc drive defects. - Reinhart
Scott H
news:bdhh20$24e$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
I was referring to the much more common issue of having to turn the PS1
on its side or on its top so it'll play games without locking up. It had
something to do with the CD lens itself, or the motor, not sure which.
It was a common problem yet I know of no report of it, and no officially
admitted defect rate, even though it occurred for more than just the first
run of Playstations, and every repair shop I know of knows that Sony would
void people's warrantee for calling about it, claiming that the user
obviously played the system too much. It seems likes something there should
be some kind of article on, but there seems to be nothing at all.
--
My Multipurpose Page O Doom: http://home1.gte.net/res0zjb2
Fact based console history starting from the 8-bit days, quality software
lists for Genesis, SegaCD, 32X, Saturn, PS1, Dreamcast and PS2, popular game
comparison pics and articles, a few game reviews, and I'm always accepting
more gamer's perspectives on the facts and comments on the site via E-mail
or Usenet.
Scott H
news:20030627194417...@mb-m20.aol.com...
> >This affected the SPCH 100x models
>
> Okay, so my SCPH-1001 may indeed be affected. Fortunately, I mainly use
my
> SCPH-30001 R PS-2 for my PSX games.
>
> But, still, making the argument and accusing the entire format of being
flawed
> just because of a design drawback on first and second generation consoles
is
> ludicrous.
>
> Most SCPH-100X models are most likely out of operation anyways, replaced
with
> later models that did not have the bigger problems with disc reads that
had
> plagued that series.
It's really too bad you have me killfiled, as I could tell you that
you've once again misunderstood everything I was trying to say. I said that
every PS1 game had polygon seperation and texture warping as the objects
approached the screen. You then said to prove it and that you'd never seen
such warping or seperation, and I did (
http://home1.gte.net/res0zjb2/PS1flaws.htm ). Now you're confused about the
gourad shading bug that I've never commented on, or seen, and claiming that
I'm trying to claim *it* was wide spread.
--
My Multipurpose Page O Doom: http://home1.gte.net/res0zjb2
Fact based console history starting from the 8-bit days, quality software
lists for Genesis, SegaCD, 32X, Saturn, PS1, Dreamcast and PS2, popular game
comparison pics and articles, a few game reviews, and I'm always accepting
more gamer's perspectives on the facts and comments on the site via E-mail
or Usenet.
ammo...@cc.full.stop.helsinki.fi
> I was referring to the much more common issue of having to turn
> the PS1 on its side or on its top so it'll play games without locking
> up. It had something to do with the CD lens itself, or the motor, not
> sure which.
So why did you reply to my message about a completely different matter?
Yes, the CD drives of Playstations do wear down, but as a Sega apologist
that's maybe not something you should focus on seeing as Dreamcast
drives are failing both at a higher rate and quicker. The first batches
of PS2s reportedly have DVD drives made out of inferior materials, which
Sony has acknowledged.
-a
LASERandDVDfan
>> the PS1 on its side or on its top so it'll play games without locking
>> up. It had something to do with the CD lens itself, or the motor, not
>> sure which.
Since someone went ahead and quoted, I'll explain to Scott what caused the
skipping.
The optical pickup in many early runs of the PlayStation console were made of
plastic. A part of the pickup rests on part of the traverse assembly and would
groove during normal use. Eventually, this grooving would cause the pickup to
rest at an angle the laser would aim off trajectory. The servo control would
correct the aim at the objective lens until the grooving becomes such that the
servo is unable to counter the physical tilt.
The fix was simple. Sony stopped using plastics for the pickup housing and
started using diecast metals instead. Newer SCPH-1001 consoles and pretty much
all later models do not have the skipping problems that the older SCPH-1001 and
SCPH-1000 have had.
The optical pickup can still wear out through normal use, but this is true of
any optical pickup for any laser optical disc drive. Most consoles that have
this problem will have been replaced by a newer model that has this problem
corrected.
As for another quote by the poster that quoted Scott....
>The first batches
>of PS2s reportedly have DVD drives made out of inferior materials, which
>Sony has acknowledged.
One of the biggest problems with the PS-2 drives is that they are allowed to
accumulate too much dust. This dust dries up the lubrication for the pickup
kicker mechanism, which keeps it from being able to move the pickup back and
forth as fast as it has to, especially in CD-ROM reads. (So now you know one
of the main causes that a problematic PS-2 may not read a blue-bottom disc and
would also make rapid clicking noises while trying to read such a disc
unsuccessfully.) The dust can also accumulate inside the optical pickup
itself. Dust may not affect the bearings of the brushless spindle motor as
those bearings are permanently sealed.
I've repaired many problematic PS-2s by giving them a good cleanout. The dust
accumulation can be bad enough that a can of compressed air won't cut it. I
have to use an electric air compressor of the kind used to inflate car tires to
effectively clean out the pickup and drive of any dust. I direct the air in a
certain way which cleans the dust out, but doesn't damage the pickup. I also
have to clean out and apply new lubrication to the kicker mechanism. I've only
had one PS-2 that could not be fixed by doing this since it had a worn pickup.
Models repaired include the SCPH-30001 and SCPH-30001 R. - Reinhart
Scott H
news:bdj44a$sgq$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
I misunderstood your post, that is why I replied with a question about
the CD-Drive issue, I apologize. Because I like Sega consoles and games,
and like to discuss "what if" scenarios about their consoles and games does
not mean that I would deny a defect rate for a Sega console, and then make a
big deal about a Sony console's defect rate. I only asked for a link or
magazine article that at least discusses the subject of the defective PS1s,
I do not intend to do anything but catalog it as a source, since people like
LaserandDVDfan don't believe the defective systems ever existed.
On the subject of the Dreamcast drives wearing down, the last I heard
this was due to playing certain games that caused the lens to have to search
too much, mostly PC ports and all CDR copies. Have you heard differently?
I have also noticed another issue where launch models are more sensitive to
scratches on the GD than later models, and also some launch models,
manufactured 8/99, won't play some games at without locking up, namely Skies
of Arcadia.
I don't know how many of the launch models are affected like this, as
the Gamestop manager didn't even believe me until I made him try the system
on any game he chose, and then try it on Skies, and my launch system played
the Skies disc just fine, but I know of at least one other instance posted
in AGVS-Dreamcast about the same issue.
> -a
Scott H
> > >$v71....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
> > >
> > > Sorry for the OT post, I would have put it in the old thread, but, well,
> > > you asked for pics or evidence of what I was talking about, and then you
> > > killed the thread on your reader so you couldn't see my reply. This is in
> > > regards to the warping and spiderweb effect in PS1 games:
> > >
> > > http://home1.gte.net/res0zjb2 ->Comparisons-> PS1 glitches
> >
> my
> > SCPH-30001 R PS-2 for my PSX games.
> >
> > But, still, making the argument and accusing the entire format of being
> flawed
> > just because of a design drawback on first and second generation consoles
> is
> > ludicrous.
> >
> > Most SCPH-100X models are most likely out of operation anyways, replaced
> with
> > later models that did not have the bigger problems with disc reads that
> had
> > plagued that series.
>
>
> It's really too bad you have me killfiled, as I could tell you that
> you've once again misunderstood everything I was trying to say. I said that
> every PS1 game had polygon seperation and texture warping as the objects
> approached the screen. You then said to prove it and that you'd never seen
> such warping or seperation, and I did (
> http://home1.gte.net/res0zjb2/PS1flaws.htm ). Now you're confused about the
> gourad shading bug that I've never commented on, or seen, and claiming that
> I'm trying to claim *it* was wide spread.
>
Moreover I was only using the examples of graphical flaws and
CD-Drive defect rates as an example of things people *would* point to
as Sony's mistakes, had the PS1 failed to achieve success. My point,
as I repeated many times until you got frustrated and killfiled me,
was that people only call things mistakes if the overall picture is
considered a failure.
Don't worry, I won't dodge your killfile like this again, but if
you're going to killfile somebody, be a man and don't reply to other
people's comments to him. Doing so stupid and childish, but then,
killfiling somebody only because you disagree with them is too.