AOE, AOE II and all the click fests; opinions?
purelight
Universalis are just a contest to see who can hot-key the fastest and
overwhelm the slower guys. I would love to see a cross between Clash of
Steel and Civilization in a RTS network enabled game. give me little city
icons and big big maps with terrain and ecconomies that reflect the maps.
Pushing peasants around and telling them what to build is for foremen, not
emperors. Telling individual units where to line up is for sergents and
captains, not generals.
--
My Web page:
http://www.marketing2success.com/r.cgi/pure
Steve
marcus
Now, I vastly (vastly) prefer Kohan to anything else out there (I'm not even
buying War3 for that reason), and WBC2 is actually one of the better
'clicky' rts games, but that doesn't mean the rest require no skill. I
played Starcraft competitively for a good long time, and the skill required
at higher levels had much less to do with clicking, and more to do with a
sound strategy, tactical implementation of such, and flexibility in the face
of changing battlefield conditions (oh, and inflexibility with early build
orders :P). That's not to say you could get by if you sucked at clicking -
you couldn't :P Which is one of the reasons most normal rts games bore me to
tears now.
Kohan for president!
JH
Totally agree.
Except that I did not play Starcraft (don't like sci-fi RTS).
I hate all the boring micromanagement in AOE and AOK too.
And - YES - The Kohan games rules the RTS :-)
JH
Rallying Too
"purelight" <pure...@attbi.com> wrote:
>I think almost all the RTS games with the exception of Kohan and Europa
>Universalis are just a contest to see who can hot-key the fastest and
>overwhelm the slower guys.
Currently, that is true. When pathfinding was horrible and there was
no queuing, it was worse. Bad pathfinding meant you had to repeatedly
give the same orders over and over again.
>I would love to see a cross between Clash of
>Steel and Civilization in a RTS network enabled game. give me little city
>icons and big big maps with terrain and ecconomies that reflect the maps.
>Pushing peasants around and telling them what to build is for foremen, not
>emperors. Telling individual units where to line up is for sergents and
>captains, not generals.
You might end up with the same problem only on a larger scale. I
think the solutions are hard fought. Like making units act smarter,
which is difficult to program. Like radically changing the interface
so that controlling units is easier. I think queuing has a lot of
potential, at least until the sum of clicking can be reduced.
Allowing lots of queuing, like when buildings are under construction
as seen in Total Annihilation might help. Also, there is Rallying™.
And then there is user editable starting area terrain. Current real
time strategy game makers seem to be getting into formations, which
seems good to me, I guess as long as the formation is correct while
retreating.
Maybe something else which employs queuing might work. How about time
intervals in which to enter or adjust orders? Everything would be
done by queuing, just like Pause & Give Orders, except the queued
orders would be entered periodically, automatically while the game is
underway. You would have no immediate control of your units.
Clicking speed would be controlled by the time interval and how far
you can plan ahead. The longer the time interval, the more you would
have to plan ahead. As in Total Annihilation, you would be able to
see your plans while holding the shift key down. If the time interval
is very short, you would approach the way things are now in real time
strategy. If the time interval is long, you have to think ahead or
your units become idle, misdirected, or destroyed. Combined with
queuing, I think that long intervals would have a better strategic
effect than slowing the speed in current real time strategy. I think
that method is different than simultaneous turn based too.
Please correct me if that technique is programmatically flawed, IOW if
I am overlooking a technical detail about its implementation.
Rallying Too
>Seems like pointless flamebait, but I don't agree.
Flamebait because you dislike the idea that you depend on frantic
clicking to win.
>
>Now, I vastly (vastly) prefer Kohan to anything else out there (I'm not even
>buying War3 for that reason), and WBC2 is actually one of the better
>'clicky' rts games, but that doesn't mean the rest require no skill. I
>played SC competitively for a good long time, and the skill required
>at higher levels had much less to do with clicking, and more to do with a
>sound strategy,
It has everything to do with very fast, prolonged clicking. The
clicking easily overwhelms the strategy, especially in SC.
>tactical implementation of such, and flexibility in the face
>of changing battlefield conditions (oh, and inflexibility with early build
>orders :P). That's not to say you could get by if you sucked at clicking -
That describes why clicking is king. That is talking about very fast
reaction to cheap shots. There are many opportunities for cheap shots
in SC. How fast a player reacts to those cheap shots determines
whether he (or she) can be competitive. Then there is the lack of
queuing, which enhances the "great micro".
javajeff
wrote:
>I think almost all the RTS games with the exception of Kohan and Europa
>Universalis are just a contest to see who can hot-key the fastest and
>overwhelm the slower guys. I would love to see a cross between Clash of
>Steel and Civilization in a RTS network enabled game. give me little city
>icons and big big maps with terrain and ecconomies that reflect the maps.
>Pushing peasants around and telling them what to build is for foremen, not
>emperors. Telling individual units where to line up is for sergents and
>captains, not generals.
I do not care for the word clickfest. I am 34 and can find success
playing these games against people that are much younger and faster.
Sure speed can be one variable, but it is not the only one. What you
lack in speed can be made up for in efficiency and smart play.
Everyone plays at the same speed: real time...so there are no
advantages. I enjoy using the keyboard and using hotkeys, so it is
fun gaming for me.
Regards,
javajeff
javajeff
wrote:
>
>I hate all the boring micromanagement in AOE and AOK too.
You can play AOK with little micromanagement. The gametype is called
Deathmatch. You start with the money you need to build an army right
away so you can fight in 10 minutes. You will still need resources to
perpetually produce units, but the gameplay is "army" first resources
second.
50% of AOK gamers on the zone play Deathmatch because of the little
micro. It will take some time for you to get used to it if you never
tried it before, but it is worth it if you love tactical games.
Regards,
javajeff
JH
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:48:35 +0200, "JH" <nosp...@eurosport.com>
> wrote:
>>
>
>> I hate all the boring micromanagement in AOE and AOK too.
>
> You can play AOK with little micromanagement. The gametype is called
> Deathmatch. You start with the money you need to build an army right
> away so you can fight in 10 minutes. You will still need resources to
> perpetually produce units, but the gameplay is "army" first resources
> second.
OK - hmm - maybe I should give my Empire Earth a chance more.
Got it for my birthday - and I would have sold it.
JH
Jeffrey L. Cooper
I am not too fond of the "age races" When I play Empire Earth, I
usually play random map one epoch games. Usually that epoch is Atomic
Modern because most of them play alike and it has the most units. I
used to play Deathmatch in Empire Earth, but it got too easy for me.
So I switched to the build economy games so that I could fight off
rushes while I build my big army.
I still play Deathmatch in AOK though since there are many research
technologies and upgrades which can be tedious. The nice thing about
these games is that you can customize how you like to play them. Most
people criticze them because the only played the standard way. If you
like the theme of Empire Earth, then you will likely find a custom
game that fits your play style.
The Sierra.com servers are not too good. If you are going to meet
friends online, I recommend using an instant messenger program first.
If you are going to play Atomic Modern, be warned that the bombers are
really good. You will need a lot of aa halftraks to move with your
army or they are toast. I am not referring to 5. I mean more like
30. Also, fighters will take down bombers, so you could use the
airports to rally the fighters to where your army will be. You can
hotkey air units fast...like the "F" key is for fighters...just hold
shift and keep hitting F F F F F F F F and you will be adding fighters
to your selection...then control # them, and you have them hotkeyed.
Any game can be frustrating at first if you do not know the keyboard
tricks and shortcuts.
Regards,
javajeff
JH
Thanks for the advices. I'll install the game and give it a fair shot.
-- JH
javajeff
wrote:
>Thanks for the advices. I'll install the game and give it a fair shot.
> -- JH
It is my favorite game. Most importantly, this game is extremely
balanced. I think that is whay I love most about EE and AOK. There
are no game breaking exploits and they have a counter for everything.
Regards,
javajeff
Alex Poger
If you are looking for one with more control with less clicks the try
Total Annihilation.
Other than that I suggest playing turn based games, so you can avoid
the 'victory by keypress' syndrome. Try Dominions, it's superb. It
lacks polish in graphics and interface, plus is very complex. Still
you can download a free demo at www.illwinter.com and check it out for
yoruself.
I think it's great, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
javajeff
Turn based strategy games are click fests...you have to click all over
the place...including an end turn button.
Pythie
it is ;o)
"javajeff" <java...@city-net.com> wrote in
1v1tguohk6gm4icab...@4ax.com...
javajeff
>yes, and life is breathfests, you have to breath continually. How annoying
>it is ;o)
>
I know what you mean. It is so draining to have to breathe everyday.
All that extra energy for gaming is lost....just imagine no hierarchy
of needs.
Regards,
javajeff
full name
>yes, and life is breathfests, you have to breath continually. How annoying
>it is ;o)
How annoying is hyperventalation?