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They won't allow perl!

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Frank Krul

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May 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/17/00
to
Hello,

I need help in coming up with an intelligent response to this:

---------------------------------
I also seriously think we should not install Perl on the Exodus
machines.
1. We do not know the stability of Perl running under NT for high volume

sites.
2. Perl runs out of the IIS process, every call to a perl script runs a
separate instance of Perl. This can be resource
intensive, and if there is something wrong with the script, it can
potentially bring the whole server down.

As an alternative, I suggest they run their Perl scripts off
CENSORED instead. I believe the CENSORED
team should be able to talk to CENSORED to host their Perl scripts
there.

----------------------

I have used perl for years on UNIX, but do not know of it's inherent
weaknesses on NT. Aby help would be appreciated.


Alan J. Flavell

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May 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/17/00
to
On Wed, 17 May 2000, Frank Krul wrote:

> I also seriously think we should not install Perl on the Exodus
> machines.
> 1. We do not know the stability of Perl running under NT for high volume
> sites.

That's good. Perl is very stable under unix, why put Perl at risk
by running it on NT. Logical.

Come to that, why put the web server at risk by running it on NT...
but that's offtopic here and we wouldn't want an OS war, would we? ;-}

[BSOD protection shields raised, f'ups prophylactically set]


brian d foy

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May 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/17/00
to
In article <3922CE48...@acc.com>, Frank Krul <fk...@acc.com> wrote:

>I need help in coming up with an intelligent response to this:
>

>2. Perl runs out of the IIS process, every call to a perl script runs a


>separate instance of Perl. This can be resource
>intensive, and if there is something wrong with the script, it can
>potentially bring the whole server down.

if they are worried about stability, then start by getting rid of IIS
and NT. as with anything else - optimize in the right places :)

--
brian d foy
Perl Mongers <URI:http://www.perl.org>
CGI MetaFAQ
<URI:http://www.smithrenaud.com/public/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>


Tom Phoenix

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May 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/17/00
to
On Wed, 17 May 2000, Frank Krul wrote:

> I need help in coming up with an intelligent response to this:

Upgrade your employer. :-)

--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/


Tad McClellan

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May 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/17/00
to
On Wed, 17 May 2000 09:52:24 -0700, Frank Krul <fk...@acc.com> wrote:

>I need help in coming up with an intelligent response to this:
>

>---------------------------------


>I also seriously think we should not install Perl on the Exodus
>machines.
>1. We do not know the stability of Perl running under NT for high volume
>
>sites.


But they *do* know the stability of NT for high volume sites?

And they are still planning to use NT?

Remarkable. Better brush up your resume...


--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
ta...@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas

Cameron Dorey

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May 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/17/00
to
Frank Krul wrote:
>
> Hello,

>
> I need help in coming up with an intelligent response to this:
>
> ---------------------------------
> I also seriously think we should not install Perl on the Exodus
> machines.
> 1. We do not know the stability of Perl running under NT for high volume
>
> sites.

Well, this one you'll have to get an answer from someone who runs a
"high-volume" site, but IMHO, Perl 5.00503 from ActiveState is very
stable, I have no problems whatsoever on my "low-volume" website. You
should be able to get real data from their website, I would figure.

> 2. Perl runs out of the IIS process, every call to a perl script runs a
> separate instance of Perl. This can be resource
> intensive, and if there is something wrong with the script, it can
> potentially bring the whole server down.

Not so. ActiveState has a product called "PerlEx" (unfortunately, not
free, but really quite cheap for its functionality if you need it) which
does for IIS what mod_perl does for Apache. Or you could "roll your own"
Perl to be compatible with Apache and mod_perl, but that isn't
apparently what you want.

> I have used perl for years on UNIX, but do not know of it's inherent
> weaknesses on NT. Aby help would be appreciated.

AFAIK, there are only two weaknesses of Perl on NT. First, some
functions cannot be implemented: fork (although 5.6 has a Perl
fork-emulation), and signal handling) because of the NT architecture,
and second, NT itself is not as stable as some (all?) *n*x OS's. Note:
Neither of these problems are limited to the use of Perl.

Cameron

--
Cameron Dorey
Associate Professor of Chemistry
University of Central Arkansas
Phone: 501-450-5938
came...@mail.uca.edu

jim babbington

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May 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/17/00
to
> 1. We do not know the stability of Perl running under NT for high volume
>
> sites.

NT will peter out long before Perl will.

>
> 2. Perl runs out of the IIS process, every call to a perl script runs a
> separate instance of Perl. This can be resource
> intensive, and if there is something wrong with the script, it can
> potentially bring the whole server down.
>

This is less of a problem than the FUD spinners will have you think. Even
without the server pluggins (mod_per, perlex), NT does a good job of keeping
highly requested executable in nearby in cache - if your visitors are
hitting links that summon perl.exe alot, the executable will be loaded and
started quickly. But - the pluggins are there and they do help.

If something goes wrong with a script, it can bring any OS down - I've
proven this on many system :-O. The difference here is that these problems
are easier to catch on the more commercial ready OSes (Linux, OS/400,
Solaris).

The best way (IMO) to handle high volume is with lots of good hardware -
fast SCSI drive, lots of memory, and fast cpu(s). This, to some degree, is
doable with an NT machine, but if NT should get soaked, Perl can be ported
over to (Unix|vms|AS400) so your biggest investment (the code) can be
preserved no matter where the trade winds send you. Also, look at load
balancing strategies that allow you to split the WWW load over several
machines.

>
> As an alternative, I suggest they run their Perl scripts off
> CENSORED instead. I believe the CENSORED
> team should be able to talk to CENSORED to host their Perl scripts
> there.
>
> ----------------------
>

> I have used perl for years on UNIX, but do not know of it's inherent
> weaknesses on NT. Aby help would be appreciated.

My biggest problem when running Perl CGIs under NT when I try to contact
another server (SMTP,SQL,NNTP), and the process get's hosed when the web
user bails on the transaction (Hits stop or escape) - this causes the
perl.exe process to go zombie. I had to write a script (in perl) that runs
once an hour to finds these zombies and quietly euthanise them.

I'm currently fighting of the Perl Paranoids now so I know what your going
through - my best weapon is to use Perl to produce results quickly, and then
loaf around at the finish line to gloat as they come stumbling in.

Fight the FUD!!


hal9000

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May 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/18/00
to
I have used Perl for many mission critical applications for my current
employer (a
multinational distributor) and these solutions have proven to be very
reliable and
stable. Some 150MB of Plain text financial reports get processed by these
scripts
every day (the 'old' process would take more than 4 hours to complete while
the Perl
solution is ready in approximately 6 minutes). The Perl solution has been
running without
any disruption for more than 6 months while the 'old' process (and the
server) needed
to be restarted several times every week.
The high stability, flexibility and speed and portability of these processes
have allowed
these scripts to be ported to about 4 other countries where they are also
used on a
daily basis for mission critical applications

I have found out that Perl is in fact a perfect tool for Win32 platforms
(although there
are more stabile platforms to be found ;-)

hal9000

p.s. Have you ever seen the amount of resources that are being used on a
Windoze
system by just dragging a notepad window around for a while?

<<< Small step for *NIX, giant leap for PC's >>>

Frank Krul wrote in message <3922CE48...@acc.com>...
>Hello,


>
>I also seriously think we should not install Perl on the Exodus
>machines.

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