Hellblazer #176
kingalt
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So, what did everybody think?
Here's what I liked: A)Great dialogue. B)A few laughs. C)Constantine at
least being written in character.
Here's what I didnt like. A)Kind of a lame plot - after all, John didnt
learn anything from the sick-bed discussion or the late-night phone call to
the cop that he didnt already know. A bit of padding it seemed. In fact, he
already knew the top floor apartment was the source of the trouble from the
begining. He could've charged right in from the start. The only thing he did
between issues one and two was put on the trenchcoat.
B)The disguise. Why? He never needed one before, and was wanted by
police several times.
C)The infusion of Demon-blood was a continuity glitch. Constantine had
been purged of the Demon blood in an earlier storyline.
D) also the ER sign should have said 'Casualty' and not 'Accident and
Emergency.' This one is for the really picky nitpickers out there (come on,
I know you are out there)
So there it is. The good and the bad.
In any case, light years ahead of what has been served up in the recent
past. Only time will tell. I'm rooting for ya, Mike.
starblood
news:Abuk9.12688$Wk.5...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
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> So, what did everybody think?
It was weak.
There was padding, as you say. I don't think anything fit together well at
all. John meets a kid on the street with a spoon and a needle and suddenly
he knows what's going on upstairs? Bit of a leap. And Angie shows up at
just the right time. It just didn't work for me.
kingalt
"starblood" <moonh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k0Dk9.213$Vi4.2...@monger.newsread.com...
Yes that bit with Angie was incredibly weak - especially when there was a
much better way out. If John had mentioned the building to the cop on the
phone and the cop would've shown up, that would have made a lot more sense.
(And it would have been humorous to have Constantine indebted to that guy.)
>
>
Vinod Chhotu Patel
but, wasn't the first 6 issues of his run, originally written as a 6-issue
'fill-in' to give Azz a break...
and, anyways, he may take a while to get his head around the character, so
we may have to wait a while...
--
"kingalt" <lki...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Abuk9.12688$Wk.5...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
Adrian Brown
<lki...@optonline.net> writes:
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>Yes that bit with Angie was incredibly weak - especially when there was a
>much better way out. If John had mentioned the building to the cop on the
>phone and the cop would've shown up, that would have made a lot more sense.
>(And it would have been humorous to have Constantine indebted to that guy.)
And unlikely for him to arrive from London to Liverpool in such a small space
of time.
Angie's brighter than an Anfield floodlight.
That's why she'd turn up.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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www.ninthart.com NINTH ART - comics writing with class
Adrian Brown
<lki...@optonline.net> writes:
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>A)Kind of a lame plot - after all, John didnt
>learn anything from the sick-bed discussion or the late-night phone call to
>the cop that he didnt already know. A bit of padding it seemed. In fact, he
>already knew the top floor apartment was the source of the trouble from the
>begining. He could've charged right in from the start. The only thing he did
>between issues one and two was put on the trenchcoat.
John wouldn't want to act without checking if there were connections with other
business, which he found out from the phone call. We found out about him from
the sick-bed discussion.
> B)The disguise. Why? He never needed one before, and was wanted by
>police several times.
It's not a disguise, but he's keeping his name to himself (and those who know
him) it helped him spot another connection.
> C)The infusion of Demon-blood was a continuity glitch. Constantine had
>been purged of the Demon blood in an earlier storyline.
And un-purged in #104 according to some writer or other over on the Hellblazer
forum.
> D) also the ER sign should have said 'Casualty' and not 'Accident and
>Emergency.' This one is for the really picky nitpickers out there (come on,
>I know you are out there)
Nope. You're wrong. At least every hospital I've ever worked in said A&E.
Why did you think otherwise ?
Graeme
news:20020926174706...@mb-fm.aol.com...
> In article <Abuk9.12688$Wk.5...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, "kingalt"
> <lki...@optonline.net> writes:
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> > C)The infusion of Demon-blood was a continuity glitch. Constantine
had
> >been purged of the Demon blood in an earlier storyline.
>
> And un-purged in #104 according to some writer or other over on the
Hellblazer
> forum.
Strictly speaking I don't think he was "un-purged" at all. He slept with
Ellie to absorb back some of the evil that he found he needed to survive.
...
You know, that scene made sense at the time, but reading back my last
sentence I can't believe how weak it seems in hindsight.
Graeme
kingalt
"Adrian Brown" <adehe...@aol.communicate> wrote in message
news:20020926174706...@mb-fm.aol.com...
Found out about who?
>
>
> > B)The disguise. Why? He never needed one before, and was wanted by
> >police several times.
>
> It's not a disguise, but he's keeping his name to himself (and those who
know
> him) it helped him spot another connection.
It most certainly is a disguise. What else do you call growing a beard and
then dying your hair and beard brown?
>
> > C)The infusion of Demon-blood was a continuity glitch. Constantine
had
> >been purged of the Demon blood in an earlier storyline.
>
> And un-purged in #104 according to some writer or other over on the
Hellblazer
> forum.
>
Your source is incorrect. It was never "unpurged" and there is no such word
either. So there.
> > D) also the ER sign should have said 'Casualty' and not 'Accident and
> >Emergency.' This one is for the really picky nitpickers out there (come
on,
> >I know you are out there)
>
> Nope. You're wrong. At least every hospital I've ever worked in said A&E.
> Why did you think otherwise ?
>
Every ER that I've worked at in England has a sign that says "Casualty
Dept." and its the same in Australia.
John McMahon
>
> "Adrian Brown" <adehe...@aol.communicate> wrote in message
> news:20020926174706...@mb-fm.aol.com...
> > In article <Abuk9.12688$Wk.5...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, "kingalt"
> > <lki...@optonline.net> writes:
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> > >police several times.
> >
> > It's not a disguise, but he's keeping his name to himself (and those who
> know
> > him) it helped him spot another connection.
>
> It most certainly is a disguise. What else do you call growing a beard and
> then dying your hair and beard brown?
I thought it was made pretty clear that he wants to keep a really low
profile given that most people think he's dead and he'd rather keep it
that way - probably got sick and tired of various beasties haunting the
infamous John Constantine's kitchen or whatnot.
> > > C)The infusion of Demon-blood was a continuity glitch. Constantine
> had
> > >been purged of the Demon blood in an earlier storyline.
> >
> > And un-purged in #104 according to some writer or other over on the
> Hellblazer
> > forum.
> >
>
> Your source is incorrect. It was never "unpurged" and there is no such
word
> either. So there.
The demon blood has been referenced as being present post
Difficult Beginnings, most recently in eithter Ellis' or Azzarellos'
run. It's not a stretch to assume that John got the blood back at
either the end of Difficult Beginnings or possibly even during
Jenkin's final arc on the title (How To Play With Fire).
Yeah, it's a little fast and loose on the continuity front but we're
talking about Hellblazer here, not X-Men.
J.
Adrian Brown
<lki...@optonline.net> writes:
>Found out about who?
>
Sorry, I meant to type "found out about them", ie the connections.
We are shown John's questions and not his thought processes.
But he clearly had his suspicions that Watford and Angie gave him more evidence
towards.
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One thing about giving Angie the D.B. infusion. It was probably done in the
hope of something more than confirming his suspicions. So it's classic JC,
messing up his friends. Even if it was done with more conscience than is
usually shown.
>It most certainly is a disguise. What else do you call growing a beard and
>then dying your hair and beard brown?
Okay, but it's not as big a deal as a "disguise" as you seem to suggest.
It's probably fair to expect he'd not want to use lots of special stuff around
his sister.
But at least two people who'd never met him seem to have known who he was.
I wouldn't have thought he'd dyed his hair until you mentioned it.
>Your source is incorrect. It was never "unpurged" and there is no such word
either. So there.
You are miscorrecting.
Let's read #104 again and then see what we think.
> Nope. You're wrong. At least every hospital I've ever worked in said A&E.
> Why did you think otherwise ?
>
>Every ER that I've worked at in England has a sign that says "Casualty
Dept." and its the same in Australia.
Okay then. Pissing contest.
How many in England ? The Aussie ones don't count.
Adrian Brown
adehe...@aol.communicate (Adrian Brown) writes:
>>Every ER that I've worked at in England has a sign that says "Casualty
>Dept." and its the same in Australia.
>
>Okay then. Pissing contest.
Hmm. that was meant to come over more good-natured fun-pokingly.
Please accept my apologies for any misunderstanding.
Ade
kingalt
"Adrian Brown" <adehe...@aol.communicate> wrote in message
> In article <r1Pk9.15075$x9.3...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, "kingalt"
> <lki...@optonline.net> writes:
>
> >Found out about who?
> >
>
> Sorry, I meant to type "found out about them", ie the connections.
> We are shown John's questions and not his thought processes.
> But he clearly had his suspicions that Watford and Angie gave him more
evidence
>
Well, he didnt learn anything new. At best, Watford confirmed what the ER
doc had just told him just a few pages earlier. At best, Angie confirmed
what he had already suspected from his first visit to the building. It's
called Padding the story" my friend.
>
> >It most certainly is a disguise. What else do you call growing a beard
and
> >then dying your hair and beard brown?
>
> Okay, but it's not as big a deal as a "disguise" as you seem to suggest.
AHA!
> It's probably fair to expect he'd not want to use lots of special stuff
around
> his sister.
> But at least two people who'd never met him seem to have known who he was.
> I wouldn't have thought he'd dyed his hair until you mentioned it.
Well, he always had blond hair before. He even had a blond beard for a while
in the Dleano run when he was runnin' with the hippies.
>
> >Your source is incorrect. It was never "unpurged" and there is no such
word
> either. So there.
>
> You are miscorrecting.
> Let's read #104 again and then see what we think.
OK, I happen to have it right here...Hmm, well, it seems he got something
from Ellie. "replicas of all the nasty bits"...well, okay then. I've gotta
give that one to you. Maybe it was the use of the word "unpurged"
(ARRRRGHHH) that threw me off. lol.
>
> > Nope. You're wrong. At least every hospital I've ever worked in said
A&E.
> > Why did you think otherwise ?
> >
>
> >Every ER that I've worked at in England has a sign that says "Casualty
> Dept." and its the same in Australia.
>
> Okay then. Pissing contest.
> How many in England ? The Aussie ones don't count.
Lets not get involved in the pissing contest. My bladder couldnt take it.
Lol.
Adrian Brown
<lki...@optonline.net> writes:
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>Well, he didnt learn anything new. At best, Watford confirmed what the ER
>doc had just told him just a few pages earlier. At best, Angie confirmed
>what he had already suspected from his first visit to the building. It's
>called Padding the story" my friend.
Although I disagree with you, I can see why you say *he* didn't learn anything,
but *we* did.
1) John is checking his facts a bit more than previously.
2) John trusts Watford.
3) John thinks Angie might have something to tell him, even though he's only
just met her.
That's not padding unless nothing happens with that information.
My friend.
>OK, I happen to have it right here...Hmm, well, it seems he got something
>from Ellie. "replicas of all the nasty bits"...well, okay then. I've gotta
>give that one to you. Maybe it was the use of the word "unpurged"
>(ARRRRGHHH) that threw me off. lol.
That was deliberate on my part.
But I can't take credit for the reference, that credit goes to the writer of
the story.
btw, gratuitously searching "Accident & Emergency" and "Casualty" on
google.co.uk give 3:1 in favour of A&E. And the department in Fazakerly
Hospital *is* called A&E. Remarkable progresses in medicine, I'd say.
No big deal, but as some editor changed the spelling of "tire" I think it's
only right that we congratulate them on medical accuracy.
Aintree was wrong though ;-)
Ade
kingalt
"Adrian Brown" <adehe...@aol.communicate> wrote in message
> In article <LA0l9.25299$x9.6...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, "kingalt"
> <lki...@optonline.net> writes:
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> >Well, he didnt learn anything new. At best, Watford confirmed what the ER
> >doc had just told him just a few pages earlier. At best, Angie confirmed
> >what he had already suspected from his first visit to the building. It's
> >called Padding the story" my friend.
>
> Although I disagree with you, I can see why you say *he* didn't learn
anything,
>
> but *we* did.
No, we didnt. The doctor already told us the information. We really have no
reason to doubt the kindly Doctor's report, do we?
>
> 1) John is checking his facts a bit more than previously.
> 2) John trusts Watford.
> 3) John thinks Angie might have something to tell him, even though he's
only
> just met her.
>
> That's not padding unless nothing happens with that information.
> My friend.
Nothing did happen with it. He did not use the information to devise any
trap. He just stormed empty-handedly up to the apartment, which he could've
done at any time. If he didnt have the precious information, what do you
think his next move would've been? Maybe, storm empty-handedly up to the
apartment or something?
>
> btw, gratuitously searching "Accident & Emergency" and "Casualty" on
> google.co.uk give 3:1 in favour of A&E. And the department in Fazakerly
> Hospital *is* called A&E. Remarkable progresses in medicine, I'd say.
OK, you can piss pretty far. Fine. Hey, wait a minute , I have to adjust my
truss....
(I hope you know, I think you do, that these comments are all in fun.)
Jim Connick
"Adrian Brown" wrote in message
: >Every ER that I've worked at in England has a sign that says "Casualty
: Dept." and its the same in Australia.
:
: Okay then. Pissing contest.
: How many in England ? The Aussie ones don't count.
The one I'm just back from had a blooming big "Accident & Emergency" sign,
and was in Scotland, if that helps prove or disprove anyone.
Adrian Brown
<j...@theaww.com> writes:
>The one I'm just back from had a blooming big "Accident & Emergency" sign,
>and was in Scotland, if that helps prove or disprove anyone.
As long as it helped with your accident or your emergency, it doesn't really
matter.
:-)
Ade
Adrian Brown
<lki...@optonline.net> writes:
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>> >Well, he didnt learn anything new. At best, Watford confirmed what the ER
>> >doc had just told him just a few pages earlier. At best, Angie confirmed
>> >what he had already suspected from his first visit to the building. It's
>> >called Padding the story" my friend.
>>
>> Although I disagree with you, I can see why you say *he* didn't learn
>anything,
>>
>> but *we* did.
>
>No, we didnt. The doctor already told us the information. We really have no
>reason to doubt the kindly Doctor's report, do we?
>
You misunderstand. We learnt the three things I list below.
Theyare important in the ongoing plot.
>>
>> 1) John is checking his facts a bit more than previously.
>> 2) John trusts Watford.
>> 3) John thinks Angie might have something to tell him, even though he's
>only
>> just met her.
>>
>> That's not padding unless nothing happens with that information.
>> My friend.
>
>Nothing did happen with it.
Yet.
>He did not use the information to devise any
>trap. He just stormed empty-handedly up to the apartment, which he could've
>done at any time. If he didnt have the precious information, what do you
>think his next move would've been? Maybe, storm empty-handedly up to the
>apartment or something?
>
I think he might well have arranged something with Angie, but if we'd known
that, the whole story might have been changed. But this is not taking you
anywhere, so I'll let it lie.
>(I hope you know, I think you do, that these comments are all in fun.)
God, I hope so.
I was actually being inspired by an old thread on the DC newsgroup about how
crap the gun technology was in a JSA time travel story. I do so like to play
with "factual error" threads every now and then.
Ade
Paul O'Brien
<adehe...@aol.communicate> writes
>
>Nope. You're wrong. At least every hospital I've ever worked in said
>A&E. Why did you think otherwise ?
Well, the BBC can't have named "Casualty" for no reason, surely?
--
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
NTL - even worse than I'd heard.
Will
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tnohhUOT...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
| In message <20020926174706...@mb-fm.aol.com>, Adrian Brown
| <adehe...@aol.communicate> writes
| >
| >Nope. You're wrong. At least every hospital I've ever worked in said
| >A&E. Why did you think otherwise ?
|
| Well, the BBC can't have named "Casualty" for no reason, surely?
All A&E units *used* to be called "Casualty" until about 10 years
ago.....when a mysterious drift to "A&E" took place. This is from a
hospital administrator I spoke to last week, so depending on your
thoughts about hospital administrators, you can take that as gospel or
not..... ;-p
Anyway. Sorry I haven't commented on HB until now......been in hospital
with a pulmonary embolism.....hence my chat with medical folk.....my
London visit may be postponed......sadly the Sparks gig wont be.....but
I got a get well card from Richard O'Brien, so I'm cheered :-)
Anyway (2). HB.....I kind of see what's happening here. Carey's first
2 episodes *seem* to be akin to the "pre-credit sequence" before show's
like Star Trek, etc.... A minor event leading on to a larger story. I
can dig that. JC has gleaned enough information to make the
ongoing/forthcoming arc seem interesting, at least.......but.....I have
little fight in me at the mo, so I'm saying nothing too radical this
time :-)
Love Will.....xx
(Bed rest sucks!)
kingalt
"Will" <skell...@spamclara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:10332320...@despina.uk.clara.net...
Time will tell.
Feel better, Will.
Adrian Brown
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Well, the BBC can't have named "Casualty" for no reason, surely?
That sir, is a red herring, for we are not debating if Casualty was wrong, but
if Accident and Emergency was right. Can you imagine the BBC naming a show
Accident and Emergency ? We'd have Judy Finnegan asking "Which one's Emma Gency
?" Is that what you want ?
Adrian Brown
<skell...@spamclara.co.uk> writes:
>Anyway. Sorry I haven't commented on HB until now......been in hospital
>with a pulmonary embolism.....hence my chat with medical folk.....my
>London visit may be postponed......sadly the Sparks gig wont be.....but
>I got a get well card from Richard O'Brien, so I'm cheered :-)
Damn !
Sorry to hear that, Will.
Take it easy.
This town *is* big enough, by the way.
Ade
Paul O'Brien
<adehe...@aol.communicate> writes
>
>That sir, is a red herring, for we are not debating if Casualty was
>wrong, but if Accident and Emergency was right.
Ah. Isn't there an ITV show called "A&E"?
I wouldn't know, you see, as I don't sully myself to watch ITV. Except
for Popstars: The Rivals.
Jeremy Henderson
<skell...@spamclara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:tnohhUOT...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
>| In message <20020926174706...@mb-fm.aol.com>, Adrian Brown
>| <adehe...@aol.communicate> writes
>| >
>| >Nope. You're wrong. At least every hospital I've ever worked in said
>| >A&E. Why did you think otherwise ?
>|
>| Well, the BBC can't have named "Casualty" for no reason, surely?
>
>All A&E units *used* to be called "Casualty" until about 10 years
>ago.....when a mysterious drift to "A&E" took place. This is from a
>hospital administrator I spoke to last week, so depending on your
>thoughts about hospital administrators, you can take that as gospel or
>not..... ;-p
Maybe they decided it seemed too grim. A casualty can also mean a
death. Not exactly the tone you want to set for people coming in for
medical attention.
>Anyway. Sorry I haven't commented on HB until now......been in hospital
>with a pulmonary embolism.....hence my chat with medical folk.....my
>London visit may be postponed......sadly the Sparks gig wont be.....but
>I got a get well card from Richard O'Brien, so I'm cheered :-)
Sorry to hear that, but if the medical folk are telling you to take it
easy. take it easy. Just use it as an excuse to read more comics.
>Anyway (2). HB.....I kind of see what's happening here. Carey's first
>2 episodes *seem* to be akin to the "pre-credit sequence" before show's
>like Star Trek, etc.... A minor event leading on to a larger story. I
>can dig that. JC has gleaned enough information to make the
>ongoing/forthcoming arc seem interesting, at least.......but.....I have
>little fight in me at the mo, so I'm saying nothing too radical this
>time :-)
I rather got the same impression. There wasn't a whole lot here, and
the plot seemed mainly an excuse to get John back to the UK, but there
were a couple seeds planted, and I'm stil intrigued about just where
Carey's taking the character. Hopefully to a razor to shave that damn
beard, first... :)
Eoghann Irving
You wrote:
> In article <tnohhUOT...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul
O'Brien
> <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> >Well, the BBC can't have named "Casualty" for no reason,
surely?
>
> That sir, is a red herring, for we are not debating if Casualty
was wrong, but
> if Accident and Emergency was right.
And besides, I think you'll find that Casualty is set in Holby
A&E. At least thats my memoryof how they referred to it.
Eoghann Irving
--
Solar Flare - Everything Fantasy & Science Fiction
News, Reviews and Commentary
http://www.sflare.com
Win a $25 Amazon.com Gift Certificate
Adrian Brown
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Except
>for Popstars: The Rivals.
oh dear.
Paul O'Brien
<adehe...@aol.communicate> writes
>
>>Except
>>for Popstars: The Rivals.
>
>oh dear.
I'm trying to train myself to think less. Isn't Davina McCall great?
She's just like the nation's mum.
Adrian Brown
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> writes:
>I'm trying to train myself to think less. Isn't Davina McCall great?
>She's just like the nation's mum.
That must be a generation thing, she's not my Mum.
Actually we were talking about Davina while watching Pop Idol Extra earlier
today ...
and to give it a Hellblazer 176 reference ...
don't you think she leeches on the experiences and emotions of the
"contestants" rather like an old lady in Liverpool with jars of prozzie flesh
?
Paul O'Brien
<adehe...@aol.communicate> writes
>don't you think she leeches on the experiences and emotions of the
>"contestants" rather like an old lady in Liverpool with jars of
>prozzie flesh
Well, of course she does. She's a reality TV show host.
What's insidious about her style of presentation, both on Popstars and
Big Brother, is the way she distances herself from the production crew
and presents herself as a member of the audience. She's very good at
that.
Graeme
news:10332320...@despina.uk.clara.net...
> Anyway (2). HB.....I kind of see what's happening here. Carey's first
> 2 episodes *seem* to be akin to the "pre-credit sequence" before show's
> like Star Trek, etc.... A minor event leading on to a larger story. I
> can dig that. JC has gleaned enough information to make the
> ongoing/forthcoming arc seem interesting, at least.......but.....I have
> little fight in me at the mo, so I'm saying nothing too radical this
> time :-)
Unless I'm mis-remembering Ellis's run entirely, from the solicitations
information in Previews it looks like Carey is going to be picking up some
of the threads from that run that have had time to fester while Cosntantine
was away in America.
Graeme
--
I will find humour in my everyday life by looking
for people I can laugh at.
Chris
>> It's probably fair to expect he'd not want to use lots of special stuff
>around
>> his sister.
>> But at least two people who'd never met him seem to have known who he was.
>> I wouldn't have thought he'd dyed his hair until you mentioned it.
>Well, he always had blond hair before. He even had a blond beard for a while
>in the Dleano run when he was runnin' with the hippies.
I just attributed the hair to the apparent editorial rule that the
comic only be coloured in three shades of poo, regardless of location,
mood or time. It's not so much that John's hair is brown as that
EVERYTHING is brown.
kingalt
"Chris" <nospam...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3d98...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Well, there you go. That's the difference between you and I. I am a very
litteral person, and you tend to be more artistic. :}