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Mozilla + stalinism + maoism

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Jamie Frater

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Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
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Hi all, I was just reading the flyer for the mozilla party and suddenly
realised that every part of the mozilla party flyer is identical to
communist paraphenalia.

The things I noticed are:

1: Big red star
2: people wearing what looks like wokers cloth caps and hard hats
3: arms raised in victory
4: smoke (near the top) from factories maybe?

Is this accidental or is it intended as a stylistic approach to the mozilla
graphics?

Also, the main page mozilla logo has factories in it, which seems to tie in
:)

Jamie.

Jerry Baker

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Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
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Damn, people are starting to find out that Mozilla is really a project
that was organized by Cuba and China to take over the United States.


--
Jerry Baker

PGP Mail Preferred
Key: http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x09DE91C6

Stephen Donner

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Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
to Jamie Frater, mozilla...@mozilla.org
Do you know what Open Source is, bud? :-)

Yeah, it's intentional, see Ben Goodger's page for some cool banners..

Daniel Veditz

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Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
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It is apparently hip. I'm too old to get it.

Why anyone would want to appropriate the symbols of a /failed/ revolution
is beyond me. Although if Mozilla lasts 70 years like the USSR that'd be a
pretty good run for a piece of software.

-Dan Veditz

Irve

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Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
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Daniel Veditz wrote:

> Why anyone would want to appropriate the symbols of a /failed/ revolution
> is beyond me. Although if Mozilla lasts 70 years like the USSR that'd be a
> pretty good run for a piece of software.

take it like this: the whole idea of _communism_ is not bad at all. but
people have been unable to imlpement it correcly i.e. they put the
society first and humans next.

mozilla is purely voluntary effort and I must admit that open source has
a lot in commmon with the _idea_ of USSR. Russia really made a really
perverse society out of it though.
but Mozilla looks fine to me so far :)

The programmers of the world, unite!

> Jamie Frater wrote:
> > 1: Big red star
> > 2: people wearing what looks like wokers cloth caps and hard hats
> > 3: arms raised in victory
> > 4: smoke (near the top) from factories maybe?
> > Is this accidental or is it intended as a stylistic approach to the mozilla
> > graphics?
> >
> > Also, the main page mozilla logo has factories in it, which seems to tie in
> > :)

--
Irve | http://www.hot.ee/irve
Mostly harmless

Jerry Baker

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Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
to
Daniel Veditz wrote:
>
> It is apparently hip. I'm too old to get it.
>
> Why anyone would want to appropriate the symbols of a /failed/ revolution
> is beyond me. Although if Mozilla lasts 70 years like the USSR that'd be a
> pretty good run for a piece of software.
>
> -Dan Veditz

Enough people have mentioned the similarity that I am going to have to
make the throbber in my skin a rotating hammer and sickle. I saw it
once, and I think it would be good for a laugh.

As a side note (and way off topic): The revolution failed, but so did
Betamax, Tuckers and DAT.

Kerry Ginn

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Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
to
Jamie Frater wrote:
>
> Hi all, I was just reading the flyer for the mozilla party and suddenly
> realised that every part of the mozilla party flyer is identical to
> communist paraphenalia.
>
> The things I noticed are:
>
> 1: Big red star
> 2: people wearing what looks like wokers cloth caps and hard hats
> 3: arms raised in victory
> 4: smoke (near the top) from factories maybe?
>
> Is this accidental or is it intended as a stylistic approach to the mozilla
> graphics?
>
> Also, the main page mozilla logo has factories in it, which seems to tie in
> :)

The flyer is recycled from last year (when mozilla.org experienced an
abrupt leadership change). Its style suggests a cross between a video
tape box for Jurassic Park and a Chineese version of Socialist Realism
poster art. Since the Red Guard would very likely have banished the
party's band (and probably many of the party goers) to a "re-education
camp", people would normally not take such tie-ins with the flyer art
seriously at all.

This thread has the appearance of being recycled, too. I will point out
as I did last year that the "Lone Star" is also the symbol of the State
of Texas and of a beer brewed therein. .... And Texans often raise their
arms in victory, for better or worse.

Frank Hecker

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Mar 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/15/00
to
Daniel Veditz wrote:
> Why anyone would want to appropriate the symbols of a /failed/ revolution
> is beyond me.

Well, it was a failed (and ultimately murderous) revolution, but it did
inspire some great art, and Soviet artists in the 1920s had a lot of
influence over graphic design in the 20th century. 1920s political
posters in the constructivist style were background and inspiration for
the mozilla.org graphics, and I think they've worked really well as a
key element in an overall Mozilla "branding strategy". (Lord knows JWZ
would hate to hear me call it that :-).

This was mentioned a while back on n.p.m.ui, but I thought people might
be interested who missed it: The original mozilla.org graphics were done
by Shepard Fairey; you can see some of his other work at the URLs below:

http://www.obeygiant.com/posters/
http://www.blkmrkt.com/gallery/
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/9933/features-parrish.shtml
http://www.citysearch.signonsandiego.com/E/E/SANCA/0000/50/55/cs1.html

(If we ever get tired of using Mozilla, perhaps we could have "Ming the
Merciless" be our new mascot. He might be especially useful during those
final days spent getting the tree ready for a milestone...)

For anyone who's interested in the original artistic influences behind
Fairey's mozilla.org designs, here are some sample Russian posters from
the 1920s, both nonpolitical and political:

http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/stenbergbrothers/stenbergbrosworks.html
http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/lirsk/bildseit/rodche.htm
http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/lirsk/bildseit/unbeka4.htm
http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/lirsk/bildseit/kulagin.htm
http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/lirsk/bildseit/stenbg2.htm
http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/lirsk/bildseit/lavin.htm

Whatever you might think of it in terms of ideology, certainly as art
it's much better than the Soviet realism crap that got produced later:

http://www.stanford.edu/~gfreidin/courses/147/propart/propart.htm

(Which reminds me, if you want to complain about communist imagery
please go complain about the stuff at the Hungry Programmer's site:

http://www.hungry.org/

There's nothing worse than the kitsch that passed for art in the
People's Republic of China.)

Also, if you object to Soviet or Chinese posters on political grounds,
here are some examples of "capitalist propaganda" posters being produced
in the U.S. during the same (1920s) timeframe:

http://www.hellerposters.com/1923.htm

(and other years). IMO these are decidedly artistically inferior to the
better Soviet 1920s posters.

However despite their lesser artistic quality, we could certainly
consider using these posters as the basis for a mozilla.org
"rebranding", as many of the messages of these posters are relevant to
the Mozilla project: "There's Only One Way to Become Manager" (1923),
"Don't Waste My Time (Idle Talk Earns Nothing)" (1924), "Jumpy? (Size It
Up -- and Keep Cool)" (1929), "Do You Explode? (Handle Your Temper with
Care)" (1929), and my very personal favorite, "Nobody Fixed It (Let's
Plug the Leaks!)":

http://www.hellerposters.com/1926.htm

And now that I'm finally back on topic, I think it's time to call a halt
to today's "art moment". Till later!

Frank
--
Frank Hecker work: http://www.collab.net/
fr...@collab.net home: http://www.hecker.org/


Kevin L. Burns

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Mar 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/15/00
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Frank Hecker wrote:
> [snip]

> (If we ever get tired of using Mozilla, perhaps we could have "Ming the
> Merciless" be our new mascot. He might be especially useful during those
> final days spent getting the tree ready for a milestone...)
> [snip]

What's wrong with supporting characters?

Jerry Baker

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Mar 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/15/00
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Fred Roeber wrote:
>
> (I didn't tell them how right they were.)

I always wonder how California gets labeled this way. This is the state
that produced Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, has Orange County (the most
conservative county in the nation), has had Republican governors for
like 16 of the last 18 years, passes "No bilingual education"
proposition, passes "No public benefits to illegal immigrants"
proposition, the birthplace of the taxpayer revolt (stingy rich people),
defeats almost every comprehensive environmental proposition ever put on
the ballot, etc. etc.

Robert O'Callahan

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Mar 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/15/00
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Jerry Baker wrote:
> I always wonder how California gets labeled this way. This is the state
> that produced Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, has Orange County (the most
> conservative county in the nation), has had Republican governors for
> like 16 of the last 18 years, passes "No bilingual education"
> proposition, passes "No public benefits to illegal immigrants"
> proposition, the birthplace of the taxpayer revolt (stingy rich
> people), defeats almost every comprehensive environmental proposition
> ever put on the ballot, etc. etc.

It's a convenient fiction that helps the rich and comfortable to sleep a
little better. But you already knew that.

Rob
--
[Robert O'Callahan http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~roc 6th year CMU CS PhD student
"I have seen the burden God has laid on men. He has made everything
beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet
they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end."
--- Ecclesiastes 3:10-11]

Weaselboy

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Mar 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/17/00
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Jerry Brown, Diane Fineswine, San Francisco...

California is just plain schizoid.
I say let's bust the San Andreas loose right now!


Jerry Baker

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Mar 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/17/00
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Yes! I do like the earthquakes. People in other states ask me how I can
live with the riots, fires, earthquakes, mudslides, floods and other
stuff in California. I always ask them how they can live without them.
;-)

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