Bluemoon -- HCI Master Plan
Bill Vojak
: This was posted on Bluemoon by Dennis Carney, where he got it I don't know.
: --
: Larry Cipriani, l.v.ci...@att.com or attmail!lcipriani
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------
: I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this document. This is the third
: generation cross post. The original message contains a claim that this
: document came from HCI headquarters, and the originals were marked
: "confidential". They were allegedly released by a sympathetic staffer...
: *****Begin Original Post*****
Gee. . . I found the word Ban or ban used 33 TIMES in this document!
They don't want gun control. . . They want GUN BANS! Wake Up America!!!
Bill Vojak
l...@cbvox1.att.com
--
Larry Cipriani, l.v.ci...@att.com or attmail!lcipriani
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this document. This is the third
generation cross post. The original message contains a claim that this
document came from HCI headquarters, and the originals were marked
"confidential". They were allegedly released by a sympathetic staffer...
*****Begin Original Post*****
Well, here it is, and I wasn't allowed to have the cover page. This is
an internal agenda for HCI, and was never meant to be seen by the
public. (the originals are marked confidential)
P.S. Fienstien is now asking for all edged weapons to be banned, unless
they have a gardening or kitchen utility purpose! Not to mention a ban
of over 130 named firearms. She stated this in a conference thursday or
friday.
*****Begin Text******
...and remember to praise President Clinton and Attorney General Janet
Reno for their political courage for standing up to the old boy network
of the Gun Lobby. Special praise to Senator Diane Fienstien was
mentioned for her courage in standing up to the ever diminishing number
of gun crazy extremists who are actually pushing to make our society a
killing field.
WHAT IS PENDING NOW AND CAN BE LAW IN 1994
* Ban of all clips holding over 6 bullets.
* Ban on all semiautos which can fire more than 6 bullets without
reloading.
* Ban of possession of parts to convert arms into military
configuration.
* Ban on all pump shotguns capable of being converted to more than
5 shots without reloading.
* Banning of all machine guns, destructive devices, short shotguns/
rifles, assault weapons, Saturday Night Specials and Non-Sporting
Ammunition.
* Arsenal Licensing (for possession of multiple guns and large
amounts of ammunition).
* Elimination of the Department of Civil Marksmanship, long
considered a sacred cow and a dinosaur from the Cold War years
(Thank you Mr. Clinton!!!).
* Ban on possession of a firearm within a home located within 1000
feet of a schoolyard.
* Ban on all realistic replicas/toy guns or non-firearms capable of
being rendered realistic.
* The right of victims of gun violence to sue manufacturers and
dealers to be affirmed and perhaps, aided with money from
government programs.
* Taxes on ammo, Dealers licenses & guns to offset the medical costs
to society.
and...
* the eventual ban of all semi-automatics (regardless of when made or
caliber).
WHAT WAS ONLY A DREAM TEN YEARS AGO CAN BE REALITY AS EARLY AS THIS
YEAR!!!
After the meeting, the following ideas were the result of a
brainstorming session to guide the focus of gun control initiatives
over the next five years. These may not be politically feasible
ideas for 1994, but we are confident that with continued pressure we
can achieve most if not all of these goals within the next five
years. The following list is condensed from our meeting in which
we considered the best ideas for public safety expansion. The time
is right for action.
FIVE YEAR PLAN:
LICENSES:
1 National Licensing of all Handgun purchase
This is at the top of our list, however, the political climate may
be right to initiate this step immediately. Please refer to our
memo outlining our ideas on how this should be executed.
2 License for Rifle and Shotguns
We should take our cues from Great Britian. Strict licensing
should be mandatory for all firearms, whether handguns or not.
3 State Licenses for ownership of firearms
We want to take a workable idea from Great Britian, whereas, we
should require the states to issue strict licenses for possession
and require the licenses to be signed by at least three public
officials - i.e. the police chief, the city attorney and the mayor,
for example, to eliminate ownership by dangerous individuals. It
is reasonable to require that all individuals must prove to the
signers that they require a firearm. This should be attached to
any legislation required purchasers to show a need for a firearm.
4 Reduction of the number of guns to require an Arsenal license
Right now the proposed Arsenal licenses which Senator Fienstien
should be pushing for, requires an "Arsenal License" for those
people who feel they need more than 20 guns and 1000 rounds of
ammunition. We feel that numer is too generous, due to the fact
that any number of guns constitutes a grave threat to the safety
of the community, we suggest strongly that this license limit
be reduced to possession greater than 5 guns and 250 rounds of
ammuntion.
5 Arsenal License Fees
It is not unreasonable to require a yearly fee for an Arsenal
license to be at least $300.00, with a cap of $1000.00. The money
collected can be used to defray the immense medical costs directly
attributed to these deadly weapons.
6 Limits on Arsenal Licensing
No Arsenal Licensing to be permitted in counties with populations
of more than 200,000.
7 Requirement of Federally Approved Storage Safes for all guns
We should follow Great Britian's lead on this. All licensed gun
owners should be required to have a storage safe which meets
minimum federally mandated requirements. This step would reduce
the tragic accidents which claim the lives of tens of thousands
of children a year and make it more difficult for burglars to
steal the guns.
8 Inspection License
Another good revenue source would be mandatory inspection
licensing of all safes. Each safe would be registered with a
specific serial number and the serial numbers and types of weapons
stored should be on file with federal and state authorities.
Since unannounced inspectors can insure that all declared weapons
are being properly stored, all safe licenses should have an
additional yearly fee to offset the cost of these spot inspections.
Public Safety Regulations:
9 Ban on Manufacturing in counties with a population of more than
200,000.
Guns are being built all the time and the number of licensed
manufacturers are too great to justify the threat to public safety.
This is a small step to reduce the number of these shops where
anything, even machine guns, are being built every day.
10 Banning all military style firearms
The Pending National ban on all Assault Weapons, based on a point
system can be expanded to eventually cover any firearm with a
remotely military appearance. We feel that this aggressive
appearance appeals to the type of dangerous individuals who are a
definite threat to public safety. We hope that this point system
can eventually be expanded to high powered air guns and "paint
ball" weapons, which can inflict great damage, and with a little
effort can be converted to real guns.
11 Banning of any Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in
a Machine Gun.
Periodicals such as "The Shotgun News" particularly cater to
individuals which wish to build illegal machine guns. If Senator
Feinstein's courageous section of the crime bill is successful
in banning all machine guns, except for police and military, then
there would be no legitimate need for Machine Gun parts except to
build illegal weapons.
12 Banning the carrying a firearm anywhere but home or target range
or in transit from one to the other.
We should institute a federal mandate to the states to strictly
regulate the carrying of a firearm.
13 Banning replacement parts (mfg, sale, possession, transfer,
installation) except barrel, trigger group.
Thousands of people are building illegal weapons every day. We
can put a dent in this by banning parts and parts kits, except
whose items like the barrel and trigger group, which are most
likely to wear out due to use.
14 Elimination of the Curio Relic list
A gun is a gun. Even an old gun can kill people. This is a
loop hole in the federal law which has allowed thousands of
dangerous weapons to be distributed unchecked. This regulation,
if enacted, would automatically eliminate the need for a Curio or
Relic collector's license. All handguns, rifles and shotguns would
fall into the same category as their modern counterparts.
15 Control of Ammuntion belonging to Certain Surplus Firearms
Senator Moynihan has already proposed a tax or ban on .22 LR, 32
ACP, and 9mm ammo, however, it has been pointed out to us that there
is an extreme proliferation of high powered surplus rifles (i.e.
the Mosin-Nagant series and Enfield series) in which the wholesale
prices are as low as $45-$75. We suggest that to control the
proliferation of violence associated with the large numbers of these
types of weapons entering this country that we ban the importation
of their ammunition, 7.62x54R and .303 R surplus ammuntion.
16 Eventual Ban of Handgun Possession
This may be closer to reality than many of us think. Handguns are
becoming increasingly unpopular and we think that within five years
we can enact a total ban on possession at the federal level.
17 Banning of Any ammo that fits military guns (post 1945)
With the proliferation of high powered weapons, including semi-
automatics and automatics from World War II, we suggest following
the lead of Mexico, by prohibiting the sale, manufacture, possesion
or transfer of any caliber fitting a military firearm in service
with a recognized military force after 1945.
Ammunition and Explosives:
18 Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which
would constitute more than the equivilant of 100 rounds of
ammunition.
With the bombing the World Trade Center, it has been made clear
that we must reinforce the above proposed regulation with this
additional notation. It is arguable that none has any real need to
have so much dangerous material on hand.
19 Ban on the possession of explosive powders of more than 1 kilogram
at any one time.
Gun nuts are notorious for circumventing the intent of the law, so
we can reinforce the above proposed regulation with this additional
notation. This additional language can be useful in preventing
"bomb-maker" and other dangerous individuals.
20 Banning of High Powered Ammo or Wounding ammo
In addition to the banning of military calibers, there is a
plethora of dangerous rounds which are too high powered for sporting
use. This includes the highest calibers of pistol and rifle
ammunition (of note are the monster calibers for rifles and pistols,
like the .50 caliber Desert Eagle Bullet). We should not forget
the lessons learned with the insidious Black Talon Ammo. Hollow
points, Glaser killing rounds and other types of ammunition designed
specifically for maiming should be prohibited.
21 A National License for Ammuntion
This is an idea whose time has come. We should look at a Federal
License for purchasing of ammunition of all kinds. A special form
should be forwarded to a new federal office to track those who are
purchasing too much ammunition. Remember that a gun is useless
without ammunition.
22 Banning or strict licensing of all re-loading components
Ammunition regulation laws can be regularly bypassed by home loaders,
creating an underground cottage industry of ammo manufacture.
Possession or purchase of re-loading equipment and machines should
be restricted and those who wish to use specially loaded ammunition
can go to a federally licensed 're-loader'.
23 National Registration of ammunition or ammo buyers
Fees colledted from the national licenses should go towards a
nationwide database of ammo buyers, with a possible background check
to eliminate the purchase of dangerous ammo by felons or mental
patients.
24 Requirement of special storage safe for ammunition and licensing
Like the storage safe for guns, there should be a national
requirement for special safes to store ammo. These safes should
be tamper proof and fireproof and be registered themselves so that
on the spot inspections can be held. Again, the costs for these
inspections can be absorbed by the license fees.
GUN RANGES:
25 Restricting Gun Ranges to counties with populations less than 200,000
The obvious threat to public safety of shooting ranges and stray
bullets has been lost on many states and counties. We can initiate
a federal mandate or incentives to get states to prohibit any kind of
shooting range within a county with a population of more than
200,000.
26 Special Licensing of ranges
Those ranges which conform to the previous requirement should get
special licensing above and beyond that which is required now.
Additional each existing or new shooting range must get in writing
the permission of all property owners within a radius of seven miles.
27 Special Range Tax to visitors
Additional revenue can be a surtax on ranges, requiring the
collection of a minimum of $85.00 per visit per person. This can
be in addition to required membership fees, upon which the state
and local governments get a sizeable portion, to help defray the
immense cost of gun violence.
28 Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges
It has been suggested in the past that felons can aquire pistols
and other automatic weapons without a background check by renting
a gun on a target range. Derranged individuals are basically
being given a license to 'practice hunting humans' at these so
called 'sporting ranges'. We think that a national waiting period
for gun rentals is yet another idea whose time has come.
Activities which promote Gun Violence
29 Banning Gun Shows
Illegal transfers and the sales of assault weapons and submachine
guns is a common event at these so called gun shows. A huge dent
can be made in the illegal trafficking of weapons by banning these
shows altogether.
30 Banning of military reenactments
The questionable "historical" value of these events has escaped
public scrutiny for too long. Many of these so called historical
events are mere excuses for gun nuts to blast the countryside with
automatic weapons. What is to keep them from loading live bullets
and having those stray bullets kill innocent children? What lives
in the future will be lost due to this paramilitary training going
on right under our noses? We propose the prohibition of
Survivalist/paramilitary, World War I and World War II and Civil
War Re-enactments on federal land, and hope to encourage the states
to prohibit them from state and county lands as well.
31 Making unlawful the assembly of more than 4 armed individuals who
are not peace officers or military
Since most hunting parties consist of four, we recognize the need
to eliminate the currently legal assembly of shooters for
paramilitary training on private lands. This is just one good
suggestion for our elimination of the "gun culture" from the
mainstream.
32 Begin to curb hunting on all public lands.
Blood sports are an anathoma to a civilized society, however, it has
been a political reality that the hunters and their ilk have too
strong of a strangle hold on Congress. We feel that the impending
defeat of high tech assault "killing machines" will open the door
to restrictions. With the diminishing number of hunters, we feel
that perhaps in five years we can open up much more of our country
to campers and hikers, and eliminate the threat to families out
camping, by looking at much more restrictions as to what parcels
of land will allow hunting. This will not infringe on sportsmen's
right to hunt on private land.
33 Making Gun Owners Records and Photos matter of public record
We would have to assemble a legal team, in order to investigate the
balance of the right to privacy and the right to safeguard public.
We fully endorse the photographing and fingerprinting of all gun
owners, however, these records are usually relegated to law
enforcement only. We think that it would be a good idea to make
these records public, so that the communities can have the knowledge
of who poses a danger to their community before disaster strikes.
We realize that this proposal would probably be controversial, thus
a long public affairs campaign would have to be initiated in order
to build public support and ease the transition of such an idea.
We feel that this idea has merit, and can be justified via the past
publication of the names of water wasters during the drought,
customers for prostitution, and deadbeat parents who are delinquent
on child support.
34 Random Police Checks for Weapons (like sobriety checkpoints)
This idea was floated before in California in 1989, where some
thought it would be a great deterrent to gang related crimes for
police to do sweeps for gang weapons. Right now this idea may have
some resistance, however, the political climate can become right
to initiate these random vehicle stop and checks at all levels
and in all types of neighborhoods. If we continue to mainstream
the pressure we can make this a reality.
THE NEXT FIFTEEN YEARS:
With all that is going on, who knows what is possible in the next
few years? With murders in the streets, and the public fed up,
and the once mighty thugs of the Gun Lobby whimpering in impotence
we have an opportunity to change the face of America for the better!
Previously we thought that it would take at least a century to
eliminate dangerous weapons and guns from the public hands, but now
with allies in the White House and Congress, we can accelerate this
trend, and make the barbaric NRA extinct!!! Here are some ideas to
consider for the long term:
Banning of military acoutrements
Essential to the Neanderthal gun culture are the typical military
clothing, camouflage, pouches, and gear, boots and other combat
gear. They euphemistically refer to this as 'militaria'.
Elimination of the future sale of these items will cripple the
culture of violence well into the 21st century.
Stricter guidelines for violence in television and the movies
We should look at the possibility of victims of violence by copying
an act on television and the movie or video screen, suing the makers
of such shows for compensation to their suffering. If the industry
cannot regulate itself, we may have to eventually look at an
independent branch of government, to determine which scenes cause
more harm than good to the public and regulate the numbers of violent
acts portayed.
The total Elimination of arms from Society
We cannot survive into the 21st century unless we remember the need
to expand our wave to new thinking to the total disarmament of
America. With much of the public disarmed we can become more like
Great Britain, where we can also eliminate the need for much of our
police to be armed. This would take a long time, however, a
concerted public relations campaign can pressure local law
enforcement to give up their arms, when the time comes. Weapons,
would be still available to special units like SWAT or the military.
Control of Dangerous literature (Bomb making, machinegun conversions,
etc...)
Too much irresponsible material is purportedly covered by the 1st
Amendment, however, the time will come when our nation has to agree
that some literature does not belong in a safe society, like
instruction manuals on how to kill, or how to make homemade
explosives, or nuclear bombs. We must realize that there can be
such as thing as too much freedom where such literature poses a
serious threat to the public safety.
1994 sounds the death knell for the bully tactics of the NRA and
the culture of violence in America!!
We are pressing on all fronts and much of this can become reality
sooner than we expect. With the loss of power and clout of the NRA
and their various smaller crony orginizations crumbling to dust,
we can eliminate a 200 year old license to murder into history, and
enter the 21st century a safer place for our children and our
children's children.
****End of Text*******
[ All 11 pages this was transcribed from are marked
CONFIDENTIAL by Handgun Control Incorporated ]
This file uploaded by G. L. Abney, as a public service and a warning to all
citizens who value the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Paul Morris
writes:
> 11 Banning of any Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in
> a Machine Gun.
> Periodicals such as "The Shotgun News" particularly cater to
> individuals which wish to build illegal machine guns. If Senator
> Feinstein's courageous section of the crime bill is successful
> in banning all machine guns, except for police and military, then
> there would be no legitimate need for Machine Gun parts except to
> build illegal weapons.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Since when is it legitimate to do somthing illegal?
I think we should let them pass a law that makes it legitimate to
build
illegal weapons. Wouldn't that accidently piss them off!
Michael Agney
>This was posted on Bluemoon by Dennis Carney, where he got it I don't know.
>--
>Larry Cipriani, l.v.ci...@att.com or attmail!lcipriani
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this document. This is the third
>generation cross post. The original message contains a claim that this
>document came from HCI headquarters, and the originals were marked
>"confidential". They were allegedly released by a sympathetic staffer...
>*****Begin Original Post*****
>Well, here it is, and I wasn't allowed to have the cover page. This is
>an internal agenda for HCI, and was never meant to be seen by the
>public. (the originals are marked confidential)
>P.S. Fienstien is now asking for all edged weapons to be banned, unless
>they have a gardening or kitchen utility purpose! Not to mention a ban
>of over 130 named firearms. She stated this in a conference thursday or
>friday.
>*****Begin Text******
<much deleted>
> 30 Banning of military reenactments
> The questionable "historical" value of these events has escaped
> public scrutiny for too long. Many of these so called historical
> events are mere excuses for gun nuts to blast the countryside with
> automatic weapons. What is to keep them from loading live bullets
> and having those stray bullets kill innocent children? What lives
> in the future will be lost due to this paramilitary training going
> on right under our noses? We propose the prohibition of
> Survivalist/paramilitary, World War I and World War II and Civil
> War Re-enactments on federal land, and hope to encourage the states
> to prohibit them from state and county lands as well.
> 31 Making unlawful the assembly of more than 4 armed individuals who
> are not peace officers or military
> Since most hunting parties consist of four, we recognize the need
> to eliminate the currently legal assembly of shooters for
> paramilitary training on private lands. This is just one good
> suggestion for our elimination of the "gun culture" from the
> mainstream.
I don't know about anyone else, but these sections really make this look to
me like a "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" sort of thing. Going after the
First as well as the Second? The HCI may be idiots or power-hungry proto-
dictators, but I give them slightly more credit than _this_.
At least, I _hope_ this is a hoax.
<rest deleted>
--
| Michael Agney | Accepting reality is the |
| | first step to insanity. |
| | |
| mag...@cco.caltech.edu | |
Mitchell Berg
Does anyone have a phone # or email address for HCI? I have had a little
practice at this - I'd like to try to run it down and get a confirm/deny/due
amount of gobbldygook from them.
email or post - I don't care.
Mitch Berg
------
My opinions are not those of whatever company I'm working for this week.
Larry M. Jordan
[] "...we recognize the need to eliminate the currently legal assembly
of shooters for paramilitary training on private lands. This is
just one good suggestion for our elimination of the "gun culture"
from the mainstream.
THERE GOES PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.
[] "The political climate can become right to initiate these random vehicle
stop and checks at all levels and in all types of neighborhoods.
YOUR PAPERS. EYES FORWARD. ...
[] "We cannot survive into the 21st century unless we remember the need
to expand our wave to new thinking to the total disarmament of
America."
THE CRUX.
"Germans(Americans) who wish to use firearms should join the
SS(BATF) or the SA(FBI) - ordinary citizens don't need guns,
as their having guns doesn't serve the State."
-- Heinrich Himmler
[] "With much of the public disarmed we can become more like
Great Britain, where we can also eliminate the need for much of our
police to be armed. This would take a long time, however, a
concerted public relations campaign can pressure local law
enforcement to give up their arms, when the time comes.
ONLY THE CRIMINALS WILL HAVE GUNS. What a vision.
[] "If the industry [TV/Film] cannot regulate itself, we may have to
eventually look at an independent branch of government, to
determine which scenes cause more harm than good to the public
and regulate the numbers of violent acts portayed.
Entertainment Oberfuhrer.
[] "Too much irresponsible material is purportedly covered by the 1st
Amendment, however, the time will come when our nation has to agree
that some literature does not belong in a safe society (, like
instruction manuals on how to kill, or how to make homemade
explosives, or nuclear bombs.)
What's next? When ideas are discovered to be the most
dangerous, ....The Bible? Revolutionary War Histories? The
Federalist Papers?
[] "We must realize that there can be such as thing as too much freedom
where such literature poses a serious threat to the public safety.
"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic,
and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it,
without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."
-- James Madison, The Federalist Papers (No. 46).
--Larry
"Freedom: An idea who time has come."
David Post
: I just wanted to quote some of the more memorable passages from the agenda:
I'm sure that many of us believe these thing about HCI, but without sources,
all's we can do is get pissed off.
Think about the easy defense against these accusations. All's they have to
say is "Somebody musta made that up!"
David Post po...@fc.hp.com
Big O
First, even if it is authentic, HCI will deny it. But regardless, it gives
us RKBA-defenders a list of issues to which we can ask for specific answers
from HCI, polititians, etc. They all will try to reply to us with
all-encompasing motherhood generality-type statements. We will need to
keep hameering away at them until they take hard public positions on each
and every issue in the document.
Second, it could be a plant by them to see what issues there will be strong
opposition to and to which have weak opposition. In short, they could be
gathering intelligence so as to develope a real master plan - and to find
the vulnerbilities (e.g. - disagreements) in our ranks for use of 'divide &
conquer' tactics.
--
All Disclaimers Apply (so as to protect my employer)
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it. -- Voltaire
Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On
the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed
beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place. -- Frederic
Bastiat
Stephen D. Grant
My personal opinion is that the document is accurate.
Its too well thought out, too close to their known mind-set.
I intend to take it seriously.
Better safe, than sorry.
Larry M. Jordan
>Larry M. Jordan (jor...@aero.org) wrote:
>: I just wanted to quote some of the more memorable passages from the agenda:
>
>I'm sure that many of us believe these thing about HCI, but without sources,
>all's we can do is get pissed off.
My apologies for not including the original reference. Stupid oversight
on my part. However, I have lost the original post. Would someone please
provide the 'header' for that post.
>
>Think about the easy defense against these accusations. All's they have to
>say is "Somebody musta made that up!"
>
>David Post po...@fc.hp.com
Of course they'll say this. "HCI disavows any knowledge...."
Mark the date. If events unfold as leaked, can't it be shoved
back in their face? Will this matter?
Could a pro-RKBA'er have created the document? (If he/she did,
pretty darn good job--the content, the tenor, the language--
all within character, it seems.) Naaaaaa.....
--Larry