"CPAN" SIG?
Hans Nowak
Just curious, but why isn't there a SIG for making a large library of
code? (Or is there and I am not aware of it?) I often see people ask if
Python has something like CPAN...
--Hans Nowak
David Porter
>
> Just curious, but why isn't there a SIG for making a large library of
> code? (Or is there and I am not aware of it?) I often see people ask if
> Python has something like CPAN...
>
The typical response I've seen is that this is related to the Distutils SIG.
Kragen Sitaker
>Just curious, but why isn't there a SIG for making a large library of
>code? (Or is there and I am not aware of it?) I often see people ask if
>Python has something like CPAN...
How about the Vaults of Parnassus? http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
--
<kra...@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we ourselves
possess.
-- Gandalf the Grey [J.R.R. Tolkien, "Lord of the Rings"]
Hans Nowak
On 26 Sep 00, at 21:10, Kragen Sitaker wrote:
> In article <39D0B7...@hvision.nl>, Hans Nowak <ivn...@hvision.nl> wrote:
> >Just curious, but why isn't there a SIG for making a large library of
> >code? (Or is there and I am not aware of it?) I often see people ask if
> >Python has something like CPAN...
>
> How about the Vaults of Parnassus? http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
That's just a bunch of links. :) I don't have anything negative to say
about the Vaults, mind you, just that it is nothing like CPAN. I take it
there is no interest in such a project or SIG.
--Hans Nowak (zephyr...@hvision.nl)
You call me a masterless man. You are wrong. I am my own master.
May a wicked rottweiler sing about your legs!
Kragen Sitaker
Hans Nowak <hno...@cuci.nl> wrote:
>On 26 Sep 00, at 21:10, Kragen Sitaker wrote:
>> In article <39D0B7...@hvision.nl>, Hans Nowak <ivn...@hvision.nl> wrote:
>> >Just curious, but why isn't there a SIG for making a large library of
>> >code? (Or is there and I am not aware of it?) I often see people ask if
>> >Python has something like CPAN...
>>
>> How about the Vaults of Parnassus? http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
>
>That's just a bunch of links. :) I don't have anything negative to say
>about the Vaults, mind you, just that it is nothing like CPAN. I take it
>there is no interest in such a project or SIG.
Quite the contrary; CPAN is one of the strongest arguments for using
Perl in most situations.
I would like to note that Python has lots of stuff in the standard
library you'd have to download from CPAN, which means you can find it
by looking in the index to the library manual under things like
'basename' and 'http'. So the situation with Python is not as dire.
Fred Pacquier
>Quite the contrary; CPAN is one of the strongest arguments for using
>Perl in most situations.
Indeed.
>I would like to note that Python has lots of stuff in the standard
>library you'd have to download from CPAN, which means you can find it
>by looking in the index to the library manual under things like
>'basename' and 'http'. So the situation with Python is not as dire.
It _can_ be hard to track down some of the more specialized stuff, however.
--
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/
entropia
modules across the net, and all are tired of reinvent the wheel.
And other related project is build a Python Deluxe distribution, with the more
stable and interesting python applications.
Why not create a SIG with this to proposals? I can help.
Hans Nowak escribió:
> On 26 Sep 00, at 21:10, Kragen Sitaker wrote:
>
> > In article <39D0B7...@hvision.nl>, Hans Nowak <ivn...@hvision.nl> wrote:
> > >Just curious, but why isn't there a SIG for making a large library of
> > >code? (Or is there and I am not aware of it?) I often see people ask if
> > >Python has something like CPAN...
> >
> > How about the Vaults of Parnassus? http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
>
> That's just a bunch of links. :) I don't have anything negative to say
> about the Vaults, mind you, just that it is nothing like CPAN. I take it
> there is no interest in such a project or SIG.
>
> --Hans Nowak (zephyr...@hvision.nl)
> You call me a masterless man. You are wrong. I am my own master.
> May a wicked rottweiler sing about your legs!
>
Darren New
> I think that a PyCPAN would be very useful.
PyPAN? ;-) You can have your cake and eat it too?
--
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand.
"No wonder it tastes funny.
I forgot to put the mint sauce on the tentacles."
Hans Nowak
> >> How about the Vaults of Parnassus? http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
> >
> >That's just a bunch of links. :) I don't have anything negative to say
> >about the Vaults, mind you, just that it is nothing like CPAN. I take it
> >there is no interest in such a project or SIG.
>
> Quite the contrary; CPAN is one of the strongest arguments for using
> Perl in most situations.
>
> I would like to note that Python has lots of stuff in the standard
> library you'd have to download from CPAN, which means you can find it
> by looking in the index to the library manual under things like
> 'basename' and 'http'. So the situation with Python is not as dire.
[I replied to this thru eGroups, but the message doesn't seem to show up
anywhere, so I'll try again...]
I agree... the standard library is an impressive piece of work, and is
(and should be) one's first stop when looking for existing code/modules.
However, it's often not enough, and it cannot be compared to CPAN when
it comes to size. It's still pretty basic, and probably intended that
way (or it would have been extended with 100s of modules the last few
years). As such, for some problems it offers a solution; for other
problems, it offers the start of one.
I still think it would be nice to have a more-or-less "official" central
point where specialized modules could be found, downloaded and installed
easily. There are many third-party modules available now, too; but they
are scattered all over the place, sometimes different versions coexist,
documentation lacks, etc.
I am not saying someone else should start this... I am willing to try
it... but before I do that I want to make sure there is enough interest
in such a project. Considering how much support my previous project got,
I think this is a valid concern.
Veel liefs,
--Hans Nowak
Tom Loredo
>
> On 26 Sep 00, at 21:10, Kragen Sitaker wrote:
> > How about the Vaults of Parnassus? http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
>
> That's just a bunch of links. :)
Vaults is great. However I strongly feel there is a need, if not
for CPAN, then at least for mirrors of Vaults. As someone who has
just written a grant proposal seeking support for a Python
project, I find it worrisome that Python's main source of info
about 3rd party libraries is a single site. In particular, Vaults
has been incredibly unstable in the last month or so; a web page
supporting my proposal links to it and I am just praying that
when the reviewers visit it, it's not one of the days that clicking
on the Vaults link returns an error message. There have been
many days like that lately.
The collective efforts of Python programmers are too vital a
component of the case for Python to be subject to this kind
of single-point failure. We need something broader and more
stable.
-Tom Loredo
James Felix Black
rather the ease with which that code can be obtained, and new code can
be added. The structure of CPAN, and the integration with tools like
h2xs, is the real treasure.
I'd be very interested, and would certainly volunteer my (vestigal)
python abilites towards the creation of such a tool.
Best,
(jfb)
--
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball,
but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not
forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
> Vaults is great. However I strongly feel there is a need, if not
> for CPAN, then at least for mirrors of Vaults. As someone who has
> just written a grant proposal seeking support for a Python
> project, I find it worrisome that Python's main source of info
> about 3rd party libraries is a single site. In particular, Vaults
> has been incredibly unstable in the last month or so; a web page
> supporting my proposal links to it and I am just praying that
> when the reviewers visit it, it's not one of the days that clicking
> on the Vaults link returns an error message. There have been
> many days like that lately.
There should be fewer lately. Let me tell you what has been going on.
Recently we did a major upgrade on Vex.Net. All third party packages
were upgraded and rebuilt as well. Since then the VoP (which is built
on Python and PostgreSQL) has been giving us troubles. Specifically,
the database engine kept crashing. We finally figured out that it was
the VoP database that was the problem and we created a second instance
of the engine to handle it. This has confirmed that the problem is
related to the VoP. We are now watching it carefully and are in the
process of writing a script to monitor and restart as necessary. I
have also had Tim send me the schema for the database so that I can
look it over and possibly help in case the problem is there. I will
also be helping him go through the code to see if we can find where
it crashes. Meanwhile, the Vaults should be up most of the time now.
> The collective efforts of Python programmers are too vital a
> component of the case for Python to be subject to this kind
> of single-point failure. We need something broader and more
> stable.
This, of course, is a different issue. Have you contacted Tim about
doing some mirroring? As long as you can install PostgreSQL and PyGreSQL
you should be able to run the same code. You may even be able to help
debug the current problems.
--
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <da...@vex.net> | Democracy is three wolves
http://www.vex.net/ | and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.
Tom Loredo
>
> Tom Loredo <lor...@spacenet.tn.cornell.edu> wrote:
> > The collective efforts of Python programmers are too vital a
> > component of the case for Python to be subject to this kind
> > of single-point failure. We need something broader and more
> > stable.
>
> This, of course, is a different issue. Have you contacted Tim about
> doing some mirroring? As long as you can install PostgreSQL and PyGreSQL
> you should be able to run the same code. You may even be able to help
> debug the current problems.
Unfortunately, due to security problems, only a single machine in our
network can be used as a web server, and only the sysadmin (who is not
a Python user) has this level of access. We mere users are only allowed
to post HTML and simple CGIs. We don't even have a public ftp area!
A bit paranoid, but unfortunately I don't make the rules....
-Tom Loredo
Kevin Russell
> > for CPAN, then at least for mirrors of Vaults. As someone who has
> > just written a grant proposal seeking support for a Python
> > project, I find it worrisome that Python's main source of info
> > about 3rd party libraries is a single site. In particular, Vaults
> > has been incredibly unstable in the last month or so; a web page
> > supporting my proposal links to it and I am just praying that
> > when the reviewers visit it, it's not one of the days that clicking
> > on the Vaults link returns an error message. There have been
> > many days like that lately.
>
> There should be fewer lately. Let me tell you what has been going on.
The dumped catalogues that the VoP offers when the database server
is down are actually relatively tolerable. But I just noticed that
the current ones are now three weeks old. Is there any way to
automate a more frequent schedule of updating the catalogue dumps --
at least until the database server regains its balance?
-- Kevin
Brad Clements
a truly distributed object database for Zope, which could be a good basis
for a distributed "Python-Pan" system.
The other issues such as installation tools still need to be considered, but
I'd sure like to tackle this problem using CODA or perhaps AFS when its
open-sourced this month by IBM.
--
Brad Clements,
b...@murkworks.com
"D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da...@vex.net> wrote in message
news:8qva89$1rft$1...@news.tht.net...
> Tom Loredo <lor...@spacenet.tn.cornell.edu> wrote:
> > Vaults is great. However I strongly feel there is a need, if not
> > for CPAN, then at least for mirrors of Vaults. As someone who has
> > just written a grant proposal seeking support for a Python
> > project, I find it worrisome that Python's main source of info
> > about 3rd party libraries is a single site. In particular, Vaults
> > has been incredibly unstable in the last month or so; a web page
> > supporting my proposal links to it and I am just praying that
> > when the reviewers visit it, it's not one of the days that clicking
> > on the Vaults link returns an error message. There have been
> > many days like that lately.
>
> There should be fewer lately. Let me tell you what has been going on.
>
> Recently we did a major upgrade on Vex.Net. All third party packages
> were upgraded and rebuilt as well. Since then the VoP (which is built
> on Python and PostgreSQL) has been giving us troubles. Specifically,
> the database engine kept crashing. We finally figured out that it was
> the VoP database that was the problem and we created a second instance
> of the engine to handle it. This has confirmed that the problem is
> related to the VoP. We are now watching it carefully and are in the
> process of writing a script to monitor and restart as necessary. I
> have also had Tim send me the schema for the database so that I can
> look it over and possibly help in case the problem is there. I will
> also be helping him go through the code to see if we can find where
> it crashes. Meanwhile, the Vaults should be up most of the time now.
>
> > The collective efforts of Python programmers are too vital a
> > component of the case for Python to be subject to this kind
> > of single-point failure. We need something broader and more
> > stable.
>
> This, of course, is a different issue. Have you contacted Tim about
> doing some mirroring? As long as you can install PostgreSQL and PyGreSQL
> you should be able to run the same code. You may even be able to help
> debug the current problems.
>
Martin von Loewis
> That's just a bunch of links. :) I don't have anything negative to say
> about the Vaults, mind you, just that it is nothing like CPAN. I take it
> there is no interest in such a project or SIG.
I think you misunderstood the response. There is certainly much
interest in such a project - the suggestion was that the distutils SIG
is the right place to discuss it.
As a developer, I'd like to do
python setup.py upload
and my package will end up in the CPAN (Comprehensive Python Archive
Network). Likewise, I'd like to put dependencies into setup.py, in the
way of
setup(...
depends_on:{'pyexpat':(2,25), 'Python':(1,5,2)}
)
so there is definitely interaction with the distutils. Also, it is
likely that people participating in the distutils SIG have already
already an opinion on these issues - so there may not be a need for a
new SIG.
Regards,
Martin
Martin von Loewis
> > I think that a PyCPAN would be very useful.
>
> PyPAN? ;-) You can have your cake and eat it too?
??? www.cpan.org says:
CPAN: Comprehensive Perl Archive Network
Martin
Mike Fletcher
PANC[ake] (Python Archive Network, Comprehensive -- all known
extensions)
(Out of the) Coding-PAN (into the compiler)
PythAN (use a flat southern "an" for the AN)
PyAN (pronounce as Pie-an, or even Pain, I suppose)
PytAN (pittan)
Dist-sys (carrying on from dist-utils)
Incidentally, I that that a fairly simple mechanism, such as a set of
controlled-namespace certificate structures containing publicly signed
information (SHA hash, data length, filename, version, author, author keys,
yada) plus at least one well-known public file repository would be a decent
start. Eventually you could consider distributing the certificates with the
base package or what have you. Unfortunately, I can't work on it as it's
too close to my real job. Those with a crypto package can check the
signatures, those without would have to trust some trusted site, crypto
would be required to check in, I would think.
Ah well, heads less encumbered than mine :o) ,
Mike
(For the record: My views, obviously, have nothing whatsoever to do with
anything my employer wants me to say :o) ).
-----Original Message-----
...
> PyPAN? ;-) You can have your cake and eat it too?
...
Ben Wolfson
Mike Fletcher <mfl...@tpresence.com> wrote:
>Alternatives:
>
> PANC[ake] (Python Archive Network, Comprehensive -- all known
>extensions)
> (Out of the) Coding-PAN (into the compiler)
> PythAN (use a flat southern "an" for the AN)
> PyAN (pronounce as Pie-an, or even Pain, I suppose)
> PytAN (pittan)
> Dist-sys (carrying on from dist-utils)
PAIN: Python Archive International Network.
--
Barnabas T. Rumjuggler's page of dumbth: members.home.net/rumjuggler
puto deus fio.
-- Vespasian, last words
entropia
entropia escribió:
> I like PAIN
>
> Ben Wolfson escribió:
> > --
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Adam Sampson
> PAIN: Python Archive International Network.
How about the "Standard Python Archive of Modules"?
--
Adam Sampson
a...@gnu.org
Heinz Eriksson
>
> wol...@midway.uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson) writes:
>
> > PAIN: Python Archive International Network.
>
Or "Olsen's Standard Python Archive of Modules"!
(The one without the gannet module).
/hz
entropia
Adam Sampson escribió:
> wol...@midway.uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson) writes:
>
> > PAIN: Python Archive International Network.
>
> How about the "Standard Python Archive of Modules"?
>
> --
>
> Adam Sampson
> a...@gnu.org
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list