Andromeda
Endymion9
haven't heard one thing yet halfway convincing that it's worth
-dying for
-giving up a second chance to be with your true love for
-even coming out of the black hole for
--
Dennis/Endy
~dancing us from the darkest nights is the rhythm of love powered by the
beating of hearts~
http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm
--
Dennis/Endy
~dancing us from the darkest nights is the rhythm of love powered by the
beating of hearts~
http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm
Travers Naran
news:9190cq$9nc$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> Biggest problem with the show. What's so great about the commonwealth??
I
> haven't heard one thing yet halfway convincing that it's worth
> -dying for
> -giving up a second chance to be with your true love for
> -even coming out of the black hole for
They *still* haven't addressed that yet? Sheesh! Looks like I bailed at
the right time.
O. Deus
> haven't heard one thing yet halfway convincing that it's worth
> -dying for
> -giving up a second chance to be with your true love for
> -even coming out of the black hole for
Why the Commonwealth is wonderful. It was the most perfect society we
never knew about and was incapable of defending itself and was brought
down by civil war.
Any contradictions in the above are not the fault of the writers but the
product of your imagination.
--
"Hunt: Oh no, now I'm ever so lonely and my mission of restoring the
Commonwealth is nowhere closer to fullfillment. Hey Khan want to join my
crew and work with me towards rebuilding the once and mighty
Commonwealth while experiencing the joy of taking your orders from a
mental defective wearing mauve latex?
Khan: Fool.
Hunt: Wait stay with me, it'll just be the two of us and I just know
we can have great homoerotic chemistry together. KHAAAANNNNN!"
The Mild Annoyance of Khan
JMarien3
on 12/14/00wrote:
This one's easy. The Commonwealth is worth dying for because Hunt says it is.
After all, he is so *noble*.
Now, do you really need any further explanation?
I bailed too after the recent dreadful episode about the prison planet.
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
That one may make my all-time most awful SF eps. Though I bailed from
Voyager before the "take that cheese to sick bay" episode. Kind of
sorry I missed that one ! :)
Lisa Coulter
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
JMarien3
Voyager and cheese? Yea, they do go together!
I think the best *new* SF show on TV now is Dark Angel. I love the dark edge to
this show and the backstory is well thought out. It's progressing nicely.
I haven't joined in any discussions on this show yet because I've just finally
caught up with it. When the 2-hour pilot aired, I was busy and recorded it. By
the time the next episode aired, I still hadn't watched the first. And so it
went. I finally got caught up and watched my first episode "live" episode this
week.
Mike Vanpelt
>"Travers Naran" tna...@direct.ca >on 12/14/00wrote:
>>"Endymion9" <endy...@mindspring.com> wrote
>>
>>the right time.
>
Man was that one ever wretched. Generating enough power to run
an robot with a couple of gourds filled with baking soda and
vinegar... sheesh! Their technical advisor should have smacked
them with something more substantial than a slide rule for that.
But last week, they replayed the first part of the pilot, which
I had missed, and it reminded me of the potential this series
has, which got me interested in the first place.
(OK, so the "Brian Froud Troll" is a Nightsider. When do we get
to see a Vedran? Will they have to be CGI?)
So I'm going to give it a little longer.
I just hope they are going to do some justice to the fairly nice
premise they've set up.
--
Mike Van Pelt /"\ ASCII Ribbon campaign against E-Mail
mvp at calweb.com \ / in gratuitous HTML and Microsoft
KE6BVH X proprietary formats.
/ \
Gharlane of Eddore
"Endymion9" <endy...@mindspring.com> wrote
>
> Biggest problem with the show. What's so great about the commonwealth??
>
It's got the same name as the moribund British thingie?
"Travers Naran" tna...@direct.ca >on 12/14/00wrote:
>
> They *still* haven't addressed that yet?
> Sheesh! Looks like I bailed at the right time.
>
Well, actually, they have; but the censors won't let them show the
episode with the Purple Jello, that explains why everyone worships
the Commonwealth.
JMarien3 <jmar...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I bailed too after the recent dreadful episode about the prison planet.
>
It wasn't *THAT* bad. In fact, it looked pretty good next to the
average episode of UPN's "FREEDOM."
In <3a393132$1...@news3.calweb.com>,
Mike Vanpelt <m...@web1.calweb.com> wrote:
>
> Man was that one ever wretched. Generating enough power to run
> an robot with a couple of gourds filled with baking soda and
> vinegar... sheesh! Their technical advisor should have smacked
> them with something more substantial than a slide rule for that.
>
Do they *HAVE* a technical advisor? There's someone listed in
the credits, but is this another deal like the Paramount bozo
who will sign off on anything as long as the checks don't bounce
and they buy an occasional script from him, so he can go out in
the world and lecture on how "sometimes the science has to take
a back seat for the sake of the story," or "I don't really know
anything outside my own field." ???
>
> But last week, they replayed the first part of the pilot, which
> I had missed, and it reminded me of the potential this series
> has, which got me interested in the first place.
>
You're kidding, right? I was so aghast at the pilot that I never
bothered to post a review; in fact, I intended to wait until the
second half was aired, to see if it improved. After I'd seen
*THAT*, I decided to wait four, due to all the conceptualthat
slapdash.. I thought... and then I decided to go for eight, and
held off a week due to having to write few final exams, and then
I saw Number Nine, which would have made me suspect someone had
hired Tracy Torme or Jean Cavelos to perpetrate a script....
And then remembered I'd seen Ethlie Ann Vare's name in the open
credits.
They don't have a competent technical advisor, Wolfe didn't pay
attention in the one or two semesters of freshman physics he had
prior to transferring to a liberal-arts major, and no one involved
with the show understands military management or has enough genre
background to design a solid alien race, or a defensible modified
human race.
The reasons I'm still watching it: they *DO* have some
storytellers working there, and even when the set-up is
indefensibly stupid, they're doing a better job than many
other shows... and it's got room to improve, and a couple
excellent actors ( I'd never heard of Keith Cobb, and I
think he's doing a great job even when the dialog is iffy )
and some pretty effects work.
>
> (OK, so the "Brian Froud Troll" is a Nightsider. When do we get
> to see a Vedran? Will they have to be CGI?)
>
> So I'm going to give it a little longer.
>
> I just hope they are going to do some justice to the fairly nice
> premise they've set up.
>
Well, it's worked out fine in a lot of prior SF, so there's
no reason not to expect the possibility that it can work
out well here; but while we wait to see what they can do,
I'm just wishing them good luck and hoping they pull it
off.
Heck, if unutterable garbage like "EARTH: FINAL CONFLICT"
can get renewed, "ANDROMEDA" should last for decades.
JMarien3
on 12/14/00 wrote:
>
>JMarien3 <jmar...@aol.com> wrote:
>>"Travers Naran" tna...@direct.ca >on 12/14/00wrote:
>>>"Endymion9" <endy...@mindspring.com> wrote
>>>> Biggest problem with the show. What's so great about the commonwealth??
>>>
>>>They *still* haven't addressed that yet? Sheesh! Looks like I bailed at
>>>the right time.
>>
>>I bailed too after the recent dreadful episode about the prison planet.
>
>Man was that one ever wretched.
Yes, it was. Nuff said.
<SNIP>
>So I'm going to give it a little longer.
>
>I just hope they are going to do some justice to the fairly nice
>premise they've set up.
>
I never cared for it from the start, frankly. I found it dull and derivative.
But, as stated in a post several weeks ago, I committed to stick with it for a
bit longer and give it a chance. However, my opinion hasn't changed. Then this
episode hit ... and sunk like a rock, as far as I'm concerned. So I'm bailing.
I may catch it from time to time if I happen to be channel surfing and run
across it, but I'm not going to make it a point to catch it. Give me Dark
Angel, any day.
Eric Edwards
>Biggest problem with the show. What's so great about the commonwealth?? I
>haven't heard one thing yet halfway convincing that it's worth
>-dying for
>-giving up a second chance to be with your true love for
>-even coming out of the black hole for
There was a feeble speech in the pilot:
"Things have gotten a lot harder" Eh?
"The strong prey on the weak"
And and I guess health care has gone down the tubes because Harper had
the measles.
Pretty weak, if you ask me. There doesn't seem to be much evidence that
this "dark age" is all that dark. The Maru has an awfully good
database. 'Must not be too difficult to move from place to place
connecting information. That people keep shooting at the Andromeda with
missiles suggests that there is still enough industry to build ships and
missiles.
There is a prison system run by corporations. So there is enough of an
economy to support mega corporations. And there seem to be operating
local governments that can convict criminals.
Galactic recession, I can buy. Maybe even a galactic depression. But
there doesn't seem to be dark age. Now if most all the ships they
encountered were left over relics from the Commonwealth with subsystems
failing for lack of spare parts, then I might believe it. But they've
already blown that angle.
About all they seem to need the Commonwealth for is collective
protection against the Magog.
--
Real courtesy requires human effort and understanding.
Never let your machine or your habit send courtesy copies.
norv...@sirius.com
>jmar...@aol.com (JMarien3) wrote:
>>>"Endymion9" <endy...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>Biggest problem with the show. What's so great about the commonwealth??
>>>>I haven't heard one thing yet halfway convincing that it's worth
>>>>-dying for
>>>>-giving up a second chance to be with your true love for
>>>>-even coming out of the black hole for
Well, gee, it would be worth all that because a Captain of the High Guard
says it was. Isn't that *obvious*? :-)
I'm thinking part of the point of this series is to see how long a totally
naive captain from a more utopian time manages to survive...
I *really* hope that it turns out that the Commonwealth was a joke worth
overthrowing, and that Hunt has to deal with that... I mean, if it was
anything like the Federation has proven to be in recent years, it didn't
deserve to stay around.
>>>They *still* haven't addressed that yet? Sheesh! Looks like I bailed at
>>>the right time.
>>
>>This one's easy. The Commonwealth is worth dying for because Hunt says it is.
>>After all, he is so *noble*.
And so naive. I think that Tyr may choose to stay with him just to see how
long he survives. :->
In a way, it's like Kerr Avon ("Blake's 7") watching Roj Blake with
fascination, wondering how someone so innocent and altruistic can live for
long in a universe that's out to get 'em.
>>Now, do you really need any further explanation?
>>I bailed too after the recent dreadful episode about the prison planet.
It sucked dead bunnies. However, I've become attached to watching Keith
Hamilton Cobb (Tyr) and even Kevin Sorbo (though I never watched him in
anything before, certainly not "Hercules"), and quite like the sentient
ship herself... so, nah, I'll watch more of it.
> That one may make my all-time most awful SF eps. Though I bailed from
> Voyager before the "take that cheese to sick bay" episode. Kind of
> sorry I missed that one! :)
I quit "Voyager" in its first season. I may yet quit "Andromeda", except I
like more about "Andromeda" than I ever did with "Voyager". <shrug>
It's just space opera; I just watch it for fun and the hunk factor. I
would be embarrassed, except I don't care to bother. :-)
--
norv...@sirius.com
"...To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
<*> "Ulysses" by Tennyson <*>
O. Deus
> this show and the backstory is well thought out. It's progressing nicely.
Yeah it's just stunning, between the amazing performances of Jessica
Alba who makes Jeri Ryan look like Meryl Streep and the repetitive
pointless episodes, this one will go down in history as James Cameron's
worst disaster since Titanic.
> I haven't joined in any discussions on this show yet because I've just finally
> caught up with it. When the 2-hour pilot aired, I was busy and recorded it. By
> the time the next episode aired, I still hadn't watched the first. And so it
> went. I finally got caught up and watched my first episode "live" episode this
> week.
Your maternal orifice must be very proud
O. Deus
tournaments and philophical religions that are organized on a galactic
sort of Catholic scale.
The only thing they're missing is the vast single org to tie it all
together which is what Captain Clueless is offering
--
Pål Are Nordal
>
> hired Tracy Torme or Jean Cavelos to perpetrate a script....
OBSP: Jeanne
Nyah nyah nyah nyah!
--
Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/
Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
And the sad thing is, it seemed to have some promise. But Alba is an
awful actress, and well not as an expert or anyting but to me she's not
even that pretty! (My husband strngly disagrees so maybe I'm wrong, but
about the only thing she's got is thinness and youth IMHO). Then there
was the ep where she went into heat... Andromeda may not have much of a
technical advisor, but DA needs to go to high school! No wonder the
writer said he "didn't write SF" on SciFi Wire - that should have warned
me! As for Blah, Blah, Wolf... I saw no motivation for the other
Manticore to sacrifice himself for Max, and frankly she screwed up big
time coming back to Seattle - of course, since this is standard episodic
TV, we knew she'd have to! And then people here are saying that's one
of the best episodes! If that's good, give me TKO any day!
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
I've hesitated to comment on Andromeda since I haven't seen all the
episodes, but this absolutely seems to be the case! And the
Commonwealth had over a *million* worlds and fell to a civil war in
which 1000 ships decided it? Yes, right ! I mean, they even have the
periodic falls of Chinese civilization and the European Dark Ages to
model off of, and they can't get that right!
As for Hunt being noble, I guess. To me he seems clueless and only apt
to get upset about things if it's in the script writer's best interest.
there is no consistency from week to week for him, and Tyr and the
Nietzcheans' managed to beat the greatest civilization ever by listening
to sophomoric philosophers (Rand and Nietzche). It's just incredibly
hard to take this at all seriously..
Also someone mentioned earlier that they pull the emotion card too
quickly, and having watched the one with Sorbo's wife I have to agree.
I saw an episode of Sargate SG1 (which I hardly ever watch, and frankly
will be looking for more.) In it, a major female character died. I felt
more for the people in that show just seeing it for an hour than
Andromeda has been able to make me feel since it aired.
And the Trance thing is getting very irritating. He went from being fun
and subtle to bashing us over the head with it so fast that I haven't
caught my breath yet. And one thing I *hated* about the original Trek
was the way it bashed you, eps with moral messages (and in addition to
trance, the prison planet and Tyr reading Rand struck me strongly with
deja vu a la Trek.)
Anyway, I know a lot of you folks like it, and I probably won't go on
watching it enough to post much more. OTOH, it really makes me mad when
people claim that they are producing great SF and expect me to like such
(IMHO) drek.
Lisa
Paul Vader
>Nietzcheans' managed to beat the greatest civilization ever by listening
>to sophomoric philosophers (Rand and Nietzche). It's just incredibly
>hard to take this at all seriously..
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
>
>I saw an episode of Sargate SG1 (which I hardly ever watch, and frankly
>will be looking for more.) In it, a major female character died. I felt
>more for the people in that show just seeing it for an hour than
>Andromeda has been able to make me feel since it aired.
Assuming you're talking about "forever in a day", I don't agree with you at
all. The two character deaths we've seen (Shar'e and Martouf) were both done
in a heavy handed manner to kill off a romantic interest (in Shar'e case for
no good reason that I can see, in Martouf's so the focus could be put on
Sam and Jack's "relationship"). Not that any of this has the slightest to do
with Andromeda. Hint: they're two very different shows.
>And the Trance thing is getting very irritating. He went from being fun
>and subtle to bashing us over the head with it so fast that I haven't
>caught my breath yet. And one thing I *hated* about the original Trek
What are they bashing you over the head with? She's the ship's girly-girl.
I suppose anyone who loves plants is a left-wing subersive commie?
What I am wondering about the series is why it isn't "Larry Niven's
Andromeda". It's been obvious since the pilot that Trance is Teela Brown,
and Tyr is a Kzinti in all but the fur. His people even organize themselves
in prides.
It's not great art, but I have to say that Mr. Wolfe knows good stuff to
steal from when he sees it. *
P.S. What was so bad about the prison planet episode anyway? It was way over
the top cliche, but damning the whole episode because of soil
chemistry (*alien*, *artificial* soil chemistry I might add) is
fanboy stupidity.
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
Paul Vader
>Nietzcheans' managed to beat the greatest civilization ever by listening
>to sophomoric philosophers (Rand and Nietzche). It's just incredibly
>hard to take this at all seriously..
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
>
>I saw an episode of Sargate SG1 (which I hardly ever watch, and frankly
>will be looking for more.) In it, a major female character died. I felt
>more for the people in that show just seeing it for an hour than
>Andromeda has been able to make me feel since it aired.
Assuming you're talking about "forever in a day", I don't agree with you at
all. The two character deaths we've seen (Shar'e and Martouf) were both done
in a heavy handed manner to kill off a romantic interest (in Shar'e's case for
no good reason that I can see, in Martouf's so the focus could be put on
Sam and Jack's "relationship"). Not that any of this has the slightest to do
with Andromeda. Hint: they're two very different shows.
>And the Trance thing is getting very irritating. He went from being fun
>and subtle to bashing us over the head with it so fast that I haven't
>caught my breath yet. And one thing I *hated* about the original Trek
What are they bashing you over the head with? She's the ship's girly-girl.
I suppose anyone who loves plants is a left-wing subversive commie?
Mike Vanpelt
Paul Vader <p...@mars.mcs.net> wrote:
>What are they bashing you over the head with? She's the ship's girly-girl.
>I suppose anyone who loves plants is a left-wing subersive commie?
I think the alleged "bashing the viewer over the head with it" is
that she's manipulating events, and is far more than the purple
Valley Girl she appears.
It started off subtle, then had a marvelous "WHACK!" (if not a
JMSian "WHAM") when she pruned that Bonsai tree. Now we know.
Smugly controlling the flip of the coin was kind of drifting over
into "bashing us over the head". "Alright already, we got it."
I don't fault them too much for this; they want to make sure the
slower viewers catch on.
>What I am wondering about the series is why it isn't "Larry Niven's
>Andromeda". It's been obvious since the pilot that Trance is Teela Brown,
>and Tyr is a Kzinti in all but the fur. His people even organize themselves
>in prides.
>
>It's not great art, but I have to say that Mr. Wolfe knows good stuff to
>steal from when he sees it. *
I think you've put your finger on what keeps me watching so far.
I don't think she's a teela, though. Teela Brown wasn't deliberately
manipulating events, at least until she went Protector stage.
They're making sure everyone (but the characters) knows that
Trance is manipulating events. I hope the other characters catch
on soon; they seem pretty dim not to have picked up on it.
(Actually, there are clues that some of them are suspicious.)
>P.S. What was so bad about the prison planet episode anyway? It was way over
> the top cliche, but damning the whole episode because of soil
> chemistry (*alien*, *artificial* soil chemistry I might add) is
> fanboy stupidity.
Well... I'm trying to think of a soil chemistry compatible with
human life in the short term (not worrying about growing crops),
which is consistent with scooping up some dirt and it and vinegar
having a high enough energy reaction to generate the power output
displayed, high-voltage arcing all over the place when Andromeda
connected to it.
I'd like to know what components of any kind can produce a single
cell with sufficient voltage to produce that kind of arcing. Not
even monatomic fluorine and francium would produce a high enough
voltage, and if monatomic flourine and francium are found in
abundance, that's somewhat more incompatible with Life As We Know
It than we were shown in this episode.
(What they showed was a single cell, not a pile, with alkaline dirt
in one gourd and vinegar in the other.)
Other than that... Have we been shown the ability of Hunt and the
Andromeda android to carry on radio conversations with each other
before? I think there have been a few incidents where that would
have been extremely useful in previous episodes, and it wasn't
mentioned or used. They can slide by any number of impossible
things without losing too many viewers, but internal inconsistency
is a killer for suspension of disbelief.
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
p...@mars.mcs.net (Paul Vader) wrote:
> lisa_c...@my-deja.com writes:
> >Nietzcheans' managed to beat the greatest civilization ever by
listening
> >to sophomoric philosophers (Rand and Nietzche). It's just incredibly
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> >hard to take this at all seriously..
>
> I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I recognized that it could mean one thing to me and another (taking it
as humor?) to you. I knew what word I was using and why I used it.
> >
> >I saw an episode of Sargate SG1 (which I hardly ever watch, and
frankly
> >will be looking for more.) In it, a major female character died. I
felt
> >more for the people in that show just seeing it for an hour than
> >Andromeda has been able to make me feel since it aired.
>
> Assuming you're talking about "forever in a day", I don't agree with
you at
> all. The two character deaths we've seen (Shar'e and Martouf) were
both done
> in a heavy handed manner to kill off a romantic interest (in Shar'e's
case for
> no good reason that I can see, in Martouf's so the focus could be put
on
> Sam and Jack's "relationship"). Not that any of this has the slightest
to do
> with Andromeda. Hint: they're two very different shows.
Gee, I *never* could have figured that out! I thought that was my point!
Andromeda is drek, Stargate appears to have promise.
>
> >And the Trance thing is getting very irritating. He went from being
fun
> >and subtle to bashing us over the head with it so fast that I haven't
> >caught my breath yet. And one thing I *hated* about the original
Trek
>
> What are they bashing you over the head with? She's the ship's
girly-girl.
> I suppose anyone who loves plants is a left-wing subversive commie?
>
A girly girl? Have we been watching the same show? Maybe Wolfe *does*
have to hit people over the head to get things across - she's *much*
more than she seems, and no one is bothered about it. Some great
mystery - all right, I get it, so what?
And left wing? i don't think Trance thinks anything like this, and I
don't know that the creators of Andromeda do or not! (And frankly I
don't care; jms is a liberal (modern American type, not classical :) )
and he is a wonderful SF person!
> What I am wondering about the series is why it isn't "Larry Niven's
> Andromeda". It's been obvious since the pilot that Trance is Teela
Brown,
> and Tyr is a Kzinti in all but the fur. His people even organize
themselves
> in prides.
Larry Niven is *much* better than this! One of my favorite of the older
SF writers. to compare this to Niven - shudder!
Teela was lucky. Trance is manipulative, not that I'm saying that's
bad, I don't know enough of her motives. Two very different things!
>
> It's not great art, but I have to say that Mr. Wolfe knows good stuff
to
> steal from when he sees it. *
>
Really? Does he know what he's stealing from, or that he is stealing? I
don't know, since I (obviously) don't know him, but I'm less than
impressed.
> P.S. What was so bad about the prison planet episode anyway? It was
way over
> the top cliche, but damning the whole episode because of soil
> chemistry (*alien*, *artificial* soil chemistry I might add) is
> fanboy stupidity.
> --
>
> * PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
> like corkscrews.
>
this clinches it. If you think that was the main reason, not that it's
not a reasonable one (sounds like a certain Eddorian to me, thanks!)
It's clear that you'll watch anyting they put on, and whatever you think
of me I have spent far too much time and energy responding to it!
Paul Vader
>I think the alleged "bashing the viewer over the head with it" is
>that she's manipulating events, and is far more than the purple
>Valley Girl she appears.
Oh, I thought the person I was responding to didn't like her "plant loving,
non-violent" attitude.
>
>It started off subtle, then had a marvelous "WHACK!" (if not a
>JMSian "WHAM") when she pruned that Bonsai tree. Now we know.
>Smugly controlling the flip of the coin was kind of drifting over
>into "bashing us over the head". "Alright already, we got it."
Maybe I do need to be bashed over the head, because I didn't read this as
manipulation. if she has been manipulating events, it's been with a very
light touch.
I still think the Teela Brown effect fits better. It would explain why she
could casually forget to put her spacesuit helmet on (somebody is bound to
remind her at the last minute), why she didn't get along with the
slipstream drive (it's affected by probabilities), and of course there's
the coin. If you grew up with the psychic ability to do the right thing
seemingly by accident, you yourself wouldn't think it was weird that you
oculd guess the flip right every time. After all, she's apparently never
seen a coin flip before, so she doesn't know *everybody* can't do that.
It isn't like she has statues of the crew sitting on a chessboard in her
quarters or something. Wherever this bit is going, I think it's been
handled well.
>Well... I'm trying to think of a soil chemistry compatible with
>human life in the short term (not worrying about growing crops),
>which is consistent with scooping up some dirt and it and vinegar
>having a high enough energy reaction to generate the power output
>displayed, high-voltage arcing all over the place when Andromeda
>connected to it.
I'll accept that the effect was overly dramatic, but it's certainly not as
painful as watching someone getting an anti-radiation shot every week.
>Other than that... Have we been shown the ability of Hunt and the
>Andromeda android to carry on radio conversations with each other
>before? I think there have been a few incidents where that would
>have been extremely useful in previous episodes, and it wasn't
>mentioned or used. They can slide by any number of impossible
Perhaps not mentioned directly, but since Andromeda generally always
appears when called or mentioned, she probably has the crew bugged ("P.S.
What's a spy ray?") in some way. Dylan at least has an implanted
transceiver, and from the casual way he used it it's probably High Guard
standard issue. *
bekava...@my-deja.com
Many thanks for your analyses. A few notes: Larry Niven says 'hi.'
(Not really, but we've spoken and he likes our show. And I like his
books...) Paul Woodmansee, our technical consultant (day job: rocket
scientist at JPL) challenges all comers to a duel: sliderules at 40
paces. And 'A Rose in the Ashes,' an episode I thought was seriously
flawed even though I wrote it, garnered a 4.2 rating, the highest total
since the pilot.
Go figure. I was thinking "chicks knife fighting," but maybe Xax has a
brother counting Nielsens....
We wrap shooting Season One today; join us in January for new episodes
and, for the writing staff, a new scribbling season. Onward -
Vienna Leather
Co-Producer (got a promotion...)
Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda
JMarien3
>In article <20001214180919...@ng-ff1.aol.com>,
> jmar...@aol.com (JMarien3) wrote:
<SNIP>
>>Give me Dark Angel, any day.
>>
>I've watched more DA than Andromeda, and sorry but I think it's awful.
>And the sad thing is, it seemed to have some promise. But Alba is an
>awful actress, and well not as an expert or anyting but to me she's not
>even that pretty! (My husband strngly disagrees so maybe I'm wrong, but
>about the only thing she's got is thinness and youth IMHO). Then there
>was the ep where she went into heat... Andromeda may not have much of a
>technical advisor, but DA needs to go to high school! No wonder the
>writer said he "didn't write SF" on SciFi Wire - that should have warned
>me! As for Blah, Blah, Wolf... I saw no motivation for the other
>Manticore to sacrifice himself for Max, and frankly she screwed up big
>time coming back to Seattle - of course, since this is standard episodic
>TV, we knew she'd have to! And then people here are saying that's one
>of the best episodes! If that's good, give me TKO any day!
>
I like DA's darkness, and I do so think Ms. Alba's sexy indeed. Every SF show
requires some or a lot of suspension of bisbelief, but it seems well thought
out on the whole and I think it's progressing nicely. I'll take it in spades
over Andromeda any day of the week, thanks.
Gharlane of Eddore
>
> Greetings, salutations and Merry Kwaanza to all!
>
Kwanzaa? Nothing like touting a completely synthesized racist
holiday created out of thin air only a few decades back, apparently
primarily with the intent of cutting extra income for the merchants
involved. ( Note the lawsuits levelled against Honky Manufacturers
who dared to produce ornaments and accessories in support of the
"private holiday." )
References to "Ramadan," "Channukkah," "Solstice," "Yule,"
"Christmas," "MidWinter," or even "Ski Season" might have been
better considered, or at least more likely to elicit a positive
response.
>
> Many thanks for your analyses. A few notes: Larry Niven says 'hi.'
> (Not really, but we've spoken and he likes our show. And I like his
> books...) Paul Woodmansee, our technical consultant (day job: rocket
> scientist at JPL) challenges all comers to a duel: sliderules at 40
> paces. And 'A Rose in the Ashes,' an episode I thought was seriously
> flawed even though I wrote it, garnered a 4.2 rating, the highest total
> since the pilot.
>
Milady, this is the *wrong* venue in which to issue technical analysis
challenges; your technical advisor may be a wonderful human being, a
great guy, and have a job at NASA, but there are people on this topic
who actually did work in the U.S. space program before he was born, got
satellites into orbit using slide rules and early IBM mainframes, and
can eat kids like him for breakfast if they get bored enough to bother.
And a good many of the rest of us are engineers and physicists, or
just plain have enough hardware experience to know when something is
*WRONG*.
We've obviously been far too polite, since your show has been such a
welcome relief, coming on the heels of a decade of utterly worthless
SkiFfy-TV.... I strongly suggest that, some time in the near future,
you take the trouble to let Mr. Woodmansee read the scripts, prior
to appending his name in the end-credits; he may wish to consider
using some sort of pseudonym, so that when he appears in public,
people will not point and giggle. It might also be beneficial for
him to read a couple of books on general science, since his venue
of competence is apparently rather focussed. A competent SF technical
advisor has to know more than one particular field; and in this case,
his competence in even his own field is strongly suspect, just on the
basis of how he apparently thinks batteries work.
>
> Go figure. I was thinking "chicks knife fighting," but maybe Xax
> has a brother counting Nielsens....
>
Consider the fact that Andrea Parker is the *only* TV-actress showing
up much at present who can actually handle a weapon believeably.
( This is due to her fondness for aggressively competitive sports like
sports-car racing and match shooting, and the fact that all those
years in the ballet left her in good enough shape to do them *well*.
I presume her husband is very polite and does the dishes, and the
cooking, at least half the time. )
The choice of the Official Commonwealth Magical Omni-Weapon, the
Magic Staff that shoots lighting bolts and does whatever else is
necessary, has obviated the need for a lot of specialized movement
training among your acting crew; but those actors who carry L-grip
weapons do *not* handle them competently, and probably need some
time on the range to learn to feel comfortable with hand weapons.
Just as one example, with her background and personality, Beka
Valentine *should* handle a side-arm like a cross between Annie
Oakley and Bill Hickock; but her body language in weapons-handling
scenes telegraphs the fact that she's not about to shoot, and the
bent wrist is a huge giveaway; when she's handling a weapon, it
is *not* an extension of herself. And the character *should* be
good with *all* machines, based on her purported piloting skills
and general competence level.
Making it a habit to issue the actors knives and have them dance about
would probably not be a wise choice, at least without a good fight
or stunt choreographer. ( You've got good people there, they can
handle the job, but you have to help them set it up. )
As for the rating...
It got a 4.2 due to Acute Re-Run and Sports Programming Density in
many areas. ( I watched it twice myself; the second time, to
see if it was actually as I'd thought it had been -- and it, alas,
stayed the same, completely failed to improve. )
>
> We wrap shooting Season One today; join us in January for new episodes
> and, for the writing staff, a new scribbling season. Onward -
>
> Vienna Leather
> Co-Producer (got a promotion...)
> Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda
>
Oh, we'll be watching; we just won't be *actively recommending it*
to our SF-fan friends, so as to avoid undue embarrassment, and jibing
queries as to our habitual state of inebriation while watching TV.
More like, " 'ANDROMEDA' is fun sometimes, but don't expect too much
from it; we're not talking about a 'STARGATE SG-1' here."
Happy Yule, and hire a technical advisor. ( Or build a fire under
the one you've got and wake him up and make him work for a living. )
William December Starr
ghar...@kithrup.com (Gharlane of Eddore) said:
> In <91e8nm$pb9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <bekava...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings, salutations and Merry Kwaanza to all!
>
> Kwanzaa? Nothing like touting a completely synthesized racist holiday
> created out of thin air only a few decades back, apparently primarily
> with the intent of cutting extra income for the merchants involved.
It's always with some trepidation that I enter into disagreement with
someone like Gharlane -- too much respect for his knowledge _and_ for
the person -- but...
Shrug. If a holiday succeeds in doing, um, whatever it is that holidays
are supposed to succeed in doing -- in terms of Christmas-like ones,
getting families together, giving people the warmfuzzies, etc. -- then I
don't think that its origins, or its originators' intents, really
matter[1]. And while it may be racialist, I don't think it's racist.
1: SFnal analogy: _The Postman_ (David Brin's fix-up novel, not that
Costner thing). The restoration of the United States started out as
an itinerant starving actor's con for food and survival, and grew
into, well, the seeds of the restoration of a pretty good nation.
Is the result any less worthy because of its base origins?
> ( Note the lawsuits levelled against Honky Manufacturers who dared to
> produce ornaments and accessories in support of the "private holiday." )
Out of curiosity, did any of them survive the initial motions to
dismiss?
[ *snip* ]
> Milady, this is the *wrong* venue in which to issue technical analysis
> challenges; your technical advisor may be a wonderful human being, a
> great guy, and have a job at NASA, but there are people on this topic
> who actually did work in the U.S. space program before he was born,
> got satellites into orbit using slide rules and early IBM mainframes,
Wouldn't booster rockets have been more efficient?
[ *snip* ]
> The choice of the Official Commonwealth Magical Omni-Weapon, the Magic
> Staff that shoots lighting bolts and does whatever else is necessary,
> has obviated the need for a lot of specialized movement training among
> your acting crew; but those actors who carry L-grip weapons do *not*
> handle them competently, and probably need some time on the range to
> learn to feel comfortable with hand weapons.
Given that many of them are probably hand-made props, ghu alone knows
what the balance in the things is like... That might help to excuse
the random extras at least, though you're quite right in saying that a
front-line actor like Ms. Ryder should do, or be made to do, much
better.
-- William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
William December Starr
lisa_c...@my-deja.com said:
> I've watched more DA than Andromeda, and sorry but I think it's awful.
> And the sad thing is, it seemed to have some promise. But Alba is an
> awful actress, and well not as an expert or anyting but to me she's
> not even that pretty! (My husband strngly disagrees so maybe I'm
> wrong, but about the only thing she's got is thinness and youth IMHO).
She's one of those people who'd _be_ beautiful if only she could act, I
think. Sort of like Jeri Ryan, who _can_ act.
ar...@ix.netcom.com
If he can end a galatic war by saying "Get the hell out of our
galaxy", patching the commonwealth together would be childs play.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|I bailed too after the recent dreadful episode about the prison planet.
That was the second complete episode of the show I had seen (I saw part of
the Tyr/pirates ep).
I decided that I was watching the show too often.
Query: is Hunt SUPPOSED to be a complete asshole? "Don't worry, I'll
tackle the android!" That's the kind of thing we RPG players joke about in
Famous Last Words posts....
Dennis F. Heffernan EQ: Venture Fletcher(E'ci) dfra...@email.com
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|P.S. What was so bad about the prison planet episode anyway? It was way over
| the top cliche, but damning the whole episode because of soil
| chemistry (*alien*, *artificial* soil chemistry I might add) is
| fanboy stupidity.
What was bad about it was that just about everyone acted like complete and
utter morons.
Gharlane of Eddore
In <91ekvb$d0p$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> In article <G5Myv...@kithrup.com>,
> ghar...@kithrup.com (Gharlane of Eddore) said:
>
> > In <91e8nm$pb9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <bekava...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Greetings, salutations and Merry Kwaanza to all!
> >
> > Kwanzaa? Nothing like touting a completely synthesized racist holiday
> > created out of thin air only a few decades back, apparently primarily
> > with the intent of cutting extra income for the merchants involved.
>
> It's always with some trepidation that I enter into disagreement with
> someone like Gharlane -- too much respect for his knowledge _and_ for
> the person -- but...
>
> Shrug. If a holiday succeeds in doing, um, whatever it is that holidays
> are supposed to succeed in doing -- in terms of Christmas-like ones,
> getting families together, giving people the warmfuzzies, etc. -- then I
> don't think that its origins, or its originators' intents, really
> matter[1]. And while it may be racialist, I don't think it's racist.
>
...<Brin reference elided>
My problem with "Kwanzaa" is that its very existence is rooted in
the "separate but equal" philosophy which had been the subject of
a major bit of U.S. Supreme Court action only a couple of years
previously.
It was created as a HOLIDAY FOR "BLACK" PEOPLE, with much of the
same attitude as young kids putting up a "Sekrit Club House,
No Gurls Aloud" --- and at its best seems to me to be a divisive
segregation, and at its worst an insular rejection of the mainstream
of the culture in which its supporters live.
There is ROOM in our society for cultural identity; but the need for
communication, for remembering that there theoretically should be
something going on at the Yule Solstice which is a re-affirmation
of good intent, of hopes for the future, of sharing, of Just Plain
Having A Good Time, has to be born in mind. And the hand-waving
creation, out of thin air, of a Private Holiday apparently created
primarily for Militant Racists, concerns me more than a little.
The "Christians" moved the birthday of their guy several months,
and dropped it nearly on top of the traditional Pagan Celebration
at Yule, in order to compete. ( Think of it as entertainment
counter-programming, moving your best show to a different night
to grab off viewers from another network. ) They even took over
the "Christmas Tree." So what the heck, it's FUN, right?
I have some reactionary Jewish friends who straight-facedly put
up a "Channukah Bush" in the living room at this time of year.
It doesn't mean they don't observe the proper rituals, or that
they fail to go to Temple; it means they're having fun with the
prevalent traditions of the culture in which they live, and their
kids have a lot of fun hanging out the Channukah Lights on the
outside of the house....
Statistically, the vast majority of dark-skinned people who live
in this country adhere to some form of the "Christian" faith;
"Moslem" traditions are a trailing second. For these folks,
"Christmas" is the most common form of celebration, although I
recall a friend who took off a few days because he was involved
in setting up some kind of special Ramadan shindig at his local
Mosque.
But he had a good time in a Santa Claus suit at the Departmental
Christmas Party, and he didn't feel personally violated because
we melanin-challenged types had a holiday that his religion didn't
happen to observe in the same way.
>
> > ( Note the lawsuits levelled against Honky Manufacturers who
> > dared to produce ornaments and accessories in support of
> > the "private holiday." )
>
> Out of curiosity, did any of them survive the initial motions to
> dismiss?
>
The three they covered in class ( this was a law class I took a LONG
time ago, may be more cases since, I dunno! ), the TRO's against
manufacturing/transport/offer for sale were lifted and the cases
dismissed in *two* cases; the third case, the TRO was dropped, and
the case itself "continued" since it was based on a "false advertising"
as well as a "religious harassment" charge. ( The manufacturer had
a snapshot of a dark-skinned employee who was in charge of the product
line on the boxes, and the appellant asserted that this was misleading,
causing purchasers to believe they were buying from a "black company." )
That one was later dropped when the manufacturer terminated the
product line, remarking "I don't need the business badly enough to
deal with those people." Intriguingly, the first two companies had
dropped their lines immediately after their dismissals.
In short, I regard "Kwanzaa" as being approximately as socially
valuable as tax-supported "bilingual education" conducted in
"Black English."
My feeling is that if a rat-pack of insecure idiots wants to create
a private holiday and celebrate it, more power to them; but when
they start putting on public airs over it, they should expect a
few acerbic comments.
And for those whose hackles are rising, please try to remember that
this is my response to what I view as racist behavior on the part
of others, and not necessarily an indictment of my own beliefs and
attitudes.
> [ *snip* ]
>
> > Milady, this is the *wrong* venue in which to issue technical analysis
> > challenges; your technical advisor may be a wonderful human being, a
> > great guy, and have a job at NASA, but there are people on this topic
> > who actually did work in the U.S. space program before he was born,
> > got satellites into orbit using slide rules and early IBM mainframes,
>
> Wouldn't booster rockets have been more efficient?
>
Yeah, but you wouldn't *BELIEVE* how high a Rocket Scientist can jump
when a slide rule is properly applied, especially when you're riding
the updraft from the cooling tower attached to an Early IBM Mainframe.
[ *snip* ]
>
> > The choice of the Official Commonwealth Magical Omni-Weapon, the Magic
> > Staff that shoots lighting bolts and does whatever else is necessary,
> > has obviated the need for a lot of specialized movement training among
> > your acting crew; but those actors who carry L-grip weapons do *not*
> > handle them competently, and probably need some time on the range to
> > learn to feel comfortable with hand weapons.
>
> Given that many of them are probably hand-made props, ghu alone knows
> what the balance in the things is like... That might help to excuse
> the random extras at least, though you're quite right in saying that a
> front-line actor like Ms. Ryder should do, or be made to do, much
> better.
>
Weapons technology has been among the human race's major art forms
for thousands of years; despite the current mania for guns with
rectangular components, that look like cheese boxes stuck on handles,
there is both room and justification for SkiFfy shows to play with
good-looking sidearms. ( Ever seen one of those Freedom Arms
manganese-bronze .50 six-guns? Deep, rich gold color, perfectly
balanced... you can twirl it like a pin-wheel, if you're strong
enough to lift it... Or how about the Whitney "Wolverine," the
.22 pistol from about forty years back that looked like it had
come from sixty years in the future? I once helped out a friend
in dire need of hand-props for a SkiFfy movie by suggesting he use
some of those. Saved him a bundle.... the problem was prying them
loose from the actors so we could return them to the folks we'd
rented them from! )
I think it's hugely intriguing that the only weapons-design breakthroughs
we've seen in TV-SkiFfy in recent years have been the E:FC "Skrill,"
and the multi-purpose "Gauntlets" the ladies in "CLEOPATRA 2525" use.
Don Fagan used to do some wonderful bits of work on a ridiculously
teensy budget when he was involved with "21st Century Film Productions,
Ltd." They used to give him a special credit for "Hand Props."
If he's still alive, he might be worth a phone call.
Or....
There are some good-looking hand-props in "TOTAL RECALL;" perhaps the
folks at "ANDROMEDA" could co-opt a designer or two and still preserve
sufficient Canadian Content as to avoid loss of production revenue.
Travers Naran
"Gharlane of Eddore" <ghar...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:G5n7o...@kithrup.com...
>
> Or....
> There are some good-looking hand-props in "TOTAL RECALL;" perhaps the
> folks at "ANDROMEDA" could co-opt a designer or two and still preserve
> sufficient Canadian Content as to avoid loss of production revenue.
Actually, there are more than a few CanCon-eligible designers who do good
work. It's more a question of why they weren't hired, of if they were
hired, why they aren't being allowed to do the work they really want to.
Believe it or not, Canada does have some designers and artisans who know
something about firearms and other weapons.
Gharlane of Eddore
Dennis Francis Heffernan <dfra...@email.com> wrote:
>
> On 14 Dec 2000 11:50:11 GMT, jmar...@aol.com (JMarien3) wrote:
> >
> > I bailed too after the recent dreadful episode about the prison planet.
> >
>
> That was the second complete episode of the show I had seen
> (I saw part of the Tyr/pirates ep).
> I decided that I was watching the show too often.
> Query: is Hunt SUPPOSED to be a complete asshole? "Don't worry, I'll
> tackle the android!" That's the kind of thing we RPG players joke about
> in Famous Last Words posts....
>
Vociferously agreed. On that note, one of my favorites from my
collection of Amusing .Sig Files:
=======================================================================
|| ||
|| "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" ||
|| ||
|| --- the last words of General John Sedgewick, ||
|| at the Battle Of Spotsylvania, in 1864. ||
|| ||
=======================================================================
recook77
> In <91e8nm$pb9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <bekava...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings, salutations and Merry Kwaanza to all!
> >
>
> Kwanzaa? Nothing like touting a completely synthesized racist
> holiday created out of thin air only a few decades back, apparently
> primarily with the intent of cutting extra income for the merchants
> involved. ( Note the lawsuits levelled against Honky Manufacturers
> who dared to produce ornaments and accessories in support of the
> "private holiday." )
>
> References to "Ramadan," "Channukkah," "Solstice," "Yule,"
> "Christmas," "MidWinter," or even "Ski Season" might have been
> better considered, or at least more likely to elicit a positive
> response.
>
a Seinfeld episode, "Festivus" is now an ice cream flavor, courtesey of Ben
& Jerry's.
C'mon, you'll never see a "Ski Season" or "Yule" ice cream sundae, will you?
--
"God is a very busy god. He may not be there when you want him, but he's
always on time."
Curtis Mayfield
1942-1999
>
David B.
>
> In article <zYt_5.5$sd7....@news.goodnet.com>,
> Paul Vader <p...@mars.mcs.net> wrote:
> >What are they bashing you over the head with? She's the ship's girly-girl.
> >I suppose anyone who loves plants is a left-wing subersive commie?
>
> I think the alleged "bashing the viewer over the head with it" is
> that she's manipulating events, and is far more than the purple
> Valley Girl she appears.
>
> It started off subtle, then had a marvelous "WHACK!" (if not a
> JMSian "WHAM") when she pruned that Bonsai tree. Now we know.
> Smugly controlling the flip of the coin was kind of drifting over
> into "bashing us over the head". "Alright already, we got it."
> I don't fault them too much for this; they want to make sure the
> slower viewers catch on.
There are quite a few slower viewers since I've read many people who
don't get that she was manipulating events.
Gharlane of Eddore
In <j5C_5.27867$FO1.7...@brie.direct.ca>,
Well, I do have to admit that the super-modified Beretta M93 they
came up with for "ROBOCOP" actually looked decent, and I say this
as a long-time despiser of the ergonomics and design insanities
of the Beretta pistols, who's still in a state of shock over the
U.S. military's choice of the M92 as an issue sidearm. ( I firmly
believe that it was a bribe to insure a hospitable political
environment for putting missile bases in Italy, or something along
those lines, but your mileage may vary. )
And I do owe Canadians *some* respect, since a good part of the
start-up funding for "Detonics" was a Canadian investment.... I
just wish they hadn't panicked and pulled out.
But from down here, it looks like you lot are expected to fend off
Grizzly Bears using pointed sticks, and we tend to presume there's
no one up there who knows which end of a cap pistol to grab hold of
when it's time to play cowboys and native americans in the back yard.
Jerry Brown
>I'll accept that the effect was overly dramatic, but it's certainly not as
>painful as watching someone getting an anti-radiation shot every week.
Someone (Dave Langford, IIRC) once said that a vaccination against
assault and battery is more feasible than the above, considering what
radiation actually does to you.
Jerry Brown
--
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
As I said, I'm no expert on female beauty, and I seem to be in the
minority here, but I just personally don't think she's that great. As
for Andromeda, I didn't mean what I said as a compliment. It's one of
the dumber space opera series I've seen.
DA - yes, I liked the darkness too, but it's just not living up to its
promise, and there is a limit to the amount of disbelief I'm willing to
suspend. It has to be internally consistent, and not *too* ridiculous
in its use of known science, and it flunks. I certainly don't mind
shows having sex, but the heat thing just did it for me. Pointless
except to make male viewers go "ooh". And I had thought Cameron was
good at portraying women (Terminator, Aliens, even though less so
Titanic). How involved is he? I mean his name's on it, but Rodenberry's
is on Andromeda, and unless Trance is channeling him....
Lisa
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
>
> |P.S. What was so bad about the prison planet episode anyway? It was
way over
> | the top cliche, but damning the whole episode because of soil
> | chemistry (*alien*, *artificial* soil chemistry I might add) is
> | fanboy stupidity.
>
> What was bad about it was that just about everyone acted like
complete and
> utter morons.
>
Agreed. And of course the technobabble. This show is hitting new
heights with let's take this bit of science and misapply it -
transorters, soil chemistry, batteries. etc. As for their technical
advisor, I thought people working for JPL were extremely smart. So
much for another illusion. Though to be fair to him he may be, and
they are not taking his advice or mangling it.
As for the ratings, sigh, I *know* that Andromeda and DA are getting
good ratings, that's what's so bad. We're so wanting decent SF that
we're watching whatever drek is put out, so the powers that be put out
drek. At least that's the way *I* see it. Other opinions, of course,
welcome.
I'll have to make a concerted effort to look for Stargate. In my one
exposure, it deserves more respect than either of these two. Sadly,
unless we get Showtime,it's on at awful times here.
Lisa Coulter
Endymion9
--
Dennis/Endy
~dancing us from the darkest nights is the rhythm of love powered by the
beating of hearts~
http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm
<ar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3a3ae0fb...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
Endymion9
> minority here, but I just personally don't think she's that great
When I first saw the commercials, I didn't think she was any great beauty
either. Her beauty comes through in her personality and just her bearing.
The way she stands, the way she talks. She's very sexy.
Alison Hopkins
Endymion9 wrote in message <91g3s7$jlq$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>...
>I thought Bruce Boxleiter was going to be in this series? Where is he?
>
Different series, I think, but still a Roddenberry.
Ali
norv...@sirius.com
> And 'A Rose in the Ashes,' an episode I thought was seriously flawed
even though
> I wrote it, garnered a 4.2 rating, the highest total since the pilot.
Ah, Vienna... I hate to ask this, but since just about every aspect of
that episode sucked infinite dead bunnies, why did it get aired at all? I
guess all we can say is "filler". <shudder> I read about how many people
have quit watching because of that ep, and wonder why anyone even bothered
to film it...
Well... I look forward to the rest of the series, hoping it improves...
though, even if it doesn't, I appear to be addicted to watching Cobb and
Sorbo (and Lexa Doig, for that matter). Sigh...
--
norv...@sirius.com
"...To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
<*> "Ulysses" by Tennyson <*>
JMarien3
Eye of the beholder, eye of the beholder ...
>As
>for Andromeda, I didn't mean what I said as a compliment. It's one of
>the dumber space opera series I've seen.
Didb't take it that way. And, yes, I agree on its dumbness. Actually, I think
its greater sin is its boringness, not its dumbness.
>DA - yes, I liked the darkness too, but it's just not living up to its
>promise, and there is a limit to the amount of disbelief I'm willing to
>suspend. It has to be internally consistent, and not *too* ridiculous
>in its use of known science, and it flunks. I certainly don't mind
>shows having sex, but the heat thing just did it for me. Pointless
>except to make male viewers go "ooh". And I had thought Cameron was
>good at portraying women (Terminator, Aliens, even though less so
>Titanic). How involved is he? I mean his name's on it, but Rodenberry's
>is on Andromeda, and unless Trance is channeling him....
>
I don't know of any SF show that gets science right 100% of the time. And I've
grown weary of Treky technobabble. What ridiculous use of science are you
referring to? I can't saw I've seen anything on DA that goes too far over the
top.
Geoduck
(snip)
>I don't know of any SF show that gets science right 100% of the time. And I've
>grown weary of Treky technobabble. What ridiculous use of science are you
>referring to? I can't saw I've seen anything on DA that goes too far over the
>top.
'Splicing in feline DNA' so they can shoot an episode where Max Gets
Horny.
--
Geoduck
http://www.olywa.net/cook
LA...@la.com
>Agreed. And of course the technobabble. This show is hitting new
>heights with let's take this bit of science and misapply it -
>transorters, soil chemistry, batteries. etc. As for their technical
>advisor, I thought people working for JPL were extremely smart. So
>much for another illusion. Though to be fair to him he may be, and
>they are not taking his advice or mangling it.
>
>
>As for the ratings, sigh, I *know* that Andromeda and DA are getting
>good ratings, that's what's so bad.
Andromeda is not pulling good ratings by any stretch of the
imagination (at least in the US). But I guess somehow, with foreign
sales, those awful syndie shows (like E:FC) keep on getting produced.
As for Dark Angel, it's audience has almost shrunk in half so far. I
look for it to hit 5.0 by the end of the season, but unfortunately Fox
is doing so poorly right now it may be wnough to get it renewed. :(
We're so wanting decent SF that
>I'll have to make a concerted effort to look for Stargate. In my one
>exposure, it deserves more respect than either of these two. Sadly,
>unless we get Showtime,it's on at awful times here.
Stargate, while not exactly thrilling is infinitely better than those
two shows.
LA...@la.com
>In article <91e8nm$pb9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, bekava...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> And 'A Rose in the Ashes,' an episode I thought was seriously flawed
>even though
>> I wrote it, garnered a 4.2 rating, the highest total since the pilot.
>
>Ah, Vienna... I hate to ask this, but since just about every aspect of
>that episode sucked infinite dead bunnies, why did it get aired at all? I
>guess all we can say is "filler". <shudder> I read about how many people
>have quit watching because of that ep, and wonder why anyone even bothered
>to film it...
The interesting thing is that (unless there is a special element such
as a guest star or other stunt) it's the episode before it that really
influences the rating.
For instance, the Dark Angel ratings plumetted after the pilot. Does
that mean the pilot was superior to the other shows? No. It means
the pilot sucked enough to turn a lot of the potential audience away.
Travers Naran
I said:
>
> Believe it or not, Canada does have some designers and artisans who
> know something about firearms and other weapons.
"Gharlane of Eddore" <ghar...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
> But from down here, it looks like you lot are expected to fend off
> Grizzly Bears using pointed sticks, and we tend to presume there's
> no one up there who knows which end of a cap pistol to grab hold of
> when it's time to play cowboys and native americans in the back yard.
We prefer to call them "First Nations". Also, we know which end of a cap
pistol to grab. The problem is that today's kids would be going: "Where's
the left mouse button to fire?"
JMarien3
Although splicing in feline genes is in and of itself a bit implausible, given
the premise of the series that she (and others) were genetically enhanced, and
used as a means to explain her cat-like superpowers ... well, to me it falls
into the area of acceptable suspension of disbelief. Using that as a
springboard to to give her some human catnip ... well, I'll still take that
over Trekbabble any day.
O. Deus
> holiday created out of thin air only a few decades back, apparently
It's no more racist than any ethnic or religious holiday and FYI all
holidays are made up. It's just a question of when.
> References to "Ramadan," "Channukkah," "Solstice," "Yule,"
> "Christmas," "MidWinter," or even "Ski Season" might have been
> better considered, or at least more likely to elicit a positive
> response.
If you can't deal with refferences to black people consider moving to
some other country, assuming there is one that will have you.
--
"Hunt: Oh no, now I'm ever so lonely and my mission of restoring the
Commonwealth is nowhere closer to fullfillment. Hey Khan want to join my
crew and work with me towards rebuilding the once and mighty
Commonwealth while experiencing the joy of taking your orders from a
mental defective wearing mauve latex?
Khan: Fool.
Hunt: Wait stay with me, it'll just be the two of us and I just know
we can have great homoerotic chemistry together. KHAAAANNNNN!"
The Mild Annoyance of Khan
Paul Vader
>Many thanks for your analyses. A few notes: Larry Niven says 'hi.'
>(Not really, but we've spoken and he likes our show. And I like his
>books...)
I wasn't making a slight. As I said, if you're going to steal, steal the
good silver.
>Paul Woodmansee, our technical consultant (day job: rocket
>scientist at JPL) challenges all comers to a duel: sliderules at 40
>paces.
Oh yeah? I think his sliderule needs the screws tightened, and it's gotten
a bit warped. The fact that you sometimes get hard bits right (such as
lightspeed delays) doesn't allow you to skate over the other bits.
>Vienna Leather
What's this Vienna Leather stuff? I was assuming (since it only seems to
appear in subject lines posted by people I've killfiled), that it was
another name Theron was trying to apply to someone in the ever increasing
crowd of people beating him up.
>Co-Producer (got a promotion...)
>Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda
>
Ms. Vare I presume? Would you mind giving Robert Wolfe a 'dope slap' in the
back of the head next time you see him? Just on general principles? *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
Paul Vader
>Kwanzaa? Nothing like touting a completely synthesized racist
>holiday created out of thin air only a few decades back, apparently
>involved.
That's bullshit. Go and change your fluids. I would also note that you're
supposed to hand-make your Kwanzaa presents, thus making "extra income" a bit
problematic.
How about taking your own advice and not talking outside your areas of
actual experience? *
Jaime M De Castellvi
displaced) picking up back on the Eddorian for mutual enjoyment...
Gharlane of Eddore <ghar...@kithrup.com> wrote:
: In <j5C_5.27867$FO1.7...@brie.direct.ca>,
: Travers Naran <tna...@direct.ca> wrote:
:>
:> Regarding weapons props in Andromeda.
:> Actually, there are more than a few CanCon-eligible designers who do
:> good work. It's more a question of why they weren't hired, of if they
:> were hired, why they aren't being allowed to do the work they really
:> want to.
:>
:> Believe it or not, Canada does have some designers and artisans who
:> know something about firearms and other weapons.
: Well, I do have to admit that the super-modified Beretta M93 they
: came up with for "ROBOCOP" actually looked decent, and I say this
: as a long-time despiser of the ergonomics and design insanities
: of the Beretta pistols, who's still in a state of shock over the
: U.S. military's choice of the M92 as an issue sidearm. ( I firmly
: believe that it was a bribe to insure a hospitable political
: environment for putting missile bases in Italy, or something along
: those lines, but your mileage may vary. )
: And I do owe Canadians *some* respect, since a good part of the
: start-up funding for "Detonics" was a Canadian investment.... I
: just wish they hadn't panicked and pulled out.
: But from down here, it looks like you lot are expected to fend off
: Grizzly Bears using pointed sticks, and we tend to presume there's
: no one up there who knows which end of a cap pistol to grab hold of
: when it's time to play cowboys and native americans in the back yard.
The point is somewhat moot, however, since we were the ones who displayed
the admirable insight to develop Canadarm, in order to allow Americans to
extend the reach of their grasp to play with themselves and their toys in
space. Likewise, it was under our aegis that the Andromeda "Flight Saber"
came to be, mostly as it seems for another American boy named Kevin to do
more of the same (both Beka and Trance know better than to come anywhere
near one of them thingies).
As to Ms Ryder's posture when brandishing her somewhat dubiously weighted
prop, it seemed consistent with the fact that
a. Props of a very different nature are probably what she is better used
to handling after having donned tight leather accoutrements; and
b. Unlike Americans, Canadians think it more sensible and courteous (not
to mention, more conducive to elliciting a coherent reply) to ask
questions *first* and then shoot (if strictly necessary) later.
Lastly (and I may be wrong since I'm going strictly from memory on this),
did not the actor who plays Seamus appear in that CBC flick of a few years
ago titled _Peacekeepers_, which I once forwarded to you? If memory
serves, he might have played the role of the young Corporal who grabs hold
of his nuts and acts just when a mob is about to get out of control, and
who near the end replaces the pioneer Sarge as acting Platoon
Second-in-Command, after the later runs into a boobytrapped mine. If so,
I'll merely note that he had a passing good grip on both the
carrier-mounted .50 cal and on his personal C-7 (the improved Canadian
version of the M-16).
Proving again that, while it may not be a lifestyle choice for Canucks to
pride themselves in continually fondling their private guns in order to
flaunt a high standard of posture while so doing --like their American
neighbours--, we can handle the business end just fine when the need truly
arises.
Cheers,
Jaime
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
/ Each beltway exit you drive by is one more deathwish left behind, \
/ on the road to the one which lastly takes you home. \
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
I fail to see the difference between this
and "Trekbabble". "Trekbabble" or technobabble more correctly, doesn't
just refer to Star Trek, but to any ridiculous use of science.
Although I'm sure feline mating behavior is largely instinctual, there
is most likely also a behavioral component at work in its determination
(and if not, someone on the net will let me know!) Agility, strength
(not as much) I can buy, though of course she could get those from
appropriate human DNA, but heat? A nice ruse to get the male viewers,
who already think she's *so* cute, all interested; also, frankly,
demeaning to her and *women* - we can't control ourselves, right?
Sorry, this went out sometime a long time ago, and I'm just amazed
Cameron has his name on anything so sexist. And here I'm not talking
about something written 50 years ago when society was different, but
now, when supposedly in some things we've grown up! Scientifically,
even if cat DNA could be spliced with ours, the idea that it would
necessarily give Max the assumed desirable traits, which are probably
controlled by many genes and nurturing as well, is ludicrous. My main
rule on SF is that if you're going to go into technical detail on
something, then you have to get it right. I'll willingly allow time
travel, jump gates, etc, if I'm not confronted with lots of
technobabble pseudoscience explaining them.
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
I'm basing this on part of two episodes I caught, during which I felt
much more strongly for the characters and premise than Andromeda and DA
ever have made me feel. Frankly, as some others have pointed out, I
don't *like* Max, and this makes it hard for me to keep watching DA.
As for Andromeda, the psuedoscience and annoyance of the "oh so
perfect" Dylan just does it. ;) Alas, B5 was a zenith, and it'll be a
long time before we ever see anything that good again.
Lisa Coulter
A Christmas present? Good SF on TV!
David Silberstein
Paul Vader <p...@mars.mcs.net> wrote:
>bekava...@my-deja.com writes:
>>Vienna Leather
>
>What's this Vienna Leather stuff? I was assuming (since it only seems to
>appear in subject lines posted by people I've killfiled), that it was
>another name Theron was trying to apply to someone in the ever increasing
>crowd of people beating him up.
Oh, the Eddorian was somewhat boggled by Ms. Vare's given name of "Ethlie",
(like *he's* one to comment?), and passed the full "Ethlie Ann Vare" thru
the Sekret Codec Anagramatron(tm). "Vienna Leather" was just one of many
that were generated, but Ms. Vare, being an officially High-Class and
Witty Person, decided she liked it, and adopted it as her /nom de guerre/.
>>Co-Producer (got a promotion...)
>>Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda
>Ms. Vare I presume? Would you mind giving Robert Wolfe a 'dope slap' in the
>back of the head next time you see him? Just on general principles?
One for me as well.
Heck, as Story Editor (before her promotion), maybe she should give one
to *herself*.
--
David S
"Nor are stuff and work unakin. Rather, they are groundwise the same, and
one can be shifted into the other. The kinship between them is that work
Pål Are Nordal
Woo hoo! It's happening already!
> I was assuming (since it only seems to
> appear in subject lines posted by people I've killfiled), that it was
> another name Theron was trying to apply to someone in the ever increasing
> crowd of people beating him up.
That would presume Theron was actually capable of coming up with new material.
--
Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/
Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
David Johnston
And, strictly speaking, I _would_ expect a purpose driven massive
genetic engineering project to yield a wide variety of side effects.
That this one happened to have prurient qualities doesn't make it
inherently implausible and I seriously doubt that Max actually knows
precisely what caused it. Sounds more like speculation to me.
Tom Holt
from =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l?= Are Nordal <a_b...@bigfoot.com>
contains these words:
> Paul Vader wrote:
> > I was assuming (since it only seems to
> > appear in subject lines posted by people I've killfiled), that it was
> > another name Theron was trying to apply to someone in the ever increasing
> > crowd of people beating him up.
> That would presume Theron was actually capable of coming up with new material.
Where is Theron, anyhow? I hope his sudden absence from this forum
doesn't mean the Pentagon computers are all down. That could be a tad
worrying...
recook77
news:91iu25$14j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
B5? Is that one of the Phantom Menace robots? ;)
--
"God is a very busy god. He may not be there when you want him, but he's
always on time."
Curtis Mayfield
1942-1999
William December Starr
lisa_c...@my-deja.com said:
> Agreed. And of course the technobabble. This show is hitting new
> heights with let's take this bit of science and misapply it -
> transorters, soil chemistry, batteries. etc.
How does one misapply transporter science? :-)
Seriously, the Powers That Be really *did* fuck up badly by not
throwing in something like:
HARPER: "Of course, the [name of Chin People's species] have only got
this 'cheat sheet' worked out for when you're right on top of a massive
gravity field that sort of squashes out a lot of the variables--"
HUNT: "So you've built a working matter transmitter, but it'll only work
while we're parked right next to a black hole."
HARPER: "Um, yeah, well, so far, anyway."
...thereby *explaining* why this incredible breakthrough invention is
probably never going to be seen in the show again, while at the same
time not _absolutely_ ruling out its further use. Sigh.
-- William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
O. Deus
> Cameron has his name on anything so sexist. And here I'm not talking
> about something written 50 years ago when society was different, but
You're amazed that Cameron would put his name on something so sexist?
You are familiar with True Lies, aren't you?
O. Deus
> don't *like* Max, and this makes it hard for me to keep watching DA.
> As for Andromeda, the psuedoscience and annoyance of the "oh so
> perfect" Dylan just does it. ;) Alas, B5 was a zenith, and it'll be a
> long time before we ever see anything that good again.
Actually B5 was a nadir, you don't get much lower than dressing up your
second in command as a prostitute (talk about sexism) and TNT...which is
a form of prostitution in and of itself.
manfr...@my-deja.com
dav...@kithrup.com (David Silberstein) wrote:
> In article <hxY_5.122
Vienna leather is a club for sexy men in leather
for private action for adults.
Let me be Your lover mi...@vds.at
JMarien3
>I fail to see the difference between this
>and "Trekbabble". "Trekbabble" or technobabble more correctly, doesn't
>just refer to Star Trek, but to any ridiculous use of science.
<SNIP>
>A nice ruse to get the male viewers,
>who already think she's *so* cute, all interested; also, frankly,
>demeaning to her and *women* - we can't control ourselves, right?
<SNIP>
>My main
>rule on SF is that if you're going to go into technical detail on
>something, then you have to get it right. I'll willingly allow time
>travel, jump gates, etc, if I'm not confronted with lots of
>technobabble pseudoscience explaining them.
>
As another poster noted in reply, Max doesn't know herself completely how and
why she was genetically enhanced, much less what effects it has (and will have)
on her. So who knows for sure if her explanation was right or not: i.e.,
whether her horniness came from slicing in cat genes or from some other
thing(s).
In any case, I agree with your notion that "if you're going to go into
technical detail on something, then you have to get it right". And there was no
technical detail given, only the tossing out of a line or two, as I recall.
Given the underlying context of the show (i.e., genetic manipulation), this all
falls within my own "suspension of disbelief" sphere.
Note that slicing in cat genes is fundamentally the same as what was done in
Jurassic Park, wherein frog genes were used to fill in the gaps of the dinosaur
genes.
(Side note/question: on average, how many times is something "remodulated" in
an episode of TrekBlah?)
I think your comments on this all has more to do more with sexism than with
science. Sorry, but I did not find it particularly sexist, and I guess we will
have to agree to disagree here.
But let's not lose sight of how this discussion got here. It started when
another poster commented that he was bailing on Andromeda. I jumped in, saying
that, with the recent dreadful episode of the prison planet, I was bailing too;
I then said that, for my money, DA was the best new SF series on TV. Now, even
assuming that I agreed that this whole cat-gene-slicing thing is indeed
Trekbabble, then that's still only one episode, and I still posit that DA is a
better show than others on the whole---and specifically Andromedia, as that's
the subject of the original post of this thread.
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
I have to admit, this would have been better. What I was referring to
was the "quantum entanglement" and "quntum teleportation" stuff. A
similar argument to what IIRC was presented in the show was debunked in
Scientific American. When they are attemping to act "very smart" and
then misuse something like that - it's irritating.
Lisa
LA...@la.com
>
>I'm basing this on part of two episodes I caught, during which I felt
>much more strongly for the characters and premise than Andromeda and DA
>ever have made me feel. Frankly, as some others have pointed out, I
>don't *like* Max, and this makes it hard for me to keep watching DA.
>As for Andromeda, the psuedoscience and annoyance of the "oh so
>perfect" Dylan just does it. ;) Alas, B5 was a zenith, and it'll be a
>long time before we ever see anything that good again.
Maybe if JMS takes a long, long vacation and comes back not believing
his press. :)
James C. Ellis
>
[re: _Dark Angel_]
>
> I don't know of any SF show that gets science right 100% of the time.
> And I've grown weary of Treky technobabble. What ridiculous use of
> science are you referring to? I can't saw I've seen anything on DA
> that goes too far over the top.
This might be a minor plot element, but right off the top of my head
how about that blood type nonsense from the last episode. They raised a
great kaffuffle about wosshisname being AB-, "the rarest type there is",
and thus in a critical state when he needed a transfusion. The thing is
that (if we ignore exotic factors for simplicity's sake) someone who is
AB- could receive blood from _anyone_ who is also RH negative, which
amounts to iirc 40% of the populace. He's practically the universal
recipient (AB+) for chrissakes!
Then, they went and made Max (and all of the other Manticoran's)
"universal donors" for the purposes of battlefield transfusions. If I
were behind this organization, I would make them universal recipients
instead. Who cares if your supersoldier can help save any schmoe? Far
better that any schmoe can provide the blood to save one of your
six-billion dollar men. (I also suspect that the Manticorans would have
additional exotic factors that would prevent them from being universal
donors in any event.)
This kind of stuff is pretty trivial, but betrays a contempt for
science. It would have taken them two seconds to consult someone to get
these details right, but fuck no, not today thank-you-kindly. Pshaw!
Biff
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Me? Lady, I'm your worst nightmare - a pumpkin with a gun.
[...] Euminides this! " - Mervyn, the Sandman #66
-------------------------------------------------------------------
bekava...@my-deja.com
norv...@sirius.com wrote:
> In article <91e8nm$pb9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, bekava...@my-deja.com
wrote:
> > And 'A Rose in the Ashes,' an episode I thought was seriously flawed
> even though
> > I wrote it, garnered a 4.2 rating, the highest total since the
pilot.
>
> Ah, Vienna... I hate to ask this, but since just about every aspect of
> that episode sucked infinite dead bunnies, why did it get aired at
all? I
> guess all we can say is "filler". <shudder> I read about how many
people
> have quit watching because of that ep, and wonder why anyone even
bothered
> to film it...
improves...
> though, even if it doesn't, I appear to be addicted to watching Cobb
and
> Sorbo (and Lexa Doig, for that matter). Sigh...
>
> --
> norv...@sirius.com
> "...To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
> <*> "Ulysses" by Tennyson <*>
>
It cost more than a million bucks to make, and the network executives
(obviously raised by Depression-era parents) just couldn't bear to
throw it away.
Also, I should take back the gauntlet I tossed on Woodmansee's behalf
and without his consent. There's much scientific nitpickery that gets
bent out of shape by production and story contraints - he pulls his
hair out over it, but in the end what Props giveth, SFX taketh away.
BTW, we go on hiatus in a couple of days and I will be on a
phone/fax/internet-less island. So if you don't hear from me, I'm not
blowing you off. At least, not you personally...
Ethlie Ann "Vienna Leather" Vare
Team Andromeda
lisa_c...@my-deja.com
A truly evil one, responsible for the lamentable deaths of Jar Jar and
Wesley (sorry, wrong show :)) as well as Byron's tragic loss of his oh
so fair locks....
Lisa
> --
> "God is a very busy god. He may not be there when you want him, but
he's
> always on time."
>
> Curtis Mayfield
> 1942-1999
>
>
JMarien3
Yea, I noticed the blood type stuff too. But I still like the show.
O. Deus
> "universal donors" for the purposes of battlefield transfusions. If I
> were behind this organization, I would make them universal recipients
> instead. Who cares if your supersoldier can help save any schmoe? Far
> better that any schmoe can provide the blood to save one of your
>
Or they can do both, which would allow them with their advanced
metabolism to be used as portable walking blood banks...which could come
in handy on the battlefield.
O. Deus
> Jurassic Park, wherein frog genes were used to fill in the gaps of the dinosaur
> genes.
And here as there it would obviously not produce frog charachteristics
such as hermaphordism.
> (Side note/question: on average, how many times is something "remodulated" in
> an episode of TrekBlah?)
About as many times as things are transfused on an episode of ER. All
fields have their own technical lingo.
Now, even
> assuming that I agreed that this whole cat-gene-slicing thing is indeed
> Trekbabble, then that's still only one episode, and I still posit that DA is a
> better show than others on the whole---and specifically Andromedia, as that's
> the subject of the original post of this thread.
Forty two minutes of static is still a better episode than Andromeda,
that ain't much of a defense of dark angel.
James C. Ellis
>
> > Then, they went and made Max (and all of the other Manticoran's)
> > "universal donors" for the purposes of battlefield transfusions. If
> > I were behind this organization, I would make them universal
> > recipients instead. Who cares if your supersoldier can help save
> > any schmoe? Far better that any schmoe can provide the blood to
>
> Or they can do both, which would allow them with their advanced
> metabolism to be used as portable walking blood banks...which could
> come in handy on the battlefield.
And how do you propose they do both? Biology isn't your strong suit,
eh Odie?
David Silberstein
James C. Ellis <ell...@cadvision.com> wrote:
>O. Deus wrote:
>>
>> > Then, they went and made Max (and all of the other Manticoran's)
>> > "universal donors" for the purposes of battlefield transfusions. If
>> > I were behind this organization, I would make them universal
>> > recipients instead. Who cares if your supersoldier can help save
>> > any schmoe? Far better that any schmoe can provide the blood to
>> > save one of your six billion dollar men.
>>
>> Or they can do both, which would allow them with their advanced
>> metabolism to be used as portable walking blood banks...which could
>> come in handy on the battlefield.
>
> And how do you propose they do both? Biology isn't your strong suit,
>eh Odie?
Well, IANAB (or an MD either), but I can refresh my knowledge with a
web search:
(http://daphne.palomar.edu/blood/ABO_system.htm)
Might it not be possible to create a blood type that had neither
the A or B antigens, or the anti-A or anti-B antibodies? And no
RH factor, either, of course.
Incidentally, I didn't find the setup that caused the scene convincing -
by 2019, I think it will be fairly easy to clone blood, so there should
be no shortages in the first place.
--
David S
"Nor are stuff and work unakin. Rather, they are groundwise the same, and
one can be shifted into the other. The kinship between them is that work
is like unto weight manifolded by the fourside of the haste of light.
-- Poul Anderson, "Uncleftish Beholding"
James C. Ellis
>
[re: making a supersoldier a simultaneous universal donor/acceptor]
> Might it not be possible to create a blood type that had neither
> the A or B antigens, or the anti-A or anti-B antibodies? And no
> RH factor, either, of course.
AFAIK (IANAE), the antibodies would develop on their own in response
to encountering 'foreign' blood that contains the A or B antigens. I
would hesitate about mucking with this because disabling a body's
defense systems is seldom A Good Thing, especially for a supersoldier.
Besides, I still think that it is foolish to turn such rare and
expensive individuals into walking blood banks. Being used as such
would weaken them unnecessarily and give a negligible but real chance of
losing one due to medical misadventure. Trading a supersoldier for a
schmuck is rarely A Good Thing.
> Incidentally, I didn't find the setup that caused the scene convincing
> - by 2019, I think it will be fairly easy to clone blood, so there
> should be no shortages in the first place.
Well don't forget that a single nuke turned the US into "a third world
nation" for more than a decade. It's possible that such technology
simply doesn't exist in the US, though as you say it should be
commonplace by that time (I don't think I'll make my goal of 1000
donations for that very reason; the very notion of a blood donor will be
obsolete within the next 20 years).
Chad Irby
> Incidentally, I didn't find the setup that caused the scene convincing -
> by 2019, I think it will be fairly easy to clone blood, so there should
> be no shortages in the first place.
Well, considering the overall level of working tech in the show, I'm
pretty sure I wouldn't want to rely on something that complex...
--
Chad Irby \ My greatest fear: that future generations will,
ci...@cfl.rr.com \ for some reason, refer to me as an "optimist."
Nyrath the nearly wise
> Weapons technology has been among the human race's major art forms
> for thousands of years; despite the current mania for guns with
> rectangular components, that look like cheese boxes stuck on handles,
> there is both room and justification for SkiFfy shows to play with
> good-looking sidearms. ( Ever seen one of those Freedom Arms
> manganese-bronze .50 six-guns? Deep, rich gold color, perfectly
> balanced... you can twirl it like a pin-wheel, if you're strong
> enough to lift it... Or how about the Whitney "Wolverine," the
> .22 pistol from about forty years back that looked like it had
> come from sixty years in the future? I once helped out a friend
> in dire need of hand-props for a SkiFfy movie by suggesting he use
> some of those. Saved him a bundle.... the problem was prying them
> loose from the actors so we could return them to the folks we'd
> rented them from! )
Great galloping galaxies!
I was intrigued by your post enough to do a web search,
and stumbled onto
http://www.recguns.com/Images/whitney.jpg
( in http://www.recguns.com/handgunImages.html )
You're right, that is one seriously futuristic looking gun.
Light years beyond the pathetic props that are standard
SkiFfy fare.
I want one, but if only 22,000 were made, and the last
one in 1957, I'm sure they are way out of my price range.
Blast, and I had just about got myself cured of an
obsession to own an MBT Gyrojet...
O. Deus
> I was intrigued by your post enough to do a web search,
> and stumbled onto
> http://www.recguns.com/Images/whitney.jpg
> ( in http://www.recguns.com/handgunImages.html )
>
> You're right, that is one seriously futuristic looking gun.
> Light years beyond the pathetic props that are standard
> SkiFfy fare.
Oh yeah that really looks as if it came from the future, maybe a future
where all the technology looks just like it did in 1950 but nowhere
else. Even the dustbuster phaser is a more plausible weapon.
Gharlane of Eddore
Discussing "spacey-looking" hand-prop sidearms, in reference
to the Whitney "Wolverine" ( or its differently-named
predecessors and successors ),
In <3A401455...@clark.net>,
Nyrath the nearly wise <nyr...@clark.net> wrote:
>
> Great galloping galaxies!
> I was intrigued by your post enough to do a web search,
> and stumbled onto
> http://www.recguns.com/Images/whitney.jpg
> ( in http://www.recguns.com/handgunImages.html )
>
> You're right, that is one seriously futuristic looking gun.
> Light years beyond the pathetic props that are standard
> SkiFfy fare.
>
Yep. That was why I suggested it, and we cruised around
finding copies we could rent for a cheap production.
>
> I want one, but if only 22,000 were made, and the last
> one in 1957, I'm sure they are way out of my price range.
>
Well, if you live in a civilized state, where you can just
order one, pay for it, and have it shipped to a local dealer
who will do the background check and legal transfer to you,
just check out the on-line auctions... I see them go by
occasionally, prices ranging from a couple of hundred to
over a grand, depending on condition. Note that with a
roughly 4.5" barrel, it's no more inherently accurate than
a short-barrel Colt Woodsman or Hi-Standard, just more fun
to have; you're buying cosmetics rather than engineering.
( Although the guys who designed it were fairly original
and clever, and the mechanics are interesting and
relatively unique; it's certainly a decent piece of
hardware, it just wasn't able to compete, either
because of its looks, or the fact that it was about
the only thing the company was making. )
The design was manufactured from 1955 to 1963, and there were
a *lot* more than 22,000 made, because it was a nice cheap
alternative to the more expensive Colts, Hi-Standards,
and Brownings for rimfire match shooting. ( The best
competition .22's of that era were early Hammerli's, and
intriguingly enough, some *REALLY* spacey-looking ones
that the Russian Olympic Team fielded for the first time
in front of a stadium full of hugely intimidated onlookers;
electrical ignition, barrel *under* the hand, and so forth.
Upset the heck out of a number of judges and onlookers..
nobody *ever* thought of using one of them for a SkiFfy-movie
hand prop, because they just didn't look dangerous.. )
>
> Blast, and I had just about got myself cured of an
> obsession to own an MBT Gyrojet...
>
Note to non-techies who've bothered to read this far;
the "GyroJet" was a brilliantly innovative and largely
useless small-arms design from the middle and late
sixties. The core of the invention was a bullet which
was really an itty-bitty rocket with small angled
nozzles in a circle around the main nozzle, to spin
it in flight for gyroscopic stability; it wasn't fired
through a barrel, but rather an open-framework kind
of a tubular rack that was intended to keep it pointed
in roughly the right direction until it was moving
fast enough and spinning fast enough to keep going
in a straight line.
*BAD* choice. Main reason is: the feds ain't *never*
gonna let anyone gear up to make any more ammo for them,
and the ammo cost a buck and a half a shot *THEN, and
hand-reloading is beyond the capacity of the home
munitioneer.
And the single worst indictment of the design is that it's
USELESS for anything but a TV/movie prop; close to the
barrel, it's moving so slowly you can stop it with a
raised hand, far enough away that the burn is complete
and velocity is high enough to be effective, it's spent
so much time bouncing around while accelerating that
you're incredibly lucky to hold a group tighter than
ten feet (radius!) at 100 yards. ( I was part of the
Army evaluation group that tried them out extensively
and wrote the reports, at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in
the sixties. We did find a rifle configuration that
managed to hold about a three-foot (diameter) group
at 100 yards, but if the barrel frame wasn't sandbagged
to keep flexure down, it spread... )
I'm sure we'll have something very much like that
some day, if only for chipping samples off potentially
valuable metallic asteroids, since such projectiles
can be launched without much recoil in a zero-gee
environment... but the original version is a
frame-it-and-hang-it-over-the-mantelpiece device.
GREAT fun, wonderful engineering, one of the finest
toys ever created for overgrown little boys with money
to burn. If you want to buy one, there's a dealer
in Reno, NV. who's got one of the GJ pistols, and about
a dozen possibly still live rounds.
Note that the so-called "Gun Control Act of 1968"
terminated production of their larger ammo, since
13 mm and up were a bit over the new .50 caliber limit;
apparently the feds were willing to apply the silly
new bullet-size laws to small rockets. *snicker*
=================================================================
|| ||
|| "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" ||
|| ||
|| --- the last words of General John Sedgewick, ||
|| at the Battle Of Spotsylvnia, in 1864. ||
|| ||
=================================================================
David Silberstein
>>
>
> [re: making a supersoldier a simultaneous universal donor/acceptor]
>
>> Might it not be possible to create a blood type that had neither
>> the A or B antigens, or the anti-A or anti-B antibodies? And no
>> RH factor, either, of course.
>
> AFAIK (IANAE), the antibodies would develop on their own in response
>to encountering 'foreign' blood that contains the A or B antigens. I
>would hesitate about mucking with this because disabling a body's
>defense systems is seldom A Good Thing, especially for a supersoldier.
Not disabling the immune system, but making it smarter. As far as I
can tell, the body's reaction to the A and B proteins is an example
of its design flaws/malfunctions, like allergies and such. Making
it recognize certain things - especially the A & B proteins, but also
other substances, such as potential allergens - as "harmless" would
be a Good Thing, IMO.
You'd also want to make it smarter against rapidly mutating viruses,
bacilli and parasites (I just read an article in Discover, which
explained that the sleeping sickness parasite (which is actually larger
than red blood cells!) defeats the immune system by changing the
proteins of its skin as it reproduces in waves in the host).
(http://www.discover.com/oct_00/featvital.html)
But I have no idea how you might go about doing it, of course.
> Besides, I still think that it is foolish to turn such rare and
>expensive individuals into walking blood banks. Being used as such
>would weaken them unnecessarily and give a negligible but real chance of
>losing one due to medical misadventure. Trading a supersoldier for a
>schmuck is rarely A Good Thing.
Granted. Universal Recipient is a smarter tactical choice for your elite
troops (e.g., in the field, you'd rather have a grunt donating a pint
(and consequentially be somewhat less effective) to a supersoldier than
lose the effectiveness of one supersoldier in donating to another.)
(Which is what you already said, of course)
>> Incidentally, I didn't find the setup that caused the scene convincing
>> - by 2019, I think it will be fairly easy to clone blood, so there
>> should be no shortages in the first place.
>
> Well don't forget that a single nuke turned the US into "a third world
>nation" for more than a decade. It's possible that such technology
>simply doesn't exist in the US, though as you say it should be
>commonplace by that time
I've noticed that they've been pretty inconsistant in their portrayal of
the level of technology (I'm thinking of the police station with their
all-digital prisoner processing equipment - and their completely
ridiculous prison).
But more importantly, Seattle-2019 is still an important enough place
that bioengineering seminars are held there, and some pretty wealthy
and powerful people (of which Logan Cale is one) live there. I'd
think that they would make sure that the local hospitals had high
quality medtech, if only so that their own interests were served.
Even if only the swankiest of private hospitals have such good
technology - Logan should have been in such a one. With a private
room, too.
> (I don't think I'll make my goal of 1000 donations for that very
> reason; the very notion of a blood donor will be
>obsolete within the next 20 years).
Gharlane of Eddore
In <G5uun...@kithrup.com>,
Gharlane of Eddore <ghar...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
> Discussing "spacey-looking" hand-prop sidearms, in reference
> to the Whitney "Wolverine" ( or its differently-named
> predecessors and successors ),
>
In <3A401455...@clark.net>,
Nyrath the nearly wise <nyr...@clark.net> wrote:
>
> Great galloping galaxies!
> I was intrigued by your post enough to do a web search,
> and stumbled onto
> http://www.recguns.com/Images/whitney.jpg
> ( in http://www.recguns.com/handgunImages.html )
>
> You're right, that is one seriously futuristic looking gun.
> Light years beyond the pathetic props that are standard
> SkiFfy fare.
>
I just got a chance to check that on-line picture you URL'd
for us.... note that the picture is one of the blued/anodized
models; the ones you want to use as hand-props in SkiFfy
movies are the stainless-steel and passivation-anodized ones,
a creamy silvery color with iridescent rainbow highlights.
( some production runs used a magnesium-aluminum alloy shroud
which wouldn't take bluing, but anodized nicely, in some very
pretty colors. )
Nyrath the nearly wise
> Note to non-techies who've bothered to read this far;
> the "GyroJet" was a brilliantly innovative and largely
> useless small-arms design from the middle and late
> sixties.
> Army evaluation group that tried them out extensively
> and wrote the reports, at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in
> the sixties. We did find a rifle configuration that
> managed to hold about a three-foot (diameter) group
> at 100 yards, but if the barrel frame wasn't sandbagged
> to keep flexure down, it spread... )
Ah!
I once visited the U.S. Army Ordnance museum at Aberdeen.
I was quite facinated by the rifle version of the Gyrojet
they had on display. Looked like a bad SciFi B-movie
prop. I seem to remember fins on the barrel that
were reminiscent of Buck Roger's disintegrator pistol.
(the art deco Buck Roger's XZ-38 Disintegrator pistol
produced in 1935 by the Daisy company. Go to
http://www.toyraygun.com/galleryindex.html
and click on "the Ray Guns of Buck Rogers")
(Alas, I could not find a photo of the rifle gyrojet)
Paul Vader
> ( I was part of the
> Army evaluation group that tried them out extensively
> and wrote the reports, at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in
> the sixties. We did find a rifle configuration that
I never thought I'd be perpetuating a gun thread, but since there's actual
SF references, I've always wondered a bit about the Gyrojet.
The stated benefit was that the thrust was developed outside the barrel,
greatly reducing recoil and increasing max projectile speed. But how did his
work? The 'bullet' would have to be moving fast when it left the launcher's
rails, or it would drop like a stone to the floor before enough thrust was
built up. Also, the burnout time would have to be really short or you'd
risk starting fires if you missed. A short boost time means recoil, so
you're back where you started.
I'm sort of visualizing this as a Estes midget rocket with a lead nose cone,
launched while holding the stand, and it's not a pretty picture. Was it
fired electrically, like target pistols often are these days? Solid rocket
propellant with an attached primer isn't something that you'd want to carry
around in your pocket! *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
Nyrath the nearly wise
> I'm sort of visualizing this as a Estes midget rocket with a lead nose cone,
> launched while holding the stand, and it's not a pretty picture. Was it
> fired electrically, like target pistols often are these days? Solid rocket
> propellant with an attached primer isn't something that you'd want to carry
> around in your pocket! *
I don't know much about it, but....
The "bullet" had 4 jets on the back, angled so as to spin
the projectile without rifling.
The primer was in the customary place.
The hammer of the pistol hit the *nose* of the projectile,
which forced it onto a stationary firing pin.
As the projectile flew out the barrel, it forced the
hammer back, cocking the gun for the next round.
A lever protruding from the side of the gun allows
manual cocking of the hammer.
I've heard that the body of the gun looks like tin toy,
but the barrel is composed of some exotic alloy, since
it undergoes more stress than your average sidearm.
Gharlane of Eddore
In <o2v06.151$0p.2...@news.goodnet.com>,
( Estes Model Rockets? You have good taste in toys.
Did you know that G. Harry Stine ( SF writer and engineer, note )
had to go all the way to the U.S. Congress to get *federal* statutes
in place that would allow the model rocket industry to exist?
Many places were trying to classify them as "explosives" or "Illegal
Fireworks." )
The primary nozzle on a GyroJet projectile was dead-center in the
rear, and had a very slightly recessed impact-sensitive primer in
it; the pressure spike as the fuel grain fired ( as well as the
temperature ) unsealed the six itty-bitty nozzle-ettes around it,
which were drilled at an angle to generate spin....
The back-wash from the primary jet was used to re-set the triggering
mechanism, and kick another projectile into the "chamber."
( I believe I heard talk of a low-cyclic-rate full-auto version,
but never saw one, dunno if one was built, or just speculation. )
The primary trick for avoidance of recoil effects was that the
barrels of the weapons were open lattices, allowing the exhaust
gases to escape in all directions. In practice, it proved
beneficial to insist on a clear pane of polycarbonate behind the
breech, so that all that rearward-flying stuff didn't pit your
expensive shooting glasses. ( Not to mention tattooing your cheeks,
and in one case, with a "hang-fire" stuck in the barrel, carbonizing
an evaluator's eyebrows. )
( Also, in practice, it was a very difficult weapon to use in a
covert fashion; even the crude near-infrared conversion systems
and first-generation "starlight" amplifiers we had back then made
the use of GyroJets a dubiously survivable operation, at least on
the battlefield. )
The company also experimented with powered flechettes, fuse
(as opposed to "fuze") detonated and electrically detonated...
one of these models was specifically designed to be embedded
in a cigaret, which would then presumably be aimed at the
target and held on target until the Itty-Bitty Thingie went
off. ( I *think* I remember a spec of twenty feet for the
ciggie-rocket to complete its burn and reach full impact
energy. I *do* remember the ( volunteer ) Tester griping,
"I'm supposed to hold a cigaret on target at THAT distance?
Hey, I'm good with my lips, but that's ridiculous. "
One of the Gismos we evaluated was a replacement for the
classic "Claymore" Mine; a bundle of electrically triggered
GyroJet flechettes about the same size and shape as a
Claymore. The Old Cavalry Guy who honchoed that committee
downchecked the design because, unlike the Claymore, you
didn't have the option of spread-fire or focussed-fire,
depending on how you pointed it and rigged the detonator.
( The GJ Company Rep said it would be *easy* to produce a
flexible launch rack that could be flexed from concave
to convex, and put a marked adjustment rail on it to
allow the folks using it to pick precisely the spread
they wanted... but the honcho had him out in the cold by
then. )
After it finally began to become apparent ( even to suit-wearing
Harvard Children from the TLA organizations, who'd been raised
on stupid James Bond novels instead of Wild Bill Donovan's
sitreps.... ) that
(A) intelligence-gathering is *not* best conducted by cowboys
with gadgets; and
(B) operations are best conducted by minimally-armed paranoids
skulking in the shadows with nice quiet un-traceable blunt
instruments or edged weapons.... .
....Official Interest in the technology waned.
Don't get me wrong, I think the technology was brilliant,
innovative, and potentially hugely valuable.
I'd *LOVE* to own one, even though I couldn't even shoot it
due to lack of ammo.
But the present implementation of the tech and engineering
is approximately as useful as that all-time classic, the
Gabbett-Fairfax "Mars" automatic pistol.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"No officer, having once fired this weapon, could be
induced to fire it a second time."
---- possibly apocryphal report from the review
committee tasked with evaluating the "Mars."
Nyrath the nearly wise
Gharlane of Eddore
On GyroJets,
In <3A429E5B...@clark.net>,
Nyrath the nearly wise <nyr...@clark.net> wrote:
>
> I don't know much about it, but....
>
> The "bullet" had 4 jets on the back, angled so as to spin
> the projectile without rifling.
> The primer was in the customary place.
> The hammer of the pistol hit the *nose* of the projectile,
> which forced it onto a stationary firing pin.
> As the projectile flew out the barrel, it forced the
> hammer back, cocking the gun for the next round.
> A lever protruding from the side of the gun allows
> manual cocking of the hammer.
>
> I've heard that the body of the gun looks like tin toy,
> but the barrel is composed of some exotic alloy, since
> it undergoes more stress than your average sidearm.
>
This is substantially correct, except for the description
of the barrel; the best ones I/we saw were open lattice
frames, with either four or six polished internal linear
ridges to keep the projectile roughly centered..... but
hollow tubes with lots of holes drilled in the sides
became standard for production. I'm not aware of any
great stress the barrel undergoes, since it's just there
to keep the ammo pointed in the right direction while it
gets up to speed. ( But I'm open to correction by anyone
knowledgeable on the design. )
( My earlier posting referenced prototypes that used
cocking and triggering mechanisms *behind* the ammo;
your nose-striking mech was the general-production
version, the commonest seen. It was our belief that
the nose-striking version, which depended on the ammo
pushing mechanisms around on its way down the barrel,
was, while mechanically simpler, inherently debilitating
to accuracy and fast velocity buildup in the barrel. )
Note: The larger ammo used six angled jets for the spin
nozzles, and one primary, central nozzle; they used four
jets, and even just three jets, on smaller ammo, at first in
prototypes, and then for the 13 mm "production" models.
( At least going by the samples I saw, and got to shoot.)
I recall that, at one point, they arbitrarily decided it
was a ".49 caliber" weapon, probably in an attempt to avoid
hassle from the silly GCA '68 limitations. Manufacturing in
San Ramon, California, with all the legal hassles inherent
in making firearms in the Grand and Glorious People's Republic
of California, was also probably not a good idea....
I'm trying to remember the names of the two guys who invented
it; Germanic-sounding. I think one was "Biehl."
"MB Engineering?" Would that be right? I'm pretty sure about
"MB" or "M & B," and "San Ramon."
Biggest problem with the gismos were that they had the impact
energy of a pistol, at rifle ranges; and the accuracy of a
pistol, at rifle ranges. Those square-backed slugs slowed
down *really* fast after the first couple hundred yards, and
since the *entire* shell went down-range, there was a lot more
hollow there, resulting in poor sectional density, and more
drag effect than you'd see with an equivalent-mass solid slug.
Great design, genius-grade implementation, a harbinger of the
future; just not quite there yet.
James Gassaway
:
<snip>
:
: The primary trick for avoidance of recoil effects was that the
: gases to escape in all directions. In practice, it proved
: beneficial to insist on a clear pane of polycarbonate behind the
: breech, so that all that rearward-flying stuff didn't pit your
: expensive shooting glasses. ( Not to mention tattooing your cheeks,
: and in one case, with a "hang-fire" stuck in the barrel, carbonizing
: an evaluator's eyebrows. )
:
: ( Also, in practice, it was a very difficult weapon to use in a
: covert fashion; even the crude near-infrared conversion systems
: and first-generation "starlight" amplifiers we had back then made
: the use of GyroJets a dubiously survivable operation, at least on
: the battlefield. )
:
: The company also experimented with powered flechettes, fuse
: (as opposed to "fuze") detonated and electrically detonated...
: one of these models was specifically designed to be embedded
: in a cigaret, which would then presumably be aimed at the
: target and held on target until the Itty-Bitty Thingie went
: off. ( I *think* I remember a spec of twenty feet for the
: ciggie-rocket to complete its burn and reach full impact
: energy. I *do* remember the ( volunteer ) Tester griping,
: "I'm supposed to hold a cigaret on target at THAT distance?
: Hey, I'm good with my lips, but that's ridiculous. "
ROFLMAO. I just have one question. Was this before or after the previous
tester lost his eyebrows?
--
Duty, Honor, Service.
If you can't respect the men, at least respect their sacrifice.
William December Starr
ghar...@kithrup.com (Gharlane of Eddore) said:
> Biggest problem with the gismos were that they had the impact
> energy of a pistol, at rifle ranges; and the accuracy of a
> pistol, at rifle ranges. Those square-backed slugs slowed
> down *really* fast after the first couple hundred yards, and
> since the *entire* shell went down-range, there was a lot more
> hollow there, resulting in poor sectional density, and more
> drag effect than you'd see with an equivalent-mass solid slug.
Did they ever experiment with -- even just on paper -- multi-stage
designs? Or at least something that jettisoned the used-up booster
stage?
William December Starr
ghar...@kithrup.com (Gharlane of Eddore) said:
> The company also experimented with powered flechettes, fuse
> (as opposed to "fuze") detonated and electrically detonated...
> one of these models was specifically designed to be embedded
> in a cigaret, which would then presumably be aimed at the
> target and held on target until the Itty-Bitty Thingie went
> off. ( I *think* I remember a spec of twenty feet for the
> ciggie-rocket to complete its burn and reach full impact
> energy. I *do* remember the ( volunteer ) Tester griping,
> "I'm supposed to hold a cigaret on target at THAT distance?
> Hey, I'm good with my lips, but that's ridiculous. "
Dang it, I wish I could remember which Man From U.N.C.L.E. books it was
that featured a Gyrojet... I _think_ it's the same one that included
mention, but not use, if I recall[1], of a cigarette-mounted
micro-rocket like the one you describe. The Gyrojet itself _did_ get
used, on some incredibly dumb Thrush agents who thought it was toy.
1: It was in the context of an UNCLE-equivalent of a Bond movie's "Q
briefing 007 on the latest gizmo" scene, complete with a dumb comment
by Solo or Kuryakin -- probably the former -- about "Warning: Smoking
can be hazardous to the guy standing next to you."
Gharlane of Eddore
Blathering about how a GyroJet(tm) was useless as anything
but a movie prop,
In <G5y3o...@kithrup.com>,
ghar...@kithrup.com (Gharlane of Eddore) said:
>
> Biggest problem with the gismos were that they had the impact
> energy of a pistol, at rifle ranges; and the accuracy of a
> pistol, at rifle ranges. Those square-backed slugs slowed
> down *really* fast after the first couple hundred yards, and
> since the *entire* shell went down-range, there was a lot more
> hollow there, resulting in poor sectional density, and more
> drag effect than you'd see with an equivalent-mass solid slug.
>
In <9204sd$ioc$1...@panix6.panix.com>,
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> Did they ever experiment with -- even just on paper -- multi-stage
> designs? Or at least something that jettisoned the used-up booster
> stage?
>
Funny you should mention this, since it was our automatic response
after discovering that the ammo manufacturer couldn't even be
importuned to consider a boat-tail prototype.... while I remember
people talking about maybe doing it, if it ever got done, I sure
can't give you any info on it. You'd think in three decades
SOMEONE would have tried it, but as far as I know, there's never
even been a production run of *standard* GJ ammo since the company
Died The Real Death. Alas.
Now, if you'd like to talk about multi-stage 106mm "recoilless"
rocket launchers....... *grin*
space...@startrekmail.com
norv...@sirius.com wrote:
> I quit "Voyager" in its first season. I may yet quit "Andromeda",
except I
> like more about "Andromeda" than I ever did with "Voyager". <shrug>
> It's just space opera; I just watch it for fun and the hunk factor. I
> would be embarrassed, except I don't care to bother. :-)
>
I watch it 'cause I like the color purple ;^) <g>
Space Cadet
email: knd6593 AT my-deja DOT com
url:http://homestead.deja.com/user.knd6593/files/activist.htm
> --
> norv...@sirius.com
> "...To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
> <*> "Ulysses" by Tennyson <*>
>