FLAME - GURU #80000003
David Martin
Ever since I upgraded to WB2.04 I have had zillions of
Guru errors #80000003 in particular. I have been told
numerous times that a NEW setpatch is rumored to be available.
Will this help? I wish someone at CBM would respond. I'm tired
of my machine exploding on me. Does a setpatch V38.25 or
higher REALLY exist and will it help with this problem as
rumored?
David
--
David W. Martin c/o The OpCode Factory tm Seabrook, Texas USA
Commodore might make the Amiga, but the Amiga makes it possible!
PORTAL: DAVIDM CIS: 72510,3232 UUCP: dav...@sugar.neosoft.com
John E. Tillema
> ALL:
>
> Ever since I upgraded to WB2.04 I have had zillions of
> Guru errors #80000003 in particular. I have been told
> numerous times that a NEW setpatch is rumored to be available.
> Will this help? I wish someone at CBM would respond. I'm tired
Well, don't know about the setpatch program, but I have a 2090a
controller with 2 st-506 drives. And several programs consistently
cause me to guru with that number (most notably gcc and QBTools).
After trying to trace it and hoping it was some piece of software,
I decided it must be the hard drives (I also got it a lot while copying
files (large esp) using the AmigaDOS copy command). So I called a local
dealer here who is quite knowledgable about the Amiga asking if it
were indeed the HD. From what he said, the 2090a and 2.04 have some
problems with each other and he suggested changing to a SCSI controller/drive
and this should solve that problem. Since what he said matched what
I had been noticing, I tend to believe him and have ordered a GVP
Series II board and hopefully that will solve my problems (though sadly
I have to get rid of my supra ram board since they aren't compatible :-().
Dan_E_...@cup.portal.com
the flames from lamers. Don't ask me for a copy either. :-)
(Eeek, that has to be the most unfriendly thing I've ever said. It's
truly sad that I would get flamed to death if I helped this guy.
In some ways, Usenet really sucks.)
Dan
Eric Chet
developers beta #$%&
be good
--
~
/**************************************************************************
* Eric Chet | Amiga does it better
* ch...@netcom.com | Ray Tracing and other graphics techniques
* BIX: chet | "Use what is useful, simply to simplify"
*/
Michael Sinz
>ALL:
>
> Ever since I upgraded to WB2.04 I have had zillions of
>Guru errors #80000003 in particular. I have been told
>numerous times that a NEW setpatch is rumored to be available.
The cause of these GURUs are, most likely, due to the fact that the
applications are assuming that the IAddress field of the intuimessage
is pointing to a Gadget. In most messages, this never was the case,
but it just happened to point to another memory structure that was
not at an ODD address. So, when the application blindly read some
valud from the "gadget" that IAddress was pointing to, it would just
get some random data. Now, however, some of these messages contain
a odd value and thus cause this access to be illegal on 68000 systems.
>Will this help? I wish someone at CBM would respond. I'm tired
>of my machine exploding on me. Does a setpatch V38.25 or
>higher REALLY exist and will it help with this problem as
>rumored?
Yes, a new SetPatch will be able to help out here. We have a very sneaky
way to make IAddress not show up ODD. However, this does not mean that the
software that is crashing does not have a bug. The fix is mainly for
compatibility.
As far as a new SetPatch goes, I think the one that is now shipping has
this patch in it. The disks are labeled as 2.05 and were first shipped with
the A600 machines (as they needed the PCMCIA support which was the main
reason behind 2.05) I have been pushing that we release a SetPatch to
something like Fred Fish and it looks like that will happen soon. We have to
test out all of the issues involved, but it should not be much longer.
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| /// Michael Sinz - Senior Amiga Software Engineer |
| /// Operating System Development Group |
| /// BIX: msinz UUNET: rutgers!cbmvax!mks |
|\\\/// |
| \XX/ Quantum Physics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
James E. Talbut
>ALL:
>
> Ever since I upgraded to WB2.04 I have had zillions of
>Guru errors #80000003 in particular. I have been told
>numerous times that a NEW setpatch is rumored to be available.
>Will this help? I wish someone at CBM would respond. I'm tired
>of my machine exploding on me. Does a setpatch V38.25 or
>higher REALLY exist and will it help with this problem as
>rumored?
>
>David
>
I get exactly the same prob, what the hell is gong on?
I saw a message a few weeks back about someone asking if the SetPatch
was freely distributable, is it?
Please, someone, we need help, badly!
>--
>
>David W. Martin c/o The OpCode Factory tm Seabrook, Texas USA
>Commodore might make the Amiga, but the Amiga makes it possible!
>PORTAL: DAVIDM CIS: 72510,3232 UUCP: dav...@sugar.neosoft.com
--
Fine beer may be judged with just one sip,
but it's better to be thoroughly sure. - Czech proverb
James Talbut mp...@syma.susx.ac.uk
Steve Sheldon
>
> Ever since I upgraded to WB2.04 I have had zillions of
>Guru errors #80000003 in particular. I have been told
>numerous times that a NEW setpatch is rumored to be available.
>Will this help? I wish someone at CBM would respond. I'm tired
>of my machine exploding on me. Does a setpatch V38.25 or
>higher REALLY exist and will it help with this problem as
>rumored?
>
>David
>
>--
Welcome to the club. I have had the same problem, numerous crashes
with the same Guru error. I to have attempted to find out about some
rumored SetPatch. I have asked my dealer to no avail, and have posted
on here a couple of times, with no response.
This is typical of the kind of bullshit that I have received from
Commodore since I purchased my Amiga back in 1987. I guess you have to
be a "developer" to get any sort of support when you have a problem.
I like AmigaDOS 2.04, it is a really nice GUI, better than anything else
I have worked with on any other platform. But it is unstable, and
practically worthless to work with.
I can understand crashes from not so well behaved programs. But 2.04
is crashing because somebody in the room sneezed, or so it appears.
I could go on and on. But suffice it to say, that this kind of bullshit
does not occur regularly with the bigger software companies in the DOS
world. Especially the companies which write operating systems.
James E. Talbut
If the new SetPatch exists would it not be possible them to make it
available like WB1.3.2 was?
Heck I'd even be willing to pay for it!
Sorry about the third posting, but a computer that crashes every hour or
so just ain't worth using, and I need to be able to use my Ami.
J.T.
Dave Haynie
> I like AmigaDOS 2.04, it is a really nice GUI, better than anything else
>I have worked with on any other platform. But it is unstable, and
>practically worthless to work with.
AmigaOS 2.04 is very solid. Around C=, nobody uses 1.3 anymore, even us
hardware guys. And we're always the last to upgrade. The problems you're
having are with buggy applications software. Mike Sinz suggested a few
messages ago that new SetPatch programs are created if the software folks
come up with a workaround to common bugs. But that doesn't mean its their
responsibility to fix other companies' mistakes, just that they're trying to
help out the users. You don't generally find this attitude with other
OS companies -- when they find bugs in applications, they tell you flat out,
don't use those applications.
> I could go on and on. But suffice it to say, that this kind of bullshit
>does not occur regularly with the bigger software companies in the DOS
>world. Especially the companies which write operating systems.
Have you actually used Mac or PClone OSs? MS-Windows 3.0 was buggy as hell
when it came out, so was Mac OS 6.0. That's before you got to any
applications. I haven't used Mac OS 7.0 yet, maybe the OS itself is reliable.
But lots of programs break under it. I know from reviews that the first thing
it does is take all the programs it knows break the rules and sticks them in
a special "don't use anymore" directory. In other words, tough beans. Lots
of the time between 2.00 and 2.04 was spent working on compatibility fixes
for programs that broke the rules -- they could change the OS to still work
even though something bad was being done.
--
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
{uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh BIX: hazy
"What would they do if I just sailed away?" -Jimmy Buffett
John Lee
> I like AmigaDOS 2.04, it is a really nice GUI, better than anything else
>I have worked with on any other platform. But it is unstable, and
>practically worthless to work with.
> I can understand crashes from not so well behaved programs. But 2.04
>is crashing because somebody in the room sneezed, or so it appears.
>
> I could go on and on. But suffice it to say, that this kind of bullshit
>does not occur regularly with the bigger software companies in the DOS
>world. Especially the companies which write operating systems.
Nor does it occur with Commodore. My A3000 does not regularly crash
with 2.04 and I run a *great* variety of programs, commercial and PD.
As a software developer, I run many of my own programs as well. v2.04
is *not* unstable. And no, I am not a certified or registered Amiga
developer.
May I suggest looking for other causes? They include:
1. Faulty applications. These include utilities automatically started
from S:Startup-Sequence or S:User-Startup. Many programs have subtle
bugs that cause delayed crashes.
2. Faulty power. Marginal or noisy power can and do look like software
failures. Beware of overloading the internal power supply.
3. Faulty hardware. Things like heat-sensitive or marginal components.
v2.04 is by no means bug-free. But it is by no means as faulty as you
imply. As for this not occurring "regularly with bigger software
companies in the DOS world," try looking little more objectively. I
think you'll find that they are not at all sterling. The situation is
comparable. In the bigger world of corporate computing, software from
*big* companies, from applications to OS, is _full_ of bugs. These
guys are not small-time players.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The crew faces deadly GURUs! Next time on AmigaDOS: The Next Generation.
+--------+ John Lee
| HUGHES |
+--------+ Internet: jh...@hac2arpa.hac.com
The above opinions are those of the user and not of those of this machine.
Spice, Darrell G.
>In article <1992Jun22....@news.iastate.edu> ta...@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>[...]
>> I like AmigaDOS 2.04, it is a really nice GUI, better than anything else
>>I have worked with on any other platform. But it is unstable, and
>>practically worthless to work with.
>> I can understand crashes from not so well behaved programs. But 2.04
>>is crashing because somebody in the room sneezed, or so it appears.
>>
>> I could go on and on. But suffice it to say, that this kind of bullshit
>>does not occur regularly with the bigger software companies in the DOS
>>world. Especially the companies which write operating systems.
>
Hmm--I did have a few GURU's when I first upgraded my 2000HD to 2.04, but once
I did a bit of clean up as to what utilities I was using, the GURU's went
bye-bye (except for when I goof writing a C program! :-) )
I for one am extremely pleased with the reliability of WB2.04, we just upgraded
the MAC's at work (gag) to system 7, and are now having to upgrade a majority
of our applications which are no longer compatible with the OS! and to run
ANYTHING, you need to have 4MEG RAM, so we had to shell out even more money
to upgrade memory as well as all the update fees. Rather nasty.
I'm always happy to get back home to use my Amiga. A MUCH nicer machine.
Darrell
Randell Jesup
>In article <1992Jun20.1...@NeoSoft.com>, dav...@NeoSoft.com (David Martin) writes:
>> Ever since I upgraded to WB2.04 I have had zillions of
>>Guru errors #80000003 in particular. I have been told
>>numerous times that a NEW setpatch is rumored to be available.
> Welcome to the club. I have had the same problem, numerous crashes
>with the same Guru error. I to have attempted to find out about some
>rumored SetPatch. I have asked my dealer to no avail, and have posted
>on here a couple of times, with no response.
"80000003" tells very little. What is important is what application
you're running (and what machine). I believe MKS has posted that you're
most likely having a problem with an application that examines what IAddress
points to even when the message type is not one for which IAddress is
valid. By chance in 1.3 this didn't blow you up. The fact that a future
version of SetPatch may fix this does NOT mean that the application isn't
broken. Programmers out there, please realize that when we put in a
compatibility hack like this (or the many that are in the ROM itself to
keep various classes of applications from failing), there's no guarantee
that the hack will remain in future versions. This is especially true when
it gets in the way of progress, or when it uses too much ROM space.
> This is typical of the kind of bullshit that I have received from
>Commodore since I purchased my Amiga back in 1987. I guess you have to
>be a "developer" to get any sort of support when you have a problem.
I think you're wrong here. We here at Commodore bend over backwards
to help both our customers and developers whenever we can. Look at myself,
Dave Haynie, Peter Cherna, Mike Sinz, Chris Green, etc, and the work we
do here and on BIX. What other computer company has as many engineers
helping out people on Usenet on their own time? Plus (while it may not
satify you, given your amiga is old) we now sell our amigas with the
Gold Service support/warrantee/whatever plan (in the US) (sorry, I'm not up
on the precise details of that).
> I like AmigaDOS 2.04, it is a really nice GUI, better than anything else
>I have worked with on any other platform. But it is unstable, and
>practically worthless to work with.
Thanks for the compliments, but "unstable" is that last thing I'd
term 2.04. I'm sorry if you have a favored application that broke the
rules. I'm sorry we didn't put in a compatibility kludge to paper over
people use IAddress when they shouldn't. I am not in any way sorry as to the
level of stability or compatibility given the high percentage of applications
that broke the rules.
If your favored application is broken, get or demand an update.
Things like that happen. We've maintained a far better level of compatibility
with applications that bent or broke the rules than say Apple has.
> I can understand crashes from not so well behaved programs. But 2.04
>is crashing because somebody in the room sneezed, or so it appears.
If it crashes like that, something you're running is quite buggy.
Perhaps one program is writing over memory it doesn't own if the guru's aren't
consistently from one application. Try removing things, especially startup-
sequence and WBstartup stuff until you find the culprit.
> I could go on and on. But suffice it to say, that this kind of bullshit
>does not occur regularly with the bigger software companies in the DOS
>world. Especially the companies which write operating systems.
Did you ever run Windows 3.0? Ever see the dreaded Unrecoverable
Application Error? And MS is about as big as they get. How many Windows
2.x programs didn't need updates for Windows 3.x? Never had problems with
TSR interactions? Etc, etc.
As usual, these are PERSONAL opinions, not those of Commodore.
--
A Novice asked the master: "What is the true meaning of programming?" The
master replied: "Eat when you are hungry, sleep when you are tired, program
when the moment is right." - The Zen of Programming
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, je...@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
Keith Stewart
> Why does no-one from CBM have anything to say about this?
>
> If the new SetPatch exists would it not be possible them to make it
> available like WB1.3.2 was?
> Heck I'd even be willing to pay for it!
>
> Sorry about the third posting, but a computer that crashes every hour or
> so just ain't worth using, and I need to be able to use my Ami.
>
> J.T.
>
ROCK SOLID!!!!
Is this buggy programmes or is it just easier to blame AmigaDOS
>
> --
> Fine beer may be judged with just one sip,
> but it's better to be thoroughly sure. - Czech proverb
>
> James Talbut mp...@syma.susx.ac.uk
KEith
Mike Campbell
> stuff deleted
< stuff deleted >
>--
>A Novice asked the master: "What is the true meaning of programming?" The
>master replied: "Eat when you are hungry, sleep when you are tired, program
>when the moment is right." - The Zen of Programming
>-
>Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
>{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, je...@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup
>Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
Thanks Randell for reminding us of the great work that you guys at Commodore
Engineering are doing. It shows us here on the 'net that you guys CARE about
the products you're producing and TAKE OWNERSHIP for them. I want to remind
the netters out there about the rubbish served up by Micro***** called
Win****. Do you ever see them taking a personal interest or accountability for their work ? I have the misfortune of trying to configure client-server applications under Win**** and I can tell you of the hours of "loading devices drivers high etc" just to get "Out of memory" errors on a 4mb m/c ! On an Amiga (and on
any properly designed OS, you don't worry where the O/S places the devices drivers). I could say more, but enough rambling about 'PC's ,MS-DOG and Win****.
Once again thanks to the Commodore crew and keep up the good work !
Regards
Mike Campbell
mcam...@hemel.bull.co.uk
"All my own opinions and definitely not my employer's"
Markus Juhani Aalto
Why does no-one from CBM have anything to say about this?
If the new SetPatch exists would it not be possible them to make it
available like WB1.3.2 was?
Heck I'd even be willing to pay for it!
Sorry about the third posting, but a computer that crashes every hour or
so just ain't worth using, and I need to be able to use my Ami.
Hey, why don't you tell us what programs you are using when your Amiga
crashes. Maybe someone could help you to found those broken progs.
I too had lots of "guru #00000003"'s when I upgraded to WB2.04 but I
got rid of those when I stopped using few PD apps.
J.T.
--
***********************************************************************
* Markus...@hut.fi | Helsinki University of Technology *
* s37...@vipunen.hut.fi | Faculty of Electric Engineering *
* s37...@puukko.hut.fi | Undergraduate in Computer Science *
* maa...@otax.hut.fi | *
***********************************************************************
P A Dale
>je...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) writes:
>> stuff deleted
>>> This is typical of the kind of bullshit that I have received from
>
[stuff deleted including Randell's reply]
>>--
>>A Novice asked the master: "What is the true meaning of programming?" The
>>master replied: "Eat when you are hungry, sleep when you are tired, program
>>when the moment is right." - The Zen of Programming
>>-
>>Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
>>{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, je...@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup
>>Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
>
>Thanks Randell for reminding us of the great work that you guys at Commodore
>Engineering are doing. It shows us here on the 'net that you guys CARE about
>the products you're producing and TAKE OWNERSHIP for them. I want to remind
[M****soft woes deleted]
I'd echo all those sentiments having spent an evening grunging said devices
for a business friend.
>Once again thanks to the Commodore crew and keep up the good work !
>Regards
>Mike Campbell
>mcam...@hemel.bull.co.uk
>"All my own opinions and definitely not my employer's"
I'd like to add my thanks to Mike's and echo the comments about having Commodore
staff online. Here in the UK we're pretty starved of help for most things.
The great thing about the Amiga is the amount of good support I can get
directly from the people who know (at Commodore) either from the newsgroup or through
private e-mail. What would you prefer, "bullshit" or silence ? Think about it.
Randell and co. don't have to post at all. They don't have to take the flames
and crap from people but they still reply. I'm not putting anyone on a pedistal
or saying things are just perfect but at least we have a service for nothing.
I hope the guys at Commodore keep posting despite the flames.
Paul Dale
p.s. I've found 2.04 very stable but then my applications are bound to be
different from the original poster's :-)
Systems admin./applications support/programmer.
BUCS, Bath University, Claverton Down, Bath, Avon. UK BA2 7AY
tel: 0225 826215
e-mail: P.A....@bath.ac.uk
fax: 0225 826176
"Who needs a disclaimer ? Oh, you're American. That's right, they'll sue
your butt for anything there."
Tim Purves
I wish commodore, wouldn't have bothered, IMO, we would be better off to
seperate the wheat from the chaft
Alan Braggins
> ta...@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Jun20.1...@NeoSoft.com>, dav...@NeoSoft.com (David Martin) writes:
> "80000003" tells very little. What is important is what application
> you're running (and what machine). I believe MKS has posted that you're
> most likely having a problem with an application that examines what IAddress
> points to even when the message type is not one for which IAddress is
> valid. By chance in 1.3 this didn't blow you up. The fact that a future
> version of SetPatch may fix this does NOT mean that the application isn't
> broken. Programmers out there, please realize that when we put in a
> compatibility hack like this (or the many that are in the ROM itself to
> keep various classes of applications from failing), there's no guarantee
> that the hack will remain in future versions. This is especially true when
> it gets in the way of progress, or when it uses too much ROM space.
Howabout a release where the compatibility hack puts up a little requester
saying what's wrong and forces you to click on it. Not quite as annoying as
a guru, and makes it easier to trace whats causing it (and shows its not a bug
in the OS). OTOH, takes up even more space...
--
Alan Braggins, Shape Data (A Division of EDS Ltd), Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
"My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."
The Code Slinger
have been causing this problem name those programs, so that the rest of us
can avoid/stop using them. That way, maybe there won't be so much
moaning and groaning, and blaming Commodore for their troubles?
PS: I don't have this particular set of Guru's since I still own and use
only a 1000.
Chris
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ah, Benson, you are so mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence!"
"Oh, thank you, Master!" - from the movie, TIME BANDITS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
due...@xenon.arc.nasa.gov | Proud owner of a 1985 AMIGA 1000!
ch...@dune.arc.nasa.gov | Chris Dueker (The Code Slinger)
du...@well.sf.ca.us | Mtn. View, CA, USA (Sillycon Valley!)
Michael R Charbonneau
sure,
Breach 2.02 (the workbench 2.04 version no less)
consistantly crashes with the 8000 0003 guru.
michael charbonneau
| Michael R. Charbonneau | It goes on all day long |
| GE Corporate Research & Development | Everyone knows everything |
| Artificial Intelligence Laboratory | No one is ever wrong |
| Schenectady NY 12345 | until later... |
Jon Reid
post. Try again...
Why do I get 8000 0003 on the IFF-to-SHAM converter on the Fish disks that
says it requires OS 2.0 (which I have)?
Gregory R Block
: Why do I get 8000 0003 on the IFF-to-SHAM converter on the Fish disks that
: says it requires OS 2.0 (which I have)?
Because it's a bug in the converter. Switch converters. Personally,
I use WASP. Works fine under 2.0.
Greg
--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today? Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(: -- No GNU's is GOOD GNUs -- :)
(: gbl...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu Gregory R. Block :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
John Tillema
> Say, how's about those of you who have found out which programs/utilities
> have been causing this problem name those programs, so that the rest of us
> can avoid/stop using them. That way, maybe there won't be so much
Okay, on my system (even with nothing but system stuff - that is came
with OS 2.04) gcc (any version) and QB Tools crash consistently
with 8000 0003 and also periodically with 8000 0004. They are by
far the worst offenders, but am going to be getting a new hard drive/
controller and see if that fixes it since other people seem to get
them working fine. I think that is the most annoying part of this
guru, what works fine on one machine, may not on another...
Jesper Kehlet
>when it came out, so was Mac OS 6.0. That's before you got to any
>applications. I haven't used Mac OS 7.0 yet, maybe the OS itself is reliable.
>But lots of programs break under it. I know from reviews that the first thing
>it does is take all the programs it knows break the rules and sticks them in
>a special "don't use anymore" directory. In other words, tough beans. Lots
>of the time between 2.00 and 2.04 was spent working on compatibility fixes
>for programs that broke the rules -- they could change the OS to still work
>even though something bad was being done.
I think a few things must be said about the Mac System 7.0:
it is *still* buggy as hell... the only real thing, that has been changed,
is the support for VM with a MMU. That's just about it! It's still the
good ol' "Every program does it in supervisor mode", crashes and hangs and
a system, that just feels good to the user -- until a certain point... if
the Mac crashes, you don't get the opportunity to finish up -- it just
hangs! For a common user on a Macintosh, that is *VERY* frustrating -- and
I don't believe it'll change.
Windows is another thing: if it crashes, it is not even certain if you'll
know about it right away -- it could just show up 30-40 minutes later while
you're getting some important work done...
So all I can say is: I just *LOVE* the Software Failure requester -- it's
the best thing that's ever been invented on any system -- some would claim,
that Unix does a good job dumping the core, but still unfinished jobs would
be lost without chance to rescue (for the average user, that is...).
A friend of mine once told me that Windows is a house build from playing
cards, the Macs System 7.0 is a house made out of tree and OS/2 *AND* Amiga
OS V37+ were houses made out of solid concrete -- this guy is a respected
programmer here in Europe (not only Denmark) and have worked with
everything from an 8088-based peecee over the whole peecee, Mac, Amiga (+
Amiga/UX)... to major mainframes, so he'd know something about it...
>
>--
>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
> {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh BIX: hazy
> "What would they do if I just sailed away?" -Jimmy Buffett
>
--
Jesper Kehlet, Compos Mentis -- "Breaking Through To The Other Side"
(uunet|pyramid|rutgers)!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmden!kehlet!kehlet
cbmehq!cbmden!kehlet!keh...@cbmvax.commodore.com
Let's joyride life -- who'd forbid it? FIDO: 2:230/413.0
"Yet another emotional suicide
overdosed on sentiment and pride
Too late to say I love you
Too late to restage the play
Abandoning the relics in my playground
of yesterday"
-Marillion, "Script for A Jester's Tear", 1983
Anthony Joseph Bruder
not the 2.04 OS, but *New Horizons*
ProWrite 3.2 has been updated repeatedly recently 3.2, 3.2.1, 3.2.2,
3.2.3 and the latest 3.2.4 !!!!
Of course we come here to praise New Horizons and to condem 2.04.
Quarterback, taken over by New Horizons from Central Coast Software, and
updated to 5.0 is an example of how a very reliable program can become
bug ridden in the wrong hands. Out comes QB5.01.... No? No good? How
about QB5.02. They promise that when that comes out it will be rock
stable.
But we are here to praise New Horizons and condem C= fellow Romans.
And now we hear that QBTools causes Guru's! Can't be New Horizon's
fault. Must be that stupid OS2.04.
But we are here to praise.........
Of course we all know that PD software is all very solid. It must
be the OS which causes the crashes when AssignX and VirusChecker6.06
is run together.
Why doesn't C= get its act together and make sure that every piece of
software can be run, together with any other program, whether it follows
guidelines or not. I don't see why Lotus 1 2 3 crashes my Amiga! It
works on any PC!
Tony
Neil M.G. Gall
I'd like to take this opportunity to flame you, in the friendliest
manner of course, for _NOT_ helping this guy. I've got exactly the
same problem. Who gives a shit if you get flamed anyway ? (sorry -
it's not a real flame unless you swear)
Peter Cherna
>Okay, on my system (even with nothing but system stuff - that is came
>with OS 2.04) gcc (any version) and QB Tools crash consistently
>with 8000 0003 and also periodically with 8000 0004.
Just to clarify: not every guru #3 is related to the MOUSEMOVE problem
that a future SetPatch will address. The guru #4's are typically
application bugs whose fix will have to come from the application vendors.
Also, if an application gets mixed guru 80000003, 80000004, 8000000B, and
so on, then the fix will also have to come from the application vendor.
The guru 3 that is fixable only affects 68000-based systems. And only
those with incorrectly-written applications. 68020/30/40 systems are
not affected by this problem.
>John
>jtil...@caslon.cs.arizona.edu
Peter
--
Peter Cherna, Operating Systems Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter pe...@cbmvax.commodore.com
My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer.
"This posting is unusually long because I lacked the time to make it short."
Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking
Also, I don't believe that it was ever actually ascertained that the
IAddress thing was at the root of this particular person's problems. It
was suggested by Mike Sinz as a "likely" cause of the problem.
///
Mike Sinz writes:
>The cause of these GURUs are, most likely, due to the fact that the
>applications are assuming that the IAddress field of the intuimessage
>is pointing to a Gadget. In most messages, this never was the case,
>but it just happened to point to another memory structure that was
>not at an ODD address. So, when the application blindly read some
>valud from the "gadget" that IAddress was pointing to, it would just
>get some random data. Now, however, some of these messages contain
>a odd value and thus cause this access to be illegal on 68000 systems.
>
>>Will this help? I wish someone at CBM would respond. I'm tired
>>of my machine exploding on me. Does a setpatch V38.25 or
>>higher REALLY exist and will it help with this problem as
>>rumored? (David Martin)
>
>Yes, a new SetPatch will be able to help out here. We have a very sneaky
>way to make IAddress not show up ODD. However, this does not mean that the
>software that is crashing does not have a bug. The fix is mainly for
>compatibility.
///
Folks, we need definitive bug reports that give us something other than "it
often crashes with an 00000003 guru and it's 2.04's fault". Otherwise it's
just hearsay evidence. Reproducible bugs get fixed.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Brian Jackson Amiga Networking Group, Commodore-Amiga Inc.
b...@cbmvax.commodore.com
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj or netwo...@cbmvax.commodore.com
"Oh, so you have a Borg named Hugh." Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
patient and detailed response they give to these issues.
Thom
Erick L. Parsons
Lessee... You installed the new 2.04 ROM and now your
having problems with GURUS. Speaking from experiance ;) I would
suggest that possibly when you removed and replaced the ROM the
Agnus chip socket flexed slightly causing the connection(s) from
the Agnus chip to socket to become flakey (Just a thought). Try
reseating the Agnus chip by pressing it into the socket and see if
your troubles dissapear. It's worked for me.
--
------------------ // -----------Cut-Here----------------------------------
Erick Parsons // Words for the wise: *If it works don't fix it.*
Sacramento Ca // mail to: ...pacbell!sactoh0!americ!erk
John Tillema
> Just to clarify: not every guru #3 is related to the MOUSEMOVE problem
> that a future SetPatch will address. The guru #4's are typically
> application bugs whose fix will have to come from the application vendors.
> Also, if an application gets mixed guru 80000003, 80000004, 8000000B, and
> so on, then the fix will also have to come from the application vendor.
>
Thanks for the extra input on that. It would be nice if there were
(don't know if there is) a FAQ or some such article that listed
what the different guru numbers meant, and possibly what common
groups mean (ex. above). My problem I got fixed, it turned out my
2090a contorller and 2.04 didn't quite like each other. I have now
got a GVP SeriesII+8 card and gcc seems to work great on it on
the first try (Which is great news cause I have a lot I want to do
with it, but didn't really want to spend the money on a new HD at
this point in time, but it WORKS!!)
Again thanks to all who sent me possible solutions (none worked
but its the thought that counts :-))
Rostyk Lewyckyj
>
> groups mean (ex. above). My problem I got fixed, it turned out my
> 2090a contorller and 2.04 didn't quite like each other. I have now
> got a GVP SeriesII+8 card and gcc seems to work great on it on
> the first try (Which is great news cause I have a lot I want to do
>
"didn't quite like each other" and that it takes a third party product
to work right?. Does the 2.04 didtribution carry any kind of a warning
about which C= (or other vendors) products it's known to have conflicts
with?
Simon Lee
>groups mean (ex. above). My problem I got fixed, it turned out my
>2090a contorller and 2.04 didn't quite like each other. I have now
Hmm. This is what I just got. I hope they don't have compatability problems.
Does anyone have any info on the reliability of the 2090a + 2.04WB? Is there
a fix?
Thanks,
-Simon
--
* Simon Lee * Microscopy and Imaging Resources *
* si...@ivem.ucsd.edu * Intermediate Voltage Electron Microscopy *
* su...@ucsd.edu * UC San Diego, Dept. of Neuroscience *
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LaMonte Koop
Look, in the example given above, I do not know the exact situation involved,
but the 2090a controller is quite aged in terms of hardware that is out there.
C='s products are in general very compliant with the rules they have laid down
for compatibility's sake, and taking the attitude of suspicion seen here is
not at all warranted. Think about it...these are very complex systems, running
a complex operating system environment. The level of compatibility C='s
software and hardware engineers have achieved is quite commendable, and that
_includes_ with their own past products, not to mention the tricks these people
put in to make third party hard/software which was badly outside rule bounds
still work. Go over to the Mac or somesuch and there are interesting problems
involved with every OS update they have ever had...including with Apple's own
past hard/software products.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering
Internet: lk...@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu -OR- f00...@kanga.stcloud.msus.edu
"Lost my mind??? Never...misplaced perhaps...but never lost!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil M.G. Gall
|> > Say, how's about those of you who have found out which programs/utilities
|> > have been causing this problem name those programs, so that the rest of us
|> > can avoid/stop using them. That way, maybe there won't be so much
|>
I'm having problems with Lattice C 5.02. Everyone tells me to upgrade
to 5.10, but the linker crashes too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 5.04
is the latest Blink isn't it ?
Mike Koch
>Hasn't anyone noticed the common denominator of these guru's? No
>not the 2.04 OS, but *New Horizons*
[Stuff about ProWrite deleted because I don't own that particular product.]
>Quarterback, taken over by New Horizons from Central Coast Software, and
>updated to 5.0 is an example of how a very reliable program can become
>bug ridden in the wrong hands. Out comes QB5.01.... No? No good? How
>about QB5.02. They promise that when that comes out it will be rock
>stable.
And if anyone noticed, Mark Thomas gave us the answer as to why Quarterback's
reliability took a nosedive - New Horizons got rid of everyone from Central
Coast after they acquired their product line. George Chamberlain did a
marvelous job on Quarterback over the years, and I'm glad to hear that he's
not involved with what is now just another mediocre product on the market.
>But we are here to praise New Horizons and condem C= fellow Romans.
>
>And now we hear that QBTools causes Guru's! Can't be New Horizon's
>fault. Must be that stupid OS2.04.
I haven't had any problems with QBTools (v1.15), but that version is almost 15
months old, so that was before New Horizons got their hands on it.
>But we are here to praise.........
>
>Of course we all know that PD software is all very solid. It must
>be the OS which causes the crashes when AssignX and VirusChecker6.06
>is run together.
A few PD programs seem to have a problem with AssignX (MFR & ARQ, to name the
other two I know of), but it's one of the more useful PD programs that I use.
>Why doesn't C= get its act together and make sure that every piece of
>software can be run, together with any other program, whether it follows
>guidelines or not. I don't see why Lotus 1 2 3 crashes my Amiga! It
>works on any PC!
That's just silly! :-)
>Tony
Mike
--
=============================================================================
Mike Koch uunet!cbmvax!rehab1!amisys!mkoch CI$: 70017,2677
Gregory M. Stelmack
>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
> {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh BIX: hazy
> "What would they do if I just sailed away?" -Jimmy Buffett
about the future of Amiga hardware development...
--
-- Greg Stelmack (stel...@eggo.csee.usf.edu)
-- WordPerfect: A WP that does in 3 kestrokes what most others do in 1...
-- DISCLAIMER: The opinions reflected here do not necessarily represent those
-- of my school or my employer.
Michael van Elst
> I like AmigaDOS 2.04, it is a really nice GUI, better than anything else
>I have worked with on any other platform. But it is unstable, and
>practically worthless to work with.
Could you keep that blunder to .advocacy ? Are all folx from iastate like
that ?
--
Michael van Elst
UUCP: universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p55...@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
"A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
George L Skank
>In article <1992Jun22....@syma.sussex.ac.uk> mp...@syma.sussex.ac.uk (James E. Talbut) writes:
>> Why does no-one from CBM have anything to say about this?
>>
>> If the new SetPatch exists would it not be possible them to make it
>> available like WB1.3.2 was?
>> Heck I'd even be willing to pay for it!
>>
>> Sorry about the third posting, but a computer that crashes every hour or
>> so just ain't worth using, and I need to be able to use my Ami.
>>
>>
>Whats all this I have been using 2.04 for about 4 months and it has been
>ROCK SOLID!!!!
>
>Is this buggy programmes or is it just easier to blame AmigaDOS
>
>KEith
I'm afraid I have to agree with Keith. I've used 2.04 for months
and have had no crashes for over a year. There may be a new version of
Setpatch out, but if you're having crashes every hour or so I'd wager
the problem is not in the operating system...
--George
--
George L. Skank |"Religion and Politics will both ///
Graduate, Electrical Engineering| exist in greater purity the less ///
Iowa State University, Ames, IA | they are mixed together" \\\ ///
sk...@iastate.edu | --Thomas Paine \\X//
George L Skank
>In article <1992Jun22....@news.iastate.edu> ta...@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>
>v2.04 is by no means bug-free. But it is by no means as faulty as you
Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft
>imply. As for this not occurring "regularly with bigger software
Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft
>companies in the DOS world," try looking little more objectively. I
Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft
>think you'll find that they are not at all sterling. The situation is
Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft
>comparable. In the bigger world of corporate computing, software from
Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft
>*big* companies, from applications to OS, is _full_ of bugs. These
Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft Microsoft
>guys are not small-time players.
Gosh, I can't think of any big-name companies that have ever
released buggy software... You must be mistaken... ;-)
--George
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The crew faces deadly GURUs! Next time on AmigaDOS: The Next Generation.
> +--------+ John Lee
> | HUGHES |
> +--------+ Internet: jh...@hac2arpa.hac.com
>The above opinions are those of the user and not of those of this machine
George L Skank
>Say, how's about those of you who have found out which programs/utilities
>have been causing this problem name those programs, so that the rest of us
>can avoid/stop using them. That way, maybe there won't be so much
>moaning and groaning, and blaming Commodore for their troubles?
>
O.K., I'll start it off:
CPUblit and ToolManager appear to have bugs under 2.04. There may be
a new version off ToolManager that works better now, but I havn't missed it.
CPUBlit was nice when it worked, but my system was less stable with it running.
--George
George L Skank
>In <1992Jun22....@news.iastate.edu> ta...@isuvax.iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) writes:
>> I like AmigaDOS 2.04, it is a really nice GUI, better than anything else
>>I have worked with on any other platform. But it is unstable, and
>>practically worthless to work with.
>
>Could you keep that blunder to .advocacy ? Are all folx from iastate like
>that ?
>
>--
>Michael van Elst
No, we are not all like that. I happen to like my Amiga *a lot* in
fact, I would not trade my A3000 for a 486/33 running OS/2. Three friends
of mine just bought 486/33 with 16Megs of memory. *One* of them ran OS/2
for a week and he dumped it because it was such a resource hog. I also
*really* like 2.04 and the 2.04 GUI.
O.K., I admit it, Marc Barrett goes to school here. I've met
Marc, around here, he's sort of notorious. He may be confused about a lot
of things (most things probably), but deep down he really loves his Amiga
500. Life can't be perfect.
Brad Pennock
>In <1992Jun22....@news.iastate.edu> ta...@isuvax.iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) writes:
>> I like AmigaDOS 2.04, it is a really nice GUI, better than anything else
>>I have worked with on any other platform. But it is unstable, and
>>practically worthless to work with.
>
>Could you keep that blunder to .advocacy ? Are all folx from iastate like
>that ?
>
for). I do have to mention that Workbench 2.04 is the single best investment
I've made in my Amiga 500, IMHO. I must dispute the original poster's
comments about its instability...I find it to be quite the opposite, many of
the gurus I get are MY FAULT! And I rarely get an unexpected system error.
My congratulations go out to Commodore and their OS development division.
I never will look back to WB 1.3 and certainly cringe at the thought of it.
Now that I have your attention Commodore...how about churning out a flicker
free hi-resolution graphics mode for the Amiga? We have World-class software
for a World-class platform...how about some nifty *steady* graphics modes for
us with A500s and A2000s that don't cost alot?
Thank you for your attention.
_______----_______
Brad A. Pennock ___---~~~~~.. ... .... ... ..~~~~~---___
Waiting For The 24th Century ==============================================
________________________- .. .. _--~~~~~-------____-------~~~~~
(____________________][__)____ -
/ /____---~~~.. .. ..~~-_~ INET: be...@pnet01.cts.com
<_____________________________- ARPA: crash!pnet01!be...@nosc.mil
~~~~~~----__ UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!benji
~~~~~~~~~~~ ICBM: 117deg9min12secW 32deg44min30secN
pet...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au
>In article <18...@optima.cs.arizona.edu> jtil...@cs.arizona.edu (John Tillema) writes:
>>In article <32...@cbmvax.commodore.com>, pe...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna) writes:
>>groups mean (ex. above). My problem I got fixed, it turned out my
>>2090a contorller and 2.04 didn't quite like each other. I have now
>
>Hmm. This is what I just got. I hope they don't have compatability problems.
>Does anyone have any info on the reliability of the 2090a + 2.04WB? Is there
>a fix?
>
Well, I have my A2500 for a few years and never had any problems with
the A2090a. I have been using 2.04 for well over half a year now and
I still didn't encounter a single problem. Infact I had more gurus under
1.3 (not related to anything in particular except bad code) I don't know
why you guys seem to think that the A2090a + 2.04 seems to be the source
of your problems.
BTW: I am running a 68030 based system and do not boot of off the A2090a
anymore, but even when I booted from A2090a I had no probs.
+------------------------------------------------------+
| Peter Urbanec s101...@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au |
| pet...@hydra.maths.unsw.oz.au |
| |
Michael van Elst
>In article <1992Jul5.1...@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mle...@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>>Could you keep that blunder to .advocacy ? Are all folx from iastate like
>>that ?
> No, we are not all like that.
> O.K., I admit it, Marc Barrett goes to school here. I've met
>Marc, around here, he's sort of notorious.
Sorry if anyone from iastate felt hurt. I just wondered if our beloved
-MB- was colouring off.
Greetings to iastate (whereever that is... Geography courses ? None)
Regards,
Mike Meyer
> Now that I have your attention Commodore...how about churning out a flicker
> free hi-resolution graphics mode for the Amiga? We have World-class software
> for a World-class platform...how about some nifty *steady* graphics modes for
> us with A500s and A2000s that don't cost alot?
It won't happen on the current hardware, because of bandwidth
limitations. That means it won't happen for people with A500s or
A2000s.
<mike
Valentin Pepelea
>
>>groups mean (ex. above). My problem I got fixed, it turned out my
>>2090a contorller and 2.04 didn't quite like each other. I have now
>
>Hmm. This is what I just got. I hope they don't have compatability problems.
>Does anyone have any info on the reliability of the 2090a + 2.04WB? Is there
>a fix?
I can personally testify that 2.04 works just fine with the A2090a. In fact,
the 2090a works much better with 2.04, since you do not have to set up a
separate partition for the initial boot.
You see, the fast filesystem is already in the 2.04 ROMs, thus obliviating the
need for a special SFS partition that allows the computer to load in the FFS
and reboot.
Valentin
--
"An operating system without virtual memory Name: Valentin Pepelea
is an operating system without virtue." Phone: (408) 249-6610
Usenet: netcom!valentin
- Ancient Inca Proverb Internet: vale...@netcom.com
Bill Sharp-Smith AUG
> CPUblit and ToolManager appear to have bugs under 2.04. There may be
>a new version off ToolManager that works better now, but I havn't missed it.
What version of Toolmanager are you using ? 1.5 is the latest as far as
I know. I use it all the time and have NEVER had a requester saying
Toolmanager has crashed. Of course, programs do crash occasionally, but
very rarely, and I've no reason to blame TM.
> --George
--
________________________________________________________________________
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[ / 7 /_/ /_7 //l/ / 7 | By post: PO Box 595, Cloverdale,W. Aust 6105 ]
[ Amiga Users Group of | ]
[ Western Australia Inc | Opinions expressed are my own etc... ]
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