Safe(r) Simul-climbing - New Method?
just_s...@my-deja.com
I don't keep up with rec.climbing, so this may be old news, but I don't
know of anybody else using this technique, so I'll throw it out there for
your enjoyment. Feel free to explain to me how dangerous and foolish it
is. I make no claims that it is fool proof, only safer than the old "two
climbers climbing with running belays between them which is great until
the second falls and pulls the leader off and they both whip and maybe
blow all their protection" method.
Jimmy Chin heard about a version of this method, using Ropemen, in
Yosemite last year. Jose and Dean were apparently playing around with it
while breaking the speed records on El Cap. <- (I could be wrong about
this, however.)
This method has literally CHANGED THE WAY I THINK ABOUT CLIMBING. I'm
not terribly bold, but Jimmy and I climbed Epinephrine in Red Rocks in
three pitches in 4 and 1/2 hours, went down, and climbed Prince of
Darkness in three pitches as well. This wasn't a psycho, let's show the
world what we can do affair. It was a great day of climbing with a good
friend, and felt pretty safe. Anyhow, here's the beta.
Note: I've been climbing for a long time and have a lot of experience.
Simul climbing is an inherently "hair ball" activity, but a really fun
and fast one. Don't try this at home unless you know what you're doing.
1: Go buy two of the new Petzl Tiblocs and have a buddy buy one or two
more as well. (No, I have nothing to gain from this.) The Ropeman
doesn't work nearly as well, so don't bother.
2: Bring more gear and quickdraws than you normally would and get ready
to run it out a bit. Do a nice long route that isn't too hard for you.
(IE Don't fall if you can help it.)
3: One guy starts leading, with all the gear, while the second belays on
a Gri-Gri.
4: Here's the trick. After going for 100-150 ft, the leader stops,
places a BOMBER piece, and clips the rope through the biner on the piece,
only with a Tibloc attatched to hold a DOWNWARD pull. The piece is
ideally multi-directional (bolt, two pieces in opposition, etc.), but
doesn't absolutely have to be, since the Tibloc adds almost no friction
to the system. Now the rope runs up through the piece like normal, but a
tug on the rope below the piece locks the Tibloc.
5: Leader calls, "Tibloc in!" and the second starts climbing, with the
Gri-gri still on the rope. The second can be clipped in short, but the
bulk of the rope should hang in a straight line below without any knots
so it doesn't get stuck on anything. However, if it's really windy,
you'll have to figure something else out (kiwi coil, backpack).
6: Leader and second climb at the same time. If the second blows it and
falls, the Tibloc catches the fall and doesn't pull the leader off for a
horror show simul-fall. If the leader falls, the rope comes tight on the
second and catches the leader's fall like normal, thanks to the Gri-gri.
If the second is climbing faster, he can pull rope in on the Gri-gri. If
he's climbing slower, he can let line out. If things get a bit too
intense, the second can clip into a piece of gear and belay like normal
until the leader gets through a hairy section.
7: Before the second reaches the first Tibloc, the leader places a
second Tibloc on another bomber piece. If the second reaches the Tibloc
first, he calls, "I'm at the Tibloc," stops, and belays until the leader
find a good place for another Tibloc, then starts simuling again.
8: Keep going until you run out of gear, run out of Tiblocs, or get to
the top in record speed!
Too good to be true? Maybe, but I don't think it will go the way of the
modified Gri-gri solo belay method of rec.climbing threads long past. A
friend (Evan Howe) of mine did some drop tests on the Tibloc in a gym,
using himself as the weight(!). He says it'll hold a factor one. You'd
really have to blow it as the second to put a factor one fall on the rope
below the Tibloc. If you're good enough to be using this system, you
should have the reflexes to grab the rope if you slip, or at least keep
most of the slack out of the line with the Gri-gri.
It reality, the leader has a blast leading a 300-600 ft pitch while the
second is busy cleaning gear and trying to keep the rope fairly tight,
while giving the leader slack when he needs it. Communication and
patience are key, as they are with most things. My partner and I haven't
taken a fall on this system yet, nor do I plan to. But as the leader,
running it out a bit with a second climbing unseen below you, it adds an
amount of piece of mind. It would be ok to make a mistake and fall. But
you still get to climb like Peter Croft and Hans and Dean and all those
bad-ass guys you read about. Jimmy Chin and I used this method while
climbing new routes on some relatively unknown spires in the Charakusa
valley in Pakistan this summer. It saved us hours.
So, there it is. Questions? Comments? Self rightously self indulgent
flames? Email me (just_s...@yahoo.com) or post.
Happy speed climbing. Be nice to all those old schoolers you pass.
-Brady Robinson
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
just_s...@my-deja.com
read the "Half Dome in a day with Has" post. Message 38 deals with the
Tibloc issue. The rope cutting thing is surprising, but it isn't a fatal
flaw, in my opinion. I certainly wouldn't liken Tibloc simul-climbing to
soloing, but it is a step or two above normal lead climbing.
If you're going to jug, the leader could plan it correctly so as not to
have a Tibloc in between when the second starts jugging. Or the leader
could pull tension on the line as the second weights it, but this
wouldn't be fool proof. Anyhow, climbing is a lot more fun that jugging.
It isn't clear to me that the second has to be stronger climber in the
system I describe. The leader needs to conserve gear and place bomber
Tiblocs. The second has his (her) hands full, but always has the line
from above to keep his confidence up. Both people need to be on top of
it.
Interesting that techniques naturally evolve as the technology changes.
Ted Compton
<rock...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In article <7ubr3g$e6f$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> ,
> just_s...@my-deja.com wrote:
snip
>but somebody brought up the fact that if the leader falls,
> there's a
> good chance of cutting the rope on the very thin top edge of the
> tibloc,
This is why I would suggest hanging the TIBLOC below the protection
biner. (see my post in "HDIAD with Hans" thread)
> plus if the second has too much slack above him/her when he/she
> falls, there
> is also a real good chance of shredding the rope, as the tibloc
> has some
> very wicked teeth,
The gri gri is part of the solution to this problem. Also suggested in
my HDIAD post is to leave balast weight on the TIBLOC setting biner to
insure that the teeth set immediately if the rope is weighted.
Ted(it is good to think all this stuff through before using the
system)Compton.
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Karl Lew
> more as well. (No, I have nothing to gain from this.) The Ropeman
> doesn't work nearly as well, so don't bother.
Hmm. Your post just got me thinking that the Tibloc might be just
the thing for managing rope drag/slack when rope-soloing. I've
tried clove hitches and prusiks on intermediate pieces but never
liked either method. Might try Tibloc next time...
--Karl
Bob Ternes
#> 1: Go buy two of the new Petzl Tiblocs and have a buddy buy one or two
#> more as well. (No, I have nothing to gain from this.) The Ropeman
#> doesn't work nearly as well, so don't bother.
#> -Brady Robinson
#
#Hmm. Your post just got me thinking that the Tibloc might be just
#the thing for managing rope drag/slack when rope-soloing. I've
#tried clove hitches and prusiks on intermediate pieces but never
#liked either method. Might try Tibloc next time...
#--Karl
Holy shit Karl, you are ostensibly some kind of serious genius!!!
Man, I will never try any sort of juju crap anymore! You know that feeling
when you have like 100 feet out below you, and your nearest belay is SOOO far,
and the rope keeps trying to pull itself out of your device and down back to
the belay, where it can hang in a big big big loop and wind itself around your
haulbag and generally make your life a living hell, or maybe the wind is
blowing and your rope is suddenly like 40 feet laterally???
Man, I've tried it all, 3mm prussic cord, clove hitches on bolts (insert high
pitched, strained, nervous, denial-of-mortality tittering laugh here),
1/2" tie-off klemheists, big 'stopper' knots that rest on locking biners
clipped to bomber pieces, etc, etc, etc.
Of course, the only problem with this is that after you fall, there will be
about 5 million tons (give or take) of tension all bound up by the Tibloc,
between it and the belay. Then again, my solo system is as of yet rather
untested (no big falls), i.e. I will probably have much bigger problems after
a huge solo whipper than some stupid rope tension way below me.
Bob 'Rope tension is stupid, god, it's so STUPID' Ternes
rte...@u.arizona.edu
Karl Lew
> #> more as well. (No, I have nothing to gain from this.) The Ropeman
> #> doesn't work nearly as well, so don't bother.
> #> -Brady Robinson
> #Hmm. Your post just got me thinking that the Tibloc might be just
> #the thing for managing rope drag/slack when rope-soloing. I've
> #tried clove hitches and prusiks on intermediate pieces but never
> #liked either method. Might try Tibloc next time...
> #--Karl
> Of course, the only problem with this is that after you fall, there will
be
> about 5 million tons (give or take) of tension all bound up by the Tibloc,
> between it and the belay. Then again, my solo system is as of yet rather
> untested (no big falls), i.e. I will probably have much bigger problems
after
> a huge solo whipper than some stupid rope tension way below me.
> Bob 'Rope tension is stupid, god, it's so STUPID' Ternes
(Musing some more)...y'know...the Tibloc shouldn't actually hold any load
in a rope-soloist fall, because it's the anchor that's holding all the load.
In the simulclimb case, a falling follower will load the Tibloc directly.
So...this Tibloc thing might just work for handling rope drag when
soloing. The only nasty gotcha I can see so far is that it would be bad
to fall right after you put in the Tibloc. Hey, Bob, go out and test this
for us. Take a few falls...y'know, all that. Let us know if it works. If
we don't hear from you, we'll assume it didn't...
8*) Karl
Karl Lew
Got some email asking what Bob and I were talking about
regarding rope soloing and Tiblocs, so here's a recap...
When you are rope soloing with a mechanical self-belay
device such as the most excellent Silent Partner, you
need the device to let out rope as you climb up from
the bottom anchor. However, as you climb, you eventually
reach a point on the pitch where the weight of the rope below
you will start pulling the rope thru the device even
when you *aren't* climbing. That's bad, because you now
get a lot of slack between you and the bottom anchor.
More slack, longer rides. The solution to the rope-pull
problem is to tie off the rope periodically to intermediate
anchors as you climb, so that the full rope weight is
never dragging on the self-belay device. Conventional
ways of tying off the rope include: 1) clove hitch,
2) prusik. Tying off the rope below you solves the
rope-pull problem but creates another problem of its
own--by tying the rope to intermediate anchors, you're
really creating another belay station. So you then have
to figure what happens if you fall (upward pull,
zippering, factor 2 falls, etc.). What a headache! One
compromise has been to make the prusiks out of thin
cord that will snap in a fall so that the full rope
(all the way down to the anchor) is available for
absorbing the shock of your fall. Thin cord loops tend to
snag and tangle, so they're not great, either. The Tibloc,
though, seems like it could be used in place of the
prusik: 1) it supports the weight of the rope below it,
and 2) it lets the rope move up and allows it to stretch
freely if you fall. Well...in theory, that is. Haven't
tried it. Maybe next year. Haven't climbed alone lately.
8*) Karl
Karl Baba
still pretty high on its advantages. He said jugging on it was the
problem during the Half Dome climb (he also said the rope wasn't that
tweaked either) and jugging vulnerability would be a point against
using it to keep the rope snug during aid soloing (especially if your
rappel of the haul line was far enough from the gear that you couldn't
undo the tibloc before jugging to clean.)
One thing I have used when rope soloing to keep the rope from dragging
back down but keeping the fall factor down is tying a knot above a
peice of bomber pro (sometimes like a slip knot loop that would come
out under slight pressure) it keeps the rope from slinking back down to
the belay but allows all the rope in the system to belay you (rather
than clove-hitching to a peice and putting yourself in factor 2 land
again)
Peace
Karl
http://extra.newsguy.com/~climbing/
Yosemite Area Guiding (remove NOSPAM from the return address)
Karl Baba
climbing where you can undo the tibloc when rapping the line to clean
but folks should remember it's not a good idea to jug on the Tibloc.
I tie a loose slip knot loop above the biner on a good piece to keep
the rope from falling down without creating a new belay station. The
knot will pull through under mild pressure but will keep the rope from
sliding back to the anchors
Peace
Karl
In article <380be00f$0$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com>, "Karl Lew"
<ka...@climerware.com> wrote:
> 8*) Karl
Bill Wright
Karl Baba <gu...@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote:
> I talked to Hans regarding the Tibloc for simul-climbing and he is
> still pretty high on its advantages. He said jugging on it was the
> problem during the Half Dome climb (he also said the rope wasn't that
> tweaked either) and jugging vulnerability would be a point against
> using it to keep the rope snug during aid soloing (especially if your
> rappel of the haul line was far enough from the gear that you couldn't
> undo the tibloc before jugging to clean.)
>
> One thing I have used when rope soloing to keep the rope from dragging
> back down but keeping the fall factor down is tying a knot above a
> peice of bomber pro (sometimes like a slip knot loop that would come
> out under slight pressure) it keeps the rope from slinking back down
to
> the belay but allows all the rope in the system to belay you (rather
> than clove-hitching to a peice and putting yourself in factor 2 land
> again)
While Hans was indeed high on these devices for simul-climbing I don't
know if that is still the case. There was a near disaster using these
devices when he set the Half Dome speed record with Jim Herson. Jim
will NOT use Tiblocs for simul-climbing. If you look at how Tibloc's
work, they are not reliable in this context. Tibloc's must be actively
weighted to work properly, otherwise you are relying on the thickness
of the biner to press the rope tightly against the teeth. This is why I
think the active mini-ascenders are a much safer and more reliable way
to go.
Bill
Mike Yukish
<snip>
>Tying off the rope below you solves the
>rope-pull problem but creates another problem of its
>own--by tying the rope to intermediate anchors, you're
>really creating another belay station. So you then have
>to figure what happens if you fall (upward pull,
>zippering, factor 2 falls, etc.). What a headache! One
>compromise has been to make the prusiks out of thin
>cord that will snap in a fall so that the full rope
>(all the way down to the anchor) is available for
>absorbing the shock of your fall.
Without giving it much thought...what if you tied a munter hitch at
the biner? A friction knot that should hold the slack, but not a real
pull? I'm trying to picture it myself...
*****************************
Mike Yukish
may...@psu.edu
Applied Research Lab/Penn State U.
Karl Lew
> the biner? A friction knot that should hold the slack, but not a real
> pull? I'm trying to picture it myself...
I don't know, Mike. Seems like the Munter would zipper the piece
it was attached to unless you set an opposing piece for upward pull?
--Karl
Karl Lew
> the rope from falling down without creating a new belay station. The
> knot will pull through under mild pressure but will keep the rope from
> sliding back to the anchors
Interesting! I assume the slip knot isn't attached to anything and is
just sorta lying on the biner?
--Karl
maohai huang
: It isn't clear to me that the second has to be stronger climber in the
: system I describe. The leader needs to conserve gear and place bomber
: Tiblocs. The second has his (her) hands full, but always has the line
: from above to keep his confidence up. Both people need to be on top of
: it.
:
Even without the Tibloc, if the route is not particularly technical (class
3 to low 5 on some rock steps / spires), sometimes it's better to let the
stronger climber lead during simul-climbing, since he/she is often the
better route finder. During short sections were the seconder feels the
moves are hairy, he/she just shout to ask for some rope tension. With a top
rope the weaker (second) climber will climb faster. So will the entire
team.
Joseph Healy
I have always used the old "Yosemite Roped Solo" technique (labeled as such
in an old big wall climbing book [forget the name]). Everytime I do it
(last was a couple of weeks ago), I usually end up a climbing store looking
at solo devices which seem either too complex, sketchy, or big and end up
back with YRS the next time I'm out. This time I'll give your suggestions a
try...
Joseph Healy
Karl Baba <gu...@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote in message
news:181019992152141429%gu...@NOSPAMnewsguy.com...
> I talked to Hans regarding the Tibloc for simul-climbing and he is
> still pretty high on its advantages. He said jugging on it was the
> problem during the Half Dome climb (he also said the rope wasn't that
> tweaked either) and jugging vulnerability would be a point against
> using it to keep the rope snug during aid soloing (especially if your
> rappel of the haul line was far enough from the gear that you couldn't
> undo the tibloc before jugging to clean.)
>
> One thing I have used when rope soloing to keep the rope from dragging
> back down but keeping the fall factor down is tying a knot above a
> peice of bomber pro (sometimes like a slip knot loop that would come
> out under slight pressure) it keeps the rope from slinking back down to
> the belay but allows all the rope in the system to belay you (rather
> than clove-hitching to a peice and putting yourself in factor 2 land
> again)
>
> Peace
Bob Ternes
#> I tie a loose slip knot loop above the biner on a good piece to keep
#> the rope from falling down without creating a new belay station. The
#> knot will pull through under mild pressure but will keep the rope from
#> sliding back to the anchors
#> Karl Baba
#
#Interesting! I assume the slip knot isn't attached to anything and is
#just sorta lying on the biner?
#--Karl
Yeah, this is a good one, but remember to use a LOCKER where the knot is
lying.
Bob Ternes
rte...@u.arizona.edu
Karl Lew
> lying.
> Bob Ternes
Clip not unlocked slip knots.
--Karl "three times quickly, please"
Karl Baba
Keep in mind that my suggestion was only for keeping the rope from
slinking back down to the belay when roped soloing and far advanced up
the pitch. I use a silent partner and I think is is the only
reasonable way to fly if you are trying to free climb much.
For aid climbing you can use a solo aid or a clove hitch or many
things. (I have a solo aid for sale $50 plus shipping)
Bill
I will keep my ears open about a simul-climbing solutions that is
optimal. The art is evolving quickly and something will prove superior,
hopefully soon.
Peace
Karl
In article <s0piso...@corp.supernews.com>, "Joseph Healy"
Karl Baba
Yup, it is just enough knot to keep from passing back down through the
biner
Karlee
In article <7ui3nq$mfk$1...@news.intuit.com>, "Karl Lew"
<ka...@climerware.com> wrote:
> > I tie a loose slip knot loop above the biner on a good piece to keep
> > the rope from falling down without creating a new belay station. The
> > knot will pull through under mild pressure but will keep the rope from
> > sliding back to the anchors
> > Karl Baba
>
> Interesting! I assume the slip knot isn't attached to anything and is
> just sorta lying on the biner?
> --Karl
Joseph Healy
this one.
You said you liked the silent partner, don't you find it kind of awkwardly
large?
Do you leave the rope hanging or do you carry it with you by some means
(pack, bag, loops, etc...)?
How do you attach it (as per manuf. or otherwise?
I admit it seems to feed pretty well, it just seems big, though when I think
of all the knots and bieners for YRS I suppose its not really that imposing.
Joseph Healy
Karl Baba
cares?
I don't quite follow the manual cause that would mean too many ropes
hanging off me. I haven't used it long or hard enough to wire my
system so I will have to post the real beta later.
Karl
In article <s0qtls...@corp.supernews.com>, "Joseph Healy"
<joseph...@avasys.t.com> wrote:
jf
want to be juggin on any piece on the pitch. when the rope pull downward
gets to bad take a thick rubberband and girth hitch around the rope, pull
the rope tight and clip it through a piece. If you fall the rubberband
brakes, and when you jug it does the same. waste of a rubberband but nice
little trick.
Thad
Karl Lew
with the newspaper.
8*) Karl
jf <vfr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7uldh8$hh8$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
Jeremy Pulcifer
rope to them. Any reason not to do this?
Jeremy Pulcifer
Data Architect/Database Developer
Advanced Systems International
25300 Telegraph Rd. Suite# 455
Southfield, MI 48075
(248) 263-0000 ext. 104
jpul...@advsysintl.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Baba [SMTP:gu...@nospamnewsguy.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 1:08 AM
> To: rec.cl...@list.deja.com
> Subject: Re: Rope soloing and rope-pull
>
> Message from the Deja.com forum:
> rec.climbing
> Your subscription is set to individual email delivery
> >
> I think you method might work for roped solo free-climbing or aid
> climbing where you can undo the tibloc when rapping the line to clean
> but folks should remember it's not a good idea to jug on the Tibloc.
>
> I tie a loose slip knot loop above the biner on a good piece to keep
> the rope from falling down without creating a new belay station. The
> knot will pull through under mild pressure but will keep the rope from
> sliding back to the anchors
>
> Peace
>
> Karl
>
>
> In article <380be00f$0$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com>, "Karl Lew"
> <ka...@climerware.com> wrote:
>
> > (...continued from simul-climbing New method)
> >
> > Got some email asking what Bob and I were talking about
> > regarding rope soloing and Tiblocs, so here's a recap...
> >
> > When you are rope soloing with a mechanical self-belay
> > device such as the most excellent Silent Partner, you
> > need the device to let out rope as you climb up from
> > the bottom anchor. However, as you climb, you eventually
> > reach a point on the pitch where the weight of the rope below
> > you will start pulling the rope thru the device even
> > when you *aren't* climbing. That's bad, because you now
> > get a lot of slack between you and the bottom anchor.
> > More slack, longer rides. The solution to the rope-pull
> > problem is to tie off the rope periodically to intermediate
> > anchors as you climb, so that the full rope weight is
> > never dragging on the self-belay device. Conventional
> > ways of tying off the rope include: 1) clove hitch,
> > 2) prusik. Tying off the rope below you solves the
> > rope-pull problem but creates another problem of its
> > own--by tying the rope to intermediate anchors, you're
> > really creating another belay station. So you then have
> > to figure what happens if you fall (upward pull,
> > zippering, factor 2 falls, etc.). What a headache! One
> > compromise has been to make the prusiks out of thin
> > cord that will snap in a fall so that the full rope
> > (all the way down to the anchor) is available for
> > absorbing the shock of your fall. Thin cord loops tend to
> > snag and tangle, so they're not great, either. The Tibloc,
> > though, seems like it could be used in place of the
> > prusik: 1) it supports the weight of the rope below it,
> > and 2) it lets the rope move up and allows it to stretch
> > freely if you fall. Well...in theory, that is. Haven't
> > tried it. Maybe next year. Haven't climbed alone lately.
> > 8*) Karl
> http://extra.newsguy.com/~climbing/
> Yosemite Area Guiding (remove NOSPAM from the return address)
>
>
>
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> om%3E
Undercling
I believe you are saying that as you lead solo, you are tying in to points
along the way in your lead. My response to that is:
You reduce the all-important ability of the rope to absorb the impact of your
solo fall, by tying in at points closer and shorter than the original tie-in.
Think of the lead rope as a big bungee cord, the shorter the less energy it can
absorb by itself. The anchor/belay/tie-in has to be good, otherwise you don't
climb the pitch and assuming it is good, then tying in along the way needlessly
worsens any forces that might develop on the anchor, the top point, and the
lead system.
Peter Haan
The Undercling
Bob Ternes
#I usually place a couple of cams/big nuts in opposition midway and clove the
#rope to them. Any reason not to do this?
#
#Jeremy Pulcifer
#Data Architect/Database Developer
Cause you in the JUNGLE baiby!
And you gonna DIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Trust me, don't do this. No, you probably won't die. Just don't do this,
unless you want to destabilize your best pieces in a worst conditions
fall... And increase the fall factors on them since there is less rope
out...And also unless you don't like alot of rope stretch in a fall...
<staccato>Ah a </staccato>ahhh , think before you reply....
But hey, you clip an intermediate belay, and all bets are off!
Bob 'I wonder how deja readers will see / hear my ersatz html!' Ternes
rte...@u.arizona.edu
Jeremy Pulcifer
Jeremy Pulcifer
Data Architect/Database Developer
Advanced Systems International
25300 Telegraph Rd. Suite# 455
Southfield, MI 48075
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Healy [SMTP:joseph...@avasys.t.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 3:49 PM
> To: rec.cl...@list.deja.com
> Subject: Re: Safe(r) Simul-climbing - New Method?
>
> Message from the Deja.com forum:
> rec.climbing
> Your subscription is set to individual email delivery
> >
> > Karl
> > http://extra.newsguy.com/~climbing/
> > Yosemite Area Guiding (remove NOSPAM from the return address)
>
>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Deja.com: Before you buy.
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spleenwort
Jeremy Pulcifer <jpul...@advsysintl.com> wrote in message
news:8217A39B785DD2118F5A00A0C9CE08E75BA4D4@ADM-SV01...
> Define "Yosemite Rope Solo" technique, please.
Jeremy, the post you are responding to was meant for the roped solo thread,
not simul-climbing, but here goes your description...
[I originally saw this technique in 1975 in Boulder Mountaneering sitting on
the floor reading a book titled, I believe, "Big Wall Climbing" [It was a
thick hard cover and had a lot of rather nice drawings illustrating
techniques vs. photos], and this roped solo method was called the "YRS" (do
any of you other old guys that are from Yosemite recall any such thing?
Coming from Illinois, I pretty much took anything I discovered / learned /
read / overheard west of the Mississippi as gospel...). Anyway, the next
day I provided some fabulously hilarious entertainment to the locals
climbing at Castle Rock while I tried to figure it all out on a roof there.
But the next day I did the Bastille Crack and was off and running with it
from that point forward and have always loved the serenity of it once the
fear dissapates into bliss after a pitch or two...]
1) Tie a figure eight at a rope's mid-point (I use a 65m, 10.5mm rope).
2) Coil half the rope and put it over your shoulder with the the trailing
rope and figure eight behind you (I usually have it over my right shoulder
draping on my left side and my rack on my right).
3) Clip a locking biener w/ the gate down and out on the right side of your
your waist belt, and clip the figure eight into it. (see harness note at
bottom of post...).
4) Clip six more regular bieners down and out on your waist belt between the
locking biener and the normal front rope tie in point.
5) Starting at the mid-point figure eight, tie a figure eight every 15 feet
or so and clip each one into successive bieners along side the first locking
one. You should end up with a figure eight in the end of the rope clipped
into to the a second locking biener next to your normal front rope tie-in
point. You will now have about eight big loops of rope coming off the front
right of your harness.
6) Set a bomber anchor holding an upward pull and clip the end figure eight
loop (the one on the end of the rope on the first biener next to your normal
rope tie-in point).
7) Start climbing placing pro and clipping it normally, dropping figure
eight knots off your harness as you go (make sure the gate is locked on that
last one!). [Don't clip the figure eight knots into your pro, but do make
sure a knot is above a piece of pro it the rope will allow it.]
8) When you are down (up) to the locking beiner you're at the rope's
mid-point. Set a good downward (or better, a bi-directional up/down) anchor
and clip yourself into it with a sling or daisy chain. Remove the mid-point
figure eight off the locking biener and clip it into your anchor.
9) Uncoil the half a rope you have over your shoulder, throw it down and rap
back to the beginning of the pitch.
10) Clean the bottom anchor, clip the figure eight that was on the anchor
onto the locking biener next to your normal front rope tie-in point.
11) Second the pitch cleaning and re-racking as normal, and reclipping the
figure eight knots back onto the bieners on your waist harness.
12) When you get back up to your high-point anchor, clip in with a sling or
daisy chain, recoil the half rope you just rapped on and put it back over
your shoulder (or leave it hanging, up to you...), take the rope's mid-point
figure eight off the high point anchor in front of you and put it back on
the right-most locking biener.
Go back up to 6[.5]) and repeat steps 6-12 until you are at the top.
It seems unwieldy and strange at first, but after a pitch or two I get
pretty comfortable with it all and rarely, if ever, get things tangled up.
I've been doing it reliably for 22 years and the system uses no mechanical
devices save for carabieners. Because there are no belays I can usually
climb a route in about 1/2 - 2/3's the time of a two-person team even though
I climb the pitches twice.
Over the years I've looked at every mechanical soloing device / technique I
came across(except Silent Partner 'til the other day) and never liked the
look or feel of any of them and so always just used the YRS. After hearing
others' enthusiasm for the Silent Partner I went and looked at it and other
than being a tad big I think I will probably get one and start using it as
it as I think it would be a lot cleaner a system on the whole.
Joseph Healy
=============================================
Harness setup note:
=============================================
You have to have a harness set up some how to do this, as you need to have 8
carabieners hanging off you waist harness w/ the gates down and out (and one
of them locking). Metolius custom made one up for me a while back that has
8 super tape loops sown vertically around the front right of the harness.
These loops wrap completely around the waist belt with a short loop to clip
a carabiener in coming off the bottom edge of the waist belt. Before that I
used a harness with a piece of one inch webbing that tied in front on the
waist loop, went around the right to the back tie point, with a couple of
tacks in the middle (sort of like extended gear loops, but these lay flat on
the waist harness and don't droop off it).
Gustaaf Wijnands
minimum fall-factor is 1?
Gustaaf Wijnands
remove the obvious from address
spleenwort wrote in message ...
>
spleenwort
Gustaaf Wijnands <gust...@theobviousxs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:7ut2dr$p95$2...@news1.xs4all.nl...
> Interesting technique, but do i understand you correctly if i say that the
> minimum fall-factor is 1?
Gustaaf, I don't know much about fall-factors or quite how to interpret your
question. But climbing with the YRS technique is no different than leading
with a partner except there is (hopefully) no slip or give at the belay
(anchor). Other than that you can still pretty much bust your ass as badly
as climbing with a partner depending on how far you run it out...
Joseph
spleenwort
> Joseph,
Okay Gustaff, I understand now. No, in the YRS (or any other method I know)
you should NOT clip those figure eight knots into the pro. What you should
do, if rope stretch allows, is keep the knots above any nearby pro whenever
possible. Again, you don't clip the knots to the pro.
Sorry if I was unclear.
Joseph
Gustaaf Wijnands
My question was a little unclear. I always understood that as little
"burden" on your protection system as possible. That's why we climb with
dynamic ropes, and it's not recommended to use a gri-gri when doing leading
alpine climbing. If there occurs a fall, the shock on the protection and on
your harnas should be as little as possible. I have always learned that the
fall-factor (the length of the rope which is to catch the fall divided by
the length of the fall) is of mayor importance. And if I understand the
YRS-technique correctly (of which I'm not completely sure, because english
is not my mothertongue, and next to that in this ng the contributors use
rather much slang), the climber connects the rope and every point of
protection with a figure eight-knot. In that way the minimum fall-factor is
one, and that is rather much. I wouldn't take that risk climbing with nuts
and/or friends, and was surprised that this - in my opinion not really safe
way of climbing - has been evolved in a method. The question i raised was in
the first place a expression of this surprise.
spleenwort wrote in message ...
>Gustaaf, I don't know much about fall-factors or quite how to interpret
Gustaaf Wijnands
your initial message, I found out that you did describe it correctly. In 7.
you wrote:
"7) Start climbing placing pro and clipping it normally, dropping figure
eight knots off your harness as you go (make sure the gate is locked on that
last one!). [Don't clip the figure eight knots into your pro, but do make
sure a knot is above a piece of pro it the rope will allow it.]"
Sorry, missed that one.