Ebay Problem

[DocRotCod]

Just to let everyone know, I posted up a sweet Ms. Pac Man upright and
within 2 days it had met it's reserve of $750. Get up this morning and
whoa! Ebay ends the auction. I'm told to contact Hyoshimoto at Namco.
WTF? This really blows!!!!! Everyone be aware! I'm not sure why it was
ended to this minute. I'm really confused and of course no email responses.

[(Classicade) Bret Pehrson]

Check google groups -- this particular issue of Namco trying to assert their
copyright on reproduced art was recently discussed in further detail.

--
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Classicade
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[Ignus Fast]

I just saw this at RePlay Magazine's site:

NAMCO SUES OVER ALLEGED COUNTERFEIT GAMES

(posted Wednesday, April 9, 2003 -- 3PM)

Video game maker Namco, which owns the rights to the popular Pac-Man and
Galaga video games, announced today that it had filed a suit and obtained an
injunction against a seller of alleged counterfeit arcade video games, PC
Amusements of Orlando, Florida, and its owner, Luis Molinary. The
counterfeit video games were being sold to the public from various outlets,
including Internet auction sites. Namco filed suit in the Orlando Federal
District Court, and the court granted an order allowing the United States
Marshal service to seize and impound the video games and parts in question.
Namco America's president Kevin Hayes said: "The Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man and
Galaga video games are still popular in the United States even after 20
years from their introduction. Namco continues to sell various models of our
20 Year Reunion: Class of '81 Ms. Pac-Man / Galaga, incorporating Pac-Man.
The market has responded by buying over 13,000 of the new game consoles, and
sales are still brisk. Namco will not hesitate to enforce its strong
intellectual property rights, trademarks and copyrights against those who
seek to trade on its valuable video game properties." Neil A. Smith,
intellectual property specialist attorney at Howard Rice Nemerovski Falk
Canady & Rabkin in San Francisco, counsel to Namco, said, "The courts will
grant immediate restraining orders and seizure orders when provided with
strong evidence of trademark and copyright counterfeiting, as is the case
here." When contacted by RePlay today, Molinary said that his company had
ceased making replacement graphics for Pac-Man games more than six months
ago, but conceded that they had reproduced graphics in the past and in some
cases used them in conjunction with boards purchased from importers. PC
Amusements repairs or restores and then resells arcade video and pinball
games, and often reproduces graphics for those games as well as for other
companies. "Everybody and their dog had been doing the same thing (with
Pac-Man artwork) and we didn't know it was illegal," he said. "All they
needed to do was send us a letter. If we are infringing on somebody's
copyright we want to know. We cease and desist as soon as we receive a
letter." Molinary said he hoped to see the issue settled out of court. The
suit seeks an injunction, money damages and attorneys' fees. In addition to
the Seizure Order, the Federal Court issued a Restraining Order. Namco
cautioned its customers to buy only from authorized Namco dealers and
distributors. For more information contact the Namco America sales office at
630/238-2248.

Ignus

"DocRotCod" <rah...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Ge1la.33489$It5....@news2.central.cox.net...

[Ron Lyons]

Had you put any new side art or anything restored on it? Hmmm... maybe they
suspect it's a fake, or they're going to complain about the resto pieces you
put on it (assuming you did)? They're making big money on the pac/galaga
combo, so maybe they're trying to get people for copyright infringement. I
dunno.

"DocRotCod" <rah...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Ge1la.33489$It5....@news2.central.cox.net...

[Andy Warren]

Damn!
Makes me want to put up a "counterfeit" auction of a counterfeit PAC-MAN.
Andy W.
"Ignus Fast" <p...@nope.org> wrote in message
news:nO1la.33624$It5....@news2.central.cox.net...

[Joey]

It sounds like PC Amusements/Arcadegrafix/??? is in hot water..

Joey
joeycuda at hotmail dot com

"Ignus Fast" <p...@nope.org> wrote in message
news:nO1la.33624$It5....@news2.central.cox.net...

[Joey]

It sounds like PC Amusements/Arcadegrafix/??? is in hot water..

Joey
joeycuda at hotmail dot com

"Ignus Fast" <p...@nope.org> wrote in message
news:nO1la.33624$It5....@news2.central.cox.net...

[Steve]

This really sucks! I was about to put my Ms Pacman on e-pay.
Guess I'll try selling it locally first.

Steve

DocRotCod <rah...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Ge1la.33489$It5....@news2.central.cox.net...

[Mike Sandwick]

Happened to me this morning - ebay pulled my partially restored Pac-Man
cocktail - I had a multi - kit in mine though.

Mike

"DocRotCod" <rah...@cox.net> wrote in
news:Ge1la.33489$It5....@news2.central.cox.net:

[PA]

damn that's messed up. Well I guess we can thank PC amusements for mass
producing those games causing Namco to look into the repro thing further.
I'm sure Namco is now paying more then one person to sit on eBay all the
time and look for anything they can claim as copywrited material! blah!

"Mike Sandwick" <msan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZD6la.420684$S_4.490182@rwcrnsc53...

[mgabrys]

"Steve" <za...@sonic.net> wrote in message news:<VH3la.4283$JX2.3...@typhoon.sonic.net>...

I think it's time to poison the well.

Let Namco know that if they insist on harassing vendors and people
servicing their older product (which is exactly what they're trying to
do since they want people to buy new product) that their largest
user-base will avoid business with every vendor that sells their new
machines, as well as contact media outlets with stories related to
this garbage.

I think dedication is proving itself to be it's worst enemy right now
- and it's time the manufacturers know this. I own a Pac-Man cocktail
from 1980 right now, and if they insist on infringing on my rights to
sell or do with it what I please, then I'll be happy to contact the
ACLU and appropriate legal parties to lay claim to my rights being
violated by this nonsense.

These are the same strong arm tactics that got Nintendo and Microsoft
in hot water, and it's pathetic that the guys who stole patent info
from Nintendo 10 years plus ago (Tengen vs Nintendo re: NES guardian
chips) are trying to pull the same legal crap.

Montgomery (Monty) Gabrys
mga...@netherworld.com

[ED209]

I agree with Monty, it's time to get ugly. At this point the collecting
community has nothing to lose, and this is exacting the kind of "David vs.
Goliath" story that the media loves. If something isn't done, it's not a
stretch to imagine Namco raiding collectors homes to confiscate games and
material that they consider to be in violation of their copyright.

Rick

"mgabrys" <mga...@netherworld.com> wrote in message
news:fe8baf7e.03040...@posting.google.com...

[Ron Lyons]

I realize it's bad for us collectors, but they pretty much have a lock-tite
case. If you're reproducing things with their copyrighted logo or name on
it, they have the right to intervene. I want cheap resto stuff as much as
the rest of you, but that's just how it is.

"PA" <phillyNOa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:GDWdnVoBeaf...@comcast.com...

[Mange]

OK, so can't sell a pac with repro art. What about one repainted using the
stencils?

[Jeff Waldron]

I would suggest saying that the artwork is "like new". You could also refer
to a web site for more information, then post a better description.
Hopefully the NAMCO scanners won't pick it up.

I just got a Ms Pac Jamma PCB that I thought about making a cabinet around.
Looks like that could never see ebay!

Jeff Waldron
http://home.attbi.com/~jeffsgames

"Mange" <ma...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:v9b6208...@corp.supernews.com...

[MARK]

Can you show a link to the auction?I would like to see why they did that.

--
THANKS MARK,

MARKLINE VENDING
BUY/SELL/TRADE/VIDEO GAMES
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516-678-9671

"DocRotCod" <rah...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Ge1la.33489$It5....@news2.central.cox.net...

[Ron Lyons]

I would imagine the problem is that it's reproduced art you bought
somewhere. If the art has been repainted, you only did it to the machine
you own, so they have no right to intervene. The problem is when you put
something wit the pac man logo on it, that you bought from somewhere; they
didn't sell it, so it's infringing on their copyright. If you paint your
own cabinet, you're not infringing on the copyright, since your'e not paying
someone for the pac-man name or logo.

If you put it up like others said with 'like new art' or with 'restored'
art, they shouldn't be able to do anything. If you mention that you've put
reproduction art on it, you'll get it yanked, though.

Just my .02

"Mange" <ma...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:v9b6208...@corp.supernews.com...

[vairxpert]

On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 23:13:23 GMT, "Ignus Fast" <p...@nope.org> wrote:

>" When contacted by RePlay today, Molinary said that his company had
>ceased making replacement graphics for Pac-Man games more than six months
>ago, but conceded that they had reproduced graphics in the past and in some
>cases used them in conjunction with boards purchased from importers.

It's hard to tell from that article if they're restoring old games or
making "new games". Sorry, but if it's counterfeit games...that's
going WAY over the edge. Boards purchased from importers? Would
another name for that be bootleg? What's the difference between this
and selling a MAME machine on ebay pre-loaded with thousands of roms?
A lot of what we do is gray area as it is and all it takes is one
company to really push the boundaries and bring everybody out into the
limelight.

[Ron Lyons]

I agree totally. I think it's fine if someone does it themselves, for their
own personal use, or as a hobby, whatever... but if you've got companies
"importing" pac boards (Like you said, assuredly they're bootlegs), and
printing their own side art, etc. to construct pac games, then sell them for
thousands on ebay, that's illegal anyway you look at it. I know I've seen a
few pac/galaga's that you could tell were bootlegs, so if I were namco, I'd
probably do the same thing.
"vairxpert" <vair...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e95e8f...@news.netnitco.net...

[mgabrys]

I also think that the SEC, the FTC, and the Wall Street community at
large would be interested in any collusion regarding eBay and Namco in
their conduct which smacks of "restraint of trade" to the collecting
and restoration industry.

Consider this also - I contacted Namco several times on replacement
parts for my Pac-Man machine and got no response. None. However, am I
now forbidden from buying parts from a second unlicensed party because
future resell opportunities may be infringed or interfered with by
Namco? That is certainly what their conduct seems to indicate - and
yes - it stinks to high heaven.

I think the feds would - also - love to hear the story of illegal
trade conduct against domestic after-market businesses in a down
economy, which would play well against the unethical conducts of late
with most media sources.

Between the media and the feds, I'm sure a nice little Pan-Pacific
stink could be generated with - very - little effort. I could draft a
letter of concern regarding business practices for Wired Magazine's
parousal - Steve Kent of USA Today's Interactive columnist, and Steven
Levy of MSNBC.com & Newsweek. If you'd like to review it here prior to
it's submission or add anything/change anything let me know and I'll
post it to rgvac.

I'd persoanlly LOVE to see how eBay's PR machine would handle
inquiries of collusion as a publically traded company and the
uncertain risk such publicity would have on it's present stock
valuation - particularly if whispers of an SEC, FTC, or DOJ
investigation were to follow.

I'd be laughing if the whole situation didn't stink to high heaven of
ethical chutzpa following the brazen behavior of the recording
industry as of late. It's pathetic!

Montgomery (Monty) Gabrys
mga...@netherworld.com

"ED209" <ma...@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message news:<tMcla.2977$RE3.3...@twister.southeast.rr.com>...

[Ron Lyons]

As I see it, and I could be very, very wrong... it's their
trademark/copyright, and they have the right to stop the sale of illegally
printed graphics. It's as simple as that. If I make a game called
"Mailbox" and then someone starts making stickers for the side of the game
that look just like mine, I have every right to sue them. It's cut and dry,
the way I see it. Even if they say "but you don't make ms. pac parts
anymore" it doesn't matter, since they're still capitalizing off of the ms.
pac name. I know it sucks for us collectors, but it's just the law.

"mgabrys" <mga...@netherworld.com> wrote in message

news:fe8baf7e.03041...@posting.google.com...

[David Widel]

I'm not a lawyer but I seem to remember the car companies tried that and
lost. They no longer produced emblems for older models so they didn't have
the right to stop people from reproducing the chrysler logo. It was their
responsibility to continue to supply parts and they didn't.

Dave

"Ron Lyons" <Lyons...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:h0nla.2634$ij4.4...@twister.southeast.rr.com...

[Tom Lavier]

How would Namco know that you didn't buy licensed art from two-bit?

[Ron Lyons]

Good question, I don't know, I'm sure it's not readily apparent from the
picture. That's the only reason I could see that they would have to stop
the auction legally.
"Tom Lavier" <tla...@STOPSPAMsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:TGnla.3703$1b1.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[Erik Sommerdyk]

its gone.

invalid auction

--
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