Baha'i Invitation to Paul Hammond
reli...@yahoo.com
Many Baha'is have been watching how you have bravely supported them in
their fight recently against the ex-baha'i dissident enemies of the
Faith here on TRB . Dear paul, Millions of people are opening their
hearts and souls to you. Open up the website below and hear that long
forgotten Christian hymn "when the roll is called up yonder I will be
there"
http://www.geocities.com/~quddus/nocult.html
Paul you must accept Jesus into your heart first before you can accept
Baha'u'llah. You have now been in correspondence with good Baha'is and
bad dissident ex-Baha'is for over two years here on TRB. Now is the
time for you to decide to come over the river and sign up a member of
the Baha'i Faith. It is just as simple as picking a Baha'i rose at the
bottom of this message.
Are you ready Paul to join the Baha'i faith so when the roll is called
up yonder you will be there. All dissident ex Baha'is are doomed to
the fire, surely you dont want to join them do you?
Reliplur
A Brief Word on "Cult"
A couple of years ago, I had occasion to write the following letter to
the minister of a local church for reasons that become obvious as you
read it. I never heard another word from that minister.
The Baha'i friends in my community felt this letter should be
publicized. From my perspective as its author, you are free to use it
or any part of it as you see fit, but I would recommend consulting
with your local Spiritual Assembly first, if you're a Baha'i. If
you're not yet a Baha'i, I hope this will help your understanding of
the Faith.
The Rev. _________
Pastor of ______ Church
Dear Pastor ____:
God bless you, and I thank you for your call last Saturday in which
you expressed a desire to understand more about the Baha'i Faith. We
fully sympathize with your immediate concern to "protect your flock,"
but your repeated use of the word "cult" during our conversation
indicates that you truly are unaware of the Baha'i message. No
legitimate definition of that word found anywhere that I've looked
applies to the Baha'i Faith. (I say legitimate because I realize that
a few people, totally careless of the slanderous nature of the word
and the pain it may cause innocent people, apply it to anybody who
doesn't adhere to their specific belief.)
We do not proselytize. Our own laws forbid it. But we do believe that
everyone who wants to hear the Word of God should have the
opportunity, and that's all we are offering. Almost two years ago, the
Hobbs Baha'is undertook a project to send an information package to
every known religious leader in the Hobbs area. The local newspaper
published our story about the effort. Our intent was to make the
entire church community aware that we would be increasing our effort
to make the offer of information to more people. Our records do not
indicate that your name was on our list. Perhaps we missed you.
Perhaps you are new to the community. Either way, I would be happy to
fill the gap and provide you with a complete package if you request
it.
Points of Unity
We seek points of unity, not divisiveness. That's because we believe
that where we agree is so much more important. See if you have a
problem with any of the following beliefs and assertions of the Baha'i
Faith:
* The God of Adam, Abraham and Moses is the Creator.
* God is also Infinite Love, Mercy, and Justice.
* There is only one God.
* Jesus is the Son of God.
* Jesus is Divine.
* The Virgin Mary bore Jesus as a result of immaculate conception.
* Man cannot know God except through Jesus.
* When they crucified Jesus, He died for me.
* God requires and expects us to pray.
* God requires and expects us to love one another.
* God requires and expects us to develop virtues.
* Among those virtues are honesty, trustworthiness, chastity, and
patience.
These and many more are what I consider very important points of unity
between us. These points, to me, far out-weigh any points of
disagreement. I am a Baha'i because of my love for Jesus. Anyone who
becomes a Baha'i must accept Jesus regardless of his previous
religious background. I do not expect you to believe what I believe,
only to understand that I believe it and that I try to live it.
Asking Honest Appraisal
If you choose to discuss the Baha'i Faith with the rest of your
congregation, to "warn" them if you will, we will not be surprised.
But I would ask that you investigate a little further. Then, you will
find that using the word "cult" would be both unnecessary and untrue.
I, too, have children whom I have taught to love God, to pray daily,
and to be more than tolerant of, actually embracing in friendliness,
the followers of other religions. Such language strikes at the heart.
They've spent their lives attending Baha'i meetings, and they know
that the atrocities associated with "cults" do not happen among us.
Elected Spiritual Assemblies
All I know about cults is what I read in the papers or the dictionary.
Nevertheless, I understand some cults follow a living charismatic
leader. We have none, charismatic or otherwise. We elect local,
national and international bodies to serve our administrative needs,
but our only "leader" is God. None of the elected bodies can pass
legislation contrary to what has already been laid down in our
Scripture. Those elected consider themselves servants, not
authorities.
Freedom of Choice
I also understand some cults don't let you out once you're in. All it
takes in the Baha'i Faith is a personally written letter to our
National Spiritual Assembly stating that you no longer believe, and
your name is immediately removed from our rolls. We're saddened to see
someone do this, but it does not lessen our love for him or her. As
long as they wish, they are welcomed back, as visitors if they so
desire.
Clear Minds and Bodies
I also understand some cults require the use of certain drugs or
alcohol in their rituals. The Baha'i teachings strictly forbid any use
of alcohol or drugs unless prescribed by a qualified physician.
Independent Investigation
I also understand some cults "brainwash" their members and don't let
them study anything but the cult message. The Baha'i Faith encourages
universal education, urging everyone to become well-rounded in
knowledge. This includes any study one wishes to make of any other
religious teachings. As you know, Jesus told us to "Watch" and Paul
said to "Prove all things; hold fast to that which is true." You
cannot prove or know if you don't investigate. Independent
investigation of Truth is a primary principle of the Baha'i Faith, not
just a right, but a responsibility of every individual.
Nobility and Dignity of All
I also understand some cults demean their members in various ways. The
Baha'i Faith vehemently asserts the nobility of every one of God's
creatures and protects the dignity of all individuals. Baha'is are in
the forefront of human rights and civil rights efforts around the
world. We seek everyone's input in a consultative and democratic
decision-making process
Chastity
I also understand some cults use various illicit sexual practices in
their "worship." The Baha'i Faith teaches cleanliness, purity and
chastity. The only legitimate sexual relationship sanctioned in the
Baha'i teachings is monogamous, heterosexual and privately engaged in
by couples who are married to each other.
Free Will Contributions Only
I also understand some cults require members to give disproportionate
amounts of their money and property to the cult. The Baha'i Faith
never approaches individuals about so much as a tithe. Our funds are
discussed openly, any needs being explained in general meetings, and
individuals are free to give as they choose. No one but the elected
treasurer knows who gives how much, an obvious necessity for
bookkeeping reasons. Annual audit reports tell everyone where the
funds are spent. Every individual's giving is between him and God, and
Baha'is are forbidden to judge each other's relationship with God. (We
avoid the use of paid clergy.)
Open and Above Board
I also understand some cults are secretive. The Baha'i Faith has been
an open book since its inception in 1844. Major political and
religious leaders around the world began receiving letters about the
Baha'i teachings in the 1870s. Baha'is have tried hard for more than
150 years to tell the world about it, while trying not to be perceived
as proselytizing.
The Baha'is were the only religious organization invited to speak at
the Earth Summit in Brazil a few years ago. A recent Encyclopedia
Britannica Yearbook lists the Baha'i Faith as the second-most
widespread religion in the world. The Baha'i International Committee,
holding non-governmental advisory status, has offices at the United
Nations.
It would be difficult to be "secretive" while at the same time
claiming to be the agent for unsealing the books that the prophet
Daniel was ordered to seal up until the time of the end.
The Changeless Faith of God
Baha'i Scripture includes the following statement:
This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in
the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath
refused to seek it -- verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need
of His creatures.
Once anyone tells us they want to hear no more, we turn away,
continuing our search elsewhere for those souls who are seeking Divine
Truth.
Forgive me if I have overstated my case, but it is for love of Jesus,
and love of truth and justice, that I felt it necessary to provide a
few more facts than you had immediately available. As you know, your
congregation looks to you for spiritual guidance, expecting you to
give them truthful, prayerfully considered responses to their
questions. I hope this information provides the basis for a serious
investigation.
At a minimum, I hope that whatever answer you give your congregation
is based on knowledge and love, not on fear of the unknown.
You are welcome to join us in worship, to attend a meeting and ask
questions, to investigate privately, or to turn away. It really is
between you and Jesus what you do with His message.
Forever in His service,
Curtis Wynne
for the Baha'is of Hobbs
ADDENDUM
(The following is such an important point that, even though I
neglected to include it in the original letter, I agreed with a Baha'i
friend's suggestion that it should appear here.)
Family Unit Exalted and Protected
I also understand that some cults create painful divisions in
families, turning children against their parents. The Baha'i Faith, on
the contrary, builds bridges between children and their parents, even
if it results in the believer refraining from participating in Baha'i
community activities. Baha'u'llah commanded:
"Beware lest ye commit that which would sadden the hearts of your
fathers and mothers. Follow ye the path of Truth which indeed is a
straight path. Should anyone give you a choice between the opportunity
to render a service to me and a service to them, choose ye to serve
them, and let such service be a path leading you to Me. This is My
exhortation and command unto thee. Observe therefore that which thy
Lord, the Mighty, the Gracious, hath prescribed unto thee." (Emphasis
added)
I would welcome feedback and discussion.
HOME
If you're not already a Baha'i,
and would like to enroll in the Faith,
then please pick a rose.
http://www.geocities.com/~quddus/nocult.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Marshall
>All dissident ex Baha'is are doomed to
>the fire, surely you dont want to join them do you?
And you say you're not part of a cult...
Rod
> My Dear friend Paul
>
> Many Baha'is have been watching how you have bravely supported them in
> their fight recently against the ex-baha'i dissident enemies of the
> Faith here on TRB .
This is true Paul. We have been watching you closely...we think you
have great potential. Master Yoda thinks you might even be 'the one'.
> Dear paul, Millions of people are opening their
> hearts and souls to you.
True also, for we see into the hearts and souls of all, and can speak
on their behalf. We know when you are sleepy, we know when your awake,
we know when you've been good or bad...so be good for goodness sake.
> Open up the website below and hear that long
> forgotten Christian hymn "when the roll is called up yonder I will be
> there"
You know the one- "I'lllllll be there! (When your shoulders start to slouch)
I'llllllll be there! (When the cat craps on the couch) I'llllll be ......."
> Paul you must accept Jesus into your heart first before you can accept
> Baha'u'llah.
It helps if you can develop a passing tollerance for the other manifestations
but you must have Jesus. Jesus is compulsory. If you don't have Jesus you
can't get in. No, a Moses and Zoroaster wont do you big sleepy Jesuite.
> You have now been in correspondence with good Baha'is and
> bad dissident ex-Baha'is for over two years here on TRB. Now is the
> time for you to decide to come over the river and sign up a member of
> the Baha'i Faith.
Being able to see into all hearts it is our easily determined appointed
function to decide who is ready and who is not, when it is time and when it
is not. You are ready Paul Grasshopper Skywalker, strong within you is the
Force. Your sacred sandals and safron robe await, Associate Assistant Temple
Mistress S&M awaits to annoint you, when you can take the mickey from my hand
it will be time for you to leave.
Master Rod, black belt bonsi.
Susan Maneck
>And you say you're not part of a cult...
Surely your not taking George's post seriously?
Steve Marshall
Thanks for that, Susan - I just checked the message headers and you're
right.
ka kite
Steve
Pat Kohli
Steve Marshall wrote:
Pssst, it's Eorgeay, Emingflay.
Pat Kohli
reli...@yahoo.com wrote:
(snip)
Given that you resigned a few months back, might it not be appropriate for
you to refrain from offering "Baha'i Invitations"? Do feel free to offer
"Fleming Invitations", of course.
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net
reli...@yahoo.com
at sma...@aol.com wrote on 20/2/03 10:37 pm:
>> And you say you're not part of a cult...
>
in article 3E557D0C...@ameritel.net, Pat Kohli at
kohliCUT...@ameritel.net wrote on 21/2/03 1:12 am:
> Pssst, it's Eorgeay, Emingflay.
Dear Susan, Pat and Steve
So I take it none of you three Baha'is want Paul Hammond to to become
a Baha'i and follow in the footsteps of yourselves and Curtis Wayne
by signing his name on the "Roll that will be called up yonder"? What
have you three against Paul Hammond becoming a Baha'is? Don't tell me
you are prejudiced against poor Paul after all the support he gave
Baha'is on TRB against ex'Bahai dissidents. Is it not time Paul joined
the Baha'is and left all these bad ex-Baha'i apostates to end their
days in the eternal fire?
Reliplur
Hi, Curtis Wynne here, performing my civic duty the only way I know
how ... writing and passing on what I believe, offering it as the
greatest gift I can hope to give anyone.
This site is about my great discovery in 1980 when, at the age of 32,
I stumbled onto a mystery that had been around for almost a century
and a half. To me it was a greater mystery that I had never heard of
the Baha'i Faith before. Since then, I've learned much, but I still
don't understand why it seems so many people apparently haven't heard
of Baha'u'llah.
http://www.geocities.com/~quddus/nocult.html
http://www.geocities.com/cwynne19/intro.html
http://www.geocities.com/~quddus/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/cwynne19/invite.html
Paul Hammond
> My Dear friend Paul
>
George,
I already told you my position on this the last time you
tried it.
Paul
Paul Hammond
> reli...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<a38fb763.03022...@posting.google.com>...
> > My Dear friend Paul
> >
> > Many Baha'is have been watching how you have bravely supported them in
> > their fight recently against the ex-baha'i dissident enemies of the
> > Faith here on TRB .
>
> This is true Paul. We have been watching you closely...we think you
> have great potential. Master Yoda thinks you might even be 'the one'.
>
Thanks for the laffs, Rod - you're the greatest!
Paul
Jeremiah
> Dear Susan, Pat and Steve
>
> So I take it none of you three Baha'is want Paul Hammond to to become
> a Baha'i and follow in the footsteps of yourselves and Curtis Wayne
> by signing his name on the "Roll that will be called up yonder"? What
> have you three against Paul Hammond becoming a Baha'is? Don't tell me
> you are prejudiced against poor Paul after all the support he gave
> Baha'is on TRB against ex'Bahai dissidents.
You forget that Paul Hammond has been a great supporter of Karen of
the CJS Cult article and who heads up the dissidents and unenrolled
on Beliefnet and supports the liberals on talisman...so it looks like
Paul should get some goodie points even if he does bomb the trber's!
Is it not time Paul joined
> the Baha'is and left all these bad ex-Baha'i apostates to end their
> days in the eternal fire?
>
Reliplur
Well Paul has a point...the BF has served to provide a center for
postIslamic folk throughout the world - and if it falters there isn't
anything to replace it's claims or club-like provisions - and going
back to Islamic identity can be a messy ordeal. It is kind of Paul to
be sensitive to the needs of club members and therefore protective -
he's doing such a good job he should get an honorary membership with a
gold rose.
Jeremiah
PS - what does your name mean 'reliplur'?
Seegar
wrote:
>Jeremiah
>
>PS - what does your name mean 'reliplur'?
George
Susan Maneck
>So I take it none of you three Baha'is want Paul Hammond to to become
>a Baha'i
George,
I would love for Paul to become a Baha'i.
>Don't tell me
>you are prejudiced against poor Paul after all the support he gave
>Baha'is on TRB against ex'Bahai dissidents.
You forget I used to be a supporter of the ex-Baha'i dissidents.
>Is it not time Paul joined
>the Baha'is and left all these bad ex-Baha'i apostates to end their
>days in the eternal fire?
While he is already doing such a good job roasting one like you?
Paul Hammond
> at sma...@aol.com wrote on 20/2/03 10:37 pm:
> >> And you say you're not part of a cult...
> >
> > Surely your not taking George's post seriously?
>
> in article 3E557D0C...@ameritel.net, Pat Kohli at
> kohliCUT...@ameritel.net wrote on 21/2/03 1:12 am:
> > Pssst, it's Eorgeay, Emingflay.
>
> Dear Susan, Pat and Steve
>
> So I take it none of you three Baha'is want Paul Hammond to to become
> a Baha'i and follow in the footsteps of yourselves and Curtis Wayne
> by signing his name on the "Roll that will be called up yonder"?
Errol,
You know what Pat thinks of you offering invitations on his
behalf, because he told you last time you did this. You even
reposted these screeds of Curtis Wayne last time, too.
Try googling.
In the mean time, I'll be making the decisions about when
and which faith to join for myself, thank you very much.
Paul
george.fleming2
Jere...@volcanomail.com wrote on 22/2/03 12:37 am:
> Jeremiah
>
> PS - what does your name mean 'reliplur'?
It is short for Religious Pluralism which happens to be how I define my
concepts of belief.
Kind Regards
Reliplur
Paul Hammond
Since you're in the mood for explanations,
what does your name "Errol" mean?
Paul
george.fleming2
sma...@aol.com wrote on 22/2/03 1:53 am:
So you enjoy getting non-Baha'is to roast ex-baha'is for you, instead of
supporting them. And you enjoy reporting Baha'is to the institutions who
dont come up to your expectations. No wonder you have many enemies even
amongst Baha'is. Were any of your relations concentration camp guards in
WW@ Nazi germany by any chance?..................GF
>
george.fleming2
paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 22/2/03 6:22 pm:
I will tell you only when you tell TRB your true name, and what your true
beliefs are. Because you are Mr Scarlet Pimpernel who want to nosey into
everybody's business on both Beliefnet and TRB but refuse to let anyone know
anything about yourself...............GF
Paul Hammond
My true name? It is "Paul Hammond". You want to see my birth
certificate or something.
And don't compare me with that bollix, Scarlet Pimpernel,
he has fuck all to do with me.
Paul
Steve Marshall
>beliefs are. Because you are Mr Scarlet Pimpernel who want to nosey into
>everybody's business on both Beliefnet and TRB but refuse to let anyone know
>anything about yourself...............GF
Yeah, George is dying for you to play that fantasy game with him where
you're a little Mummy's boy faggot. It's not George's fault that he
thinks this way. It's what happens when you serve your country and end
up stuck for weeks at a time in a cramped all-male environment.
I expect Errol is Errol Flynn - who died at age 50 after a series of
sex (underage girls) and drug (alcohol, mainly) scandals
ka kite
Steve
(not my real name)
Dermod Ryder
Foot in mouth time again - the question was addressed to Repliplur or
... (great gasps of dawning revelation) ARE YOU REPLIPLUR?
>
Dermod Ryder
> So you enjoy getting non-Baha'is to roast ex-baha'is for you,
Todays's "Chef's Special!"
> instead of
> supporting them. And you enjoy reporting Baha'is to the institutions
who
> dont come up to your expectations.
Is it the Bahais who don't come up to her expectations, or is it the
institutions or possibly both?
> No wonder you have many enemies even
> amongst Baha'is. Were any of your relations concentration camp
guards in
> WW@ Nazi germany by any chance?..................GF
I'd heard they were paratroopers.
Susan Maneck
Gee, George, I didn't know you had such a large vocabulary.
Jeremiah
> >
> > Since you're in the mood for explanations,
> >
> > what does your name "Errol" mean?
> >
> > Pau
>
> I will tell you only when you tell TRB your true name, and what your true
> beliefs are. Because you are Mr Scarlet Pimpernel who want to nosey into
> everybody's business on both Beliefnet and TRB but refuse to let anyone know
> anything about yourself...............GF
George - this is amazing - can you tell us how you found out Paul is
the Scarlet Pimpernel from Religious Debate...it sure makes the Karen
connection more clear - Wow what a ruse!!!!
Jeremiah
Dermod Ryder
"Susan Maneck " <sma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030222215221...@mb-mu.aol.com...
> >> It is short for Religious Pluralism
>
> Gee, George, I didn't know you had such a large vocabulary.
Geez and we all thought that you knew everything!
Pat Kohli
Dermod Ryder wrote:
> (snip)
> > > "george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > > news:<BA7CEE40.12B26%george....@ntlworld.com>...
> > >> in article 3bf0bb0d.03022...@posting.google.com,
> Jeremiah at
> > >> Jere...@volcanomail.com wrote on 22/2/03 12:37 am:
> > >>
> > >>> Jeremiah
> > >>>
> > >>> PS - what does your name mean 'reliplur'?
> > >>
> > >> It is short for Religious Pluralism which happens to be how I
> define my
> > >> concepts of belief.
> > >>
> > >> Kind Regards
> > >>
> > >> Reliplur
> > >
> (snip)
>
> Foot in mouth time again - the question was addressed to Repliplur or
> ... (great gasps of dawning revelation) ARE YOU REPLIPLUR?
>
> >
Apparently he signed himself as Reliplur while using George Fleming's
email address, and responding to Starr* who was then posting under her
Jeremiah handle. Was that a surprise, or not?
george.fleming2
Ah, Ah, so you wont tell us the above information because you were Scarlet
Pimpernel after all. The truth is at last coming out you devious little
faggot. What else have you been doing behind mummy's back Poofy Pauline?
GF
george.fleming2
asm...@es.co.nz wrote on 23/2/03 1:15 am:
Funny how all the BIGS come into defend Paul (or is it the scarlet
pimpernel) Your not far behind him henpecked Stevie are you? How often
does Alison give you a good hiding with her hanbag. In fact there are very
few men in the Baha'I Faith most of them are poofers, crossdressers and
faggots. Were do you fit in Steve?...................GF
george.fleming2
kohliCUT...@ameritel.net wrote on 23/2/03 5:19 am:
Give that boy a lollipop for exellent awarness............GF
>
Dermod Ryder
>
> Funny how all the BIGS come into defend Paul (or is it the scarlet
> pimpernel) Your not far behind him henpecked Stevie are you? How
often
> does Alison give you a good hiding with her hanbag.
Not often enough, from the sound of things and if you ask me!
In fact there are very
> few men in the Baha'I Faith most of them are poofers, crossdressers
and
> faggots. Were do you fit in Steve?...................GF
Probably between "few and the "."
But then, you already knew that ... I think .... I expect ... I hope
... I despair!
BTW Splasher what is your hang-up about "poofters, crossdressers and
faggots?" Between that and your use of Errol who was widely rumoured
to be exceptionally endowed to the point of discomfort, am I the first
or only one around here to be perceiving "neurosis tranfer?"
Dermod Ryder
Oh goody! Can I have a strawberry flavoured one, puhleeze?
george.fleming2
Grim_Re...@btinternet.com wrote on 23/2/03 10:42 am:
Its your poofy buddy the scarlet pimpernel and yourself who has the
"neurosis tranfer" syndrome Demetrie. Or do you forget the makebelieve names
you gave to yourself on TRB and other lists and newsgroups? Once you were a
reincarnation of Shoghi Effendi if I remember rightly................GF
>
>
>
Dermod Ryder
> > BTW Splasher what is your hang-up about "poofters, crossdressers
and
> > faggots?" Between that and your use of Errol who was widely
rumoured
> > to be exceptionally endowed to the point of discomfort, am I the
first
> > or only one around here to be perceiving "neurosis tranfer?"
>
> Its your poofy buddy the scarlet pimpernel and yourself who has the
> "neurosis tranfer" syndrome Demetrie. Or do you forget the
makebelieve names
> you gave to yourself on TRB and other lists and newsgroups? Once you
were a
> reincarnation of Shoghi Effendi if I remember
rightly................GF
Wow! Who told you that? Do you really think I could impersonate
Shoghi Rabbani and get away with it? Well I might have if somebody
hadn't spilled the beans. But many of my other assumed identities
have escaped detection by BIGS and non-BIGS alike. "Smaneck" has been
the best - even to the extent of kill-filing myself and that, let me
assure you, is a most painful procedure.
Now to your main point: -
"You seek him here, you seek him there.
Splasher! You seek him everywhere!
Could it be Percy - it's hard to tell,
Who is that damned 'lusive Pimpernel!"
Sink me! The chap imagines he's Monsieur Chauvelin! I do hope he
remembers what happened to Chauvelin after he tried to link Sir
Perceval Blakeney, Baronet, with that rapscallion Pimpernel chappie!
Paul Hammond
Steve, as you apparently well know, is Alison Marshall's husband,
and, along with Rod Kashani here, one of the better critics
among the enrolled. I've defended him in a tight corner or
two too.
As you have noted, I appreciate Pat's friendship, even though
we are on opposite sides of most Baha'i-related arguments
around here.
OTOH, Nima used to be a friend, and doesn't disguise his
contempt for Pat, Dermod is still a friend with me, AFAIK,
still a friend of Nima.
No-one tries to tell me that the sides of argument I find
myself on, or which cards I've signed ought to determine
my friendships.
It's probably the same for most people.
Human interactions can be complex - and we are not
about to dumb them down so that *you* can get a
grip on us, just because it's not black-and-white
enough for you around here.
Paul
Paul Hammond
Thanks Star - wow, I only just found out that you were
Jeremiah. I remember those days - unfortunately, so do
Neil and Cristian. I don't know if you know the ultimate
result of all this, but I was on Pwll and Cristian's
"Fair" ReligiousDebate list for a while, before I joined
Lilith Hu's breakaway group.
Sadly, those tossers have just opened their mouths in
the new place - they are still going on about your
deceptiveness as Jo/Beth - but I have them killfiled,
so I don't get to see much of their rubbish.
Paul
george.fleming2
So the scarlet pimpernel is a defensive lawyer who defends two BIGS.
Were has Steve gone to now, after having a go at me, has he run to hide in
Alison's handbag, or behind crocodile dundee?
>
> As you have noted, I appreciate Pat's friendship, even though
> we are on opposite sides of most Baha'i-related arguments
> around here.
It was you who noted your friendship for another BIGS not me.
>
> OTOH, Nima used to be a friend, and doesn't disguise his
> contempt for Pat, Dermod is still a friend with me, AFAIK,
> still a friend of Nima.
What about Susan Maneck, you are also her friend, she has mentioned she is
happy you give me a great roasting. When is this roasting going to come.
>
> No-one tries to tell me that the sides of argument I find
> myself on, or which cards I've signed ought to determine
> my friendships.
>
> It's probably the same for most people.
>
> Human interactions can be complex - and we are not
> about to dumb them down so that *you* can get a
> grip on us, just because it's not black-and-white
> enough for you around here.
>
> Paul
No its not black and white and Paul Hammond is not your real name is it?
Interesting you arrived on the "religious debate" scene the same time as
scarlet pimpernel so dont be putting on all this little side show to bluff
your way out of it.
GF
george.fleming2
paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 24/2/03 2:49 am:
OH! isn't that nice, the Scarlet Pimpernel is trying to throw up another
little smoke screen....................................GF
Starr*
> > George - this is amazing - can you tell us how you found out Paul is
> > the Scarlet Pimpernel from Religious Debate...it sure makes the Karen
> > connection more clear - Wow what a ruse!!!!
> >
> > Jeremiah
>
>
> Thanks Star - wow, I only just found out that you were
> Jeremiah. I remember those days - unfortunately, so do
> Neil and Cristian. I don't know if you know the ultimate
> result of all this, but I was on Pwll and Cristian's
> "Fair" ReligiousDebate list for a while, before I joined
> Lilith Hu's breakaway group.
>
> Sadly, those tossers have just opened their mouths in
> the new place - they are still going on about your
> deceptiveness as Jo/Beth - but I have them killfiled,
> so I don't get to see much of their rubbish.
Paul/Scarlet - What a silly billy ---- everyone knows I don't change
my ISP when I use different names.....so everyone knows it is
me....even the dst knows Claudia is Starr* etc.. Have a good trip in
Minnesota...Karen will miss you - Who's watching out for her while
you're gone? I guess you two met on Religious Debate and what happened
to the real Paul Hammond who was a Baha'i?
Starr*
>
> Paul
george.fleming2
star...@yahoo.com wrote on 24/2/03 10:29 am:
It's good to see you have realised who our master disguise artist is Starr
as well. Notice here how he can jump back and use the infamous "F " word in
his language to try and throw us and other's off his scent. Woit and see
how S/M and P/K come in to defend their so called Baha'i friend Paul/Scarlet
I wonder is he an ABM or even higher, anyway long runs the fox.......GF
in article c977f97b.03022...@posting.google.com, Paul Hammond at
paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 23/2/03 12:49 am:
>>> Yea well here's proof of Demetrie's "F" word to your new overexcited
>>> girlfriend Ass/Pro Manic.........................GF
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=dermod+ryder&start=310&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&
>> scoring=d&selm=algo7s%241plqpr%241%40ID-84503.news.dfncis.de&rnum=320
>>
>> Dermod Ryder wrote to Susan maneck:
>>
>> I put Evensong in my kill-file because he is a bollix and I therefore
>> don't even acknowledge the little gobshite exists. You need to do the
>> same if you want to have any credibility. Granted, with your record
>> of double dealing, spying, touting and trying to **fuck** the minds of
>> anybody you think you can suck back into submission to the corruption
>> that is the AO, that will be difficult but it's your problem.
>>
>> Your cute hoorism might impress the multi challenged in the AO and a
>> few external fans but a cynical bogtrotting bastard like me can
>> clearly see the slapper at work. Now go cry on George the Guardian's
>> shoulder and see if he can dig up any dirt on me which you'll
>> endeavour to put to your own nefarious use.
>
> So, you think that if you are fucking with our minds, then
> we are telling you to fuck off? get a grip, George!
> Paul
Paul Hammond
George,
Do you actually know this poster, Cristian Prometheus, who
posts from an address in Romania, and had an argument with
me on Religious Debate sometime in 2001, and on his own list,
Fair Religious Debate, somewhere around the end of 2002, begining
of 2003? And do you *really* think he is me?
Or did you just use the words "Scarlet Pimpernel" referring to
the character in Dicken's Tale of Two Cities, and did not
know about this real person who used this alias?
I'd really rather you didn't say I was him, because he is
an arsehole who said all kinds of nasty things about Karen,
and whom I went on FRD expressly to defend Karen from the
stupid things he was saying about her.
This quarrell had, and has, nothing to do with you.
Stop it, okay!
Wishing you a clue,
Paul
Paul Hammond
You are the one it bothers, and who has commented to both
of us about how it just shouldn't be.
Well, fuck you George, I am friends with who I want to be,
not who you think I should be, and you are just jealous
because *no-one* wants to be friends with you.
> >
> > OTOH, Nima used to be a friend, and doesn't disguise his
> > contempt for Pat, Dermod is still a friend with me, AFAIK,
> > still a friend of Nima.
>
> What about Susan Maneck, you are also her friend, she has mentioned she is
> happy you give me a great roasting. When is this roasting going to come.
>
Bullshit. Susan is not my friend. We just have you for a common
enemy.
>
> > No-one tries to tell me that the sides of argument I find
> > myself on, or which cards I've signed ought to determine
> > my friendships.
> >
> > It's probably the same for most people.
> >
> > Human interactions can be complex - and we are not
> > about to dumb them down so that *you* can get a
> > grip on us, just because it's not black-and-white
> > enough for you around here.
> >
> > Paul
>
> No its not black and white and Paul Hammond is not your real name is it?
Erm. Yes. This is too stupid.
> Interesting you arrived on the "religious debate" scene the same time as
> scarlet pimpernel so dont be putting on all this little side show to bluff
> your way out of it.
>
When did scarlet pimpernel post to Beliefnet?
Paul
george.fleming2
sma...@aol.com wrote on 23/2/03 2:52 am:
>>> It is short for Religious Pluralism
>
> Gee, George, I didn't know you had such a large vocabulary.
Its totally opposite to your singleminded concept belonging to a
singleminded religion whose only view is to eradicate Religious Pluralism,
conquer the world and form one single religion namely the Baha'i Faith.
Funny Islam thought they could do that for 1300 years and failed, so what
hope is there for the Baha'i Faith?..............GF
Pat Kohli
I just saw this message on TRB, and I thought I'd drop you a private
email.
I noticed your clever use of double reverse psychology on George, re:
the "scarlet pimpernel". Clearly, by repeatedly
warning him not to address you as "scarlet" or the "scarlet pimpernel",
he would be unable to resist addressing you as such
for several weeks, which, in dog-years, could be a very long time for
George Fleming.
Paul Hammond wrote:
> (snip)
> > No its not black and white and Paul Hammond is not your real name is it?
>
> Erm. Yes. This is too stupid.
>
Exactly! That's what I am sayin' right now. I can not emphasize that
enough. This is too stupid.
Maybe he has figured out you are the real Al Marbig? I had noticed that
he is beginning to use Google, and he may yet
discover you admitting your real name.
Are there any cover stories that you might think of, so that, when you
are discovered, he can be put off?
Best wishes!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net
Pat Kohli
Please disregard the previous message.
NEMO418
> Yeah, George is dying for you to play that fantasy game with him where
> you're a little Mummy's boy faggot.
You're all into little mummy's boy faggots, eh Steve? Or do you fancy
Drag Queen types?? You never did quite tell what manner/type of a
poofter/queer you yourself are. We should be told!
Nima
NEMO418
Steve Marshall
Paul Hammond
saosh...@yahoo.com.au wrote on 25/2/03 8:12 am:
Hi Nima, Steve and George,
I was just passing by and seen the "invitation to Paul Hammond" and
thought I would say hello. It seemed so exciting I couldn't resist
but to answer.
Does this Baha'is group go in for Drag Queen types and cross-dressing.
as so many other religious groups are against it.?
Paul
Cal E. Rollins
poofter and faggot, but since it's on a public forum, at least tell us
what's going on and why you two, George, Paul, and Pat are calling each
other that kind of stuff. Even those two Arabs jumped into the act.
All of you sound like the middle school kids I do Poets-in-the Schools
with. The boys call the girls and their friends fags, the girls call
each other fags and also their boy friends. Probably their teachers,
too, if they could get away with it with impunity.
Now I've searched through what I could find of the archives and can't
locate any history behind Nima calling Steve what he did and Steve
doesn't even deny it but sends him back a smiley face. And I was rather
shocked some time back when Steve admitted to Star's nosiness that he
masturbated, but that's hardly faggotry since everybody does it. Thank
God the Universal House of Justice regulated against it, though, so we
can finally have truly celibate unmarried Baha'is.
I don't know... Has the Baha'i World changed that much, or is it just
Internet where all this stuff goes on? --Cal
NEMO418
paulham...@yahoo.co.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message news:<ed5fd54f.03022...@posting.google.com>...
Pat Kohli
Paul Hammond wrote:
> (snip)
> Hi Nima, Steve and George,
>
> I was just passing by and seen the "invitation to Paul Hammond" and
> thought I would say hello. It seemed so exciting I couldn't resist
> but to answer.
>
> Does this Baha'is group go in for Drag Queen types and cross-dressing.
> as so many other religious groups are against it.?
It is just so hard to show off in flat text, though.
Seriously, as w/ Darrick, I suppose all this gay-baiting is really a mask
for (a) certain individual(s) insecurity about their own orientation. We
all get a few trials, and I am glad that this does not seem to be as a big
a trial for me as it is for others. Being gay looks so much better than
this extreme homophobia.
Best wishes and keep your ear muffs under your hat and scarf,
NEMO418
Kohli was sired on. Steve Marshall - whom I happen to know from his
own pseudo-wife's admission to be a batter for the other side (i.e. a
homo-, gay, a faggot, a pansy, a pretty boy) - came here and joined
the cacaphony chorus of the baha'i lynch mob assembled against GF
launching into the fag baiting. I find it profoundly interesting how
an individual who was a gay activist before becoming a baha'i can come
here and launch into the fag labels with a straight face. Sounds like
a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black, or maybe this is
yet another instance of someone trying to put up a smokescreen that
perhaps a certain person whose name begins this thread is the love
interest of the accuser?? Who knows???? We should be told anyway!
Steve and Paul, hmmmmmmmmmm.........
Nima
Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message news:<3E5C17CF...@ameritel.net>...
Paul Hammond
kohliCUT...@ameritel.net wrote on 26/2/03 1:26 am:
> Paul Hammond wrote:
>
>> (snip)
>> Hi Nima, Steve and George,
>>
>> I was just passing by and seen the "invitation to Paul Hammond"
and
>> thought I would say hello. It seemed so exciting I couldn't
resist
>> but to answer.
>>
>> Does this Baha'is group go in for Drag Queen types and
cross-dressing.
>> as so many other religious groups are against it.?
>
> It is just so hard to show off in flat text, though.
Hi Pat,
Yes I agree, flat text is not very exciting, but you must use your
imigination.
I once got dressed up as a nun for a fancy dress ball, and got away
with it with light makeup. Infact I had a few passes made at me by
Lord Nelson and kiss me Hardy, would you expect.any different being
away at sea for so long, they fancy anything that moves those amorous
Navymen.
>
> Seriously, as w/ Darrick, I suppose all this gay-baiting is really a mask
> for (a) certain individual(s) insecurity about their own orientation. We
> all get a few trials, and I am glad that this does not seem to be as a big
> a trial for me as it is for others. Being gay looks so much better than
> this extreme homophobia.
I agree Pat all this gay baiting is not nice, still some of those with
extreme homophobia are secret cross dressers themselves. They just
keep it in the house behind the curtains . Sometimes their wives know
and indeed even enjoy it themselves sitting down to have tea with her
husband wearing one of her best dresses on. In fact I have a friend
whose wife choses what he has to wear. Wonders will never cease.
>
> Best wishes and keep your ear muffs under your hat and scarf,
I think earmuffs look so sexless, and so do gasmasks, mind you I do
like hats , I think men especially military men look ever so nice in
their different
headdresses . I had my photograph taken with an Irish guardsman
outside Buckingham palace once. They look so tall and masculine
standing in those big bearskins. But I cant imagine them wearing such
a uniform these days if they go to war. All this talk of war is not
nice either.
Well I must go, have to go to the loo to freshen up, do some shopping
and then catch my plane. All this travelling is ever so hot, sticky
and tiring.
Paul
Paul Hammond
Hi George.
You know they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
I had no idea you liked me so much. Wassup, your boyfriends
from the Navy throw you over, and you just had to pretend
you had a chance with me instead?
OTOH, maybe this is Pwll. Steve did tell me the headers
are for an ISP based in Wales. I wouldn't think George
was clever enough to do that.
Paul
Karen Bacquet
>
> Hi George.
>
> You know they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>
> I had no idea you liked me so much. Wassup, your boyfriends
> from the Navy throw you over, and you just had to pretend
> you had a chance with me instead?
>
> OTOH, maybe this is Pwll. Steve did tell me the headers
> are for an ISP based in Wales. I wouldn't think George
> was clever enough to do that.
Pwll wouldn't be, either. Remember how these guys had no clue what an ISP
number was, and at first refused to believe that Lilith and I were separate
people, even *after* we compared numbers?
Love, Karen
http://www.bacquet.tk
>
> Paul
Pat Kohli
Paul Hammond
True, true.
But, my thought was that, since Pwll lives in Wales
anyway, he wouldn't be able to disguise that fact whichever
fake yahoo account he was posting from.
I assume that George's headers show that he is posting from
Northern Ireland, unless of course all N Irish traffic gets
routed through a server in Wales for some reason.
Paul
Karen Bacquet
> > >
> > > OTOH, maybe this is Pwll. Steve did tell me the headers
> > > are for an ISP based in Wales. I wouldn't think George
> > > was clever enough to do that.
> >
> > Pwll wouldn't be, either. Remember how these guys had no clue what an
ISP
> > number was, and at first refused to believe that Lilith and I were
separate
> > people, even *after* we compared numbers?
> >
> >
>
> True, true.
>
> But, my thought was that, since Pwll lives in Wales
> anyway, he wouldn't be able to disguise that fact whichever
> fake yahoo account he was posting from.
True. I've been checking in on ARAO, since the archives are public. You
guys are going to have a helluva time with those two unless and until Lilith
shows up -- nobody is going to get rid of C&P, because nobody has access to
the controls. And any attempt to get Yahoo! to act is going to take
forever. I would suggest that somebody who the group has confidence in
simply start a new one. It's quicker, easier, and would solve the problem.
It takes about five minutes to set up a group; fill out a web form and you
are FRD-free.
At least Pwll and Cristian haven't discovered Usenet, yet! As far as I can
tell, they've never posted on Beliefnet, although they talked about finding
me there -- but Beliefnet hosts would stop them in their tracks pretty
quickly. From what I'm seeing it looks like they get themselves booted off
lists pretty regularly. They're a real piece of work; they insist on
bringing up this old RD and FRD business among people who weren't even
there, and don't care -- basically because you are there. It's the baiting
game: if you don't want to talk about it, it's because you want to hide
your nefarious hypocrisy from the world; if you do talk about it, then it's
"Here we go round the mulberry bush" again.
>
> I assume that George's headers show that he is posting from
> Northern Ireland, unless of course all N Irish traffic gets
> routed through a server in Wales for some reason.
That's possible, I guess. I just don't think Pwll is sophisticated enough
about the Internet to disguise his account, and I've never known him to post
under a handle; that's Cristian's game.
Love, Karen
http://www.bacquet.tk
Pat Kohli
Paul Hammond wrote:
> paulham...@yahoo.co.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message news:<ed5fd54f.03022...@posting.google.com>...
> (snip)
> >
> >
> > Hi Nima, Steve and George,
> >
> > I was just passing by and seen the "invitation to Paul Hammond" and
> > thought I would say hello. It seemed so exciting I couldn't resist
> > but to answer.
> >
> > Does this Baha'is group go in for Drag Queen types and cross-dressing.
> > as so many other religious groups are against it.?
> >
> > Paul
>
> Hi George.
>
> You know they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>
> I had no idea you liked me so much. Wassup, your boyfriends
> from the Navy throw you over, and you just had to pretend
> you had a chance with me instead?
>
> OTOH, maybe this is Pwll. Steve did tell me the headers
> are for an ISP based in Wales. I wouldn't think George
> was clever enough to do that.
My best guess is, 'the other Paul Hammond'. There were two Kent Johnsons on *.religion.bahai. The email address first
appears in Google archives just recently, which is consistent with a spoof, HOWEVER, were another Paul Hammond to show up
on usenet, particularly via google, googling his own name, finding it is the title of the thread, and peeking about,
should not be completely incredible behavior. So, I'm thinking it is best to show restraint until malicious intent
becomes apparent. If this is HWNWNBM, or Pwll, on a Welsh Holiday, that won't be long.
Pat Kohli
George Fleming wrote:
> (snip)
> Well I must go, have to go to the loo to freshen up, do some shopping
> and then catch my plane. All this travelling is ever so hot, sticky
> and tiring.
Okay, all that crap I wrote about how this might be an innocent mistake, I take
that back, since the real Paul Hammond said he was going on a trip.
I peeked in your headers, George. On this message your headers show you at
62.254.52.133. A recent from Reliplur, another George Fleming sock puppet,
shows the same IP address: 62.254.52.133. This is the same IP address as used
in a recent post from George Fleming, 62.254.52.133.
-------- Original Message --------
Path:
uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: paulham...@yahoo.co.uk (Paul Hammond)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
Subject: Baha'i Invitation to Paul Hammond
Date: 26 Feb 2003 00:29:58 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <ed5fd54f.03022...@posting.google.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.254.52.133
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1046248198 6593 127.0.0.1 (26 Feb 2003 08:29:58 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:29:58 GMT
Xref: uni-berlin.de talk.religion.bahai:61849
in article 3E5C17CF...@ameritel.net, Pat Kohli at
kohliCUT...@ameritel.net wrote on 26/2/03 1:26 am:
------------------ (snip)----------------------------
Reliplur message:
-------- Original Message --------
Path:
uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: reli...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
Subject: Baha'i Invitation to Paul Hammond
Date: 21 Feb 2003 01:47:05 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <a38fb763.03022...@posting.google.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.254.52.133
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1045820825 31052 127.0.0.1 (21 Feb 2003 09:47:05
GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Feb 2003 09:47:05 GMT
Xref: uni-berlin.de talk.religion.bahai:61528
in article 20030220173735...@mb-ch.aol.com, Susan Maneck
at sma...@aol.com wrote on 20/2/03 10:37 pm:
>> And you say you're not part of a cult...
>
> Surely your not taking George's post seriously?
in article 3E557D0C...@ameritel.net, Pat Kohli at
kohliCUT...@ameritel.net wrote on 21/2/03 1:12 am:
> Pssst, it's Eorgeay, Emingflay.
----------- (snip) ---------------------------------------
----------- Original Message -------------------------
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2106
Subject: Re: ABDUL BAHA ASKS MIRZA MANSUR TO KILL MIRZA YAHYA
From: "george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
Message-ID: <BA8357C9.147BE%george....@ntlworld.com>
References: <BA827C04.14410%george....@ntlworld.com>
<9185f7bd.03022...@posting.google.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Lines: 95
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:51:05 +0000
NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.254.52.133
X-Complaints-To: ab...@ntlworld.com
X-Trace: newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net 1046325227 62.254.52.133 (Thu, 27 Feb 2003
05:53:47 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:53:47 GMT
Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dermod Ryder
>
> George Fleming wrote:
>
> > (snip)
> > Well I must go, have to go to the loo to freshen up, do some
shopping
> > and then catch my plane. All this travelling is ever so hot,
sticky
> > and tiring.
>
> Okay, all that crap I wrote about how this might be an innocent
mistake, I take
> that back, since the real Paul Hammond said he was going on a trip.
>
> I peeked in your headers, George. On this message your headers show
you at
> 62.254.52.133. A recent from Reliplur, another George Fleming sock
puppet,
> shows the same IP address: 62.254.52.133. This is the same IP
address as used
> in a recent post from George Fleming, 62.254.52.133.
George Fleming is the same as "Repliplur" is the same as "paul hammond
@ yahoo" is indistinguishable from a dog turd!
Dermod.
NEMO418
> George Fleming is the same as "Repliplur" is the same as "paul hammond
> @ yahoo" is indistinguishable from a dog turd!
Give it a rest on George Flemming, Grim. The only true dog turd here
is the dst and no one plays second fiddle to her supreme dog-turdness.
Nima
george.fleming2
Thanks Nima, if Grim lays off I will return the gesture.....GF
Dermod Ryder
"NEMO418" <saosh...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:9185f7bd.03022...@posting.google.com...
I don't see any difference betwixt or between them. Both wallow in
the lie and a supreme sense of self assumed righteousness. Tweedledum
and Tweedledee - if you ask me - they're the products of the same
system, people who think they can do and say what they want with
impunity. Fleming is however the greater of the two, at least here on
TRB - while the DST has challenged on matters pertinent to discussion
here, he has dredged the darkest recesses of his imagination and
sought any idle gossip to malign my character and that of my wife. He
has lied and cheated his way in a vain effort to better me and, if my
recollection is correct, you as well.
Whilst I applaud your efforts at making a peace and seeking mercy for
him, I cannot accede to them. Fleming has libelled me; he must
realise he cannot do this without having to face and accept the
consequences. He was offered an honourable way off the hook on which
he impaled himself - he scoffed at it and repeated the libels.
The Curse of the Reaper shall now descend upon him in all of its power
and magnitude.
Dermod.
george.fleming2
Grim_Re...@btinternet.com wrote on 28/2/03 10:36 pm:
Dermod,
Thank you Dermod, for helping to unmask Pat Kohli as the real scaelet
pimpernel AO techinical computer plant on TRB and other Baha'i lists. To
aquire such information one requires special software data. Spamming
companies use them. So why does Pat Kohli have this type of computer
spoftware if he is not using it for deceptive means.
Pat Kohli is working for the AO to check out and scare off Baha'is (from all
lists) but especially TRB who use, If and when they innocently use their own
names first on any of the other Baha'i lists and then come on TRB, ARB or
Beliefnet with another name to ask awkward questions hoping to protect their
name. Kohli checkes out their computer numbers and reports them to the AO,
and they get a warning letter or a phone call from an ABM. My case was
different because I did not hide my name and was therefore straight forward.
I have proof of this from a private e/mail from another Baha'i who was
reported by Kohli. He used a sock puppet hoping his identiy was safe but it
wasn't. In fact this Baha'i was ordered off TRB by the UHJ with the help of
none other than the AO computer techinal adviser Lundy pat Kohli hinself.
There is no fool like an old fool. Thank you Pat Kohli for falling into the
spiders web for catching scarlet pimpernels. Paul Hammond should be
congratulated for helping me to catch you. Thank you Paul.
George Fleming
george.fleming2
Grim_Re...@btinternet.com wrote on 1/3/03 11:05 am:
What are you going to do, send me another solicitor's letter? Please do I
love getting these letters from you especially knowing you have to spend
your whiskey and guinness money on them...............GF
Raoul
"george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:BA865295.15533%george....@ntlworld.com...
Pat didn't use 'special software' to uncover your impersonation of Paul
Hammond. He simply looked at your headers for the IP address.
Raoul
george.fleming2
wrote on 1/3/03 10:19 pm:
> Pat didn't use 'special software' to uncover your impersonation of Paul
> Hammond. He simply looked at your headers for the IP address.
>
> Raoul
Personal IP header addresses are hidden and do not come up on my goggle or
other newsgroups. I would need special software to find it Raoul.
For instance I cannot check to find out if you are not Paul Hammond or
Dermod Ryder or a new subscriber to TRB with a complete different IP
address.
But Pat Kohli can.....................GF
Raoul
> in article b3rbqa$v3m$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk, Raoul at no_...@invalid.com
> wrote on 1/3/03 10:19 pm:
>
> > Pat didn't use 'special software' to uncover your impersonation of Paul
> > Hammond. He simply looked at your headers for the IP address.
> >
> > Raoul
>
> Personal IP header addresses are hidden and do not come up on my goggle or
> other newsgroups. I would need special software to find it Raoul.
If you're reading your news using Google, all you have to do is click on
'View this article only' and 'Original Format' and you get the whole message
including headers.
>
> For instance I cannot check to find out if you are not Paul Hammond or
> Dermod Ryder or a new subscriber to TRB with a complete different IP
> address.
>
> But Pat Kohli can.....................GF
>
AFAIK, the only people who know my real identity are at my ISP, and that
data is protected by law.
Raoul
george.fleming2
wrote on 2/3/03 8:29 am:
Sure but so is my real idenity peotected by law. George fleming is not my
real name. Its only my Artist/Author's name and a name I used 30 years ago
to protect my anonymity when I joined AA. I even joined the Baha'is using
that name. How many subscribers on TRB do you know are using their real
(birth certificate) names? The first Paul Hammond could be an alias and not
his real name either when he came to TRB and Beliefnet. Like you his real
name could be protected by law also. But many people are (innocent or
ignorant) when they first use computers and give their real names, little
realising there are cranks and even criminal elements who can steal their
credit cards and gain other information if they can connect their real name
to the internet when first signing up.
But at the same time you could still be Paul Hammond who has two computers,
or even a computer with a different number of hard drives, which gives a
different number of hard drives. I nor others have no way of proving that.
Dermod Ryder is the biggest sock puppeter on TRB, he once stole the identity
of Shoghi Effendi. DR Susan maneck and a number of other subscribers has
also used other identities so I am not the first one. Usually when they are
found out they stop, using that identity, or just get bored with it....GF
Raoul
>
> But at the same time you could still be Paul Hammond who has two
computers,
> or even a computer with a different number of hard drives, which gives a
> different number of hard drives. I nor others have no way of proving that.
I do have two computers, but I'm not Paul Hammond. If I was him, don't you
think I would have insulted you by now?
>
> Dermod Ryder is the biggest sock puppeter on TRB, he once stole the
identity
> of Shoghi Effendi. DR Susan maneck and a number of other subscribers has
> also used other identities so I am not the first one. Usually when they
are
> found out they stop, using that identity, or just get bored with it....GF
>
I'm not Dermod, either. He is much wittier than I am and altogether more
attractive to women.
Raoul
Steve Marshall
>other newsgroups. I would need special software to find it Raoul.
George is right - specialist software like Agent Newsreader or Outlook
Express is needed if you're wanting to look at those deeply hidden and
encrypted message headers in newsgroup posts. Now, where is your
average Internet user going to get her hands on heavy-duty HaCk3r
software like that?
ka kite
Steve
george.fleming2
asm...@es.co.nz wrote on 2/3/03 10:43 am:
With Agent newsreader or Outlook Espress all one can find is the IP Number.
But you still have to go back to google to find it as Raoul explained.
It does not give you the other three No's IE: sub mask Number, the router
number or the named server Number. One needs all four numbers to find out
the real information to track down the posters real name. date of birth etc
etc. Its here were heavy-duty HaCk3r software can be used to find the
poster's real name. date of birth, postcode and state or area where the
person is living. By using such software Baha'is like Pat Kohli can track
down which community a Baha'i might live and if the Baha'i decides to use a
sock puppet to disquise their name (which they may have used before say on
Baha'i Discuss were Baha'is have to give their registration Number) Pat
Kohli can then check them out and report them to the AO (if they are saying
negative things about the Baha'i Faith. From then on in its the AO's or
NSA's job to warn them off the newsgroup or even sent them a letter. I was
suspicious when Pat Kohli asked Dermod Ryder to try and find out my Baha'i
number from his wife so he could by-pass all this trouble of using such
software. before reporting me to the UK NSA.
In fact Steve this could have been one of the way's Alison your wife was
reported, (if she wrote negative things about the faith on the internet and
the way they found out they are keeping it a secret from her. Pat Kohli may
be only one of a few Baha'is with such computer software working for the AO.
GF
Raoul
> in article 71n36vsvnfaju087g...@4ax.com, Steve Marshall at
> asm...@es.co.nz wrote on 2/3/03 10:43 am:
>
> >> Personal IP header addresses are hidden and do not come up on my goggle
or
> >> other newsgroups. I would need special software to find it Raoul.
> >
> > George is right - specialist software like Agent Newsreader or Outlook
> > Express is needed if you're wanting to look at those deeply hidden and
> > encrypted message headers in newsgroup posts. Now, where is your
> > average Internet user going to get her hands on heavy-duty HaCk3r
> > software like that?
> >
> > ka kite
> > Steve
>
> With Agent newsreader or Outlook Espress all one can find is the IP
Number.
> But you still have to go back to google to find it as Raoul explained.
> It does not give you the other three No's IE: sub mask Number, the router
> number or the named server Number. One needs all four numbers to find out
> the real information to track down the posters real name. date of birth
etc
> etc. Its here were heavy-duty HaCk3r software can be used to find the
> poster's real name. date of birth, postcode and state or area where the
> person is living.
<snip>
I'm not saying it's impossible George, but it would take the most determined
and diligent hacker to get the details you mention. I'm willing to bet a box
of Belgian chocolates that your average punter on Usenet doesn't have the
wherewithal or the motivation to find such information. Apart from anything
else, it is most definitely illegal and they would be risking their Internet
privileges or worse if they got found out.
Raoul
george.fleming2
wrote on 2/3/03 3:40 pm:
I dont know how much you know about the internet wars which have been going
on over the past few years usually between baha'is and ex baha'is. The
Baha'i Faith is very worried about new baha'is and those who have still a
lot to learn. The are frightened that they become contaminated by ex-baha'is
and other negative Baha'i on the internet. They would stop to nothing to
keep these baha'i from entering discussion on newsgroup like TRB
Therefore, such determined diligent methods could easily be carried out in
the name of Baha'u'llah to protect the Faith and not for any criminal
purposes against non-baha'is . Although as you say most who use the internet
(especially Baha'is) would not have such knowledge. Neither would they know
who reported them for negative talk against faith until a telephone call
from an ABM warning them about their behaviour on a certain newsgroup was
not very Baha'i Like and requested them to cease posting. Others have
received much stiffer sanctions and even we have a few Baha'is who were
kicked completely out of the Faith for negative talk on the internet.
So Raoul two certain Baha'is on TRB are nor worried about you and I as non
Baha'is, what they are concerned about is keeping other baha'is from coming
onto TRB and taking sides with ex-baha'is and non Baha'is on this newsgroup.
GF
Pat Kohli
Raoul wrote:
> "george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:BA8769CD.15708%george....@ntlworld.com...
> > in article b3rbqa$v3m$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk, Raoul at no_...@invalid.com
> > wrote on 1/3/03 10:19 pm:
> >
> > > Pat didn't use 'special software' to uncover your impersonation of Paul
> > > Hammond. He simply looked at your headers for the IP address.
> > >
> > > Raoul
> >
> > Personal IP header addresses are hidden and do not come up on my goggle or
> > other newsgroups. I would need special software to find it Raoul.
>
> If you're reading your news using Google, all you have to do is click on
> 'View this article only' and 'Original Format' and you get the whole message
> including headers.
>
> >
> > For instance I cannot check to find out if you are not Paul Hammond or
> > Dermod Ryder or a new subscriber to TRB with a complete different IP
> > address.
> >
> > But Pat Kohli can.....................GF
> >
Well, George, when you were posting as Paul Hammond, I did give you the benefit
of the doubt. However, though I really truly doubt you could possibly be Raoul,
I'll peek!
Hmmm, ahhhh, ehehehe, yup!
Raoul looks to be hooked up very energetically to something like a planet.net.
You, on the other hand, appear to still be hooked up to NTL Internet, out of
Belfast. Netabuse reports for your impersonation of Paul Hammond, should go to:
Raoul, you can't get this level of entertainment on the television, now can
you? At least, it is hard to get the children's shows when I am home from work.
Pat Kohli
Raoul wrote:
Right. It is true that one can easily see the IP address, and know the
originating ISP, but real name, date of birth, sexual orientation, and, in
George's case, stocking and bust sizes, require a bit more snooping. However,
all that razzamatazz is unneeded to conclude that George has posted as Paul
Hammond, or Reliplur, etc. The common identical IP address shows that.
Best wishes!
george.fleming2
kohliCUT...@ameritel.net wrote on 2/3/03 4:51 pm:
When are you going to report your friend for impersonating Shoghi Effendi.
Or are you more concerned about your non baha'i friend's names than the
beloved Guardian of your faith Pat?.................GF
From: Shoghi Effendi (shoghi...@worldorderofbahaullah.org)
Subject: Re: MESSAGES TO AMERICA AN EMINENT RANK View: Complete Thread (2
articles)
Original FormatNewsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2002-08-20 15:28:23 PST
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Shoghi+Effendi+group:talk.religion.bahai&
start=280&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=newscache%24hrx51h%24kbw1%241%40
elise.onthenet.com.au&rnum=287
Raoul
<snip>
> Therefore, such determined diligent methods could easily be carried out in
> the name of Baha'u'llah to protect the Faith and not for any criminal
> purposes against non-baha'is . Although as you say most who use the
internet
> (especially Baha'is) would not have such knowledge. Neither would they
know
> who reported them for negative talk against faith until a telephone call
> from an ABM warning them about their behaviour on a certain newsgroup was
> not very Baha'i Like and requested them to cease posting. Others have
> received much stiffer sanctions and even we have a few Baha'is who were
> kicked completely out of the Faith for negative talk on the internet.
>
> So Raoul two certain Baha'is on TRB are nor worried about you and I as non
> Baha'is, what they are concerned about is keeping other baha'is from
coming
> onto TRB and taking sides with ex-baha'is and non Baha'is on this
newsgroup.
>
>
> GF
You seem to be saying something contradictory here. On the one hand, you
seem to be saying that non-baha'is risk been hacked and exposed for whoever
they really are. On the other hand, you seem to be saying they're not
worried about non-baha'is (beyond what influence they might have on others).
Are Baha'is so lacking in confidence about their faith that they want to
silence any and all dissent? Surely debate is a healthy thing? If I had a
position to defend, I'd be happy for something to sink my teeth into. And if
they were to (say) find out what my real identity is, who are they going to
report me to? My mother?
Raoul
george.fleming2
kohliCUT...@ameritel.net wrote on 2/3/03 5:02 pm:
Do keep on snooping Patricia dear, you might find the colour of Paul's
lipstick? Then you have a swoopsies when you visit the ladies room..GF
george.fleming2
wrote on 2/3/03 5:25 pm:
>
> "george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:BA87E320.157C0%george....@ntlworld.com...
> <snip>
>
>> Therefore, such determined diligent methods could easily be carried out in
>> the name of Baha'u'llah to protect the Faith and not for any criminal
>> purposes against non-baha'is . Although as you say most who use the
> internet
>> (especially Baha'is) would not have such knowledge. Neither would they
> know
>> who reported them for negative talk against faith until a telephone call
>> from an ABM warning them about their behaviour on a certain newsgroup was
>> not very Baha'i Like and requested them to cease posting. Others have
>> received much stiffer sanctions and even we have a few Baha'is who were
>> kicked completely out of the Faith for negative talk on the internet.
>>
>> So Raoul two certain Baha'is on TRB are nor worried about you and I as non
>> Baha'is, what they are concerned about is keeping other baha'is from
> coming
>> onto TRB and taking sides with ex-baha'is and non Baha'is on this
> newsgroup.
>>
>>
>> GF
>
> You seem to be saying something contradictory here. On the one hand, you
> seem to be saying that non-baha'is risk been hacked and exposed for whoever
> they really are. On the other hand, you seem to be saying they're not
> worried about non-baha'is (beyond what influence they might have on others).
They are only interested in reporting their own Baha'is, who ask negative
questions about the Faith, or side with ex baha'is on matters relating to
breaching their covenants or the will and testament of Abdu'l Baha. You and
I as non baha'is can act accordingly and they wont be worried. As for
hacking and exposing me, that has already been done last year. I was a
Baha'i then but resigned when the UK NSA ordered me off TRB and I refused
after pat Kohli reported me to them. If you come onto the TRB as a
non-baha'i to begin with they wont be interested in reporting you to the
Bahai AO. But Pat Kohli will report you to abusenet if you fall out of line.
He has reported some non-Baha'is to abusenet, including me for spamming and
reporting him to his US NSA only after he and Susan Maneck snitched on me.
Pat Kohli and Susan Maneck are the two Baha'i famous (FBI men) on TRB.
> Are Baha'is so lacking in confidence about their faith that they want to
> silence any and all dissent? Surely debate is a healthy thing? If I had a
> position to defend, I'd be happy for something to sink my teeth into. And if
> they were to (say) find out what my real identity is, who are they going to
> report me to? My mother?
Yes indeed thats exactly right many Baha'is lack confidence, and their
reaction is to try and silence any who would dissent. Unfortunately Baha'is
dont see debate as being healthy. In fact once you become a baha'i you are
not allowed to use your own concience. What they want is total obedience to
the Universal House and the Administrative Order. If you were a Baha'i and
you wished to sink your teeth into some argument which challenged any of
their teachings you would be given a warning first. If you persisted you
then may be sanctioned and lose your voting rights. And finally like a
number of Baha'is have experienced recently you would be evicted from the
Faith.............................................GF
Raoul
>
> Yes indeed thats exactly right many Baha'is lack confidence, and their
> reaction is to try and silence any who would dissent. Unfortunately
Baha'is
> dont see debate as being healthy. In fact once you become a baha'i you are
> not allowed to use your own concience. What they want is total obedience
to
> the Universal House and the Administrative Order. If you were a Baha'i and
> you wished to sink your teeth into some argument which challenged any of
> their teachings you would be given a warning first. If you persisted you
> then may be sanctioned and lose your voting rights. And finally like a
> number of Baha'is have experienced recently you would be evicted from the
> Faith.............................................GF
>
I hear what you are saying. There may well be a lot of 'baggage' for people
in this group and maybe in the Baha'i Faith generally. I don't particularly
feel like I want to get embroiled in it myself. But I have noted your
comments. Thanks.
Raoul
Dermod Ryder
>
> Do keep on snooping Patricia dear, you might find the colour of
Paul's
> lipstick? Then you have a swoopsies when you visit the ladies
room..GF
A "swoopsies," Georgina dear? Do you mean "swop" or "exchange?" Now
you might want to exchange lipstick with the other girls but (let me
assure you quietly on this) - real ladies never swop lipsticks with
each other!
"Hey there Georgie Girl,
There's another Georgie deep inside!"
Steve Marshall
>In fact Steve this could have been one of the way's Alison your wife was
>reported, (if she wrote negative things about the faith on the internet and
>the way they found out they are keeping it a secret from her.
It could have, but I prefer the simpler explanation that she posted
under her own name and email address, and the NSA emailed her at that
same address to say she'd been removed.
I use a copy of PCHelp's Trace <http://www.pc-help.org> to narrow down
the real source of a message. It's hardly HaCk3r software, and there's
not a lot I can find out. You're using a broadband (cable modem)
service provided by NTL and you appear to live in Belfast (blfs) -
nothing new there.
pc3-blfs1-5-cust133.blfs.cable.ntl.com [62.254.52.133]
This fantasy isn't much fun, can we try something new?
ka kite
Steve
george.fleming2
Grim_Re...@btinternet.com wrote on 2/3/03 10:00 pm:
No it's swoopsies, you swoop your lips up and you swoop your lips down.
Anyway, how do you know what ladies do when they are in the ladies room.
GF
>
>
>
>
>
>
Paul Hammond
?? The same way you do???
Paul
Paul Hammond
Nah most newsreaders (eg, Outlook Express) will show you
the full headers on any email or newsgroup message.
All you need to do is pick the menu item "Headers", and
then select "full" rather than "brief". It's just that
I know "paulham...@yahoo.com" is not me, and it's
fairly easy to guess it might be you.
Now, the big question isn't who has hacker software,
or how can I distract people from the fact that I'm a
big fat idiot.
The big question is - you owe me an apology for impersonating
me just in order to make fun of me. When will I get it?
(You can apologise either before, or after you apologise
for calling me "an ignorant idiot who knows nothing
about international politics" when I attempted to teach you
some actual facts about the UN Security Council, and
youu ended up provoking me into a five-minute
research project to discover that the first security
council meeting was held, with the same current 5
permanent members, on 19th January 1946, about 4
years before the USSR exploded its first atom bomb
- thanks for making me learn about that, George)
Paul
Paul Hammond
Hmm. rusure you're not him? What does Mrs Reaper have to
say about Dermod's ways with the ladies?
Paul
Dermod Ryder
"Paul Hammond" <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:c977f97b.03030...@posting.google.com...
> > No it's swoopsies, you swoop your lips up and you swoop your lips
down.
> >
> > Anyway, how do you know what ladies do when they are in the ladies
room.
> >
> > GF
> >
>
> ?? The same way you do???
Certainly not! I don't spy on ladies' rooms like some would; this
little snippet of information was communicated to me some years ago in
a chance conversation with a lady who was remarking about activities
such as this being taken by certain "slappers" in the ladies' room. I
understand that one of them was called Georgina!
Dermod.
>
> Paul
george.fleming2
paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 3/3/03 2:24 am:
You stated all 15 security council members had equal voting rights. This
is not true. The Five bigs have VETO'S (the other 10 members dont) So dont
try and worm your way out of it by making an excuse the Five bigs didnt
have nuclear weapons after WW2 when the UN was first formed.
All five bigs have nuclear weapons far superior than any other country
TODAY. Its the present situation were the debate taken place and the UN
has to make a decision about over this Iraq war. NOT AFTER WW2.
As for making apoligies about making fun out of you.
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP MAKING FUN OF ME WHEN I TAKE ON A DIFFERENT NAME
ON BELIEFNET (WHICH IS FECK ALL TO DO WITH YOU WHAT NAME OR ALIAS I TAKE ON)
THE RULES OF THE INTERNET ALLOWS ONE TO TAKE ON OTHER NAMES TO PROTECT ONE'S
REAL NAME. HOW IS IT OTHER SUBSCRIBERS ON TRB AND BELIEFNET HAVE USED
DIFFERENT NAMES FROM TIME TO TIME AND ACCORDING TO YOU I AM NOT?
FINALLY I HAVE NO PROOF PAUL HAMMOND IS YOUR REAL NAME. RAOUL HAS STATED
THIS IS NOT HIS NAME SO YOU COULD BE ALSO USING AN ALIAS......GF
Pat Kohli
Paul Hammond wrote:
You are going to confuse Cal, and he was pulling for you George, maybe even pulling for all of you.
Dermod Ryder
altogether more
> > attractive to women.
> >
> >
>
> Hmm. rusure you're not him? What does Mrs Reaper have to
> say about Dermod's ways with the ladies?
She doesn't like it! But I do - 'tis a grand way to keep her in line
and on her toes! Nothing like a bit of competition!
Dermod.
Dermod Ryder
> You stated all 15 security council members had equal voting rights.
This
> is not true. The Five bigs have VETO'S (the other 10 members dont)
So dont
> try and worm your way out of it by making an excuse the Five bigs
didnt
> have nuclear weapons after WW2 when the UN was first formed.
Feck this for a lark! The Bahais have nukes now!
> All five bigs have nuclear weapons far superior than any other
country
> TODAY. Its the present situation were the debate taken place and
the UN
> has to make a decision about over this Iraq war. NOT AFTER WW2.
Twice feck this! The Bahais have bigger weapons than anybody else but
fortunately there's only five of them - "exit by troops" is a complete
success!
> WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP MAKING FUN OF ME WHEN I TAKE ON A
DIFFERENT NAME
> ON BELIEFNET (WHICH IS FECK ALL TO DO WITH YOU WHAT NAME OR ALIAS I
TAKE ON)
> THE RULES OF THE INTERNET ALLOWS ONE TO TAKE ON OTHER NAMES TO
PROTECT ONE'S
> REAL NAME. HOW IS IT OTHER SUBSCRIBERS ON TRB AND BELIEFNET HAVE
USED
> DIFFERENT NAMES FROM TIME TO TIME AND ACCORDING TO YOU I AM NOT?
>
> FINALLY I HAVE NO PROOF PAUL HAMMOND IS YOUR REAL NAME. RAOUL HAS
STATED
> THIS IS NOT HIS NAME SO YOU COULD BE ALSO USING AN ALIAS......GF
Georgina, dear, please don't shout! It ill becomes a young lady of
good family ... or even a slapper!
Dermod Ryder
> When are you going to report your friend for impersonating Shoghi
Effendi.
> Or are you more concerned about your non baha'i friend's names than
the
> beloved Guardian of your faith Pat?.................GF
>
> From: Shoghi Effendi (shoghi...@worldorderofbahaullah.org)
> Subject: Re: MESSAGES TO AMERICA AN EMINENT RANK View: Complete
Thread (2
> articles)
> Original FormatNewsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
> Date: 2002-08-20 15:28:23 PST
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Shoghi+Effendi+group:talk.religion.b
ahai&
>
start=280&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=newscache%24hrx51h%24kbw1%
241%40
> elise.onthenet.com.au&rnum=287
Georgina dear, now that you've learned how to find the headers on a
message, the next step is to understand them. If you study this
message, which you accuse me of sending, carefully, you'll find that
it was posted from Australia and you well know, you naughty girl, that
I'm only 20 miles away from you and not in the land of Australians.
>
Paul Hammond
Nope. I never said this, except in your imagination.
Can you provide the post where I said this?
We were all here, and we *know* you are lying.
What I stated was that the big five being permanent
members has nothing to do with them being nuclear
powers. I never mentioned the word "veto", that was
you, trying to squirm your way out of being wrong
once again.
> All five bigs have nuclear weapons far superior than any other country
> TODAY. Its the present situation were the debate taken place and the UN
> has to make a decision about over this Iraq war. NOT AFTER WW2.
>
You told me that I was a know-nothing ignorant little boy
for telling you that the five being permanent members had
nothing to do with them being nuclear powers.
You didn't believe me, and called me names for daring to
know something you didn't.
Eventually, I went to the UN website, and a website about
the development of nuclear tests and compared dates.
The five permanent members of the UN security council
signed off on the UN charter in late 1945, the first
meeting of the UN security council took place in
January 1946.
At that time, there was only one nuclear power in the
world.
The USSR exploded its first bomb in 1949, Britain
in something like 1952, France in 1960 and
China in 1963, IIRC.
QED, their permanent membership has and had nothing
whatsoever to do with their possession of nuclear
weapons, and everything to do with them being the
victorious allies at the end of WWII.
> As for making apoligies about making fun out of you.
>
> WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP MAKING FUN OF ME WHEN I TAKE ON A DIFFERENT NAME
> ON BELIEFNET (WHICH IS FECK ALL TO DO WITH YOU WHAT NAME OR ALIAS I TAKE ON)
> THE RULES OF THE INTERNET ALLOWS ONE TO TAKE ON OTHER NAMES TO PROTECT ONE'S
> REAL NAME. HOW IS IT OTHER SUBSCRIBERS ON TRB AND BELIEFNET HAVE USED
> DIFFERENT NAMES FROM TIME TO TIME AND ACCORDING TO YOU I AM NOT?
>
> FINALLY I HAVE NO PROOF PAUL HAMMOND IS YOUR REAL NAME. RAOUL HAS STATED
> THIS IS NOT HIS NAME SO YOU COULD BE ALSO USING AN ALIAS......GF
George,
There is a difference between happening to have two different
email accounts, and going to Yahoo precisely to create an
identity in order to take the piss.
The answer to when am I going to stop making fun of you
is never - you are a piece of shit, and I will go on saying
so while you keep acting that way.
And George, there's no need to shout. We all know that you are
just cross because we all found you out so easily, and you haven't
got the skill to make a fake identity sufficiently different
from yourself to fool anyone.
Another thing that I haven't done is start threads to make fun
of you. Like when you swear at Dermod, it is just a sign that
you're getting rattled.
Paul