BMG branded CDs
EDS
that are branded with the BMG label even though they originally come from
other major labels. Is there any difference between these CDs and the
originals?
Thanks
EDS
Bob Lombard
You have spotted the only difference.
bl
Tom D
> Looking on Ebay (I'm a newbie ebayer), I noticed that there are a lot of CDs
> that are branded with the BMG label even though they originally come from
> other major labels.
Probably means they were sold by the BMG Record Club. "BMG" (the club)
*usually* sells discs that are labeled as specially manufactured for
the club. (Not always, though; I recently bought a Nonesuch that was
not BMG-labeled.)
> Is there any difference between these CDs and the originals?
No sonic difference IMO, and no one whose opinion I respect has ever
presented evidence of any. I've read of packaging/booklet differences
(other than BMG label), though I can't recall any examples offhand.
FWIW, there are constant grumblings in "audiophile circles" (check
Google archives) that record club CDs are specially produced so as to
be sonically inferior ;-).
At any rate, it's considered "good form" on eBay for sellers to
indicate record club CDs. Either for audiophile nuts, or for buyers
who'd resent the fact that the seller got the discs relatively
cheaply.
Paul Goldstein
Assuming you mean the BMG Classical Music Club label, the answer is no.
Paul Goldstein
Tony Movshon
Joshua Kaufman
>
>
> At any rate, it's considered "good form" on eBay for sellers to
> indicate record club CDs. Either for audiophile nuts, or for buyers
> who'd resent the fact that the seller got the discs relatively
> cheaply.
I don't mind so must when it's BMG (or the odd Columbia House that notes
it -- but most CH look like retail), but MHS, especially the old white
ones. Especially since you might get BMGs from Berkshire, so anyone
ordering from there will likely get some...
-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:3EB53C00...@nyu.edu:
And sometimes the catalogue number, which can be annoying if one cares
about such things.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
Eric Grunin
I've noticed one tiny but annoying difference. In some cases, the
booklets are made from second-generation copies, and so are blurry or
have bad color correction compared to the original.
The first time I got one of these I thought it was a counterfeit of
some kind -- it's made the way counterfeits are made, from a scan of
the original -- then I noticed "Mfd. for BMG Direct" on the back, in
nice sharp type.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
Mark Stenroos
> On Sun, 04 May 2003 10:35:01 GMT, "EDS" <can...@spamme.com> wrote:
>
> >Looking on Ebay (I'm a newbie ebayer), I noticed that there are a lot of CDs
> >that are branded with the BMG label even though they originally come from
> >other major labels. Is there any difference between these CDs and the
> >originals?
>
I managed the BMG Classical club from 1992-94, and I seem to answer
this question every two years or so, so here goes:
The club manufactures their CDs under license from the respective
labels. Masters and CD booklet film are provided by the licensor to
BMG. BMG usually removes the original barcode from the original film
and strips in a unique barcode and their legal language (ie:
Manufactured under license by BMG...") on both the booklets and the CD
label. One reason this is done is to keep the club CDs from coming
back through retail as returns. The club barcode won't be found in the
retail system. That doesn't mean the discs don't get sold off on e-bay
or at used CD stores. However, BMG and CH are prohibted by contract by
dumping their manufactured versions onto remainder (ie: cut-out)
dealers. They must destroy their overage. Sounds wasteful, but it's
actually a great incentive to manage inventory effectively.
The master used to press the recording is the same master used by,
say, Universal USA. BMG usually manufactures at their JVC plant, but
on some occasions, they simply go to the licensor's plant and
piggyback their run onto the end of the licensor's run, changing only
the CD label film in the process.
The BMG Club masterings are identical to the retail masterings, and,
in fact, the whole Club operation is set up for expediency. BMG would
NEVER spend the time or money to "ruin" a mastering by making it
inferior to the retail release. Believe me. It doesn't happen. If an
audiophile tells you differently, he's mistaken.
The CD booklets often look inferior to retail because 1) they are
usually printed on a lower-quality paper, and 2) expensive things like
gold leaf are replaced by standard 4-colour process CMYK tones. If a
multi-disc set doesn't really need a slipcase, that's discarded too.
Likewise O-rings on single CDs. BMG saves alot of money here and that
allows them to offer the CDs at low prices. This is the only noticable
difference between BMG Club and retail product. If it bothers you,
then buy from retail.
The licensee contracts that the record clubs have with the record
labels allow them to buy "finished goods" directly from the label's
warehouse. This comes in handy when you're buying expensive multi-CD
sets and/or discs that are only going to sell a couple of hundred
copies in a year. When I was at BMG, the rule of thumb was to buy
finished goods unless you projected selling 5,000+ units of a single
disc over a 2-year period. If a disc was going to sell large
quantities, we secured the parts and did our own manufacturing. If
there was less demand projected, we bought finished goods. I imagine
that rule still stands.
That's it.
Joshua Kaufman
>
> Eric Grunin <a@b.c> wrote in message news:<hbjabvs3rppnltk0u...@4ax.com>...
> > On Sun, 04 May 2003 10:35:01 GMT, "EDS" <can...@spamme.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Looking on Ebay (I'm a newbie ebayer), I noticed that there are a lot of CDs
> > >that are branded with the BMG label even though they originally come from
> > >other major labels. Is there any difference between these CDs and the
> > >originals?
> >
>
> I managed the BMG Classical club from 1992-94, and I seem to answer
> this question every two years or so, so here goes:
>
> The club manufactures their CDs under license from the respective
> labels. Masters and CD booklet film are provided by the licensor to
> BMG. BMG usually removes the original barcode from the original film
> and strips in a unique barcode and their legal language (ie:
> Manufactured under license by BMG...") on both the booklets and the CD
> label. One reason this is done is to keep the club CDs from coming
> back through retail as returns. The club barcode won't be found in the
> retail system. That doesn't mean the discs don't get sold off on e-bay
> or at used CD stores. However, BMG and CH are prohibted by contract by
> dumping their manufactured versions onto remainder (ie: cut-out)
> dealers. They must destroy their overage. Sounds wasteful, but it's
> actually a great incentive to manage inventory effectively.
>
Then why do BGM CDs show up at Berkshire?
-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon
Norman Schwartz
"Joshua Kaufman" <terrr...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3EB5B1AC...@fuse.net...
Probably for the same reason CDs I received indicated "Not For Sale Outside
Of The Netherlands" or "For Promotional Use Only, Not for Resale".
Bob Lombard
wrote:
>Then why do BGM CDs show up at Berkshire?
>
BMG CDs are not necessarily BMG Music Club CDs.
bl
Joshua Kaufman
Er...I meant music club ones. I've gotten at least three, probably more.
-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon
Joseph Vitale
> On Sun, 04 May 2003 10:35:01 GMT, "EDS" <can...@spamme.com> wrote:
>
>>Looking on Ebay (I'm a newbie ebayer), I noticed that there are a lot
>>of CDs that are branded with the BMG label even though they originally
>>come from other major labels. Is there any difference between these
>>CDs and the originals?
>
> I've noticed one tiny but annoying difference. In some cases, the
> booklets are made from second-generation copies, and so are blurry or
> have bad color correction compared to the original.
My findings exactly.
JV
EDS
guys told me EXACTLY what I wanted to know. I should have specified that I
was talking about the BMG *CLUB* CDs, and not the "normal" BMG brand CDs you
might find in stores.
While I'm here, I have another question. What's a "cutout" cd?
Thanks again
EDS
Raymond Hall
You really wouldn't want to know, except that in Mickey Mouse land, they
literally *butcher* a product, such as punching a hole physically through
the CD case, cover notes, narrowly missing the CD, in order that it not be
returned to another retailer, or sold as new, or whatever ...
Strange, bizarre, almost unbelievable, but absolutely true ...
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)
Ray, Taree, NSW
Mark Stenroos
If what you're saying is true, then someone somewhere is doing
something illegal. If you had it in for the BMG Club, you might report
this to the appropriate licensor label. Whether they'd do anything
about it is something else.
BTW - Bertlesmann (the company, not the club)paid a multi-million
dollar fine about 4 years ago for illegally selling overage in Latin
America. Seems they pressed up too many copies of a USA release, so
they shipped the inventory down south to liquidate it. Unfortunately,
they had not secured the appropriate licenses to sell the CDs in that
territory. They got caught, and they paid up. It's the kind of thing
that happens when you fire all the experienced industry types and
replace them with whiz kids who have no idea about how the business
works. It was all reported in Billboard at the time.
Norman Schwartz
Bernstein, Songs & Orchestral Music from West Side Story {w.Norman,
Carreras, Te Kanawa et al.}, Mass {w.Rostropovich}, Trouble in Tahiti,
Candide {w.Hadley et al.}, Age of Anxiety, On the Town, Serenade. (Composer
& Tilson Thomas cond.)
Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: A | Code: D
125461 | BRO Code: 30741 | Label: DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON
| Genre: Songs & Arias
CDs with catalog nos. D xxxxx are BMG club discs.
"Mark Stenroos" <markst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9b05210b.03050...@posting.google.com...
> Joshua Kaufman <terrr...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:<3EB5DBF5...@fuse.net>...
> > Bob Lombard wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 05 May 2003 00:42:01 GMT, Joshua Kaufman <terrr...@fuse.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Then why do BGM CDs show up at Berkshire?
> > > >
> > > BMG CDs are not necessarily BMG Music Club CDs.
> > >
> >
> > Er...I meant music club ones. I've gotten at least three, probably more.
> >
>
> If what you're saying is true, then someone somewhere is doing
> something illegal. If you had it in for the BMG Club, you might report
> this to the appropriate licensor label. Whether they'd do anything
> about it is something else.
When and if I should ever have "it in " for anyone, I don't turn around and
try to make trouble for them (and don't really understand why such a thought
even enters your mind). I simply avoid them.
Dana Hill
> And sometimes the catalogue number, which can be annoying if one cares
> about such things.
>
Although the original catalog number will usually be printed in parentheses
below BMG's number on the actual disc.
Dana Hill
Gainesville, Florida
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: I managed the BMG Classical club from 1992-94. . .
I was in the BMG Classical club during that time, so maybe you can answer
a question that's always puzzled me. At the time, members who had fulfilled
their purchase obligation got this "buy one get two free and the fourth at
half price" deal. Why on earth would I buy four CDs when it would be
cheaper to buy six? I understood that your decision to send the CDs
fourth class (even though your postage charges would have allowed you to
send them first class with money left over) was motivated by the hope that
by the time the package arrived, the customer wouldn't be able to remember
if he'd actually wanted the Main Selection or not. But were your customers
really that dumb that they couldn't figure out that it was actually not in
their own best interests to accept the "fourth CD half price" deal?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Paul Goldstein
"Norman says...
>
>Here is one such "club disc" available from Berkshire:
>
> Bernstein, Songs & Orchestral Music from West Side Story {w.Norman,
>Carreras, Te Kanawa et al.}, Mass {w.Rostropovich}, Trouble in Tahiti,
>Candide {w.Hadley et al.}, Age of Anxiety, On the Town, Serenade. (Composer
>& Tilson Thomas cond.)
>Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: A | Code: D
>125461 | BRO Code: 30741 | Label: DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON
>| Genre: Songs & Arias
>
>
>CDs with catalog nos. D xxxxx are BMG club discs.
Yes; I've also seen (and purchased) cut-out BMG Club issues at Tower Outlets.
Paul Goldstein
Dana Hill
"Mark Stenroos" <markst...@yahoo.com>
> The CD booklets often look inferior to retail because 1) they are
> usually printed on a lower-quality paper, and 2) expensive things like
> gold leaf are replaced by standard 4-colour process CMYK tones. If a
> multi-disc set doesn't really need a slipcase, that's discarded too.
> Likewise O-rings on single CDs. BMG saves alot of money here and that
> allows them to offer the CDs at low prices. This is the only noticable
> difference between BMG Club and retail product. If it bothers you,
> then buy from retail.
>
The only problems I have with the above is that, unless they are on sale,
which they usually are, BMG lists these inferiorly packaged sets at the same
prices that a retail store charges for the originals and doesn't disclose
that they have been altered.
Also, I disagree that the only difference is the quality of the paper. I
have a few BMG issues of EMI's GROC series, and the booklet and tray insert
really do look like a bad photocopy. A few years back I bought the BMG club
issue of Runnicles' set of Hansel and Gretel on Teldec and the album art was
so poorly done that it was almost laughable. In one area if looks as though
the scan tech who was scanning the original moved it while it was on the
glass and the image has smeared.
But, hey, it's just cosmetic. The sound has always been the same, and 90+%
of the time the album art does look perfectly fine.
Dana Hill
Gainesville, Florida
> The licensee contracts that the record clubs have with the record
> labels allow them to buy "finished goods" directly from the label's
> warehouse. This comes in handy when you're buying expensive multi-CD
> sets and/or discs that are only going to sell a couple of hundred
> copies in a year. When I was at BMG, the rule of thumb was to buy
> finished goods unless you projected selling 5,000+ units of a single
> disc over a 2-year period. If a disc was going to sell large
> quantities, we secured the parts and did our own manufacturing. If
> there was less demand projected, we bought finished goods. I imagine
> that rule still stands.
This explains why when I bought the Karajan Boheme on London/Decca it came
in the inferior, flimsy paperboard slipcase, whereas the many other complete
operas have been identical in every way to the retail version.
Raymond Luxury Yacht
While the quality of these efforts vary, it seems that it is ALWAYS
the case that BMG reconstructs the artwork for each of their cds. In
some cases, the blurring or moire pattern is clearly evident on the
booklet cover even without comparing it to the original. But I'd bet
that in every case comparing the BMG cd to the original would show a
difference.
That said, I think that unless the cd is a demonstrable fetish item or
collectible, I don't think it matters at all- even if the packaging is
blurry. I can't imagine any of the latter at BMG. The former might
include items like Coltrane's A Love Supreme in its recent digipac
incarnation. The BMG release has washed-out blacks on the box.
Even in a bad copy a BMG cd is readable and has all the essential
information one could need to enjoy the recording. Or at least the
exact same amount as the original. What are we buying and selling?
Music. And since there is no quality difference where it matters,
nobody on Amazon or Half.com lists the source of the CD as BMG.
CDChoice doesn't list it. Berkshire doesn't list it (yes, I've gotten
BMG Music Club discs from Berkshire before). And I don't see why
anyone on EBay should have to list it. If someone is that fussy, they
can take the opportunity to ask the seller about it. There's no way
for a seller to hide such info- even not answering- that won't damage
the salability of the item and potentially harm his feedback rating.
And I'd like to say that I say this as a fetishist myself- I just
don't believe that my distraction with the bad Love Supreme printing
is important.
Eric Grunin
wrote:
>I managed the BMG Classical club from 1992-94, and I seem to answer
>this question every two years or so, so here goes:
Thank you for the detailed (and presumably authoritative) response.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
If it was reported in Billboard, then we can pretty much ignore it because
it had nothing whatever to do with classical music. :--(
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:b962q1$v8q$1...@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu:
>> And sometimes the catalogue number, which can be annoying if one
>> cares about such things.
>>
>
> Although the original catalog number will usually be printed in
> parentheses below BMG's number on the actual disc.
I've seen some where it wasn't.
Joshua Kaufman
>
> Eric Grunin <a@b.c> wrote in message news:<hbjabvs3rppnltk0u...@4ax.com>...
> > On Sun, 04 May 2003 10:35:01 GMT, "EDS" <can...@spamme.com> wrote:
> >
> > The first time I got one of these I thought it was a counterfeit of
> > some kind -- it's made the way counterfeits are made, from a scan of
> > the original -- then I noticed "Mfd. for BMG Direct" on the back, in
> > nice sharp type.
> > Eric Grunin
>
> While the quality of these efforts vary, it seems that it is ALWAYS
> the case that BMG reconstructs the artwork for each of their cds. In
> some cases, the blurring or moire pattern is clearly evident on the
> booklet cover even without comparing it to the original. But I'd bet
> that in every case comparing the BMG cd to the original would show a
> difference.
>
> That said, I think that unless the cd is a demonstrable fetish item or
> collectible, I don't think it matters at all- even if the packaging is
> blurry. I can't imagine any of the latter at BMG. The former might
> include items like Coltrane's A Love Supreme in its recent digipac
> incarnation. The BMG release has washed-out blacks on the box.
>
> Even in a bad copy a BMG cd is readable and has all the essential
> information one could need to enjoy the recording. Or at least the
> exact same amount as the original. What are we buying and selling?
> Music. And since there is no quality difference where it matters,
> nobody on Amazon or Half.com lists the source of the CD as BMG.
Nobody? I do...and I've seen others, though they don't always.
> And I don't see why
> anyone on EBay should have to list it. If someone is that fussy, they
> can take the opportunity to ask the seller about it.
Because it's something importent that some people care about. But then
again, so is conductor/performer/piece/composer/etc and THOSE aren't
always listed either.
> There's no way
> for a seller to hide such info- even not answering- that won't damage
> the salability of the item and potentially harm his feedback rating.
>
If a seller doesn't answer a question, I'm very unlikely to bid. I
usually won't ask about club disc or not unless I suspect it's an MHS or
already have the MHS, though.
-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon
Mark Stenroos
> In article <9b05210b.03050...@posting.google.com>, Mark Stenroos <markst...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> : I managed the BMG Classical club from 1992-94. . .
>
> I was in the BMG Classical club during that time, so maybe you can answer
> a question that's always puzzled me. At the time, members who had fulfilled
> their purchase obligation got this "buy one get two free and the fourth at
> half price" deal. Why on earth would I buy four CDs when it would be
> cheaper to buy six? I understood that your decision to send the CDs
> fourth class (even though your postage charges would have allowed you to
> send them first class with money left over) was motivated by the hope that
> by the time the package arrived, the customer wouldn't be able to remember
> if he'd actually wanted the Main Selection or not. But were your customers
> really that dumb that they couldn't figure out that it was actually not in
> their own best interests to accept the "fourth CD half price" deal?
>
Good questions!
The various offers that appeared during my stint were thought up by
the marketing department, which was separate from the A&R dept where I
worked (A&R stood for Artists and Repertoire though we referred to
ourselves as the Anal and Retentive dept). These offers were used
across the board in all genres at the same time (ie: the classical
offer was the same as the rock, country, etc on any given day).
Some of them were very confusing. There were a few occasions where
people were heard muttering "who thought THAT one up?" in the halls
after the customer complaints reached a certain level.
Is it any less confusing these days? I don't know...
Paul Goldstein
>
>Raymond Luxury Yacht wrote:
>> And I don't see why
>> anyone on EBay should have to list it. If someone is that fussy, they
>> can take the opportunity to ask the seller about it.
>
>Because it's something importent that some people care about. But then
>again, so is conductor/performer/piece/composer/etc and THOSE aren't
>always listed either.
I always disclose that a disc is from BMG or Columbia House or MHS when I put
such an item up for sale on ebay. IMO you are asking for needless trouble if
you don't. The fact that IMO it makes no musical difference is beside the
point. With regard to BMG, I usually go on to state that the disc is
bit-for-bit identical to the 'official' release.
Paul Goldstein
Owen Hartnett
I find they're all based on single disk purchases, and there's no
corresponding connection to boxed sets, so I just don't buy boxed sets,
since I can't understand them (and, apparently, neither can they).
-Owen, who hasn't bought anything in a while from BMG anyway.
Joshua Kaufman
In fact, I was just offered by phone a deal of buy 3, get 9 free. Doing
the math, it seems to be be about $8.70 as disc (if all three new ones
are $18), which is just about the normal price on most deals anyway....
Not to mention the 'default' things they'd send sounded like crossover
stuff (I didn't pay attention fully....)
-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon