Bahais & Islamic hadeeths Part I
nokh...@hotmail.com
Dear readers. It seems our hyped up bahai friend has a taste for shooting
himself in the foot some more.
In the recent posts titled Bahai Quran parts I & II we examined the
verses of the Quran that Kavian quotes and have already shown him to be a
lier and a deceiver. Please refer to those articles posted on July 20th
1997.
It seems Kavian has not learned the lesson I tried in vain (apparently)
to teach him. Kavian you need to relax a bit buddy. Your blood pressure
has gone way too high. You need to learn from Nafeh Fananapazirs
posts.Nafeh is polite and deserves respect back. You only invite ridicule
back with your approach to argumentation. But hey, I guess thats you.
By the way, long time ago you said that you were a medical student. One
such article was:
Subject: Re: Covenant and covenant-breakers
From: Kavian Sadeghzade Milani <ks...@avery.med.virginia.edu>
Date: 1996/09/14
Message-Id: <51g0eu$9...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
[More Headers]
Now, I don't think medical students undergo "graduate courses" in Islamic
Studies like you claim here. As an undergraduate you might have taken one
of those introductory world religions courses that many of us also took
but that hardly qualifies you as a "scholar".
I myself am a dental student so I won't claim much more. But I have been
past president of a local Muslim Students Association and involved in
much discusion of Islam with other faiths so my knowledge is not too
shabby. I also spent 15 years in Kuwait so I know Arabic safe to say
better than you. My haddeeths are all found in many scholars works. If
you wish you can refer to the article "Finality of prophetood" by Syed
Mududi who millions of sunni muslims considered to have been a ecent
reformer of Islam (mujaddid) as well as recognised as the father of the
Islamic movement and party of Pakistan. His tafsirs (commentary) are
highly sought after and greatly respected. The whole article can be found
in my site.
With regards to sources. The hadeeths I quote give the sections that the
verse can be found in a particular accepted compilation. For example, if
it says , Tirmidi, kitab-al-adab, it means the section in Tirmidhi
compilation called kitab-al-adab.
Now what are the generally well known and accepted compilations: Bukhari,
Muslim, Abu DAwud, Muwatta Malik, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Nisai. The less
well known are Musnad Ahmad, Bayhaqi, Fayruzubadi, Ibn Hajar, Hakim,
Al-Husayni, Ibn Khuzaymah, al-Mizzi, Muhammad, Qushayri, Suyuti and
finally Tabarani.
This site has most of Bukhari and Muslim online as well as half of Abu
Abu DAwud and partial also of Malik :
http://wings.buffalo.edu/student-life/sa/muslim/isl/texts.html
The individual books which I quote here in my hadeeths eg. Bukhari,
kitab-al-fadail are all found there. The only problem is that for the
bukhari site the English translation of the name is only shown while.
As you can see from the site, the site is in the midst of putting online
all the compilations of hadiths I have mentioned above.
This site alows you to do a search (boolean also) for hadeeths:
http://cwis.usc.edu:80/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
The search engine is not that great though. It needs more development as
it doesn't allow for part words which can be a problem because Arabic
words could be spelled many ways in English.
For the compilations not yet online, anyone can go to a large Universiy
Library Islamic section and they should carry most of the major ones
hopefully in English but in Arabic definitely (for a decent University).
Incidentall, various Quranic translations can be found at this site:
Quranic boolean searches can be done at this site:
http://goon.stg.brown.edu/quran_browser/pqeasy.shtml
A quranic index can be found at :
http://www.umr.edu/~msaumr/topics/
By the way, pardon me therefore if I don't believe you that you are
graduate student in Islamic Studies or took graduate courses. I highly
doubt you have the full collection of the above compilations I mentioned
.
Now to the article.....
On 20 July, 1997 ks...@avery.med.Virginia.EDU (Kavian Sadeghzade Milani)
wrote:
>> Why don't you go to the sources for these sermons parts of which are
>> found in various collections and find out for yourself bolboli jan.
>Nukudi jan since I have done graduate work in Islam and unlike
>yourself am familiar with Arabic and I actually have these
>books in my library I have examined your claims and found them
>false. I ask that the readers do the same.
>I had previously written:
>
Aren't we stretching the truth a little now.
>> > The same goes for the same 20 pages of hadith that nukudi etal
>> > keep posting. I challenge nukudi to post these traditions with
>> > a page # and section # for the benefit of the readership
>> > henceforth!
>
I have quoted the compilation and the section these are found in. Further
I have given above URLs to sites where partial portions are on-line. More
will be so in the future God willing. The ones not online can be found in
a university library.
It is more than I can say for you bahais. Kavian as demonstarted in the
Bahai Quran series of articles even lies about translations of the verses
of the Quran.
>I thank nukudi for posting the same manufactured traditions
>with new twists again!
>
Lets see then shall we? We'll examine them. As I said you are a God send
Kavian. You are so hot-headed and so eager to "get" me than you shoot
yourself in the foot in the process. Now.....
>Nukudi! maybe these traditions are from "a history of bahai
>faith" by UHJ!
>btw, I am waiting for ISBN#, Publishing trust, Library of
>congress # !!
Go ask Webmaster. I didn't quote that book and didn't refer to it and
don't know what you are blabbing on about.
>Shame on you nukudi.
>> Funny coming from a bahai. In ALL the hadeeths I have quoted I have
>> quoted the source of the hadeeth. Bahais quote sayings without ANY >source
>> whatsoever. Bahaullah in his writings didn't even give a single source
>> for the baloney traditions he quotes.
>
>Apparently you are tragically mis-informed and this confirms
>that you have NEVER openned the Qur'an ;-)
>
Thank you but I have been a prize winning Qari(reciter) of the Quran too
and go through it once in toto every 2-3 months.
>God is not bound by the rules of language that you and I are
>bound with. For example the Quran states that Jesus said:
> An Apostle will come after me whose name is Ahmad.
> Qur'an 61:6
Who accepted bahaullah as a prophet? You argument is circular.
>The Quran can, nukudi jan, not give credit or give a reference,
>but laws of reference do apply to you! Or do they?
>
They apply to everyone. Maybe bahais might take notice..
>It is noted that every suposed attack by nukudi etal meant for
>the Baha'i Faith seems to land on the Quran.
>The Quran can be heard:
> They destroy their own houses with their own hands
> and by the hands of believers! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Qur'an 59:2
>
I'm getting suspicious now. Are you by any chance really a muslim and
trying to deliberatly sabotage the bahai claims? Again you misquote the
verse (then Roger wonders why I talk about a "bahai" Quran) :
Quran 59:2:
"It is He who got out the unbelievers among the people of the Book from
their HOMES at the first gathering (of the forces). Little did ye think
thet they would get out. And they thought that their fortresses would
defend them from Allah! But the (wrath of) Allah came to them from
quarters from which they little expected (it) and cast terror into their
hearts, so that they destroyed THEIR DWELLINGS by their own hands and the
hands of the believers. Take warning then O ye with eyes (to see) !"
But you know what, I am still flattered that you seem to think the Quran
has so many verses especially for Nokhodchi jaaaaaaan. By the way thank
you for quoting atleast from real scripture not from bahaullah. You also
seem to think the Quran is way more superior.
> They want to extinguish the light of God by blowing.
> But God wills to perfect his light even if the dis-
> believers hate it! Qur'an 61:8
>
See bolboli jaaaan. Why don't you listen? The Quran is saying that no
matter however much the bahais try they cannot extinguish God's light.
Alas! Bahais take no heed and learn no lesson.
>Dear disputant, my friend, heed the Quran. I beg you.
>
Beg some more then.
>> I pray for you dear
>> > sir, but I am fearful for you.
booooooo!!!
hehehehe
The Quran reveals:
>> >
>> > They try to deceive Godand those who believe,
>> > yet deceive non but themselves, although they do not know.
>
You read this and you are still deluded? Shame on you bolboli jaan.
>> > Sick are their hearts, and God adds to their malady,
>> > for them is a grevious suffering for they lie.
>> > Quran 2:9-10
>
>
noch noch noch noch. God must have added a ton of malady to you by now
and you are still stubborn. What hope of mercy do you have? hehhehe
>> > Warm Regards,
>> > Kavian
>>
>Well! It would have been a nice time to move the discussion to
>SOC.rel. bahai! But Mr. nukudi's ego is hurt!>
>
Really hurt. I am in deep pain here. hehhee
>> You make this enjoyable again. Thanks.
>
>As a Baha'i it is my priviledge to bring joy to you and every
>human soul nukudi jan!
>
Thanks. Please keep it up.
continued in part II....
For the real truth about bahaism please refer to this site:
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3016/index.htm
Afshin Afrashteh aka the NOKHODCHI
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Kavian Sadeghzade Milani
nokh...@hotmail.com writes:
> In the recent posts titled Bahai Quran parts I & II we examined the
> verses of the Quran that Kavian quotes and have already shown him to be a
> lier and a deceiver. Please refer to those articles posted on July 20th
> 1997.
traditions in support of your thesis. I merely pointed out that
in each and every case your translators have taken liberties
with translations such as replacing Messenger for nabi, among
others and in some cases you introduced material that
historically does not exist! Such was the case for example with
the farewell sermon of the prophet and paragraphs added that
cannot be simple oversights IMHO. Your dislike for the Baha'i
Faith is causing you to add material to the prophets last
sermon. I question the sincerity of your translators; and I
assume you didn't translate.
Nukudi jan! This cannot be masked with myriad namecalling,
polemical fits and bad-mouthing. Your problem is that the Quran
emphatically and unequivocally lines up and is consistent with
Baha'i theology and thought. You may publically and vehemently
disagree and that is your perogetive.
> It seems Kavian has not learned the lesson I tried in vain (apparently)
> to teach him. Kavian you need to relax a bit buddy. Your blood pressure
> has gone way too high. You need to learn from Nafeh Fananapazirs
> posts.Nafeh is polite and deserves respect back. You only invite ridicule
> back with your approach to argumentation. But hey, I guess thats you.
This reminds me of the British colonial gimmic of Divide and
conquer as played out in India. Well I have news for you sir.
lIKE MASTER LIKE SERVANT! Just a thought! ;-)
It is doomed to fail as are all attempts to introduce factions
in to the Baha'i Faith is and will remain the only undivided
religion and will remain as such forever.
OF COURSE you have had the priviledge of seeing THREE azali's!
They are mentioned in "The history of bahai Faith" by UHJ!
> By the way, long time ago you said that you were a medical student. One
> such article was:
>
>
> Subject: Re: Covenant and covenant-breakers
> From: Kavian Sadeghzade Milani <ks...@avery.med.virginia.edu>
> Date: 1996/09/14
> Message-Id: <51g0eu$9...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>
> Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Curious, is it not?
Actually ...Write me if you have time and we can talk in person.
> Now, I don't think medical students undergo "graduate courses" in Islamic
> Studies like you claim here. As an undergraduate you might have taken one
> of those introductory world religions courses that many of us also took
> but that hardly qualifies you as a "scholar".
I have no claim to scholarship of any kind, but I did check out
your sources and found them to be forged and manufactured.
Medical doctor or not is irrevalant.
> I myself am a dental student so I won't claim much more. But I have been
> past president of a local Muslim Students Association and involved in
> much discusion of Islam with other faiths so my knowledge is not too
> shabby. I also spent 15 years in Kuwait so I know Arabic safe to say
> better than you.
I will not say much on this just that I am impressed with your
achievments.
But is tangential to our dialogue b/c you have not translated
the works yourself. You just keep re-posting them.
My haddeeths are all found in many scholars works. If
> you wish you can refer to the article "Finality of prophetood" by Syed
> Mududi who millions of sunni muslims considered to have been a ecent
> reformer of Islam (mujaddid) as well as recognised as the father of the
> Islamic movement and party of Pakistan. His tafsirs (commentary) are
> highly sought after and greatly respected. The whole article can be found
> in my site.
I will that the most comprehensive and astute study of the
FInality of Islam is by the late Mutahari. As an Islamic
scholar he was honest enough to not to forge material and put
it in his prophets mouth or ascribe a doctrine of resurrection
of the idols to Quran 16:20-21 ( yes nukudi! ) He admits to
three pieces of your traditions as being true. None of which
contradicts the Quranic and Baha'i doctrine of Progressive
Revelation.
> Now what are the generally well known and accepted compilations: Bukhari,
> Muslim, Abu DAwud, Muwatta Malik, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Nisai. The less
> well known are Musnad Ahmad, Bayhaqi, Fayruzubadi, Ibn Hajar, Hakim,
> Al-Husayni, Ibn Khuzaymah, al-Mizzi, Muhammad, Qushayri, Suyuti and
> finally Tabarani.
Thank you for your erudition dear sir.
> By the way, pardon me therefore if I don't believe you that you are
> graduate student in Islamic Studies or took graduate courses. I highly
> doubt you have the full collection of the above compilations I mentioned
I guess you are some what un-easy on the issue! But you have
more serious difficulties with your resurrection of the idols
as elaborated in your facetious article along with Quran
7:21-35 from which you can not free yourself. With regards to
what books I have at home when you are in D.C. area you are
welcome to stop by!
> On 20 July, 1997 ks...@avery.med.Virginia.EDU (Kavian Sadeghzade Milani)
> wrote:
> >> Why don't you go to the sources for these sermons parts of which are
> >> found in various collections and find out for yourself bolboli jan.
>
> >Nukudi jan since I have done graduate work in Islam and unlike
> >yourself am familiar with Arabic and I actually have these
> >books in my library I have examined your claims and found them
> >false. I ask that the readers do the same.
> >I had previously written:
> >
>
> Aren't we stretching the truth a little now.
> >> > The same goes for the same 20 pages of hadith that nukudi etal
> >> > keep posting. I challenge nukudi to post these traditions with
> >> > a page # and section # for the benefit of the readership
> >> > henceforth!
> It is more than I can say for you bahais. Kavian as demonstarted in the
> Bahai Quran series of articles even lies about translations of the verses
> of the Quran.
nukudi! Are you for real? Do you believe that the Qur'an
seriously endorses the resurection of the idols? Go to any
mosque, speak to any of your scholars. (for those who are new
to this discussion nukudi is interpreting Quran 16:20-21 to
mean resurrection of idols; pieces of wood and clay will take
place) This is sad nukudi.
> >I thank nukudi for posting the same manufactured traditions
> >with new twists again!
> Lets see then shall we? We'll examine them. As I said you are a God send
> Kavian.
Hmmm. Indeed there is life here after all!
> >Nukudi! maybe these traditions are from "a history of bahai
> >faith" by UHJ!
> >btw, I am waiting for ISBN#, Publishing trust, Library of
> >congress # !!
>
> Go ask Webmaster. I didn't quote that book and didn't refer to it and
> don't know what you are blabbing on about.
I am sure webmaster mis-typed the name of the book.
When I asked you to provide citations for what I am saying are
manufactured and forged hadith you poison the well:
> >> Funny coming from a bahai. In ALL the hadeeths I have quoted I have
> >> quoted the source of the hadeeth. Bahais quote sayings without ANY >source
> >> whatsoever. Bahaullah in his writings didn't even give a single source
> >> for the baloney traditions he quotes.
And when I say He followed the Quran in citations you get angry:
> >Apparently you are tragically mis-informed and this confirms
> >that you have NEVER openned the Qur'an ;-)
> >God is not bound by the rules of language that you and I are
> >bound with. For example the Quran states that Jesus said:
> > An Apostle will come after me whose name is Ahmad.
> > Qur'an 61:6
But a reference is not given in the Quran. But the Quran unlike
you did not forge hadith and put it in Jesus' mouth.
> >The Quran can, nukudi jan, not give credit or give a reference,
> >but laws of reference do apply to you! Or do they?
> >
Alas! This is going no where.
> >It is noted that every suposed attack by nukudi etal meant for
> >the Baha'i Faith seems to land on the Quran.
> >The Quran can be heard:
> > They destroy their own houses with their own hands
> > and by the hands of believers! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Qur'an 59:2
> >
>
I thank nukudi for posting the whole verse, only the quoted
part is a persian axiom however. Nukudi do you know persian?
> Quran 59:2:
>
> "It is He who got out the unbelievers among the people of the Book from
> their HOMES at the first gathering (of the forces). Little did ye think
> thet they would get out. And they thought that their fortresses would
> defend them from Allah! But the (wrath of) Allah came to them from
> quarters from which they little expected (it) and cast terror into their
> hearts, so that they destroyed THEIR DWELLINGS by their own hands and the
> hands of the believers. Take warning then O ye with eyes (to see) !"
>
Here is the Quranic CHALLENGE! It seems to be saying
resistance is futile nukudi!
> > They want to extinguish the light of God by blowing.
> > But God wills to perfect his light even if the dis-
> > believers hate it! Qur'an 61:8
> >
Nukudi! keep blowing at the light of God! You have less effect
than an Asmathic blowing a candle a mile away! Fut kun! Fut kun!
>
> >Dear disputant, my friend, heed the Quran. I beg you.
> >
>
> Beg some more then.
I beg and I pray for you dear sir.
> booooooo!!!
> hehehehe
A true scholar! Stop this childish behaviour.
Un-deniable, unchangeable word of God for you nukudi.
> The Quran reveals:
> >> >
> >> > They try to deceive Godand those who believe,
> >> > yet deceive non but themselves, although they do not know.
> >> > Sick are their hearts, and God adds to their malady,
> >> > for them is a grevious suffering for they lie.
> >> > Quran 2:9-10
> >
> >
> >> > Warm Regards,
> >> > Kavian
> >>
>
>
> >Well! It would have been a nice time to move the discussion to
> >SOC.rel. bahai! But Mr. nukudi's ego is hurt!>
This is the right time to move the dialogue into the SRB(
sco.religion.bahai)
Nukudchi! I invite you to join me
But can you accept the invitation!
Dear Afshin! I will also not write on this forum unless you
have new and worthy material. Please don't re-post the same
manufactured stuff again,
Warm Regards,
Kavian
Kamran Behzadian
nikhodchi jaan-
I see you are cross posting to alt.religion.bahai. that is good because
your post only concerns religion and not any other part of the Iranian
culture. however, I would think posting this article here on
soc.culture.iranian serves no purpose but to futher divide a divided
nation.
I would think your post belongs to alt.religion.bahai and/ or
alt.religion.islam.
most Iranians I know don't give a flying fudge about another Iranis
religious beliefs. maybe it's the company I keep and the company I
avoid. what do you think?
_baba joon to ham pak shooresho dar ovordi_
nokh...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Dear readers,
>
> I sincerely apologise if you have seen this post before but I couldn't
> find it on my newsserver and so I am posting it again. My sincerest
> apologies for those readers who have seen this before.
>
> It is in continuation of Part I in this thread. I encourage you to read
> part I first as several online hadith resources are documentd there.
>
> <snip>
nokh...@hotmail.com
In article <EDop4...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
ks...@avery.med.Virginia.EDU (Kavian Sadeghzade Milani) wrote:
>
> nokh...@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > In the recent posts titled Bahai Quran parts I & II we examined the
> > verses of the Quran that Kavian quotes and have already shown him to be a
> > lier and a deceiver. Please refer to those articles posted on July 20th
> > 1997
> NUKUDI JAN! You have as I have indicated posted a score of
> traditions in support of your thesis. I merely pointed out that
> in each and every case your translators have taken liberties
> with translations such as replacing Messenger for nabi, among
> others and in some cases you introduced material that
> historically does not exist!
Bolboli jaan. The hadiths you talk about have been discussed with
references and URLs in the Articles Bahais & Islamic hadeeths Parts I and
II a day ago. They have been demonstrated to be authentic. Besides, the
word is Apostle which from my knowledge is closer to prophet (nabi) than
messenger (rasool) in your understanding. The Gospesl talk about the
Apostles of Jesus and that i because they were believed to be inspired by
the holy Ghost and prophecied about the future. Thus they were prophets
not messengers bolboli jaan. The words messenger and prophet are not used
interchangeably in the hadeeths bolboli jaan.
Such was the case for example with
> the farewell sermon of the prophet and paragraphs added that
> cannot be simple oversights IMHO. Your dislike for the Baha'i
> Faith is causing you to add material to the prophets last
> sermon. I question the sincerity of your translators; and I
> assume you didn't translate.
> Nukudi jan!
Bolboli jaan. All Islamic URLs that carry it carry it as I have. Any
bookstore that sells it as ornamentation sells it as it is in my site. So
now, you, a medical student know better about Islamic sources than all
these scholars?
This cannot be masked with myriad namecalling,
> polemical fits and bad-mouthing.
For your information. You inititated this style of argumentation by
calling me nukudi ( a not too nice persian word for the unaware) and
sentencing me to burn in hell for eternity and pronouncing me apostate
from Islam. And this coming from a bahai hehe. Now Nafeh Fananapazi
deserves more respectful replies because Nafeh has shown respect.
What you call polemical fits is what we call good argumentation that you
can't answer but simply dismiss.
Your problem is that the Quran
> emphatically and unequivocally lines up and is consistent with
> Baha'i theology and thought.
Aha, Whatever.
You may publically and vehemently
> disagree and that is your perogetive.
>
And the perogative of the knowledgeable.
> > It seems Kavian has not learned the lesson I tried in vain (apparently)
> > to teach him. Kavian you need to relax a bit buddy. Your blood pressure
> > has gone way too high. You need to learn from Nafeh Fananapazirs
> > posts.Nafeh is polite and deserves respect back. You only invite ridicule
> > back with your approach to argumentation. But hey, I guess thats you.
>
> > By the way, long time ago you said that you were a medical student. One
> > such article was:
> >
> >
> > Subject: Re: Covenant and covenant-breakers
> > From: Kavian Sadeghzade Milani <ks...@avery.med.virginia.edu>
> > Date: 1996/09/14
> > Message-Id: <51g0eu$9...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>
> > Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
>
> Curious, is it not?
> Actually ...Write me if you have time and we can talk in person.
>
Huh? I thought we are talking. You want me to fly to Virginia? ehehheh
> > Now, I don't think medical students undergo "graduate courses" in Islamic
> > Studies like you claim here. As an undergraduate you might have taken one
> > of those introductory world religions courses that many of us also took
> > but that hardly qualifies you as a "scholar".
>
> I have no claim to scholarship of any kind, but I did check out
> your sources and found them to be forged and manufactured.
> Medical doctor or not is irrevalant.
bolboli jaan. I use hundreds of verses and hadeeths in my posts and
website. I have also demonstarted the sources in the articles on
hadeeth. Others can check them too.
Funny that out of 100 arguments in a post against them, bahais delete 90
and answer the 10 easiest and then when even in that they are shown to
be hollow, they just make bad-labels and generalisations. Bolboli you
are not fooling anyone.
> > I myself am a dental student so I won't claim much more. But I have been
> > past president of a local Muslim Students Association and involved in
> > much discusion of Islam with other faiths so my knowledge is not too
> > shabby. I also spent 15 years in Kuwait so I know Arabic safe to say
> > better than you.
>
> I will not say much on this just that I am impressed with your
> achievments.
> But is tangential to our dialogue b/c you have not translated
> the works yourself. You just keep re-posting them.
>
I have provided all references.
> My haddeeths are all found in many scholars works. If
> > you wish you can refer to the article "Finality of prophetood" by Syed
> > Mududi who millions of sunni muslims considered to have been a ecent
> > reformer of Islam (mujaddid) as well as recognised as the father of the
> > Islamic movement and party of Pakistan. His tafsirs (commentary) are
> > highly sought after and greatly respected. The whole article can be found
> > in my site.
>
> I will that the most comprehensive and astute study of the
> FInality of Islam is by the late Mutahari. As an Islamic
> scholar he was honest enough to not to forge material and put
> it in his prophets mouth or ascribe a doctrine of resurrection
> of the idols to Quran 16:20-21 ( yes nukudi! ) He admits to
> three pieces of your traditions as being true. None of which
> contradicts the Quranic and Baha'i doctrine of Progressive
> Revelation.
>
Ofcourse, nothing ever contradicts bahai claims because:
1) Bahais are brain-washed and overly wishful thinkers 2) They take
anything and everything that contradicts them as metaphorical and
everything that they accept as fact. You should realise, future phoney
prophets will play the same game with bahaullah. One of them, maitreya is
already doing this and has gained a following. 3) Bahais seem to think
that God is a prankster teenger who loves playing these linguistic
gymnastic games with us. They seem to feel that the message of the Quran
is so esoteric that only "lucky few" can "get" it.
You mean he might have quoted 3 only. Other scholars report the rest and
discuss the rest. When 3 demonstrate a point why discuss more of the
same? That is the reason I reference to multiple compilations of hadeeth
bolboli jaan.
> > Now what are the generally well known and accepted compilations: Bukhari,
> > Muslim, Abu DAwud, Muwatta Malik, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Nisai. The less
> > well known are Musnad Ahmad, Bayhaqi, Fayruzubadi, Ibn Hajar, Hakim,
> > Al-Husayni, Ibn Khuzaymah, al-Mizzi, Muhammad, Qushayri, Suyuti and
> > finally Tabarani.
>
> Thank you for your erudition dear sir.
>
Your welcome.
> > By the way, pardon me therefore if I don't believe you that you are
> > graduate student in Islamic Studies or took graduate courses. I highly
> > doubt you have the full collection of the above compilations I mentioned
> I guess you are some what un-easy on the issue! But you have
> more serious difficulties with your resurrection of the idols
> as elaborated in your facetious article along with Quran
> 7:21-35 from which you can not free yourself.
Bolboli jaan. Thank you for quoting that article again. I urge readers to
read the 2 articles Bahai Quran PArts I & II. In it bolboli aka Kavian
jan's translational forgeries are exposed. The idol part was in bracker.
I said the verse refers to anything and anyone that man worshipped
including Krishna, Jesus, etc By the way Bahaullah said that inanimate
things have life too. The Quran says that the universe sings the praises
of our Lord yet we don't understand their language. Who knows, maybe
quantum physics might some day answer this. I have no opinion on this yet
and is irrelevant to the verses. The fact is in those articles you
mistranlsated the verse and manufactured your own portions. And this is
in the Quran that is so widely available. Shame on you bolboli jaan.
Bolboli jaan. If you are honest why don't you leave for the readers what
I actually said? Why is it that I am the only one here who leaves over
90% of the previous posters article intact when I reply. Why do you
bahais have such an inferiority complex and low self-esteem? or maybe is
it because you can't answer the charges? It doesn't matter. I'm not going
to do the same to you. Your replies are the best weapon I have. As I have
said. You do have a tendency to shoot yourselves in the foot.
> > >I thank nukudi for posting the same manufactured traditions
> > >with new twists again!
>
This time with a twist of truth. Novel concept for bahais I know.
ets see then shall we? We'll examine them. As I said you are a God send
> > Kavian.
>
> Hmmm. Indeed there is life here after all!
>
Amen !!
> > >Nukudi! maybe these traditions are from "a history of bahai
> > >faith" by UHJ!
> > >btw, I am waiting for ISBN#, Publishing trust, Library of
> > >congress # !!
> >
> > Go ask Webmaster. I didn't quote that book and didn't refer to it and
> > don't know what you are blabbing on about.
>
> I am sure webmaster mis-typed the name of the book.
>
> When I asked you to provide citations for what I am saying are
> manufactured and forged hadith you poison the well:
>
Bolboli jaan. Just repeating manufactured won't make them so. The
references have all been given. URLs have been given. The hadeeth have
been discussed in the two articles Bahai & Islamic hadeeths parts I & II
for the benefit of the reader.
> > >> Funny coming from a bahai. In ALL the hadeeths I have quoted I have
> > >> quoted the source of the hadeeth. Bahais quote sayings without ANY >source
> > >> whatsoever. Bahaullah in his writings didn't even give a single source
> > >> for the baloney traditions he quotes.
> And when I say He followed the Quran in citations you get angry:
>
> > >Apparently you are tragically mis-informed and this confirms
> > >that you have NEVER openned the Qur'an ;-)
> > >God is not bound by the rules of language that you and I are
> > >bound with. For example the Quran states that Jesus said:
> > > An Apostle will come after me whose name is Ahmad.
> > > Qur'an 61:6
> But a reference is not given in the Quran. But the Quran unlike
> you did not forge hadith and put it in Jesus' mouth.
>
> > >The Quran can, nukudi jan, not give credit or give a reference,
> > >but laws of reference do apply to you! Or do they?
> > >
> Alas! This is going no where.
>
Nice technique. You delted my replies in the above and left your own in
the article previous to it. Shame on you bolboli jan. You should go speak
to a therapist regarding your low self-confidence. Or maybe it is the
bahai faith that is conducive to this? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
bolboli jaan. Why are you so afraid to delete all the portions of my
reply to the above and only left your own? Now when you get to this you
leave it when it was in repsonse to an idiotic comment of yours. Kavian,
your credibility index is showing almost zero now. Maybe it is time for
you to start refueling on some integrity.
> > The Quran reveals:
> > >> >
> > >> > They try to deceive Godand those who believe,
> > >> > yet deceive non but themselves, although they do not know.
> > >> > Sick are their hearts, and God adds to their malady,
> > >> > for them is a grevious suffering for they lie.
> > >> > Quran 2:9-10
> > >
> > >
>
> > >> > Warm Regards,
> > >> > Kavian
> > >>
> >
> >
> > >Well! It would have been a nice time to move the discussion to
> > >SOC.rel. bahai! But Mr. nukudi's ego is hurt!>
>
> This is the right time to move the dialogue into the SRB(
> sco.religion.bahai)
> Nukudchi! I invite you to join me
> But can you accept the invitation!
>
bolboli jaan. Bahais have been spamming this newsgroup for years with
propaganda. Now I come along. When after several rounds they see they
can't answer it they start bad-mouthing and tuck their tails in between
their legs. Roger posts something on soc.culture.iranian and then says
"Followups set out of SCI". What do you think we are idiots here? I will
stop only when bahais stop spamming soc.culture.iranian with irrelevent
propaganda and when they do I'll stop. Now you have been discredited here
and now want the discussion moved out of soc.culture.iranian. Nice try!
You bad mouth me, throw baseless charges and want to then leave it at
that?
Besides, soc.religion.bahai is known as a den of totalitarian fascists
bahais especially those censorship-trigger-happy moderators. I have had
past replies censored and will no longer honour those censor moderators
with another article. I will post to alt.religion.bahai and if you and
all bahais agree to leave soc.culture.iranian in peace then you won't
hear from me again. Why don't you discuss this among yourselves. The more
you propagada here the more bahai dirt will be dragged here too and the
more Islamic truth will be presented. Since you have soc.religion.bahai
and alt.religion.bahai I think it in your interest to stop harassing
iranians on this newsgroup. If you choose to proapaganda here despite the
repeated wishes by the readers of this newsgroup not to, then don't
complain about me replying and exposing you. Then it is too late to ask
the discussion to be moved to another newsgroup after your own initial
propaganda pieces.
> Dear Afshin! I will also not write on this forum unless you
> have new and worthy material. Please don't re-post the same
> manufactured stuff again,
>
> Warm Regards,
> Kavian
Think about my propsal above and publicly post the collective bahai
response if you guys have any unity.